075: Why Your Health is the Catalyst to Handle All Things with JJ Virgin

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Today on Leveling Up, I've got my friend, JJ Virgin. If you don't know who she is, you might have been sleeping under a rock. If you know anything about fitness, nutrition, health and wellness, she has come up. She is a four time New York Times best selling author. JJ Virgin, thank you so much for being here today and chatting with me.

Oh, my pleasure. Happy to be here.

Yay. So you are everywhere. Anyone that knows anything about health, fitness, wellness, nutrition has seen your books, has seen you, but that is not always who you were. I know that there is a lot more to you before that got you to where you are right now today. Can you take us back to who you were before all of this?

Should I go all the way back to the bad picture when I was five with the cow and the bad glasses and all?

You got that? Yeah, you can go back there.

It's like, it's so funny because you know those pictures still live in your mind every single day. You know when you've got someone did your makeup and your hair and you're still looking in the mirror going, yeah, there's the glass, the cat eye glasses and howdy face and the bad hairdo. Thanks, mom. Honestly, for all of us, it is all of that that keeps us remembering our beginnings and keeping us humble. And there is no amazing cool person out there who's been successful who hasn't had to just keep getting back up again when things knock them down. So I just figure I just have got up more than a lot of other people.

I love that you just shared that because I think some people, especially when they're in their own rock bottom spot or they're feeling kicked down, they think it's only them. And I love that you just pointed that out because you're right. Nobody that's been successful hasn't had that happen many, many times.

Many, many times. It's always like, and it's so funny, here's the big fat lie of success. As soon as I get there, it will be easy. And I remember a mentor telling me early on she goes, there just is more zeros. It's actually. It never gets easier. You have to get stronger. And I will tell line, you know, don't wish it was easier. Make yourself better. Make yourself stronger is honestly the line that saved me. That saved it and saved my son's life. And I think you know the story. But back when my first real book. The book, I knew that was going to make an impact out in the world, and that was really like, my big driver, Natalie. After I got through the initial big goal in my life, which was never having to have a job. Okay, that was like, first big goal. I do not want a job. All my friends were graduating from college. College, Yep. Suit and work in an office. And I'm like, oh, no way. I don't want to do that.

So what did you do to earn money first? What was your very first thing?

So. Well, actually, my very first thing was personal training. And it happened because I was teaching aerobics. I am so dating myself. Here we go. Let's see if anyone even knows who the heck I'm talking about.

I'll know them all.

I was teaching aerobics for Richard Simmons.

Oh, yeah.

At the anatomy asylum.

Okay.

You know, that's. That's where it all started. And then I came back to UCLA.

With a big bunch of socks and the thong litard.

Oh. Oh, you got it, babe. I rocked. I rocked that thong in those big leg warmers. Totally.

And the scrunchies, by the way, I want everyone listening. That's wearing a scrunchie. We wore them first.

Yeah, we started that.

Yes, we did.

Yes, we did. So. And I think they're coming. Like, all the stuff's coming back. I wish the leg warmers had come back, because I really loved that whole look.

I could do without those. Or the men's boxer shorts.

Well, the men's boxer shorts, I was not down on. Those did not look good on me. But back over to this, I was teaching aerobics in California at a place called California Shape. And that ended up sending me over to Japan to teach aerobics, which was super cool. And then I came back, and someone said, hey, could you come to my house and teach me there? And I was like, okay. And the next thing I know, I'm going to people's houses. There's no equipment. I was literally, a friend of mine was a doctor, so I got medical tubing to use. You know, here. Here's the things that I missed. Medical tubing. That became all those exercise bands. Nope. I missed that one?

Yeah.

Yep. I, you know, as far as I know, it could have been jj. Next one, I had someone build me boxes to step up and down on.

Oh, that's funny.

Look at that. Could I done the step. Could have done that. Nope, missed that one. I was like going, oh my gosh. You know, it's so crazy. And you know, so as I started to build this whole career and that's how I got through college, I personal trained my way and by the time I was through college, I had a full blown business and I just trained my way through graduate school and doctoral school. But I always wanted to make a bigger impact and that's what I was. The next thing I know, I always think if you ask the right questions, it's crazy what shows up. And so it was like, right? I mean, like, you know, and that's why there are no victims. To me, they're only volunteers. We've got to step into this place when someone stuff happens. Because the one thing we know in life is stuff's gonna happen. It's like minute you get out of the initial shock and the, oh, crap. All right, so you know, what do I need to do here? And for me, working one on one as a personal trainer, like killing myself, I kept going, how do I like reach a bigger audience? And next thing I know, this is crazy. I'm on Dr. Phil regularly every week.

