The Estrogen +Mitochondria Connection Aging Your Skin

So I know if you're a listener here, you have gotten really smart on the inside health work. Like we strength train, we hit our protein, we track our sleep, we support our hormones. We've done all the deep work to age well from the inside out. But then we walk over to the bathroom counter and we look at our skincare. And honestly, most of what we've been using is doing the same thing it did 20 years ago. Acids, vitamin C, retinol, they work on the surface, but none of them speak the same cellular language as the rest of our routine. There's a disconnect between smart inside work and what we're doing and and the skincare we're putting on top. And there's actually a new generation of skincare that doesn't just sit on top of the skin. It targets the actual root cause of why skin ages in the first place. Mitochondrial decline. Now I know you've heard that for your body, but we're now talking about it topically. So your skin cells, like every cell in your body, have mitochondria. And when those cellular engines slow down, and they do slow down in our 30s, 40s, and 50s, the skin loses the energy it needs to renew itself. So when we see wrinkles, sagging, thinning, dullness, dryness, all of that traces back to tired cells. And one Swiss longevity company has built the first topical skin line that goes after this— not collagen, not turnover, the actual power source. So I've been on a personal journey around skincare. I've been interviewing doctors, I've interviewed other companies and brands just on different ingredients in skincare because I want to understand what we can do to actually change this. So my guest today, Jennifer, she's a registered dietitian and nutritionist, and she's a senior manager of nutrition affairs at Timeline. Now, I have had her on before because I'm a huge fan of Mitopure, which is Urolithin A, and I have talked about their gummies. I've interviewed her all about how it works from the inside out, but they have a skincare line and I am very curious. A firming serum, a resurfacing exfoliator. I want to understand the science behind it. That's what this conversation is about today. What's happening to our skin? What's hype? And what we can do about it. So thanks for being here today, Jennifer.

Thanks for having me. And I am super excited to dive into this because you're absolutely right. I think we spend so much time thinking about our insides and there's a disconnect sometimes, not with everybody, but sometimes there's a disconnect of how we're thinking about our outside. And especially, which I wanna sort of dive into a bit, is like our skin is so much more than just how we look. Like it's an organ and it has a function. And if it is aging, first of all, it's the first place place that we see aging. And if there's inflammation, if there's something that's happening on the skin, there's something happening deep inside too.

So Jennifer, a lot of women, they've gotten on this whole natural kick. Like, I just want to do all natural. Like, they're, you know, they're swiping in the apps, making sure everything is like totally clean and perfect. And they're just going to use like their one castor oil or their coconut oil or their, or they're, they're looking for like the one ingredient product. What do we need to be aware of if we're doing that.

Yeah. So I certainly don't want to like poo-poo on what anybody is doing, but I think when we use these more all-natural approaches, you're missing out on these powerful actives that are able to penetrate the skin. So you're sort of just staying at this like surface level, right? Like if you're using castor oil, for example, like that's just kind of going to have that like surface level glow, but it's not really targeting what's driving the biology of what your skin is aging. So you're missing out on having that like deeper penetration that's getting to that cellular level that's helping to reverse or slow down how you're aging.

So if we kept doing that, like if we were like, well, I love my castor oil and I love castor oil, but not for my face, by the way. If we kept doing that, like, would we age?

Would—

I don't want to say age faster because that's maybe a weird thing, but like if somebody is doing different protocol versus just that, is there a difference in how their skin is going to age?

And I don't think their skin is going to age as well. You know, I like, I have a friend in particular that I'm thinking about who is very much into sort of this like natural, very simple, skincare line. And when I look at pictures of the two of us, like, I do think that my skin looks better than hers does. And, you know, again, we sort of talked about this in the beginning and how we age is very different to each of us. And I'm not here to cast judgment on that. But if you are actually like trying to actively slow down how your skin is aging and you're just using these like castor oil or, you know, sort of homemade natural things, it's just not going to be strong enough to do what you're hoping to have it do. Right.

Like, it might work in your 20s or 30s, but eventually it's going to— it's going to catch up. Also, is there ever like— is it ever too late to like work on your skin and your skincare?

I don't think so. Just like it's never too late to work on your, you know, muscle health. But when you start later, it's just harder.

Yeah.

With everything, right? Like if you start weight training in your 70s, you're just not going to see the results that you're going to see in your 20s. And that's going to be the same with your skin. But it's absolutely never too late.

What about the opposite end of the spectrum? So people that do like the intense stuff, like they're in these hardcore— I know you've seen them in the dermatology offices, like these hardcore prescriptions with like the heavy amounts of retin-A and hydroquinone. Tretinoin or whatever this stuff is. When they're just doing those protocols, what do you see there that can go wrong or that we need to be warned around?

Yeah, I mean, those hopefully people are doing under the guidance of a dermatologist, but those really harsh things can just irritate, make the skin really sensitive, you know, and, you know, I've definitely seen this both with myself and other friends who will just like really smear on like a prescription strength tretinoin and then the next day like their skin is flaking off. It's— so again, when you're working under the guidance of a dermatologist, hopefully those things are not going to happen, but those things can be really powerful and strong and almost like too strong. They can damage the skin barrier. So there's finding this, you know, and that's why I do think some dermatologists are also using— Yeah, much gentler approaches to skin aging that they can balance those harsher things.

It's so funny being in my 50s because, I mean, I can see like such a difference. I mean, amongst all my friends on like their approach, like I've got the all-natural camp, right? And they— that's great. They're all natural. But I do think their skin looks older, for lack of a better word. And then, I've got the ones that have really— they jumped on the retinoids and all the hardcore stuff. I don't want to name the brands, but the dermatology-heavy ones. And they almost— it changes, one, the color of their skin. A lot of them, it gets this bluish tint. I think that's from hydroquinone. Am I saying that right? And then, or it thins their skin. So, you get this almost veiny, almost translucent skin. I think that's from using too much of that. Have you seen that with people?

Yeah, I haven't noticed that, but I do have a friend in particular also who has done a lot of lasers and like, she's like, I feel like she's like constantly like, yeah, you know, there's some of these like medispas too now have these like subscriptions where like you can go in every month and have a laser. And I'm like, your skin almost looks like, I don't know, like not— it just doesn't look healthy to me either.

Like it just is like, I think it's thin. It's like a translucent something that happens.

It's thin. It's just— yeah, I agree. It just doesn't look— Yeah. It doesn't have that sort of like natural sort of glow and health look to it. Okay.

