Mark Podolsky: DIRT RICH | The Tyler Wagner Show #1110

All right everyone, welcome back to another episode. Today we have Mark Podolsky with us, so welcome to the show, man.

Tyler Wagner, it's an honor and a pleasure.

Thank you. Thank you, man. Dude, I know. Um, I, uh, I guess first question for you, tell us a little bit more about you and what you got going on.

Yeah, yeah, so I'm a professional land investor. and I've been doing it full-time since 2000. If you want, I can just tell you my origin story.

Yeah, yeah.

So if we rewind the tape to 2000, I was a miserable, micromanaged, 45-minute commute to work and back investment banker specializing in mergers and acquisitions with private equity groups. And Tyler, it got so bad for me, I wouldn't get the Sunday blues anticipating Monday coming around. I'd get the Friday blues anticipating the weekend going by really fast, work on Monday. So my firm hires this guy, and he's telling me that as a side hustle, he's buying land pennies on the dollar, he's flipping them online, and he's making a 300% return on his money. And I'm looking at companies all day long, and a great company— great— has 15% EBITDA margins or free cash flow. Average company's 10%. I'm looking at companies all day long less than 10%, so of course I don't believe him. So I got $3,000 saved up for car repairs, and I go to New Mexico with him to a tax deed auction. I do exactly what he tells me to do. I buy 10 half-acre parcels, an average price of $300 each. I flip them online and they all sell for an average price of $1,200 each. It worked. So I took all that money, I went to another auction. This is where I live in Arizona. And again, it's 2000, there's no one in the room. I'm buying up lots and acres for nothing. I sell all that land, I made over $90,000 cash. So I go to my wife and she's pregnant. I said, honey, I'm gonna quit my job and become a full-time land investor. She said, absolutely not. Okay, okay. So it took 18 months for the land investing income to exceed the investment banking income, and then I quit I've been doing it full-time ever since. I've done over 6,000 transactions and counting and absolutely love it.

That is crazy. Yeah, when somebody says 300% return, that does sound like a too good to be true thing. So that's— but it— so, okay, I guess first question for you, um, just to like have a full understanding, uh, and maybe this is like a funny question, but have they all— I'm assuming there has to be like sometimes it doesn't work out, right? Like out of those 600, I think you said 600.

Yeah. Yeah, you think, like, when did I lose money?

Yeah, yeah, like, what was the terrible deal?

So, okay, you're not gonna believe me, and it kind of sounds ridiculous to say, yeah, but I've never lost money on a deal.

That's great.

I'll walk you through the model and kind of show you why I haven't.

Okay.

And then, you know, I've done some bad deals, but because we have a 300% margin of safety, it's really, really hard to lose money doing it the way that I do it. So Tyler, where, where do you live?

Uh, but Miami, and actually right now I'm in Colombia though, South America.

No kidding?

Awesome.

I just hired a guy from Colombia. Nice. Amazing. Um, it looks beautiful there. So, but I'll assume you're in the States. You live in Miami and let's say you own 5 acres of raw land where I live in Arizona, right? And you owe $200 in back taxes. So you're advertising two important things to me. Number one, you have no emotional attachment to that raw land. You're in Florida, the property's in Arizona. And number two, you're distressed financially in some weird way because you haven't paid your property taxes. And you know, when we don't value something, we don't pay for it. And so the county treasurer keeps sending you notices saying, Tyler, if you don't pay your property taxes, you're gonna lose that parcel to a tax deed or a tax lien investor. So all I'm gonna do is look at the comparable sales on your 5-acre parcel for the last 12 to 18 months. I'm gonna take the lowest comparable sale. Let's say it's $10,000 and divide by 4, and that's gonna give me what Warren Buffett would call a 300% margin of safety. So I'll send you an offer of $2,500. Now you accept it because for you, $2,500 is better than nothing. In reality, about 3 to 5% of people are going to accept my quote unquote top dollar offer. But now that you've accepted it, I have to go through due diligence or in-depth research. I gotta confirm you still own the property. I have to make sure the back taxes are only $200. I have to make sure there's been no breaks in the chain of title, no liens or encumbrances. And so I outsource all that title work to a team in Jamaica that has access to an American title company. It costs about $11. Now, if I was investing more than $5,000, I'm not taking any title risk and I'd go traditionally through a title company. Or maybe an abstractor. But let's assume everything checks out, which the majority of the time it does. And so I buy the property from you for $2,500. Now I own it. Now I'm gonna sell it and I'm gonna make a cash flow like a rental home. So Tyler, in 30 days or less, by the way. So I have a built-in best buyer. Do you know who it is? No, I don't.

