Matthew Morgan: The Cannabis Gold Rush | The Authors Unite Show #961

Welcome to the show, Matt.

Appreciate that.

So you just— let me— so you lived in California before, you just moved to Miami, and actually before that, tell us a little bit more about you and what you do.

Yeah, so I actually was living in Arizona Arizona. I still have a house out there.

Okay.

Just, I got a place out here. I felt like it was, uh, for a lot of different reasons.

Yeah, yeah.

Happy to, uh, dive into that.

Yeah, yeah, I'd love to hear it.

Yeah, I could talk about my early life and then—

okay—

came to where I am to be today.

Does it have anything to do with our governor, why you came here, or no? Sure. Okay, cool.

He's my favorite governor in the country.

Yeah, I think me too.

Yeah, to me it seems he has my vote in '24 if he runs for president.

Yeah, me too. Yeah, I feel like there's only two United Stateses: South Dakota and Florida.

That's right. Other than that, they should just— yeah, that's a seed.

They are not united.

I'm with you. Um, so funny, I just said South Dakota. I'm actually born and raised out of Montana.

Oh really?

Out of Montana. Yeah.

Okay.

Um, so my grandparents had like 5,500 acres outside of Missoula, Montana.

Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, gotcha.

So I had a pretty interesting upbringing. I would say a good upbringing.

Yeah.

You know, I wouldn't change growing up in Montana for anything.

Okay.

So yeah, just kind of a, you know, rambunctious teenager in my early years. Partier, got in trouble semi-often.

Yeah. Okay.

Couldn't hold a job.

Tell us about that. Yeah. John Malak got in trouble a little bit.

John Malak got in a lot more trouble than I did.

Okay. I was like, what type of trouble are we talking about?

I mean, I did, you know, some just overnighters in Oh yeah, fighting, drinking, you know, all the nonsense.

Free rent for a night.

Yeah, exactly, keeps you warm.

So, but what— so I guess let's start from the childhood, just because— so like, what your main thing right now is, is a weed business, right? Yeah, yeah, that's what kind of marijuana business, but what is the— like, when you were a child, like, did you see yourself here at all, or like, how did you get to where you are?

I grew up in a conservative family in Montana.

Okay.

Weed was very taboo. Yeah, yeah, alcohol was okay.

Yeah.

So I started drinking when I was about 14.

Okay.

Yeah, got my first run-in with the law at 14 while drinking. Yep. But no, I really wasn't a big marijuana guy.

Okay.

I would dabble, you know, smoke pot here and there or whatever, but it was not the cool thing to do.

Yeah.

In the early 2000s in Montana.

So, okay, I got you.

I lean more towards the partying side of it, like with alcohol.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what about now?

Are you, uh, I mean, I still party with alcohol a little bit here and there, but it's the older I get, the less and less it becomes.

Okay, gotcha.

I do use cannabis every night to sleep.

Yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha.

I have sleeping— I've had sleeping issues since I was a kid.

Um, oh really?

I've tried everything. Yeah. And so, and that we—

or cannabis is the only thing?

Yeah, yeah, it's— I'm just lucky I found something natural that, you know, works.

Yeah, yeah. So for sure, yeah, it's— maybe you, you wouldn't— if anybody would know, you would know. I was younger, I smoked weed like every day, so I was like— and it was the best. And as I got older, for some reason now when I smoke it, sometimes I get anxiety and stuff. Like, it just doesn't— it doesn't hit me the way it used to hit me, so I, I avoid it now.

I think that's a couple reasons.

Yeah, yeah, I'm curious.

There's probably a lot more going on in your life now.

Yeah, yeah, a lot more stress.

Yeah, a lot more moving parts. And so if you smoke the wrong type of marijuana, it will actually push your brain into overdrive and overthink everything. Yeah, anxiety. Anytime you overthink causes anxiety for the most part. So if you use the type, right type of cannabis, then it should slow your brain process down and make you want to chill and watch. Okay, and eat a bunch of food.

And are you so like, like, could I get the right type of cannabis from somebody like you? Or because I only have the right type of—

okay, I'm not interested in having anxiety.

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, because the person that I— you know, when you just bought, you don't know really what you're—

I mean, I know, especially the black market, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like, hey, give me this strand. They're like, what do you mean? I got this, this, or this. Yeah, yeah, you're lucky you're getting weed, right?

Yeah.

Um, and in a— this— in a legalized setting, uh, especially on the West Coast where it's very matured, I mean, you can get very, uh, granular as to what you're looking for.

Okay.

I mean, and It's everything. So like, I prefer actually eating it versus— oh, smoke it too, but I like— my preferred method is eating it, so edibles.

Okay, gotcha. See, I've had some bad experiences.

Yeah, I mean, it's like if you take too much anything, right?

Yeah, yeah. And oils and stuff?

Uh, so I just use gummies, but they have the oils in them.

Okay.

Now I'm really starting to mess around with specific cannabinoids and what helps me sleep more. Like, I have now have tinctures of a cannabinoid cannabinoid called CBN.

Okay.

Um, most people haven't heard of it, you know. Most people only heard of THC and CBD, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I was gonna say it's another cannabinoid. There's over 150 in the plant, so— or—

oh, really?

THC is one, CBD is another, and so there's 150 plus more than that. So CBN is one, and I, I call it liquid Xanax, but it makes you— it definitely makes you not worry about it. That's solid.

I'm interested. That's awesome.

I take that at night, you know. Stops all your brain function as far as like— because the problem is when you lay in bed and your brain just keeps going.

Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, yeah, like I'm just like a workaholic kind of guy. I, I— so yeah, but the weed, whatever that I've been getting, it, it'll turn it into overdrive and I'm like, that's not why I got it.

Sativa, right? It's on one end of the spectrum and sativa is what you would want to smoke if you're a rapper about to record songs, if you're an artist about to paint a masterpiece, but not if you're a hyper-energetic, overthinking human being. Yeah, it will make you do that times 10, right? Yeah, panic attack. Uh, indica on the other hand is the opposite. So it is very heavy-hitting. Uh, it actually slows your brain function down so you're not thinking about much at all.

Okay.

And it makes you kind of want— it makes you extremely tired and hungry.

Okay, gotcha. So, so the, the— what was CBN?

Was that CBN?

Yeah, yeah, that's more like an indica.

Uh, normally you find more CBN in the indica.

Okay, gotcha.

So they, they sometimes they follow similar characteristics and traits.

Okay.

Um, and also the terpene profile. So the terpenes are what give it the smell and taste.

Okay.

Those play a huge factor in what kind of high you're going to have as well.

Okay, gotcha.

So it's all these hundreds of different compounds, natural compounds of the plant that come together to give you what they call an entourage effect.

Okay.

The entourage effect is what gives you a specific high.

Okay, gotcha.

Yeah.

So the— what is the actual business?

Like, is it like, um, so I've just historically, I've built, um, you know, large vertically integrated cannabis companies, so controlling from the seed to the shelf to the consumer.

Okay.

Um, in multiple states, I've built profitable cannabis companies and had exits, um, which more than most can say.

Yeah, yeah, at this point. So, okay, gotcha. And currently, are you running—

currently, I moved here to start working on Florida.

Okay, gotcha.

Florida has an extremely, uh, I would say appealing program to get involved with. It's very high-barrier to entry, takes a massive amount of capital. There's only 22 licenses in the whole state.

Oh really? Okay, got you.

And you can— it's the only license in the world where you can open unlimited dispensaries. So if you get one of the 22, you can open unlimited shops.

Oh wow, okay.

Everywhere else you can only open one shop with one license.

Okay, so here, as long as you get the— do you have the license here or you're working on it?

I'm working on it, yeah.

Okay, cuz once you have it, then there's really no competit—

well, there's 21 other competitors.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, not much competition, actually. The most—

probably the most profitable cannabis company in the world right now is only in an immature medical market in Florida. So, okay, like a kind of an insight as to what this is going to become.

Okay.

Which is probably the largest regulated marijuana market in the country. Yeah, because California can't get their shit together.

So, yeah, yeah. Okay, very interesting. So now, so it would be multiple dispensaries, that's what you would be opening up?

Yeah, you know, I think I've projected that I'll open between 50 and 100 stores, about 25.

Okay, gotcha. Okay, and to do that, I guess, what, what is it all into? Like, where do you get the, the weed from? Like, how, or how does it all—

so you have to manufacture it and cultivate it and grow it. So you should do everything in-house.

Okay, it has to be in-house.

Okay, concept, because normally in states you can go B2B, business to business. So someone produced a great product, you can buy it wholesale and then sell it retail to the consumer.

