041: Choosing Responsibility Over a Victim Mentality with Infidelity with Dr. Jen Esquer

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Dr. Jen Eskare, aka Doc Jennfitt made a very tough decision before the holidays to walk away from a love relationship that she thought and hoped would be her future. The decision was because of infidelity. Now, infidelity is not uncommon and breakups because of it is not uncommon either. What's unique about her story today, you see, when most are faced with infidelity, a few things typically happen. And those things include blame, gossip, and staying stuck in victim mindset. Although those patterns can feel comforting in the moment, they do not serve a place in healing or learning. Today's chat with Jen is not about blame or gossip or about being a victim. It's about being responsible, owning your voice, listening to your instincts, sharing your story, and being responsible for your healing. Join in today and learn how Jen truly leveled up and created everything from nothing. Today I've got my good friend Jen skrs on leveling up, creating everything from nothing. I was so excited to have you back, Jen. Truth be told, I actually interviewed Jen last week and the episode was great. I will share that episode later. It was amazing. And there was a shift that happened in Jen between the week that I interviewed and right now and chatting as friends. I said, hey, you know what? This is something we really get to talk about right now. I think it's going to serve a lot of people. So Jen is back. We will share her other episode later. But Jen, thanks for joining me. Let's talk today.

Thanks for having me on again, even though for most this will be the first time.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. So, okay, so this is an interesting topic. We're going to be talking about the power of owning your story and taking responsibility on things and about how you can shift perspective and have the control to. To heal at paces that you want with anything that happens in your life. So let's go back a little bit, Jen.

Yeah.

Okay. Talk about what just happened recently with you.

So recently I walked away from a relationship right before Christmas and I have been through the roller coaster of all the emotions that you go through when you walk Away from a relationship, no matter how that looks. And in particular, mine was around infidelity. And so it was a lot of just processing that journey. And I decided to come forward with it on social media to share my story and to speak for people that I don't feel get to speak and share their story.

Because there's such a stigma around it. Right. Like on both ways, the person that does it and the person that we perceive as the victim, there's this stigma. Like, we can't talk about it. So and so is wrong. It's like this whole thing, like, what went through your mind? I want to know, first of all, in your own healing and then also around that stigma with it.

Gosh, there's so much. And this is the reason I decided to bring it to the surface is because I was getting a lot of, you know, people who don't know how to handle grief around you, and they want to rush you through your process, like, oh, you'll be fine. It's better to know, move forward, dah, dah, dah. And just like kind of brushing it to the surface. And if people actually take that advice or if you're surrounded by people in that scenario, you might be rushing through a process that you don't have time to actually go through, or you might be stuffing things under that will show up later in life in some capacity. And so I wanted to really bring awareness into how are we, like, holding space for people and are we holding space for people to allow them to go through their process? It is not bad to feel all the feelings and go through it because the anger will pass, the sadness will pass, but unless you feel it, you might be hiding it and stuffing it down later.

Totally. You know, it's so interesting too, because as a society, we really do avoid these feelings. It's really interesting. And I noticed, and just being your friend, I noticed how many people said, oh, there's somebody better. Oh, there's this. Oh, you'll get past it. Like, that's gotta hurt right there.

Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, yes, I can appreciate the gratitude and what I see by. By having something like this come to the surface. There's so much gratitude in just knowing the truth. And, you know, of course I didn't have a family, we weren't married. There's so many things that make it less complicated for me and that I could be so grateful for. And also within acknowledging the gratitude, I can still be sad. So it's not one or the other. And it's not only Focus on gratitude, but it's also allow yourself to feel what you're feeling. And for about two weeks, I allowed myself to not even move, which is not me. Like, I am a mover. People know me as that. I struggled to create videos and to create content at the time because it was hard for me to one, eat and fuel my body and then move my body. And I think the other thing, though, is that I didn't beat myself up for that. It wasn't like, oh, my God, I didn't work out and I didn't sweat and I didn't do this. It was. I'm listening. And right now, my body needs space and time, and I'm just allowing whatever is in my process to be.

Okay. So I have a bunch of questions right now that I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I don't know, you know, if they're in a specific order, but I'm just very curious about this. Okay. My first question that's coming to mind is how is the ideal way for a friend or family member or somebody in your life to support when someone's going through something like this open space?

So that means provide a hug, provide a touch, provide a call, and if they answer, cool. If they don't, cool. Okay. And just saying to someone, I am here for you, and I am, and I feel what you're going through, and I'm so sorry. Not trying to understand it, not trying to justify it, not trying to attack the other person about it. Because again, it's not about creating a negative space. It's just about creating space and allowing that person to cry, to yell, to scream, to be angry, to be happy. Whatever it is in that moment that's coming up for them, holding space is the best thing that you can do.

