Let's Talk Ferments with Amy & Julian - Tiny Health

Thanks for making time today, Amy. I always love to chat about fermented foods. It's one of one of my passions. So, you know, quick intro. I'm Julian Traxel, I'm a senior bioinformatics scientist here at Tiny Health. Have the lovely opportunity to chat with Amy today. And Amy, please tell us about yourself.

Yeah, sure. Thanks, Julian. So I'm one of the microbiome specialists at Tiny Health, so some of you may have already had on a call or like soon to have on a call. And then in terms of a little bit about today, I'm pretty passionate about fermented foods, but in a little bit of a different way than Julian, too. So we're going to kind of cross our paths, kind of just chat about how we each got into fermented and kind of our own little tips and tricks for getting ferments into your everyday.

Right on. Thank you so much, Amy. And so I know you've got, you're putting together this is really great resource, a little ebook about ferments and all that, and I've had a nice sneak preview of it. But I was curious, how did you get into ferments in the first place? What was your, like, early experiences with fermented foods and how did you come to love them?

Yeah, great question. So I didn't grow up with them. Just as like many people that I meet with in calls, they're like, I don't know how to even use sauerkraut or like, what is niece. So I grew up on standard American diet, you know, lots of kind of processed foods. And kind of the more I kind of, you know, peeled back the layers of like, health, nutrition and kind of especially like gut health. You know, my background's in microbiology, so I under kind of, I understand the science of it. But then from the health perspective, the more I learned, the more I wanted just to kind of experiment and trial it out. And I always found in calls, there was such a big hurdle to people kind of knowing where to begin. Right. So from my own perspective, I started small. You know, yogurt, kefir, things like that. Sauerkraut was a hard one. That is actually when my babies, my kids were born. And, you know, you kind of have to make some of those changes, you know, the benefits of it. So that's actually a great time for individuals to kind of start getting curious about it too. So, you know, I still probably can't eat sauerkraut on its own. Don't really enjoy it in that way. But I've sort of learned through just being curious and bringing that in of, like, how to incorporate those. That's a great balls.

Yeah, that's a great, great point. You know, sometimes ferments on their own are a little daunting. Like, it's just so much. And it's so different. Like, how do you. What are some, like, tips for someone who, like, has never had any fermented food and they want to start trying to eat anything just even a little bit? Like, how would you approach that?

Yeah, definitely start small. You don't want to be like my dad always uses as the example. Put a quarter cup of sauerkraut in a smoothie and did not feel good digestively or. I know, I Even some individuals who, like, start and, like, go all in on ferments and they're not going to feel good right away. So starting low and slow, you know, is a great way instead of. I kind of like a little bit of a mindset shift and kind of thinking about ferments in a different way. So I kind of have four simple principles for some of the main ferments. First one being sauerkraut. A lot of people associate that with just like, you know, on top of sausages, things like that. Yeah, that's the way we kind of assume and think about it. But one of the mindset shifts there is you can replace sauerkraut in terms of everyday meals anywhere. You would have put, like a lemon, lime or vinegar.

So, like, I. Yeah, I was so shocked by all the tips you had in your book. The. The replacing acid in your smoothie with just a little bit of kraut. And I gotta admit, I tried it and it was. It was good. I, like, could not tell. It was. It was purple kraut I had put in my berry smoothie. It was, you know.

Oh, you tried one. Did you add, like a little banana? Like, did it. Did you kind of, like taste an undertone of it or. I guess. How much did you start with?

You know, I took your advice. I started. Started low, started a little bit. And so, you know, just a couple. Couple tablespoons of kraut in a big smoothie with a lot of other stuff, you know, but it was a nice little sour little. You couldn't really tell there was a bunch of crowd in there, honestly. Mm.

