Stop Taking Fish Oil: The Truth About Cellular Health in Midlife

You can't be in midlife without hearing about hormones. We hear HRT, bioidentical patches, pellets, testosterone, progesterone. That's the entire conversation. And we seem to blame like everything going wrong or symptoms with it must just be my hormones. But hormones are not actually the whole problem. You know, our hormones are doing what they're supposed to do. The problem is these quiet systems inside our body that have started breaking down. When these are broken, the hormones we have, the hormones we make, the hormones we add in and take, they just cannot land. They can't do their job. So when we keep adding more, more HRT, more testosterone, higher estrogen, more patches, and we still don't feel right, we still have that brain fog, we still have bloating, and we still have that skin that's not amazing, we still wake up, uh, weird hours and we're not recovering, there's likely something else going on. Like the building blocks underneath those hormones, they are probably gone or just not working as efficiently. So today we're going to get into these. We're going to talk about the actual mechanics, the science of what's breaking down a midlife woman's body and these 3 foundational supports that my guest's family has been researching since 1998, before anyone in wellness was using the word cellular, by the way. Now everyone uses that word, but before that, this is when they were doing this. So my guest is Jessica Kane-Berman. She's the co-owner and chief brand officer of BodyBio, third-generation family-owned company. Her grandfather Ed Kane founded almost 3 decades ago. So he was a Wall Street biochemist who left to research just the cell. So Jessica's going to walk us through everything, and I want to share with you all, I have been a longtime customer customer of theirs. I've been using many of their products, so it was me that reached directly out to them initially about this conversation because I wanted to understand more and go deeper. So thank you for being here today.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation.

I've got a lot of questions for you today, so I'm gonna go deeper here because I feel like every woman— you can't be in midlife without hormones being a big part of the conversation. Like, we— that's like the front and center conversation. Whether it's what's wrong with my hormones, or I miss my hormones, or I should be on HRT, or I can't do HRT, or it's like, it's just, that seems to be this, this conversation. Like, people either wildly for it or against it. It's just, that seems to be the front and center topic. But what's going on in our bodies from your perspective that is outside of just hormones?

There's 3 main systems that need to work in order for hormones to be processed. And, you know, delivered, received, and cleared out from the body. Hormones are messengers, but they have to land somewhere in order to actually fulfill what the message is. Right. And that is actually on this bubble that is your cell membrane. They land literally on— women have 32 trillion cells. Every single cell, every mitochondria has this protective barrier around it. And that is exactly where hormones land. And so if that bubble is broken down, which happens with age, happens in our world that we live in today, we're having worse leaky cells than ever before. And then these hormones aren't working the way that they should. So a lot of people who have started hormone replacement therapy or are going through kind of menopause and beyond are still not feeling well even though they're using it. This is exactly why, because the place where they're landing is broken to begin with.

Why aren't enough people bringing this up? Like, I feel like this is just not a conversation, which we just—

it's technical.

Yeah.

It's, it's not sexy. It's super technical. Peptides, sexy, interesting, different. But, you know, we don't often think— it's so esoteric and a bit odd to think about, like, how's the health of each cell in the body? And like, it's, it brings you back to like high school biology. And so I, I honestly attribute it to the fact that it's not sexy, it's not well understood, and it's difficult to study. You can't just like go in and extract these cells and take a look at how the phospholipid membrane is doing.

Yeah.

And so it makes makes it quite complex. And what we know is really through anecdotal data, it's through the clinical research that we've been doing, and it's through working with doctors for so long and understanding how biology works. When we are born, we have a lot of these healthy fats that make up our cells. And as we age, all of those numbers start to decline.

Hmm. So you say that there's— okay, first of all, I want to talk about our body as a whole.

Yeah.

There's parts that are slowing down. There's— in fact, you say that there's sort of 3 parts that are slowing down. Can we break that down? Like, I want it as simple as we can make it.

So let's think about it in the simplest terms, because when I say cells, they're all— they make up every system in our body, including our skin, our liver, our gut. But I often think about it because we attribute brain fog so closely to, like, hormones and the different phases of aging that women go through. And so let's just focus it to brain. Okay. Although that means cells.

Yep.

Your liver, and your gut. Okay. So where the cells, where the hormones are delivered is in those cells. Okay. In the brain, right? Where they are received and processed, liver. And where they're cleared out, gut. And so a few things are happening as we're aging and these systems are starting to slow down. And this is occurring at the cellular level. The wall of every single cell, think of it like a tiny little house, and the bricks are starting to just kind of fall apart., and you're ending up with this leaky cell, and that wall is getting thinner and thinner, and the doors just are not working as well, right? So that is affecting your brain function. That is also affecting every other system in your body. Then you have your liver.

Okay.

And you have this stagnant bile that is building up. And how many women do you know have had their gallbladder removed? Yeah. Or have had gallstones or have gallbladder problems? This is stagnant bile. This is when bile gets sticky and stuck and can't move out of the gallbladder. It can't go to the liver to help process all of these hormones. One really great way of thinking about it is bile is like your body's trash truck., right? It carries used hormones out of the body into the gut. And then you have the lining of our gut. And that is just, we all have gut dysbiosis. It's, I mean, how many women are constipated, have diarrhea, they're fluctuating in between, bloating is constantly an issue. It's this wallpaper, this lining of our gut starts to just break down as we age. And we're not able to get the nutrients that each of these systems need through our food enough. Particularly for women, unfortunately.

So we hear these interesting things that you're— now, you're— I like how you're tying it back for us. Like, we'll hear things like stagnant liver. No one's really understood what that meant. So, and I say, I like that you brought that up. So if I'm hearing you correctly, when someone— when you hear stagnant liver, or it's basically that bile, that stuff, it's the trash truck, it's just not working, or it's in a traffic jam. Is that the way it's flowing?

It's stuck in a traffic jam.

Okay, it's stuck in a traffic jam. And how common is that? Is this like a very common thing with most people? Okay.

