She Quit Drugs, Alcohol, and Meat. SUGAR Was the Hardest.

Sugar is truly wrecking us in midlife. Now, we think we eat clean, we think we know this about sugar, we're not chugging soda, and we're not eating candy bars per se, but we still maybe can't lose the belly, or we're still exhausted in the afternoon, and we wake up still at 3 in the morning sometimes not being able to fall back asleep. Our joints hurt, our brains feel slower, and we keep blaming our hormones, our age, our metabolism, or needing this one thing. But after 45, our bodies Process sugar completely different than it did at age 30. Estrogen drops, insulin sensitivity drops. The same amount of sugar that used to move through us now actually gets stored, and it goes sometimes straight to the belly. Our fasting glucose starts creeping up, our inflammation goes up, our sleep breaks, and most doctors don't test specifically for this until we already have a diagnosis. Now, my guest today, Kida, she has been sober from alcohol for almost 40 years. She quit drugs, she quit meat, and she says the hardest thing she ever had to give up— was actually sugar. Sugar was harder than every other addiction combined. Now, she even wrote a book called Sugar Can F Itself. We're going to talk about that title in a minute because she is done being polite about what this stuff is doing to midlife women. Now, we're going to go deep today on why the forgotten thing— and I say forgotten thing, sugar— I say forgotten thing for a reason. We've gotten so far off track looking for all these other extreme things, and we seem to have We've kind of swept the idea of sugar under the rug, but this gets harder and harder to quit after menopause. And we're going to talk about why this is a problem, how to actually break the cycle, and a solution we could do when those cravings seem to kick in at these crazy odd times. Because you don't have to suffer through this, and I want you to understand why this is actually doing more damage than just being a guilty little pleasure. Okay, so if you've been trying to eat less sugar or you've been ignoring the conversation about sugar because you just crave it so much, you're gonna love this conversation. Keto, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much Thanks for inviting me to the show, Natalie.

It's great to be back. I can't wait to have this chat mostly because I think that midlife women specifically, we have gotten into this habit of looking for— I call it the one thingitis, the one thingitis of looking for what is the one thing that's going to fix all my problems, whether it's a peptide or a biohack or it's Right. You know, the right hormone replacement or the right diet. We get into this habit of looking for the one thing, and that part's not going away. I think we're trained that way. But one of the really obvious things that has popped up over and over the years, I mean, I remember back in the '70s, even the sugar conversation, is sugar. And I feel that you've mentioned it's such a strong addiction. I feel that that is so true because women don't want to look at that. They don't. They want— they're like, I'll do everything else but that.

Well, there's so much pleasure that goes with sugar. Like, if your cortisol is high, you just feel lousy. So, you know, you're, you don't, you're not attached to cortisol like you are with sugar. And, you know, you're mentioning the one thing-itis. Sugar and having too much sugar in your diet could be that one thing that tips the scale, literally and figuratively, in your favor.

Sugar is so good, though. And like, somebody would argue, like, well, okay, well, it's just in nature and like fruit is like, help us understand, like, why do we even have it? Like, what is, what is What's the purpose of sugar?

Well, the purpose of sugar, like, go— let's go all the way back to the cave people days when people were, you know, new on the planet and they're learning to identify food. And one of the ways to identify what's food and what's poison is by the taste. Foods that taste sweet are good. They're, you know, fruits and tubers and things like that. And so we're wired to recognize the sweet taste as good, but Give it a little context. Back in the day, you know, when our bodies were, you know, getting wired to the earth environment, the kind of sugar that our ancestors would've eaten would be like they run across a couple berry patches several times in the summer, and that would be shared among the clan or the tribe or however many people, and that would be it. So we're wired to look for it and recognize it as good food, but—

There's—

our bodies are not wired to consume the concentrated high levels of sugar that's in our diets today. We have refined sugar, we have sugar from every which way. Sugars are added for flavor, for balancing flavor, for sometimes even preserving things. Yeah. And it's just way too much.

So Kita, I want you to get really real with midlife women here because I think they're looking for everything else but sugar. What happens when we do not take sugar seriously?

Well, if you don't take sugar seriously, it means you're not taking your health seriously. It is the root cause of so many things. I don't know if you knew this, but one of cancer's main foods is sugar. So if, if you want to go ahead and feed cancer cells, then, then keep on slamming those Dr. Peppers. If you love inflammation and you love pain, keep on eating sugar. Sugar is the root cause of inflammation, diabetes, Alzheimer's. It is implicated in all kinds of brain disease. They're showing— like, science is showing all kinds of problems associated with the plaque buildup, like the tau tangles and beta amyloid plaque buildup in the brain because of sugar. It's like the worst thing that you could be eating. It's like an anti-nutrient. If you're eating too much sugar, if you want to have heart disease, just keep on eating sugar. If you want to lose your eyesight, keep on eating sugar. But if you want to turn that around, then stop. But if you don't, like, there's 3 outcomes for a high-sugar diet. One outcome, the best outcome, is that you stop eating sugar. The second outcome is that you get a serious wake-up call and you make a change in your diet and you stop eating added sugar.

Mm-hmm.

And the third thing is that you don't stop and it's gonna kill you through heart disease, nerve disease, kidney disease, brain disease, all the different things that sugar does. So it'll either kill you or you'll stop doing it.

And one thing you didn't say, but gosh, there's a huge link to just rapidly aging skin. So, you know, like women are doing all these things to fight that, but it's aging people.

It ages you from the inside out. So like your, your best menopause makeover is to stop sugar. But if you, you know, if you don't care about all that, if you care more about like, you gotta really think about your priorities and what is important to you. And what is not just important to you, but also to the people who depend on you, the people who love you. If you don't take care of your health, if you keep on eating that, you know, eating your cookies every night or your ice cream or whatever it is, your soda all day long, then the people who depend on you are, number one, they might end up having to take care of you, you know, in a care home or in a hospital. And do you really wanna be that person that is, you know, they have to change your diapers because you have Alzheimer's?

Yeah.

No, you really don't want that. But, the other thing is that you're setting an example for others too, like people who look up to you. Like, do you want them to see?

Women get very— this is hard because I'm hearing what you're saying and I know women listening are hearing what you're saying, but then they go into, but I can't stop it. Like, but I can't. So, what do you want them to know? Because I think that's a scary place too. Like, I'm being wronged for doing this thing, but I just can't stop it. Like, I'm craving it.

Yeah. Well, there, it seems like you can't stop it because you've been doing it all your life. It consumes so much of your headspace as well as, you know, it sometimes it's not even you that's craving it. Sometimes it's like the bad bacteria in your gut that's craving it.

Yeah.

So it's not even you, it's, you know, your Candida and your cancer cells and all that that's craving it. You can stop it though. And this is what I really want everybody to know. Like, if you read my story in the beginning of the book and what a crazy shit show my life was, you know, with all the addiction and stuff, if I was able to turn my life around from that, then I'm hoping that that gives every woman hope that she can turn a sugar habit around.

Yeah.

Because you can. And there's like so many tools that you can use. There's tea that you can drink that'll get rid of that sugar craving, that'll block the sweet taste so that sweets don't taste good having a hard time with just making yourself follow through with a decision, that's going to help you. It's going to give you an advantage that you just didn't have without the tea.

