028: Mastering Leadership with Michael Strasner

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst, learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Special edition on Leveling up today. Today, one of my personal coaches and mentors, Michael Strasner, joins us now. If you don't know Michael's work yet, you will. He's a master leader in the work of personal and professional coaching, and he's been doing this for over 30 years. Through his life changing transformative workshops, training seminars, and keynote speaking, he's personally impacted, inspired, and and made a profound difference with thousands of people, including me, throughout the world. Some of his clients include Fortune 500 companies, CEOs, presidents, professional athletes, entertainers, and his specialty entrepreneurs. As an entrepreneur himself, Michael is a true example of leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Today on Leveling Up, I've got my coach and friend, Michael Strange. Michael Strasner has been instrumental in my life. And honestly, Michael, I don't even know if you know this, but this podcast would not be happening if it was not for you. So thanks for being here.

Wow, that's awesome to hear. And I'm excited to be here too, Natalie.

Thank you. So I've been dying to interview you because the theme of what I've been asking so many people is, you know, how they became a huge success. And there is a part of the story that a lot of people don't share, and that's battling their own personal development and getting really real with themselves. And you as a transformational facilitator and an expert in that field, you help people a lot of times really get past things and level up and really be able to create amazing things. So my questions for you are what? I guess the first question is, is there something you see in people that you can tell right away that they've got something that it takes to be successful? Or do you look at everybody as everybody can create amazing things? What goes through your mind when you meet new people and they come into your work?

Okay, so great question. First of all, I am very open to people. I come from a very open place. So what does that mean? That means that I receive people as they are and as they're being I don't have pre judgments about people and hold people in a box or hold them, you know, based on my. My judgments about them. I mean, everybody has a, you know, let's call it a personality. And we meet them and we have a. An immediate experience or reaction or thought or feeling about the person. But I don't take it as real, you know, So I don't, you know, the old. The old adage of don't judge a book by its cover, I don't do that. But what I do is I'm very open to people and I receive them. And then what I do is I connect with how they're being, not what they're doing, saying, you know, like I said, how they look, but how they're being. Do they make eye contact? Are they warm? Are they friendly? Are they kind? Are they generous? Are they fun? Are they high energy? Do they listen when people are talking to them? Are they on their own agenda? Are they present? So basically, I'm looking at them and I'm connecting with them and how they're being and how they're showing up. And then ultimately, what I do is I see what's working and I see what might be holding them back or what might be limiting them. And if I'm coaching them or I'm working with them, then I would roll up my sleeves and be in partnership with them, and I would bring it to their attention, and I would get into a dialogue with them about what they're up to in their life and what their vision is and what they're committed to creating and what their purpose is, and have them start to see what's in the gap or what's in the way. And the whole concept or idea of leveling up, which I love, is really being in a constant state of transformation or change or development. It's not being satisfied with the way I've been or what I've already done or what I've already achieved or accomplished. So it's really having a hunger and a desire to grow. And so what I do is I work with people in what's really possible for them, not in them pontificating about their previous achievements or their, you know, the skills or the talents or the ways of being that they already have that are working for them, working with them to develop those. Those blind spots so that they become more aware of them and then have access to other possibilities. When we can see our blind spots, we then can see that we have other choices and other possibilities. Most people can't see themselves yeah, and.

That'S what I wanted to dive into because that you just said so much good information right there. And I see that people tend to transform, at least from my experience, and you got a much greater experience than this. But people that I see tend to transform when either they've had a really bad rock bottom moment, so it's like a reality check and they're faced with those blind spots they were ignoring, or somebody's pointing them out to them and they're open to it.

Yeah, definitely. I also want to say that I'm going to throw a third category in there where there's something that they want in their life that really matters to them and can impact the quality or the experience of their life. So unfortunately, because what you just said, I think is more true than that. But unfortunately, we have a tendency, I think as people to wait until there's a breakdown or, you know, my husband's leaving or my wife is leaving or I'm being fired, or, you know, my business is going into the tank or whatever it is to wake up and smell the coffee. You know, we don't, we don't have a consistent relationship with our results and a consistent relationship with the feedback that we get. We're always receiving feedback. Feedback is verbal, feedback is statistics, feedback is financial. So we have lots of ways that we receive feedback in life, but we don't receive it, we don't listen to it, we ignore it, or, or we defend ourselves. And you know what? When you defend yourself enough and you are not paying attention to that information, that feedback you're receiving, and you don't take it seriously, you don't embrace it, then often it takes some form of a major breakdown for people to say, yeah, you know, I should have known that about him, or, yeah, you know, I don't know what I missed or, you know, I don't know how I got to this place. And then a lot of your friends or your business associates are looking at you going, what are you talking about? This for five years. I've been saying this to you for two years. You know, I'm your accountant and I've been pointing this out for you, to you for six straight months, that your revenue is going down and your expenses are going up. And unfortunately, that's the way a lot of us are. You know, we're crisis managers. You know, we're great. When the, when the fire is on and, you know, the fires burning up our house, all of a sudden we kick into gear and we wake up out of that slumber and we get into action. But imagine if we could be compelled by a vision or compelled by a purpose or compelled by something that we want that would really have us be an urgency in life versus desperation. I think it would really impact people's lives.