Okay.

Florida has a closed-loop supply chain, so you can only manufacture your own products to go on your own shelf. So you can't go business to business. Interesting. Yeah. So whatever you manufacture, that's what you have to sell out of your stores.

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

And we've been doing it for a long time in the West, so when I came out here, I was like, you know, it's just like— I'm not knocking these guys, they're crushing it— but it's just like, was a blast from the past when I came out here. Like, it reminded me of things we were doing in 2010. Yeah. And so I'm like, man, if I Oh, you—

yeah, you've already seen this, or like—

yeah, I've seen the progression of how it plays out, right? Okay, it's like if someone came up to you and said, hey, you know, what would you tell yourself at 18 years old now, knowing what you are now? What advice would you give yourself at 18? That's basically what I get to do in marijuana. I get to go to the East Coast and start from scratch, but I have all the trials and tribulations of what I've done on the West Coast for, you know, over a decade.

Gotcha. So, and then on the, the ones on the West Coast, are they still like running, or you've exited from them?

I'm no longer involved, but yeah, they're still operating, you know, dropping a lot of cash out of the bottom.

So gotcha. Is it actually a cash business or— I feel like I've heard it was. That's why.

Yeah. So the Fed won't allow big banks to take the money.

Okay.

And so you can work with state chartered banks, local credit unions, stuff like that. There's always certain players in almost every market that will take your money.

Okay.

But some people are not, I guess, sophisticated enough to find those people that take your money, or they're in a very precarious situation where they can't get banking. So some people do have to run cash businesses, which is obviously dangerous.

Yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha. Um, so now in Florida, so you just— are you in South Beach area or like where?

Uh, downtown.

Oh yeah, yeah, Paramount. Yeah, yeah, okay, gotcha. Um, and then from Florida, where do you see things like, or is Florida where you're really just focused?

Um, I think Florida is the crown jewel, okay, of the space in this country, in my opinion.

Yeah.

Um, So if the deal's right, then it will take up the majority of my focus.

Yeah.

If I don't like the terms, then I'll probably do multiple deals.

So, okay, gotcha. So, and you were telling me, uh, and if you want us to take this out, you can, but I know the— you said you just did a book, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I'm like, in the book you said like 50 interviews or more, that's how much it took to, um—

I probably did 50+ working sessions.

Yeah, okay, gotcha. So I'm curious because that, that would be your whole story, which I'm hoping to unfold here until today, right? Yeah, yeah. So tell us about, you know, beside— you don't remember the born part, I'm sure, but from there, like—

oh, like, like my early life?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, besides the, the weed stuff, we'll come back to it, but I'm curious.

Yeah, um, you know, uh, my parents separated when I was 4 months old, so I was kind of— I'd say kind of a broken family to a certain extent.

They separated at 4 months?

When I was 4 months old.

Okay, got you.

I've never really seen my parents together.

Gotcha.

Um, they both, you know, kind of remarried and had new families, and everything.

Yeah.

You know, like, I don't know, I guess typical teenage growing up, you know, running wild. Yeah. Can't hold a job, stuff like that.

Okay.

My family kind of, I think, was thinking I was going to end up kind of being a screw-up.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I barely graduated high school. I had good grades. I think I had like a 3.5 GPA, but I never went to school. Yeah. Okay. So I had so many absences they didn't want to let me graduate.

Is that when you kind of thought like entrepreneurship was for you?

So my dad was always an entrepreneur when I was growing up. He owned art galleries.

Oh, okay.

He was a logger.

Yeah.

And then he started opening art galleries. And so I, from like the age of 5, I kind of saw all that. Yeah. And he started buying me books like, well, first, I don't know if you guys know who Wayne Dyer is, but he's a self-help guru. So he would make me listen to Wayne Dyer with cassette tapes in the car when I was little. Kid.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I was like absorbing all that, and it was subconsciously— I didn't know what was going on, but obviously, yeah, helped a lot. And then I think, uh, when I was 12, he bought me the book Tony Robbins' Awaken the Giant Within. Um, and that was— I started reading that and it just kind of was reprogramming my— reprogram my brain at a very early age. Yeah, and for sure. And then he brought me, um, he bought me Think and Grow Rich. No, not yet. Okay, Rich Dad Poor Dad. I love the sophomore high school school.

Okay.

Robert Kiyosaki.

Yep.

Um, and then when I graduated high school, I bought Think and Grow Rich, and that, that's one of my 3 like key pillar of books.

Yeah.

Think and Grow Rich, How to Win Friends and Influence People, and The Art of War.

Yeah.

Like if, if I had to— if I could only give you 3 books, I'd give you those 3 books.

He's reading Think and Grow Rich right now for the— I plan on reading that book over 100 times. You've read it 10 times? Okay.

It's like, it's like my Bible, right? Like if you follow the principles in that book, you will be extremely successful.

Yes.

But it takes a lot of discipline.

Now, do you think— and the answer is definitely yes, but I'm just curious, meaning like, you've read it 10 times, so have you got more—

front to back, like I'll go back and I'll reread things. Like, I haven't picked it up in probably like 5 years, to be completely honest.

Okay.

But from, I would say, 20 to 30, yeah, I was deep in it. Like, there's so many like golden nuggets.

Yeah. Like, did more pop out on like 2, 3, 4? I've only read it once.

Just like when you watch a movie, right?

Yeah, yeah. More comes out.

Yeah, that like you didn't see the first time because you're so focused on trying to follow the storyline and grabbing the big golden nuggets that you miss a lot of smaller ones.

Yeah.

And so that's really— going back to education, I dropped out of college on my 10th day. Yeah. Just because I was trying to get involved in business from an academia level, and I realized that those professors aren't really like successful entrepreneurs. Yeah. They wouldn't be professors if they were. They'd be making tens of millions of dollars in business.

Yeah. No, that's the story. I was— I dropped out of school 2 years in, and part of the reason was that book over there, The 4-Hour Workweek. That changed my life. And then— but the other thing was, I remember, and I wasn't doing this in like a way of like trying to call him out, but I had a professor— my major was entrepreneurship in college, right? So first day of class, because I was just curious, I asked the guy, I was just like, so can you tell us about some of the businesses that you've ran? And he literally responded and said he had never run a business, but he had his master's in entrepreneurship.

And I was like, What the fuck is this? Good at studying and taking tests.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, this is nuts.

Street smarts go so much farther than any book that you're going to read, right?

Yeah. And I just couldn't believe— I was like, I don't— I mean, I'm glad you have a master's in entrepreneurship, but I don't know what you're going to tell me, right? Like what you're going to teach me. And any entrepreneur would say that, like, if you don't actually have experience, because the amount of failure, like there's just so much that goes into it that like if you've never gone through it, right, you don't No, like, you just— how could you?

That's trial by fire. And yeah, entrepreneurship is incredible. Like, that's my favorite.

Just— yeah.

And it's hard. People are like, well, how do I get started? You just gotta go. Just, just—

yeah, that's what I said. Jump, you know?

Yeah, I know. I don't know how to explain it. It's just like when you walk up to a big— when you're cliff jumping, right? Yeah, the ocean or lake or whatever. And people stand up there for 30 minutes. They talk themselves out of it because they think about all the things that could go wrong. I'm like, you just gotta walk up there and jump, you know? I mean, that's what it's like to be an entrepreneur. You can't think about all the things that are gonna go wrong. You have to go do it and make sure you figure it out as you go.

Yeah, that is what it's like. I've gone cliff jumping before, and when I wait up there longer, then I can't do it.

It becomes more and more, I don't want to do this, right? The longer you sit up there, because your brain will start to— your brain is a survival mechanism, right? It's all about wanting you to survive. And that's why people don't like to go out of their comfort zone, because your brain doesn't want you to go to your comfort zone. Your brain wants systematic routine because it wants to know exactly when you're gonna get a paycheck, when the food's gonna come, right? Yeah, all the survival things, the hierarchy of needs. And so when you go out of your comfort zone, there's a lot of unknowns and your brain doesn't like that. Yeah, because your brain's whole job is to make sure that you reproduce and that you survive to get on your genetics to the next generation. So going out of your comfort zone, there's way too many unknowns for survivability in your brain. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, right?

Yeah, no, that is— yeah, I've literally had to climb down before.

Yeah, I've been that guy.

There's videos of out there where I was about to say, don't take him. Yeah, yeah, I just sat up there for like hours and I was like, no, I'm gonna— and they're like, dude, it's literally more dangerous to climb down this thing for sure than it is to jump. But I was like, I don't care.

You're like, but my brain wants me to just climb down, right?

Yeah, yes.