Is the damage already done? Like, if we've been doing sugar for so many years and the woman listening is 50, 55, 60, and she's saying, but I've been doing it all this life, like, did I already do the damage? Is it too late to break this and turn that around?

You know, although there is a certain point where there's no, there's no, you know, you pass a certain point and there's no turning back.

But for—

but no, you probably haven't hit that. If you're wondering that question, no, you haven't hit that point yet. I haven't, yeah. And there's a lot of science that shows that once you stop eating sugar, that our cells and our organs and our tissues start to rapidly heal and repair. themselves because they're not bombarded with so much inflammation. Sugar is so pro-inflammatory, and inflammation just causes all the problems in our arteries, in our heart, brain, like everything. When you stop the onslaught of the inflammation caused by sugar, then your body can start to repair.

So I'm gonna get into your story for a minute here because you have a really fascinating story, but I want to, before I do that, mention that my husband and I were talking yesterday About we noticed a theme with some super powerful entrepreneurs that like maybe in the tech space or in some areas that the ones that maybe don't sleep at night and they're just grinding away and they're maybe not so healthy, but they are one of those like they're grinding all day and they all seem to have this commonality of candy everywhere, this sugar addiction. And you see it like when you hear about it with like Facebook headquarters or we've even been to some tech headquarters where they just have candy everywhere. Have you heard that? Have you seen that?

I have heard of that. And it's not a sign of high performance by any stretch of the imagination, but our brain needs glucose to function. So when you're on that sugar roller coaster, you know, when you start your day with a sweet breakfast, then you automatically set yourself up at a disadvantage because your blood sugar spikes and then it's going to crash and then you're going to crave and then you're going to spike again and then you're going to crash again. And so you're always needing that kind of fuel because when your blood sugar crashes, It's not just that you're feeling hungry, it's that your brain is hungry. Your nervous system, like, you're going to be shaking, you're not going to be thinking clearly. So it just creates this terrible loop of— it's like, I don't know.

Yeah, we just— it was just funny. We just put that together. We just put that together and noticed, like, why is it we're finding this commonality in the tech spaces? So it's always like younger people and they're— it's like in a— but we see it like an addiction. Like, it's a constant feeding and fueling. Okay, so that brings me to your story. I want to get into that because you have a very strong background here. So, I met Kita from my good friend, Allison, who many of my listeners have met before. And, you've got a fascinating story. Now, you've been sober from alcohol for, my gosh, almost 40 years. I mean, you quit drugs, you quit meat, which is really hard. Tell us a little bit about that and how this even ties into sugar here.

Well, I feel like sugar was my first addiction and it started when I was young. And, I'm of a certain age that, you know, there was no restrictions on sugar back in the '70s. And so I was drinking a 6-pack of Pepsi a day and eating Susie Q's for breakfast and have, you know, I brought handfuls of candy to school that I would eat all during the day in between, you know, lunch and, you know, recess and stuff. And it just went on. Before I started any other addiction, I was hooked on sugar.

Do you remember having like? I remember having table sugar. Do you remember having table sugar on like for breakfast? I remember we would pour cereal and then dump table sugar on top of it. Did you do that too? Yes. That was a very seventies thing.

Absolutely. Yep. Oh yeah, on sweet cereal, on frosted cornflakes with sugar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just so much sugar. Yeah. So then what happened? It started really young.

Okay. So sugar was really your first addiction, but you didn't think of it as an addiction. And then so what had what happened? Tell us a little bit about your journey. I know this that's not necessarily what this is about, but. But about the journey with alcohol, because you believe that there is— there's sort of a— they go together in some ways.

They definitely go together because, yeah, I mean, if you're drinking all the time, I mean, how is alcohol processed? It's processed very similarly. And when you wake up hungover, your blood sugar is like crashed. And so it's just a very big part of that vicious cycle. Like, you have to keep feeding it. And so something that I didn't understand While I was going through all these different addictions, you know, alcohol, and then later it was cocaine, marijuana, of course, cigarettes, all anything you could be addicted to. I didn't realize that all through my life I had hypoglycemia.

Oh.

And that was one of the things that was driving some of that behavior. Yeah, I was, you know, viewed as a problem child when I was young, before I started any addiction. And, you know, my parents never looked to see, you know, is she acting up because she's hungry? Mm.

So do you— that's okay then. That's an interesting connection there. So hypoglycemia, from the way— and I know you're an herbalist, so not necessarily a medical doctor, but if you could explain for people that don't know what that means, what is hypoglycemia? What's your understanding of that?

Hypoglycemia is when you have your blood sugar spikes and then it crashes. But then you don't have enough blood, you don't have enough glucose in your bloodstream.

Okay.

You have the insulin, but you don't have enough blood sugar. And so when you don't have enough blood sugar, then it's like your cells are starving. And so that would create all kinds of erratic behavior, moods, your brain's not functioning properly. I would be shaky, I would be really irritable. And I think that's very common with kids when they're going through those crazy blood sugar spikes. And especially if you tend to be hypoglycemic where I don't— I'm not a medical doctor, and I can't really explain the whole mechanism of hypoglycemia other than you just don't have enough glucose.

It's like a blood sugar dysregulation. So it's a blood sugar dysregulation. Your body's not firing as it needs things. So help me understand a little bit about just on the addiction side of things. It's my understanding, and I've really changed my understanding of addiction over the years, where I feel like a lot of times we're conditioned to look at people that are addicted as like, what's wrong with you? Like, you were lazy or you were weak. I've really changed my understanding of it, that addiction is the solution to a problem, meaning people that are hurting and trying to regulate their brain and feel normal, they tend to turn to substances. Would you agree with that?

Completely agree. And one of the reasons is that, like, substance like sugar, it hits the same part of the brain that cocaine does. It triggers extreme pleasure. And so you get that big hit of dopamine, and then when that goes away, you want more and more. And so that's one of the ways that you regulate how you feel inside your own skin.

Is that why someone would turn to cocaine? Like, help me understand that, because that's not something I've personally fallen into. But for somebody listening that doesn't understand— okay.

Well, I mean, if you tend toward addiction, I mean, sugar is that first thing, but yes, it affects your brain in the same way that cocaine does.

Wow.

Wow. Okay. Because cocaine is like, for people that have never— I don't recommend it. Yeah, no, no, I know you're not recommending it. But, um, the reason I'm asking is like, it triggers intense pleasure, and then that goes away really quickly, and then you just want it again.

I'm asking that because, one, people listening, I think people fall into these boxes about addiction, so, and I want to explain first, I want to understand first. Why even addiction on an extreme like that happens, so then we can even bring it down to sugar. Because I know when you say cocaine or somebody hears that, some people hear that as an extreme, like, what? How is that even a comparison? And, what I've come to understand is it's maybe an extreme level of trying to regulate your brain because maybe it started with sugar, it started with something else, but it's a cry to feel normal.

Yeah.

I would imagine.

