Per Diem Webinar: How Starbucks Achieved 30 Million App Users - Strategies for Coffee Shops

Hey everyone. Welcome to our weekly webinar at Per Diem. Today we're going to be talking about what makes the Starbucks app so great. I'm Tomer Malovinsky, CEO and co founder of Per Diem and today is August 14th. So let's hop right into the webinar. In terms of the agenda, we'll just go through, you know, the, the classic Starbucks order ahead, the user experience, how you can customize your orders, their loyalty program, push notifications, paying and the like. I think taking a step back first, I also want to mention that the Starbucks app very much influenced what we're doing at Per Diem. It's in a lot of our marketing and we've talked about it a lot. In fact, our vision when we started was, hey, there's the Starbucks app out there. And it seems like most coffee shops, if they have an app, or restaurants, quick serve restaurants and the like, if they have an app, it's probably not that great. It's certainly not the Starbucks app. So why don't we Per Diem build the equivalent of the Starbucks app as a service the same way that Square builds Square online for websites and what have you. And we just realized nobody was doing it really well. And if you wanted to do it really well, you needed to be Starbucks and be a giant organization with gajillions of dollars or you'd have to pay someone gajillions of dollars to build it for you. And neither of those options were really available for most coffee shops. So that was really what led us on this path. And so for us personally, for me personally, you know, even though I don't go to Starbucks a ton, the app itself is a great experience. I've worked with Starbucks designers before. They're really talented. And so. Yeah, so let's dive right in. So a little bit of an overview. I think there are versions of the Starbucks app before 2016, but they were like really like early. But as you can see, every year, despite the fact that Starbucks now has like 15,000 stores, the penetration of mobile app transactions as a total percentage or as a percentage of their total transactions is now above 30%, which is pretty huge. You can see the pandemic, during the pandemic that really spiked and then after that that kind of normalized. And this is big for every coffee shop out there because that means that behavior, you know, if, if Starbucks today has tens of millions of people that have their app and 10 million active users, then that behavior is now normalized amongst, amongst many Americans and all across the world. And so there's a lighter adoption curve for, for people that download your app because the likelihood is they've probably experienced that same type of app, whether it's through Starbucks or a gajillion of the other copycat Starbucks apps that are out there. So nonetheless, you can see it took Starbucks about six, seven years to get to that 25% threshold. And a global pandemic. What we see, and granted most of our stores don't have 15,000 locations, but what we see is that number, the 25% threshold oftentimes comes within six months of launching the app. So if you think what took Starbucks seven years now with per diem, you can do that in essentially six or seven months. So let's jump right in. You know the key value prop for the Starbucks app, what they say in the app store, order, pay and earn stars. So we'll talk about the ordering part, the payment part and obviously their loyalty program. So order ahead. Here you can see like the classic app, nice visuals. That's one thing that we mention a lot with per diem is make sure that your, you know, visuals of your coffee look really nice. The ones I've seen have like a mug of and they'll have like a logo of the brand on the mug with like, you know, a nice looking latte, cappuccino, what have you, really vivid like backgrounds. For instance, if you take it on a nice table or with a nice backdrop, if you're in a beautiful setting, then those always help. Or just a nice table with kind of like some nice color in the background. Ideally you have a professional photographer, but if not, then you know, you can use AI these days to generate really high quality images and there's a ton of like stock imagery out there that look at the end of the day, cappuccino is a cappuccino, but you still want to make sure that that looks good. So I try to avoid like the ones that look like a little bit too much like stock imagery. Invest in your imagery, it'll help you sell more. And so nonetheless, but order ahead, you can see 10 million active users in the Starbucks app. And yeah, it just works. The order tracking component is really important in this and so knowing exactly when your order is going to be ready because let's be real, most people are ordering coffee, coffee to. You're on the way to the office, you're going to the subway, you're in your car, driving through a drive thru, whatever it is, but you're usually en route to somewhere else, right? And so knowing when that order is going to be ready, hey, you can perfectly plan that. You know exactly what to do, when to leave your apartment, all that stuff. In per diem, in addition to this tracker in the app, we also send you push notifications. So in square, when you update the status of the order, we'll send a push notification that'll help let people know, hey, we're working on your order, your order is ready, so forth and so on. So this is huge and, and a big part of just like setting the right expectations for your guests and meeting those expectations. Overall, the Starbucks app design is, and just a clean ux. Like hey, you tap a button, it's like