So I get it, man. And like, it's just, it's so much different comparing and contrasting, like, learning how to build a company in a classroom versus doing it. Yeah, real life.

So that, that's what I was going to ask you next. So like, it's one thing to like build a company, build and exit is like a whole nother thing in my life. So how have you, I guess, built these companies in that way that you're able to exit? Um, like what makes a company—

so I actually, I build— so how I look at things is I look at the exit and the upside potential, and I've done this since I was young.

Okay.

Like for example, like After college, uh, my family's extremely upset, right? Because most of them didn't get a college education. They're like, what the fuck are you doing?

Yeah.

Uh, you know, you were supposed to be something better than what we were.

Yeah.

And so I went and became an electrician apprentice, like, right away in the union, and like crushed the tests and all the interviews and stuff. And it's a pretty, uh, it's a pretty, like, uh, I would say competitive process. And there's a lot of people trying to get in because you're guaranteed to make, you know, base $80,000, $90,000, $100,000 a year, whatever it this now. I don't know, this was, this was, yeah, 16 years ago. Um, so I went and got into that, and my family was very happy, like, oh my God, what a great career. And in my head, the first thing I thought of was like, how much money can I make doing this? Like, what's— where's the ceiling? Yeah, right. And so it's like, well, I guess I could build a huge electrical company as a contractor, you know, and maybe becomes worth $200-300 million. I don't know, but that's how my brain works. So I start at the end and say, what's What's the absolute best you can do in this scenario? And then I— if I like how I— what the exit would look like, then I would architect that backwards starting from there and then work it back to today.

Okay, gotcha. Yeah, yeah. So it's way more—

I build, I look at opportunities and it's all about the liquidation or exit event. Like, I'm not just building something because I want to have fun.

Yeah, yeah.

I love building things. I have a lot of fun, but making sure that there's a path, there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is equally as important. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah.

Because you said that before, very analytical. That's what you said, right? Before. Yeah. So like, because it's— well, I think most people, they don't even— they just don't think like that. You know what I mean? Like, they're just like, even a lot of entrepreneurs, like, they start a business, but they're not thinking about the end. They're just like, okay, I found a pain, right? Another way I can solve—

I'm doing, you know, I'm doing a $12 million en, but now what?

Yeah.

Well, who's your takeout? Like, Who would take you out? Who would you be a takeout target for, right?

Yeah.

Uh, I don't know, I never really thought about that. I'm like, you never thought about what you're going to do with this business when it's profitable and built?

Yeah.

You didn't have someone in mind that was going to come and write you a big, you know, multiple on your EBITDA for this thing? Like, yeah. So it's just, it's mind-blowing that sometimes people just stumble onto something great, right? Like, I found a niche that needed to be addressed by an entrepreneur and I addressed it and here we are.

Yeah, right.

But they never ever in a million years thought it would be end up becoming what it was, like to that size or stature.

So what are all the things that you like look— so EBITDA is what you were saying there. And it's funny, so my dad's an accountant, so I don't even know a lot of these things. It's really interesting, and that's why I'm asking these questions, is like I stumbled across this book stuff when I was 20 and I dropped out. I wrote a book, it hit bestseller, but it was right after I dropped out of school. So all these people thought similar to your story, it seems like I was going down a bad path.

Right, of course.

And then I'm from a small town in Philadelphia, an hour north of Philly, and everybody was like, he's a freaking best-selling author and he's like 20 years old, this makes no sense. And then I helped a few people for free and they got the same result. And then I figured out the entire— you know, there's some things I don't know, but I know the industry very well. And it— I just fell into it. But I honestly have not thought about like an exit. And I've been running it for 9 years and we do well, but like I haven't—

They would buy you, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And there's probably some big publishing houses that would, I don't know how it works, but I assume they would buy you.

Yeah, yeah, no, I think so. I just, I don't know if I've built it in a way, or I think so, like it's very systematized, but you know what I mean? Like what is buyable? Like I, you know what I'm saying?

And in that vertical, I couldn't give you a specific answer.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? And I don't know how to structure a publishing company Yeah, for sure, for sure. Marketing company or whatever it may be.

But for your— so, but, um, for the dispensaries, that was something you built in a way where there's— so obviously there's people that work at them, and then you just kind of turned over to a bigger company and they were like, yes, we'll just acquire you?

Well, either that or you find like a very wealthy family or a syndicate, like a family office or something. Yeah.

Oh, okay, okay.

I've, I've had a family office buy me out of a project.

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah.

I had a Wall Street guy do it with another project.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's either people that are looking for their next play or people— yeah— diversify their portfolio, or if they're a company in the same vertical as you that's looking to expand or looking to increase their footprint or go into a new territory that you're already occupying.

Yeah.

See, the big boys, they don't like to do the early heavy lifting with all the guesswork. That's for entrepreneurs.

Yeah.

When you build something special and they want to start doing a consolidation, which will happen relatively soon in cannabis in America, you just want to be an attractive takeout target for them. So, you know, when Philip Morris and Anheuser-Busch and all the other 800-pound gorillas get in, which they will, including pharma, so Pfizer, you just want to be the prettiest girl at the prom, right? Yeah, that's basically what it boils down to.

Yeah. Any thoughts on, um, because I just saw weed stocks, there's some companies that have just skyrocketed because the Oregon thing I think it was because of that decriminalization of all drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, actually a lot of it had to do with the Biden— oh really, winning the presidency. Yeah.

Oh, okay, I got you.

Because conservatives historically don't like change. Yeah, cannabis is a progressive change.

Yeah.

And so it's the liberals, you know, they get— it's one— it's top 3 biggest, uh, points for liberals is cannabis is one of them. I think it's— okay, universal health care, probably student debt. Yeah, and cannabis.

Okay, gotcha.

And so this is one of their top 3 biggest, uh, things that they're, they're on right now.

Okay.

Um, but so if Trump won, there wouldn't be any change, right? Yeah, he's not going to push any cannabis bills. Um, but most people don't understand how politics work.

Yeah.

So if the Senate stays conservative, nothing's getting through anyway, so it doesn't matter.

I have heard, right?

So I don't know if you saw the other day in the news, late last week, they're like The House passes historic cannabis bill. It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Yeah, the Senate won't touch it.

Yep.

Right. So what is it? What are we talking about here? Yeah, most people understand how that works. So they're like, oh, Biden won the president, marijuana's about to become legal. Marijuana is not becoming legal for a long time if they don't take the Senate. So yeah, now if the, if the, if the liberals win the two seats in Georgia, then it would be a liberal, or it would be a Democratic-controlled Senate. Yeah. Uh, that it would— they would legalize cannabis as fast as we could snap our finger.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I'm curious, let's talk about this now. So what's your take on all this then?

Like, I don't want it to go legal right now.

Oh, you don't? Okay. Not at all. Gotcha.

I want to stay exactly how it is for at least another 5 years. But the longer it stays like this, the longer it keeps the 800-pound gorillas out of the ring with you. So I can compete at this level all day long, but when the multi, multi-billion dollar players come in, like big alcohol, tobacco, pharma, then it's extremely hard to compete with someone that has unlimited capital. Okay. You want to be the prettiest girl at the prom, like I told you.

Yeah.

And they open up those floodgates, you want to be sitting here with a massive company that's extremely profitable.

Okay.

You'll have a crazy exit like you probably didn't think.

So your reason for the 5 years is meaning like you want these 5 more years to build something.

I want to be taken out.

Yeah, that makes sense.

The longer they let me go, the bigger it'll get, but I need 5.

Okay, gotcha.

If the Senate stays conservative, which I believe it will, yeah, then you're really— I just don't— I believe the '24 presidential election, there will be so much public push for legalization. I bet you will be— right now, America, it's over 90% approval to legalize medical cannabis. Yeah, I think it's like in the 60-62 arena for legalizing recreational cannabis.

Okay.

I believe it'll be like 80-24, right? Because what's happening is more and more states are going legal, and then people are realizing, oh, marijuana is not bad. It's not as bad as the government told us. It's not— there's not drive-by shootings everywhere. Like, actually, crime's going down because people are drinking less when they're using cannabis, and there's no domestic abuse because people are not violent when they're high. Yeah, right. Alcohol is like the real problem, if you ask me.

I, I agree.

Yeah, alcohol is the most dangerous drug, in my opinion.

Yeah.

Um, and there's really no medical upside or anything to it, right? It's just straight poison.

Yeah.

Even though I still, you know, uh, indulge in it.

Yeah, yeah, for the fun.