Yeah. And that's, you know, over time, just how I've been able to integrate it too. So, like, I. People don't even realize. I was on a hike with a friend. She's like, Wait, you can chop sauerkraut and, like, add it in? She's like, I never thought about that. Like, on its own, it's just so big. So, you know, chopping it, adding it to rice and beans, adding it at the end of a stir fry, things like that. So kind of using it, like I said, not everywhere. I still use lime and lemons. They're not, you know, kind of out the door completely. But, you know, that's one, you know, simple way with that kraut. Same thing with, like, miso anywhere. You would have put butter or parmesan for miso.

Nice. And you, you. I noticed you said something interesting there. You said when you're adding kraut added at the. The end of a stir fry, and what. What's going on there? What's that about?

Yeah, good question. So, I mean, in terms of any ferments, there's lots of different definitions of, like, is it a fermented food? Is it a probiotic? Right. Like a sourdough bread, fermented, because it's been baked. So the kind of idea is for the full benefits of some of the fermented foods, you want to try to keep minimal, like, cooking time. You don't really want to heat it. That kills the live probiotics. You know, if you have miso soup at a restaurant or sourdough bread, you're still getting the metabolite. Some of, like, those, like, postbiotics that are beneficial, but really to kind of get the maximum benefits, you don't really want to cook it. So I kind of add it at the end, or like, same thing with miso, kind of stir it in with warm water and, like, put it in at the very end. But you don't want to, like, boil it, you know, or cook it too too much or add it into your.

Cold smoothie that never sees heat at all, so.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The smoothies, you can put anything into a smoothie. So they're like, why not kra.

I love. I. I absolutely love your philosophy of, you know, substitutions. Just adding a little bit of extra sparkle. I mean, that's why I love ferments. You know, I don't eat a big handful of kraut or kimchi. It's always a little. Little accent. You put on something just for a little extra sparkle, a little bit of pop, a little something interesting and. Or. Or incorporating as, you know, an acid ingredient. I think that's a great. A great strategy. Yeah. So fantastic tips. I love them. I love them.

Yeah. Thank you. I Know, it's just like little ways to obviously like engineer your environment. Like keep the all the ferments like front and center in the fridge and kind of have it ready to go. Overall, I kind of recommend, you know, that variety to each one sort of brings a different gift. They make different metabolites as part of that process and kind of bring different benefits for the body overall. So, you know, kind of having any ferments good. But really, you know, I try to get people to have two or three different types and you could use it in the different ways. You know, one like a place of lemon or lime, then miso. I even just spread miso, like right on a sweet potato. Like it's really good.

Oh, I got to try that. Nice.

Yeah, that one. I mean, you can bake it. I had it once just like a little restaurant was like cooked. But then you lose the benefits. You're like, no. And I tell you, like, if you start kids on the flavors, young and any age, when I talk about ferments, sometimes it's really like, yeah, we talk about kids, but for adults too. You know, I brought that to my kid's birthday party or that a rock climbing party and like a whole tray of like the miso on the sweet potato gone. And that umami flavor is just so good on something like that. So like I said, it doesn't have to be fancy recipes. Just spread it on salmon, spread it on, you know, the sweet spread on toast. That's how the Japanese use it sometimes.

Nice. Can I ask you. So I know there's a couple different kinds of miso. Is this like a light miso you would recommend for this or like a darker one? Give a. Yeah.

Starting off slow. I'm onto the red misos. I have like my miso lady and she gives me like her really long four year fermented. But basically starting with the light. Like mellow is kind of an easier introduction. Basically it gets darker the darker you go, the longer it's been fermented and then the kind of stronger the flavor too.

Oh, right on. Yeah. So whatever your tolerance is, use, you know, use the darker miso if you like it funky and use the lighter stuff if you. You're just getting into it.

Exactly.

Nice. Another great substitution that I loved from your ebook was the recommendation for kombucha. You know, if you're trying to maybe drink a little bit less this summer, a kombucha can be a great swap out or a substitute for that cocktail. You might want to have. Just have a glass of kombucha and it, you know, it's really satisfying, really quenching, really sour. And it's has that kind of interesting, I don't know, zip that. That you might be looking for.