you're not hitting dead ends. And that's really the issue with a lot of the white label apps out there that we've seen. Onboarding new users, like every like new registrations is a nightmare. It's like email password, Social Security number. I don't know what they want from us. We've made it really simple in per diem, even a lot simpler than Starbucks, to be honest. Starbucks still requires email and password. The likelihood is they could do sms. I'd assume they just really want your email address and so therefore they're asked for email and password. Not to mention it's a little bit cheaper. But you can see that although they have that the app is so good from a UX and design perspective, outside of that, that their retention rate is still 44% which is super high in the industry where 25% is even really good. So keep in mind that's, you know, almost half their, their, their users come back, which is a, which is a really nice metric. So customization, that's obviously a huge part of the Starbucks app. I'm sure you've heard of all these like TikToks where people are like, oh my God, look at this custom app with 18 modifiers and stuff like that. So, but yeah, it's a huge part of the app, personalizing your drink, you know, what you like, oat milk versus natural sugar, no sugar, whatever. That's huge. And so to do this, you know, using modifiers. So for instance, and you know this is famous in Starbucks, but we've also added this in per diem. So with all your modifiers that you have set up in square, they automatically come over to per diem, whether they're required modifiers or optional modifiers. And so you can let, just the same way that Starbucks does, you can let all your, all your customers just modify their order and that's it. You can see here 60% of Starbucks app orders are customized. And then, you know, once you are customizing your order, that oatmeal cost us 75 cents extra. You know, this costs a little bit, you know, whatever it is, those customized drinks typically cost 20 to 30% more. So obviously your AOV is going up and that's half the battle. I think. I think in general, your AOV is going to go up in the app just because, again, that's why you want like very visual images. It's just when people are at the counter, maybe they're a little bit gun shy, they're a little nervous, but when they're at in the app, they have enough time and AOV tends to go up. This, I think, is one of the key elements, though. Once you've saved your double, you know, latte foam, you know, menthol, whatever you do, just being able to reorder that same drink with a tap of the button and not having to add all those modifiers again and all that stuff. So that's a huge part of the app. We do the same thing in per diem. So we'll save the modifiers based on your last order. In fact, if you've marked the modifier out that was in the order in square, then we'll let them know, hey, sorry, this modifier is actually not available right now. For instance, oat milk, you're out of oat milk. And so we'll let them know that. But nonetheless, you know, most orders, hey, I want my matcha latte. Da da da, oat milk with a little bit of sugar. One tap, you're in the checkout screen, you check out, you're good to go. It shouldn't take more than 15 seconds. Terms of loyalty. So this is obviously has made Starbucks huge. So there's two components to Starbucks loyalty. There's the points and the rewards and everything that has to do with that. And then there's the, like the store credit, what we call in per diem, which is basically where you load your Starbucks, you like prepay, and you get Starbucks credit. And then once you do that, you actually get more points for purchases. And so we've replicated a lot of this same strategy within per diem itself, preloading credit. So this is a big one. This is actually really interesting because we noted, and as we were doing research for this webinar, Starbucks does enable Apple Pay. I've said it many times before on this webinar and in other places, Apple Pay is. It's the key to UX in, in modern mobile apps, Apple Pay is basically how you just streamline the entire person process so all the way from when somebody onboards into your app using SMS or logging in. And then they can easily check out with Apple Pay. Interestingly, Starbucks does not allow Apple Pay when you're checking out on the final screen. Where they do enable Apple Pay is to load up and to preload store credit. So you can see here, I'm sure you guys have heard this, Starbucks is over 1.4 billion in prepaid balances from digital. They're like the 20 big, biggest, 20th biggest bank in the country or something, something crazy like that, just based on this, just based on these deposits. And so one way they've done that is beyond just incentivizing you for getting double double points is they actually make the process easier. So again, I'm check if I just downloaded the Starbucks app right now and I just, I just want an Americano and check out and go, well, actually I got to enter my credit card, whereas if I just, if I add the credit, I can just do that quickly with Apple Pay and then check out with that. And so now it's a little bit stickier because when I typically add some store credit, I'll add $20 in store credit. Okay, now I buy that Americano, I still have $15 left in the app and so I'm going to use it again and I'm going to make more purchases. So you could see where the strategy comes in here. It is just interesting that they only use Apple Pay to let you load credit. Obviously in per diem we use Apple Pay on checkout as well. And that's why our, our conversion rates on checkout are extremely high. And