Kyle Hegarty, managing director of TSL's Leadership Nomad Group, explains why 70% of overseas ventures fail due to cultural misunderstandings. He recounts a Western company that tried to localize Asian marketing by just adding a dragon, and argues that data-driven behavioral profiling beats gut instinct when building cross-cultural teams.
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Alright everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Business Blast podcast. I'm your host Tyler Wagner and today's sponsor is Flipboard. Flipboard curates the world's stories so you can be smarter in your work, life, and play. Choose from thousands of topics to personalize Flipboard and get the latest stories from the best publishers and experts delivered to you 24/7. So You can get started now at flipboard.com. And now, let's jump into the episode. All right, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Business Blast Podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Wagner. Today, I have Kyle Hegarty. He is the managing director for TSL's Leadership Nomad Group, where he helps companies improve how they sell into new markets and how they build outstanding cross-cultural teams. So welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks, Tyler. I'm a big fan of your project here, so I'm happy to be a part of it.
Thank you so much, man. Grateful to have you on. So as I'm sure you know then, the first question we ask on this show is, what is the best story from your life that has an underlying valuable message?
Sure. So one of the main stories I always think about is it has to do with my experience with Western companies and watching them rush into these new emerging markets. So, you know, what happens when they underestimate the local and regional differences? My company does marketing campaigns for Western companies as they grow around Asia, and back in 2006 or so, I was new, just moved to Singapore, and I had this client from the US who wanted me to send out a bunch of his marketing material. He was selling software. The wording that he used was all using American spelling, which again, easy to change. But the problem was that the stuff was covered in images of baseball, people playing baseball. And I had to explain to him, you know, people over here don't care about baseball. They don't play the game. They don't even understand what you're talking about. And he was getting pretty frustrated to the point where he said, you know, why don't you just slap a friggin' dragon on this stuff and make it Asian? And it was such a shocking statement. It was— and it kind of took me by surprise. And it made me realize, like, how many companies in one way or another do exactly this. They just slap dragons on things thinking it's going to, in this case, make it Asian or, you know, localize it. And of course it doesn't work. And it made me, you know, look at new companies differently and also my own company and the mistakes that I was making. So I ended up building an entire consulting division focused on this, focused specifically on the cross-cultural piece of this.
Good. And then what is the most valuable piece of information we should know that's within your expertise or industry?
Yeah, so there's a bunch of studies that say that up to 70% of overseas business ventures fail due to some type of cross-cultural issues. And when you've got clients and new offices overseas, this is obviously a big problem. I think most people think that you just have to muddle through this stuff and figure it out as you go. I don't think a lot of companies can afford that anymore. So my big idea is that there are smarter and not such expensive ways to actually minimize and figure this stuff out, especially the cross-cultural piece. To me, it's about using data. There's a ton of this data out there that you can use to understand how people communicate, how they build relationships differently, how they sell differently. How they're motivated. And so if you can use the data that helps define all these differences, then you can come up with smart ways to manage it better. So again, I would say that the big idea here is that if you're struggling with these cross-cultural misunderstandings, there's definitely hope. You don't have to, you don't have to wrestle through it.
And then what is your best piece of overall business advice? So not necessarily industry specific.
Yeah, this might sound counterintuitive, but here it is. Don't trust your gut. So, yeah, when you're working overseas or when you're doing overseas deals, oftentimes I think our instincts are based on the things that we're used to, right? Like on what we're surrounded by, what's familiar. But, when we're talking about foreign things, foreign is unfamiliar. And so, oftentimes it's our gut instincts that get us in trouble. We're guided by what we're used to rather than now what's in front of us. So this is a tough idea for some people, but I think it's worth thinking about.
And then if you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would that be?
I would tell myself to make a better effort to understand what makes me tick. There's behavior styles out there that have been defined You can look at your strengths and weaknesses that each of those bring. And so I've become a fan of some of those behavioral profiling systems that are out there. I think that they can really help people get to know themselves better as well as the people that they work with. So I wish I had learned that earlier.
And then in your opinion, what is the key to happiness?
Do you have kids?
I do not.
Okay. So you've probably heard this before. I mean, everybody who has kids either says or thinks this, but they kind of will say something like, "Of course, you love your kids, but it doesn't mean you always have to like them." I think the same could be said about a career. So, of course, you want to find something that you love, a topic that you're passionate about, something that gives you a sense of mission. But to me, happiness is about being comfortable with the fact that you're not always going to like it. And if you can figure that balance out, you might just be happy.
And then, what is the best book that you've read and what's the number one thing you learned from that?
All right. So, this isn't the best book. This is probably the most influential book for me. It was Tom Friedman's The World Is Flat. Now, this came out a long time ago back in 2004 or so. Basically, he's arguing that— about all the positive powers of globalization and the interconnected world that we're heading into. It was actually one of the reasons I ended up selling everything I owned and moving to Asia. The problem with the book in hindsight is that a lot of what he said turned out to be a bunch of BS. Just didn't work that way. The world's not flat at all. So I don't think you need to go out and read this thing, but you've got growing populism and isolationism, but at the same time, he was right. You've got global business that's more interconnected than ever before. So I find that book so interesting because now the question is, where do we go from here? How do you develop skills that get you through a world that's fractured but also global at the same time? So that would be my weird anti-recommended book. I love that.
And then what is your favorite quote and why?
I know, these are getting weird. Okay, well, here's one other one. So George Bernard Shaw supposedly said this, but I can't prove it that he did. I can't figure out if he actually said it. He gets credit. And it's this: "The problem with communication is the illusion that it is taking place." Mm, yes, I've heard that. Yeah, kind of a fun one.
Yeah, I like that one a lot. Actually, oh my gosh, I actually, this is crazy, a little embarrassing. I'm pretty sure the first book I wrote, I think that that is one of the quotes I put in my book, but I wrote it 6 years ago, so I forget now.
Yep, yep, yep, yep. It's a great quote. And every time I see these things, I look, I have to go, well, wait a minute, did he or she really say it? And so you go down that rabbit hole. So I haven't been able to figure out if he actually ever said this thing, but he gets credit for it. So history's given him credit. If you published it, It's now fact.
Yes. Dude, that is awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. The last one I got for you before we let you go is where can our audience best find you online?
Yeah, most of our material ideas, helpful ideas, would be at leadershipnomad.com. So that's a good place to find some other podcasts and videos and some other ideas.