So speaking of the natural, because like I'm a huge fan of— I know you are too, like unprocessed natural foods. Let's get like the hydration, let's do good things. I know people are really into these apps of like scanning what's clean, what's not. What are your thoughts on that? Like, is there a medium ground? Are there some things that you'd be like, I would absolutely never touch these ingredients? Like, what do you look for and what does Timeline consider with their line? Around natural.

So absolutely there are ingredients you don't want in your skincare. And our— so our approach, just as it is with the supplements, like powerful actives, nothing else, right?

Okay.

So things specifically like fragrances, dyes, like we don't use any of that. So that's basically the app. Yuka app might be an app that your audience is used to or has heard of. It's almost like— I think in the US people tend to use like Skin Deep, the environmental work. This is a— I think it's a little bit more popular in Europe, which is We're a Swiss-based company. So we have, I want to say, like a 91 or 93 EUCA score.

Oh, that's great. Okay.

So again, super powerful actives, but like I'm air quoting clean because I think that means something different to everybody. Like some people think clean means like coconut oil. Sure. But nothing that has been linked to any sort of like toxicity or endocrine disruption or the things that you don't want in a skincare line. So while they might be lab-made ingredients, like I talked a little bit about, you know, vitamin C, like your vitamin C supplement is not a squeezed lemon, right? It's lab-made vitamin C. So they're lab-made ingredients, but they are clean and gentle and effective and not toxic.

Okay. That's good to know. I, you know, I bought a— I was at the makeup store recently buying like an eyeliner or something. And the person's like, have you tried our new primer? It's amazing. And like, she put the primer on my hand. I'm like, that is amazing. And I'm like the sucker coming when I walk into stores and they, especially if they like, have you ever, you know, you sit down and they like start massaging your face with the makeup. Next thing you know, you're buying like 100 things. Okay, so she was doing that with my hand with this primer, and I'm like, oh, that does feel silky. That's amazing. So I bought it. But the next day when I was using it, I didn't even read the ingredients because I'm a sucker, but I put it all over my face. I'm like, what is that smell? And it has like a strong fragrance. I'm like, dagnabbit, because that's the worst. We do not want fragrance in any of our skincare.

Agreed. Agreed. And I'm sort of the same way. Like when I try something new and like, you know, you get like, you buy our line, it gives you like a little sample. I'm always like so excited. I'm like, oh, I get to try the little sample. And like you put it on and it's fragranced. I'm like, oh, wash this off. I cannot stand it. Yeah.

And I'm like, who wants fragrance on their face? Seriously, I don't understand that.

I don't understand why either. But yeah.

So one thing I do love about your line is there's no scent. It's just, it's just neutral. So that's amazing.

And the color of all of our products are like this, like sort of buttery yellow color. It's actually the natural color of the Urolithin A. Like, I think people think it's red because like our gummies are red and our soft gels are red, but it's actually this like beautiful buttery yellow color. So no dyes either.

So I have this thought, and it's the same thing you just mentioned earlier about it's never too late to work out or to eat healthy or to change it around. I think that a lot of women think it's too late to address their skin. Like, it's— for some reason we don't think that with our body, but we think with our skin. It's like, oh, it's not too late to grow back hair, figure that out. It's not too late to eat better or to lift weights. But why do we have this story about it's too late to fix our skin?

I don't know. I think there's just You know, there's just, I think, a lot tied into skin in terms of like aesthetics and how we look. And I think that's also having like a realistic expectation, right? Like it's never too late to work on your skin, but also realizing that like if you're starting late and you're comparing yourself to somebody who maybe like has done quality skin their whole life or to somebody, your friend who just went and got a facelift, right? Like a topical is only going to get you so far. It will certainly move the needle. It will bring you somewhere. But it's also kind of about being realistic. And if you're sort of like, well, I want to look like her and I can't with just this, so I'm not even going to bother.

But makes sense.

Yeah, I think it's never— it's never too late. And it's, it's helping the health of your skin, even if like, you know, you're seeing improvements, but they're not as like robust as you were hoping. Like, it's still helping the health of your skin, which is really—

so y'all, full transparency, like, I'm— I am sponsored by Timeline. I was using MitoPure well before they ever worked with me as a sponsor, where they've sponsored my show and some things there. But the skincare line, normally when I'm working with a brand I was working with Mitopure, their gummies. It doesn't automatically mean I'm going to promote skincare line by any means. But when they asked me if I want to try it, the reason I'm so open-minded to it is because I love the science behind urolithin A. There's actual legit science behind urolithin A. You can look it up. It's like that is well documented. You can't ignore it. So I'm thinking if that works so well in our bodies, it has to work in our skin. So I'm super excited to you know, to learn more about this today with Jennifer. Yeah, so I am going to be really transparent here that I feel I become torn when it comes to skin, where I can't say I'm like 100% natural girl, not, not by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, heck, I color my hair. I was public about having my upper eye bleph. Like, I share those things. But when it comes to like food and supplements, I'm a pretty clean girl. Like, I, I look at what's the more natural. With skin, this has been a really interesting fine line with me, no pun intended, fine line, where I I want to do things clean, healthy, uh, the right way, but I also really want to make sure I'm liking the appearance. And call it vain if you want, but brown spots, wrinkles, sagging, all of that, it does bother me. And I know you and I were chatting before we hit record about— you said, I know we shouldn't care, but we do. I think it's, it's a female thing for most of us.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I know that we shouldn't care because, right, how we present to the world is important, and how we feel about ourselves and our self-esteem. Like, it's definitely not that we shouldn't care. What I'm struggling— my own personal journey with skin as I've like turned 50 is this like, why do I care so much? Like, as long as my skin is healthy and glowy and like just as good, like, why does like the fine lines and wrinkles— like, why am I thinking about like all these things that I like need to be more aggressive than just good quality skincare? I think everybody— because skincare is healthcare for sure. Yeah, you know. And but yeah, like when we start talking about more aggressive things, totally, you know, and totally contemplating them myself too. And it's like sometimes just have this little internal like Why? Why would I contemplate that?

I don't think I've ever shared anything aesthetic. Somebody will always chime in like, why do you care? I'm like, because I just, I do. I don't know why I do. I just do.

Judge women who like don't want to do anything and women who want to be very aggressive. I think that's like the beauty of the world we live in, but it's my own internal conversation.

So I'm curious because when I look at different things, I wanted to get your take sort of on what's been missing from skincare because you're, you're an expert here. Like, where— what do you see that you're like, this has just completely been missing out of the conversation?