Yeah, you know what? I see this common ground with people that are somewhat successful but just not maybe happy, where they get stuck in that crisis spot that you' talking about. It's like they're constantly creating this crisis and this rush, and then they're busy and they're go, go, go, go, go. And it's just this constant move and they don't see what's going on. And is that what you're talking about with feedback right there that, like, it's just not working? They're not happy and they're not seeing that as feedback?

Well, yes. And I also think that we're conditioned now in our society. It's like the culture has changed so much. I'm 53, I'm almost 54, and the culture has changed so much where we have constant entertainment and constant fun and games at our fingertips and stimulus and we can get anything we want with pressing a few buttons. And we're so, let's say, inundated with high tech and easy, quick ways to get things that I think that to a certain degree, we're kind of numb and kind of disconnected in a lot of ways where we're not present to basic feedback and basic information, basic communication. People forget how to have an actual phone call or an actual conversation because we text, we email. We are constantly, you know, shortening up our messaging to each other, and it's less sensitive, we're less in tune. So I don't think we pay attention. And I think we're bored. I mean, this is a big thing. I think in our culture, people are so bored because they can get everything and anything they want at any moment so easily. Now, I'm not just talking about money. I'm talking about the things. And because everything's, you know, it's so easy for so many people and requires less effort. I also think we're bored by the basic things, you know, so it's almost like we are adrenaline junkies and we need to have some form of a crisis or some form of a. Of a major, you know, breakdown in a relationship or a breakdown in our business or something to wake us up to, wait, wait, you know what? Now I need to do something or pay attention to the feedback. So I think feedback. I think feedback is essential and valuable and it's also subtle and I think it's important. And if we don't listen to it and we don't engage in it, that we're missing out on the opportunities to level up and grow. I mean, how do you grow? How do you break through to new levels? By recycling the past? By pontificating about what you already know? By bragging about your accomplishments? No, you grow and you break through and you level up by. By peeling the next layer of the onion back. By letting go of what you know, by letting go of your attachment to what you've done and really being vulnerable and declaring new commitments and new levels of breakthrough and new levels of accomplishment and new possibilities and immersing yourself in those possibilities.

Well, why is it though that people are so resistant to that? So like you mentioned a lot of things about. We're so convinced that we have to, you know, we don't want to be bored. We want to share what we know. We want to be right. We want to, we don't want the feedback that really I'm hearing ego. People have an ego, a big ego. Where does that, where does that come from? And why, why is that so hard to break through?

Well, I think, I think it. First of all, ego's been around forever. As soon as we, as soon as we as humans essentially decide who we are and we decide what our place is in the world and our place is in life, you know, we make up lots of beliefs and interpretations and stories about ourselves and about the world around us. And then we reinforce those stories and we reinforce those beliefs and that's how we create our ego. So ego really is the separate, isolated self. It's the part of me that thinks that I am X or I am Y or the world is X or the world is Y and it becomes a self righteous interpretation. And so there is the moment that that happens, it limits us and it comes back all the way to early childhood and life experiences and our peers and our school system and you know, the society that we live in, magazines, newspapers, television, our churches, our society, you know, we, what we do is, if you think about kids when they're, they're 10, 12, 13 years old, they're in school and they're going through all of these awkward sort of changes where they're like a child and you know, a teenager or a preteenager. And so we're basically, you know, in confusion about who we are and what our life is about and how we want to be and what we want to say and how to Express ourselves. And all of those things are going on inside. And then, of course, there's all the external stuff that makes it harder. You know, like you're 10, 12 years old, and maybe you want to stand up and speak in a class. You know, the teacher wants to ask a question, and I raise my hand, and all of my friends are giving me dirty looks, you know, or they're making fun of me, or I say something that doesn't make sense, and people say I'm stupid. And so things happen that contribute to us creating these egos and these walls around us that really defend and protect us from the outside world. And what it also does is it limits us, and it makes us small, and it makes us right. And so the whole idea, going back to your premise of your work, about leveling up, is getting off of your ego, letting go of your limitations, letting go of what you've decided about yourself, letting go of your past, and really stepping into your power to create the future. And the power to create the future has nothing to do with ego. It has to do with courage. Has to do with being vulnerable. You know, a leader like a Martin Luther King or an Oprah, you know, they lead with a vision, and they lead with a commitment to cause or create or make a difference not only for themselves, but for the whole world around them. And that requires great courage and vulnerability. And that's what you're doing with your work.

