Ethan Suplee: There Is No One-Trick Pony | The Tyler Wagner Show #1050

All right everyone, welcome back to another episode. Today we have Ethan Suplee with us, so welcome to the show, man.

Hey Tyler, thanks for having me.

Of course, grateful to have you on. Um, so if you can just, uh, start us off a little bit more about you and what you do.

I, uh, I'm an actor and I've had a podcast for a few years which, um, I lost a bunch of weight and we— on my podcast, it's called American Glutton, we talk about health and fitness and setting physical goals and, uh, you know, anything in that world. Um, I just had a movie out called Dog. I've, I've been acting for almost 30 years. As you said, you were a fan of something that was also almost 30 years old today, which is super weird because you're 30 years old. You know, that was Boy Meets World. That was my, my first job. And my most recent movie in the theaters was called Dog. And I have a couple of movies coming out still.

Awesome. Okay, so I like to kind of have like a storyline here. So how did you first— so Boy Meets World, I didn't know that was actually your first show that you were in. So How did you even get like involved in that world of like Hollywood, I guess you could say?

Yeah, I think it was very different. Like, I've had people ask me today, how do I start acting? And today I really have no idea what the process is. Back then, there were— you would get a picture of your face taken and you would have a stack of pictures, which, you know, I guess my wife has some pictures framed on our wall, but this is just not a part of my life, having tangible pictures anymore. They're all on my phone or on my computer now. Um, but you would have this stack of headshots, and there were, um, trade magazines. There was, uh, I think a couple of them still exist. The Hollywood Reporter still exists, and Variety still exists, although I don't know possibly those have moved online too, but these were actual magazines back then, uh, and, and stuff called like Backstage West. And, and you would go through, and in the back there would be agencies seeking, like, saying like, we're open to new clients, send us your headshots. And so I did that, and, uh, one of these agents saw my headshot and was like, okay, I'm gonna send you out on some auditions. And The first audition he sent me out on was Melrose Place, which I got, but I hadn't ever acted before. And there was like a catch-22 with the union where in order to get a job in the union, you had to be a member of the union. And there's something they can do where they pay for you to become a member. Melrose Place was unwilling to do that for me, but later that day, I auditioned for Boy Meets World and got that. So I got my first 2 jobs essentially. I didn't actually get to do one of them, but I got the second one, and Boy Meets World liked me enough to pay for me to join the union. And then I did, you know, 30 episodes of that show.

Yeah, man, that's incredible because like, I don't know, like how many seasons do you know? How many seasons that had Boy Meets World? Like 10 or something?

It had a bunch. It had— there were— there was one season prior to me coming on to the show And then I did 2 seasons, and then I think I did like 1 or 2 episodes of a 3rd or a 4th season. Um, but I was really only mainly in 2 seasons of it.

Got it. And that was when they— that was like the middle school, high school? There's— yeah, gotcha. Because, oh yeah, they even had like a college thing. I forgot.

Yeah, I did not make it to college. I mean, they did it. There was a part 2 where they're married and have a kid, like That show has kind of lived for a long time. I'll still get residuals for that show, which is super crazy because my kids who, you know, I have a kid not much younger than you who also has a kid, like I have a kid and a grandkid. They've never heard of this show. They have no idea anything about this show because it really existed prior to them existing, you know?

Yeah, that's so crazy, man. Yeah, I don't know what it was because like you said, it was before really even my time, but it was just I just fell in love with it. I don't know what it was. Maybe— I'm not gonna lie, I mean, I have a thing for like big lips, so Topanga kind of got me. Probably drew me in a little bit. Yeah. Um, so regardless, but, um, gotcha.

You know, I was, I was 17 and 18, but she was a little kid, you know, when we did that. Like, she was— for me, there was no— there was that— I didn't have that moment with her because— and even to this day, I think of her, she's probably your age, if not older than you, and I still think of her as like a 12-year-old kid.

That's why I wonder. Yeah, I wonder how old she is. Um, and, uh, Corey, even though I'm sure Corey's not his actual name, I, I doubt. Um, do you still talk to any of them?

No, no, not at all.

Yeah. Um, so how does that— and I'm not asking specific amounts, but like the residuals, that's just because like some stations are still playing. So like until stations stop playing, which maybe is for a long time, you will actually receive monthly checks like forever from that?

Yeah, I mean, listen, the Boy Meets World residuals, there's a bar, you know, this bar might not exist anymore and I haven't had a drink in 20 years, so I really have no idea if this bar exists. But there was, when I was much younger, there was a bar in Los Angeles called Residuals and it was in the Valley and you could take in a check for any amount and trade it for a drink. So you could take in a 2-cent check. I will get stacks of checks, stacks of checks that are worth less than the postage that they're sending them to me on. So, you know, yeah, it's still money. I don't know that the Boy Meets World money after 30 years is meaningful at all, but it is still money, I guess.

That's a cool bar idea. That's interesting.