Wait, how did that happen?

This is so crazy. And again, it goes back to the asking the right questions. I was like, how do I help more people? And the next thing I know, one of the doct who I'd been helping with patients in his office was like, hey, I'm on Dr. Phil. Can you come over and help us? We're going to do this whole weight loss challenge in this house. I'm like, okay. And so I went to the initial house and it was me and a personal trainer and no one. It was crazy. I was watching this whole thing going, wow. They had like no plan, right, for really the nutrition side. So I walk in, I bring, I have this $5,000 Tanita scale with me. I just bring in all my stuff and start doing my thing. Because I'd done a lot of local TV prior to this, and it all went great that weekend. And then I get a call the following week, hey, when are you coming back? We need you to come in and weigh everybody. Because I was weighing them and I had all their measurements. I just did my thing and they're like, we need you to come back like asap. Because we've got to tape their measurements. So all of a sudden, I'm just on the show.

Oh, my gosh.

It was really crazy. Like, it was a two year run of all of their weight loss challenges. Yes. And that was. I dropped when I got. I got an ABC primetime pilot and learned that pilots don't mean go. I still remember getting this ABC primetime pilot. It was called you are what you eat all across the world, not in the US as soon as we start taping it, it turns out they said ABC really bought it because they didn't want anyone else to have it, but they just shelved it and they felt like the Biggest Loser was going to take over and there was no room for another weight loss show, which was really a bummer to me because here's the that I actually got offered to do the Biggest Loser teen show with Laila Ali, who's become a friend after this. And at first I was like, well, but I don't believe in anything you do. I tried to do that in a politically correct way. And they'll like. They said, well, we'll let you do it your way. And that's why I was so upset about you are what you eat is. I was actually going to be able to get the message out there that, you know, your body isn't a bank account, it's a chemistry lab, that weight loss is a hormonal issue, that all of this cutting calories and over exercising. What I saw them doing on Biggest Loser was stunning because, like, from what I've heard, everybody on the Biggest Loser has gained their way back and more. I mean, you know, because you don't hear about it, do you?

Right. No, of course you don't hear that part.

So. And it was interesting when I was doing Dr. Phil behind the scenes, we were doing adrenal testing, hormone testing, we were checking everything. And we were actually telling people, you know, hey, don't exercise so much. Shift what you're doing, you know, eat more. Because we could see when their metabolism started to dump and they were really hurting themselves. So, yeah, that's the part I wish had gotten out there because I think the public sees things like the Biggest Loser and more of that crazy misinformation gets out into the world.

So true. So true. So would you say, though, that that initial, like, even Dr. Fielding, is that kind of what got your name out there? Because at the time, we didn't have the social media, we didn't have the Internet. We didn't have all the stuff that we have now, is that how you sort of built your brand to begin with or what? What was it that did that?

30 years of grinding. You know, here's the thing. If I was going to point to one thing, I'd point to the virgin diet, okay? But in order to get to that place, all these things had to come before it. I mean, starting with me, when I was building my training business, I would go and speak all over the place. And a lot of the times I'd go speak, and there'd be three people, four people, 10 people. You know, people say, I want to speak on stage. I'm like, well, what are you willing to do to get to the audience of 5,000? Because you don't walk on to the audience of 5,000. I started doing loads of local TV and these things called Wellness minutes. So I had to edit myself, which is a horrifying experience.

Okay.

You know, there's nothing more humbling than editing yourself on video.

What do you mean, editing yourself on video? Like you.

I had to watch the video with an editor and go, okay, cut it there. Do that. Oh, wow. It was the best thing ever. We should all do this because you see all these weird, freaky things that you do that you had no idea you did.

That's funny.

Before I was on Dr. Phil, I'd done a lot of that and I'd done a lot of local tv. So it wasn't my first rodeo. So I didn't just. Because again, I hear people say, oh, I want to be on Dr. Oz. I'm like, well, have you done anything else? Because that's not the first show.

I love that you shared. I love that I just asked you that question that you shared that answer. Because this is such a false thing that people believe that they think that there's, like, they're going to get discovered. Like, this is going to. I'm going to get on this, and then this is going to happen. Because it's never like that. The thing that you got on is a result of a lot of stuff. And then it's with the thing that you got on.

I thought I was going to get discovered, too, Natalie, because every time I would do tv, people like, you're so good. You should do that all the time. I'm like, well, put me on again. It was like never waiting when I was on Dr. Phil. I'm like, surely he's going to want me to do a book. Surely some agents going to contact me. Nope.

Yeah.