Mm. Mm. Yeah. No, it's a big. It's. It's a big gap for people, and I start to recognizing it, recognize it in others now because I went through. In my own self. And many people listening don't know, or maybe you do know, that I went through a big process of transformational work. That's how I met Michael. And really seeing everything that you're talking about, about how these things were in my gap, and I noticed them in others now, too. So it's this. And what's interesting is what you're saying is that it really. It's nothing that you're deciding to have. You're not deciding to have an ego or be right. It's just. It sounds like it's coming from things in your childhood or in past, and it's a protection method. So, like, you gave the kid being made fun of when they stand up, and then they form a belief about themselves, and that keeps replaying in their life.

Yeah. And they. And they protect themselves by what? By not taking risks. So if I. So when you're. So when you're young, if you take risks and you fail, or people laugh at you, or they make fun of you, or you be. You get ridiculed, then the tendency is to shut down. The tendency is to play small, to clam up. If you are, let's say, vulnerable in a relationship, your first boyfriend, your first girlfriend, you know you're opening yourself up to this person and you're trusting them, and they tell you that they have feelings about you, and then they cheat on you or, or they break up with you. Even if it's not cheating, they just say, this isn't working for me and I want to move on. Then what happens is we're hurt. And when we're hurt, the tendency is to pull back and to put up a wall, to put a wall between me and other people so that I won't have that experience again. And whenever we have painful moments or painful events or painful experiences, the. The survival mechanism called ego steps in and says, michael, you've got to protect yourself. Don't let that happen again. You can take it into the business world. Let's say you start a business and you're passionate, you're committed, you're driven, and you do whatever it takes and you come up with the money and you've got your plan, and then you put that plan in action and your heart is in it, and everything you have goes into that business. And it fails or it flops. Well, unfortunately for most people, they don't make up a story that the business flopped and what I did didn't work. Or what could I learn from this so that I can be more effective the next time I get out there? What people make up is I'm a failure, I'm a flop. I can't do it. I'm a loser. I'm never going to be successful. And then what do they do? They take a job. They take a job, they settle. Because that's something that they can control. It's something that's safe.

Hiding. They start hiding, they're not go through that again, so I'll make it easier on myself. And then you have the opposite. You have the opposite too, though, Michael. There's people that could take the opposite. It's the economy's fault, it's the customer's fault, and they start blaming everyone. What's that when they do that?

Well, it's called victim. And the thing is, is that that doesn't fix anything either. So even if it. Even if it's all true, if the economy is bad, if, you know, it wasn't me, but it was my sales rep, or if it was my business partner, or if it was. Whatever the story is, it doesn't matter because being a victim never produces a breakthrough. It never produces any kind of new level for me. All it does is reinforce my story that it failed or I failed. And then there's no breakthrough that happens. There's no growth. In my experience, in the work that I've been doing for 30 years, coaching and causing and creating leadership and other people, one of the biggest and most powerful distinctions is responsibility. And responsibility means I am the cause and I am the source of everything, the good, the bad and the ugly. So if it's working, it's me. If it's not working, it's me. And that is a huge pill for a lot of people to swallow. But it's the only way for them to have any power. If you blame your husband or your business partner or the economy when things don't go your way, how are you ever going to have the power to create a new possibility?

Yeah, I, you know, I absolutely love this and I know there's so many lines I've gotten from you. Like you have mantras that repeat in my head daily now, like, if it's to be, it's up to me and you. I know that you live this and you teach it and I accept it. What I want to know is how does somebody accept it when it's really something terrible it's happened to them, like a child of abuse? Or like how do they somehow accept responsibility so they can have that freedom?

Well, first of all, let's be clear. Fault, blame, guilt, those are not responsibility. When I talk about responsibility, I'm talking about it from a philosophical place. I'm not talking about it from a place of the way we interpret responsibility in society. In our society's definition, when we say the word responsibility, we're really talking about blame. Who's at fault? Like when I was a child and I, I broke something which truly happened, I broke a window in my house. You know, my father sat me down and gave me a two hour lecture on how I'm responsible for the broken window. And the thing is, is that he wasn't in any way, shape or form really coaching me about being responsible. He was basically saying, you're to blame, you're at fault, you're bad, you're wrong, and what you did is not acceptable. So what I interpreted from that is, is that my breaking the window meant something about me as a human being versus I just did something that didn't work, and I could have made a different choice. And I will be more conscious and be more aware next time I'm in that situation. I came out of there beaten down, small, you know, feeling really horrible about myself. I don't matter. I'm not good enough. You know, the window mattered more than me. That's how I interpreted it.

Your dad would have probably not thought that he was saying that, but that's the story that you made up or what you took from that comment.