I don't know who it is.

The neighbors, the neighbors. So I'm going to send out neighbor letters saying, hey, here's your opportunity, protect your privacy, protect your views, know your neighbors. So oftentimes the neighbors will buy. If the neighbors don't buy, I'll go to my buyers list. The buyers list doesn't buy, and I'll do all this at the same time, by the way. I'll go to, um, a little website you may have heard of, it's called Craigslist. It's the 10th or 15th most trafficked website in the United States. I'll go to one I know you've heard of called Meta or Facebook, buy-sell groups in the marketplace. And then I'll go to the lands, landmoto.com, landandfarm.com, landsamerica.com, land.com, landflip.com, landhub.com. These are platforms where people buy and sell raw land. But the way that I'm gonna do it is I'm gonna make it irresistible. So I'm gonna price that 5-acre parcel I just bought from you for $2,500. I'm gonna ask for a $2,500 down payment, and then I'll make it a car payment. So $2,500 down, $289 a month at 9% interest for the next 84 months. So I get my money out on the down payment, and then I'm gonna get $289 a month and 9% interest the next 84 months. Tyler, no renters. No rehabs, no renovations, no rodents. And because I'm not dealing with a tenant, I'm exempt from Dodd-Frank, RESPA, and the SAFE Act, all this owner's real estate legislation. So then it's a simple game. Can I create enough land notes where my passive income exceeds my fixed expenses? And now I'm working because I want to, not because I have to.

That is amazing, dude. Yeah. Okay. I could see how this would work. So All right, let me poke at this a little bit. Um, so basically the reason— I mean, there's multiple reasons why this works, but, um, the first thing is you're finding people or maybe companies that have land and you're able to see that, you know, in some fashion— and correct me if I'm wrong— but in some fashion they are financially maybe, maybe not like distressed, but like they are open to taking. I, I guess where, I, I guess where my question is here is, why is it, uh, unless it's that thing that I'm going towards there, why is it that the person you're, uh, buying it from is only valuing it here? And I, I think you kind of pointed out why, because, you know, they live here, it's over here, so they don't care about it. But this other person is like valuing it so much more because they're it's their neighboring land. But I guess the question is, like, in general, isn't there just like an actual price or understanding of value of the land, like a house or something? Or is that not a thing with land?

No, it's the great thing about land and the terrible thing about land. It's an inefficient market. So, huh, no one really understands the value of their land. You can't go on Zillow You can't go to MLS and figure out land values, especially rural land. There's just not a long sales, uh, a sale trail, right? Yeah, a house, right? There could be 1,000 house sales in this general area. We get an idea of comparable sales. This one piece of rural land might sell every 10, 20 years.

That's crazy.

That's so crazy. So it's, it's kind of similar, like If I made an offer of 25 cents, 3 cents a dollar for everything in your garage, it's like— yeah, because people are like, I'm not using it, I'm paying property taxes for it. Yeah, yeah. So that's an asset, it's not a liability.

Yeah. So it's the, the value— because there is no like Zillow for this— that the value is really to the per— because I totally get what you're saying. I was just thinking about like my parents' house that they live in Pennsylvania. They have 4 acres. Like, if there was an opportunity for them to buy the surrounding acreage, like they would totally— I'm not saying they would definitely do it, but they would totally have interest in it, like absolutely. And the person that lives, you know, 10 states away, there is no emotional attachment to the land. It doesn't matter. So that's really freaking weird, actually, when you think about that. Um, the value is like, it's just dependent on the person that is looking at it, essentially.

Like, truly what a buyer and a seller agree to. Yeah.