It is. It is. And I mean, that's tied to a whole lot of, you know, life circumstances and traumas and things like that. You know, if you had a lot of emotional traumas, or you just were never taught how to regulate your own emotional responses, then like you, you just, you're hurting.

Like you said, you're hurting.

Yeah. And a person that is hurting wants to feel better. A person that's not hurting isn't going to try to numb themselves or Right. To medicate themselves.

Right.

So that's really the root of it. But I mean, the reason that sugar is compared to cocaine is because it acts the same in the brain. Wow.

Okay. So we've all seen like the meme or the statement that it's more addictive than cocaine. And some people get very triggered by that. Like, what? How can you even compare? But the way you're saying it, they're doing the same thing. And if I'm understanding, they're both producing that dopamine.

It's triggering your dopamine. Yeah. It's triggering your pleasure centers and your feel-good centers. So it's doing— the sugar hits the same feel-good chemicals that doing an illegal, terrible narcotic does.

Okay. How did you kind of wake up to— tell us sort of the transition. Where did you realize, okay, this is a problem? Talking first about kind of the alcohol and the cocaine, and then we're going to really get into sugar here, how you connected this. But where was the wake-up that, wait. There is a bigger problem going on here. I need to stop this. And then, I want to move sort of into sugar and how you connected that, wait, the actual problem started here.

Right. Well, I mean, when I realized that, you know, I was having a drug problem is when I was, you know, I just, I knew I couldn't stop. And so, I just prayed about it. And, um, and I, and I got stopped. All right. I got, I don't know how much of the story you read, but I was arrested.

Yeah, I read it. I want my audience to hear that because I want them to read and learn more. So tell us what you can tell about that because this was— you've got some pretty wild stories here.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. But that's what addiction can do to your brain. I mean, you take a normal person, a healthy child, and they go through some stuff. They don't know how to regulate it. The parents don't know what to do with these kids. And so they take it upon themselves. And that's what I did. I took it upon myself, like, okay, I got to get out of this. this environment.

It sucks.

Um, I don't know how to regulate myself. This, this, this will do it, or whatever else. I mean, yeah, you know, this will do it. All the substances would help to regulate. But I, I saw myself sitting in this house, drugs all around me, and I was sitting in my room alone, and I felt so bad. And I just prayed. I said, please, God, I can't stop this, so I need your help.

Wow.

And, you know, within a week or so, I got arrested. So that was the answer to my prayer.

But I just got chills around that. I just got chills around that because I've heard many stories about people and they call it surrendering. It's like that surrender, like, I have no control here. I need an intervention. I need help. And it's wild how God worked there for you because that arrest, even though you probably thought this is the worst thing that could happen, sounds like that was your wake-up call.

It was the wake-up call. And while I was locked up, I met a woman who took me under her wing and she became a mentor. She was— she didn't use the term, but other people would call her a medicine woman. She was a natural healer. She was very connected spiritually. And she, you know, she wasn't a doctor, but she did understand some basic things about health and well-being. And after she got to know me a little bit, she said, You know what? I think you have hypoglycemia. I think that is the root of the issue. And so I didn't have a lot of resources to look it up, and there was no internet in jail in 1980, but I learned what I could and started taking measures to regulate my blood sugar. Like, I would have snacks with me, and that's something that I carried. How scary.

I'm just thinking of you as this young girl, because you must— were you in your 20s? Were you a teen? How old were you when this happened? Yes, 20.

Okay.

I'm thinking, You must have been here, you're so scared, you're like arrested in jail, like, and, and you've been pulled off of everything because now you're in jail. And I'm assuming not everyone was super friendly and wanting to take you under their wings there. So what an interesting blessing that this woman—

Such a blessing. I mean, she was like, she was the angel that swooped in, and she was kind of like a surrogate mother. She really, she guided me, she taught me a lot of things. And she, she's the person that turned me onto the healing herbs.

Wow. That's, I mean, talk about a, I mean, that's like a serious God moment. I mean, I'm thinking of you at your absolute worst and then, wow. Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, here's, here's your direction. This is, this is what God said is this is your direction. You're gonna learn about the healing plants.

So did you then through, so through her, you sort of figured out Wait a minute, this is the root of why I've gotten into trouble. This is why I was doing these things. And then you linked it back to, this really goes deeper. This is with sugar. Yeah.

Yeah. It's been, you know, that was back in the '80s. I'm still on a healing journey now. You know, even though I've been sober for, you know, since 1986, you know, from drugs and alcohol.

Yeah.

But the healing still continues because all that stuff that All that childhood stuff, and it still has to be addressed at some point.

Totally.

So, and that becomes part of our mindset. And that's why when I, you know, I don't know if you wanna jump ahead to the book this far, but I have a, probably one of the longest chapters is about how you think and how you talk to yourself because our identity is one of the biggest drivers of addiction.

Well, let's, I do wanna talk about that. So I'm gonna, we're gonna kind of, let's go actually into that. And by the way, y'all, I wanna just sort of, Spoiler alert on here. When you're listening to Kita, I wanted to have this conversation with her because not only is she became did she become a super successful herbalist, she runs an incredible company around tea, which we're going to get into. And she also just wrote a book. You know, Sugar Can F Itself. We're going to talk about that title here. But she's also a midlife woman. So she's like us. Like she gets it and she's thriving now. She is healthy. She is. She is thriving, and so she took like this terrible time in her life and really had a huge comeback. And when you ask her what was that, it was breaking through this and understanding what sugar was doing to her. And that's why I was like, this is such an important topic because I don't know most women that they're connecting this, that they're blame. They we've moved on to other things. They're they're self-regulating with alcohol or Xanax or. whatever else there is and not understanding that this, it could be the root of so many things, whether you're hypoglycemic or not. Like, this is, this is the root of things.

Absolutely. Well, it's, it causes so much inflammation in your body, and they say inflammation is at the root of just about every serious disease there is. Sugar is one of the major causes of inflammation in your body, a high-sugar diet. I mean, you have to have enough sugar in your body, but, uh, you know, the American Heart Association came out with this really groundbreaking study that showed that it wasn't fat that was the problem. It's sugar that's causing all the cardiovascular diseases because it's so pro-inflammatory. And they've set some guidelines that women shouldn't have more than 25 grams of sugar a day. That's like, what, 6 teaspoons or something like that? That's not the goal that you want to hit. Yeah, that's your maximum ceiling. And so I really want to clarify that for anybody that's saying, oh yeah, yeah, no more grams yet.

Yeah, but I want— let's talk because one bowl of ice cream is more than that. I mean, it's like, Yes. It's easy to surpass that. So, one of the reasons I—

One Gatorade.

Oh, wow. One Gatorade. Yeah. One of the things, one of the reasons I think GLPs are so successful with people is they bring down that sugar level, right? They bring down the A1C. However, you're not really necessarily fixing the root. You're like, you're kind of reversing after where we could do— this is important too because the last thing you want to do is a GLP and now you just start eating a lot of sugar. That's not fixing anything either. Right.

Yeah, I had a customer who was using cinnamon to regulate her blood sugar, and she was taking a teaspoon of cinnamon several times a day. I mean, that's a lot of cinnamon.

Yeah.

