Kenn Perry: Sustainable Growth And Success | The Business Blast Podcast #493

Welcome to the Business Blast Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Wagner. This episode is brought to you by WagsMedia. WagsMedia provides you with everything you need to generate more customers and grow your brand. Head on over to wagsmedia.com, W-A-G-S-M-E-D-I-A dot com, to enter a contest where you can win a free, done-for-you custom website valued at $2,500 for a limited time only. Now let's jump into the episode. All right everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Business Blast Podcast. I'm your host Tyler Wagner. Today I have Ken Perry with us. He works with people and ventures with entrepreneurial mindsets. Looking to maximize their opportunities, and he provides a unique blend of coaching, business consultation, and organizational and leadership development services. He's also drawn to working with entrepreneurs launching startups and helping growth-stage companies implement the key people and business strategies essential to achieving sustainable growth and success. So welcome to the show, man.

Hey, thank you very much, Tyler. I'm really grateful to be here.

Of course, man. We're grateful to have you here. And we'll jump right into it, Ken. The first question that I have for you is, what is the best story from your life that has an underlying valuable message?

All right, so I'm gonna take you back to one of my startups earlier on. This was about 15 years ago. Just to give you a little context, we had a super cool crew of people and we were developing tools that help people design circuitry into an integrated circuit. And one of the things about that was that all of the people that sell the integrated circuits also sold their own tools, but it just turned out that ours were actually substantially better. Um, and I was in on the business side then, so I had built relationships with a lot of the company's key customers and their sales force. And it turned out that they were tired of us beating them on their own design benchmarks, and so they decided that they wanted to do an acquisition. So they approached our board and You know, with some consternation, we decided to entertain it because we didn't want to, quote unquote, go work for the man. That's why we spun out the startup. Yeah. So things go down the path and we're having a board meeting and just kind of set the stage. There's our chairman of the board, 3 other board members. There's my co-founding colleague Dave and myself in the room. And we go around and the first board member says, I think it's the perfect time. We should do the acquisition. Second board member says, I think the time is right, we should do the acquisition. Third board member, it's the perfect timing, we should do the acquisition. Dave says we shouldn't do it because if we wait another 60 to 45 days, we're going to get a much higher valuation for this company because we're hurting them right now. I chime in and I'm like, we are. Look at— here's all the data from their customers, here's the things. We should not sell today. We should ride it out for 60 more days, not because we wanted to pad our pockets, just because it would have been a higher valuation of the deal, would have meant more money for all the employees. So chairman of the board steps back from the table, looks around at everyone, he says, it's unanimous, we're gonna do the deal. And Dave and I looked at each other, and Dave is not one to mince words, and I'm like, what just happened? He said, we just got blanked. And the moral I took away from that story, which I carry with me today, is you always need to know, do you have a voice or do you have a vote? And so whenever, whenever there's a key decision that's going down, it's really important. Do I get to have a vote or do I just have a voice? Because I learned in that moment that we obviously didn't have a voice.

Definitely, man. Thanks for sharing that with us. Um, the next one I have for you is, what's the most valuable piece of information we should know that's within your expertise or industry?

Yeah, I think the one thing that, that I just come to know is that especially in this space that I'm in where you're doing a combination of coaching people on a personal level and advising people on a business level, and you're drawing on different methods and experience to help people get to wherever they want to be, is that there's no one-size-fits-all approach to anything. I mean, earlier in my career, I would come up with cute little acronyms and little models and do all these things. And I just realized that, at least for me, it just didn't work. So I leaned into two like solid beliefs that I have to drive my business. One is this very thing. There's no one-size-fits-all to anything. I walk into people and I just listen to them and figure out what it is that they really want to accomplish. And then my goal in every single client engagement is to actually work myself out of a job. One of my beliefs on my website is that, you know, I want to make sure that as soon as possible I can be no longer required, but if I'm desired, that's cool. So my goal is to build capacity and get out of there as soon as I possibly can. And I've always thought, man, with all these nonprofits that are focusing on different things, it's like, wouldn't it be super cool if you built into your strategy an end-of-life strategy? Because instead of further exacerbating the problem, you're actually focusing on solving it. So whenever I engage, I tell the people it's going to take 30 days, 45 days. At this point, you won't need me anymore. You're ready to go. And actually people really like it.

Yeah, man. So it's like, I like how Gary Vaynerchuk says, like, he's like, I'm trying to put myself out of business.

Right, yeah, totally.