Yeah, maybe once a month or once every couple months. But it's, uh, I don't know. I, I think that both presidential candidates will have to run on some sort of premise of legalization in '24 because the public, uh, persona will be so high for legalization that they'll have no choice, you know, conservative or Democrat. And then, so I believe then when they came into term, it would take a little bit of time for them to pass a bill to get it legalized. And then once the bill passes to legalize, then it would take 12 to 18 months after that to actually implement and put all the systems in place. And so that's when you really want to exit, is when they announce legalization, in between when they announce legalization and when they implement. That'll be the highest valuations for cannabis companies. Companies in the world ever. Okay, it'll be like the dot-com companies in '99.

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, it's, um, I actually, one of my friends, he, uh, this, I think it was in 1999, I don't know, but he bought, uh, liquor.com and wine. He had wine.com and then he sold it for multiple.

I remember seeing a guy on binoculars.com doing pretty good revenue, sold like $30 million.

$30 million? Holy For binoculars.com.

I was like in middle school, so I didn't get to get involved, but yeah, yeah, it would have been a good time. Oh yeah, but that's, you know, that's getting back to it. That's what a lot of the reason why I got involved in cannabis. Um, I got to read the books, right? And yeah, and I became an electrician apprentice, which was brutal. I mean, I was, I was, I remember working one winter out in Yellowstone Park. Yeah, negative 40, and like working outside negative 40, I was like So I did that for about 18 months. It was a very toxic, cancerous environment. Construction workers are very, very negative.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, they always kind of— they feed off each other's negativity.

Yeah.

You know, how little of work can we do to keep our jobs and screw the— screw the boss, the owner, right? It's crazy.

Yeah.

And so after about a year and a half, I was just like, I can't do this anymore. Yeah. Um, and, uh, so I went and resigned. Everyone was obviously very upset because I had like a great career path, right?

Yeah.

And, uh, my father again came and he, uh, he got me a— for my birthday, I think the year before or something, he got me the class to go get my real estate license.

Okay.

So I went and got that and I was like, I'm gonna become a realtor. And like, oh my God, you're using that as an excuse, you know, for a career? What a joke, blah blah blah.

Yeah.

And, um, so I went and did that, became a realtor when I was 20. I had never worn a suit or anything, so I didn't I didn't really know what that was like. So I'm wearing suits that were like 3 times too big for me, no idea what was going on. And like, I don't know how much you know about being a realtor, but like it's really your own business, right? You hang your license under a broker, but really you're running your own little business. And it really showed me how to run a business. So I didn't have any money, my family didn't have any money, so I went and applied for like 50, 60 credit cards simultaneously because they don't— they can't cross-check that, right? I got approved for like half of them. And so that's how I lived while I was trying to build my real estate company, was those credit cards.

No way.

Yeah. And I didn't sell a property for 6 months, and I could see why. I mean, I probably looked like I was 10.

3X.

Yeah, I wouldn't sell my house with me either. Yeah, yeah. I like had like $4 left in my checking, and I was maxed on the credit cards, like 3 months behind on all my payments. I'm like, I'd moved back into my mother's like dungeon basement, and I'm like, I'm doomed, like it's over. Yeah, I was 20. Yeah. Yeah, I was still 20, and then I finally sold a house and I got like a $5,800 commission or something. I was like, I'm rich.

Yeah.

And so that was like, that was like what I needed to fuel the fire. And from there I just started cranking them out of the park. And okay, I created like this little system in real estate to where I would go talk to landowners with big parcels of land, and then I made friends with the real estate developers, and then I'd sell them the big parcels of land and they would chop it up into 100 lots. And I made friends builders, and then I would sell the lots to the builders and they would build spec houses, and I'd sell the spec houses to just normal people.

Yeah.

So I had like this machine going, and then when people want to sell their new house they bought, they call me back. And so I really didn't have to do any more— early on I did a lot of cold calling, a lot of cold knocking on doors, stuff like that. But after I got the machine built, then I didn't have to really— my phone was ringing, not vice versa.

Yeah.

And then, um, so yeah, so I was crushing it through like '21, '22, '23 in real estate. I bought like a big, like a big house in Mansion Heights in Montana when I, on my 22nd birthday.

That's awesome.

Yeah. And then, uh, 2008 rolled around when I was 23 and, um, I, you know, basically lost everything.

Oh yeah, that's the common story.

Yeah, I was overextended, young, arrogant, you know, I thought I was bulletproof and I wasn't planning on that. And that's, that's really where I was like, because I remember seeing all these like schmucks making so much money and in mortgages, like, because if you had a pulse, right, you could get a loan. Like, it didn't matter. Nothing else mattered. These guys are making $50,000, $70,000, $100,000 a month. I'm just like, these guys are not smart enough to be doing this.

Yeah.

So I looked at the tech bubble and I looked at subprimes. I'm like, there's always another big thing. And I had some buddies, some best friends that went to Iraq in '04 when we graduated high school and came back and had severe PTSD. And the VA put them on— I mean, like, you know, they ended up in straitjackets and stuff in the— in the— yeah. The VA hospitals, and the VA puts you on a bunch of pharmaceuticals, like a bunch of pills, and basically vegetable-izes you so you can't harm yourself or others. And so I just, I knew like if they just continued on that path, they wouldn't probably make it. And so, you know, as a Hail Mary, we ended up getting them a cannabis medical card and they started using marijuana and they basically got off all the pharmaceuticals and they started living normal lives and didn't have all the, you know, crazy PTSD. Yeah, relapses and issues and stuff. So that's really when I was like, wow, there's, there must be like more to this plant than, you know, just a bunch of hippies out there smoking dope.

Yeah.

And, um, so that's when I started to take a much harder look at it. I was like, I think this might be like the future, like the next big thing. And yeah, when I told my family about that one, yeah, yeah, they were not happy. They're like, you want to be a drug dealer? Yeah, I don't, I just don't get it. You don't get it. Like, you don't see what I see.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, so I went on my merry way and went and got my medical card and tried my hand at growing pot.

I gotcha. Yeah, so I'm just kind of curious, 2008, and then I want to get back to like where you— did you start building it in, um, in LA or Arizona?

Montana.

Oh, that's where the weed started?

Yeah.

Oh, oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha.

Yeah, and then it brought me to crazy places, but okay.

Any Colorado or no?

Um, never in Colorado.

Oh, never? Okay. Just why not?

Just saturated.

Saturated.

Okay. Their program up, right?

Oh, really? Oh, see this? Yeah. That's why, because the only, I know some people that have started stuff up there, but when you say they didn't set it up right, what do you mean?

Like what gave out way too many licenses?

Okay.

That didn't regulate it properly in my mind. Like they were the trailblazer, right? Yeah. Everyone behind them got to look at their mishaps and then not do that. Got them in Oregon and Washington were really like the trailblazers on legalization.

Yeah.

And if you look at those 3 programs, they're, they're destroyed. Those are my 3 least favorite cannabis programs in the country. Oh wow.

Okay.

And as they, as they keep rolling out more programs, they keep getting better and better on how to do it.

That makes sense.

I think, uh, I don't even know after this last election, but it's probably like 40 states, I would say, probably somewhere in that 38 to 40 now have some sort of marijuana program.

Okay.

Because you had like some new states come online, it might be 37, but there's still some holding out like Texas and Idaho and some of the real conservative places.

Yeah.

So yeah, it's— you want to stay away from really saturated markets. Like, there's probably 1,600 operators in Colorado.

Okay.

So, oh wow, Colorado's population is probably 6.5 million.

Okay.

Why would I, why would I compete against 1,600 people when I could go to a state like Florida who has 22 to 30 million people depending on the season. Yeah, 130 million plus tourists a year, and there's only 22 competitors.

So, oh yeah, that's—

you tell me where you want to— yeah, I can be here and do the same amount of effort I do in Colorado and get 50 times the result, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it's all about building the right foundation for the house to be built on.

But so to get the license here though, it's probably much harder. So, but you see, you seem very certain though that you're going to get it.

So like, well, you got to buy it. Oh, it's just a perk now, right?

Oh, okay.

I thought it was like valuable that— yeah, trading hands you know, crazy, crazy valuation. So, okay, um, I would say historically the license have traded in the $55 to $85 million range for the piece of paper. Really?

Yeah, yeah, seriously.

Yeah.

So why, you're bringing together like some investors and stuff?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've raised, um, about $250 million in the cannabis space, so.

Okay, gotcha.

And that's, that's about how much this project's going to take too.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's worth it because, yeah, I mean, you can build, you know, um, like Truly, for example, who's, uh, leading the pack here right now. Yeah, they're trading, they're publicly traded. I think they're trading like $2.8 billion right now.