It really is. I mean, anybody who's not able to eat eggs, anyone who has problems with digesting proteins or fats, if you have floating stool, it's everybody. Nobody has a perfectly working liver. Look at the rates of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. I mean, they're rampant. Yeah. And our livers are so integral for detoxifying and processing so many of these things. And so, it's one of the most important parts of health that is just overlooked.

So, so many times we hear, "Let's do this because it will bypass the liver," or like, "Take transdermal." But what I'm hearing is like, fine, that might be okay, but why would we not want to just fix the system?

Yeah, get the liver working properly, get the gallbladder pumping out that bile and working properly. This actually really happened to me in between having two of my children. I had those, that like gallstone type pain. I would eat eggs and I would be killed over in pain. My mother had her gallbladder removed. My grandmother had her gallbladder removed. And so I knew that was an Achilles heel, right? That's a genetic weakness that I have. And you just need the right nutritional support to get that flowing and moving again. And it's actually very simple. It doesn't have to be so difficult.

When people have this, they don't have that pain, like not everybody has the pain or they don't feel like that with eggs and they don't maybe have floating stools. How would else would this be showing up in our bodies? How do we know we might have this happening? Yeah.

Annual blood tests for liver enzymes, elevated liver enzymes.

Oh, yeah. I know we haven't seen that many times.

Yes. Yeah. AST/ALT ratios, all those things.

Yeah. Okay.

So if your liver is feeling taxed, but even if you're not feeling well, if you're on hormone replacement therapy and you're still not feeling well, your liver is not processing things the way that it should. So it may not be showing up on a blood test or showing up with physical pain. It can also be increased brain fog, worse gut motility, things like that, you know, fatigue. Is also a sign. Like, disrupted sleep is even a sign that your liver is off.

I also wonder, it's— I'm thinking about the handfuls of supplements that most people take, like, in the morning. Like, your liver is processing all of that, so does that even slow it down more? What happens?

Depends on the, on the current state of it, right? I'm always thinking about how to optimize my liver, particularly when I'm taking a lot of supplements. So I take a lot of supplements every single day, but I make sure that in there I have my, like, liver stack of things that I'm doing to support the body's natural ability to clear a lot of this stuff out because it's not just hormones, right? In the world that we live in today, it's the environmental toxins, it's the crap that's in our shampoo and our cleaning bottles and our makeup and all of this. A lot of these toxins are circulating through the body and they get stuck at the liver. The liver gets backed up, our digestion is weakened. All of these things kind of have this cascade that can happen.

Okay. And I promise you all we're going to get into what you can do with all these things, but I want to first understand what's going on. So, yeah, so what Liver, that's making sense, and we'll come back to liver, but I want to talk about brain and gut. Like, so starting with the brain, we hear things like it crosses the blood-brain barrier. Does that have something to do with what you're talking about here?

It does, in that— so in a way, right, healthy fats— we've had this, this aversion to fats for a very long time that's still pervasive. I mean, it's crazy how many people are using like a coffee creamer, like a Coffee Mate, or are eating low-fat yogurt, right? We still have this persistent in, in society, and unfortunately, 60% of your of your brain is fat, and your cells need these fats in order to thrive. And they need these fats to protect the bubble, that cell membrane that protects every, every cell, as well as the little organelles and things inside the cell like your mitochondria. So they need these healthy fats. We are deprived of these healthy fats.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden it goes off a cliff when we hit menopause and our numbers just completely drop, and we lose the ability to get these things from food, to synthesize these healthy fats from food. So for most of your life, you're able to get a decent amount from foods. In today's world, we need more. And then all of a sudden you hit menopause, perimenopause even, it starts to decrease. You hit menopause and it just goes completely down. And then you have this incredible brain fog. You cannot even think. You can't remember. You can't think straight. You have all these different symptoms happening. These are happening at the cellular level because the cell is deprived of the nutrients that it really needs.

And then you add the trifecta here because you said 3. There's the gut thing. So what— and then help us understand that. The best you can, because I think my listeners, they understand gut's important, but what ends up happening is we think, oh, you just take a probiotic or just have to add fermented foods, or maybe you have to do, you know, a cleanse or whatever it is. But help us understand what's actually going on in our gut.

The gut is so much more intricate than, than any of those like simplifications, right? And I think there were— there was a good period of time where we thought you could just throw probiotics at it and it would help. The reality is that putting probiotics in a system is like planting a tree in a rainforest. You don't know if that's what your system needs. And unless you're doing functional stool testing every year to like see and kind of calibrate what bacteria your gut needs or if gut dysbiosis, if there's fungal infections. There's so many different things. And then partner that with overuse of antibiotics, gut disrupting chemicals like herbicides and pesticides, chemicals that are in our environment. Everybody's walking around with a leaky gut. And I don't say this in like from a place of fear. I say it because it's important to understand how to feed the right nutrients to these different systems so that they can operate better. And as we age, you've got that lining of the gut, which is thinning out. You've got heavy dysbiosis, which is often happening. The hormones and things can't be processed from the cells through the liver to the gut. You're getting backed up at each of these stages, and then you're trying to force hormones into the situation, and then you still have these symptoms and you're wondering why they're not going away.

So, like, what happens if you— let's just say you have all these things that are not optimal, right? So your liver is not functioning well, your gut's not optimize your brain very— and now you're throwing hormones in. Like, what's actually happening? Those hormones, where are they going? Are they making you worse? Like, what's going on there?

Oh, I think ultimately they're, they're making you better. They're just not making you feel as well as you can.

Okay.

Right. You can feel great. You can really feel like you're thriving. So many women start hormone therapy and, and they feel better. I'm just saying you can feel even more. Right, right. You can be even better than that. And I find that when women start hormone replacement therapy, when they've considered the quality of their cells, how healthy their cells are, they're making sure that their liver is working, and they're making sure that their gut is working, everything just lands so much more efficient. Yeah.

And I think it's starting to make sense just from some things you're saying about, like, when I talk about detox pathways. So, a lot of times I'll talk about, you know, how is your body clearing things? And I had not really thought of it in these— this triangle that you're bringing up, but it's It's going through your liver, it's got to go through your gut. So it's also, it's not just the hormones, it's how's it clearing everything? So like you said, environmental toxins, things we put on our skin, things we eat.