so that's something that we've seen be a huge benefit. But we can see and understand why Starbucks does it this way. Cool. So I, I think everyone's seen this. If you have the Starbucks app, and we've very much emulated this in per diem as well, where basically one of the first things after you log into the app, one of the first things that you will see are your points and then you'll see where you are and you'll track how much further until you get your next reward. So that kind of Starbucks made that famous. And then obviously Starbucks does a lot of gamification and stuff like that. And so they'll do a lot of like, they'll do Happy Hours where they'll give double points. Obviously we mentioned the store credit. You get double Points when you pay with store credit, and so all kinds of stuff like that. So nonetheless, this is like a core feature. We've again, very much replicated this same type of structure in the Per Diem app. If you're a part of Square Loyalty, if you're not a part of Square Loyalty, then what we'll show on the homepage is, is just the store credit component. And there won't be necessarily the points component. But if you are in Square Loyalty, then automatically when people sign up for Per diem, once they're in the app, they log in with their phone number, they're going to see their points pop up right there and then on the next slide they can redeem those points. So obviously that's a huge part of it. I'm going to collect all these points and then I can redeem those points for whatever it is in Square Loyalty. You can set that up, you can set up tiers. And so, hey, at 10 points I get a medium coffee. At 15 points, I get a croissant. So you can set that up the way you want to. But as you see here, Starbucks, they, a big part of their app is incentivizing people to preload their Starbucks card. And again, we let you do that in a slightly different way. Within Per Diem, basically you can set up where people can add. Our default is like, pay $45, get $50 in store credit. And so then it's basically like you're, you're prepaying for a punch card, you're getting that free coffee up front. And so that's one way to do it. But then obviously, if you are doing Square loyalty, then as people, each purchase that people make, they're going to get points the same way you have it set up in Square Loyalty. And then you can see here, customers who redeem points are likely to spend 20, 30% more after redeeming their rewards. So that's just, you know, obviously you just got something. It's kind of like a very gratuitous cycle. Push notification. So this is a huge part of every app and a really key customer communication tool. I think we've said it a few times here, push notifications, they have 7x the open rates as, as emails. You know, if you think about it, if you get push notifications on your phone, they're right there on the home screen. The best thing is your brand's right there. And then the other best thing is one tap and you're in the app. So like an email, I gotta click, I gotta Go, I gotta do this, I gotta do that push notification. It's really one tap. There's no logging in anywhere, nothing like that. And that's where the whole package really comes through. So I get a push notification whether it is some sort of order status or whether it is a promotion. And then I can just one tap. That's where like the easy reorder, that's where checking out with Apple Pay or your store credit really comes in. It's really the whole process of that. But can you imagine like if you got a push notification and then you had to log into the app? That would be kind of annoying, right? But that's one of the bigger benefits of mobile apps is that you don't have to do that. And so let's jump right in and talk about what Starbucks does. Well, I mentioned happy hour. I'll see Starbucks do happy hour deals and like I said, they'll give double points. You know, usually I don't think Starbucks does many, many like coupons or anything like that. But within per diem, you know, you can do this type of promo. You can send out a promo code to people. You can have that expire, you know, whenever you want. Usually I'll typically recommend to people to use like time limited offers. So hey, you know, get $2 off today only. Da da da. Keep in mind an app is very like in the moment, unlike websites where people, maybe you're using a website to like order ahead or I don't know, do things longer term, maybe book travel on a website. But an app is very much like I want this right now, right here. And so you know, if you are doing an offer, I, I would probably shy away from like hey, get this all week and do something that's just like on the daily. That's because people just forget unless you remind them. You can remind people if you are doing like a weekly offer. But hey you can in per diem you can set up a coupon every day and just have it expire. And so I would, I would do them on the like more daily expirations, but that's totally up to you. The other thing you can do, and I've mentioned this on previous webinars, is within square. You can either configure your loyalty points or you can configure discounts at certain times of day. So for instance, you want to do double points, which Starbucks does a lot on a slow day. So let's say today's Wednesday afternoon. Let's say today is like your slow one of Your slower days, you can set that up within square itself. You just say, hey, give double points, give buy one, get one free, whatever it is. You can set up a category, you can set up certain items that you want that for and then that'll all be respected in the app. So that's just something that