And I asked her why she takes that much, and she said, because I like to eat cake.

Wow.

It's like, well, if you stopped eating cake, you wouldn't need all this cinnamon.

Okay, let's get into the problems specifically with sugar first, and then I have a lot I want to ask you here, so I know I'm bouncing all over the place, but let's sort of start here. Like, what is— because I know someone listening is like, Well, I don't have a problem. Like, I don't have a problem. I'm okay. So, let's talk about what happens if you ignore this and keep going with sugar. What happens?

Like, eating 25 grams a day of added sugar, if your body doesn't process it right, you can be experiencing all kinds of bloating and brain fog and inflammation. Your inflammation could be worse, but you're doing everything right. You could be eating like a Larabar, which is healthy. You could be drinking a kombucha, which is healthy. You could be doing all the right things and have too much sugar in your diet. You could be eating, um, like a wonderful salmon salad lunch and using a dressing that's got 10 grams of sugar in it.

Sure.

You know, so you could be adding sugar into all your healthy things. You could be, you know, let's go eat Chinese. So we go have like, uh, that orange chicken or teriyaki. There's a lot of sugar in that. So you're doing everything right, And, you don't even see that sugar is hiding in a lot of things. Yeah.

And, when this starts adding up and we start getting higher blood sugar, especially as we age, I mean, I think about if you look at what Western medicine would consider pre-diabetic, you're looking at about a 5.7 to 5.8 A1C. That means it's your fasting blood sugar, your blood sugar, sorry, your blood sugar over a 3-month period average. However, I've interviewed many functional medicine doctors, naturopaths, they would say that you're already too high. That's already too high that if you get into the 5.3, 5.4, they don't want to see that. That's really showing the beginnings of prediabetes. And, there's also been many, many links to chronically higher blood sugar not just with creating diabetes but linking to cancers, to Alzheimer's, to just almost everything is linked to that. And, I believe a big reason that we're showing so much promise with the GLP peptides is because when they say it's It's lowering risk of disease. It's because of that blood sugar. So it's really wild there. There's just this huge connection to blood sugar and that and disease.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's one thing that we can control. You know, even when you do everything right, once you pass a certain threshold, you know, when your estrogen is down and you become less sensitive to insulin, you could be Okay.

So, I know the next question is, and I'm going to— believe me, I promise you all, we're going to get into sort of what we can do about this, like how do we stop the cravings? Because I know everyone's asking that, like, okay, well, what do we do? We do have a solution, but I want to make sure we're really talking through this first too. Where are we getting sugar that we're not realizing we're getting sugar? Because I know it makes common sense that, like, oh, if I have gummy bears or if I have ice cream. But help us understand that. Like, where is this hiding?

Granola, yogurt, salad dressings, tomato sauce, barbecue sauce, tomato soup, some, uh, like snacks, Chinese food, Thai food.

Wow.

It's really in everything. If you don't read the label and you just assume, like, when it says all natural, no added, uh, no added flavors or anything like that, you're assuming, oh, this is Great. If you're not turning that over and you're looking at, um, on the label, you want to make sure that it doesn't have added sugars.

Now, do you consider fruits, like fruits and like fructose, would you put that in the same camp?

Fruit, like whole natural fruit, is wonderful. Um, but it's also important, like, when you eat it.

Mm-hmm.

Because if you eat like a whole bowl of cherries by itself, your blood sugar's gonna go up.

Yeah.

Even though it's fruit. Fruit is better than anything refined because fruit is, it's not just glucose or fructose by itself. It's in fiber. And there's vitamins, there's antioxidants. So you're getting a whole lot of good things in fruit that you're not getting with the other sweet stuff. If you eat it like fresh, whole, And, um, like after you have a meal would be a better time to eat it than on its own. So, you know, if you have it— oh, go ahead.

No, I would say I've told clients to, if you're going to have it, just as long as we're combining it with fat and protein, we're going to slow down the absorption. Would you agree with that? Is that—

Yes, like apple and peanut butter. Yeah. Yeah.

Because you're going to slow it down because you eat a little protein and some fat in there to slow down that, how it's hitting you so fast. Yeah. But you call it a wrecking ball. I know in your book you said it's actually inside our bodies. It's not just causing— it's not just that blood sugar spike, you're causing inflammation. You say gut damage, insulin resistance, hormonal chaos, cortisol dysregulation, brain fog, mood. And you said it's also aging skin at the cellular level.

Yeah. Yeah. It does all the things that we don't want it to do, especially when you're over 40, especially when you don't have that estrogen plumping up your skin. You know, sugar is going to make your face look older.

Yeah. What about women that say, okay, I'm kind of hearing you here, but I do artificial sweeteners. I don't use sugar. What would you have to say about that?

I am so not a fan of artificial sweeteners. The science with the, you know, the aspartame and stuff like that, it's just shown that that is just no good for you. It's really damaging to your gut. It dysregulates your gut flora. because one of the sneaky things that it does is your taste buds perceive a sweet flavor. That sweet flavor goes up to your brain. Your brain is then looking for glucose. It's expecting glucose. And when it doesn't get the glucose, the craving for sweets increases. So you're really working against yourself. But the natural ones like stevia and erythritol, they both come with potential damages as well. Stevia for gut dysregulation and erythritol because it's been shown to have— it can affect blood clotting.

Really?

Yeah, yeah, it can be damaging to your cardiovascular system. Wow.

What about things like monk fruit?

I think monk fruit is fine as far as all that goes. And there's a reason why I didn't mention that as good to take is because when you're trying to stop a sugar habit, you've got to retrain your palate.

Yeah.

And so it's not just the glucose itself, but it's that pleasure of eating sweets. Once you stop eating sweets, you stop craving them. But if you never stop, then that craving never goes away. So if you're just substituting it with something like monk fruit, Mm-hmm. It's not going to help. So it's not harmful, but it's not helpful.

One of the solutions you created in your company with tea is a specific herb you found that changes how we taste or perceive sugar. Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, it's an herb. It's a remarkable herb from India, and it's called Gymnema sylvestre. And if you taste it by itself, it tastes absolutely horrible. But if you like, I know how to blend it to make it taste good. So I blend it with other herbs, it tastes good. But what it does when you, when you have it in your mouth is it contains a compound called gymnemic acid, which fills in the sugar receptors on your tongue temporarily, which is going to blunt your perception of the sweet flavor anywhere from 50 to 100%. So if you were to, you know, drink a cup of the tea that has Gymnema in it, And then afterward you have a cupcake. Your cupcake is going to be like a muffin with butter on it. It's like you're not going to taste the sweet. Like frosting will taste like butter. A chocolate bar tastes like a bar of wax. You'll get all the other tastes.

That's funny.

Like if you have a bean burrito, it's going to taste just like a bean burrito. So it's not going to affect anything but the sugar. It'll also affect the sweet taste of fruit. And I've like drank some Gymnema tea and then had, you know, I've had like some, you know, some grapes or something afterwards. Like, what's wrong with these grapes? Oh, wait a minute. Nothing is wrong with them.