Okay, so, okay, so 6,000. So I guess next question for you, and then I want to get into, uh, just, you know, other like personal things and stuff, but, uh, not too personal, don't worry. But, uh, basically with this, so you've done 6,000. I'm assuming you like have employees now and like scaled it. Like, you've done 6,000 of these your own?

Yeah, I mean, you know, my ownership, right? My team works it. So Tyler, the last thing I want anyone listening to this is like, oh, this is another job, right? So 90% of this business is automated with inexpensive virtual assistants, software on the front end, software on the back end, and that's it.

That's amazing. Yeah, no, no, I, I, I feel you. My, my company has a lot of virtual assistants too, and software, so Okay, so with your— I know you have a book. Uh, when did your book come out? It's called Dirt Rich.

Dirt Rich, that was 2018. I've got a new book coming out, Dirt Rich 2: The Plot Thickens, how to scale your land business.

Okay, so first one is like starting it and then second one is scaling it.

Okay, right, right.

Um, now do you— because I could actually see a lot of investors being interested— do you ever like take on outside money, or you— I guess you don't really need to. It wouldn't really make sense for you.

Yeah, I mean, I, I do because we do larger deals. So, okay, if you're an accredited investor and you're listening to this, you can have a one-to-one conversation with me about it for sure.

Yeah, gotcha. Okay, so, so it can be possible on larger ones, uh, but these books, the first one, it'll teach you how to actually start something like this yourself. And I guess, do you have like any courses and stuff as well? I guess what— I guess my next question is leading to—

yeah, yeah. So my whole mission is to help everybody solve not just their money problems but also their time problems. And I want to help everyone along the socioeconomic spectrum, right? So if you've got more time than money, I've got free information for you to help you. If you're a doctor, lawyer, and your money problems are solved but not your time problems, I can help you. And everyone in between. So that's really, really the whole mission, because once somebody solves not just their money problems, also their time problems, and they're totally free, they can move up Maslow's hierarchy of needs into self-actualization and really figure out what's their true purpose in life.

100%. It's so— I actually always say you're one connection away, right, from like just everything changing. And this came, like you said earlier, it was like a friend of yours That was set.

Yeah.

And then that's so crazy. One person changed everything. Um, and just to be clear, the way you can help the doctors and lawyers, that would be like the investing path, right? Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Um, and so a little curious because, uh, my— a lot of my audience, they're business owners and then they're also authors because my main company is like an author, uh, helping people with books and stuff. So with your, uh, first book, like, what was the experience like? Do you have any just input on like the writing, publishing, marketing? Just, excuse me, any insights on it?

Yeah, I mean, I, I spoke that book. Um, I used Scribe, and I thought it was a great experience until the second book. I paid them money to do it again, and then they are terrible, right?

Oh yeah, I know something. Yeah, I think they, I think they're under new ownership now.

Yeah. Yeah. But they never came back to me. They never made it right.

Oh.

And so just out of principle, I wouldn't use them. But the experience of writing a book is really interesting because at some point when you're done editing it, you have to lock the manuscript and it's the most crazy fearful experience where you're like, I can't, change another word of this, and, and that's it. And then it's going out in the world. And, uh, so that experience I think is, is really interesting, just the, the going through it. And then, you know, figuring out, okay, how do I get this into people's hands, is, uh, is a whole other adventure as well.

Yeah. And I think, you know, what's crazy about, like you said there, is I, I remember when I wrote my first book, it's just like you— the amount of times you read over it before it publishes? Like, you like overanalyze everything. It's so— and there's always— I think what I've come to realize, even if you have the best editors, best writers in the world, there is always going to be a few mistakes. It's just impossible. Like, it's just, it's just the way it is. Even in like traditionally published, like, you know, most famous authors in the world, they, they have it too. So is your, um— so right now, is like your core method of marketing the books, is it like podcasts is one? Is there anything else you're doing? This is just out of curiosity.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I've got, I've got a team, so.

Okay, cool.

Um, in the beginning, we, it was all organic, you know. The podcast was probably the number one way of getting the book into people's hands, and then Amazon as well, uh, and then a free book plus shipping funnel, uh, with Facebook. And, and that went really well too.