Exactly, Exactly. Exactly. And so the idea of responsibility in a philosophical sense really is saying that I have the power to create whatever vision or declaration or whatever it is that I want. And so it's giving me the authority me, the authorship of my feelings and my choices and what I do with my life. So many of us have had traumatic events in our childhood, traumatic events in our teenage years and in our personal relationships, in our business lives. We've had lots of traumas. And the thing is, is that even if they are all true, and even if the horrible things that I think happen to me or I feel happen to me really did happen, and there is factual evidence to support it, the only way that I can stand up in my life and alter my life so that I can find happiness or I can find joy, or I can find the confidence in myself or regain the courage or the power to create the life I want is for me at some point, to be able to let go of that pain. I'm not saying that the pain is not real. Of course it's real. But as long as I hold on to that pain and I hold on to the beliefs that I have about that pain, and as long as I continue to beat myself up for that pain that happened because of that event or that experience, then what I'm doing is I'm depriving myself of freedom. I'm depriving myself of having the ability to let go and move forward and create the life I want. It's almost as if I'm replaying the same movie over and over again in my mind. It's like Groundhog Day. Did you ever see the movie Groundhog Day?

Yeah, absolutely. And it's like. It's a. It's a pattern. And I see this everywhere. And I, you know, you. I learned a lot of this from you. And one of the patterns that I personally experienced in my life was I had a thing around money where I would almost get embarrassed if people had nice cars or nice clothes or, like, it would embarrass me. And I was like, where is this coming from? Because I like nice things. I, you know, I like, I work hard, I want nice things. And I trace it back based on a lot of that I learned from you to a pattern as being a kid and being burglarized and my parents saying, when you have nice things, people want to take them. So it was a, it was a belief I formed. You have nice things, people want them, you're in danger. So it's a pattern. And I see that that happens everywhere. It's really what you just spoke into. It just, it happens all the time.

Well, and like you said, I mean, that's a very, that's a very scary thing to implant in a child's mind because it might have been true for your parents or true for your dad, or true what they were feeling or thinking in the moment. But the thing is, is that we, you know, us, you know, individually, we're impacted by thoughts of our mothers, thoughts of our fathers, thoughts of our older siblings, our grandparents, teachers, priests, ministers, people that are in authoritative roles. You know, we're impacted by things that they say. I remember one time when I was a kid, and this is one of my, one of my trauma moments. One time as a kid, I was talking to friends of my parents and these friends of my parents really liked me. Like, they said lots of nice things to me and they were very complimentary of me. And you know, I couldn't believe it. I was like, I had this moment of joy and moment of feeling like I really matter. And I was having a fight with my mother, which was, by the way, standard operating procedure. So I'm having a fight with my mother. And it was probably two days later and I said to my mother in the middle of the fight, I said, mom, how come you are the only person that says this to me? All of your friends say so many nice things, they say so many compliments. And my mother said back to me, because they don't know you. Oh, okay. So just think about that. Because they don't know you. Five words.

Wow.

Five words hit me like a two by four right between my eyes. And it implanted inside of me this powerful belief that my mother must be right. They don't know me. My mother lives with me every single day. Maybe she's right. Maybe all these years that I'm making up these stories that it's really my mother that's off and, and my mother doesn't get it and whatever, maybe she's the one who really gets it. And I don't so my confidence was rattled, my self worth was rattled. I just completely gave my power away to my mother. And here is the point I want to make about that. I could have lived the rest of my life the next 40 years, because that happened when I was like, I don't know, 13. So I could have lived 40 years of my life holding a grudge against my mother, being a victim of my mother, hating my mother, you know, thinking bad things about women that, that women are not, you know, that women can be mean and vindictive and, you know, I can't trust them with my heart. And I could have made up all these stories that, that spawned from that moment. And what I did was I chose to let go and forgive not only my mother, but also myself for all of those thoughts I had and interpretations I had that were stopping me and holding me back from creating the life I want. And what is the result of that? I transformed my relationship with my mother. Now, my mother is one of my best friends. My mother is one of my closest relationships in my life. I talk to my mother, you know, three times a week. She opens up and shares with me about everything, anything, her feelings, her emotions. She trusts me. I'm her coach, I'm her support. I'm the first person she calls when she's up against it or challenged about something in her life. And I never thought that would ever be possible. I never thought I could ever even be in the same room with my mother and have love and joy and a desire to connect. And so we all have experiences like that. And it isn't that it isn't true. It isn't that it isn't real. Those painful events do happen and did happen. And you have no right to have to get off it. You have zero right to have to let it go. You can be right about it and hold onto it forever if you choose it. And the thing about that is, as long as you do, then you are saying to yourself that I don't get to have my dreams, I don't get to have freedom, I don't get to have true joy. I don't get to have true love or true intimacy or true trust. Because what happened to me happened, and I'm not letting it go. What happened to me happened and I refuse to release it. It becomes a recycled movie that I play over and over again forever, and the only one who loses is me. I lose.