Okay. Yeah, so that's worth $250 million. Yeah, yeah.

Anytime you get a 10x on your money, I think it's worth it. Yeah.

Okay, so interesting. Okay, and but it is, it is solely just like something you purchase, like you really—

there's— yeah, there's really no other way to get it because, okay, early on you would have had to be in the application process But there was like some very specifics in that application process. Like you had to be a farmer in Florida for the last 30 years to even apply.

Okay. Yeah.

So it was a very select group of individuals that were allowed to apply.

Okay.

Got about 22 of these things, which are like a generational wealth lottery ticket, right?

Oh yeah. Yeah.

And you know, like I've seen some young kids that got a couple of them and flipped them for like $40, $50, $60 million.

Oh, that's sick.

Yeah.

Oh man. I love books, but this business seems a little better.

Yeah, that, you know, I, I feel like I get kind of bored with like, yeah, mundane things or like things that happen on a regular basis. And cannabis is like, it's always changing so fast that it's impossible to get bored.

Yeah. So, and then we'll come back to— I'm just curious though, 2008, like just from an experience set, like what was it like, like being like in that, like It was— was it just crazy? Meaning, like, from seeing— like you said, you kind of saw behind the scenes, like you knew something was weird even at such a young age too, which is fascinating.

Like, like, as that economic cycle?

Yeah, yeah, like when it crashed.

That's when I really started to understand economic cycles, and timing is everything.

Yeah, right.

So you, like— I think we're gonna have another huge correction next year because I think the economy is artificially propped up by the government right now. Yeah, just because you can't be hitting all-time highs in the stock market when you have 16% unemployment and you just took 30% off your GDP this year. Yeah, it doesn't happen unless the Fed's pumping billions into the market.

Okay, so you think—

yeah, I think the Fed gives BlackRock and Goldman and a bunch of other guys billions of dollars to deploy in the market.

Okay, gotcha.

That's why you see things like Tesla do what they do.

Yeah, yeah, I actually just saw an article about them recently where they said that it seems that it's very inflated.

I'm a data guy.

Yeah, yeah, that's why I'm asking.

And I look at the dots on the board, and if I can't connect the dots, there's something wrong.

Okay, so what's going on with that?

Do you think it's a— All right, so the stock market is symbolizing that we have the most strongest economy we've ever had because it's hitting all-time highs.

Yeah.

This is probably the weakest economy we've had since the Great Depression.

Mm-hmm.

So how does that work?

Yeah, it doesn't.

So it doesn't add up.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. So for like politically, I'm just—

Yeah.

Are you— do you kind of like— because Democrats, they want to more legalize weed, so is that because it would— even though you want it in 5 years, that's—

so weed's gonna get legalized no matter what.

No matter what. Okay.

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

Okay.

I've been saying that since 2008 and people thought I was psychotic, right? They're like, this, you know, you're gonna get arrested. Yeah. It's, it's new, it's innovative, but it's progressive. It fits right in the Democratic profile, right? Yeah, like change. They like progressive things and they want, you know, freedom of do whatever you want. Yeah, like a free-for-all. Mm-hmm. I fall more on the side of independent myself. Yeah, because I think politics are ridiculous.

Okay. Yeah, tell me more about why you say that.

Like, my business fundamentals obviously fall inside the conservative Yeah, you know, eat what you kill. Yeah, work your butt off and you can have anything you want, right? That's why this is the greatest country in the world. Yeah, as far as like personal beliefs, yeah, more probably more on the side of Democratic. Yeah, it's like, you know, if you want to put something in your body, be my guest. As long as you're not hurting other people, like, do whatever you want.

I agree with that.

Set up clean drug houses if that's what they want to do. Yeah, you know, and I— as long as like the kid's not too like developed, especially As far as abortions, I— it should be the mother's choice, you know. If there's a 16-year-old girl that is, you know, is 3 months pregnant, she should have the choice to have an abortion, in my opinion, because that could be a horrible life for the child and for the mother, right? So yeah, yeah, um, yeah. But as far as like having abortions 2 days before a birth or something, I, I can't get behind that. Yeah, so I'm just like a middle-of-the-road guy. Like, we should do whatever's— we should make the decision that's best for the bulk of the majority of the American population. Yeah, not about playing these funny games or, you know, lining my pockets with taxpayers' money like most politicians do anyway.

Yeah, for sure. So with, um, a lot of our listeners, they're like, they're non-fiction authors and they want to like grow. Um, usually the book is— there's a business on the back end of it. So on social media, on Insta, on Instagram at least, you know, you do really well on there. Like, I think it's 700,000 followers. So how did you build that? Like, what do you think was the—

um, so yeah, I thought I thought Instagram was ridiculous when I first saw it, and like, I took it as a joke when I first started using it. I think— I don't remember when I did my first post, probably like '15, 2015, '13, I don't know, somewhere.

Yeah.

Um, and then when people started seeing these big cannabis companies that are building, they're like, you should really start publicizing what you do. Like, it's very unique, and I don't think a lot of people get to see the behind the scenes of this. Um, And I'm like, yeah, you're probably right. Yeah, I just, you know, I just kind of, I like to keep to myself and just work, and I'm not one to broadcast what I'm doing. I was always one to keep my head down and just build.

Okay.

And, you know, just stay focused versus getting pulled off the track. But I started posting all the weed stuff and my following started blowing up, and more and more people started following me and engaging with my social media. Um, and then I started hanging out with this guy named Burner. He's a very well-known guy in marijuana now. He's a rapper. He's like best friends with Wiz Khalifa. Do you know him? Yeah, you know that song 21 Joints? And—

oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I like that song.

That's— okay, I would say he's a close friend.

Okay, cool.

And so we kind of grew up in the space together. He started as a door guy at a, you know, marijuana shop.

Yeah.

And now he, you know, is the face of like the most well-known marijuana brand in the country, Cookies.

Okay.

Um, and so I started hanging out with him, and that got me more exposure, obviously. Um, And then, uh, Wiz started coming around. We did like Khalifa Kush for Wiz, um, and that got me a lot more, you know, um, eyeballs as well, for sure. Um, and then I think that probably got me up to like, I don't know, 100-some thousand followers. I started running around with Dan Bilzerian, and then it just blew up.

Oh yeah, yeah, that could help. Yeah, yeah. How did you get— oh, well, because he's CBD, at least I know he does.

It was though, like, I, I created Ignite for for him.

Oh, you did? Yeah. Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

So we were running around for a few years together.

Oh yeah, well, that sounds fun. All right, tell us some of those stories. I want to hear some— what's up? A few?

It's crazy.

Sure, there's thousands.

Yeah, I think, you know, when we did the Ignite launch party.

Yeah.

Um, it was at a, you know, house in Bel Air.

Okay.

Like 44,000 square feet house or something.

Oh wow, that is tiny.

That's the house he leased out for himself. Um, and, uh, yeah, the first party we threw, I think, because you had to sign in on an iPad, like, sign a waiver when you were walking in.

Yeah.

And so I think the count was like 800-some girls and like 80 guys. So there was like, it was a 10-to-1 ratio.

Oh yeah, good odds.

Not even fun. Like, it was not enjoyable.

Really?

Yeah, you get pulled like in 25 directions like a piece of meat. So it was actually overwhelming.

That's so interesting.

It was chock-full of celebs in there too. Yeah, yeah, a lot of like, you know, pro athletes, musicians, stuff like that. Um, some of the airplane rides are pretty good.

Oh yeah, but you have to sign stuff. So are you able to share some of the—

sign anything? I thought we were partners. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I mean, I mean crazy stuff. Like, you know, we'd fly to Whistler and go like snowmobiling out in the backcountry, or yeah, he's got like this million-dollar off-road truck, so we'd like, yeah, take girls off-roading in the desert going like 130 miles an hour through the desert. Yeah, shoot machine guns, you know, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, basically what his Instagram—

I mean, that's like, yeah, there's a lot of downtime, right? Like what you see is like the highlights for sure. Yeah, and there's a lot of just time to chill, like talking about, you know, in-depth things. He's a methodical, like, deep thinker.

Yeah.

Which most people wouldn't believe. Like, he comes off as like kind of a redneck hillbilly when you talk to him, but he's actually very intelligent. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we were like brothers, you know, inseparable for a while.

Yeah.

We did a lot of crazy shit. I did a lot of shit I probably wouldn't have got to experience if we weren't friends. Yeah. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm not having parties in 150 $50 million houses by myself.

So, so where is that at? I'm just curious, like, so you helped build the back end of it, you know, obviously, I guess he's the—

yeah, but it was like, it was just, it was a challenging environment to build a big enterprise with.