Got it. So let's, uh, let's actually dive in a little bit deeper into the details of this. And obviously I think people, they should just, you know, get your books because that's probably going to be their best path, uh, to doing this if they want to do it themselves, or just invest with you, uh, if they already have money and they don't have time. Um, but like, what would be the, the first step? So I'm gonna say like— well, I'll just let you answer. There's no need for me to assume. What would be the first?

So the first step is, you know, being in reality with the market. So, right, I mean, no offense to your parents, Tyler, but no one wakes up and thinks to themselves, boy, I'd like some raw land in Pennsylvania today, unless you live in Pennsylvania.

True.

We want to go to the Sunshine States. We want to look at Florida, Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, California, a little bit in the Northwest, Oregon, Washington, and some hot spots maybe in the Midwest as well, some nice tree, pretty areas. So we want to get our biggest buyer pool possible, and it's also going to be the safest as far as any environmental issues, right? I don't want to buy New Jersey or Ohio or these heavily industrial areas and buying in, you know, what could be an environmental issue with epa.gov. So you want to look at, like, just to make sure you're on your due diligence, you go to epa.gov, Superfund, make sure you're not buying in a Superfund site. So, um, but the areas that we look at, there's no issues with that anyways. So the first thing that is county research, we want to make sure we're in a good market, and the best way to assess that is Where are the other land investors going? So you can go to a website like landmoto.com and see, oh, here's where people are buying in these states. I might want to go there as well. Well, then the second question is, how much budget do I have? That's also going to determine where and how much I can buy, because something magical happens when you buy 5 to 7 properties. So if you don't have 5 to 7 properties in your budget, you want to figure out a way to get that in your budget. Now, there's really inexpensive properties out there as well, but you want to be able to get 5 to 7. And if you can't get that, who can you partner with that has the money so that you have the knowledge and skill, someone else can provide the money? But I'd say that's the first step. uh, is doing it. And one of the most important steps, because if you don't get your county research right, you could have the best negotiation skills, the best buying skills, the best due diligence skills, the best marketing sales skills, the best selling skills— it doesn't matter if you're in a market no one wants to be in. So that's the first key.

Yeah, no, I can tell you from being in Miami as long as I have, it's insane what, uh— and I don't know about the land, but I'm sure that's gone way up too. But just like the rental properties and stuff, I think it's like at least doubled, maybe 3x in the last 7 years. It's absolutely insanity. Um, and that's like specifically like city area, but I'm assuming the surrounding has also seen a pretty big increase. Um, what is your— and maybe it's all of them, but is there one in particular right now that you're most focused on? Or maybe that's like a secret you want to keep?

My counties? Yeah, yeah.

Or not like county, but like maybe state more, like Florida, Texas.

I would say, you know, I really like Florida, I like Texas, Colorado. I like them all. I mean, look, anytime I can buy any asset 25, 30 cents a dollar, I like it.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And then, yeah, I guess it all ends up working out because, I mean, you have like 30 backup plans for selling it, so it's just like there's no I don't, I don't know. Um, and are you saying too the 5 to 7 number because that's when you'll, you'll actually see like a difference in your passive income, right? Like if you have—

yeah, I mean, moves the needle. It also shows the market you're, you're a land investor.

Yeah.

Um, it's like, you know, going to Chick-fil-A, they don't have any chicken. So yeah, you want to have land to offer, you know, and I just think that it It's just weird. It's hard— it's kind of not to get too woo-woo about it, but when you only have one piece of land, it's, it's just a different experience for the, for the buyer, if you will, than selling, yeah, say, 5 to 7 parcels. I don't know, I could speculate why, but I, I don't know.

I think it's just a proven track record, right? I mean, it's same thing, like, one of the things I tell people a lot when they're like starting a business, I say like do, and obviously this is like different because you actually have to like buy something, uh, but say you have like a service business, right? Like you're coaching people or something, like give it away for free to people, like the first 5 people, just to get testimonials. And then now you have testimonials, and then you're selling after that is going to be dramatically easier than it was before. Because if you have nothing to represent or no testimonial, then people have no clue if you can actually do what you're saying you can do. So I think that makes sense. So just curious on like personal. So now I'm assuming now you have, you still work somewhat, but your team manages, I'm assuming like 90% of everything. So what did you discover? And maybe it is helping people with this, but when you first got enough money to cover your expenses and had that freedom, what was your realization of like what your purpose was?