Okay, so I have so many questions here because obviously if this happens, then you're also going to not only replaying it, you're going to find other evidence. So you had anyone that, that says something like that, it's gonna, it's gonna really trigger you or you're really gonna, it's gonna, A teacher says something like that to you, like, oh, must be true. So you keep doing that. How, first of all, how did you recognize this pattern? Like, how did you even figure it out? And then how do you break it and fix it and decide that, well.

This is where transformational work and transformational education comes in. So I did a very powerful, life altering leadership training when I was 21 years old and I did not know these patterns. I wasn't aware, I had no idea at 21 years old that the things that happened to me in my past life, those first 21 years, were impacting my life at 21. I mean, I would have, in my wildest dreams, never thought that who I am today or how I show up today was the sum total of the past. But it was absolutely the sum total of the past. And I recognized that by going through this leadership training process that I did in Los Angeles, California in 1986. And when I went through this process, I went through these different exercises and games and activities and I met people and I opened up to people and they opened up to me and we learned from each other. And through this process, I, I became aware through feedback, going back to the value of feedback, I became aware of how I was showing up in my life now, how I was being in my life now, and connecting the dots to where they came from, where it began. And retracing that path gave me the power to see how everything is cause and effective, that there are no accidents, there are no random ways of being. You know, it's not like I Woke up at 21 years old and I decided to be insecure out of the blue. Or I Woke up at 21 and I decided to have a chip on my shoulder, or I Woke up at 21 and I decided to be unworthy. Those conversations, unworthiness, insecurity, rebelliousness, not trusting people, that was the sum total of the first 21 years of my life and the different experiences and events I had with my mother, with my father, with my brother, with my culture, where I grew up, my environment, and my interpretations of the different events that occurred and different experiences that I had. And so by becoming aware of how I'm being, aware of how I'm showing up, aware of how I'm being in relationship to other people and the world around me, that awareness gave Me, choice, real choice, comes from awareness.

Now, I love that about awareness and feedback. And I. And I'm. I agree with you on all that. And what I want to know what's so interesting is that people have a really great awareness of what they owe financially. They have a great awareness of what their weight is, like, all these things, but they. Nobody wants that awareness of, like, how they come off to people or what's in their gap. So, one. Why is that? Why. Why are people so scared to learn that? And how does it work? Like, how do you get the right feedback and become aware?

Well, first of all, think about our culture. We have. We have a lot of different. Let's call them cultural beliefs. We're domesticated in our culture. We have sayings. For example, if you have nothing nice to say, mm, don't say anything.

Yes. Yes. And that hurts people, right? Because everything's fake. Oh, you did great on stage today. Even though they sucked and now they think they're great and they go, speak again. You know, what is that?

Well, it's. It's called approval. Telling people what they want to hear so that they'll like me. It's dishonest. It's inauthentic. It's fake. It's. It's shallow. It's superficial. It glosses over things in order to, quote, unquote, make things okay. And that goes back to, you know, the idea of ego and survival. So in ego and in ego, survival is being okay. There's nothing great about being in your ego. There's nothing extraordinary about being in your ego. There's no joy in being in your ego. There's no freedom in. And being in your ego. What there is, is okay. Think of being okay as grabbing on to anything you can hold onto and squeeze it as hard as you can with both hands, you're okay. It's about being in control, about being safe, about being comfortable. You know, a lot of us refer to it as comfort zone. So ego and comfort zone are the same thing. When you hear the words comfort zone, though, it gives you an illusion that comfort zone is somehow like a spa. It's not a spa. It's the mediocre zone. It's where you're existing and just getting by. And so we're culturally impacted by survival and being okay and getting by and don't rock the boat and don't tell people the truth because they don't want to hear it. And, you know, the thing is, is that, you know, some of us through. Through our lives have been Lucky enough, and I do use that word, lucky enough to be in situations where we have experienced coaching, for example, being on a sports team or being on a debate team or being, you know, on a cheerleading team. And there's lots of different types of, let's call them groups or teams where you receive feedback. Maybe you were a musician and you played in the band and played for 7, 10 years at a band. So you have an instructor, you have a piano teacher, you have a conductor to the band, and they're coaching and giving feedback and giving input and let's do it again and let's take it from the top. But if you had a ballet instructor, let's do it again. And. And know you get to point your toe in this direction and your hand gets to be in that direction and on and on. And so by having those different opportunities, I do believe that inside of this comfort zone, ego, survival context that we are in, we also have these moments where we are receiving incredibly valuable pearls of wisdom from people who, and I'm going to use these words, care enough about us to be honest.

Yes.