Okay.

Between like, you know, the inner workings of him and family was challenging. That was kind of in the middle. And then like having a bunch of really attractive girls around all the time.

Yeah.

Hard to stay focused.

Okay.

So I, we, we, I helped him with that for about a year. Yeah. And then I just threw up my hands and kind of said, I can't do this anymore. And yeah, we kind of went our separate ways.

I got you.

Okay. It's a little bit of a fallout, but okay. I don't know. We might reconnect one day. Who knows?

Okay. No, that's fine.

I don't have any ill will or anything, you know, I wish him, wish him well. Yeah.

Yeah. No, for sure. So where, I guess overall right now, you know, you're going after Florida obviously, but like what's the overall goal?

Like, You know, I mean, Florida's large enough of an opportunity where I could just build in Florida and exit and be fine.

Yeah.

Be happy with that.

Okay.

But I'm, you know, I'm never one to sit still, so I can only imagine what it turns into.

Okay.

I mean, it could end up becoming one of the largest cannabis companies again. I don't know.

Yeah.

I had, I probably had the largest cannabis company in 2017 in the country.

Okay.

Yeah.

And which one was that?

Reef Dispensaries.

Reef Dispensaries. Okay, gotcha.

Yeah, I built that from scratch starting beginning of '14.

Okay, gotcha.

That's really when shit got crazy. That's when Berner came. We started hanging out all the time. Then Wiz came. Yeah. And just had like the busiest dispensary in the world in '17 in Vegas. So I was living in Vegas. Yeah, it was just like, it was just everything turned into like hyper speed and the exponential effect of like the snowball was incredible. Like I got named number 140 under 40 in marijuana in 2016. Mm-hmm. 18, I was named one of the most influential people in marijuana by High Times. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, now I'm older and wiser, and yeah, not— I'm not really as polarized and intrigued by all that nonsense like I was before. Yeah, like growing up in Montana, you know, Hollywood romanticizes that whole lifestyle, right? And so I'm— I had— I'm like, I was obsessed with the show called Entourage back in Oh yeah, I love that show. It's still my favorite show of all time. I've watched it a lot. And so that, living in a very simple life in Montana, watching that show, you're like, that's where I should be, right? Like, that's the epitome of a perfect life. And so after, uh, after Reef, after I exited Reef at the end of '17, I actually moved to the penthouse in the W Hollywood. Yeah, yeah, because, and a lot of scenes were shot at the W in Hollywood. In Entourage. Yeah, that's when I got the penthouse there. I was like, I'm gonna go do this now. Yeah, and I just— I didn't like LA at all. The people are toxic. Mm-hmm. And it's all about clout and, you know, who you are and who you know. And I was like, how do all these people party every night? Party is expensive, and they don't— I don't even know what they do for a living. Yeah, a lot of them like, you know, rob, steal, or cheat or whatever it is. Like, I don't know, I just don't feel like there's a lot of honest, hardworking people out there that I could find.

Yeah. Well, that's what I was just gonna say, though, is it seems to me, and leads into the next question, that you, you really like the actual doing. Like, you like the work.

I'm a grinder.

Yeah. Like, you're not in it for the flashy stuff.

That's, you know, I like— when I was a little kid, me and my grandma would build LEGO cities for like days on end, right? Like, I like building things. And I like looking back and being able to look at like something large that I built.

Yeah.

I'm just— I'm still building LEGO things, but just with in real life.

Exactly.

Nothing changed. I'm just building things of like to instill a legacy.

Yeah. Yeah. Like it doesn't seem— and that's why when you actually said the W thing, I was like, I bet he didn't like, like that. I don't know.

I'm like, you know what? I don't really like it here. Maybe it's the W. Maybe it's like living here. Then I went and got a 5,000-foot house in West Hollywood and I got robbed there and all this other stuff.

Really? You got robbed? Oh my God.

Yeah, they took all my jewelry and half a million cash.

Oh, wow. Do you know who it was? Or is it—

No, I was stupid and naive. And, you know, growing up in Montana, you're raised to trust people. So I'm overly trusting.

Okay.

Because there's not really a lot of bad characters out there. Yeah, there's not malicious people out there that want to hurt you or what you're doing. And so I just was having parties all the time and hundreds of people through the house and You know, I'm sure I had the wrong people through and they were like, we got to come back and take care of this.

Yeah.

So me and Dan, actually, he was like, let's go, bro. Like, I'm warming up the jet. Let's fly to New York. So I'm like, all right, cool. So I meet him at the airport, Van Nuys. And of course, like an idiot, I post on my Instagram something about him and I going to New York. And I think like 150,000 people saw my story. So they're like, yo, I'm sure like, yo, guess who's out of town?

Oh my God.

So yeah, they hit my house. When like 4 masked guys with like— they were pros for sure. They had matching jumpsuits on. Yeah, I saw them on my cameras, right?

Okay.

But they're like— they've— they even had like rubber bands and gloves so like no even like DNA was getting out. So they had like ski masks on with hoods over the ski mask because they swabbed the house for DNA.

That's nuts.

Yeah. And so I hired, uh, I hired 2 private investigators and I had 2 LAPD detectives on it.

Yeah.

Someone had a good Christmas.

Okay. Oh, so they did not get caught. Never.

Wow.

Yeah, that's crazy.

And honestly, the real professionals kind of— detectives were kind of like not interested. They're like, bro, we're dealing with like rapes and murders and stuff. Like, you know, yeah, we'll try, but just to be completely honest with you, this isn't like extremely high on the totem pole.

Yeah.

And that's when I hired the private investigators because I'm like, I need someone working for me. Like, yeah, my best interest. But you live and you learn, and I don't keep cash around anymore. Yeah, because, you know, in my head I'm like Like, you just never know what's going to happen, right? Like, yeah, what if, you know, what if this country erupts in civil war and I need to grab a backpack with a million dollars in it and a couple of guns? Like, yeah, and go to the Caribbean. It's like, I don't know, like, I just like to have, like, I call it like an insurance policy, like, you know, the oh shit. Yeah, and I learned my lesson.

So yeah, so with that, so what happens, you just lose all that, or is there any, like, I mean, what's—

I guess like I can tell the insurance company I had any amount of money, and how do you prove that? Oh, because so they— the insurance company gave me— and so there's jewelry and money.

Yeah, I would—

two hardest things.

Yes.

Oh, I was like probably $750K and stuff. Um, and, uh, just— I mean, so they get the insurance company—

you seem at peace with it now though, I'll say that.

Yeah, it was— yeah, 2 and a half years ago, right?

Yeah, yeah.

No, no, you live in you learn. But yeah, I was pretty upset for a while.

Yeah, okay.

I drank like for a month straight.

Okay, that's fair.

Me and my buddy were getting drunk a lot.

Yeah, but I want to hear some stories in that month.

I don't remember much, but I was depressed. Not because of the money. Well, I was pissed about the money and the jewelry, but I was more pissed about— I felt invaded. Like, I feel like someone invaded my privacy, like I got raped or something. Mm-hmm. And it was like, I worked so hard for that, right? It took me so long to make that amount of money, and they took it in like 5 minutes, you know what I mean? Without any remorse.

Yeah.

It's always more about the act of doing it that really infuriated me more so than losing the materialistic value. Yeah, because I can always make more money, you know. Definitely. I've been extremely broke before, and I'm not scared to be broke again. Like, yeah, I'll still be fine. So it was just It was more about like, you know, losing my, uh, my robbery virginity, I guess.

Gotcha. Well, it was a big one.

Yeah, it was a good hit.

Yeah, they got you. Um, from, uh, one of the last questions I want to ask you from an experience side, like, you know, it seems with Dan and some other things, like, what are some of the like craziest experiences? Not just like girls and stuff like that, but more like traveling and just like some of the things you've been able to—

I mean, like, yeah, I spent like a month in Mexico City. That was crazy. Like it's the most dangerous city in the world. I know it's the second, Tijuana is most dangerous.

Oh yeah, I've been to Tijuana.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Tijuana is a trip, right? But yeah, um, I don't know, I just— traveling to other countries, you really get a sense of how lucky we are in America.

Yeah.

And even the, the lowest level of poverty in America is like almost living better than like the lower middle class of third world countries.

Yeah.