Microplastics. Yeah, all of these things. This is the same system.

Can your body even clear microplastics now that you just brought that up? That feels like that's divisive. People are like, "You can't ever clear them." You can?

Okay. You can. And I even would position that you can clear a lot of these forever chemicals.

Wow.

When the body is optimized and the systems are working properly, when you feed the body the right nutrients that it needs, our bodies are incredible, right? There are these incredible biochemical processes, millions of them. And I often go back and like think about this and just tell people, like, especially when they're like, oh, I have this symptom and this symptom, I'm going through perimenopause and I'm in menopause, all these things. Our bodies were designed to do this. These are not like disease states, right? We just need to optimize them so that they're going through it with grace and going through it well and going through it in a positive way and, and supporting the body's ability to, to go through these processes is something I'm so passionate about. Do you have— especially because I'm entering it. Yeah. I'm 42. I— all my friends around me are, you know, I have perimenopause. Yeah. Meanwhile, my doctor, I did an incredible panel with her a couple of years ago. Unbelievable doctor. And she said perimenopause is not a real thing. It shouldn't be here. Right. This is a toxic overload. Wow. That is what's happening. Your body is experiencing toxic overload. Your liver's backed up, your cells are leaky, your gut's leaky, and nothing's working properly. And that's why you have perimenopause. Wow.

Okay. That's so— it's, it's wild because sometimes you'll hear something like that and you're like, they're gaslighting me, saying it's not true, but it's true. But it doesn't have to be a thing is what I'm hearing.

It doesn't have to be a thing. And I think in today's world, we're so used to everything turning into like a marketing.

Yeah.

Gimmick, right? And so to some extent, like, were we talking about perimenopause this much 30 years ago?

No, no, you know, so I'm, I'm post-menopause, and I will say if we don't figure it out in perimenopause, it gets worse in menopause.

Like, 100% crash.

And I've had to fix it, like, menopause, post-menopause, like, leading up. So I think it's just important to really to understand this. I want to break down sort of like each area and then like what we can do about it. And I want to, while we're doing it, also talk about myths around it, if it's okay. So Like, let's start— I want to start with the liver because you use that analogy around the truck and taking out the trash, which I, which I love. So if the truck is slow, if the truck is slow taking stuff out, walk us through like what's happening in our body, like what's happening there. Like, I don't know, we can use estrogen as an example or whatever you want to use as an example. I'm just curious, like what's happening when it's slow? And then I want to get into like what have people been told they can do about it and what really should we be doing about it?

So bile is the body's trash truck.

Right.

And the liver makes bile. The gallbladder stores it. That's what's really interesting. And so we think it's this organ that we can just get rid of. But then where is it getting stored?

Oh, yeah.

And what's really important about bile is that it picks up the trash and it hauls it out of the body. Right. And so when these used hormones and toxins and old cholesterol and stuff that the body just is done with, it needs to actually have something that grabs onto it and moves it through the body. And that's where bile comes in. The problem is Bile also, another really important thing is it gets rid of unneeded estrogen, which is obviously very important. So when the gallbladder gets totally filled and the liver can no longer produce enough bile, you kind of have this slowing down of the whole system. And that's when you're getting gallstones. That's when you're getting different gallbladder issues. That's when people are getting their gallbladder removed. But earlier than that, you can just kind of live thinking like, oh, I can't eat eggs or I can't do this. And there are ways to thin that bile so that it's working better. And a couple of the things that I have particularly used is Tudca, which is a supplement I know that you love. It is something that's been used for hundreds of years in Chinese medicine. It actually was originally distilled in Chinese medicine, believe this or not, from bear bile. So they literally removed the gallbladder. Oh, I did not know that. Not the way we make it today. So this is something that has been trusted in Chinese medicine for a really long time to get the bile flowing, to break up the stagnant bile in the gallbladder, get the liver producing more bile. The other thing that's really helpful for producing bile, and it increases bile production by up to 200%, is a complicated word, but now you're going to hear me talk about it a lot, and it's called phosphatidylcholine, which is the phospholipid. That's the healthy fats that I talk about.

I take that too, and I didn't know why. I was just taking it. I was told to take it.

Okay. Liver health, liver cells, gut, everything. So that helps to increase the flow of bile, and this fat in addition to bile, help to grab on to these excess toxins, excess hormones, all the stuff that our body is done with and remove them from the body. So now you have this system that's just flowing better because the bile is working properly.

So one more— okay, so I know you've seen the whole thing with like olive oil and I don't know what's the thing people try, they do to clean out their liver. Like there was like these, like there's all these marketing around stagnant liver or like, yeah, like an olive oil shot a day.

Yeah.

What is that? Doing anything?

It is. Olive oil is oleic acid. It's omega-9. It's also very healthy for us. We, we need levels of omega-9. We don't need that much omega-9. So I— my liver flush that I like to do instead of that, like, gallbladder flush, which I think was lemon and olive—

yeah, that's what it was. And it's a lot of it. Like, it's like— yes, yes.

And I, I do one instead where I take 2 tablespoons of, uh, phosphatidylcholine.

Okay.

I'll take like for TUDCA, and it just like pushes everything through. It's, it's wild.

Okay, so let me— I want to dive a little deeper into that. So like, like, so let's just— TUDCA in general. So I take TUDCA because I was told to, and I knew it was helping my liver, but I didn't fully understand until you're explaining it right now. So how often can you take TUDCA? Like, can you take it every meal? Should you take it every meal?

Depends on the person. If you do not have a gallbladder, you can take it every meal. If you do and you're just optimizing, I kind of cycle on and off it. I don't find that I need it all the time, so I'll maybe take it like 1 to 2 times a week, and I'll take 2 capsules right before bed. If you have a history of neurodegenerative problems in your family, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, these types of things, Tadka also has a great benefit in our cells. And so for those people, their doctor may put them on it every single day, and that's totally safe as well.