Yeah, I mean, I think my purpose was to really serve, and it's, it's really gratifying because land business is great, but no one ever called me and said, hey Mark, you changed my life with this land purchase. It's not life-changing. When someone learns this business and their passive income exceeds their fixed expenses, or their passive income allows their spouse to quit the job that they hate and spend more time with their children, or they get that peace of mind that they know the mortgage is covered no matter what with this passive income. Everything in their life changes. So to be that sort of that pebble in the pond and make that impact and have it ripple out in someone's life exponentially, um, has been the most gratifying thing for me. Professionally because, like, it's incredible. Like, I get this gratitude every day and, um, it feels just absolutely amazing. But I would say that— was I intentional with it? It's sort of just, you know, teaching. It kind of just fell in my lap. I got a call from a guy named Tori one day, and he's like, hey, you know, I'm on your website, would you teach me how to do what you do? I'm like, I don't really teach it. He's like, well, what if I pay you this? I'm like, okay.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, my, my wife's like, well, why would you teach anyone this? You're going to create your own competition. And so I'm like, ah, good point. So I put on my investment banker hat I thought, well, how big is this market? And there's billions of acres of land for sale in this country, just this country. And so you, me, a million people can be in this niche, and we're all going to run out of money before we run out of deal flow. And the truth is, there's no big money in it. There's no private equity groups, there's no hedge funds, and you couldn't think of a more boring niche. You won't go on HGTV with a DIY network because he flipped this land. The before pictures were all land, the after pictures were all land.

That would be funny, just like a bunch of drone shots of stuff. It's like, oh, look at the bush, right?

Yeah, exactly. So, uh, so I felt very comfortable in, in teaching it, and, and, and then it's just sort of gone from there, and I, I love that.

And do you do— I'm assuming, uh, yes, but just curious because based on your example, it seemed like it was more for like personal, uh, people to like buy their neighboring land. But do you also do it for— because I feel like for businesses, that, that would be a big thing too. And like, that rent could be like— I mean, unless you, you could sell it to them, but I think in some cases it could just be a straight-on rental, you know, like a business wants to build on your land and rent. Or you don't like that?

Or tell me, I don't want to be— I don't want to deal with anything physical, me personally. I don't want to develop you know, 80% of developers go bankrupt.

Um, ah, okay, you're saying so if they—

I just, I just— that's why the name of the book is Dirt Rich, because I just want to sell the dirt. I don't want to go vertical with anything.

Got it. Yeah, I love the simplicity, man. I— to me, the most beautiful thing ever is just a business that is like very simple and just produces cash flow. I mean, what's better than that? Uh, I think a lot of times that's where people end up failing is they, they think they need to add more things or make things more complicated. And where you obviously succeed is you found one thing that worked and you just did it 6,000+ times. Like, that's—

I'm an inch wide, a mile deep.

Yeah, that's— um, so now, like, with all this freedom, like, what do you do normally with your, your spare time? I actually think for me, uh, and I don't do anything with lamb, but somewhat of a similar scenario. Like, once the business became successful, had all this free time, and then that does sometimes become like another problem in itself, you know? Like, what do you do with all the time? So now I guess, you know, a lot of your time's going back into helping others with the books, training, and stuff. But in like, I guess, actual free time outside of work, what do you got going on?

Yeah, I mean, you know, I've got my, my routine for sure.

And so what's that like?

You know, I wake up and I do breathwork, I meditate. If I can go to the infrared sauna and the cold plunge, I'll do that. I'll work out. So I really wanna take care of me first and then, and then sort of get to work the way I structure my week. Is Mondays and Fridays are my sort of my thinking days. And I don't take, you know, I say never, I wish I never, but I rarely take a call or a meeting on Mondays and Fridays. So those, those are just the calendars open. Tuesdays are typically podcast recording days where I'll record my podcast. Wednesdays are team meeting days and Thursdays are client meeting days. So I sort of theme the week, but, you know, my whole goal is, you know, um, you know, I, I, I really want to just be a good ancestor. And so in order to do that, um, you know, I just think about, like, you know, what do I value out of life, and, you know, what do I want to do. And it's, you know, I want to have, you know, a calm mind, a fit body, a house full of love. Uh, I heard a quote today that I really loved. Oh, I gotta read it to you.

