In this Business Blast Podcast episode, host Tyler Wagner interviews Mark Horstman, co‑founder of the Manager Tools podcast. Horstman shares a personal story about his West Point roommate, emphasizing that relationships are the foundation of effective management—a principle he calls Horseman's First Law. He argues that much of the popular management advice found in the press is misleading, especially regarding millennials, feedback, and cultural assumptions, and asserts that management is not hard when you know the right practices, such as regular one‑on‑ones. Horstman advises listeners not to disdain workplace politics but to understand and navigate it, noting that politics are simply relationships with a negative label. He discusses happiness as a personal, internal choice, another of his Horseman's Laws. The conversation turns to his favorite book, Peter Drucker’s The Effective Executive, from which he learned that effectiveness can be taught and that managers are paid to do what is necessary for sustainable, ethical organizational success. Horstman also shares a lengthy military‑inspired quote from Stephen Vincent Benet, illustrating the challenges of moving people like wooden blocks on a map. Finally, he directs listeners to the Manager Tools podcast and website for more resources.
Chapters
Welcome to the Business Blast podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Wagner. This episode is brought to you by Authors Unite. Authors Unite provides you with all the resources you need to become a successful author. You can learn more about Authors Unite and join the free community at authorsunite.com. Now let's jump into the episode.
All right everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Business Blast Podcast. I'm your host Tyler Wagner. Today I have Mark Horstman with us. He is the co-founder of Manager Tools, the number one business podcast in the world. So welcome to the show, Mark.
Thanks, Tyler.
Of course, man. Thank you for joining us. We'll dive in. The first question I have for you, Mark, is what is the best story from your life that has an underlying valuable message?
My first roommate at the US Military Academy at West Point, John Hoffman, I helped him get his first corporate job about 5 or 6 years later, and he later became my first corporate consulting client. We are still close friends. Relationships matter. It's all about people.
And what is the most valuable piece of information we should know that's within your expertise or industry?
Everything you know or are reading about management in popular press is wrong, misleading, and hurting your career. Commonly accepted knowledge about millennials, giving feedback to people who work for you, other cultures, and how organizations work are demonstrably false. Management Isn't hard either if you know what you're doing. And if you want to know what to do, it's basically take two one-on-ones and call me in the morning.
And what is your best piece of overall business advice?
I mentioned it earlier, it's all about people, which is Horseman's First Law. Relationships between staff and colleagues and so on, and customers and vendors and, and partners. Relationships matter way more than products or services. And if any of your audience wants a copy of Horseman's Laws, just send me mail at mahorseman@manager-tools.com and I'll send them a digital version.
Amazing. Yeah, and I couldn't agree more. Relationships are number one. Um, and if you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would that be?
I would say actually two. I'm gonna beg for two. First, don't disdain politics. You don't have to play politics in order to be aware of and avoid being hurt by politics in your organization. There's a saying, the definition of conflict is two human beings in the same county. And then the definition of politics is three human beings in the same county. You can't avoid politics in organizational life. It's normal. Politics are just relationships with a bad name. So don't play it, but understand it and build relationships. The other thing I would say is, by the way, Mark, when you were 25, you didn't really know anything very important. I love it.
And in your opinion, what is the key to happiness?
Deciding to be happy. Happiness is an inside job. There are exceptions, of course, but for most of us, it's a choice we make. How you feel is always your fault. That's another Horseman's Law. And you need to make the choice to find the good.
And what is the best book that you've read and what was the number one thing you learned from that?
The Effective Executive by Peter Drucker, the greatest management book ever written. It came out 50 years ago. I offered thanks to it with the title of my book, The Effective Manager. What I learned was that effectiveness is not only required of professional managers and executives, but it can also be learned and practiced and taught. Many people mistakenly believe you get paid to do what you like, but you don't get paid to do what you like. You get paid to do what is necessary for organizational success. Ethical, sustainable organizational success. Personal choices matter less and less the greater responsibility you have for other people.
And what is your favorite quote and why?
It's a long one. If you take a flat map and move wooden blocks upon it strategically, the thing looks well, the blocks behave as they should. The science of war is moving live men like blocks. And getting the blocks into pla— into place at a fixed moment. But it takes time to mold your men into blocks, and flat maps turn into country where creeks and gullies hamper your wooden squares. They stick in the brush, they are tired and rest, they straggle after ripe blackberries. You cannot lift them up in your hand and move them. It is all so clear in the maps, so clear in the mind, but the orders are slow. The men in the blocks are slow to move. When they start, they take too long on the way, and the general loses his stars, and the block men die in unstrategic defiance of martial law, as they are still used to just being men and not block parts.
That is fire, dude.
That is Stephen Vincent Benet from John Brown's Body.
Yeah, that is Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that and everything else in this interview. The last question I have for you before we let you go is, where's the best place for people to find you online?
Listen to Manager Tools, our podcast, through iTunes or Google Play. Come to manager-tools.com or email me at mahorseman@manager-tools.com.
Perfect, man. Thank you again for coming on. We appreciate it.
My pleasure, Tyler. Tyler Wagner was a delight.
The podcast you just heard was recorded with Anchor. If you want to make your own, download the Android or iOS app completely free from anchor.fm/podcast. That's anchor.fm/podcast.