Now, I personally, like, I know, like, you're— I use your brand, so I use BodyBio Tadka, and it says on the thing 2 capsules for a serving. I usually don't follow directions. I just go with— I muscle test and I go with what I'm thinking. I usually take one in the morning and one at night. Like, so that's what I— is that okay? Is that—

love that.

Okay.

And if that's what feels good for you and that's what resonates for you, by all means, that, that is what you should do.

Is TUDCA safe? Like, could people just sort of— if they like to take it with— and can you take it with meals or does it have to be empty stomach?

That's really, you know, that's one of those things that like we love to place distinct information on this. It's hard to study if it works better, right? It's hard to do these types of pharmacokinetic studies that are looking at how it's absorbed, I think just experiment and see, see what's best for you. So for that person who does not have a gallbladder, they may need to take it with a meal. But for somebody else, taking it on their own right before bed may work better. It just really depends on, on the individual.

Can you overdo TUDCA and what would happen?

I mean, I wouldn't go like crazy, but if you're a practitioner, I know that it's a part of like specific protocols for like liver. Yeah. If somebody is doing some alternative like cancer protocols, I've seen it used in higher doses.

Okay.

I just think you want to do that for a shortened period of time. You don't want to do that for too long.

Got it. Okay. But doing—

but it has been studied at the dose that it is. The 2 caps a day have absolutely been studied and is safe to take long term.

A lot of companies have TUDCA, or they'll say TUDCA and they add other things into it. Tell me, like, what— like, the reason I liked yours and picked it is it was just clean. I like— it's very transparent what's in yours. It's highly recommended. I like all of your ingredients and what you do with things. But for someone that's just like going to their pantry now and looking at a bottle, like, what do we need to be aware of? Like, what should we pay attention to with that?

I think just look for companies that you trust, right? This is a big issue with the amount of supplement companies that are out there now. We've been doing this for a long time. We have no private equity telling us to cut costs on specific ingredients. We have visibility into every single ingredient that we're sourcing. We're looking at the quality of— we're looking at where it's coming from. We are looking at all the quality materials, what's going into that supplement in order to even get it into the, the capsule. So we're very hands-on with this process. Are there other companies out there that make TUDCA? There might be some that are making it cheaper. Yeah, but do I know what their quality control check is like?

No. Sure.

We were just a part of a random study that was done. We weren't a part of it whatsoever. I just saw it come out where they bought the top 12 selling brands of liposomal glutathione on Amazon. Okay. Out of the 12, 6 had no levels of glutathione. So this is where this, like, trust really needs to be taken seriously. And I think there's so many toys.

That's like really messed up.

That's crazy.

Did you buy from the company store or was it just like Amazon in general?

I think they were buying from Amazon. We didn't do the test, but this other brand did. That's messed up. I sleep well at night knowing that BodyBio is not going to be in the low percentage of those. Yeah.

And my whole thing is when you buy supplements, I always encourage people like go to the actual brand website or if you're doing Amazon, you got to go to the company store.

The brand store.

Versus just like a third-party seller so you know what you're actually getting. Yeah. Okay. So the one that we can't pronounce, the liposomal phosphofolipid.

Let's just call it PC.

Yeah. PC.

Okay.

You, I know you have a liquid form and a capsule form. So explain this to us. Like, what is this actually doing?

This is fascinating. So I'll give you a little bit of history about PC. PC is actually an IV that you get if you're having heart issues, like breakdown plaque. If you have overdosed, if you have alcohol toxicity and you go into the hospital, they usually give you an IV of PC. PC is is something that my grandfather started using, and this was the, the main product that he developed in the 1990s. He started using it for his chronic fatigue, and he found just an incredible transformation and detoxification because it's providing the body with the healthy fats that it needs for all of your systems to work properly and to feed the cells. 50% of that bubble that protects our cells is made of PC. So when we talk about the fats that build our brain, this 60% fat fat that our brain, most of it is from BCAA, and we should be getting enough from our food. Traditionally, it came from soy, from red meat, from egg yolks. But if you have kind of removed these, let's say you're a pescatarian, or let's say you're not eating much red meat, or let's say you don't eat 5 raw egg yolks a day, you're not getting enough of this healthy fat for the world that we live in today because these microplastics and these chemicals and these toxins What are they breaking down? That bubble. They're breaking down that, that healthy bubble that's protecting our cell. And then this bad stuff is actually getting into the cell where it really shouldn't.

So when you take this, well, first of all, is it like a lot of people add omegas to their diet? They'll take like fish oil or they'll take—

Please stop. Please stop taking fish oil.

Tell us why. Okay.

If you leave one thing with this conversation today, stop taking fish oil. I need to hear all this.

Why? I've never— everyone talks about fish oil. Tell me.

I know, but it's like we have created this myopic view on fish oil, like it's this panacea, like your brain. You're not fish. We're humans, right? We need to eat what is in the human cell, not what is in fish.

Okay.

And EPA and DHA are really important and they're great, but they're lower level essential fatty acids. They're not the main ones at the top. The main ones are actually linoleic and alpha-linolenic, and those are called essential fatty acids.

Okay.

Those combined with PC are what feeds our cells. Cells, which feeds the brain. That's what makes up all the healthy fats in the brain. And so if you're just taking the fish oil, you're getting lower-level stuff that's not actually feeding your cells.

Wait, hold on. I'm like completely mind-blown right now. And now I'm getting— so, and this has been a recurring theme about fish oil and like upping the dose for not just for heart health, for inflammation. This is— I've never heard this. This is wild. Yeah.

This is something that I like— I will die on this hill.

So are we harming ourselves doing this? You are.

Yeah, long-term. Absolutely.

What's happening when we do that?

It's just, it starts acting as a steroid. And so all the like anti-inflammatory benefits are thrown out the window. And so like we think like, just, just pack in, these are the healthy fats. But the reality is like when you think healthy fat, people immediately go olive oil, avocados, fish oil. And none of those have phospholipids. None of those have the fat that's making up our brain. None of those have the main essential fatty acids.