And so when people are out in the streets that I'm watching this year, which is crazy, saying, you know, 'F this country' and 'screw the police' and all this stuff. I'm like, 'You guys have probably never even left your town.' Yeah, I mean, go around the world. There's not a— even where— with the way America sits right now, there's not a better country in the world. And so you should go like fulfill yourself with experience before you start diarrheaing out of your mouth. Yeah, right. Like, I'm telling you, like, with all the government programs and stuff we have, everyone lives here so much better than other countries. Like, Mexico City, like half the population doesn't have running water, you know what I mean? Like they have these big catch basins on their little— on the top of their hut. Yeah, where they cook under coals and they're trying to catch rain to drink and to like scrub themselves off. Yeah, you know, it's just like— and they're over here trying to destroy this country. It's just like mind-blowing to me.

Yeah, so I'm with you.

I mean, those experience I've got— I've gotten to, you know, meet a ton of billionaires. Very powerful people that I probably wouldn't have been able to meet otherwise. Yeah, it's a ton of doors open to where I've had an opportunity to see like the most impoverished, like most poverty-stricken like places, and I've been part of that.

Yeah.

And then, you know, the complete utmost upper echelon of America as well. So I've just seen— I have a unique stance to where I've seen everything along the economic, um, value chain. Yeah. Of our population.

Any like common traits you've noticed with the billionaires?

Just the higher up the economic ladder you go, the shittier people get.

Really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Most people don't get to the top because they're good people. Yeah. And so that's, you know, like coming from, I would say, the lower class in Montana, it's just like everyone's such nice, good people, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah.

And so like I walk into a gas station in Montana and the girl's like, hey, how are you today? I'm like, what's her deal? They're like, she's just happy to be at work, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And like in LA, you go to the gas station, like What do you want? What are you doing here? Right? It's just like, it's a complete contrasting of just how people look at things. Yeah, I just, I don't know, I lost a lot of faith in humanity as I climbed up the economic ladder.

Okay.

Yeah.

Because you just realized, like, with the billionaires, like you said, like, most of them got there by doing maybe some things.

Yeah, I think, you know, and you know what? Yeah, I've met a handful of billionaires that are the sweetest people people in the world.

Okay.

Um, but I would say, you know, 9 times out of 10, they're tyrants, right?

Yeah.

Narcissist, sociopath, like they all have a lot of common traits.

Okay.

Not all, but some, um, because a lot of those traits play hand in hand. Manipulation, right, to get to the top.

Yeah.

So it's just, it's, there's so many games being played the higher up you go.

Yeah.

And the things people will do for big amounts of money are incredible, you know. Like someone will kill you for 10 grand, but what will they do for 100 million, right? Like, yeah, yeah, like, so it's just, I don't know, I just, I was raised in a place where people were good and they tried to do it right. And then I got into the upper echelons of LA and New York, um, and I just saw the other side of human beings. And so, you know, people close to me are like, you seem so cold. And I'm like, I'm not cold, I just, I see the world for what it is. Like, you, you haven't seen down here and up here. Yeah, because most people never see that. They normally stay in their lane.

Definitely. Yeah.

So I just had the opportunity to claw myself out of the gutter to the top, and so I got to see it all.

Yeah.

And it's just sad to see how, you know, how some people think and treat other people.

Yeah, I agree. And we don't, we don't have to get too deep into it, but I'm just curious, like, what do you— because these are very powerful billionaire people, right? Like, what do you think of what's going on right now with COVID everything going— like, do you have any thoughts or perspective on it?

First of all, I was a little bit I was a little bit polarized by the fact that a lot of billionaires and extremely powerful people were on the side of the liberal train. Mm-hmm, right? Like a lot of hedge fund guys and the George Soros of the world. Yeah, why would the— why would these people be all for equal rights and everyone's equal and everyone has the same amount of everything? But really, I realized it's not about that, in my opinion, and this is obviously an opinion. Yeah, I think what's going on is they're trying to create— they're trying to destroy the middle class. Yeah, that's why they're making mom-and-pop shops close, but Walmart's open shoulder to shoulder. Costco's open shoulder to shoulder. Like, if you're a big corporate guy, you're fine, but if you're a mom-and-pop, you can't be open. Now you tell me, where's— where we're gonna spread more COVID, in a Walmart or in a mom-and-pop shop where there might be 3 people in the store?

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? So how does that make any rational common sense? Sense at all.

Yeah, it doesn't to me.

So, but if they can eradicate the middle class and push all these people into poverty, now these people are relying upon the government. Yeah, right. And if they're relying upon the government, the government has astounding amount of power, and it's not ever— it's cemented itself because now these people are feeding off the government, so it's not going anywhere. And they have to continue to vote for the people who are going to feed them, or they're going to starve. So it's like, basically, it's a game of lock. And they've looked— once they have the middle class, because the The middle class is the separator between a free country and being socialist or communist. But if they can eradicate the middle class, then there's going to be such a massive lower class and the wealth disparity will be so great that they're going to have so many people on their side that they're golden. The billionaires now, the reason they're on side for this, in my opinion, is because they're the upper echelon, they're the elites. So if they can cement this new program in place it's going to be 500 times harder for a kid like me to claw my way to the top. Almost impossible, like Europe.

Yeah.

So as long as they're up at the top now and they solidify this new, this new, this basically this new ecosystem, there's no version of them going down here, or their kids, or their grandkids, or their, you know, 17 generations later. They're going to stay up as a sir or a lord or whatever they want to do, right? Yeah, just like Europe. So that's why all these powerful people are on that side and pushing. Yeah, and they have Hollywood with them and they have the media with them and they have social media with them and they've done a great job of ring-fencing everything.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, I think that's what I think's going on.

Yeah, I agree with you.

Because yeah, if you came to me and said, Matt, there's a disease that's spreading like wildfire, its death rate is 35%, you have a 1 in 3 chance of dying if you get it, I'd be like, I'll be at my house. Yeah, I'm not going anywhere. But When I look, I'm very observant, so I just look at different things, and then I put it all together in my head, and I architect things, and then I make decisions based upon that. And when I see politicians making a mockery of their own rules, they wouldn't do that if this was serious. They'd be the most scared ones, 'cause they're getting inside information that we're not even getting. But when I see Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, with 30 of his buddies up in Napa, eating $500-a-plate dinners, and they didn't even show up to the restaurant in masks. And it's just, I don't know if you've seen the picture.

Yeah, I have.

And they're all laughing and having fun. And it's a big joke. If this was really that serious, there's no version of them doing that. And then you got the guy, the mayor from wherever it was at, Texas, just flew to Mexico. He told everybody to stay home for the holidays and then he flies his ass to Mexico to party and have fun.

Yeah.

If this was really that serious, they wouldn't be going anywhere. They wouldn't be doing anything. Yes. And it's just like, I think that if you look around, Americans have had it. Like, people are starting to get restless and they're starting to get fed up with the BS.

Yeah.

You know, and now you're seeing business owners push back. Like, if I'm a business owner and that's my livelihood, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not closing my business because the government told me I have to. The government told us marijuana was the devil for a century. That's a perfect example of how well the government cares about your well-being. They don't. Let's look at the Indians if you want to see how well the government takes care of people. Indians have suffered times 500, right?

Yeah.

And so, and not to mention, the government's a very inefficient machine to manage things, anything. Because I've like, I just watched this program where they were, they built a private bathroom for a park and then the government built the bathroom. The private bathroom was 10 times nicer and it cost $250,000 and got built in, you know, 120 days. The government bathroom cost $3.5 $1.5 million, it's a piece of shit, and it took 3.5 years to get done. Because there's so many people's hands in there grabbing cash to enrich themselves that the project never officially gets done like it would with an entrepreneur.

So what do you think— I completely agree with you, and I always think it's interesting where pretty much everything—

and the more the government overreaches and keeps getting its hands in everything, the worse it's gonna get.

I agree.

Look at Venezuela. Venezuela was a democratic union. Before it became socialistic, and it was the most wealthy country in South America. This idiot who's their dictator now destroyed everything, took, you know, capitalism away, which everyone thinks is evil, but I think it creates very strong countries and innovation. Yep. Um, Venezuela, I don't know if you see anything.

He's actually from Venezuela.

How bad is it?

Yeah, yeah, not pretty.

Yeah, yeah, people will like kill you for a hamburger. Right? Like, people are starving to death. And it was thriving. It had so much oil and everything else. It was the most booming economy. The rest of South America looked up to it. Yeah, they switched from what we have today to socialism, and now people can't eat. Like, you'll attest to it. So let me, uh, radical left liberals, you want to— you want that? Is that what you want? Like, that's what you're saying? Yeah, let's centralize, you know, let's centralize higher education, let's centralize healthcare, let's centralize everything, just have the government take everything. Thing, then what's my incentive to create innovation and to create hundreds and thousands of jobs? Why am I going to work 10 times harder than this guy when we end up getting the same government check every month? I'm not. I'm going to leave the country. And so is every innovative, extremely intelligent entrepreneur. They're going to go to a different country where they have some upside.