Yeah, it probably— it probably does not exist anymore.

Yeah, if everybody's coming in with 2-cent checks, then I think that went out of business probably. But maybe there's some people coming in with big ones, just, you know, $100, just like donating. Yeah. Um, so then what was— so after Boy Meets World, then did you go— what was like kind of your next like big thing, if you will?

Like, was it a show or another I, you know, like a year into doing Boy Meets World, I did a movie called Mallrats. And, and that was a monumental flop at the theaters. But then a few years later, it became very successful amongst college kids and actually now is insanely popular, like unbelievably popular. It was like one of Blockbuster's biggest renters. And, you know, strangely, Mallrats does very well. And after Boy Meets World, I mainly did movies for close to 10 years until I did My Name Is Earl. And we started that in 2005. But I just did movies up until then.

Oh, yeah. So I'm trying to like remember all these things. So wait, My Name Is Earl. That's another show that is hilarious, dude.

Yeah.

I forgot about that show. That's so crazy.

The residuals for My Name Is Earl are quite a bit more substantial than they are for German.

Fair enough. That makes sense. Yeah, that's like— I don't even know what you would call that type of comedy. I'm sure there's a name for it. But whatever it is, I just find that type to be just hilarious. I remember just watching that show and just dying, so. Yeah. I might actually go back. Is that on Netflix at all? Or where I could just like binge watch?

I don't know where it is now. I know it's somewhere because a few people have told me recently that they've binge watched it and I don't think people are really doing DVDs anymore.

No, no.

But I don't know.

Okay, yeah, I'll have to look. 'Cause that would be one I would binge watch. The only other one I did that with is Breaking Bad. I just absolutely crushed like 5 or 6 seasons in like 2 weeks. It was not healthy. Okay, so then that's all going well, your career there. When was it that you kind of decided that, I don't know, you wanted to get serious about your health? Like, was there a bunch of things that kind of piled on, or were you just like, I don't know, just tired of, I guess, not feeling optimal, I suppose?

No, it really— that was a decision I made. I started working on that in 2002. I was away doing a movie in Romania called Cold Mountain, and I just, I, I, I'm that, you know, as a kid, as an overweight kid, I was put on a lot of diets by my parents and grandparents. That was all kind of done to me. I wasn't really a participant or a willing participant. You know, it wasn't like they dragged me kicking and screaming into this diet, but I was resentful of it. So the first time I went, oh hey, I'm gonna have a better quality of life, um, I'm gonna have a longer life, I don't have to worry about death as much as I do right now, uh, you know. And I had gotten sober about a year before that, and I had a fairly substantial drug problem also. And so I got sober, and, and that was good. And then it took me about a year to go, oh, here's this other gigantic problem I have. That I gotta deal with. And it was rocky for a long time, you know, figuring out— figuring out, you know, the act of losing weight, I don't find to be difficult at all. And I think many people can easily lose weight. It's keeping weight off and, and really confronting the rest of your life once you've lost weight that becomes very difficult. And, you you know, in my case, I was dealing with massive weight loss. So over 250 pounds of weight loss, that's not easily done in a linear fashion. You know what I mean? Like getting from point A to point B on that is really unrealistic. So there are fits and starts and you hit plateaus and you have to make adjustments to your diet. You can't just go like, Well, I'm gonna eat, you know, 1,200 calories for 2 years and I'll lose all the weight I want. It's not really gonna work out for you. Yeah. You know, maybe it worked out for a guy, but statistically it seems to not work that way. So it took me a while to even figure it out. And then there's a lot of BS in the diet industry too. There's a heavy appetite for single kind of, single idea solutions where it's like, you know, I think of dieting in a similar way to like driving a car. I think of eating in a similar way. Like, we're kind of on autopilot. The amount of thought that goes into it could be like the choice between Wendy's or McDonald's, right? Or, you know, do I want the chicken or steak? You know, you go to one of these sit-down dinners and you're eating kind of thoughtlessly. And diets come along and they go like, We're just going to make one tweak. It might be difficult, it might be a hard tweak, but you can stay on autopilot. You can keep your life on autopilot and that's going to handle weight loss. And I think that seems like such a desirable thing to people who realistically have to restructure their entire lives to not slip back into the problem that they're trying to get out of. And it took me a long time to figure that out. You know, I did numerous diets where I lost a ton of weight and then the diet ended and I gained all the weight back. And so it was just kind of like, oh, I'm not thinking, I'm just thinking losing weight is the issue and that when I get to my magical weight, my life will magically be better. And I've had to kind of take a different perspective on that.

Yeah, I find, um, so, okay, I have like 6 or 7 questions. I'm gonna try to ask them in the order I want to out of all that. So with, um, okay, I've never had weight issues, but I do think, is it, isn't it true that like some people, like you were a kid, right? It was it that, um, first question I guess is like, when you were a kid, were you overeating, or do you think it was more of like a genetic thing, like when you were young, you know what I mean?