So you're even saying, but it's not even just add, add phospholipid. It's not, you're saying just take this out because it's actually gonna be detrimental.

Most fish oil that's on the market, I would say is rancid. Most fish oil is chemically processed. It's not extracted in the right way. These are extremely delicate, extremely delicate oils. They're called bioactive lipids. They're polyunsaturated fats that are constantly, my grandfather used to say they're always moving, right? And you disrupt that process and those fish oils are dead and oxidized, and then they're doing more harm than good. And so I often tell people, you get your EPA and DHA from eating fish.

So you're fine with eating fish. It's just not taking—

eating fish is wonderful. Eating caviar is the best possible thing you can do for inflammation. Get a really high quality fish. And I'm not saying this to try to plug my fish oil because I will tell you all day long to try to get your EPA and DHA from food. We have a great cold-pressed caviar that we found from Norway that is extremely clean, which is our fish oil. But I cycle on and off that. I don't take that every single day.

Okay. So then you're saying, though, if I— if you take phospholipid complex, you're actually getting the benefits that you thought you were getting by taking fish oils.

PC plus a product called Balance Oil. Balance Oil are the essential fatty acids. So you think you're getting all your essential fatty acids from fish oil, but what you actually need is this balance of all of them. And so, that Balance Oil combined with the PC is what I take.

I've never even tried your Balance Oil. So, the good thing—

Every single day.

Okay. I've never even tried it. So, this is— wait, this is mind-blowing because I've never— I've done like 550 interviews. I've never heard any expert say this, not once. This is wild.

This is definitely where I get the most slack, but I think people are really coming around. If you ask functional doctors, if you ask nutritionists, they're like, "Oh, yeah, of course, you need the mother." you need the parent essential fatty acids, not just fish oil.

Okay. This is what's also kind of weird too. I'm just going to say this. So, you know, like if you take— if you were to take aspirin on an empty stomach, it hurts your stomach. Okay. I get that same thing if I take fish oil. Like, I have to be really careful. Like, I have to freeze my fish oil. I have to, like, not take it all. It hurts my stomach. But I don't get that from the other ones you're talking about. So that's— that right there should have almost told me like that. I think our bodies are innately smart. And if it's doing something like that, there's a reason.

I agree with you.

Okay, you just like completely blown my mind. I got to rethink all the stuff now because I've been talking about fish oil forever.

And people ask me like, how does your skin look so buoyant? Remember, your skin is— skin is your largest organ. Organs are made of cells. Your cells need the right fats and the right food to make them plump and healthy and robust and working. And those fats are not fish oil. You're not getting them from fish oil. So you're getting that from essential fatty acids in that Balance oil I talked about. And phospholipids. How—

okay, go back to the liposomal phospholipid complex that I'm going to learn to pronounce by the end of the show. My doctor, my good friend and my doctor, is the first one who told me to take this. She said, and she had wanted me to take it mostly for heart health. I never understood until you're talking right now. I noticed, like, I have capsules that I've bought from you, and I noticed when we booked this podcast, your team sent me the oil, like, actually a bottle of it. What's the difference? Does it matter?

No difference. One. So both made in the same facility in New Jersey. It's about an hour away from where I am right now. And we have an amazing quality control department that oversees all of that. One is just then sent out for encapsulation.

Got it.

So it's easier to take exact same material in both. I like to take the liquid because I tend to take higher doses of it. I like to take a lot of it. I think of it as a food. I don't think of it as a supplement. And so I'll take a shot, like a probably a tablespoon or 2 tablespoons a day as a shot.

Is there— is it okay to load on it? Like, can you do extra? Is it so— because I know with fish oil, like, like, I've like literally forced myself to add more even though I don't like how it feels on my stomach. So is it kind of that same idea, but this is better? Like, you should do more? Yeah.

Yeah. If you can do like a loading dose in particular and you can do, you know, 3 months at like a higher dose and then you want to taper back down, that's fine. This is not inexpensive stuff. It's really— yeah, it's very difficult to make. There's only a handful of people in the world that know how to make it. That make it in our facility in New Jersey, you know, an hour away. And it requires a lot of really high-end ingredients to go into it to make a really great product. So if you can afford it and you can be on a higher dose and you're feeling good, right? You start taking it, all of a sudden your brain's functioning better. You're noticing your gut health feels better. 80% of your gastric tract is made of PC.

Wow. I'm like, I'm, I can't believe Jessica, all the people I've had on this, like, why am I just learning this? This is Wild.

So to some extent, these are nutrients.

Yeah, right.

These are like foods. They're not— we should be getting enough from our food and we're just not in today's world.

So if you were going to try to get this from food, what would you have to eat a lot of?

Egg yolks. Okay. The number one source.

Nobody's eating a ton of egg yolks, right?

Yeah. So my grandfather used to eat like 5 raw egg yolks a day in cottage cheese. I won't be doing that with the ballad soil.

That's gross.

It was not a good—

raw eggs in cottage cheese. That's gross.

It's a gross—

I can't. No.

Even when I've tried to add it to a smoothie, I'm like, no, I can't do this.

No.

So you said raw.

Is there a reason it has to be raw? Why would— why not cook it?

Protect it, right? Remember what I said about how delicate these oils are? Yeah. These fats. So if you're then cooking it on a stove and heating it, then it's, it's changing the nature of that polyunsaturated fat.

So, so I want to make sure I'm explaining this right and understanding it correctly. So the reason you talk about essential oils like Balance Oil and the reason— and liposomal— I'm going to keep saying it until I get it right— liposomal phospholipid complex is—

there's really—

there's a lot of reasons, but the main ones I'm hearing is all the things we hear about why we want these healthy fats, like your brain health, anti-inflammation, heart. Is that— do I— and gut. So it's all— it's all those things that's really supporting. Yeah.

Okay. Because your cells are supporting every single one of those systems.