Well, there's a couple of things. I think that, you know, the staples that are in— probably you mentioned them in the intro, right? Like retinol and vitamin C tend to be the staple treatments or, you know, tools that we've had in our toolkit. And I don't think that they're, they're bad. I think there's great evidence on them. There's a reason why those tend to be sort of the first line things that we do. But I think what's missing very often is that there is a lot of new technology that is out there and that works differently, either by itself or potentially in conjunction with other sort of more traditional topicals. And so I think that's a big thing that just we're still kind of reaching for, like maybe different formulations of Retin-A or tretinoin or retinol, or we're, you know, and we're not embracing some of these new technologies because we just either don't know why or what they do or we've never heard of them or we're just sort of like in our routine.

I feel like it's like the traffic light. Analogy. I don't know if you've ever heard of this, but I was reading recently about traffic lights and how it's— the idea of a traffic light has not changed in decades. It's just that whenever whoever invented traffic light system, it's never been updated, it's never changed, and then it's just getting worse and worse at intersections, and we just keep building more traffic lights. Like, nobody's reinventing the technology.

That's a perfect— I've never heard that, but that's exactly it. We're not, you know, but, but in this case, like, we have reinvented technology, and so there's an opportunity to embrace some of these newer things that also not not only do they work differently and in some cases better, but they also don't come with some of those, like, unwanted side effects. Like, specifically calling out, like, retinols have great efficacy, but a lot of women can't tolerate them. And especially for those of us on this midlife journey, our skin is changing. Like, it's, you know, almost this, like, I've heard it called this sort of, like, reverse puberty, which I think oversimplifies it. But, like, you know, when we went through puberty, we were trying to refigure out, like, I have acne, I have all this weird stuff happening. We go through menopause and all of a sudden it's like, my skin is dry, it's more sensitive. Like the wrinkles, all of that. And so this is a time in life where I think it's really great to reflect and think about how can we level up our skincare and try something new, integrate something new that's just working on different biological pathways. Because, you know, I know we've talked about this, like when I was on your podcast recently, like we understand a lot more around like the biology of what's driving aging, right? What's driving aging in our muscles and in our brain, right? Like mitochondrial decline being one of those. But those are the same things that are driving aging in our skin. And So I, you know, personally, I'm looking for technologies that target those hallmarks of aging, those cellular, you know, the cellular decline that's happening.

Yeah. Help me understand that because I know we've talked about mitochondria before, but for those that didn't listen to that original episode or I want to go a little deeper, can you just give us like a high level of what that means and maybe where that differs or maybe it doesn't with internal versus what we see on our skin?

So the mitochondria, as just a reminder, are— they're sort of lovingly called the powerhouse of the cell. And I think that's a little bit actually of a misnomer. Misnomer because they— like, a better name might even be the CEO of the cell. So powerhouse because they're generating the energy that your cells need. So whether it is a brain cell, a skin cell, or a muscle cell, they need energy to do their jobs. But the mitochondria actually do other things. They're, you know, cell communicators, and they just do a lot of other things inside the cell as well. And so with age, they tend to decline, and that decline is linked to aging, and it just shows up in different tissues like in your skin, it might show up as, you know, accelerated wrinkles, hyperpigmentation, thinness of the skin. In your muscles, it shows up as weakness. In the brain, it shows up as, you know, that cognitive decline that happens as we age. So it's the same biology that's happening. It's just displaying itself in a different way.

So when you look at most women that are pretty educated, they're— most women are educated. Like they, they know what they need to do to eat right. They know to strength train. They know about protein. Like we can't flip through anything without hearing about getting in more protein. Why do you think, like, I'm just curious, what, what your opinion is on why skincare has just not kept up with this, because I don't— there's not been a conversation around skincare. I really don't. There's just about— there's a marketing conversation around it, but not a conversation around the health of it.

Yeah, I do think it's changing a little bit because I think that like the conversation in especially midlife women around like estradiol replacement, and I've seen lots of people talking about using like topical estrogen for the skin as well. But I think it's just the world that we live in. Like we view skin much more as just like an aesthetic, you know, function, right? And not that it's actually like your first line of defense from the entire environment. And so I'm not entirely sure why The Leap hasn't gone there, because maybe just like between makeup and like lower quality skin products out there, it just has seemed to fit more in the cosmetic world than in the health world. But like, we have a whole type of medical doctor, like a dermatologist, that like their whole job is skin. And it's not just like how you look, right? It's like, yeah, you know, the health of your skin.

What's your opinion on sort of the toxic or not toxic when we, when we talk about skincare?

So, yeah. So I think there's a couple of things. I think that when we use the word natural in skin, we tend to associate it with like not as good outcomes. But I think we also oversimplify it, right? Like, so there are ingredients like that we're going to talk about, right? Like Mitopure is a natural molecule. It's something that exists in nature. And so, but it's, it's like not toxic, like, right? Like just because it's synthetically produced, it's not toxic. So I I think there's just this disconnect also in how we talk about actives in the skin. And I don't think for me, for me personally, if somebody is really looking for good quality science, smearing coconut oil on your face is probably not going to give you the same benefits as using a formula that has clean ingredients. When I say clean ingredients, things that are not meant to irritate, that are not known to be endocrine disruptors. But I wouldn't call them natural skincare.

Sure.

Yeah. And I think—

And I don't have the answer to that yet. That's why I ask. And I've definitely interviewed many different people on just products and trying to understand, and there's so many different takes. But what I will say is when I've tried to go fully natural, like, oh, I'm just going to, like you said, coconut oil or whatever, that has backfired on me. Now, there are some natural brands I feel like when they combine ingredients and they've done a lot of research. The plant-based stuff or whatever it is, those— there's definitely some merit to that. But I think just saying like, I'm going to do nothing but castor oil, or I'm going to do nothing but coconut, like that does not work.

I mean, yeah. And those sort of like natural formulations, it's sort of the same thing as like when people are like, I'm only natural with food, but like I take supplements. Like supplements are derived from nature, but like the vitamin C that you're taking, someone didn't just like squeeze a lemon and put it in a capsule, right? Yeah. And so that's the same way that I think of skincare, right? Like what's probably happening in some of those like really well-formulated, again, air quoting, natural is like they're using herbal extracts and, you know, powerful plant compounds in a formulation that makes it powerful so that it actually does something. So they're derived from nature, but it's not just like putting, smushing avocado on your face and like calling it a face mask.

I saw a video on Instagram not too long ago, and this girl was— she was doing her natural makeup routine, and I thought she was being funny, but maybe she was being serious. I don't know. But she had like a bowl of fruit, so she had like a raspberry or whatever, and she smushed the raspberry and she put it on her lips and her blush. And I was like, I couldn't tell. I'm like, is she kidding? Is she serious? I don't know what's happening here.