Yeah.

Um, I was asking a guy, like, I'm like, you know, what's really, you know, most important to you? It's like, the people who know me best love me the most. And I thought, oh, I'm stealing that. So I want the people who know me the best to love me the most. And I think to work on those relationships is so important, and everything's a relationship. I mean, it's all relationships, right? The most important relationship is your relationship with yourself, and that sort of ripples out. So for me to have that time freedom and money freedom to, to work on that, I think really is a huge bonus to my life where if I want to travel— I love to travel— I'm going to travel and I can do it. But I also love to work. I'm like never going to retire. I want to be useful. I want to serve. I'm not the type of person that wants to just spend all day at a golf course or country club. But you know, on those days where I don't want to do anything, I don't have to do anything. I like that too.

Yeah, no, 100%.

I love it.

It's— yeah, I structure a little bit similar where like I batch everything on Wednesdays, so like I keep the other 6 days open and Wednesdays I just, I basically cram everything in from like 7:00 AM until 9:00 PM sometimes. And I just go really hard one day. I still work on the other days too somewhat, but it's not like, I guess, interactive. It's more like focused work and brainstorming and stuff like that. And I think that in itself is actually a huge tip because I notice a lot of people, uh, cause I like schedule on people's links a lot of times. They just have their whole week open. And to me, I don't know how you can get like focused work done like that. Like if your Monday through Friday is just like 5 calls a day scattered everywhere, it's just not, I don't know, it's just not optimal.

No, it's not for me either. And I really try, you know, I haven't done this the best, but this year I just took my calendar and like no meetings until 12. So I have the morning just to do my deep work. And sometimes for me, deep work is just taking a long walk. My best ideas are just taking a long walk, not listening to a podcast or an audiobook, and just letting my mind wander and then being like, oh, this is a great idea. And then, you know, taking out the phone to take the note. But otherwise, trying to not have any inputs.

Um, that's another thing there, I think, too, is that a lot of times when people are trying to figure something out, they're like so focused on it and they're like trying. And the reality is, if you just go for like a 1-2 hour walk in nature, it just comes to you. It literally works that way. It's, it's happened so many times, it's crazy.

Yeah, yeah, isn't it great? Did you hear about this book called The 12-Hour Walk?

No, but I want to check it out.

I haven't read it. But I was at an afterlife meeting and this guy's like, this is life transforming for people. And the rule is like, you go on this 12-hour walk, you can rest as much as you want, you can do whatever you want on the walk, but the only rule is you can't interact with anybody. You have to be with your own thoughts. You can't have a podcast going or music or, you know, anything with your phone, right? You can't be with anyone else. You just be with yourself for 12 hours. On a walk. And, uh, and people find themselves on these walks for 12 hours straight.

Oh yeah, I bet, dude. Yeah, I just found it. It's like, uh, oh, where did it go? It's by some guy named Colin. I'm not seeing the, uh, oh, Colin O'Brady, for anybody listening. Yeah, no, I, I actually, in, uh, Miami, I've— I think my longest is probably like 4 hours, but like on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I will do just long-ass walks. And I normally do listen to music and podcasts, so I got to try it without any stimulation. But just that alone, dude, they're the feeling, like ice bath, these long walks, red light sauna, dude, they change everything. They, they just do. Um, and I think most people are stuck for that core reason that their health isn't in the right place, so their mind isn't in the right place, and they just can't get the stuff done they need to get done. So these are like core principles that you got to do.

Yeah, I mean, even dialing in your sleep, like I quit coffee, right? I mean, I'm a big sleep nerd. I got, you know, the, what's it called?

Oura Ring?

The Oura. No, no, I didn't like the data on those. I got, I don't know. I'm like, wait, I had a great night's sleep. We had a terrible night's sleep. I was like, tell me that, you know, it's not working.

I lost mine, unfortunately, but I used to have one.