Yeah, it's funny because you had sent me your tea a while back and I remember I didn't— I forgot like that's what it does. And I'm just, you know, having it as a— and then I went and grabbed it like, what's wrong with my food? What is wrong with this? So it's a smart trick because it's like you're not saying no, you can't have it. You're saying, okay, you can. But let's have the tea first and then see, and then you're going to eat less of the other thing.

Yes. It's, it's like aversion therapy, but it also, um, like, I'm not exactly sure of the mechanism, but what, what I got from the research is that it sends, it also sends a signal to your brain that you don't want sugar. So it's not just your taste buds.

How often a day could you drink this? Is there any negatives to it?

I think, you know, some people, you know, if you have certain medical conditions, if you're on, uh, hypoglycemic drugs, that could be a downside. But like, if you know that you always crave a bowl of ice cream before you go to bed and you're just watching your Netflix, drink the tea before you have your craving. If you drink, if you're used to drinking sweet stuff, like, you know, a can of soda or something, drink it before you have the soda. So you can do it like 3 times a day, but do it strategically.

Yeah.

Whenever, like, that's why in the book there's a section about understanding your craving triggers, because if you're the kind of person that you just always have to have something, like always something sweet to snack on, like, you know, the tech bros that have to have their bowls of candy everywhere, right? Then they probably want to have a little thermos of the tea that they can just sip on all day. So if your cravings hit after dinner, then you want to drink the tea before dinner.

So that's a cool little trick. I like that aversion therapy. I know they do that with other things that people get addicted to where there's prescriptions you can take. So this is like a more natural way to do it. But what's coming up for me around it is you had shared that there's a reason we're craving the sugar. So especially people that have a severe sugar craving, so they're craving that dopamine, they're looking for it.

Yeah.

So if you drink the tea, you might create the aversion to it, but it's not fixing that So I want to talk about that. Like, what do we do there?

Well, it may not do it right away, but eventually, like anywhere from 5 to 90 days. For me, like a week, it would work within a week. But, uh, like somebody that works for, for my company, um, it took her 60 days.

Wow. So when you say it works, like what, what happens? Like your body stops needing that for dopamine or what, what is happening?

You just stop craving the sweet when you drink the tea instead of eating something sweet.

So, your body would naturally produce the dopamine that you need versus you needing the sweet to have it?

Okay.

You see what I'm asking there?

Yeah, I do.

And, the reason I'm asking that—

What would give you the pleasure?

Yeah. I guess I'm going— I know you said that there's some things that we have to look at in addition to why you're craving it, and we're going to talk about that. But, I guess what I'm thinking is if we're taking away— there's a reason we were craving it, right? There's a reason that you're needing it. So, sometimes I believe it could just be out of habit. You're It's a habit. You like it. You enjoy it. But if it's someone like what you had, like you literally had hypoglycemia, your body was looking for for that dopamine. What hap? I'm just so curious what happens. Like where?

Well, you can eat something else that has protein and fiber and fat. Like if you're craving something really sweet, an apple and peanut butter, crackers and hummus, you know, just open a can of sardines and have you know it's just something that's going to give your body. Nutrition.

So you're basically training your body to use the nutrition versus the fast sugar for the same reaction. Okay, exactly.

Because like, if you're craving it because your blood sugar is low, then have something that will boost it, but that, you know, it's not gonna like, you know, don't have like white rice. Yeah, something that's, you know, that's got some fiber and some protein, some fat, and, um, just keep your blood sugar stable throughout the day. So it really— that's why there's a whole section on it, like to really identify why you're craving it. And if you're craving it because it's just a habit, then you got to do something to break the habit. Like, there's a little technique of— it's called the 5-minute timeout. So you set your phone timer for 5 minutes and then you go do something else.

Okay.

And if you can distract your brain for 5 minutes, then often that craving will go away.

Got it.

You know, you just go do a plank, go wash your hands, go call your bestie.

Yeah.

Go bug somebody at work. Like, go do something else, you know? Go pester somebody. Yeah, play 5 minutes of video games. Whatever you need to do.

Now, I know you didn't say this, but what's coming up for me is kind of maybe similar to people that need caffeine for things. Like, they start thinking they need caffeine to get going. Like, so it's like, I need caffeine, I need caffeine, I need caffeine. Once they break through it and aren't— they don't need it to get going. So your body will regulate. So if I'm hearing you correct, part of that sugar craving, we've gotten our bodies trained that that's giving you the response. So, instead of just cutting cold turkey, you're saying there's things you can do to change the response to it. So, you have that, it's like an inversion or whatever. You're still going to have to adjust and get used to it. This just helps you make it easier. But, once you break through that, your body's not going to necessarily need it for that feeling. Is that accurate? Yeah.

Yeah, you just won't want— you just won't want sugar.

Yeah.

Once— I mean, you, you might want to do something else, like, you know, but if you get addicted to, to your tea, okay.

Yeah.

That's a habit that, you know, because you— it could be a process addiction. Like, some people have a process addiction where at a certain time of day, like, they like to open up something and hear a little crinkle of the paper, and it's, you know, signals that their day is done. They can relax. So it's not just what it is that they're eating, it's the process of it. So you can get, you know, you can have a— develop a healthy habit where I wouldn't even call, like, you know, if you swap a tea habit for a sugar habit, it's not necessarily an addiction. It's a habit.

Yeah.

And you can create new habits. Yeah. So it's— self-awareness is really important because if you know why You're craving it and when you're craving it, and then you can create a plan. And it doesn't have to hurt that much, but you just gotta expect that it's gonna suck for some people for a little while. Like, you know, yeah, it— you don't get to have that bowl of ice cream that just looks so delicious. You know, you take the kids out for ice cream and, oh, oh shoot, mom can't have it.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it, it's a, it's a little awkward, but At some point, you've got to decide, like, what is harder? Going to get it, you know, your kidneys fail, you know, going to the hospital to, you know, try to get a kidney replacement, or to not eat that ice cream? What is harder?

So you talk about in the book, you actually have a chapter called The BS That Is Sugar Substitutes. And I know we just touched on that a bit, but one of the things that you mentioned that I Is that by doing that, you're not fixing the craving, you're just keeping that craving loop going.

You are, you're keeping the craving loop going. And so, um, even if it's all natural, you know, monk fruit, and it's not harmful at all, but you're, you're continuing the cycle. And it's really important to break the cycle and stop needing to taste everything so sweet. Once you retrain your palate, anything that is super sugary is going to taste gross. It's going to taste too sweet. You know that when I wasn't even trying to stop sugar, I wanted to switch from milk chocolate to dark chocolate.

Yeah. And so, which is so hard to do.

Oh my gosh. It was for the first few times. And once I started really liking dark chocolate and then I couldn't eat milk chocolate anymore. It was too sweet. It tasted gross. Really?

Really? Okay. That's good to know. So there's like hope there with that. There's hope with it.

Oh gosh. There's so much hope.

Yeah.

I had another friend who Would eat one to two pints of Ben and Jerry a night.

Wow.

And then they started taking Gymnema, and after about a week, they said that the the ice cream tasted like it just had like all these sugar crystals, and it was really grossing them out.

Yeah, yeah. Do you still to this day drink Gymnema? Ninya every day? I'm pronouncing. Am I pronouncing it right?