you'll be able to do. On the per diem side, seasonal menu items. So in terms of push, we see our stores, they'll send out all the time, seasonal drinks, new menu items. This is really a great opportunity to get in touch with your best customers. And, and I think Starbucks has made the pumpkin spice latte, you know, another one thing that they've done really just brilliantly, I think it's their top selling drink during that party year. 43% of Starbucks customers have purchased the seasonal drink. And so all you got to do, hey, push notifications, send it out. We're offering this. You can also do within per diem, you can do like a banner on the homepage. So like there's two types of banners. There's a one time banner that's like a full page, kind of like when you log into Spotify and they put a banner, hey, check out this album. You can set up the same thing and you can even schedule that. So let's say you do every Wednesday afternoon you're doing double points. You can schedule that pop up banner to appear in per diem on when people log in every Wednesday and you can say hey, get double points today, you know, or you know, whatever it is. But you can also use that banner to promote seasonal items. And you can add an image, you can even add a video these days if you want to. Within per diem. The other thing you can do is on the sticky banner, which is the smaller banner which stays on the screen, doesn't appear just once. You can also put an image in there. So that's another place to promote a new item. And that works really well too. Personalized offers. So the degree to personalization you can see here, members who engage with Starbucks personalized offers are five times more likely to visit per month. Personalization is key these days. People just like it. We've set up in per diem you can send out birthday push notifications which are personalized by name. So that's something you could say, hey Johnny, Happy birthday. They enter obviously their birthday in the app and then they're going to get a promo code that you would set up in per diem. So that's one way to really personalize things. We also show you in the dashboard in per diem, your best customers for the past week, for the past month. You get that info in square too. You know, you can do things as well where you can even set up like a custom marketing group in square under your email marketing with like your best customers, you know that, your best app customers and you can just keep on adding people into there and then maybe you send those people like an extra special personalized offer like hey, thanks for being one of our best customers today. Or you know, this last month, here's a $2 coupon just for you, you know, and you can have that, you know, if you're doing it for 10 people, maybe that's something where you can even send individual push notifications from per diem itself. So that's something you can do within per diem. You can go to an individual customer and send that individual person a push notification. So think of like you're, you're a regular at a coffee shop and all of a sudden you get, you know, a promo code with your name or something on it that's like, hey Tomer, you know, here's two bucks if you want to come in today. How cool is that? Thanks for being a great customer. So that just, you know, those are things that it's not just in the moment that they convert, but that really builds over time that loyalty that customers are going to have to your store. So what's the app missing? Obviously the Starbucks app has a lot of, it's got a lot going for it. They know what they're doing, but it is missing a few things. And so we'll call them out here and just show where or potentially things that you can do that Starbucks doesn't have. So Apple pay on checkout. I mentioned it before, if you want to just easily check out in the Starbucks app, you got to enter your 16 digit credit card and do all that stuff. And they're clearly trying to deter you from checking out easily without adding store credit. So while that's a sneaky move and it works really well for them and obviously at scale that impact is huge because you know, if they have 10 million members, then think about all those people that are adding the store credit. But what we've seen is we want, you know, we want that conversion to be as high as possible in the app. Whereas people, the second they're in, they tap the item, they're out. Adding a credit card on checkout is going to kill conversion. Not all the way, but I've seen it happen before. Apple Pay is just such. And Google, Google Pay, if it's an Android app, it's just such a benefit. It's also a benefit for you as an operator because we even have a setup in the settings section of per diem where you can do Apple Pay only and not enable credit cards. And that would basically, if you are in an area that has fraud then that would basically eliminate all fraud. Because the brilliant thing that Apple Pay does is it does two factor authentication when you add your credit card into Apple Pay. So there's essentially zero chance of fraud. Whereas a lot of the fraud that does happen out there, it's people that have a stack of stolen credit cards and they're just going through and adding credit cards and then obviously that leads to chargeback stuff like that. Square does have fraud monitoring systems. We sit on top of that fraud monitoring system at per diem. So we'll automatically reject orders that have a high fraud chance. But nonetheless, if you want to eliminate, if it is a problem for you, I don't necessarily recommend it, then you can go Apple Pay only. And what we've seen is over 60% of transactions