That is not what happens. You know what? You make your own Luck. You discover yourself if you, wherever you want to be in life, like you're going to get there because you just won't give up. You will, you know, it's like you pick what you're going to die on the hill for and you just keep going up that hill. Right?

So true, so true. So it is a hustle, it is the hard work, it's the continuing. And it's like you said, asking the better questions and taking the opportunities you get and then what do you do with those opportunities?

Exactly. So here was the big turning point and it was. I was doing this show and honestly the show just. It's the show that will not die. It's called Freaky Eaters. It was on TLC for a couple seasons and it's basically Hoarders meets My Strange Addiction.

Okay.

Uh huh. So it was fun. We had fun doing it. My co star, Dr. Mike Dow and I, I mean, we went to more Starbucks all over the country, like, you know, hunkering down, waiting for our scenes. But we had a lot of fun doing it. But it also shows that you really want to make sure that whatever you're doing, you're in front of the audience that you want to be in front of, which is not what Freaky Eaters was. I know, I knew it once I started doing it because my kids would come home and their, their friends would be like, oh man, your mom's so cool. They never said that when I was on Dr. Phil. So, you know, here I am on the show. And the great thing about that show was I met my agent who changed my life. And this was the person who I feel like discovered me because she said my costar had written a book and he'd gotten this big advance. I'm like, how the heck did this guy do this and get this big advance and get this book out there when he was basically an unknown. And here I'd been on Dr. Phil for years, you know, and I'm like. So I sit down and talk to her and she goes, well, you should write a book on that food allergy thing. And I go, it's not a food allergy. I kept telling everybody, but I had a lot of social proof and I think this is so important. Everywhere I went I was talking about what could get in the way of you losing weight or even cause you to gain weight because your body is a chemistry lab. And one of the things I would talk about is food intolerance or food sensitivity. And that was the thing people would following me out of the room asking about now, you would think that I would have a clue and go, oh, I should just do that. Normally, the thing that really is your gift is right under your nose and you cannot see it. It's like you can't see the picture right when you're in the frame. So I couldn't see it. She saw it. She said, write a book on that food allergy thing. I go, well, it's not a food allergy. So we sat down and went, should be an intolerance. Should it be a sensitivity? We decided on food intolerance, which now has become part of the vernacular.

Yeah, I say it all the time. I didn't even know where it came from.

That's when you know you've really created something. Something and given a gift to the world and.

Yeah.

And that you're really just a vessel to get it out. There is when people go, I have no idea where this came from. But, you know, wow, it's great. It's great. There were other people talking about, too, but, like, you know, that was what virgin diet was. It was taking an elimination diet and making it sexy and easy to do. And. Yeah, and what I saw was people were using elimination diets for more gut problems. And I started to use them because I was doing testing in doctor's offices, and I saw when I did this food sensitivity testing that the same foods always showed up. And when we pulled them out, they lost weight quickly and they kept it off. And I was like, huh, maybe we should use it for weight loss. And then I went, well, we really don't have to test. It's always the same foods. And then if we pull them out, we can have them just check in and connect the dots and see how they feel when they pull them back in. And that's a better test anyway, right?

Yes.

That's where the whole thing came from. I had tons of social proof. I'd done it one on one. I'd done it in groups, then I did it online. I didn't just, like, think of something sitting at my desk and think, I should go and do that with thousands of people. You know, that's not the way that we need to do things. We need to check if I love Pat Flynn's Will It Fly. You know, first thing you have to see is like, is there, like, is this interesting to people? That's where speaking goes so well. But we went out to New York, we sold this book, and this was.

A book agent, or was it an agent? Like a.

This was my Book. My literary agent, who I call my book whisperer, Celeste Fiennes.

We have the same one. She's mine too.

Oh, my God.

We're the same agent. I forgot about that.

We do so much. Yes. So Celeste saw this. She goes, this is what we're going to do. I'm like, all right, I'm very coachable. You know, I find the best person and then I do what they tell me to do. I don't try to reinvent the wheel. Think I know better? No, I just go do it.

Everyone listen to that. That's such great advice right there. Why do people reinvent the wheel? Go to the best.

Yeah, well, I always love when you sit there and go, okay, here's the system. And then someone looks at the system and they think, I could do it better before they've even done it once.

And then they kind of follow it. Or they kind of follow it and.

Then they go, hey, that system didn't work.

I'm like, well, totally.