I don't every day. I I don't every day. I did for many years. Like, I— there's a tea called Sleek and Slender that I drank every day for like 9 years. Wow. Yeah.

And that's how easy it is.

So now I just like, I'll binge on it sometimes. Like, I'll have, uh, the sugar-proof tea because it tastes really good. Uh, Sleek and Slender has a tiny bit of caffeine and I can't do caffeine anymore.

Yeah. Um, but you don't— and so, but, but do not drink the tea and add honey to it because that's what I think some people— they were not fixing the problem, right?

Right.

Yeah. And if you did that, I would imagine you're going to taste it because it has to coat your tongue first. So, you can't put a sweetener in it or it's going to create that other problem. That makes sense.

Exactly.

Okay. So, you mentioned that not only is it hiding in so many places, but you have to read labels. What are some things that we need to look for in labels to make sure that we're not getting sugar that maybe women are missing because they think something's fine?

Yeah, there's a lot of names that sugar goes by. And, in the book, there's a whole list of those things. But, the one key thing that you want to look for is Okay. Because there's total sugars and then there's added sugar. Like if you were to get, say, a jar of applesauce, it's going to, you know, for the serving size, it's going to tell you how much total sugar is in there. And then there's going to have a little section underneath it called added sugar, and that's going to be zero. So you're going to know that the sugar that's in that is from the apples.

So it's just from the natural stuff. Yeah.

Right. Right. But if you get like a barbecue sauce, And like, there was this one kind of barbecue sauce. I don't remember the exact brand of it, but it had like 5 or 6 different kinds of sugar. It had honey, molasses, rice bran syrup. It had like so many different kinds of sweetener in it. It had a ton of added sugar. So looking at that added sugar, but also the total sugar, because if you— Have something that doesn't have any added sugar, but it's like 10 grams of sugar. Well, that's just almost half of your allotment for the day. And that's not including if you have any fruit, if you have any apples, or if you have any, um, like if you have a yogurt. Oh, and yogurt is another one where people think it's like super healthy, but if you look at the, the sugars on that, that might be— that might have like 12 to 15 grams of sugar in a little tiny cup. Wow.

Yeah, I think that's the misleading thing. I think people think that they're grabbing something healthy, they're grabbing it fine, and they're not realizing what that's doing there and what that's creating. What that's creating, actually. So, you talk about how we talk to ourselves too. And, I think this is an important part to cover because there is a story that especially after a hard day or a stressful day, it's like that, well, I deserve this, or, I'll just have one, negotiation, or I have— or maybe it's the opposite. They believe they just have no willpower, so they can't control it. It's just, it's going to happen. Can you help us with that part? What do we do there?

The first thing to do is know what that is. So what is it that you say to yourself? Are you saying to yourself, I can't, it's too hard? Are you saying, this is just how I am? And whatever phrase that you're saying to yourself, Make— you got to make a new phrase. Like, um, if it's something like, uh, this is just what I've always done, this is just how I always eat, I always have to have something sweet after a meal.

Yeah.

So if you were to rephrase that and say, in the past I used to have something sweet, but since I decided to make a change and eat healthier without sugar, I no longer have that. So, you've done a couple of different things for your brain is you've put your old behavior in the past by saying, in the past, I used to do this. So now, your brain hears you saying that and it's going to say, oh, okay, we don't do that anymore. And then, you use a power word like decide. When I decided to make a change, now I just don't have it. And you know, you could say things that, you know, if you use a power word like decide, or you can say things that create believable progress like, Every day this gets easier for me. So it's not saying that you're loving every second of not having sugar. You're saying that, okay, today's easier than yesterday. Tomorrow's going to be easier than today.

Yeah.

So it's really taking those words that you're saying to yourself, it gets to be hard, I can't, this is difficult, and stop that because you can. You can do hard things.

You do hard things all the time.

You learn to tie your shoes. You learned to drive a car. You learned how to walk when you were a baby. You didn't know how to do that. I mean, that's a lot harder than it is to change a dietary thing, right? You learned languages.

It's so— I mean, even as I'm asking you these questions, I hear my own brain negotiating. It's like, that's how powerful sugar is. I'm still stuck on when you said you switched from milk chocolate to dark chocolate because I'm like, I don't like that. I still have milk chocolate sometimes. Like, so, so how— it's, it's really wild how powerful that is. It's so like, we don't want our brains to believe that sugar is that bad.

Right, right. Because, well, there's another reason for it is— well, a possible reason, not everybody, but for many people, when you're little, you're taught that if you eat, if you're good, you get to have dessert, and if you're bad, you And nobody wants to be bad. So we associate sugar with good and eating only vegetables as punishment, when it's really the opposite. Like, you're really punishing your body with sugar and you're rewarding your body with the vegetables. But we get it. That— so it's, it's tied to identity as well as habit.

Well, think about every celebration, it's a cake too. Like, so you think of birthdays and cake. So this is like a lot A lot of unprogramming we have to do.

Yeah, it is. And it can— that's why there's a section on how to deal with peer pressure.

Yeah. Help us with that. And I know, for those that have not read the book yet, but give us some takeaway, some tips there, because I know that's coming up too. What happens when so-and-so brings me cake for my birthday or when my husband's wanting that or we're out to dinner with friends and they want to share dessert? Like, because I know even my own brain's like, well, gosh, what's the harm in like a couple bites? Or like, so like, what, how do we change that conversation? Like, what do we do with that?

Yeah. Um, well, you got to have a plan and knowing what's going to, what's coming. Like if you're going to somebody's birthday party, you know, they're going to have cake. Don't go there hungry. And you don't have, like, if you really know that they're going to have a cow, if you don't have it, you can get a plate.

Yeah.

You can say thank you. You can put a fork in it. You don't have to put it to your mouth. You can just like, like dig around with it and then you can set it down, like go to another room, set it down, come out. Like you, you don't have to make a scene. It's better to not make a scene. However, like you could be in a situation where you could just, you know, you can have a phrase that you say like, can't do it, doctor's orders. Or I stopped eating sugar for my health. Or, um, this is the thing that, that like I think and I say, and I feel like this can be probably a game changer for people, is if you say, that looks amazing, and if I still ate sugar, I would eat it.

I like that. So you're acknowledging that looks amazing, and if I still ate sugar, I would eat that.

Yeah.

And then I think what comes up, because so many women are people pleasers too, I mean, me included many times, is then we feel like we have to justify. And I want women to hear that no is a complete sentence. You don't have to justify. I've learned, let's just say I'm a celiac, for example, and I can't have gluten. I'll get very sick with gluten. And I don't explain it anymore though. I just say I'm— because if I say it, there's always someone that thinks they know more than me and like, oh, but you can have it if this or if that. And I just don't feel like having the conversation. So, I just avoid it. I'm just like— so, I just say, oh, I don't even get into it. I'm just choosing not to because I think that if we— so, as we feel like we have to defend ourselves, that creates the problem and that creates more stress and then we're craving it more, right? I think that's what happens.

Because there's some people that just they'll get so offended if you don't eat what they make. And, they would rather have you hurt your health than not eat their, their cookies or their strudel.