I tried like, you know, So, you know, thinking about future me and setting myself up that best next day has been like life-changing. Like just getting a good night's sleep and having good sleep hygiene. That Matthew Walker Why We Sleep book is fantastic. And, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that hard to do. It's just a little bit of self-discipline. I mean, I quit drinking because of it.

I was gonna say that. Me too. By once I started caring about my treat yourself more. That is part of what got me to quit drinking. Like, that was the biggest thing. Um, and the sleep, dude, anybody— I don't care who you are, like, some people somehow can be like functional when they're drinking all the time. I don't understand it, but I can just say this, like, there is no way your sleep quality is good if you're drinking every night.

There's just no— yeah, I mean, my parents hate me, you know, like Why, you know, why are you doing this? Like, live life. And like, you know, I don't want to be the healthiest person in the graveyard. That being said, like, I also like feeling good. Yeah, all the time. And doing these little things, I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything. Um, and yeah, I'm just happier. I think happier Mark makes for a more fun Mark to hang out with, and I don't need to you know, sort of, I don't, I don't need a drink to curb any social anxiety.

Yeah, it's weird how that works though, because when I was younger, to me, I did feel when I started to quit, I was like, what am I going to do? That like, it was such a big part of like having fun with other people that there is like a weird part before you get to the other side of like being like, oh, I can be at a party where everyone else is drinking and me sober and still have fun. Um, but there is, you know what I mean, that like little period where you're like, oh, this is weird, like everybody else is drunk and I'm not, and you feel like you're missing out. Um, but again, for me it was like that next day I was like, it's not worth it. The hangover, not— it's just not worth it. It's not, it's not good enough.

Yeah, I mean, look, I wasn't like this in my 20s, or I mean, I think you get that certain age and you're like, dude, the hangover gets— It's not, you know, the juices aren't the squeeze anymore. You're not having like those, those incredible sort of, you know, just amazing moments with friends, you know, you know, you know, drinking and, and bonding in that, that weird time of life.

Yeah.

Yeah. Now you can do it sober and it's great. 100%.

And you don't have to sacrifice 2 days after and feel like shit. It's not that would matter.

100%.

Um, so I guess another question for you, like, where— or maybe it is— my, my assumption is, I think I know how you're going to answer this, is you'll keep it, uh, simple. But like, what are— what's the next like 5, 10 years? Is it, is it really like staying this path because there's so much opportunity? Like, just keep scaling that 6,000 and helping as many people as you can, and you know, that's basically what it— because it doesn't have to be anything else. You already got this thing figured out.

Yeah, I mean, you know, certainly because it's just in my nature, uh, I'll get bored and then take on a new project. And but the project is always going to be, how can I solve this problem for my land geek community? So, you know, like I've got two software companies, they solve these problems. As AI keeps developing, there's going to be more problems to solve that's going to make it better and easier and, uh, more efficient and more inexpensive for my clients to solve their problems. Um, you know, so one of my ideas is I want to start a peer-to-peer lending platform, right? That was on a walk. I'm like, wait, there's all these people I know that have money they love the land business, they don't want to do it, but they would love to invest with a guy like, you know, maybe Sam, who doesn't have the money but has the skill. Like, put them together and, and figure out a way so that we can mitigate the investor's risk and Sam can, uh, you know, scale his land business. So I think the next 5 to 10 years is just thinking, how do I solve all the problems for for everybody so that it's just easier and easier and less expensive to do.

So basically that, just to make sure I'm fully understanding that idea, because I, I think it's awesome, is like all the people you're, uh, training through your books and platforms and stuff, you— and then you have other group that have money, you're connecting them, uh, within your community.

Yeah, like a kiva. For land investing.

Yeah, that's so sick because you only have so much— I mean, obviously I know you have people working for you, but like, only you can only take on so many people investing in you. So like, you can have that deal flow, uh, go to your people that you're, you know, coaching, basically.

Yeah, exactly. And then they're not taking hardly any risk because I'll be their security. If the person defaults, well, I'll take the land back, I'll sell it for you. I'll make you whole because I know I can sell it, no problem.