Yeah, I think in terms of like gut health too, I, I love kind of going out and you know, other people like, you know, like in moderation, like, you know, alcohol can be one of those things that people can enjoy. But when trying to make the swaps for, you know, overall gut health is fun to have something when you're out. Like part of that social side of it is like, you know, opening a can or kind of having something cold and fun, refreshing. So I love that bringing kombuch out. And then not only am I kind of like making a healthier swap, I'm getting double the benefit because you're getting like those cultures in it too. So it's kind of fun in terms of some of those other kind of swaps either for like kids. I don't start kids too, too young on something like the kombuchas because of the sugars, but you know, like swapping out a bubbly water, you know, for a soda or swapping out like kombucha, you know, for like alcohol. Even some of the fun like summer drinks, you know, in terms of like the pina coladas or things like that, you can just like do the same thing, but via like kefir is like another one of my favorites for colada.

That's a great idea.

Well, they don't go. If you can't let it sit out too, too long, you can get like the coconut milk kefir. I kind of realized that the hard way with like the milk kefir and coconut, it kind of like the ends, I just break it down too much. But I do like, you know, if you can get like coconut kefir, so, you know, just bringing that curiosity to it. I ask users to kind of give feedback and like thoughts to me. And this one four year old submitted her favorite mushroom recipe for miso mushrooms.

Oh, nice.

Yeah, like a little bit of butter, a little bit of miso kind of out in the end. And it goes to show you, you know, just kind of like trialing different things, bringing that curiosity and then, you know, kind of, you never know what you're going to enjoy.

Yeah, I love that, that, that curiosity and just exploring, you know, you don't have to just accept fermented food as it is. You can make it your own, you know, you can tweak it, adjust It. So one of my favorite examples, I have a friend who, she loves to make her own kombucha. And it's really good. She makes it quite strong, and it's still pretty sweet. And it's too. A little too sweet for me. So whenever she shares it, I'll either cut it with a little bit of, you know, it's just sparkling water to like, dilute it a little bit, maybe a little fruit juice if that's available. But, you know, you can do so many things to. To make your fermentation experience your own and much more enjoyable.

Yeah, that sounds nice too. Yeah, I love kind of diluting things with some of like the bubblies, things like that, just to kind of, you know, enjoy it. So it sounds like you ferment a lot, huh?

I. I do. So, you know, I'm a. I'm a microbiologist by, by training. And so I'm. I'm super fascinated by the way microbes can transform things. And it's just kind of a magical transformation. You take, you know, some mundane vegetables, add some bacteria and time in an anaerobic environment, and it becomes this. This magical. Whole different thing. And so that. That's fascinating to me. And I. I do. I'm a in fermentation enthusiast, so I. I do lots of home ferments. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. This is a little bit of a why we. We were brought together, because I know the hows in terms of, like, integrating it. But to be honest, and I do confess this, I don't really ferment. The kind of closest I've gotten is making dosas, which is, you know, just the rice and lentils just soaked, you know, the batter. It's become a bit of a tradition in my house, and I find, like, once you start one thing and kind of have it, you're good. But I've been really kind of scared or kind of using the excuse of it being like it's too hard or I'm gonna mess it up.

Yeah.

You know, so I'd really love any tips because it's not something that's. Not that I don't want to. It's just. I don't know where to start.

Yeah. So, I mean, that's. I, you know, super common with my friends and who I constantly try to get to ferment things, but it can be daunting. It does seem a little hairy, but it can be super simple. One kind of recipe that I. I think is like the gateway. And it's just the one I recommend people start with it's. It's kind of a spicy carrot ribbon. And so it's just that it's carrots, a Fresno pepper, or, you know, if it's too spicy, maybe a jalapeno and salt. Those are the. All the ingredients. And so, you know, just really briefly, it's. You take a vegetable peeler, and you make ribbons out of your carrot, and, you know, however big you want them. Just, you know, lots of surface area. That's. That's the key. And then you, you know, chop your Fresno up really fine, and you weigh all that mass, whatever the carrot is. In Fresno, you do need a kitchen scale if you're going to ferment. That's. That's one of my tips. Okay.