And in that caring enough about us to be honest experience, they're holding us high or higher than we hold ourselves or holding us in a level of excellence or ability that either we don't see or we don't expect or we don't even know is possible. And those are the people that have a profound impact on us, whether it was a teacher or a coach. Everybody's had people like that. The issue is we don't have enough of those people. And it's not enough in our culture, in our norm.

No. And it really. I was going to ask you about that next because we were making the problem worse. I know. Especially in public schools now. You know, I remember as a kid when we were in PE and we'd have a sport, we would line up on two lines and somebody would stand up at the front and they would alternate picking who's on their team and somebody would be last. And that was feedback, you know, but that was. That's not acceptable. We don't do that anymore. Or, you know, the winners of the team, the best athletes would get the award. And now everybody gets an award, a participation award. So what is that creating? Because now everybody's playing nice and baking it and trying to make everybody happy, and there really is no feedback in a lot of cases.

Well, I think both don't work. Like, there's gotta be a happy medium somewhere between survival of the fittest, which was when we were kids, you know, so line them up and choose them. And you know, there's winners and there's losers. So let's say that, let's say that that doesn't work because that's almost like the TV show Survivor and it creates Survivor. You know, look at all the gossip. I mean, how popular those reality TV shows are. You know, you see all the gossiping happening and strategizing. And I want to get so and so on my team. And I want to get so and so. Is that not 13 years old, middle school right there? No, it is.

And it's how I lived my life. I think until last year there was winners and losers, you know, because that's how I was raised.

Yeah, well, so was I. So was I. And it's a, and it's a dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, ego conversation. And that's, you know, that's the culture that we, that we live in. And so, yes, let's say that the pendulum has swung from us at 13 in that mode to now, the mode that we're in today, which is the participation trophy and everybody, quote, unquote, is a winner. Obviously that doesn't work either because now I think it feeds right into the laziness that I believe that so many of our, of our culture, so many of our children and our culture are getting, and they're getting it from our parents and they're getting it from the environment, which is really like a reaction to the past. You know, the tendency is when one generation has an issue with the way that they're being raised, then they change it when they get to that next level. And often it's a reaction to the previous generation. And so I think that that's probably like an extreme swinging of the pendulum to the other way. So now everybody gets a trophy, but does everyone really deserve one? Does everyone really earn one? How do we differentiate between winning and underperforming? You know, if everybody gets a medal? And I personally believe that responsibility and personal responsibility is essential towards growth and developing and leadership. And it doesn't matter if it's a child or if it's an adult or if it's a business leader or a political leader. Responsibility is essential to growth and leveling up and transforming to new levels. And so that's something that we need to really work at. And I believe we need to really, you know, stand for in our school system and in our parenting.

So, okay, gosh. Oh, my gosh. I could be on the phone with you. I could be recording you literally for Hours. There's so much good information here. So what I want to know is if someone is in a spot right now, like they're, they're going through a hardship or a business has failed or whatever it is, and they're, they get, they're hearing you like, okay, I got to take a personal responsibility. I got. It's probably something in my past that I've created this. They're starting to hear this. What would you suggest? There are three pieces of advice you would give them to start looking at things differently and to get out of their rock bottom spot.

Yep. Okay. The very first thing is 100% honesty. The only way to get out is to get in.

What does that mean?

You got to first get off denial, pretending it's not as bad as it really is.

Okay.

Like, if you're in your shit, you know, don't just be a little bit or mildly in it. Be in it, own it, acknowledge it, Be in the experience. So, so many of us are medicating our experiences. We're always looking for a way out of pain or a way out of, you know, feeling sad or being broken hearted. And so we're looking for ways to fix it, to medicate it. That's why so many people drink alcohol. And that's why pot has got, you know, I mean, I thought pot was a big deal when I was, you know, a teenager. Pot has got such a resurgence. It's being grown in fields all over California and, you know, legally in many states. So these are forms of medication. And so we've got alcohol, we've got pot, we've got surfing the Internet, we've got video games. There are so many ways to do what I call medicating, coping with pain. And again, what does that do? It gets us to okay, but it doesn't get us to break through. It doesn't get us to transform, doesn't get us to a new level, and it certainly doesn't get us to a place where we can let it go. So you can't let anything go until you face it. So face it, Experience it. If you're sad, be sad full on. If you're angry, be full on angry. If you're frustrated, be full on frustrated. So I'm not saying hurt anybody, including yourself. I'm saying experience your feelings, experience your emotions, experience your thoughts. Find a friend that you can talk to openly who will allow you the space to, to vent. You know, I call it venting. Think of it like, you know, there was a basketball player a number of years Ago, very popular, but he was off the wall. His name was Dennis Rodman. Okay? So I was never a Detroit Piston fan. Certainly, I'm a. I'm a Boston Celtics fan. So there were rivals. But one thing I loved about Dennis Rodman was Dennis Rodman would have these moments where he would go ballistic, where he would just let it rip, you know, and not care about what people think, how he looks, not care about keeping it together or being in control. And certainly didn't care about being okay. He was fully venting. And so he would release and let go and have this, like, Rodman moment. And then he would come back and all of a sudden be an absolute superstar. Like, I am telling you, this guy was one of the most underrated players in the history of basketball. One of the greatest contributors in NBA history, won several NBA titles. But how could he have become that way? He didn't have the talent. He was a horrible shooter. A horrible shooter, could not make easy baskets. But he became a tremendous factor because he was able to release and let go and clear himself of whatever it was that was holding him back and in his way, and then find a way to be a major contributor. So I call it the Rodman moment. You vent, you release, you let go, you experience your pain, you experience your feelings. You find a friend, or you go to a truck training, and you participate in that training. There are several trainings that are incredibly powerful, extraordinary, and will really not just give you an opportunity to alter your life, but give you the tools to alter your life forever. But also, you could find a coach and work with that coach. But whatever it is, the first step is to acknowledge it, to experience it, to face it, to release it and let it out.