I just want to make a comment too, because I know you said it's not an inexpensive supplement, but it is inexpensive compared to what goes wrong when we don't take care of those things. So I just want to reframe that because I, I, I really don't share things unless I'm actually researching, using, talking about. Like, you all listening, I hope you know that about me by now. Like, anything I'm interviewing and wanting, it's because I actually use— genuinely use something or want to learn about it. That's why I— when I look at like what I value and where I spend it, literally my health is like this top priority thing because I I know what it costs. I've seen what it costs to have an unhealthy life and what that creates later. So to me, I'm not saying you got to do every supplement, every, like, all the things, but you have to think what's most important. And that's where I like to invest. I mean, just me personally, that's where I choose to because I don't want to have to pay to fix things later.

Agree. I completely agree with you. And I think that if we take our health seriously and we feed our body the right nutrients, yeah, our body can work even better. And I think in the long run you will end up spending less money because you're not dealing with so many of the struggles.

Um, just, do you I know, again, I'm so bad at directions, but I'm just seeing right now as I'm holding it, it says 2 softgels for a regular serving size. You said you'll do like 2 tablespoons of the oil. Can you take this a couple times a day? Is it better to do it all at one time? Does it matter?

For some people, it can help with like brain function and clarity. And so, some people don't like to take— they like to take it in the first half of the day because they feel it might keep them awake. It doesn't happen to me. So, I'll usually split doses and do a big glug of the liquid. I mean, literally, I just pour it.

With food, does it matter, or do you try to get on an empty stomach?

I think food is helpful to take it with, particularly protein. And 1 tablespoon is equivalent to 12 capsules. So, I take the capsules to travel, but I just take—

1 tablespoon is equivalent to 12 capsules? Okay, I'm switching to the liquid. I didn't know. I'm not taking 12 capsules.

I didn't— Just makes it easier. My mom's favorite trick that she does is she puts it in like a shot glass with like juice.

Yeah.

And then she just pours the liquid in there.

And I'm looking at the capsule like they're big. Like how—

that's—

do we need 12? Okay, that's interesting. I would have not thought about— okay, so I'm going to switch to that. I will switch.

And the liquid's a little weird, right? It's, it's like it's a thick— it's, it's almost like molasses.

What does it taste like? I haven't tried it yet.

Um, it tastes a little bit like molasses. Okay. Um, it, it has a flavor to it. Not like crazy. It doesn't taste like—

so you can mix it. She's saying if you don't like the taste, you, you can mix it with something.

Mix it into yogurt, mix it in a smoothie, put it in a shot of juice, you won't even taste it.

How do you do it? You just take it without anything?

I take it literally directly from the bottle and then chase it with water.

Okay, I'm going to do the same thing. I'm going to be tough. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. But I also am realizing talking to you, I always take splitting it, but I'm going to try to— I'm going to move to the morning and just do it in the morning. And I also want to share with you all, fish oil always hurts my stomach. I have to load it with food. My husband's always like, "Put nuts in your mouth." But now I know I'm going to switch to this because This is not balanced.

So instead, and do it for like a month. And then, you know, if you're not eating a lot of fish, if you're, you know, in a state where you can't get a lot of fresh fish or it's the dead of winter, then, you know, you can take your, your fish oil. I wouldn't— I don't trust a lot of fish oils out there because I think they're extracted in crazy ways. I love our Resolven. That is our cold-pressed caviar fish oil. I love to get my fish oils, my EPA, my DHA from caviar. It's always in my fridge. And, you know, it doesn't have to be an expensive caviar. It can just be some sturgeon.

So just to kind of elaborate, because I know a lot of people are freaking out because they're like, Natalie, you told me to take fish oil, I'm doing it. She's not saying all fish oils are bad. She's saying a good amount of them are gonna be rancid, and we don't necessarily need it, is what she's saying. So, and she's still for eating fish. And like she just said, if you're traveling, you're not eating a lot of fish, it's okay to still take— if you have a good quality one, if you have a good quality one, but it's not needed. You could do Balance Oil, and you can do the PC, and you then— you don't necessarily need it. Did I say all that right? Okay, okay, okay. Wow, that was like a huge— I literally had no idea about this. Okay, what am I going to learn now about soda? Okay, so the other thing my doctor had told me about was butyrate, and the reason she started me on butyrate was back when I was having a problem with hives, and it was after I had a gut infection. I had gotten a gut infection in Bali, and I was getting hives, and we were really trying to get to the bottom of it, and I was doing— so I cut out histamine, I did all these things, and she said, "You need to add butyrate." And I was— I had never even— so what is that?

It's a fascinating molecule. It's a postbiotic, right? We're so familiar with prebiotics and probiotics. This is a postbiotic. And if you think of a flowering plant, prebiotics are the sun and water. The plant is the probiotic. And the flowers that it produces are the postbiotics. You need a healthy plant. You need the right foods in order to get those flowers right. You need the right environment. And that is exactly what butyrate is. Butyrate is a postbiotic that creates the right environment in the gut. Yeah. And it helps modulate the immune system. So when you were experiencing that heightened immune system and those reactions, it's because the environment in the gut was off. And that's where butyrate comes in and helps to kind of quench that inflammation in the gut. And just calm things down. It's, it's awesome.

Okay, so what is it doing though? Like, what is it? Is it—

it's feeding the gut a molecule that we're not making enough of, right? We don't have the right bacteria because of dysbiosis. We're not getting the right resistant starches, the right fibers in our diet to feed those specific bacteria. And so we see across the board low levels of butyrate. And so your body should be producing ample amounts of this., and then the body is using that molecule to modulate inflammation in the gut. So to control inflammation, to tell the immune system what to do, to keep you regular, it's really important for keeping you regular and to prevent food sensitivities and rashes and brain fog and mood dips and all the things that can happen when your gut is off. So butyrate goes in and it just kind of helps that whole system to work properly.

Is there a proper time to take it? Like I take— I've been taking that at night. I don't remember why or how. Is it matter? When you take it?

Dave Asprey takes it at night too. He does it because there are some like preliminary studies that show it helps with sleep. I personally like to take it after a meal because I have that kind of predisposition towards PCOS and metabolic dysfunction, and it helps to naturally regulate blood sugar. And so I take it after a meal for that reason. I found like even this morning I woke up, my gut's been off for a few days. I just popped 4 butyrate after my breakfast and honestly, I'm feeling so much better. 4? Yeah.