Non negotiables.

Well, you know, you could get around, but it makes it so much easier. So carrots and Fresno, and you weigh that, and then you add 2% of that weight in salt, and then you mix it all together. This is another one of my favorite parts about fermenting is getting handsy and, like, mashing everything up and, you know, getting a little messy.

And then the kids could do it, too.

Oh, absolutely.

Kind of getting them all in.

That's a fantastic point. I love to make a group activity out of it. So I'll tell you about my kimchi after I finish this one. So then you take your carrots and your Fresno and. And your salt that's all mixed up, and you pack it into a mason jar as tight as you can, and then you put a lid on it. You put it somewhere on your counter and let it go. And you should start to see some. Some bubbles and activity after the first 24 hours. By three days, it should be really going. And then however strongly fermented you like it, you could, you know, keep going up to a week or just put it in the fridge right then. And what you should appreciate is the carrots will have, like, you know, softened up a little bit, but then there will be a nice twang of the lactic acid that's been produced. And then you'll get the. You know, it also enhances kind of the. The savory aspect of vegetables, I find.

Okay, that sounds fun.

It's just. It's fantastic. And so that's, you know, three ingredients in a mason jar, and you're good. Good to go.

Okay, so now I'm gonna be a little like, how do I not get sick? Like, I'm worried about, like, bad bacteria. You know what I curious. When I started making doses, the batter would really smell. And I was just like reading tips and like just stir it, it's fine. You know, and then it was fine. But I was nervous. Like that's my kind of unknown. As someone who I kind of don't like to follow instructions on recipes so much. That's been my like hesitation with trying. But I guess what would be your tips there and just like how to keep it too?

Well, I would like to point out that lactic acid fermentation, which is, you know, what we're talking about here is an ancient technology. It's been around as long as humans have been and has been one of the go to food preservation techniques that we have a species have relied on. It's time tested and you know, people always worry about oh, botulism. But so that is only a problem in canned goods where all the other beneficial bacteria have been killed. And you know, botulism spores are the only thing that's left in a healthy, you know, carrot you just pulled out of your fridge. There's lots and lots of beneficial bacteria, lactic acid bacteria, you know, all kinds of good stuff. Those good guys will out compete anything that might do you harm. And their strategy is fermentation. It is turning sugars into acids which lowers the phone, which keeps things safe. And as long as the ph is, is low enough, nothing bad will will grow in those conditions.

Okay, that makes, I think that's a better like distinction in my head because I always thought, okay, in terms of like the canned goods, things like that, because if it's going to be shelf stable, then it needs to kind of be super clean. But you're kind of just letting it ferment and then keeping it in the fridge.

Yep. And so again this, this type of fermentation that I just described, you know, I would, I would pop it in the fridge and it can stay in the fridge for you know, a couple weeks even. But it's definite a, a, you know, a, a shelf stable at room temp kind of thing. It would eventually get a little fuzzy. So.

But yeah, okay, that sounds good. So yeah, good for a couple weeks. And then you know, in terms of people who like don't really like chilies or kind of. I work with a lot of like kids and families who kind of want an entry level. Is there a swap for some of the chilies or can you just keep them out?

Yeah, absolutely there is. You know, if you, you could actually just omit them entirely. Just carrots and salt on their own will make a lovely ferment if you Want a little pop, A little something else in there? Some. Some coriander is really nice. You just, you know, roughly crush some coriander seeds and throw them in there. That's. That's a lovely addition. You know, dill is a fantastic addition to ferments like that. Yeah. So anything that might add a little excitement or pop. I personally like the chilies, but I understand it's not for everybody.