in the app happen on Apple Pay anyhow. So maybe some people don't have it set up but you know, nonetheless. But that's a big benefit in per diem that again, Starbucks doesn't have SMS and social auth in terms of onboarding this one, I don't fully get why Starbucks doesn't do it. It's just, it's so much easier. The fraud component again, if I'm just using my email, it's really easy for me to spoof like multiple emails. You know, everybody can create a new Gmail account or whatever but with SMS you generally only have one phone number, you know, and so it's a lot easy, it's a lot harder, I'm sorry to do fraud via sms. And it's just like, you know, the account's yours, it's locked down, you're getting that SMS with the four digit code. And the best thing about this, you never have to deal with I forgot my password. Which is just a nightmare for everybody. If email is, if it's still important for you to capture emails so you can still do that. So a couple of things A, we enable the social authentic as well. So people can sign in with Apple and they can sign in with Google and if they do that, we're automatically going to get their email and you're going to get their email in your Square marketing database. The other way to do that Is there is a setting where you can enable email on signup. I only recommend this if you're doing in house delivery because you have to have emails on signup. Otherwise we ask people in the app if they haven't added an email, we'll put a prompt there for them to add their email. The reason I don't necessarily recommend adding the email flag when people sign up is again, you want people to sign up and you want them to order and pay and be happy. And when they add their email, we have to verify their email address because otherwise, again I mentioned that fraud thing and so that then they have to go get a code from their email address. Ah, maybe their kid starts crying, they forget. So that's why I don't necessarily recommend it again unless you're doing in house delivery, then it's something that you should have on, but otherwise I would turn it off. And then there are going to be prompts that'll let people again say, hey, add your email. So nonetheless that's. But again, I'm not sure why Starbucks doesn't do this. Once you're in the app, that's the benefit of apps. You're always logged in. But if for any reason you need to delete the app and get back in, it's such a pain and you're 100% going to forget your password. Then you got to go through reset. Then you got to, you know, it's just a whole, whole thing you don't want to get into. And that's why we avoid it entirely at per diem. And that's why onboarding has been like a huge, huge lift in terms of our apps subscription. So we talked about this in the previous webinar. You know, Panera's made subscriptions really famous. So this is another thing that we offer in the app. We have a French bakery that's just recently, come on, they do a 10amonth subscription. They have nearly 2,000 members and they give people 50% off espresso drinks and then 15% off pastries. And what they've said is that type of subscription has increased foot traffic 30% and so these. And, and you hear that kind of across the board. So done. Well, obviously it needs to be ROI positive and you need to think it through. But we can let you do this in the app. It's a part of the pro plan. But basically you say you determine what the, what the monthly weekly amount is. You can set up the cadence and then basically say, hey, for 10 bucks a month or for 20 bucks a week, whatever it is you want to give. I like that approach of giving 50% off coffee drinks. I know a lot of times it's just free coffee drinks and that's great too. So I think if you're doing like a little bit of a higher. That's what Blank Street Coffee does here in New York City. I think it's like 20 bucks a month or 20 bucks a week. Sorry. And then you get like treat two free drinks a day, something like that, that. And so we give you all those controls in the subscriptions. You can say, hey, you, it's 20 bucks a week. You get two free espresso drinks a day. You can order every two or three hours to get the discount and you get X percentage off all our pastries. So again, you're going to see, you know, people that do subscribe, obvious. Obviously they're going to be like your regulars. And then, you know, this type of program is really popular. So nonetheless, you see this at pret. You see this at, at Panera, Blank Street Coffee. And we have a number of shops that use this feature as well. But Starbucks has not adopted this. I'm assuming they're not going to adopt this just because they've invested so much in their own loyalty program, social media integration. So, you know, Starbucks does have different offers. But I think one of the nice things that we offer in per diem is you put so much on your Instagram. It's. It's a lot of your brand and your story and just who you are in a lot of ways. Like, someone's Instagram feed tells more about their place than their website does. But the problem is that Instagram, for all its greatness and that it can bring you customers. It's a third party, the same way that Door Dash is a third party. And, and at the end of the day, you might be getting some users there, but Instagram's also getting a lot and selling ads on everything. So one nice thing about the app is that you can add your feed to the app and then, great. You're just. That's your vibe, that's your. That's your community. You know, you're showing your great images and all that stuff and, and telling your story through your own app where, you know, now Instagram's not