I love that term because I feel a lot of people go into solve it mode. Like, oh, I need to solve it.

Yes.

I need to go get revenge with you. Or I need to, like. They want to, like, do something, right?

Yes. And it's so easy to go there, which I mean, to don't feel bad. Like, revenge does come up for you when it's like, infidelity just happened. But also allow that to talk out the anger or go, like, physically work out the anger or whatever that may be. But, yeah, try not to act on it.

Yeah. So it's funny how everyone becomes a psychiatrist, right, when something happens, or a policeman, they step into this other role.

Yes.

And, yeah, I love that you said holding space and really just being neutral and being there for what the person talking needs.

Yes.

Okay, let's talk about victim responsibility, because this is a really big one. Because it is a tendency in general for people to fall in victim mode. I want to hear what goes through your mind as far as feeling victimized and then how you shifted to taking responsibility.

I mean, yes, you fall victim to infidelity because you didn't know this experience was happening and you weren't expecting it to happen. But then at the same time, it's like life happens all the time. Things happen all the time that we can easily fall victim to. And so now what am I going to learn from this experience? And what have I learned from this experience?

Yeah.

And being able to really acknowledge that and dive into that and talk about it with friends or talk about it with coaches and healers or therapists or whoever. You need to, like, go talk to people talking. I'm blessed to have friends that are in therapy spaces, so I have been able to talk to them. But, you know, being able to talk through this process so that you are able to observe and better see where you can be held responsible, not that you cause someone else to cheat, because that's not what it's about. Taking responsibility doesn't mean that you cause someone else to step out. That is their choices.

What does taking responsibility mean to you?

Taking responsibility for me means that I'm observing. Was this a relationship that I should have even been in in the first place? Was did I need to stay until I got this evidence sent to me of infidelity? Or did I know intuitively, deep down that something was not right and I should have stepped away sooner?

Wow. Okay. Now that right there is a lot, because do you believe that people deep down sense something or know and they don't want to believe it? Like, could you say that looking back a hundred percent?

Really, 100%. And that was the one thing that really came up for me, the moment that this happened is one freedom. Like, I'm free from having. I would say in some ways, we were not aligned. And I was always holding onto this burden of, like, how could I be more? How could I be better? How could I understand more? How can I. Whatever. How can I. How can I help? Like, it's a weight that was on me.

Wow.

So being able to be free from that was like, oh, okay, I don't have to take this on anymore. So it was this freedom immediately that came. But then what also came was I knew something was not right. I didn't think it was this. I didn't think, you know, it would ever be infidelity, really. But I knew something wasn't right, and I made excuses, and I saw the possibilities of what could be. And I held on to that possibility so tightly, and it's almost like. And I did have this moment, you know, early on when I was, like, not sleeping and just writing, and I said, was it that I was trying to prove myself wrong? Was I trying to prove friends wrong? Was I trying to prove my family wrong? Because a lot of people saw it and intuitively knew that were closest to me, that this was not the relationship for me. And I just, you know, and I don't know.

So what do you want women to know that are feeling that? Because there's somebody listening right now that has that same. And they, you know, they're feeling that gut feeling. What would you want them to know? What would you want them to look at?

I would want them to know you are trustworthy. You and yourself and your gut and your intuition and your soul, you are trustworthy. And I don't think we hold enough power to that. We want to say, no, I don't know yet. Or. But this. Or look at this little spark of, like, possibility. And we want to hold on to the possibility of what something could be, what someone could be for us, rather than just acknowledging and fully accepting, you know, that this isn't where you're meant to be.

I just got chills because I'm just. I know people listening. That's hitting home for some people. And if it's not hitting home for them, currently, I think most people can relate to a time when they've experienced that.

Yeah.

That you just, you know, and that is the responsibility in it. It sounds like it's just listening to taking responsibility to listen to that voice, to listen to that feeling, that gut.

Mm. Rather than pushing it off to the side. Because we do that all the time. We make excuses for it. And it's so easy to be like, but you don't know him personally. Like, I do, but you don't like. But we have so much fun. And da, da, da. And. And I can look back and say all the reasons why I loved him and all the reasons why I wanted to be and stick this out and was like, no, but this.

Sure.

But at the same time, if I go deeper and I look at my true corest values, the ones that really mean the most to me were the ones that he was struggling the most with.

Oh, my gosh. So that is right there. I want you to say that Again, so you said the things that you wanted the most is what he was struggling the most with.

Yes. So clearly we weren't aligned.

Yeah. So that's the responsibility in it. Because saying I want these things, they're not present here. It was going to. Something was going to shatter that.

Yes. Yeah. And that's why it's like, I didn't have to wait until I had evidence of.

Totally. Because there was other stuff that just sort of pushed it over.