Yeah, you never know. I have some kids who really, really young just love the kimchi as well, too. So I think we're definitely going to send around, like, a recipe, because I know I want to get started and just try because it's one of those things, once you start something and do it once, then it kind of sticks.

Yes.

I have a coach myself. It's like just trying it and then just seeing what sticks in terms of, like, you know, ease and it could be something and bringing that curiosity factor that, you know, you guys, anyone could enjoy, too, once they kind of try it, you know, once.

Absolutely. My. My dad always used to say, everything's hard until you've done it once, and then it's easy.

Yep. Yeah. You mentioned about kimchi as well. I know my friend growing up, the older brother and I was like, would always ferment this cabbage. And I was like, I had. We had no idea. That was a far world away when I was, like, 10. But I remember kind of like that big jar of it, and you would put different. Sometimes chili, sometimes without. Is that something you ferment a lot, too?

Yes. Kimchi was one of my true gateway ferments into fermented vegetables. So, you know, I tried it at, you know, Korean restaurants or what have you, and it was always good. It's a little. Little pop and spice. I was already into fermenting a little bit then. But what I. What I really love about kimchi is we used to turn it into a kind of a. A group event where a bunch of my friends would come over. So we go to the farmer's market. I think early summer, late spring, early summer is a beautiful time to make kimchi. All the napa cabbage is at the farmer's market. You know, carrots and radishes. Everything's there. Turnips, even. So what we do is we go to the farmer's market, grab a bunch of napa cabbage, some radishes, carrots, whatever else looked good. And we come back and have a little, you know, peeling and processing party, like breaking everything down. And then, you know, we'd. All. Kimchi is Interesting, because you can do it so many different ways. And I won't, I won't dare try to, you know, say this is how you make kimchi, because it's, you know, but we, the way we like to do it is, you know, all those veggies I mentioned, and then a couple pears and apples mixed in with some gochugaru, which is a, A red, red Korean chili. Then you make a paste out of that, and then you kind of massage everything together. And if you, if you have enough people, it's, you know, many hands make light work, and everyone then leaves with a, with a jar of their own kimchi at the end.

Oh, nice. I love that idea too. It kind of takes like the, I mean, it brings that community aspect, you know, that's good in terms of sharing food and kind of making it together. And then you kind of go, you know, home with it. And you're also kind of like teaching them in a way is, you know, too.

Absolutely. And then you all can, like on the group thread, text each other. How's your kimchi doing? Mine. Mine started to bubble out the top. Is that normal? Like. Oh, yeah, that's. That's a good sign. That means it's live.

That's good. So you can all kind of be accountability partners for each other in terms of knowing how to support it.

Yep. A kimchi support group, you know, so wonderful.

Yep. I know. I. Kimchi I love experimenting with too, because it's one of those. I've always had it in like ramens and soups. I really love it. And with Brussels sprouts is probably like my favorite way. And I've actually seen it with the pear in it too, so those kind of trios together. You mentioned the pear. That sounds really good.

Oh, yeah. Is your Brussels kimchi recipe in the, in the, the book you're working on?

Yeah, I put that. Yeah. These are all just a collection of my tried and true favorites. One of my local fermenters too. They put it in like kids Mac and cheese because it's anywhere you would have put like a chili, like a half hatch chili Mac and cheese or things like that. I think about using kimchi instead, you know, because you can use out and kind of swap out anything you would have done. So I haven't tried that with my kids. I do a lot of like miso Mac and cheese with my kids, but that's like next on the list to, you know, try. Do you have any other favorite ways you like to use your kimchi?

I Have a shameful confession about my kimchi.

Okay.

So I sometimes, every once in a while, I. I really enjoy those frozen cardboard pizzas. Not. Not very healthy for you. But one of my favorite things is to cook one of those pizzas and put a big chunk of kimchi on top of it, and it's just, oh, my gosh, it's nice.