I think it's a bit of both. I think that, um, I think, first of all, I was put on a diet way too early. Like, I was put on a diet when I was at a weight that I would have grown out of. You know, when I was 5, I was a chubby 5-year-old. And I'm sure if it had never— if my attention had never been put on it, I probably wouldn't have gotten to be morbidly obese. That's my suspicion. I have no real evidence or science to back this up. But when I look at the cycle of dieting, I very quickly fell into habits of feeling a lot of shame about my body, being told my body was bad because of my weight, being forced to eat in a certain way that I didn't like, therefore developing the habit of cheating on my diet. I was rewarded for good dieting with trips to the drive-through, so food became a reward also. There were just so many bad habits. And on top of that, I think I have the genetics that is predisposed to accumulating a lot of adipose tissue. So, you know, every human body wants to store fat. Fat is the fuel, is like the elec— you know, if you think about a car and gasoline, if the car has no gasoline, it can't run. Fat is our body's reserve tank of energy. So for the entirety of evolution, or however, you know, if you perceive that this was all created by a magical being, even that could be explained by intelligent design, right? That there is a mechanism genetically to avoid famines because we've had lots of famines. People starve to death very quickly. You don't die very, very quickly from being overweight. So this mechanism of storing energy so that we can get through a winter or we can get through, you know, a potato famine in Ireland or something like that is storing fat. And so, you know, when many people are presented with a massive abundance of very cheap calories at every place of business they go to. You go to the store to buy office paper, and when you're checking out, there's candy and snacks and sodas. You know what I mean? You go to get gasoline and there it's like a restaurant in the gas station. You cannot go anywhere where you're not being offered very cheap calories. And so for a lot of people, I think that will create a perfect kind of storm where like, yeah, it's better than people starving to death. Having an abundance of food, certainly in my view, is better than lacking food. Um, but now we get this un— maybe undesirable byproduct of obesity.

Yeah, it makes— and I think sometimes, you know, we like attract what we're fearful of in a sense. So like the fact that it started with you at such a young age, and then it like— it didn't even almost have to be something that you were aware of, but they made it so that you were aware of it. And then maybe your awareness turned into fear of, you know, wanting to lose the weight. And then that just like perpetuated into this cycle, you know, that lasted for a while. And when you're young, don't they say it's like before 7, you're just like, so you're like Play-Doh, kind of like whatever happens before 7 is like very important. Like it stays with you for the rest of your life. It doesn't seem so, but like psychologically speaking, it's like proven, I think. So then, and I actually think I saw this on Rogan. There was, it was like 2 episodes. One episode there was, it was this Netflix documentary and these 2 guys were on and they were talking about like all about vegan. Like if you want to be as healthy as you can be vegan. And then like next episode would be like carnivore diet, all meat, right?

So that's the kind of bullshit in the diet industry I'm talking about. Like there are so many solutions, like, oh, I'm 400 pounds. I was 550. I'm 550 pounds. And what's the solution? If I stop eating animals, I'm done. I can still eat kind of mindlessly, but just know that I can't eat animal products. I'm telling you, this is not going to work for anyone. Same goes with meat. Same thing for keto. All of these, like, one-trick ponies I think of as, like, really get-rich-quick schemes. And it's like the guys who got rich, did a whole bunch of little nuanced shit. Sorry, can I swear?

Yeah, yeah, okay.

A whole bunch of little nuanced shit that has nothing to do with this one gimmick, you know what I mean? There's like a lot to account for a human life that even scientific controls aren't taking into account. Like, does everybody sleep the same? Uh, is anybody stressed out about finances? Are people hydrating? You know, what is, you know, some people in America live in food deserts where there's like no fresh produce available to them. So there's a lot of factors. And then there's the genetic one. You know, there have been studies, there's one, there's a great study called the Dutch Hunger Winter, which showed that the incidence of obesity and like diabetes and metabolic-related disease was astronomically higher amongst women who went through a famine while pregnant. That's really quick that genetics are changing from, from mother to child in, in months. That's a massive change. You know, that's not evolving over a million years. That's like almost instantaneous. As far as evolution goes. So like, you can turn on the body's, uh, extreme need to store food as fat, to store fuel, just by starving yourself. So you starve yourself, the body thinks, I'm starving. The minute you start eating again, the body's gonna go into hyperdrive of storing fat, everything it can, so that the next time you starve, it's got more fat in the reserves. You know what I mean? It's like if you go bankrupt, the next time you make money, you might be thinking about saving it a little bit more. You know what I mean? Like that might come into play. This is like not a crazy thing to consider. So I actually think part of it too was being put on all these diets as a kid increased my propensity to store fat. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of factors in there. And, you know, I've talked to a number of people who wrestled as kids in high school, and they're all—