Right. That like, slapped me in the face.

Yeah.

To make me wake up.

What do you want people to know that. That. That came from. So, like, you, you weren't looking for information. You weren't seeing, searching a cell phone or doing this. What do you want? What was the right way for people to handle that? Was it good that somebody came forth? Is it bad? Like, I don't. What is the way someone listening, they know this about someone. What is the appropriate way?

I love that you asked that. Because in all of this. Right. This is all about taking responsibility, taking responsibility for my actions and my choices. Him taking responsibility for his actions, his choices, and anyone else around us taking responsibility for everything. So I'm extremely appreciative. The thing that hurts me the most is it was a man that came forward to me from his girlfriend that gave me the information. And as appreciative as I am for this man, I'm also a little disappointed that why didn't you come forward to me? Woman and other women have, and I appreciate that, but it was after the fact.

So for females listening right now, if you know this about a friend or not a friend, they should be reaching out. They should be communicating it totally.

And if you don't know the person but you know they're in a relationship, this is what we get all the time. Not my place, not my responsibility. That's theirs.

Stay out of it. They want. People want to stay out of it. They don't want to rock the boat.

But in every other situation, we know that we have to move into the discomfort, into the uncomfortable zone, in order to rise up. Why is this not the same? So in order to rise up in your health, you have to work out more. You have to get uncomfortable and sweaty with it. In order to rise up in business, you have to get uncomfortable. You have to move into these spots that you don't know about in order to rise up as a society, as community, why don't we lean into the discomfort? I get that it's not comfortable to go to someone that you're like she might not even listen. She might not care. And that's the truth. Yes. But could we take responsibility for our actions right here? Could you be that person who is driving along the road, see something in the road and moves it out of the way for other people to then pass by and not have to go around?

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's incredible to hear that from you because we're not doing favors for people staying comfortable and avoiding the truth. Now, I do feel personally that there's better ways to handle it, like a private message versus going public.

Oh, totally. Totally.

I'd love for you to speak on that just for a moment.

Yeah. And instead of creating a gossip train, because here's. But here's where I get to take responsibility. So I had heard during the relationship, someone say that he was flirting with her at a particular place and trying to get her to go home.

Okay.

And I heard that through a series of women that eventually got passed down to me.

But you chose not to believe it. Probably.

Of course I chose not to believe it. I made stories up around it. Oh, he's really friendly. People take that as flirting. She's insecure. I made up stories about her. So I'm taking responsibility for the fact that I made up stories and judged another woman. Not. Okay. And I'm taking responsibility that I expected her to directly go to me. If I'm expecting that, why didn't I directly go to her then and just ask the question? Is it because I didn't really want to know the answer? Is it because I'm really that judgmental and I was just assuming that it's wrong?

Yes.

You know, so it goes both ways. If you're going to want someone to come directly to you, if you hear something, then what if you went directly to that source.

Totally.

And then you made a decision based on, do I feel like she's telling the truth? Do I feel like that's a lie? Maybe she's not even going to answer me. Either way, you're taking responsibility to then to step in and ask.

And for women listening, I will share. And Jen, I'm sure you agree with this, and I. I've lived it too. If we are hearing things about someone we are with, they are likely true, because it doesn't. People don't just randomly make that stuff up. So there's something to look at there.

Yeah. Yeah.

Even if we don't want to believe it and we're defensive and we don't want to hear it.

Totally.

To look at.

Totally. And. And Then you got to observe, like, why are you getting defensive? And where is that actually coming from? And where are these sources coming from? And could we take a moment and sit with it and really get real with ourselves? And getting real is the hardest thing to do.

Yeah. Now, I want to know what you think about right and wrong, because there's a lot of people, like, right now coming to your side, like, this is awful. He's awful. And then they go to him. You're awful. Like, what do you speak into that? Because does being right or wrong or making somebody the victim or the, you know, the perpetrator, does that help or does that hurt it?

I don't know if it helps or hurts, but the reality is that's not the intention, and that should never be our intention. I have zero intention of trying to hurt him and take him down, because me trying to do that, one, it's going to look terrible on me. Two, it's not going to work and I'll regret it later.

And it keeps you stuck in the pain.

It 100% keeps me stuck. So I have, like, me wanting to take him down. That would never be a thing. And that's not where I'm coming from. I'm coming from. I know I could be judged. I know I could be shamed. This is one of the scariest things to ever put out. And I know that I bring up, like, a lot of possibility of being shamed and judged myself for even bringing this to the surface. So. But I.

Interesting, Jen. When people speak their authentic truth, like when you're really being in your authentic self, that it won't matter as much. But it's. I think people are so scared of being judged and shamed when they're not actually speaking their truth because they're actually something. But when you really speak your truth and you stand in conviction with it, that fear of being shamed or judged is so much less because you're telling.