I know.

I was saying calls. There's no bad food. There's like, you know, it's all about the balance. And, hey, what a better way to kind of boost a food like a pizza, which we, you know, should all be able to enjoy from time to time. My kids, oddly, they're like, tell everyone they like dipping their smoked salmon juices. They don't really like eating the cabbage, but they like the juices and maybe rolling up a little bit of kimchi and some smoked salmon. So, you know, there's so many different ways. And that's why I like that curiosity factor and kind of sharing, like, different ways to use it, too.

I'm so glad you brought up fermentation juices. So another one of my favorite ferments is fermented hot sauce. And so I am an avid gardener as well. I grow lots of peppers in my garden. And sometimes you have way too many to just cook and eat, and so you process them all into hot sauce. And so that is just, you know, chopping them up really fine, mixing them with 2% salt, letting them ferment. And then after the fermentation, you're left with, you know, this. This beautiful slurry of peppers. If you strain that juice off, that's a beautiful hot sauce just. Just that you can blend it with a little bit of the peppers and to thicken it if you'd like. Or you can just have a really thin hot sauce just with that. That fermentation juice. And it's so good. It's. There's nothing like it. Yeah.

And it's like, if you're gonna have hot sauce anyways, may as well be fermented. I know I kind of leave that one to my local fermenter. They make really good, like, hot sauces and salsas that are already fermented. I know one of the things we'll be sharing, too, because Elisa Song, our chief medical officer in her book, wrote all these other ideas as well as well, of, like, you know, ferment your barbecue sauce. You can do that naturally make fermented fruit. And I think one of the ones we're going to include is, like, a BlackBerry lemonade. So in the summer, like, who doesn't love lemonade?

Right?

Maybe we'll ferment it. So there's kind of different. Each kind of us kind of have our own approaches of like, let's start small with like fermenting, you know, my kind of one is like, you know, turbo boosting meals with things that are already available and then like just simply you know, adding some like probiotic strains to like everyday foods too. So there's kind of a lot of different ways to, you know, integrate it in. In a pretty easeful way.

Right on. That's fermented lemonade. That, that sounds so good.

BlackBerry lemonade. Not just any. It's like already, you know, kind of exciting just to think about that extra flavor in it. So. Yeah. So I think that's something, you know, we'll send along as well.

Excellent. I'm looking forward to that. That's gonna be so good.

Yeah. Excellent.

Yeah.

Any other kind of thoughts or things you'd want to share for people? If you were gonna say, like one take home message. People who are like always want to try fermenting but like, don't, you know, quite know, like order. Is it like worth, you know, it versus like a store bought. What's the difference for you?

I think it's absolutely worth it because you get to, you know, witness the whole journey of your food from just a regular vegetable being transformed. You can look at the. You see the bubbles evolving off of it. Notice that the smell is changing. Just the process of, you know, tasting it before and then after the ferment is really rewarding for me. One little word of caution. You know, fermentation is an anaerobic process, meaning you want to keep oxygen away from it as much as possible. I have been guilty of checking on my ferments far too often. So when you open them up and look at them, you're letting air in. And so you want to, you know, keep your curiosity under control a little bit if you can. You'll have better success that way.

Okay, so maybe I know for me, because I know it's like dark spaces too. So like when I put my dose, I kind of COVID it and like put it in a cabinet and then I'm not as tempted to like check on it too. Gotta put the timer on.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, good, good. Yeah, thanks for that.

Well, I really hope you decide to take the plunge and start doing some ferments yourself. You know, I'll try and share a video of how I make the spicy fermented carrot ribbons. Maybe that will be some inspiration for you to get going.