Yeah, It's a pet peeve of mine. So here we are, we get this big advance and we. I've got the book and I take the advance money, I invest it into everything. I. I'm doing a public television show. I'm working with Brendan Burchard. We've outlined a book launch, done everything I need to do to be successful with this book. And a month before the book is coming out, like the crazy time for books, right? Yep. My 16 year old son is crossing the street and is the victim, and I hate to even say victim, but the victor of a hit and run. Because one of the things my ex husband says is, you know, Car zero GRANT one because he did survive it. However, when it initially happened, he was airlifted to the local hospital. We get there and this is one of the problems is it's in Palm Springs. And so I understand that if it was the typical Palm springs resident who's 80, then this was the response the doctor should have had. But he was 16. And the doctor came out and told us that he had a torn aorta. It was going to rupture sometime in the next 24 hours. And he also had multiple brain bleeds. And the challenge was that they couldn't repair his aorta because if they did, his brain would bleed out. And so it was a very specialized surgery and he would never survive the airlift to the hospital that could do the surgery. Even if he was to survive that airlift. Oh my gosh, they said he'd be so brain damaged it wouldn't be Worth it.

Oh my gosh, jg, what is even going through? Time must have just stopped. I can't even imagine.

It was as if, like, here's the crazy thing and I think this is what our brains do to protect us. This whole thing is happening and it is like time is in slow motion and I'm watching a really bad movie.

Yeah.

And I mean, and that's all I can describe. I remember walking out. I was with my 15 year old son who honestly was the adult in the situation. My ex husband and I were like, like sitting there in disbelief. My 15 year old son is looking at the doctor when he's describing this whole situation, telling us to let our son go. And he goes, well, it sounds like like, you know, there's a 0.25% chance that he'd make it. And the doctor says, well, yeah, that sounds about right. He goes, well, we'll take those odds.

Yeah. Dr. That even talks like this.

Well, here's the thing. Yeah. I mean at first I was like looking at this doctor, like I'm going to punch you. Yeah, right. But. But then you realize, wait, he is doing the best he could do. He's used to 80 year olds. If this was an 80 year old, they're not coming through this. We airlifted Grant to the next hospital. But I'll tell you something even more important. I walked outside that night before we like went full court press on getting out of here because I wanted to check in. And what I wanted to check in with was, what does Grant want?

Yeah, right.

What does Grant want? You know, we didn't know what happened that night. It was, it was amazing. People were so quick to jump to the conclusion that this woman was, you know, this horrible person. And granted she shouldn't have left the scene. The woman who hit Grant.

Right.

And we know she got out of her car, gasp. And drove off, but I have no idea what happened. My son and I haven't talked about this part of the story. I'm going to share it now. My son kept telling me he was not happy. He's severely bipolar, had threatened suicide multiple times. And he said, hey, I'm going to go get hit by a car. And he said that multiple times. Now I don't believe that he actually did it, but I believe he manifested it. And I'm a super powerful manifester and so, so and words create. So we have to be very careful. Like I once dated a guy who always tell me he was starving out of his mind and he always struggled with this weight And I go, listen to your self talk. Because if thoughts are powerful and thoughts create and you can create your reality, think about what could have happened here. So I had no idea what happened. And so before I fought for him, I needed to make sure that was what he wanted. So I went outside and I stood there and I said, what? You know what, what do I do? And I got the clearest like hit from Grant because we've been. I knew I was pregnant with Grant the morning after conception. I woke up.

Oh my gosh. I still relate to that. I was like that. I knew. The doctor told me I wasn't. They said they took the test and said I wasn't and I was pregnant. I knew like that minute.

And you're. And your husbands are like, yes, you're crazy.

Yeah, you're crazy. I'm with you though. I had the same thing.

Yeah. So I walked out and I'm like going, yes, I'm pregnant. It's a boy. So I always been super duper connected. And when I first went into the hospital, I couldn't feel him. And then when I went outside, I felt him and I heard fight. And that's what I walked back in. I said, we're doing this. Quit standing around. You know, my ex husband's a medical malpractice trial attorney. So like right verbiage to say to get them, you know, to do this thing. And so my son was airlifted. And it was a very different scene when he got to the next hospital because it was harbor ucla. We had this doctor, Carlos Donaire. He walks up to me, he goes, you the mom? This is what I do. Last week I had someone thrown off an overpass. I can totally fix him, don't worry. We find out later, Natalie, that this guy got the call at 2 in the morning. And at 2 in the morning he accepted the case. When one hospital accepts the case, the other one kind of relinquishes their duties. So he accepted the case, not knowing if the kid would even survive. Like my son. They didn't survive the airlift. So here he is, kind coming in at 2 in the morning. He finds the stent that he wants to put in him that's no longer even available. It was part of a trial and wasn't supposed to be used on kids. He said, I figured I'd ask for forgiveness. It's what I wanted to use. He assembled an orthopedic team, a neurosurgery team, a critical care ped and a critical care regular. And his Cardiothoracic team between 2 and 5 in the morning.