You said the only way out is through. And that's what. That's what you mean by that, then?

Yeah, because you can't get through. Everybody wants to get through pain, but they want to do it without experiencing it. They want to take a pill.

And what's the danger if that happens? Like, if you just want to numb it and you don't do it? Tell people why that backfires, why that doesn't work well.

Transformation. New possibilities. Breakthroughs don't happen when you put lipstick on a pig. A pig is a pig, okay? And until you face it and you confront it, then all you're doing is putting a band aid on it. Let's say my heart is broken. So if my heart is broken and I go to the doctor and I say, my heart is broken, can you help me? The doctor doesn't give you an Aleve and send you home. You know, there's got to be a way to heal the broken heart. And we get to find out how to do that and to release and let go of frustration. And we get to find a way to do that. And by medicating it with drugs or alcohol or sleeping or being a workaholic or surfing the Internet, playing video games, smoking pot, any of. And all of those things, they're a Band Aid. And the Band Aid is only temporary relief, but it does not resolve the issue. And there was a fantastic infomercial about 25 years ago, one of the most famous and first infomercials that really changed late night marketing and advertising. Remember the Susan Powder commercial?

Yeah, of course.

Okay, so the definition of insanity is to continue to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Stop the insanity. Remember, she would talk about that. Stop the insanity. Well, that's transformation. When you stop lying to yourself, it's insane to lie to yourself over and over again expecting different results. So let's put somebody out in the real world. If you're 35 years old, you're dating someone, you've been dating this person for six months, and all of your girlfriends do not think he's right for you, who do you listen to? Him or your girlfriend?

Probably him.

And then guess what's going to happen? And guess what your girlfriends are going to be saying at happy hour in six months when you're drowning in your tears, in your margarita.

We told you.

We told you. And you're going to cry and you're going to be mad and you're going to be sad and you're going to be frustrated and they're going to be rolling their eyes or they're going to be saying, well, gee, Natalie, I told you about this. You didn't listen to me. And so that's what we do. And you know, we get into this pattern where we'd rather be right than happy, we'd rather be right than free, we'd rather be right than extraordinary, we'd rather be right than matter and have our value show up in life and in the world. So this is. So the idea here is if you truly are going through a trauma or a breakdown in your life, the first step is to acknowledge it, to experience it, and to let it out and let it go. When you can do that and truly experience it fully, to let it go, you're in a clean space.

Yeah, that's a clean slate then. So, okay, so you do that you feel, whether you go through a transformational program or you're doing the work yourself, or you're being doing the, what you call it the Rodman effect, or that you're taking that on, you're stopping the insanity, you're going through that. That could take a while, but you go through that. What do you do next then? Because now you have a clean slate. If you feel the feels and you go through it.

Okay, well, when you're in a clean space and a blank canvas, now you check back in, what do I want? What's important to me, what matters to me? And start to formulate a vision. Visions come from a blank canvas. Visions are not created operating on top of, of something else that already exists.

So say that again because that is huge right there. Because so many people in their rock bottom before they feel the fields are trying to create a vision and that doesn't work. So say what you just said again because that was huge.

Yeah. So when I'm in a clean space, from a clean space, from a blank canvas, I stop and check in with myself about what matters, about what's important to me, what my vision is, what my purpose is. And I start to really create and formulate a vision for my life and a vision for my future. And I'm doing it from the blank canvas, I'm doing it from the clean space. I'm not doing it in reaction to the past. I'm not doing it in reaction to something that just happened that didn't work. Because that's not a vision, that's a judgment or a reaction. It's not in a clean space.

So when you're clear, you're free and you have this blank canvas, that's when that's time. And if you like, I talk about vision boards, like making a vision board or thinking about what it is that you want. Ask. I know you talk a lot about asking yourself, what do you want? And going deep on that. Yep, that's amazing. Okay, so you have your vision and then what's next? Because there's three. So what?