Oh, that was one of the— okay, I just thought this was a question I would ask. So I'm assuming it's probably easier to do this, like, when you're starting out, like, to physically, like, go to these places. But is there a scenario where, like, you could do this without physically— like, I, I guess you, you would have to go to check it out physically, but you know what I'm saying? Like, is this a remote thing that could be possible, or it's—

all you need is an inexpensive laptop and an internet connection, and you're in business. You can travel around the world doing this business. I can't tell you last time I looked at a piece of land.

Ah, okay.

So you just hire someone locally, like a $50 Craigslist gig. You give them a property report, and then you can use an app like What3Words to make sure, like, they're close to the property. And they take pictures, they shoot video for you, they tell you what the roads are like, if the neighbors are dumping anything. How far from the nearest services, all the things that a buyer is going to want to know, you're going to want to know. Yeah, you don't have to spend the time or the money to go out there and look at it. I mean, it's dirt, okay? You know, you're, you know, you're just gonna inspector out there for like, is this $30,000 roof gonna go bad? Or yeah, I don't know how much boilers are, but you know, whatever it is This is awesome.

Yeah, I— to me, this seems pretty much flawless. It's rare that you find something that's this flawless, but I think, you know, at the end of the day, it's flawless, you know, it works in itself, but you've also done enough where you've created the systems that make it even more flawless, you know.

Yeah, let's not sugarcoat it, right? Just because It's a simple model. It ain't easy, right? Yeah, nothing worth doing is easy, nor should it be, right? So there is, there is a learning curve. Like, I make it sound easy, it ain't easy. It's just—

okay, this is good to hear though, because you do make it sound easy.

Negative about this? There's a lot of moving parts. You mean, you know, you've got a learning curve, Um, there's a— I mean, just a lot to it. You've got virtual assistants you have to manage. You have to, you know, work for the software. You have to have a confidence in yourself with your offers. You have to be able to pivot if your offers come back and you're not getting a 3 to 5% response rate. Uh, you have to, you know, manage money. I mean, it's a business. Yeah, so you have to be willing to sacrifice for a business. And so if you're listening to me like, oh, this is really easy, I'm just gonna pick a county and make an offer and then flip it, you know, 30 days or less, like, no, there's a lot more that goes into it than what, you know, uh, a quick podcast is going to do.

Like, yeah, I'm giving you the highlights, but when you get into the weeds of it, there's a lot of moving What are, um, one of my last questions here is what are some of the common mistakes that you see, like, for people to watch out for? Like, let's just say if they, you know, for whatever silly reason they decided, hey, I don't want to read the book, I don't want to, I want to really try this all on my own, you know, maybe help those people. But really, everybody, I think that's the, that's probably the first mistake. Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, smart cut it, smart cut it.

You know, learn from other people. Yeah, uh, that's, that's gonna be your first mistake. I think the second mistake is— I see this a lot— it's fear. It's fear. So they buy a piece of property, and remember, you know, you're sending out offers, it could take 6 weeks before those offers come back and you get a response. And they buy a piece of property and then they don't want to keep mailing until they sell that piece of property, and then they just lost another 6 weeks. So, so often they become a chicken company with no chicken, because then they sell the property and like, I have nothing else to sell, and they gotta wait. So never stop your deal flow, because again, we're making our money on the buy. They all sell. There's a pig for every barn. I've never been stuck with a piece of raw land. They all sell at the right price.

That's so wild. Um, all right, well, I want to leave the floor to you. This was awesome. I learned a lot. And I mean, I'll hit you up privately, but maybe I'm interested in investing. It seems freaking awesome, honestly. Um, if there's anything we didn't cover, please, uh, share and then let people know, you know, where they can stay in contact, where to get the book, website, all that. But, uh, this is awesome, man. Congrats.

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna send you a link for people to get the book, uh, for free. Just pay for shipping. And, and do that. But other than that, I mean, you know, I like this Zig Ziglar quote, which is, if you'll do for the next 3 to 5 years what other people won't do, you'll be able to do for the rest of your life what other people can't do. But again, he said 3 to 5 years, not 3 to 5 months. So have that expectation. You know, any business, doesn't have to be my business, any business, give it 3 years.

100%. Dude, thank you again for coming on.

Thanks, Tyler Wagner.