See, now that's someone who is living their passion and doing really good things in the world.

That doctor, Right? I mean, he is just amazing. And he saved my son's life multiple times in that hospital just because of who he was. But literally, for me, he walked up, he goes, hey, you don't need to worry. I totally got this. Let me show you where I'm gonna fix him just to get me out of that room. Because it was, like, quite a scene to have five surgical teams prepping your son for surgery. And he goes, shows me the operating room, then said, let me. I'm gonna take you over to the waiting room. This will take me a couple hours. I'll come in and tell you he's. He's fine. And I was like, okay. And it was funny. I was actually doing a show for Discovery at the time. I literally went in there and wrote blog posts.

Oh, my gosh. How did you even do that?

I went in there and wrote because I had to distract myself. No, they're writing blog posts. Here's the crazy thing. I was in there. My ex husband John was in there. John had switched his shirt. He was wearing this red shirt. We were sitting in there, and months later, Grant said something about when we were in the waiting room and he was in surgery and John was wearing the red shirt. Now there's no picture.

So he literally had like an. It was almost like he had that near death experience where he left.

He totally had the near death experience multiple times.

And that's maybe what you felt when you said you felt something crazy.

Sometimes I would walk into the hospital and feel him, and sometimes. And I go, I don't. I don't know where he is. And I had this energy healer, Tommy LaRosa, working with me, and he said, you're. And this is crazy stuff. And I will tell you, prior to this, I thought all this stuff was a bunch of hooey. But, man, he would come, he'd call me on the way in and go, his blood pressure's high. Walk in. And by the way, when I'd walk in, even though he's in a coma, his blood pressure would come down, but he'd say, here are the things that he has challenges he has going on. Talk to the nurses about this. And he was always spot on. And I'm like, okay, you know, it's pretty crazy. And then I literally would sit down next to Grant with my laptop working on. Because my book was coming out, and I knew, you know, here I am. I'd invested everything and borrowed money to make that book go because I was so, like, I'm in a hell of.

And I want people to hear something about this, really, because I know it's coming up for some people, like, you're a child in the hospital and you're working on your book thing. But I want everyone to understand that that's. No, work can be a coping method for people, too. So, like, just like, somebody might turn to a glass of wine or a Xanax or they need to go clear their head with a run, or they got to go meditate or whatever. Work actually does that for some people sometimes.

Well, it also wasn't optional. And here's the. Here's the real issue. I knew I had to be in the hospital with my son. I wasn't leaving. Number three, leading cause of death is death by doctor. It's not because it's. It's because of all the stuff going on in a teaching hospital. Number one, cause of death in kids, brain injuries. I'm not going anywhere.

Yeah.

I'm the primary financial support for my family. If this book didn't go, I'd be bankrupt. If I was bankrupt, there's no way I can do what I need to do for myself. I'd already made that decision. I was going to make my son. I was going to help him be 110%. I was telling him that all day, every day.

I love that.

And so all I did, Natalie, was clear the decks. I went, all right, I need to make sure my son is not just surviving, that he is better than before the accident. That was my driving purpose. Better than before the accident. 110% need to make sure my other son is, like, doing okay, too. He just saw his brother nearly die and, you know, walked up to him on a stretcher with literally 13 fractures, bones sticking through his skin, covered in glass. And, oh, my gosh, we still are finding stuff in his skin. Like, he dug out some glass the other day. Six years later. It's crazy.

That's crazy. Wow.

So Bryce is traumatized. He's at home having migraines and stuff.

Yeah, of course.

And. And I have to make this book go so that I can take care of my family. Yeah. What I did was. It is amazing how many things that we do on a regular basis that are completely unnecessary. So I cleared off every single thing. I realized that the only way I was going to.

Isn't that funny how that works? We think we're so Busy until we have to clear stuff and then it's.

Like we're busy with busy work. What I realized was to pull this one off because my son's in the icu. When you go into the icu, you have are gloved, you are masked, you are gowned. He has holes. He has a hole in his head going to his brain. There's no, like, I have a sniffle. I can go in there. So I went, all right, I have to be like 100% health. You know, there is no deviation. I walked in that way, but I stayed that way because I put my self care on the very top of the list. Before him, before Bryce, before Grant, before my book, my number one thing was to take care of my health because if I did couldn't show up completely and make life and death decisions, my son was going to die. So that is the number one thing that I did, was put my self care first. I got my eight to nine hours of sleep every night. I ate healthy, I exercised, I did stress management stuff. I did all of that. So for people saying I have time, it's like, make time. It makes sense.