they all—

a lot of them, I can't say all, but a lot of them struggle with their weight because they were starving themselves weekly to make weight at wrestling meets. And then it's just harder to take weight off in the future, and their body is storing fat at a higher rate, whether it's your body going like, eat more Because you, you just starved. So we need to make up for that or store more fat so that when we starve again, because we know this cycle's coming, we're gonna have more protection. Because by the way, the end of a caloric deficit, which all successful diets, if you're losing weight, you're in a caloric deficit. The end of that, like if you do that forever, you die. If you are in a caloric deficit, You die eventually because your body is malnourished. You know what I mean? You start to have wasting of your organs and your system shuts down. The fatness, obesity, at least gets you past the point of being able to procreate. So on a really, like, if we're just going like on a biological level, people aren't dying of obesity before they hit their 20s, which is like prime time to pass on your genes. You know what I mean? So there's, there's a lot. I think that— I don't think it's one thing. I think it's like a really magical moment right now where everything is, is perfectly poised to— for people to become obese.

Yeah, that makes sense. And so like, what, um, I guess it seems like you found kind of like a happy medium for yourself because I agree with what you're saying where, I mean, everyone's different and like I mean, everybody's the same and everyone's different at the same time. That's kind of the paradox of everything in life. Uh, like, meaning the biggest paradox is this interview means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, but for somebody who might be struggling with their weight listens to this, it could change their entire life, and then their whole family's different, and we made—

maybe, yeah, that would be nice.

Yeah, both are true, right?

Like, or somebody's just entertained because we're like cursing and we're like talking like sailors or something.

Yeah, yeah. Whatever it is. And so 1,000 years from now, maybe it won't be that relevant, but for the next 100, it might be profound. So sure, it's interesting how— so what I'm getting is like, like you were saying, I know so many people that they're all about keto and then they're all about fasting and, and it's just all these things. But like you were saying, if you only do one of them, it just doesn't seem like a long-term, um, plan that is like good for success, right?

Because Yeah, I think of it as tools. I think of keto or intermittent fasting or carnivore or veganism. These are tools. They're great tools. If they're a tool that helps you get your product, that's fine. Hard to build a house with a hammer. You might need a saw also. You might need, you know, measuring tape. There might be more to it than just that one thing. So the really, the only problem I have with keto is that it's marketed as a, a be-all end-all, and there is no kind of emphasis put on energy balance. And this is really gets more important to people who are massively overweight, less important if you need to lose 10 pounds, more important if you're looking at like a lot of weight to lose. And I'll tell you the problem I have with it is this. Keto emphasizes like you can eat as much as you want, as long as it's this stuff. And the problem with that is, is as you deplete your body of glycogen, which is sugar, sucrose, which, you know, anything can be turned into that basically, any plants and breads and pastas, and even protein can be turned into glycogen. As you deplete your body of that, which is, you know, the other half of the word carbohydrate, hydrate, it's all kind of stored as water in your muscles. You could actually be in an energy surplus. So you could be eating 7,000 calories a day in ribeyes, right? But you're, you're depleting yourself of this water and losing weight on a scale and not losing any fat at all. So there's one tricky thing about keto. Many people go into it and go, I lost 10 pounds in the first week. Yes, it was almost all water, truly.

Yeah.

And so then the other problem is for long term, let's say you're 500 pounds and in order to maintain 500 pounds, you get like 4,500 calories a day. You lose 100 pounds. Now you're 400 pounds. You no longer get 4,500 calories a day. Your body now, you just chopped a big portion of the amount of energy it's gonna require to keep that body maintained at that weight. Therefore, the amount to lose weight has also gone down. So on keto, it has this whole idea that you're just gonna naturally eat the right amount. And I'm telling you, as a person who was 550 pounds, I will overeat anything. I will overeat steaks and butter. I will overeat lobster. I will overeat pizza. It does not matter to me. And so there came a point on keto where I'm going, I'm no longer losing weight. I'm perfect. I'm eating chicken thighs and having like, you know, 2 sprigs of broccoli a day and some olive oil, and I'm not losing any weight. And so what did I have to do? I had to reduce the amount I was eating because the amount of energy you're putting into your body makes a difference. And so at some point I started going like, wait a second, if it's all about energy balance, what fucking difference does it make if I'm keto or not? It's not helping me. It's not keeping me fuller on less food. I'm now on a restrictive diet and doing keto. Those two things. So those are the problems I have with keto. Now, that said, if somebody is doing keto and it's working for them and they're happy with it, good. I'm not trying to dissuade anybody from keto, but I am saying I think they're leaving a little bit out of the conversation.

Got it. Yeah, that makes sense. It is any actual, though, direct points with like the vegan or carnivore. Like, do you think they could work for some people or it's just like—

I have a buddy, Kevin Smith, who directed Mallrats, and I've had two really wonderful conversations with him on my podcast. And he had a heart attack, which was the thing that really instigated his— he had something that's called a widowmaker heart attack. Like, it's bad. Most people die from this heart attack.

Yeah.