Can you overdo this? Is there too much you could do?

Yeah, I wouldn't do more than 6 a day. Okay, 6 is your max.

Now you can spread it out and do what you want, but you can do 2 caps after each meal.

Okay, you could do— you know, most nights I'll do like 3 before bed. It just depends on like where I'm at and how busy I am, that if I even remember to take things, to be honest with you, as a mom of 3 with this crazy business.

So like my husband's been saying his guts off, he keeps saying like, do I need another parasite cleanse? Like I should give him butyrate.

Oh yeah.

Okay.

Everybody can benefit because we're all— all of our guts are just off and it's just the reality. And so you could take—

this is like an everyday—

you should—

so these things are really everyday things you should be adding, like the ones I'm talking about. Okay. These are— no, these aren't just like you go through a cycle, like you can take these every day. You know, you cycle the type of— but you can totally do these every day.

My non-negotiables every single day are PC, Balance Oil, butyrate, and minerals.

And minerals.

Okay, minerals.

Perfect. Yeah, I do. I love minerals. What about— I want to talk about some of these like quick fix things that people talk about. Like when you hear like, just do this cleanse, this one liver flush, or like this— do we need those fancy things? When someone's like, buy— like, you know how you've seen those online, like we're gonna fix your sluggish liver with this thing or whatever. Speak into that, help us.

No. When your diet is optimized, when you're feeding the body the right nutrients, when your organs are working the way that they should, when you're feeding the cells the right healthy fats you, you shouldn't need to do those types of like one-time cleanses. Should you do a random parasite cleanse? Sure, because you know, these problems are not going to— these products are not going to address parasites.

I feel like parasite's a whole different conversation than like sluggish liver, like, you know what I mean? Like, I like parasite cleanse, I understand, but I hear a lot about like fix your sluggish liver, and I'm thinking— and it's like these expensive, like, all kinds of things. I'm like, what is that doing?

These like protocols that are focused on it? No, I, I really like to just optimize by making sure the bile is flowing taking TUDCA. If you need a little bit of added support, like if you don't have a gallbladder, you should also add in something called ox bile, which TUDCA is one bile salt, whereas ox bile has the full spectrum of the others as well.

Wait, tell me more about that.

Yeah, that's an interesting one. I learned a lot about ox bile because my mother didn't have a gallbladder and I was trying to help her. Once she had her gallbladder removed, she, you know, she kept having food sensitivities because you've now removed an organ that was storing the bile and you need to make sure that the bile is actually processed and working. And so the combination of TUDCA and Ox bile together were really critical because TUDCA is one bile salt, whereas Ox bile has the other bile salts that are really important as well.

Ah, okay. Got it.

And those really help with digestion of fats and protein and liver health. So those are going to get the liver kind of working with bile. And then PC is also really, really important for, for liver function. So Instead of doing some kind of cleanse, you're doing something that's just giving the body the nutrients that it needs so it can, it can work in the way that it's intended to.

So remind us again, because I want to— I want to— I know you sort of touched on this, but you said earlier, like, we just can't get all of this from food. And you explained why the PC and the eggs, that makes sense.

But like, where would you—

could you get butyrate from food? Could you get TCA from food? Like, where is that? What would you have to be eating?

Tadka, you can't, but butyrate you absolutely can. Butyrate is very high in resistant starches. So when we have the right bacteria in our gut, the right keystone strains of bacteria, and then you've got the right resistant starch. So this is cooled and cooked mashed potatoes, cooled and cooked rice, green bananas, which like not easy to eat, but they're good for us. Plantains, things like that. They provide the right fiber for those right bacteria that can then produce butyrate.

You know, I'm having another like little aha thing because again, I think a lot of my listeners are like this, but like I'm really in tune with like what does my body need, like what do I crave. So some of those things you just mentioned, there's been times I've craved those randomly. Like why am I craving rice or why am I craving like plantains? So that's starting to make sense that like—

I bet you needed butyrate.

Bet I did. Yeah. I think it's— I, like, I learned yesterday, by the way, I was interviewing somebody else about if you're craving chocolate, it's usually a magnesium deficiency. So there's, there's so much into our— that's like a whole nother topic about just cravings in general and why we crave things. Like, our bodies are so smart, and I think when we really do eat clean and we're hydrated and you're doing all the right things, you can listen to— your body will tell you what it needs.

Definitely.

I believe that. And that's why I like muscle testing too. I think it's another way of your body just innately telling you what you need.

Muscle testing, intuition. I think it's really interesting that you had that reaction to fish oil because isn't that a way of your body?

No, I mean, you're just closing because I've been trying to force it for years, years, and I've been told so many times, oh, you need to up it for that. But my body doesn't want it.

Like, I have to know.

No, I know. Now that's making a lot of sense.

So I'm excited for you to try Balance Oil.

It literally makes the same feeling that if I take an aspirin, it's like, wow, just does not want it.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's a strong reaction too.

Yeah. And it's just funny, as I'm talking, I'm like, wow, I've been ignoring that because I just thought we're supposed to take it.

And to touch on balance oil and foods, because you can also— that's why seed cycling is so popular, right?

Talk to us about— no, actually, can you explain that? I don't—

yeah. So balance oil, essential fatty acids you don't make in the body at all. Do you need to get them from your foods? And the most prevalent source is seeds. So walnuts and Brazil nuts and, and sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds and flax seeds. We're just not eating a lot of these anymore. And so, that is where you can get a good amount of those essential fatty acids from. Not from seeds, like I'm not talking about fish, right? You're talking about these two essential fatty acids that are at the top of this chain, right? If you think of like the food chain, they're at the top up here, linoleic and alpha-linolenic, and EPA and DHA are further down this way.

You just said seed cycling, or did I mishear that? What does that mean?