Yes.

You don't have your health. I love that statement that when you have your health, you have a thousand dreams. If you don't have your health, you only have one. And it is so darn true. And I said, I'm going to show up huge for my son. And so I got to walk in and be able to make those right decisions. And if I can't think straight because I'm tired, that won't happen. If I'm tired, my immune system will go down. If my immune system will go down, I'll get sick. If I'm sick, I can't go in. So that was it. Self care is the top. And then I knew that I had to kill it on this book because this book was going to make or break me being able to do everything I needed to do for my son. I mean, my son. You know, insurance doesn't cover a lot of the things that you really need to do to help someone come back from a traumatic brain injury. You know, we've done stem cells and hyperbaric and neurofeedback and a lot of different nutritional therapies. And that's not. That's not covered by insurance. And no, I didn't want to ever. I mean, I'll do whatever I have to do for my kids. You know, you're a mom. You get that.

Anything.

So it wasn't me going, oh, you Know, I think I'm just gonna. I'll do my book, too. No, this. This was all not optional. And I think this is a way to look at life. Like, we tend to let so many things get into our life that really don't move the needle, that really don't matter. There's a lot of things going on that you can delete out of your life or you can automate in your life, or you can delegate. You know, people would call up and go, what can I do to help? I'm food.

Yeah.

Yeah. So there's a lot of. Like, I sent out an SOS email out to my entire list. I posted on Facebook, and I said, listen, I don't need your sympathy. I need your support. And anything, you know, that is cutting edge in brain. Traumatic brain injury, send it my way. And people just showed up and came in droves.

Isn't it amazing how when you really can connect with people and show up for them and then just. And ask for. Be authentic and ask what people will do? Like, so many, so many times, I think people get stuck in their head thinking that they have to do everything alone and that they have to just solve it all alone, but that asking for help and connecting really does go far.

Well, here's the thing, too. Like, I think about times in my life that I've gotten the most joy, and it is not the pair of cool shoes I got. Like, you know, I mean, so inevitably, you end up giving those away, and that gives you more joy. So I look at what really gives me joy, and it's always related to helping someone else.

You live that. You are such the example that I just want to share with you. I've known JJ Kind of like as an acquaintance for years, but we connected a few months ago, and then it was like, as soon as you had my vision on what I'm doing on my podcast, I joke that she's like, my podcast booker now. Like, you've connected me with the most amazing stories.

Like, you.

You're such a giver, and you're always looking to help others, and I think that's a big reason you've been so successful.

Ah, well, thank you. It just. It's. It's who I am and what I do, and I realized that it's actually. I love the book, Adam Grant's book, Give and Take. If you're just giving, it's almost a sense of power or control or something else. There's a very vulnerable place when you have to ask for help, but it's Also, like, it's right there with gratitude. Like, when you look at the things that really improve your mental health. I think that that one of the most devastating things on in our world now is a lack of community and a lack of helping each other. I mean, you look, especially women. Think about women. 100 years ago, 500 years ago, if you were not part of a tribe and you were not helping each other, you were dead.

True. Yeah. And by the way, everyone, bring that back. Community, Facebook, that's not the same thing.

That's. I mean, because there's the other side of it that when you show up and you are with people, touching people, hugging people, that oxytocin response that you get, there's nothing that comes close to those types of things. I don't know if I told you about this, but last month I did something. I'm always looking for things that freaked me out and take me outside my comfort zone.

Sure.

And I met a woman two years ago. This woman, Kat Hoch. And Kat Hoch's whole purpose in life is to rehabilitate convicts. Oh, okay. So when I first hear this and I first meet her, I like, I admit, and I. One of the things I really strive to be is not judgy.

Okay.

However, I was judgy. I was like, huh, I'm not interested in that. Right. And then she did this event, and at this event, I was. At this event, I actually brought this to my mastermind group where she had people line up and face each other. And it's called the empathy line. And what happens is she starts to say different things, like, you know, I was devastated when my parents got divorced, or I've been suicidal or I've lost a child. And as people start to step up, if it's true for you, step up to the line. And if it's really true, you raise your hand and you go through this whole exercise and you realize that all these people who you thought had perfect lives. Yeah, right. It's like, nope, we've all struggled. And really, in life, it's how you show up.

So true.