And he kind of woke up in the hospital and his kid is a vegan and she was like, you got to do something. And he was like, you're right, what do I do? She said, you're going vegan. He said, great, I'm going vegan. And he lost a ton of weight and then he started gaining weight and he was like, I'm being perfect on veganism but I'm gaining weight, what's the fucking deal? So then he had to start paying attention to how much. So then he started doing intermittent fasting and vegan And that worked for a minute and then he started gaining weight again. And so he then within all of this, he's doing intermittent fasting, veganism, and he's going like, I can't overeat in my window because at the end of the day, if you get 4 hours to eat, I'll, I promise you, I can overeat in 4 hours. That's not a magical thing where you can just eat 10,000 calories in 4 hours. That's hard. It can be done. You add some milkshakes to your shit and start buttering your steak and eating potatoes and shit. You can get to 10,000 calories pretty quick. For sure. And if you're under the delusion that this 4-hour window is magical and you can eat 10,000 calories and you're not Michael Phelps swimming 20 hours a day, you're going to gain weight. So like, these are the kind of lessons where You know, and I feel bad too for people who like are sold because I want, I was sold all this stuff too. I wanted so badly to believe anything. Just make one tweak. Tell me I got a 4. Bread is bad? Okay. I won't eat bread.

I did.

It didn't change my life.

Grains?

Fine. Carbohydrates? Fine. I'll excise carbohydrates. I'm still going to eat on autopilot and live my life on autopilot. And it doesn't work. It's not a long-term solution. Unfortunately, these fucking dumb diet words like mindfulness and lifestyle change, once you actually do them, you go, "Oh, that's what these people were talking about! That's the key to the kingdom! I have to change my whole life!" You know? If I don't want to be 500 pounds again or even 300 pounds again, I have to make a radical change to my life. I can't, you know, eat out of boredom. I can't eat to comfort myself. I can't use food as entertainment anymore. Food is fueling my body. Otherwise I'm gonna eat in a way that makes me fat, period.

Got it. So for you, that's kind of where you've landed with it is more of a mindset shift and not following one specific diet. But so what is your typical like eating now? Just curious.

I work out 5 or 6 days a week and on workout days I get a bit more carbs and on the weekend or my day off, I get a bit more fat and a bit less carbs. So it's not really carb cycling or anything like that. I've been doing this for years now. So I know that if I'm maintaining my weight, roughly what I can eat. And if I'm trying to lose a little fat because I got to take a photo shoot, because by the way, like maintaining perfect six-pack abs is a fucking nightmare. And I don't recommend for people to try to do that. It's awful. Way harder than just a normal diet. But maintaining a healthy weight for me is really easy now. It's not— there's not much effort in it at all, but it took a while to figure that out and to get used to it and to break a bunch of bad habits and to go like, what does an appropriate meal look like for me? And I can have anything I want. I can have sugar, I can have rice, I can have pasta. The quantities are definitely different than what I was accustomed to years ago. And I find that if I eat whole foods, if I eat foods with one word as an ingredient, I tend to feel better. And so that is mainly what I eat. You know, I eat stuff like chicken and salmon and steak and rice and vegetables, because there's nothing else in them. It's just Broccoli, that's the ingredient, you know what I mean? Um, yeah, so when I, when I start to mess around with stuff that's got a lot of, uh, ingredients, I start to not feel as good. And this, again, I wouldn't tell anybody like, that's what you should do. You should do what works for you, but you should go into it knowing that just cutting out carbohydrates might make you lose weight on the scale, but that weight loss might only be water and it's probably not going to solve your entire life.

Yeah, I do think that's a good rule though to go by. Uh, one of my friends Amir, and, and there's so many other people that like do this on YouTube, uh, you like go into a grocery store, if you actually really start to look at ingredients on stuff, it is like so far— that's what I found funny now, right? If you actually look at stuff in the US, it's more like the advertisement is more about what's not in it than— yeah, so it's like gluten-free, grain-free, no probiotic, or whatever. All these, it's like literally the list of things that are— they're like, hey, we're not poisoning you as much as we used to, so you should buy.

Yeah, but even that, I think, like, I eat gluten and grains almost every day and I'm not poisoned. And I know a ton of people who eat gluten and grains every day and are not poisoned. And it's like These come from somebody making a shitload of money on a book, which maybe you helped with. We don't know. And, and, and like, and then suddenly the entire ecosystem of America changes where like, oh my God, carbohydrates are bad. There's nothing wrong with carbohydrates. Nothing at all wrong with carbohydrates. Now, if you overeat anything, maybe it's really tough to overeat protein. But if you're overeating any fat or carbohydrates, you're going to gain weight.