Yeah. And I don't know, like, how long it might look great, like, for 5 minutes, but then that's not gonna last. The other thing about skin that I think it's important to know is that, you know, especially if you're doing like a DIY type of skincare at home is that a lot of nutrients won't penetrate the skin unless it's formulated in a certain way. So you're just gonna have a very different, like, again, back to the lemon, like if you just squeeze lemon juice on your face versus you use a properly formulated vitamin C serum that's meant to go inside those skin cells and to like activate the collagen process and to act as an antioxidant. So that's another really important thing to know about skincare formulation is that that, you know, sometimes these things are just not going to penetrate those layers where you want it to work.

Hey there, if you're finding value in this episode of Midlife Conversations, I would really appreciate it if you would hit that like button and subscribe. And when that little bell pops up, you want to hit that, that way you are notified of all new episodes so you don't miss a beat. Also, you subscribing and liking helps others find this content, and this allows me to keep growing, keep getting amazing new guests for you, and to keep sharing. Walk us through what actually happens to our skin cells in our 30s, 40s, and 50s. Like, why does it and when does it specifically start to change?

So there's a couple of things that are driving skin aging. The first thing is these sort of external drivers of skin aging. The biggest one is being in the sun. So sun damage is really driving that inflammation. It's damaging DNA, it's damaging that collagen. So that's one thing. But then even outside—

before you skip the sun thing, hold on. I want to— I want to pause here for a second because this is actually controversial lately, which is wild. So I definitely over-sun exposed in my early— like, I mean, I laid out with baby oil and I went to tanning beds like daily. I remember thinking I had tannerexia like in my late teens, early 20s. And basal cell carcinoma is what stopped me because I got that in my early 20s. I was like, nope. And I have so many brown spots on my skin that will not— and no lasers are not taking them off. I've tried them all. For whatever reason, it's— I've damaged it. But there's actually like this controversy now where— but sun is good. So I want to get your opinion on that too, like, because I do think Sunlight is good. I do think we— I like circadian rhythm. I do think we need vitamin D. Where do we kind of help us with that before I keep going on that conversation? I don't want to skip that.

It's very much, in my opinion, and from what I've read, this sort of Goldilocks place of sun exposure, because you are absolutely right. We do need the sun to hit our eyes for circadian rhythm. Our skin makes vitamin D. Let's not forget about how good it just feels like psychologically. Dopamine too.

Just the dopamine.

Yeah. So we absolutely— it is not good for us to be like inside all day and not getting sun exposure. But where the real driver of aging and that risk for skin cancer is happening is this overexposure to UV light. Right. Like, so if you are spending— if you're somebody who exercises a lot outside or you just spend all of your summer outside and you're constantly getting like 8 hours of really harsh UV light to your skin, that's where the problem starts to come. So that's where you want to step back. Step in and use some, you know, protective, whether it's clothing, whether it's sunblock, hats, all of that. So yeah, it's this finding this balance. Like, I tend to go out for like a morning walk with my dog. I don't put sunblock on and like I just get the sun. But if I'm outside in midday, um, or if I'm playing a sport outside or I'm on the beach, like I am covered. So that's really a long amount of time outside, then that's where I want to bring my sunblock in and want to bring my exposure down.

Okay, so, so the first thing, so sun damage. So sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there, but I wanted to cover that. So, and then what else is helping creating this aging problem of our skin?

Yeah. And then we're having these internal things that happen, as I mentioned already, like mitochondrial decline is happening. So the cells, your skin requires so much energy to, first of all, it's constantly turning over, it's building collagen, it's protecting you from sun damage and just all the environmental toxins that are out there. And that requires tons of energy. So when the mitochondria start declining, that's going to be a problem. Your skin's just not not going to respond the way that it did when it was more youthful. The other thing that's a little bit more specific for women as well, as we start to go through midlife, we start to lose estrogen at a pretty rapid, rapid speed. And estrogen plays a huge role in collagen. It plays a huge role in barrier function. And so, we're sort of having this accelerated, it feels like, aging that's happening as we go through midlife. I feel like personally, I woke up one day and was just like, my face looks like a different person's face. I just don't know.

Yeah.

And so we've got several things that are happening just biologically inside our body that are driving this change in our skin.

When you look at somebody or somebody listening, if you know you have it on yourself and you see the fine lines or like that actual dullness or sagging, what do you think that cell is actually telling us?

It's telling me that it's tired, it's exhausted, it's been overworked, that it needs a little TLC, you know. And again, what TLC is, is might be different from some for me and you and somebody listening, but that is just— your cells are aging. They're tired. Just like you physically feel tired as you get older, like, your skin cells feel that too and show it to you.

And I feel like as we start losing our estrogen, so, which is— you can't avoid that as you age. Like, menopause is going to happen no matter what. I know that that supports mitochondrial function as well. So, just that estrogen decline is going to, I assume, hit that hard too.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Your mitochondria have estrogen receptors. So if you don't have as much estrogen floating through your system, mitochondrial dysfunction or mitochondrial decline is going to happen as well. And then interestingly, like sort of vice versa. So your mitochondria actually play a role in estrogen metabolism. So like if they're declining— so this is just a really interesting area of research. I think most of the research I've read is still in like animal models. Okay. But there clearly seems to be this link between estrogen and mitochondrial function.

So since there's a— we know that mitochondrial dysfunction is also going to help, you know, obviously increase aging skin because just like we know that's going to affect our muscles and our insides, would changing what we eat or take from the inside out change this, or does it have to be a focus on topical? Both. Both.

I, you know, so probably more obvious than, than skin aging, right? Like, we know for sure there's a link between skin conditions and like gut health and how you eat and how you nourish yourself. Right. And so there's no doubt that how you eat is also going to play a role in how your skin ages. Same thing, actually. There's been some really interesting studies on like exercise and skin aging, right? Exercise helps your skin age better. So diet absolutely plays a role. But in my opinion, depending on like what you're really looking for in terms of skin health, you need both. You need an outside approach and an inside approach, and one will not counterbalance the other unless like you're just going straight to the plastic surgery and— right, that's going to just correct anything.

But it's interesting you said that about exercise though, because I feel like there can be a different extreme the other way. So like when I see somebody that's like super, super lean and muscular, but very lean, I feel like they look like they've aged more.

Probably what's happening there is the, is the low fat body fat percentage, right? Which I think we're seeing all over the place right now with the use of GLP-1s.

For sure.