Right. It's easy to show up when things are going well. I can't think of one time when life was going perfectly and I went to bed that night and thought, gosh, I really grew today. Yeah, right. It just never happens. So she actually has a 93% success rate with rehabilitating imprisoned people, incarcerated people, so they can get back out on the street. And the average, I think, is something like 10%, actually in the regular world. Can come out and live in the regular world. And she has a 93% success rate.

Incredible.

And she brings entrepreneurs to prison and she has them coach the inmates.

Wow.

And when she brought this up and threw it out to this group that we could come do this, I didn't even hesitate. And I said I was in. Then for the next six months before this came up, I was like, what the heck was I thinking?

That's what my brain would. Yeah.

But it was funny. She knew this would happen. We all committed, and then it was like, basically the next six months were like, you committed. You can't. They're counting on you. And I'll tell you, one of my biggest things was like, what the heck do you wear to prison? What? What do you wear?

Yeah, what do you wear?

Maximum security.

I would have no idea.

Facility. Well, you don't wear orange?

I was about to ask that.

No, orange and no. No mini skirt. Yeah. But it was interesting. They had a whole dress code and you have to leave everything outside. You can't bring anything in. They have all these rules about this. And as we're going in, we have to cross through. We have to do background checks. We have to cross through multiple different gates. And there's all these guards.

Yeah.

We're going into this recreation room. And before we go in, the last thing they mentioned to us is this. There are no warning shots. So if a gun fires, by the way, they shoot to kill and go to the wall. Don't. Don't go down to the floor. That's what we teach the inmates to do. You just go to the wall.

And we're like, okay, why would there be a gunshot? What's going on? Why isn't it.

If there's any fights or anything that break out, that's that they can shoot to kill. Wow.

Okay.

Oh, yeah. And I mean, we're in a maximum security correctional facility. Like, there are people in there, a lot of gang members, people who have, you know, killed other people. Like, that's what we're in. Yeah, that's who we're hanging out with. Okay. We walk in and they're all standing in like a greeting line and there's music going and they're high fiving all of us and giving us like, these flower lays. And they're super excited. And we do that empathy line I was describing with them.

Okay.

And what was crazy about that is there were people in there when they said what was the first? And some of the people who came with us actually were on the other side so it was anyone who'd ever been incarcerated. Yep. And what I learned when I did that with my group was that, hey, we had people in our group that had been incarcerated. And so the people have been incarcerated were all on the other side, whether they were out or not. But they were like. She asked the question, you know, when was the first time that you went to jail? And she started with, like, 16. And a bunch of people stepped up to the line. 16. Then it was eight more people stepping up the line. The youngest person who'd, you know, gone to jail was four years old when he first got put in jail.

What, four?

I'm like, four. What did he do?

How does it.

Yeah, but it was really interesting as we were stepping up to the line, because it made you realize that. That, you know, there's, like, plenty of. Plenty of reasons throughout your life, you might have gone to jail, but you just weren't, you know, weren't one of the people profiled. Right.

You know, it's just so.

It's.

I love this. That whole idea behind that line, because it's so true. Like, you can look at somebody and you make up all kinds of stories in your head about that person and our judgments. That's human tendency. But when you do know someone's story, it changes everything about your opinions with them.

Everything. So we're here. We are. We're business coaching these people, and we're doing like. Like different types of exercises with these people. And this guy who's about 30, who could have been my son, looks over at me, and he's like, you know, I'm picking you for this next exercise. And, you know, it just. It was like one of those ones where I think I've known this guy for lifetimes. Right. And I just wanted to take him home with me. I was like, I wish this had been my son.

Yeah.

And I just fell in love, like, maternal love for this. This kid. And he said to me, you know, because I kept watching him step up. We were stepping up to the line, and I remember there was something about, you know, not feeling like your parents loved you or something like that. And I stepped up, and he just looked at me. We're both crying. I mean, it was just. But after that, we had to do this forgiveness exercise. And he looked at me, goes, I can't forgive my mom. I'm here because my mom was on drugs when I was. When she was pregnant, she was on drugs. When I was a little kid, she brought. Brought gang members into the house. I never had A chance. And I said, would you be open to the possibility of forgiveness? And I walked him through what I went through in my own life with forgiveness and how it finally allowed me to find the love of my life at 52. And prior to that, I would never let anybody in and what it did to me and how it helped me in prison. And he's sitting there crying, listening to this, and he goes, yeah, I can be open.

Wow.

You know, and I look at, like, important moments in my life, moments that have. That have transformed me, and I will be going back to that prison next year, and I'll be bringing friends because, like, these are the things that shift you and change you and open you up and realize that we're all here, we're all. We're all the same. And, you know, having a son who's bipolar with a traumatic brain injury, who can be. Like, when he was coming through all of that, they told me, oh, it would be ugly. And I thought maybe just when he woke up from the coma, and I didn't know it would be years of ugly because he'd lost his internal editor. And that can make you violent and fearful because it turns on your, like, reptilian brain into flight or fight. And, you know, he could easily have been imprisoned.