No, definitely. And I— so what's weird, and maybe you know about this or not. So gluten, I found out like 4 years ago, I had a serious like gluten issue. So I go into this doctor. I'd been to the hospital like 5 times before. I was having panic attacks and stuff. Very random. I don't have like anxiety really ever. Like, so this was really strange. And the hospital kept being like, you're fine. Like, you know, because they just check your pulse. They're like, dude, you're like 26. You're healthy. You're good. And but my stomach was issues, everything was all messed up. I go in, test my blood, he's like, you're allergic to gluten, or like, you're allergic to— now I will say, so I removed gluten, that was it for sure. Everything went back to normal. Everything's— now I was just in— this was like a year or two ago, I was just in Monaco, uh, like near France. I eat bread over there and I was fine. And I've actually heard there's something that like they allow here in the US to spray with like farmers and stuff that is within the wheat or gluten here that is different than what they allow in other countries. And that is actually what is causing a lot of people in the US to have weird side effects with like gluten stuff. So either way, I don't know if you've heard of that or not.

I listen, I, I've had friends who have stopped eating gluten and had eczema clear up and, and, and like, I'm not denying that Certain people have gluten intolerances. I mean, there's disease, Hashimoto's, celiac, like there are real diseases that people can get and there can be allergies. But I think when you have like every quasi-hippie in Los Angeles going like, I'm gluten intolerant, and I just don't— I think they're mostly full of crap. I find just about all of the food in Europe to be of superior quality to America. I really think there's a lot, you know, the definition of bread in America has legally changed a number of times. It was 3 ingredients prior to World War II. And I believe they changed the definition so that they could have it, so that they could make it so that it could sit on shelves for a long time. And suddenly, you know, now the definition of bread has like 30 ingredients, the legal definition of breads, but it was flour, water, and salt pre-World War II. And if you ferment your, you know, Michael Pollan talks about this, but there's a way to make bread so that the gluten is predigested by the bacteria itself. And it's easier for people with gluten intolerances to digest that. So it's like, like a real sourdough bread. You might be fine eating. I don't know. I'm not telling you.

I would actually like to look into that because I think you're 100% right. And like, it is like there is like an illusion out right now of like if something's gluten-free, that it's like healthy or something.

Yeah, bullshit. It's not healthy.

No, I know. And like, it actually, because I've bought and I've bought gluten-free bread and it has like 60— I'm not even kidding you, like the whole— it's the amount of ingredients, and 40 or like 50% of the ingredients I can't even pronounce. So what the heck? It ain't bread, I'll say. Um, so it's probably wor— even though it doesn't give me like a stomachache like other, it's probably worse off due to the amount of ingredients, and I don't know what I'm actually eating.

Yeah.

So I did want to touch on, because, um, I'm just curious, and as much detail as you want to go or not go into it, but you said Before or during the initial— or not initial, but weight issues, you had a drug issue as well.

Yeah.

What was— how did you get into that? And like, how did you— also, the bigger question, how did you get out of it? Because I think that's like a struggle. Sure. Depending on what the drugs are, just very difficult, I think, for a lot of people.

No, it is. Drugs are— drugs are tough. I, I— in 1996, I had my gallbladder removed, and, uh, I was given a bunch of Vicodin And man, I took Vicodin and it was like the most magical pill. I had confidence when I took it. I just felt incredible taking this stuff. Like I could talk to anyone. I could walk into any room and not feel like shame about the size of my body. So when that prescription ran out, I just started finding, you know, more and more doctors to fill it. And then I found you know, Percocet and, uh, stronger versions of that. And eventually I— eventually I wound up on heroin. Um, and, uh, yeah, that was tough to get off of.

Yeah. So that was— so eventually though, because this is like— that is literally the cycle that— it's very common, that cycle. I've literally heard so many times. So eventually though, was it that like the doctor stopped prescribing it to you and then you were forced to like go to it? Like, I don't know, somebody who dealt heroin? Or was it that those pills just literally weren't— because your body gets used to it, right? So you don't even— you didn't feel it anymore, I guess. Or you—

I had to take higher and higher doses and they did become harder and harder to get. But there's, you know, I had shady doctors in LA that I could go to and get pills and get like a Demerol shot in the office and a couple prescriptions. There was a place called the Pandaria, which I believe means bakery in Spanish, down near downtown LA that sold Vicodin out of the shop, out of the bakery for a dollar a pill. Yeah. So there were, there were ways to get it. It just, it just got to the point. And it wasn't like, you know, if you took a handful, if you took 15, if I took 15 Vicodin, I would have felt it still. But it got to the point of like, I could buy a gram of this other stuff. And be fine for twice as long as literally a giant bag of pills are going to keep me.

Got it. And then what was the breaking point with that? And then how did you— did you end up going to rehab or were you able to?

Yeah.

Without, I don't know, cold turkey or something?