Yeah, when you do that, then, you know, it ends up you gotta get like more business and then also you end up working harder. So now what's your best piece of like overall business advice? So you can go, you know, that route or if you want to kind of say like if somebody's just getting into the startup world, like what's maybe the first thing you tell them?

Yeah, here I would tell you this because it's, it's, it's the most important thing that I talk with anyone about, whether I'm trying to germinate a concept or whether I'm working with someone that does. It's like, know your audience, right? And really understand what it is you're going to bring to them, right? Whether you're bringing them a set of services or you're going to try to productize something or whatever you're going to do, a consulting thing, be really clear about who you're selling it to, And what is the value that you bring? And then I always back that up by saying, okay, are you bringing them oxygen or medication? Right? Because obviously, if I've got something that someone considers oxygen, I'm going to promote that one particular way. But most ventures are medication, right? Everybody talks about they want to go out and do these incredibly cool, disruptive, distracted things. And it's super seductive and they're super fun. They're also super hard. I mean, people have incremental minds, so people are much more willing to go down a medication route than the oxygen route just because of risk. And the other thing I tell people, and it's just, you know, it's amazing to me, is I hear so many companies that are saying, you know, well, we're gonna create a movement, or you see the job descriptions looking for someone that has experience building a grassroots movement. Gotta have a movement. And I'm sitting there thinking, dude, unless you're constipated, don't focus on a movement. Focus on understanding who your customers are and how you're going to get to them. You know, unless you're a political activist, a movement is going to do you no good. You need to build goodwill with your customer. And the only way you can do that is understanding what they really need and then determining whether you can do it. And it's really simple to say, but trust me, dude, it's hard. That's where people trip up.

Totally.

Yeah.

Well, I think they trip up, they get ahead of themselves because really, if you want a movement, then it starts by taking care of your customers. And there's obviously other things involved, but they're trying to jump past the customers and become this whole culture shift and movement. But just start with the customers and then it will gradually build out.

I'm totally with you. It's like I always tell people, the metaphor is, okay, don't start hollering your value props and your messaging through a bullhorn until you get someone to agree with them in a whisper, right? When you whisper them and they resonate, then you can magnify them. But if you go out and magnify the wrong thing, you've just spent so much time and money and now you have to turn things around. And that's just emotionally draining. And it's cash flow, right? It's expensive.

So the next one I have for you is if you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would that be?

That is super simple. If I could give my younger self one piece of advice, I would say, you know, I would pretend I was my grandpa and I would say, hey kid, sit down, stop being so defiant, and why don't you actually finish one of the 4 degrees you started instead of continually going off and starting companies and starting companies? I mean, that was just my thing. I mean, when I was a kid, school just wasn't for me. And it's not that I was some great visionary, amazing person. I mean, part of it is that I'm ADD and part of it was, you know, I was a full-blown capitalist. It's like, I'm making tons of money. And I'm making nothing to school.

Yeah.

And back in the day when I did it, like, to do that and to be an entrepreneur was much more of a rogue thing. Like, all my friends were like going to school and doing this stuff. They're like, why are you doing this? You know, you're going to end up on skid row. So it used to be rogue, and now today it's totally vogue, right? I mean, everyone's an entrepreneur. I'm like, cool, awesome. But back in the day, it wasn't, you know, I was fortunate enough later down the road that I was able to kind of tail that around and do some graduate work at Stanford and stuff. But, you know, I would just— I would say stay in school, get a degree, and then figure out how you're going to go, you know, change the world. That's what you want to do. Otherwise, just start a cool company and make some money.

And in your opinion, what's the key to happiness?

Uh, well, it's sort of a cliché, but what I always tell people is that you just have to understand that happiness is a choice and it's not a destination. And the quicksand that people get trapped in is they see other people that, you know, look happy. We can see all these awesome people with amazing brands on LinkedIn. We can always see these people. It's like, man, they just must be living the total life. I want to be like them. It's like, well, maybe you do, but maybe you don't. It's like, define what makes you happy. Go for that. Be yourself in the best way that you can, because you can always be yourself better than anyone else. And when you have a crappy day, but it's not a polyamorous thing, right? We all have crappy days and things that don't go well. It's like, you know, step back, accept the defeat, learn from the defeat, move forward from it, don't dwell on it. One of my things I tell people is, you know, you can't live life in the rearview mirror. There's a reason the windshield's bigger.

Yeah, I like that. Um, and what's the best book that you've read and what's the number one thing you learned from that?