So underneath your skin there is adipose tissue and And that also, as we get older, we start to lose that adipose tissue, which is why, especially like under the eyes, you start to look a little bit more hollow. So I think that people who are super, super fit and have really like a low body weight percentage, especially like for women, they're going to start to look a little bit more hollowed. I think also a lot of times, especially if it's somebody who is an athlete that is outside all the time and they're constantly sweating off any sun exposure, like, you know, I lived in Colorado for a while where everybody was just like outside like 24/7. And, you know, people who were super fit, like, their skin to me also looked not as healthy because I think they just had this extended sun exposure that's happening. And, well, exercise certainly— like, exercise is also one of those, like, Goldilocks things, right? Like, you can over-exercise and your body does get into a stressed state, and your mitochondria are sort of like, they're stressed as well. And so this, you know, you can do too much, and that could potentially imagine that that's showing up in your skin as well.

Now, I know you're not a doctor or a dermatologist or a plastic surgeon, so I want to ask for your opinion here. Do you think that the right skincare can be as effective as doing things like a laser or more like an in-office procedure? Or do you think— what, just— I'm curious your opinion there.

Yeah, I truthfully, I think that skincare has come a long way and it is super powerful, but I don't think it it's going to completely, like, replace, like, what those types of things can do. Like, I see all the time on social media, like— I keep wishing. I keep wishing.

But I'm like, that's why I'm asking.

You didn't— yeah, that didn't happen. But what I will also say is that I think that people who do take really good care of their skin and use really, like, A, have a good diet, like, are taking care of their health in general, but then are using high-quality topicals, they might not need as aggressive massive treatments or need them at all. But I think if your skin is pretty damaged and you start using a product, you'll see definitely significant improvements. But I don't know that you're gonna see like, okay, what, like a massive laser?

Well, thanks for saying that because I wanted to establish that. That's an important thing to establish because that's what I see too. And I haven't— I've yet to have somebody— well, that's not true. I've had people definitely say that their stuff does. But I like that honest answer that really like an in-office procedure is going to always get those faster results. But I think the difference you can delay when you do the right skincare and you can also probably make results of whatever you do last longer, I would imagine.

Yes, that was exactly— I mean, I think that's very often when you have some of these in-office procedures, like usually the doctor or the esthetician or whoever it is will pair it with some sort of very powerful active that you take home because that's how you're going to get more bang for your buck. If you're spending so much money, you know, like there's very little in this world that is a quick fix. And we live in an Amazon Prime world where like you expect things tomorrow and lasers and resurfacing treatments are going to give you great bang for your buck, but like they're not going to last forever if you aren't doing the foundational work that you need to do. And that's where I think really good quality skincare. And if you have like, you know, you can find products, I think like the Timeline Topicals, like they're super powerful and they will certainly like, you will notice improvements in your skin, but I'm not sure we're going to see the same improvement that you would see with like—

Makes sense. Getting a laser.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I'm curious about the origin story. So how did this 18 years of Swiss longevity research become kind of like a topical skincare line? Like, where did that come from?

So the company was founded just with this, like, mission of bringing again sort of natural molecules sort of into this, like, biotech approach where we are applying the same rigor of science that you would expect out of a pharmaceutical. And so we landed upon this nutrient, Urolithin A, which targets specifically that mitochondrial dysfunction. It helps your mitochondria to recycle. Natalie Jill. And we went on this journey with examining it for muscle health, which is what we had talked about in our previous conversation. And the way it's been told to me is that so many people started saying like, "Hey, my skin looks better." And there was this sort of aha moment of—

From taking, from eating the—

From taking the oral supplement. Yep, exactly. And there was, you know, like, as I mentioned, like the skin requires so much energy from the mitochondria. It was just like, "Oh gosh, I wonder if we like—" apply it topically and will your skin cells absorb it and what will happen? And that's where the journey came to the topicals. And one of the things that we're really passionate about, which we've sort of touched upon, is like skin health is full body health. Skincare is healthcare. And so now we're one of the very unique brands where we have this inside-out approach where people want to like look as good as they feel. People recognize that that skin needs this sort of extra TLC. But then you also have an oral, which is giving sort of this more systemic type of benefit as well, where you can get that benefit into your muscles, into your immune cells, into the rest of your mitochondria. Okay.

So walk us through like why— how does Mitopure actually do that in the skin? Like, and how is it different from anything else that we see in skincare currently?

So what's unique to Mitopure, and again, this is like whether we're talking about the muscle cell or whether we're talking about this, how the mechanism of action is very similar. So as our mitochondria become dysfunctional, our body, like our bodies are so amazing to me, right? Like our bodies know mitochondria critical for survival. They decline. They have a process to recycle them. That's called mitophagy. And unfortunately though, as we get older, not only is the mitochondria starting to decline, but that recycling process is also starting to decline. And that's the secret to how urolithin A or Mitopure works. And that's pretty unique to Mitopure. So there's no other molecule that I'm aware of that's been proven in humans to trigger that recycling process. So whether you're taking it orally and it's going to the muscles, or whether you're applying it topically and it's going to the skin, it's regenerating those mitochondria so that cell can work the way that it used to, in a better, sort of more energetic state.

Okay. So I want to make sure, like, I really understand this. So when you say that recycling process, what do you mean by that?

So the mitochondria, I think of them If we think of it like energy factories, right? Like, that's how they're— that's sort of one of their, their jobs. But like any factory, it starts to kind of decline as it gets used, right? Like, they don't last forever. And so this recycling process is almost like the demolition team that comes in and says, I'm gonna break down this energy factory, and oh, like, this conveyor belt still works, and like, this still works, we're gonna keep that, and then we're gonna get rid of this that doesn't work, and we're gonna build new ones. So that sort of was what hap— is what's happening. It's like the demolition truck coming in, getting rid of the junk that doesn't work anymore, and giving you this new, healthy, highly functioning factory. So how is that different from other things?

Like, so if you, for example, I'm thinking of, I'm not gonna say it right, but niacinamide or niacinamide. Yeah. Or retinol, how that sort of breaks down. Yeah.

So how is that different? So those are not targeting mitophagy or targeting specifically the mitochondria. Okay. So So niacinamide, which actually happens to be in one of our, in several of our products, all of them, that is helping the cell. It's helping, you know, it's a B vitamin derivative that helps with energy metabolism. So like, think of that if you go back to that analogy of the factory, like maybe it's a worker on the factory, right? But if factory's broken, I don't care how good your worker is. Vitamin C is an antioxidant. It's protecting that factory. But no matter how much you come in and you protect and you clean that factory, it is still going to break down., right? That's just, that's just what happens. So that is the unique piece of urolithin A, and that's why I think it makes everything else work better. Because when you have a new factory, those workers on the factory are better. Like, just everything is better.