No, I went to a few rehabs. Not a— yeah, actually a few rehabs. I went to rehab a few times. And, you know, I tried But similarly to, um, what the way I talked about food, like this idea of if I can just, um, get biologically clean, right? Because there's a point where like you're no longer physiologically addicted to the thing. Like you stop taking it, you get sick, it's like the worst flu you ever felt. You're not sleeping. You've got this terrible flu and you're depressed. And so I would always think, like, if I can just get through this, I'll be fine because I've decided I don't want to do this thing anymore. And so I'd spend like a week in my house, not leaving, miserably sick. And then on day 1 of like, I feel a little bit better today, I would be on drugs that day. By the end of that day, I would be back on drugs. So there was a lot more work to do. With regard to like examining all facets of my life, reconstructing it in a way that this isn't going to keep happening. And like a bigger break by going to rehab. That was helpful too, on the final one.

Gotcha, gotcha. And then again, as much detail as I'm just curious, I actually have family members that have like gone through this too. So did you end up doing like Suboxone or something? Or no?

No.

Okay, so that wasn't in there.

I was given something else in one of the rehabs. But it wasn't Suboxone. I don't know that I, you know, this is all in the '90s still. So I don't know that Suboxone really existed. There was methadone back then. I wasn't put on methadone either. I would— I forget what I was given. But you know, The other thing you, you, you learn is that in rehab is like the— I was also taking, um, benzos. And so benzos was really what they were more worried about. So I was given meds to come off of those, uh, like Xanax. I was taking a ton of Xanax. Um, and coming off heroin is really uncomfortable, but you're not, you're not going to die from it. But coming off alcohol or prescription drugs can kill you. So that's when they kind of give you a little medical detox.

Got it. Yeah, I know, I'm a big Jordan Peterson fan, and when I heard about with his— I think it was some sort of benzo or Xanax, I don't know exactly what it was, but he was struggling a lot. And I've heard that, that you can— I know alcohol, but with benzos you can die as well, I guess, like seizures or something. Your body just like, they're used to a certain way for so long, and then it just like goes into overdrive when you get off of bit or something.

Yeah.

So I guess one of the last questions for you. So like, obviously now you've landed here sober, like healthy. Where— what are kind of like your next moves? Like, it seems like you're in an amazing place. So congrats. Congrats on making it here.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. I'm alive. I'm very pleased with myself. I'm a grandfather. I've got 4 kids. Like, I, I feel like I won the lottery. I feel like I have the greatest, uh, life. I, I never imagined my life being so wonderfully rich. Um, you know, I, I have— I want— I want— I'm so glad I'm talking to you because I wanted to ask you, like, what's the secret to marketing a book? Because I've been writing for a long time now, and I want to know, like, what's the— what's the trick to that? I'm sure it's not a one-word thing.

It's a one-trick pony.

Yeah.

Um, Well, I'll say this, a few, or wait here, as much as you wanna share, like tell me a little bit more, what's the book about?

I've actually got a couple, but the main one is just really talking about, you know, substance and food abuse and addiction.

Got it. So, well, first thing I'd consider, 'cause you already have a good audience, is potentially creating like a group and then having people go in the group where you like document the process of you actually writing, publishing, and doing the book. And what happens then is, so say you have a group of like 5,000, 10,000 people. Let's say it's a Facebook group and they watch you day in and day out. And you don't have to like put a bunch of thought. You could just like do a post in the morning. And I got this from Gary Vee, by the way, where he talks— you familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk?

I know who he is.

Yeah. So he talks about like documentation over creation. And you're just like showing the ups and downs of the process throughout like the months and years it takes. And then by the time you launch it, you literally have like a group of 10,000 people that feel like they're a part of your book, right? Because they are kind of, right? Because they've been with you in the whole journey. And then when you launch it, those people become like your launch team, and then they'll buy it, share it, leave a review, and then you're off to like a really good start, right? So that's one, that's like a free way. And then some of the stuff we offer is like hitting those like bestseller lists. Now, you know, you already— it just depends where you're at. Like, you kind of have already— not kind of, you do— like, you have that celebrity status. Like, you've been on Rogan and like stuff and other platforms. So I don't know if you would need this, but I'll just present to you like kind of how we work with people is we will help them hit one of those major bestseller lists like Wall Street Journal or New York Times, because once you hit those, it opens up a lot of doors to like the media and just more people become interested. But I would say for you, the interest is probably already there. So I don't know if you need to do that, meaning you might hit one of those bestseller lists organically without actually having to like pay a marketing firm like me to help orchestrate it happening.

Right.

So, but yeah, and then once you hit, you just want to like get back into the media circuit and just keep it top of mind. I'll give you an example. Actually, this would be a good example for the one we're talking about. So there's a book, and this will be funny. I'm curious what you think about this. So the book's called Weightlifting Is a Waste of Time.

I utterly disagree.

I know, I want you to— dude, you should— this is fun. Okay, so you should check it out. Uh, and the reason why— and I'm so glad that your response to it was that— is because it's like a controversial title. So we did the initial marketing for it, and I think it sold around 15,000 copies, hit Wall Street Journal bestseller, and then it went like pretty viral. I don't know the exact amount it sold, but probably hundreds of thousands, maybe around a million copies in that range. But it actually talks about just a different way of lifting weights where essentially you go to failure and it stimulates growth somehow. I don't know the science, but just a different way. But because that title was controversial and we got it into enough hands, it just went off.