Your truth, you know, And I. He told me that if I come out and say things like, I'm continuing to look like the victim.

I think you're taking a responsible stance right now, though.

Totally. But this is why manipulation is scary. And it does make us feel like we're being shamed and judged. And so there's a. There was always a part of me that's like, I don't know what is right or wrong. This is just for me, what feels freeing for me, what feels like I can take a stand for something that I'm not sure at this point. Our Society wants to take a stand for. And I know that there are women who get shamed for it, and I know that there's still a judgment around cheating and like, oh, well, maybe it's her. We don't know both sides of the story. And. But at the same time, guys, let's just be honest. If we're living in truth.

Yes.

You know, we get to be responsible for communication and our actions. So cheating shouldn't really be a thing.

Totally. What do you want the world to know about what you want for you and for him right now?

For me and for him?

Yeah. Like, for you on your own. And what do you want for him? Like, what do you want to happen for him?

I really don't want to speak into him because I think he's on his own journey. And however that looks like for him, I'm. That's.

Yeah.

You know, for you. For me, I. I want to be a stand for people being men and women, being able to come out and speak their truth and be vulnerable and be real and be in their experience and be able to move through it however they need to and know that, okay, there's something there that you weren't listening to. There's somewhere along the road where you said worth less than. Even if that didn't mean that you knew there's cheating going on, there's something that probably was telling you you're worth less than, and you allowed that to be.

So what I love also about what you just shared and how you answered my question is you really powerfully demonstrated how the focus gets to be on you and your healing and what's next for you and not even feeding at all into the other stories, the other person, whatever it is. And I think that is where the healing is. It sounds powerful, it sounds empowering, and it sounds. It gives hope and a really clear vision. And I think so many women stay so stuck in revenge or blame or, you know, taking someone down that keeps you stuck. And that is that victim mentality that you spoke of earlier.

Yeah, it does. Because, like, it's just not where your energy gets to go. And if you're really going to move forward, if you're really going to heal, if anything's going to. Going to come out of good from this. It gets to be, what do I give my next partner and how do I show up for myself in my next partner, and what does that relationship even look like? And it's almost exciting in that way because then it is all focused on.

You and just listening to you Right now. And you guys can't see her on video, but I'm watching her. Like, your energy and the way you just lit up talking into what's possible for you was amazing. Like, it was so cool to watch that. And that is the complete opposite of when I see somebody stuck in blame. So, ladies, I hope you're or men listening. I hope you really are taking this to heart. Jen, this was awesome. I want to know if somebody is listening to this right now and they're in their own personal tough spot with this on their own personal rock bottom. So maybe they're. They're sensing it like you did, or maybe they're in that victim mode and they're in that blame game right now, but it's their own personal rock bottom. With what you've learned and what you know now to be your truth, what are three things you would tell them to start doing so they can shift out of that and start creating everything from nothing?

So I actually, I have had women reaching out to me and asking me, you know, similar questions. Not a psychiatrist, and I'm not trying to be one, but the things that I'm asking them to do is just start questioning.

So themselves or the person?

Themselves.

Okay.

What is it that I feel like I'm worth in this relationship? What is it that I truly want in this relationship? And this could be friendship, business, everything. Right. So it's what do I really want?

Yeah.

And what am I really worth?

I like those. Yeah.

And are they aligning? Is it happening? And, you know, if something is coming up for you over and over and over again that you're questioning things or suspicious things have happened or you feel the need to look at his phone all the time or do something, I would say open up that space for you to really get real with yourself. So whether that's writing it out, talking with a therapist, or doing whatever you need to, and then opening up the space for communication with him. Not in a blame way, not in a. I feel like this, like if we come at it in attacking mode, you're going to get the response of attack and defense. So how do you want to be treated in that conversation in order to open up space and honesty and for, you know, the response so you get to lead into a communication the way that you want to be treated in that communication.

So good. So good. Wow, this is powerful. Jen, I think you helped a lot of people today. This is amazing. Where I'm going to put every place to find you. But for those of you that don't know Jen yet? You're going to want to know her. She's what I love most about Jen is she comes from a place of giving and teaching, especially when talking about her mobility method and what she's fascinating to follow on Instagram and everywhere. Incredible teacher. But I also love that she is so incredibly vulnerable and authentic and she shares what's actually really happening in her life, including this right now. So follow her. It is such an inspiration and she will brighten your day. So where are you? You're mostly on Instagram, correct?

Is that mostly on Instagram? I'm moving toward YouTube a little bit more so that I can get a little more in depth with you guys about it. But doc, Genfit everywhere, all the places.

Thank you Jen for sharing this story with us.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review. I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable and come interact with me over on Instagram @nataliejill fit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.