And the research on this, I know you mentioned that there's a ton of research on this. Like, how real is all that?

So, 18 years of research. A lot of it, as I said, sort of started in the muscle place, but now we actually have more research on on the skin side than we do on even the oral. Really? We have, I want to say, 12 clinical trials because every single one of our products went through a clinical trial. Okay. And then, we have a clinical trial that's sort of on the base molecule. So, we know from the base molecule studies that we're seeing these significant improvements in mitochondrial turnover. So, the other thing—

What did you see specifically? Like, tell us how that worked or how that was and what you see specifically.

Yeah. So we look at their, like, gene markers of mitochondrial function, right? There's several genes that are signaling, like, the mitochondria are working correctly, that they're turning over. And so we see all of that upregulated when we compare it to placebo. So we see that in the skin cells. We also can look at genes that are regulating collagen assembly and organization, right? As we get older, those genes kind of, like, get dampened and turned down. And what we see with the topical Urolithin A Urolithin A is that those genes are upregulated as well. And so that means that we're going to have the collagen assembly process is going to be, you know, again, sort of like we would have in a more youthful state. And those are all compared to like— so I would call it like a placebo. So what we do is put like half the face, like a fake cream, just a cream, a base cream, and the other half of the face gets the cream plus the Urolithin A. So we can kind of do a comparison there. We also look at— we do skin biopsies. We don't do those on the face. Because nobody would want to do that, but we will do a little skin biopsy. It's called a punch biopsy of the forearm where we can then look and figure out what's happening to these genes, right, that I just told you about that we know. Um, and then we can also take— it's actually really cool, a little Frankenstein-y but very cool— there are these like 3D skin models where we can actually in the lab grow skin that is basically like human skin, but it didn't come off of someone. And that's where you can really get in and look at like, you know, some of these like inflammatory markers that we start to see with skin or skin aging. And cell senescence, that's also this sort of like trendy buzzword in the longevity space, but that is this sort of like idea of zombie cells. Like certain cells don't quite die. And so again, in those skin models, we see improvements there in cell senescence as well. So there's a lot of different ways that we are studying how it's working in the skin. And then ultimately, which I think is probably the most important, is, you know, it's great that, like, we can say in the cells it's working better, but what we really want to know is that that translates into something that I'm absolutely going to see in the mirror when I go into the mirror and look in the mirror. And so what we see is after just 2 weeks of using the topical Mitopure is visibly noticeable differences in, in skin aging and fine lines and wrinkles. And then when we take that study out to 8 weeks and we measure it with like technology, that difference becomes statistically significant.

Wow. So tell me, like when you say that you see a difference, is it that you see lines disappear or you see brown spots or what do you like physically see?

Yeah. So we, we didn't actually test brown spots and hyperpigmentation. That's something we are going to look into, although I've heard a lot about that. What we looked at instead was wrinkle depth and wrinkle volume. Okay. And so, and specifically on crow's feet feet. So there's technology that can actually like measure how the— those wrinkles. And so that's where we start to see the improvements there. The other thing that we can measure is like transdermal water loss. And so hydration that's happening in this skin, you see improvements there as well. And then one of the other things that we see, which I think is also very unique to the topical Mitopure, is this sort of protection against photodamage. And we've talked sort of a little bit about sunblock and sunscreen. Like, I would never call this a sunblock or something that you would use in place of that. But after our skin gets exposed to UV light, there is all of this sort of like inflammation and redness. We call it erythema. And what we found there is, compared to a placebo, is after skin is, is exposed to this damaging light, that all of that like redness and erythema is resolved much more quickly. So it's really targeting both like that biology, the internal drivers of aging, but then the external main driver as well.

So I'm sure you had access to all this before you guys were even selling it, I'm assuming.— did you— what did you notice on yourself personally?

So the first thing, I mean, so as I said, like, in order to see results, it's going to take a little bit of time, like, for the MitoPure to really work. But immediately you notice, though, the formulations of these products, like, my skin felt like day one, like dewy, like just the silkiness of the products and just like the hydration that happens from the formulation is like immediate. They feel very luxurious. But then And certainly the more that I use the products and I am a bit of a skincare junkie, so I use a lot of different products. And what I've found is, you know, sometimes I just feel like my skin sort of like gets sensitized to things. Like I just like, I'm like, I don't know if it's working anymore. And I just like spent like $200 on this serum and like, do I really want to buy this again? Right? I don't feel that way with these products. Like I continue to use them because I feel like my skin continues to look better and I get complimented on my skin all the time that just looks glowy and hydrated. And I have definitely noticed that, especially like on my neck and like my crow's feet where I do really am noticing like some fine lines and wrinkles and a little bit more like, you know, older looking skin. I definitely have noticed that that seems diminished on me as well. And I have my mom who is, she was probably 70, she's in her late 70s now. So she was probably in like her mid-70s when I also gave her some of the products and her skin looks amazing too. Like, and so the fact that like like someone, a woman in her 70s can have skin. Like, I really wish I had taken before and after pictures of her because her skin is just incredible as well.

I saw a video and that's what got me super intrigued on this. It was a girl, she had done— now she was younger, so she was definitely not in her 50s, but she showed— she did this test where she was doing, putting the exfoliant, one of your products, on one side of her skin and not the other. Do you know, did you see this video? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes. Okay. And it's a definite difference. She said she had done it for 2 weeks and she shared that challenge. And then that made me want to try it. So I'm not doing it on 2 sides of the face, but I did take pictures. And by the time this airs, I'm hoping to have some results that I can share. But I've been using it. I just started 3 days before recording this. So I don't— this is going to air later, but 3 days before recording this, I started doing it. So I'm just curious to see if there's a difference, but I was definitely impressed with her results.

Yeah, no, I've seen that as well. And, you know, I don't work closely with our influencers, but I think like she might have just like decided to do that on her own. Like, I think we gifted it to her and like she was like, I'm going to play around with this. And she was so wowed by that that that has kind of become a little bit of a viral sensation for us. Yeah. And the beauty of that is that, you know, again, I think what's happening is that like this Mitopure is making everything else work. Work better because we have our entire skin line has Mitopure throughout it. So every single one of our skincare products has the Mitopure as like the hero ingredient, but then it is paired with other actives so that you almost do get this like 1 1 3 approach, right? So things that are targeting skin aging or just cellular health. Yeah. And so especially with that exfoliant, I think the beauty there is that so it's formulated with chemical exfoliants. It's not a harsh, very gentle exfoliant. But even that for some people can be a little like stingy or it can feel a little bit dry. And when you pair it with this sort of like, you know, the Mitopure, which just has this like almost like anti-inflammatory effect and like this just beautiful, luxurious feel, it sort of counterbalances that harshness that's happening with some of those— with those exfoliants. So I pulled these stats off the clinical information.