All right, well, actually, I'm gonna slam two at you. So the best book I've ever read is actually the Bible, but I'm not gonna take you down like the religious spiritual thing. What I think is this most amazing, often untold stories in the New Testament is the apostles were like the most amazing entrepreneurs ever. I mean, they're guys that like left everything behind, followed a completely disruptive new way of life. I mean, and you're always talking about people that are willing to pick a hill to die on. These guys actually picked hills to die on and actually did it. And I don't want to bore you with all the details, but if you look at, you know, what Saul did to become Paul, he was like the most amazing pivot in the world. And then Peter was one of the greatest CEOs of all time. We know who the CEO is. And it just is amazing to me because I'm always like Really drawn to leaders that have an impact after they're gone. I look at that, so let's just see if like Facebook or Google, this might be blasphemous, LinkedIn, are they going to be around in 2,000 years? I don't think so. So that's the thing. And I want to give you one more. This is the best book that anyone can read. It's called Leadership and Self-Deception. It's by the Arbinger Institute. It's all about how we as individuals Actually get in places of self-deception, which are like assumptions that we sit in with ourselves and other people and how we actually end up betraying our core value sets and how that ripples out to the way that we treat people in teams. Super easy read, paperback. You know, when you post the podcast thing, I'll put a link to it if people want to see it. I'm just telling you, Tyler, I use this with my executive teams at a couple of different places. We read the book and we went through and it completely changed the way that the team interacted and it completely changed the level at which we could perform. It's an amazing book. Everyone should read it.

Also, can you say the title one more time?

It's called Leadership and Self-Deception.

Okay.

By the Arbinger Institute.

Perfect.

Okay. I really rarely say that. I'm like, everyone should read it.

No, no, it's not. I love like how the topic is because I think just even in general, It's very odd how we can kind of deceive ourselves in different situations. Like, I don't know, I just think that's a pretty interesting topic in general.

So I would just tell you, just to build on what you said, because it's really wise, is I would say at the root of 90% of the situations that I get brought into, there are two things. One, assumptions, which are based on people's interpretations of other people that are either unspoken or spoken. Or poor communication, which piggybacks on top of those things. And when I feel all those things back, it's like, you know, if you would just learn to get rid of these assumptions and you would just learn how to communicate, which, by the way, has to be built on trust. Once you get past those things, then things take off. And this book can teach people how to do it. It's friggin awesome.

Awesome. I'm definitely— I'm going to read it. Is it on audiobook too?

I believe it is. Yeah. You can just search for— search for it. And I did it like yesterday. You can get it at any of the online sellers. Kindle versions, PDFs, audiobooks, everything.

Awesome, man. I'm getting it on Audible. Cool, awesome. Um, and the next one is, what's your favorite quote and why?

Uh, actually, my favorite quote is by Einstein, and it's that no problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that we created it. Kind of dovetails on what we just said. Um, can't tell you how many times I've been in situations where I get trapped in the quicksand of you know, thinking we can't solve it, but we've been trying the same approach time and time and time again. And when you just get trapped in that, you have to, you have to have someone that's part of this problem-solving process say, we need to step back and we need to look at it differently. I'll tell you a really funny story about years back when I was working at the same company I was referring to. We had just hired this awesome new computer science intern, you know, sharp as a whip, And but we were super duper busy and I would love to say this was some great act of like incredible knowledge vision, but it was just, I was lazy. And we just said, well, what's he going to do for the next 3 weeks until we ship the release? And then we talked about it and said, well, let's give him that algorithmic problem. You guys have been working on it for 6 months. He'll never finish it. So we gave it to him. Which I know, I mean, that's pretty cruel, right? But so we gave it to him. And like 2 weeks later, he comes and knocks on our door. He goes, I solved it. We're like, no, you didn't. He said, yeah, I solved it. And we're like, oh my gosh, he actually solved it. And so the beauty of that was he didn't know it was hard. He didn't know how much we struggled. He just looked at it and he solved it. So that's why I love that quote. It's like the same people that created the problem are rarely the people that solve it. And I'm paraphrasing it, but that's why I love that quote.

Yes, man. Dude, thank you so much for coming on. Uh, the last question I have for you before we let you go is where is the best place for people to find and connect with you online?

Yeah, there's two things they can just look for. Ken H. Perry on LinkedIn. That's how you get to my profile. You can also look for my company at www.testamentventures.com. And I'd love to hear from people or hear any comments. And I just want to say thanks. I really enjoyed being on your show, man. Thanks very much.

Of course, dude. Thank you for coming on. We appreciate it as well.

All right. Have a great afternoon. The podcast you just heard was published with Anchor. Got something you want to say to the creator of this show? Send them a voice message using the Anchor app, free for iOS and Android.