selling ads and doing whatever, and you're just able to kind of have that extra branding. I'm not sure why Starbucks didn't do it. They have. I guess they figure they have enough going on, so. But nonetheless, it's a nice Addition to the per diem app delivery. So Starbucks did, they did do a deal with DoorDash, but that's only in the DoorDash app. And so in the Starbucks app itself, you can't get delivery. And so I'm sure when they kicked off the app they're like, who's going to order coffee delivery? But as many of you know, people do get coffee delivered and they like getting food delivered, obviously. So we offer delivery out of the box via DoorDash. So all you need to do is turn that on. You turn on the delivery settings and then anybody within 10 mile radius can get that item delivered by default. You can pass all those delivery fees to the end user if you want, you can pay for part of it. So you could say like, you know, we have a restaurant, Tika Shack, actually, they do 299 flat delivery, but then they charge a service fee on the delivery and that helps them have just a lower delivery fee to kind of compete with all the marketplaces. Like DoorDash for instance. Because, you know, DoorDash will often do free delivery or really cheap delivery. But you know, as the operator that you're paying the other half of that, you're paying the 20 to 30% commission. So yeah, they can do a free delivery. So in the app there's no commission. You do, there is a dollar platform fee that you have to pay, but again, you can push that to the end user and then it's just the flat DoorDash delivery fee. So that's baked right in. My assumption is the reason that Starbucks doesn't do this is just they probably have a deal with DoorDash where they're exclusive to, you know, doing delivery in the third party apps. And the great thing with those, and this I recommend to Everybody that's doing DoorDash or UberEats too. Once you have your own app, and especially if you have delivery turned on with those, even if you don't, then it becomes a lot easier to convert those users that you're getting from all your DoorDash orders that you're getting. You should really focus on converting those people to your app. So whether it's giving them a special deal, you know, you can stick postcards into the bag, whatever it is, but really aiming, because if you think about it, you're going to pay those commissions to DoorDash for, you know, the first couple of times, but then if you can convert them to your app, you're not paying those anymore and then that's a really cheap acquisition fee to get a new user. So if you're just paying like 20% on a few orders and now that that's your user for life and they're going to be ordering through the app a bunch to you, then DoorDash becomes a really great marketing channel. And it doesn't become as onerous as it does if you're only on DoorDash and that person's ordering all the time through DoorDash. That's when DoorDash maybe doesn't make as much sense, where it's like someone's ordering from you every day and you're paying like a high percentage on all those orders. That's someone that you need to get over to your app. And generally if they're ordering from you every day, they're going to want your app. So I think it's just up till now that's been hard to do because as I mentioned before, there haven't really been great solutions out there for smaller coffee shops, for independent coffee shops, and it's really only been the Starbucks and the Peet's Coffees that have been able to afford a really great app. And then there are a bunch of like, really, like subpar experiences out there where at the end of the day, someone's people want. People crave good experiences over everything. So if the DoorDash app is easier for someone to use than your own app, then they're going to use DoorDash. But if your app is better than DoorDash or easier to use, then they're going to use your app, you can guarantee it. Because, like, their personal favorites are there. They don't want to go through all that junk that DoorDash puts in there as well. If they can just get right into your app, order their favorite, get their points, see their points, get it delivered, then you're good to go. So that's a big one as well. And then, yeah, just a quick testimonial. So Coffeeman, we work with them, they're down in North Carolina, but you can see a quick testimonial for them where, you know, it works and looks exactly like the Starbucks app. So we actually, you know, it's very similar, I would say it's not exactly, but we've, as I mentioned before, we've taken a lot of inspiration from the Starbucks app. Myself, I was a product manager for mobile apps both at Resi and opentable. My co founder was an engineering manager as well and led engineering at Beats Music. So we've had a lot of experience with apps, but we have taken a lot of those key components that we talked about today. You can see with the points and with the store credit and the captivating imagery. But again, this is, I think, standard today in a lot of ways. But nonetheless, you can see from Coffeeman himself. So. Yeah. And that just about does it in terms of our itinerary today. I'd be happy to answer any questions that anyone might have. I can also if, if you'd be interested in demoing any parts of either our product, the dashboard or anything like that, or just. Yeah, I'll just leave it open for a second. Cool. Well, that's going to do it for today, then. Again, I'm Tomer Malovinski. Thanks for joining us. We're here every week covering new topics. And yeah, have a great rest of your summer, and we'll see you next week. Thanks, everyone.