So tell me if I have these right, but it was 23% improvement in hydration over 8 weeks. Weeks. 80% reported more youthful-looking skin. That was during the trial. 77% reported a visible tightening effect. Because I don't know, women, are you like me where you go in the mirror and you like tighten it up with your hand? And then 90% felt their skin was more protected. I don't know what that meant. But maybe that's that barrier you're talking about, how you feel that it's more protected.

Yeah, it feels more protected. And I think it's just, you know, you feel like your skin feels like healthier and just feels like it has more hydration and like that you're, you know, you're not as sensitive to— like, I think we've all had an experience where you use a product and then like your skin just feels like a little stingy or sensitive.

Okay, help— can you walk through the line just so if people are looking at it and they want— like, do you need all of it? What do you have? Like sort of a hero thing, or like, just as I would do, if anything, just try this? Like, what does each thing do?

Yeah, so we have curated this beautiful entire line, and because because the products are sort of formulated slightly differently, they can serve different purposes. So you could potentially use the entire line. Okay. Or if you like have skincare products that you love and you're not ready to break up with them, then you could strategically add in these products where it makes sense. So I'll start kind of through the whole line and then I'll throw in my little like personal, like what I, what I love. So we have a cleanser. Okay. This beautiful— like, it comes out as a cream and it is like just very gently foams as you put it on. So it's like strong enough to get makeup off, but gentle enough that it is not like stripping the skin, especially for midlife women who like this is— I like love this cleanser because it's just, it's not drying and it's not harsh, but it is strong enough to get like, especially like I do wear sunblock during the day, it's strong enough to get all of that off. And then the next step would be the exfoliator that we just talked about. This exfoliator depends on people's skin type, how often they use it. Like some people can use it nightly, every night. Some people do have a little bit more sensitive skin and might want to use it like 2 to 3 times a week.

I've been using it twice a day. Is that too much? Yeah, no, absolutely.

Exfoliate. No, most exfoliators, you—

it's like you put it on and wash it off. But this one you just put on.

You leave it on. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And because it's not harsh and physical where you're actually like, yeah, a break, like top layer, you absolutely can use it that way. Okay. The next that we have, which is probably our— so, so that exfoliator is like our sleeper hit, which I don't know if anyone thought that was going to like— I think we all like thought that's why I'm doing—

I started as soon as I saw that. I'm like, well, I'm going to do this twice a day.

I'm going to see such a great place to like— it's a wonderful entry point because not everybody has an exfoliator that they're using or that they love. And then the serum is probably our bestseller because I think it's also a really nice, like, entry point if you were already, like, used to, like, using different serums and layering them together. And it plays nice with other things. So, like, if you do have a vitamin C serum that you love and, you know, maybe like a peptide serum, but this does actually have peptides in there, so it doesn't— you say peptides.

What kind of peptides does it have in it?

Oh, I would have to double check. Okay. Exactly.

But I'm assuming you don't mean like the copper peptide?

No. Okay. No, no. Got it. Yeah. So, yeah, so that's the serum. Plays nice with others. You can kind of layer it in day and night also with whatever else might be in your skin regimen. And then my personal favorite product is the Dewy Cream. Okay.

So I like how that feels for sure.

I started slathering that on. So we have two different thicknesses of cream. One is our Dewy Cream. One is the Barrier Cream. The Dewy Cream to me feels a little bit more like a traditional day cream, like it's a little bit lighter and fluid. Fluidy and milky. I love it because it just— I don't really wear makeup. I may wear like a tinted sunscreen, like, and a very sort of like a light, light, light tint. And it just sits so nicely under my makeup and it just gives my skin this like instant glow and hydration. So that is my personal favorite. And then there's a heavier, thicker barrier cream, which is really great to use. I live in like the Northeast, so like I like that like on cold winter nights when I kind of It almost feels like a— it's a thick cream. So like you could kind of even— it almost feels like a face mask, you know, like a moisturizing mask. Like I'll put that on at night when my skin is really dry and use that as like a night cream. And then we have our eye cream, which is also beautifully formulated and that is just designed specifically. So I think sometimes women don't realize, like, I think there's this assumption like, I don't need a special eye cream. I can just use like my cream everywhere. But the eye is very sensitive and it has a few unique needs because the skin is so thin there. And also other face creams might not be tested to like be close to the eye. And so this was ophthalmology tested. And so you can feel comfortable like using it in the periorbital layer. So that is another really beautiful formulation. And so it just sort of depends on like what's, what's on your shelf that's working, what's not working. I don't think that people need to go out and like buy the entire system immediately. Maybe it's like, what's missing from my regimen? What's speaking to me? What is it? Just do I like want to replace like my day cream just finished up? Like, I'm going to enter that way. Sure.

Well, here's some things that got my attention on it. Again, I'm pulling from the research, so correct me if I have something wrong, but the clinical research showed that a 15-day clinical trial skin cell renewal increased 2.1% versus baseline without impairing the skin barrier. So that's huge because typically if you went to like the doctor for something that's going to get into the skin barrier. That's different. 100% agreed that it resurfaced the skin, enhanced radiance. Uh, 97% reported visibly renewed skin. 83% noticed immediate smoothness. And by the way, the trial was all women 47 to 65. So this was not like a spring chicken doing the trial. So look at me. This was all women peri and menopause and post-menopause, it sounds like. And, oh, speaking of which, a lot of women in their 50s, they all of a sudden feel like they have more sensitive skin. Have you heard that? Like, yeah. Do you— is— would this work for someone who's got sensitive skin? Yeah.