Yeah, for me, I'm a visual person. If I see it, like if there's a cookbook and there's no pictures, there's no way I'm cooking that too. So if I see a video and see it broken down, that kind of breaks down any of those barriers too. So, yeah, I'll definitely love to see it. All right, well, yeah, I think that's it for us today. So pretty much take home is, you know, kind of tying it back too, is like, you know, get curious about some of the ferments, you know, start low and slow. That's my takeaway. Fermentation doesn't have to be that hard, you know, can just be really simple. So starting with like Julian's, you know, carrot recipe. And then just one thing to tie back in is, you know, why we're all here. Forgotten health. Right. So in terms of all the different benefits, I mean, delve into too much for this one. But you know, there's a whole long list in terms of just diversifying the microbiome, you know, helping digestion. And we start babies on that sauerkraut just to kind of kick start their digestion. Each one, you know, gives a different kind of, you know, nutrient boost. There's a lot of nutrients as part of that fermentation can help with metabolic health, immune system functioning. So list is long. Right. A lot of cultures have used it for centuries and I think as part of our culture here, we don't really have the regular instead of yogurt. So I think it's like we kind of need to engineer our environment to make it more regular, kind of make it more habitual for that, you know, overall health and wellness.

Well, Amy, it's been such a joy chatting with you and I hope we get to do it again very soon.

Yeah, definitely. Sounds great. Thanks Julian. Have a good one.

You as well. We are going to make some fermented carrot ribbons, carrots, maybe some, some peps if you like. A little spicy. You don't have to add these. And it's very simple. Just gonna ribbonize this carrot, chop up some peps, mix it with 2% salt and let it go. I don't necessarily peel my carrot, I just rinse it. You don't have to worry about, you know, scrubbing it or sterilizing. There we go. So we're gonna weigh everything and then add 2%, two and a half percent salt by weight. And we've got 285 grams total weight. Right now. So we're gonna add about 7 grams of salt to this, A little extra just for, just for good luck. And now just kind of mix it all together, make sure everything gets nice and coated in salt. And then we're going to pack it into this mason jar. That's pretty good. Got a clean mason jar, standard wide mouth. You can use pretty much any kind. There are all kinds of fancy lids and stuff you can use. But for a nice short ferment like this, it's not super necessary. I'm just gonna jam everything down in there. All right. So key is we want everything kind of submerged under some liquid so the carrots and peppers will give off a decent amount just by jamming them down in there. But what I may do is just top this off with a little bit of water just to keep everything submerged nicely. Pretty good. See all the liquid we got already, they will out juice more liquid as they sit. But I'm gonna add just a little bit of water on top. So if you want the best chance of success with nothing growing on top of your ferment, it's best to keep everything totally submerged in the liquid. Since we have a decent amount of headspace, not a lot of liquid here. Something I like to do is to use a second smaller mason jar to help keep things submerged. So this just goes in there like that and top goes on. And everything's nice and submerged there. But you don't want to tighten it too tight because you still want gas to get out. And this will, this will leak liquid. So you're going to want to put it in a dish or something. I've got this little ceramic bowl just. There we go. I'm just going to leave it right on my countertop just there. Looks pretty good. Just pop this in the fridge, eat it as you'd like.

Here is the fermented BlackBerry lemonade recipe created by Dr. Elisa Song, Tiny Health's chief medical officer. You'll start by placing a half a cup of organic blackberries or berries of your Choice in a 32 ounces or 1 quart wide mouth glass Mason jar. Next you'll add 1 tablespoon of sugar. Then my kids favorite part was using the back of a wooden spoon to gently muddle the blackberries until they release their juice. The recipe calls for 1/2 to 1 cup of fresh lemon juice from 2 to 4 large organic lemons. And from our experience, the half a cup was is plenty. Next you'll pour in your lemon juice and then you'll dissolve a probiotic capsule into 1 to 2 tablespoons of filtered water and add that to your jar. Add 2 cups of filtered water and cover with a Mason jar lid. You'll leave this in the cabinet for two to four days to ferment. You might want to taste test it two days in to see if it's reached your desired level of tanginess. Once it's all finished fermenting, serve over ice and enjoy and store leftovers in the fridge.