Or they really believe that you're wrong on it. So it's like, it's just going to create this stressful conversation. So I think it's easier just to say, thanks, I'm full, or, you know, I'm, I'm gonna pass.

I need another bite. Yep, couldn't eat another bite. Um, I'm watching, watching what I'm eating right now. You can blame the doctor, say, I can't do it, doctor's orders, I can't, I have to cut down on sugar.

Or just say, no thanks. Yeah, and like, end of story. Yeah, I'd say, no thanks.

Looks amazing, but I couldn't eat another bite.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I do think that, and I've noticed that happens a lot, like where people feel like they have to justify or explain what they're doing and their choices. And the bottom line is like, we're all so unique and so different. Like, we have dietary choices outside of that. Like, you could be a vegan having dinner with your carnivore friend and you're not going to see eye to eye on it. So there's no point in having that discussion.

Right. I mean, you're not going to shout at them that meat is murder. I mean, you're just going to let them have it.

Some might, some might, and then there's a big fight, right?

And, it's better to not.

It's better to not. It's just to stay out of it. It's like we say don't talk about religion and politics at dinner, but I almost think you shouldn't talk about your food at dinner either because that happens too, right? People have such extreme choices now.

Yeah, don't be the sugar police.

Yeah. And, I think everyone does what's best for them, right? So, Everyone does what's best with that. So I guess what I want, you know, first of all, I have a lot of questions about your book too. Like, how did— why did you name it this? You named it— I'm not even saying it because I'm not like— I'm not a curser, but she says Sugar Can F Itself. Sugar Can F Itself. It's a great book, but why that name?

That's an extreme name. I did it very intentionally. Yeah, it's extreme because I, I don't want to be polite about sugar because sugar is not polite to your body. I liken being, uh, having— eating sugar like having a sugar addiction. A high sugar diet is like being in a relationship with a narcissist.

Really? How so? Explain that.

Sugar is sweet and lovey-dovey to your face. It tastes great, but behind your back, it's secretly plotting to kill you.

Wow.

That is what sugar is doing. And so you have to kick it out of your life. And you don't, you don't do that with like gentle language. So I really wanted to grab attention. And yeah, if I'm pushing some buttons with that title, and I've had some people email me about, you know, what a terrible title. Well, it got your attention, didn't it? Yeah. Sugar addiction is way worse than any F-word could ever be.

You know what's wild? If there was a book called Cocaine Can F Itself, no one would have a problem. Right.

So, right.

That's wild. Like, we're so defensive of sugar.

Yeah. Of the thing that's hurting you. And that's why I, you know, I talk a lot about having that— it's like a narcissist relationship. Why?

You have to kick it out.

You have to break up with it.

But why are you so passionate about this and writing the book now? Because you figured this out for yourself. You figured this out for many, many clients you worked with. You have an incredibly successful tea company, which we're going to link below, by the way, Loose Leaf Tea. And it's incredible. She's got so many great teas. But this one for the— what's the one to fight sugar so everyone can know? What's that one? What do you want to make it about?

Sugar Proof.

Sugar Proof. I'm going to link all this below. And you do so well with that. So why even write a book right now? What made you passionate about, I've got to write a book right now?

Well, it, because you, you know, to bring it back to the one thing-itis, people are looking for the one thing that can make the change. That is one thing that can make such a big change in your life. People need to know.

Yeah. And it must make you mad that you see everything else being talked about and like sugar gets kicked under the rug. I would imagine.

Yeah.

Right.

It, it, it is really frustrating to see what people are doing to their bodies willingly. Like, did you see the movie WALL-E with your— you have a daughter, right?

I do, but I didn't see it.

Did you see the movie?

No.

Okay, yeah, it's about this future where Earth is no longer habitable and all the people are living up in this spaceship and they don't even move anymore. They're all obese and they're all riding around on these little pods with these sweet drinks. They can no longer function like normal humans.

Wow. Yeah, I look at almost every disease out there, there's a link with sugar. It's just— and it's— it feels— it's so misleading because like you said, we look at it as this treat. We look at it, it's like this reward for a thing.

Yeah.

And I'd never heard that analogy about the narcissistic relationship. That's so wild. Like, um, but it really is deceiving and Almost everything can be reversed by watching and eliminating sugar. And we, we make so many pharmaceuticals to try to fix the problems from it, right? But if we just could avoid it—

There's so much science, so much science behind it, you know? And it's just showing like how it affects every single aspect of your health— your brain, your heart, your blood vessels, your blood pressure, your cortisol levels, your digestion, your inflam— Your musculoskeletal system, your nervous system, every single system in your body is impacted by a high sugar diet. And a high sugar diet is anything over 25 grams of added sugar a day.

So if you personally, and I know you won't, but if you were to personally go back to eating sugar, do you think that would trigger other addictions again?

Uh, no, I don't think so. I don't think it would, like, I wouldn't start smoking again or drinking. Um, but I, I can't because, uh, like literally if I— I'll give you an example. I was visiting family last week and we went out to dinner and, um, occasionally I have like a little square of dark chocolate.

Yeah.

So I was with them and I had 2 squares and then for dinner, um, I had salmon with teriyaki vegetables and it was Rice. So I had those 2 squares of chocolate and I had the— I didn't even eat all the rice. I ate like maybe half of the rice and all the, you know, all the protein and all the veggies. I woke up the next morning feeling like I drank.

Really?

I cannot do it. My body does not process sugar properly. So, and I'm really sensitive to it.

So, but I, this is not unique. I think there's more people sensitive to it than realize, Yeah. But, one thing I'm really learning from you, and I have learned from you, is even if you do not think you're sensitive to it, it is causing more damage than you realize. And, looking at that research on how addictive it actually is and how it does create rapid aging, even if you look at— just look at tooth decay, I mean, literally is caused from sugar being on your teeth. So, there's just so much there to that. When people say, Sugar is more addictive than cocaine. Where did that originally come from, do you think? Because I know you believe that, but where do you think that really like came from?

Well, there's there's been research on the like how the the brain chemicals that is triggered. Yeah, like it affects the same pleasure centers of the brain.

Yeah, that's wild. Yeah.

Um, oh gosh! I was just gonna say something I forgot now. Um, yeah, but uh.

By the way, sugar can. save your life in some ways too. I don't want to demonize it too much. Let me just explain.

Right.

Okay. So, for example, you're a diabetic and you've got severe low blood sugar, you would need a glucose tablet to bring that up quickly. You need some sugar in your brain. But, your body is making what it needs from the food that we're eating even without adding added sugar. So, just to be clear, keto is not demonizing the fructose, sugar from fruit or sugar for a medical need. We do need glucose in our brains. She's saying added sugar. The added sugar.

You'll get enough if you have, if you have for breakfast, like it's, like it's a typical savory breakfast. Just say you have eggs and hash browns for breakfast.

Okay.

And then for lunch you have a chicken salad.

Yeah.

With some vinegar dressing. And then for dinner you have, um, I don't know, like a, like a bowl of beef stew.

Okay.

And it has some rice in there or something. Out of all that, you're going to get enough glucose without adding anything. Yeah, you will. You'll have enough.