So we have also tested it across different age types, different skin sensitivity levels, and, uh, different ages. So kind of all sorts of different demographics. And what we do find is no change from placebo in terms of like skin sensitivity, you know, or irritation. So it's really— it's also like it's not formulated with any like fragrances or dyes or the things that tend to irritate people. Skin. Makes sense. One of the things, as you were reading off those, those things that I wanted to mention also is that a lot of like the traditional, like when we look in like what's in our cabinet, what we've been using forever, these like retinols, they're really irritating. Like as your skin starts to get drier, as you get older, it becomes harder and harder to use these on a regular basis because the way that that retinol is working is it's helping the skin cell to continue to turn over. But that's kind of also why you start to get this like flaking and irritation. That can also like really putting too much of these sort of irritating ingredients can also like interfere with the skin barrier as well. And so like you're not going to see that with the Urolithinate. You're going to see a very similar wrinkle reduction. So it's about a 15% reduction in wrinkles is what you would expect to see from tretinoin as well. But it doesn't have that irritation that you can use it multiple times a day and night. You're not having that.

Yeah. You know, I have my, my sink is so funny. I mean, I have so many skincare products. First of all, 3 of my friends have skincare lines, so I have all their I have other— there's— and brands send me stuff. So I have so much stuff and I have stuff I bought from a dermatologist, all the things. And for me, I was like kind of rotating through things originally. What I will say is when I use like the medical-grade retinol or stuff, it like, it hurts. Like my face starts hurting. It also affected my liver numbers. I noticed when I'm using some of that medical-grade. So I was leaning more towards the non-toxic, but I want to be clear because I know, I know some women just love some of their stuff. So like they, like they love a certain serum they're using or certain— can this stuff be used with other things? That's my first question.

Absolutely. Okay. So no issue there.

So if you love your hyaluronic acid or you love your retin-A or you love your whatever, there's no contraindication. Like you can still combine. Absolutely. Okay. If you were going to pick just one thing, what would you suggest?

Oh, it's hard. So I would probably say the exfoliator because it's very unique. Unique product to us. And, you know, again, like it's this sort of like leave-on exfoliator, right? Like you put it on almost like— I forget what the instructions say, but I just put it on my fingertips. Like I don't use a cotton pad or anything like that. I put a little bit on my fingertips and just smooth that on my skin. And because you're leaving it on, it's sort of in a way is serum-y-esque, right? It's like this sort of first base layer. And then my personal favorite, as I said, is like the Dewy Cream. I just like love, love, love that. That. If I had to throw the third in, because again, like, you don't want to break up with your favorite things that you're using, the serum is just a great entry point because you can just layer it with all the other actives that you're using.

And that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna report back. Like, this is the first time— I will say this is the first time that I'm gonna be like all in committed, like just try it, just that, for all the— because I'm— I do flip-flop products, but I really want to see. I'm so curious because I've been of the mindset that I have to like go get it lasered off or go change something there. So, I want to see before I do something aggressive like that. I'm just super curious what happens there. Can people still— I mean, I'm assuming it doesn't— there's no contraindication to still take Mitopure. My whole audience takes Mitopure because I love Mitopure and I talk so much about it. By the way, you all, with Mitopure, that's when I first had Jennifer on. I know we were not really talking about that right now, but I have so many stories. Somebody that works with me, she had not been to the gym in months, but she kept taking Mitopure. And she was able to leg press more than she's ever leg pressed in her life when she went back in. And she's like, "I haven't changed anything, but it's the Mitopure." And that's what the research, I guess, says about it.

I mean, we hear that all the time. That's wild.

What is that? Why does it increase strength? I don't get it.

Because it's all about cellular energy, right? To lift something heavy like that, your body needs energy to do that. And so, I hear that all the time. Again, my mom is probably like, "Why are you telling my entire life story to everybody?" She, when I first started working with Timeline, she was going for back surgery. She's, again, she's in her 70s, but she's like very fit. Like she works out with a personal trainer twice a week. Like she's a trainer herself. So she had back surgery and wasn't gonna be able to work out for like several weeks. And I was really worried about muscle decline in, you know, the older population. And so she started taking the Mitopure and when she went back to the gym, like she couldn't believe how good she felt. Like she was, you know, so for like a 75-year-old, it's pretty cool. 6 to 8 weeks off of the gym and to go back and like her trainer was also like, what are you doing? Like, you are like— she was just like, I felt great.

Yeah, I— that's like, you know, I try to weed down my supplements. There's always like about— I mean, I have a number that I try to stay under. I'm still not taking them, but that one has stayed so consistent with me. I have not swapped that out. Like, that is the only mitochondrial supplement that I take. Like, I'm like, this is because a lot of the mitochondrial supplements are so stimulating and they're like too much. But I like that this one does more of the clean out. Out. So they just— I keep them in my nightstand. So I'll have 2 gummies like before I even have my eyes fully open every morning. It's like my morning wake-up.

That's how, to be honest, like that's how it's sort of become for me for skincare. So, you know, like my background as a dietitian, like the science of what's happening like under the hood of MitoPure, like on the oral supplement, like I don't, I don't feel my magnesium working, right? Like I don't feel my vitamin D working, but like I take those those things because I know that I need them. Um, and that's how I feel about the oral Mitopure. But I don't care how good the science of the skin is, like, if I'm not seeing it. Yeah. And yeah, yeah. And so I feel like I've been able to really trim down my skincare routine as well. Like, some women, like, especially like younger generations, like, I see this like 10-step like skincare routine. I have been able to really trim down what I do and just really use the Mitopure products and just like it's like I said, it's like the exfoliator. Like I wash my face, it's the exfoliator, the serum, day cream, sunblock, and I'm out. I don't need to like add another like hyaluronic acid or, you know, another ingredient into it. And so that's just a really nice time-saving effect as well. One thing I'm going to try—

well, I'm not going to give up while I'm doing it— is I like to derma stamp. Have you heard of that? So I've been— because I used to derma roll. Okay. But I'm going to stamp because when when you stamp it, it almost gets into your skin better. So I'm gonna—

I wanna— I'm gonna try that.

Almost like micro— yeah, yeah. I know a couple companies sell those. Like, so it's— though rolling used to be like the thing, now people talk more about stamping because it's some— I don't know, something about the bacteria or something, or skin damage, but the stamping's better. So I notice if I do that a few times a week, whatever skincare line I'm using will get in more. So that's, that's kind of cool. I'm sure you can buy Derma amps in a lot of places. They're not expensive things. Okay, y'all, I will report back, but I'm gonna link everything up below. But if you go to timeline.com/NatalieJill, that's where you can find all the things we talked about— the skincare line, but also the, the MitoPure. I'm assuming you can find through that link, and you will always be able to get 20% off, I believe, if by going through that link, timeline.com/NatalieJill. Check it out, but I'll have to link it up into the show below so you've got all of that. Is there anything you wish I asked you that I did not?

No, I think we covered it all. So yeah, I love just like chatting all things skin, Mitopure, and just midlife. So thank you for having me.

Thanks, Jennifer.