Okay, so I create a vision. So out of my really checking in and creating and authoring this vision for my life and for my future, what I would do is I would create a long term vision. So it could be a general vision. Like my vision is to create love and joy, adventure, freedom, win, win in all of my relationships. So that's a general vision. That is a vision for who I am and what I stand for in everything in my life, professionally, personally. Like that So a vision could look like that. A vision also could look something more specific. My vision is to create an amazing relationship, like a 10 out of 10 with the man of my dreams who is honest, authentic, responsible, a partner, someone who has a shared set of values with mine, someone who I like, someone who I'm attracted to. In other words, like, like it could look like that too. So the vision is more specific. It's focused on a relationship, but it's focused on the aspects of the relationship that I want and the aspects of my relationship or the relationship that are possible. It's not. My vision for my relationship is to have someone who doesn't lie to me all the time, someone who doesn't cheat and someone who is, you know, isn't a, you know, self righteous and isn't defensive like John was and da da, da, da da. See, that's not a vision. That's a reaction to the past. That person's not in a clean space.

No, I'm just gonna, I just put that together that you're right. If you're reacting from that, that turmoil without feeling the feels, you're making that crazy vision that's not going to work again. And that's what pattern repeats.

Yeah, because then what you're really doing is you're saying I'm going to be the same person now that I've always been. I'm going to be doing the exact same things that I've always done and do and I'm going to have the exact same results. I'm just going to have a story about it.

Yeah, this is good, you know that.

Let me give you, let me give you something else to think about because this is a key part. So, so do you know that the divorce rate for people married a second time is higher than for the first?

No, I didn't know that.

Okay. Yeah, it's almost double the first. So we could check out the exact stats now, but it used to be 80% like that high. Okay. So it may have changed somewhat, but it's so extraordinary and it's much higher the second time around. That is the first. And I assert to you, given I'm a trainer and I've trained hundreds of thousands of people over the last 30 years. What I experience is that the lack of responsibility, the lack of vision, the lack of self awareness, the lack of emotional intelligence, the lack of receiving feedback and really using the feedback, people wanting to be stuck in their victim story and being right about their victim story and that produces that cycle to repeat itself over and over again. Which goes back to my point. If you're a victim and you have a legitimate reason to be a victim, and it isn't a story, but it really happened, and it's a fact or certainly feels that way to you, the only person you're ultimately going to continue to hurt and will suffer from that victim conversation and story is you. Because everything you do for the rest of your life will be filtered out of that belief. And that belief impacts every choice you make, every decision you make. And my dream is for people to have freedom. My dream is for people to get their power back. My vision is for people to get that they matter and that their voice is essential and that they have the power to create anything they declare in their life. And how are they going to do that unless they get it?

This is so powerful. Michael. I know everybody. I'm going to. I'm going to have to do more interviews with you because we just didn't even scratch the surface here. So where do people. You got to. You have two books. Can you talk about those two books and where people can find you and where they can get more?

Yes. So, first of all, people could find me on michaelstrasner.com so I have a website that talks about my book, the book that I put out a couple of years ago, it's called Living on the Skinny Branches, and it's on Amazon. And it was a number one bestseller, which was a huge accomplishment. I was very excited about that. And that book really talks about my journey and transformation and how I went from having lots of victim stories and feeling like I don't matter and that I don't have what it takes to create an extraordinary life and how I was able to face that, confront that, experience it, let it go, declare a vision and a purpose for my life, and then bring it into being. And I've been doing that for the last 30 years and giving it away to thousands of people. And so the book basically talks about not only how I did that, but how other people can do that, too, and the process that they can do. And my next book, which is coming out in the next, let's say two months, so it's probably in the next two months, is on mastery of leadership. So it's a mastery leadership book. And that one is going to be based on the principles, actually that I've been working with you and coaching you about in the MLP program at ALA. And that one is based on my 12 mastery leadership distinctions and how you can incorporate that into your professional and personal life into every vision you have and everything that you're committed to accomplishing that matters to you and how you can do it in the highest level possible.

Yeah. And you're phenomenal at what you teach and it's really, really insightful and it lands for people and it's really, it's truly changed my career, changed my vision. It's been super helpful. So highly recommend that. Thank you Michael so much. And so I have all of that information, your books, your where to find him and the training classes that Michael teaches, he teaches them all over the place. But the two that I've been heavily involved in our alasandiego.com and then heartcore leadership also. Thank you Michael.

Natalie, it's been a pleasure. I love you and I love your vision and I love what you're up to and what you're creating with your family and you know, in your, in your new level as you're leveling up to your next level in leadership and creating extraordinary results through your coaching. So it's a privilege to talk to you and work with you and partner with you and what you're up to.

Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review, I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable. And come interact with me over on Instagram @nataliejofit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.

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