Yep, yep. Seed cycling is an interesting approach to regulating hormones. I personally do it. I found it to be incredibly helpful because like earlier this year, my hormones started to get a little like, okay, my, my menstrual cycle is elongated and I'm getting headaches on day, day 10 and day 1, you know, day like 28. And I'm noticing some signs. And I, I talked to my doctor about it and I said, well, should I go on like a progesterone?

Yeah.

And she was like, no, I want you to seed cycle consistently.

Okay.

Which is eating certain seeds during certain parts of your cycle.

Like literally taking like pumpkin seeds or whatever.

Exactly. Okay. And then I want you to add evening primrose oil to your balance oil. So you're getting more of the good omega-6s, which are going to help with the hormones. And then she has me taking something called Vitex, which helps to regulate hormones as well. And, and I feel like a different person.

And how many seeds are you eating during this? This is a whole—

So I'm actually, I'm doing the cheating way. Okay. There's a great company called BEEYA, B-E-E-Y-A, and they make a phase 1 and phase 2. So before ovulation and after ovulation, before ovulation, you're having sunflower and flaxseeds, and after it's sesame, sesame and something else.

So since your grandfather started this, where did you know what you're walking into right away? How did this even happen?

Oh, God, no, no. It happened for me through like a series of, of my own health challenges. Right. The company was developed because of my grandfather's health challenges way back in the day. And we're talking in the '80s, right? This is before functional medicine was anything. Yeah, no one knew what cellular health was. They just was not conversations that were being had. And it started for him as a, you know, just an explorer. He was a health explorer. He was constantly looking for the root cause. Well, why do I have this chronic fatigue diagnosis? And for me, it was very similar. Well, why do I have polycystic ovarian syndrome? What is metabolic dysfunction? Why is my doctor sitting in front of me telling me I'm going to have diabetes in 5 years? Like, what is going on here? Right. And, and it's that path that kind of led us. The second generation wasn't involved in the business, in the family business. And when my husband and I got married, my husband had worked for Fiji Water and we lived a great life in London. And he met with my grandfather and said, hey, we're, we're going home. And next thing you know, I'm pregnant. We're going home. I've got a, you know, baby on the way. And it was, it was a big move for us, but one that felt very mission-driven, one that feels like it aligned perfectly with, with me. I am the archetype when it comes to the BodyBio consumer, and I had such a wonderful opportunity to sit with my grandfather and learn so much from him and take what he had been teaching doctors for 20 years and translate that into a direct-to-consumer business that we have today.

That's, that's amazing. I've never heard of that. I mean, actually, I've heard of it. I just didn't understand what that was. So you're literally cycling seeds.

You're cycling seeds. And it works. To help your body process hormones.

I wonder if that would do anything for postmenopausal women, or is that just—

I think they have a thing for postmenopausal as well to support.

I'm going to have to look into that. I've never even— I've never tried any of that stuff. So, okay, what did I not ask you about that you're like, "I wish you'd ask me about this." I think we've covered—

let's talk about minerals, right? Because minerals are overlooked and they're so important, and so many of us are getting so familiar with what to do with our water and how to filter our water and we're not drinking tap water and we're avoiding these forever chemicals that they're using to clean the water. But you can't drink just reverse osmosis water. That's dead water. And so you need these minerals. Yeah. And so spring water, the best, but hard to find good quality spring water.

And you want it in glass.

Not exactly. And it's just like the— it gets so complicated. So if you have a home filtration system, make sure you're adding the good minerals back in. Yeah. And that's We do that through a product called Remineralize.

Oh, look at that.

Genius. And then I also add electrolytes in, particularly when it's so hot. Okay. You know, over 100 degrees, you need to be adding electrolytes even if you're not working.

Totally. I've been talking about electrolytes and minerals forever, so they definitely— y'all definitely heard me. The only thing that we really broke through today was this fish oil conversation. So now, now anytime someone brings up fish oil, I'm going to have to like counter.

You're going to say, but it's not supplying the parent essential fatty acids and they're going to go, oh boy.

So my takeaway is right now, okay, so y'all, I've literally been using these 3 things. I mean, I'm using, I just didn't fully understand why I was using Tadka. I was using sodium butyrate and I was using liposomal phospholipid complex. Look at me pronouncing it well now. Okay. Which is PC. So I'm going to link all these below because these are important. So this is the personal brand that I've been buying and using. This is the one. So I understand there's other companies you can look if I want you to get these ingredients in.. But you all know I vet and I look. So this is the one that I'm using. I will put that all in the show notes. Like I legit messaged them first. Like what this is, we said, I'm a customer, I use these things. And Dr. Anna Cabeca, who I featured many times, is the first one who told me about these things. I didn't even know why I was taking them. She told me about the PC and the sodium butyrate. Jess Pietros first told me about Tudka. So I, there's a lot there, but these are legit things I use. I love it. So this was so helpful today. Thank you so much.

Oh, I'm so happy. It can be overwhelming, right? Like we're talking about stuff that's like deep in like biology.

Yeah.

But I think the reality is like they're just nutrients at the end of the day. These are essential nutrients that we just need a bit more help with in today's world.

So I'm in this like phase of honestly lessening things and just going, what are like— I want— my whole thing is right now I just want to understand why if I'm doing something. Like I understand why I'm doing magnesium. I understand why I'm doing enzymes. I understand why— like, I'm just— why am I doing things? And I'm trying to be very intentional, and these make sense to me, especially Tug. Like, this whole— the analogy of it taking out the trash, and that I can visualize. Like, I literally see that, and it makes sense. I would imagine it also helped people somewhat with, like, constipation, or just, just moving things along in general.

Yeah, it helps with constipation. Think about people that are sitting in a sauna every day, right? They're like, oh yeah, I'm doing this detox. Tox, but this— these organs aren't actually working properly. And so all this stuff is just recirculating. It's not actually making its way out of the body. And so we just need a little bit of help, essentially.

Thank you so much for this. I will link everything below in the show notes so you can find these things. And hopefully this was helpful. Please share it with others and let us know if you have questions that we did not answer and we can get those to you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Jess.

Thank you.