It went fire, yeah.

So when you're with your book, I would say if you can somehow make that title that would make people feel a certain way about it.

Right, that's a big part of it, yeah.

Yeah, huge part because even if sometimes it'll happen, like we can get it on the bestseller list, but then next week there's another bestseller list and it drops off because it just wasn't remarkable enough for people to share. Right. So yeah, controversial title, bestseller list, media circuit, keep it top of mind. A year later, hopefully it has like a life of its own.

And that works. That— well, that's awesome. I, uh, okay, that's great things to think about because I, I will, I will keep that in mind. I've been writing for a long time and I, I, I haven't started editing yet, and that'll be, that'll be another whole long process, I'm sure.

Yeah, it takes a while. And have you like— do you have like literary agent? Are you like looking for publishers and stuff, or you might already have a deal or something?

Not looking, no, we haven't gotten there. I do have lit agents, um, but I'm not even really sharing stuff with them yet.

Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense because, yeah, you might decide— and it just depends on your goals, right? But you may decide like— because self-publishing, you keep all the back end, right? You get a little bit, you know, you don't get the support of a publisher but just in reality, like, publishers don't do— and I'm not speaking bad, a lot of them are partners of mine, so just saying, I love all of you publishers, right? But they don't do marketing, right? Like, they, they are just a publisher. And I think now that there's like self-publishing, to me it doesn't make sense to give up 80% of your royalties.

Oh, is that how much you give up? 80?

Normally 80, 90%. And really just saying like, I mean, yes, they have a great team, editors, design, it's perfect. Like, and your book might be in the airports and stuff, but it just depends. Like, are you— do you want to give that up or would you rather put up some money on the upfront and then keep all the backend success to yourself? Right? And pros and cons to both. Right? But I think just worth looking at all the options is what it is.

Yeah. Do you— can you still get on those bestseller lists without a publisher?

You can. So there's 5 major ones. New York Times, it's happened. It's very unlikely though without a traditional publisher. So if you want NYT, you have to go traditional pretty much. Um, now Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Amazon, and Barnes Noble, those 4, they're based on sales alone. So there's nothing else, no other part of the equation. Like, if you get the sales requirement, you're on the list, right? And I would say that like Wall Street Journal, USA Today, they're almost just as good as NYT. NYT just kind of has like a perception of being like the list. And look, perception in some cases— perception is reality in a lot of cases, right? I mean, those 3 are the top. Amazon's really easy. Do you know anything about Amazon actually, like bestseller or no? All right.

No, no.

I want to tell you that just to see your reaction. So Amazon bestseller is like a categorical thing, right? So it's very gameable. So what a lot of people do, and it's kind of like hurt the sincerity of what the list means, because you could like take your book, put it in a category like lawn mowing, and like sell like 10 copies in a day, and you're an Amazon bestseller.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So it's like, wow. Yeah.

So I'm writing a book on lawn mowing.

If you want to be a bestseller, dude, We could have— we could co-author it. We could have a mow that lawn, right? Right. Um, but no, so that one's just like very gameable. Again, the general public doesn't really know that, but for the people that are in the know, Amazon bestseller doesn't really mean much, but USA Today, Wall Street, NYT, that's what you really want to go for.

Got it.

Um, oh, and then, yeah, so sorry, we went on a tangent there, but, uh, where can people find you and stuff and stay? And when do you have any idea when the book will come out? That's my audience.

So yeah, I, I don't know, you know I run into a wall, like I have no trouble at all talking about or writing about drug addiction, getting off of drugs, food addiction, getting off of food, like all that's fine. When I run into writing about my wife, who really is the person who I feel saved my life, I have so much trouble writing about her. I don't know if it's because I think that if I solve her, she won't have this magical influence over me anymore. I don't know. And also, I don't want to give her away to anyone. So it's very tough because the story doesn't work without her. But I've been fucking, you know, opening veins onto keyboards writing, and it's the— it's all garbage. And I don't feel like any of it does her honor. So it's tough. Everything else is fucking easy. I, you know, talking about crazy stories about, you know, doing drugs at work are easy and You know, having the demons call me to Carl's Jr. at 4 o'clock in the morning.

That's easy.

Yeah. So there's that. I don't know when it will come out, but it will come out. Even if it comes out when I'm dead and my kids publish it. That's— yeah, no, I don't think my wife will allow that. It— and you can find me on Instagram. That's the— I'm on Twitter and Instagram. But I find people are so mean on Twitter that I don't really pay attention to that. I agree, man.

I don't mess with Twitter.

Yeah, it's a bummer, right?

It is, man. And what's the actual handle?

Ethan Suplee.

Okay, perfect.

On either of them. But I won't— I don't pay attention to Twitter, so just Instagram, really.

Perfect, man. Dude, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

Tyler, thank you.