Definitely. So what is like— to me it seems like whatever capitalism in the US, this is the best it's ever been built, but do you have like any ideas on like a better way that things could be?

All right, well, here's what I do first of all, and it's not about—

Yeah.

Okay, I would create a flat rate tax for everyone. So no more of this bullshit. You get these write-offs, you get these corporate write-offs, you got 5 private jets, you can write that off. No, it's a flat tax rate, whatever it ends up being. It'd probably be like 16% or I don't know what it was, but it'd be a flat tax rate across the board. Second, I would get rid of career politicians so you could only run for 2 terms.

Okay.

Now that's never going to happen because guess who votes on how many terms they can run? Them.

Really?

Yeah. Do you think they're ever going to take themselves out of office? No. You got to break the system.

Yeah.

Those 2 things would change everything and it would actually put the country in the black for the first time in over a century in pretty short order. I would make it illegal for politicians to participate in businesses that they're voting on. And I would make it illegal for them to go anywhere near inside trading. They all do it.

Yeah.

They've actually given themselves safety blankets to protect them so they can't inside trade. They've passed laws for themselves. But I'm, you know, the founding fathers would be spinning in their graves right now. They'd be disgusted. They didn't build this to create career politicians. They said, do you do two terms, serve for the people and get out and go back to your, you know, cotton farm or whatever you have.

Yeah.

But this was never designed to be like this.

What are your thoughts on that? I was telling him this the other day. I feel like if you— because there's so many perks of being a politician, I feel like there should be like 24— it sounds crazy, but I think there should be 24/7 surveillance.

Yeah, there should be a drone that follows you around everywhere. Yeah, because these politicians are not good people.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like, and they think we're peasants and they think they're above us, right? So like, yeah, when they're with their hoity-toity friends, you know, having these $40,000 dinners. They're laughing at everybody.

Yeah.

You see how many more tents are in L.A. this month? Like, that's the shit they think. Like, they've destroyed California. I was just in L.A. last week. I'm driving down, you know, Sunset. Every business is boarded up. People are just walking with their heads down. There's tents everywhere. You've literally destroyed one of the largest economies in the world. Congratulations.

Yeah.

And now you have Elon Musk leaving. And the big podcast— Joe Rogan.

Yeah, he's in Texas.

Um, who else is— oh, uh, Goldman Sachs leaving New York and coming here. Yeah, so like New York and California either pull your head out of your ass or you're not gonna have any big players to tax. That's what's gonna happen. And once there's no one to tax, there's not any revenue to fix the state. Like, what are you gonna do?

Yeah, I think New York is done too.

New York and California are toast.

Ah, it's—

I mean, real estate values have gone down 30% in those two states since COVID started because people are flooding out. Like, I'm not dealing with this shit. Yeah, it's like totalitarianism. Yeah, nuts.

So, so I'm glad that you think, because to me it's just like, look, if you're going to have all those dinners, you're living so nice, you get to make all the— well, then we should be able to watch you 24/7. Yeah. And actually it's a good trade-off. It is.

No, I love that idea.

Yeah.

Because like, you know, when there's people— literally there's people starving right now.

Yeah.

Because they have no ability to work. They're not getting any help from the government. The government's fighting over stimulus, right? Uh, you know, you have ladies like Nancy Pelosi, she's worth $150 $150 million. You're not smart. How'd you make $150 million? Oh, you were inside trading and cutting backdoor deals as a politician. Weird. And then you go to, you know, they like had a little show interview with her and she's sitting in her multimillion-dollar house in Marin County in the Bay of California showing people how many pints of Ben Jerry's. Oh, I saw that ice cream you have. Like, these people are suffering, can't— they can't feed themselves. And you're showing them how many pints of $10 ice cream you have. Like, Yeah, that's like just like mocking people.

Mm-hmm. And I did not know she was worth that much. That's insane. Something's up.

She's not that smart. Yeah, she's 82 years old. What are you still doing? I won't let my grandma that's 82 drive a car. What are you doing as the third most powerful person in this country? Yeah, you're like a dinosaur. And you know what's funny? If you've watched, politicians are getting older and older. You know why? Because they're— they won't let go of the reins. So The two oldest presidents to ever run were Donald Trump and Biden.

Interesting. Yeah, I didn't think about it.

Because they keep getting older, but they won't give up the power.

Yeah, yeah. That's very— I never thought about it like that, but that makes sense.

So I think you should only be able to run between the ages of 35 and 65, because you have to be 35 to run.

Yep.

And anyone could have won this election, I feel like. Like, it was up for the taking. We had two buffoons. You know, I say that— You can pick between a clown and a village idiot, like take your pick. And it's just like, this is what we're— this is what we've come to, you know what I mean? It's just, it's sad, man, because like I am a big fan of America and I am a big fan of capitalism and free trade and enterprise. And without the system, I would have never had a chance to get to where I'm at today. And that's why I'm such— I'm so— I'm such a big believer in our system because I'm living proof that it can work if you're willing to work really hard and you know, get out of your comfort zone and do things that other people aren't willing to do. And so for people to come in and just start bashing that and wanting to destroy it, it's either because they're uneducated about it or they can't hack it themselves. It's basically another version of survival of the fittest.

Yeah.

Or they want to destroy the country so they can maintain power for the next 5 centuries, right? So, yeah, but the proof is in the pudding. If you look around, America is the best living situation, the most powerful country that the world has ever seen today. That's because of capitalism and democracy. And America has more innovative thinkers and more billionaires than anywhere else in the world. Not per capita in the world. Like, there's— like, we have one quarter of the population of China, but we have more billionaires than China as a whole.

Yeah.

It's because we allowed— said, hey, you know what, if you want to use your brain, which is extremely powerful, to come up with an innovative thing, you can make billions of dollars here. No one's going to stop you. There's no other country like that. China, the government owns, has ownership in a lot of, almost every company in China.

Okay.

Communists own a piece of almost every company.

Yeah, yeah.

So the government's your partner.

Yeah, yeah. I don't think I'd want that.

So I don't know. I look at socialistic and communistic environments and countries and I see that the people are all suffering and only the upper echelon are living very well.

Yeah.

Um, and then, and I just, I'm a data guy, right? I'm not thinking about how it's going to play out. I'm looking at other examples of how it played out.

Yeah.

And I look at America, I'm like, wow, this is where the biggest abundance of a pool of people are living the best, their best lives.

Yeah, that's what it seems to me. That's why it's like common sense.

I'll give you guys a very important quote.

Okay.

That's going to become very important, uh, as this country continues to either diminish or thrive.

Yeah.

And it's, uh, that no great country was ever built upon rewarding laziness.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And so you're voting, like the liberals, for example, you're voting to try and make everyone equal, and you're voting to try to get more government programs in place. You're voting to get more assistance, right? So they're saying, yeah, you can still make $4,000 a month. You don't have to do anything. Just sit home. Just stay. Yeah, right. So it's— but that doesn't, that doesn't end well for anybody. No, including them, because when the country goes under, there's no, no more anything to give them either. Yeah. So they're, they're out in the cold as well.

Yeah. Well, that's the thing too. I just think, like you said, you just look at like what has worked and what hasn't, right? Seems to me every communism socialist like project doesn't work. But every time they're like, oh, like, I'll do it right this time.

Right, right, right. You know, like, really, 800 times they messed it up, but I got this.

Yeah, it's like, doesn't seem so.

You know, I think any type of government structure is far from perfect. Yeah, they all have massive flaws, but I still think democracy is your best bet at success. Yeah, as a country as a whole.

Mm-hmm. Well, dude, thank you so much for coming on. If there's anything else you want to share, please do. But I mean, like, where can people follow your websites?

Yeah, let's see. I have a website, matthewleemorgan.com. I have Instagram, The Matthew Morgan. I have a YouTube channel, Never Sell Dope.

Um, oh, I like that name.

I'm actually considering that as my book title. Oh really?

That's cool.

Okay, so we'll see what happens. It's kind of catchy.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah, we did some fun stuff on there. I used to follow— have camera guys follow me around LA, so there's some of that. Yeah, um, if you want to see that party of Dan's house, it's on there.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, so, um, yeah, that. I have a podcast, uh, Homegrown Hustlers. Um, look for a book to probably drop sometime 2021. And, uh, yeah, just gonna keep on blowing and going, and hopefully Florida is what I think it is.

Yeah, dude, it's awesome here. So thank you again, man. Appreciate it.

Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.