So, I'm one who, believe it or not— so, you talked about hypoglycemia earlier. Because I do eat a very low-sugar diet other than my milk chocolate every now and again, I do tend to get low blood sugar. That does happen. So, I am one of those people that has to literally carry glucose tablets in my gym bag, in my purse. I have them. Now, I don't need them all the time, but there have been times where I can actually literally feel low blood sugar and will need to bring it up.

Yup.

But, that's when you strategically know you literally have a low blood sugar thing. But, if you've managed your hypoglycemia or you've managed this, that shouldn't be a problem for most people, I would imagine. So, it's rare that you actually need to grab. Now, also, if you're somebody who's a marathon runner or a triathlete or long-distance stuff, you probably need some fast-action, I would imagine, sugar for that. So, it's different. But, what you're speaking about is the average normal midlife woman. We're not doing triathlons, not doing that, doesn't have blood sugar problems, That we are adding way too much. And, you know who you are if you're listening. You know if it's a problem if you're listening.

And, thank you for making that distinction. Yeah, somebody that's an athlete, I'm not talking to that person.

Yeah, she's not saying that at all. And, I want to be really clear because somebody's going to say, well, but I— and yes, for you, that might make sense. Just like I have to carry glucose tablets and so would any of my type 1 diabetic friends, they would have to carry a glucose tablet with them.

Right.

And, that would make sense for them or apple juice or whatever it is. Um, okay, so Sugar Can F Itself. You can— where can they find this book, Keto? Because I want them to go deep in here.

They can find it on our website, uh, looseleaffteamarket.com. And it is, uh, if you click on sugar busting under the shop, then you'll find it. And you can find the sugar busting tea as well. The tea comes by itself, but you can also get it in combination with the 2 sugar busting teas.

Oh, I love that. What a great combination.

Yeah.

I love this as a gift idea too for people. Like, this is such a fun gift idea. Like, to the— so it's not like, hey, just F sugar and here's the book, which is great, I understand, but here's something you can actually do about it with the tea. So I think that's great.

Well, there's a whole section in there about the tea and how the tea works and, you know, how to strategically incorporate the tea into your life because it's not going to work if it sits in your cupboard.

Yeah.

I wrote this book with the vision in mind that women are going to get together and they're going to do it together as a group. They're going to book club it. They're going to read a chapter a week and they're going to go through the steps. And at the end of each chapter, there's an assessment. And so just like get— have a pen ready and go through and do the work because it's really going to help you. It's going to make it stick.

I think a big reason people feel good when they fast or they do intermittent fasting is not just the no food, I think it's the no sugar. I really do. I've always sort of believed that because I know if you just have like, let's just say you just had protein for breakfast, I'm not saying to go do that, but if you had like protein and avocado, you still have that same clarity that you would have. It's the sugar that's the big problem. I think the cereals, the oatmeals, the high sugar breakfast, it's the issue.

Yeah.

I know for me, if I go get like a gluten-free dessert, which I did this weekend, by the way, Akita, sorry, I'm confessing. But I had a gluten-free donut, and it tasted really good going down. And then an hour later, I didn't feel amazing. It was like I had that crash feeling. So it's like a reminder, but because it happens like an hour later, you don't necessarily associate it with that. You know, that's what happens.

Well, see, okay, I think this, this is what I was going to say that I, that I forgot earlier, is that, um, with some things, there is an immediate consequence. Like, just say you drink too much, you're going to wake up feeling terrible the next And you can associate it. But if you spend 20 years eating too much sugar and then one day you're in the hospital with a heart attack, you don't put it together because the consequences aren't linked to the action. So, I mean, it's good that you saw the connection, but for— Yeah.

You're right.

So many people wouldn't understand that, you know, that donut that they ate an hour or two ago and now they feel terrible and they might be blaming, oh, the weather. Oh, It's, uh, there's something going around. No, it's what you just ate. So tie the consequence to the behavior. Makes total sense. And that's the problem with sugar. Yeah. I mean, it just, it feels so good. It tastes so good. It's, you know, it gives you this little boost. Um, a lot of people will do it, you know, if they have a fight with their significant other, they just drown their sorrows in a pack of cookies or some ice cream or something.

I know this is off topic, but while I have you, Kita, I wanted to just ask, because you have so many great teas at your company, and I know this is one of your ones that you're super passionate about, but can you just share it? Because a lot of people are going to just say, well, I just drink other teas, or I don't. Can you just explain a little bit about why loose leaf tea, why your brand? Because you do a lot of cool things about your brand that people don't know that are really helping us with our health.

Well, the fact that my background is herbalism. So like there's people that people think tea and they think it's just like Earl Grey or green tea or something like that. That's not what we do at all. We, we have teas that are created to support your body in very specific ways based on these botanicals that have been used for thousands of years. And so many of them are, are covered with tons of peer-reviewed research. So, you know, we're not just throwing things together because, you know, it's sounds fun or it's trending. Like, I put together these teas based on what, what kind of outcome we want to see people have. And also, you know, I do have a culinary background. And so I did make sure that they— yeah, I mean, some of them are kind of, you know, okay.

But you also do things like you don't put them in the regular, the plastic weird bags that people do. Like, you do a lot of cool extra things. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. There's no microplastics because we're not— because it's loose leaf tea. Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, so I mean, for some people it's an extra step, but really loose leaf tea is the gold standard of tea.

Because some people don't know that, but you get microplastics in the most— like, you go buy Lipton tea, like, I shouldn't say the brand, but like you buy like regular brands, you might be getting microplastics in those tea bags.

Thousands of microplastics in every single serving.

Which you cannot get rid of in your body, by the way. They go to your brain and they— we can't get rid of those. So my guilty pleasure on the plastics is probably my leggings. I'm just gonna own it. Like, I do like leggings because I know our skin's our biggest organ and And I know, I see the reels about the leggings. I'm like, okay, well, I won't drink my tea that way, but I might still wear leggings.

Right. Until they make leggings that'll stretch and—

They do make some, but they're not very flattering. Yeah. The ones without microplastics are just— I have not yet found— if anyone's listening and you have a brand that you know of that's good, let me know. I have not found one yet that works.

PACT.

I tried PACT. Yeah. I don't know yet. I tried. Maybe I got to be more I think I just go back to the Lululemon or whatever because they just fit so good. Yeah, I agree. That's a habit. Your next book will be Leggings Can F Themselves. I'm just kidding. Just go down there. Well, I love everything you're doing, Kita. I will link up her company, Loose Leaf Tea. I will link up the Sugar Buster Tea so you can find that. And her book, of course, is a great read. I did read it pretty quickly. It's a fun read. You could tell she's very passionate about it, and she does it in a way that doesn't make us feel guilty, like something's wrong with us. She's explaining why it happens and what we can do about it. So I love everything you're up to in the world, Kita. Thank you so much for today. Thanks.

Well, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate being on here. And if I could say any one parting thing to this beautiful audience is that if you want to have one of the most effective menopause makeovers Letting go of a sugar habit is that thing.

So good.

That's a menopause makeover.

I love that. Thank you.

Okay.