Yeah.

You know, there's just. There's so much to learn from that. How?

I have so many questions now, but I won't. I won't take your whole day to come next year. I know. I might. I might actually. I'll go down what you did. Like, I'd say yes, and then have that same thing. But I get what you're saying, and I think it's super powerful. And I know that. That to be true, that when I do connect and understand and have compassion for people, I change my whole opinion of them.

What?

You mentioned you had a process for forgiveness. I don't. I know that that's more than just a quick answer, but if anyone's listening and they're like, they're st on that not forgiving.

Where would you.

What would you tell them?

So this is. I wrote this in the book Warrior Mom. I think this is probably the most significant thing you can get good at. Right. Because, I mean, being empathetic, being generous, and being able to forgive. And the forgiveness is for you. And this is what's important. When we think about forgiveness, we tend to think about the other person.

Okay.

It's got nothing to do with the other person. It is you. Like, every day you're angry at someone, it's not hurting them.

Yeah, you're right. It's just hurting us.

Humor is in you. Yeah.

It's hurting you. Yeah.

So I was just fortunate. One of my best friends is Dave Asprey. And Dave was watching me, and he's like, you know, you need to do 40 years of Zen. This is his neurofeedback program.

Okay.

And it's. I was supposed to speak during the same time he wanted me to go because he wanted me to go with Fish and Lockheed, Ani and Joe Polish. It was gonna be us, like, crazy crew. And I'm like, all right, I'll go. I had no idea what I was going to. And if I'd known, I probably would have said no, which would have been a big, huge, and a massive transformation. And I have so many friends onto it whose lives have changed because of it. And what happens is you put electrodes on your head, and you've got a computer that can tell if you're lying or not.

Okay, so good.

And I went to. Because he told me, oh, it's 40 years of meditation in a week. I'm like, sign me up.

Oh, yeah, I need that. I was like, this is great.

I suck at meditating.

Me, too.

Sorry. Emily Fletcher, I love you so much. But you go into this, and what you do actually, is it teaches you how to get into a more creative state through forgiveness. Because holding all of this little. And you know, if you're. If something's going on because you feel a charge, when that person's name comes up, you know, you're like, got this thing, you know, the opposite of love is not hate. So. So you notice it and you feel it. And so what you got to do is go through this whole forgiveness process where you first get yourself a little judge and jury and that together. And then you. You put yourself into whatever you want your courthouse to be. I, for some reason, decided I was gonna make this, like, Narnia, and I had Aslan, and I put myself up on a green field, like, with some ancient Roman ruins.

Okay.

And I'm just. Cause it's kind cool of cool. And then you bring that person out, and you sit them down, and you charge them with the crime, and you charge them with the crime, and you keep going and unloading on them until tones from this computer just flatline because there's nothing left. Okay, then. And here's the big key thing. Then you step over to their side.

Oh.

And you. You become them, and you explain what was going on. And so just for the Example of the woman who hit Grant. What I always wondered that night was, what if my son darted out in front of the car? You know, he was wearing dark clothes. It was dusk. What if he darted out and it was a white car? So kind of miss so he runs out in front of the car. And what if she had. What if she was an illegal immigrant? What if she had little kids at home that they would take away from her? You know what? Like, I just looked at all that from a mother's place.

Gosh, this is. This is like, so. It sounds so simple and basic, but it's. You're right. That's like such a different. Like, we never know the true stories of people or what's going on. And it's all perspective. And you're right. You can rewrite that story or tell it in a lot of different ways.

Totally. Because she got out of the car and gas. Then she saw my neighbor pull up and block the street so my son was protected. And get on the phone so she knew he was protected. So, like, I reframed that whole thing. And it was funny after I did that. And then you have to check in with your judges and make sure that you really are. You check in and make sure that you've really forgiven them, because you say, I forgive you, and they check in to make sure it really is. Sometimes it might take a couple times, but after I did that, my buddy Dave was like, all right, so now it's time to go back further, you know, because I'm an adopted kid, okay? And I always had some stuff around that. Like, I met my birth mom and my birth dad, and then they dumped me again. And so I had all this stuff around that, but I realized they did not dump me. They actually put me exactly where I was supposed to be. They gave me life. They freed me. They cared enough to put me in a place where I really should be. And. But it was a really thing of, like, they dumped me and blah, blah, blah, you know, the story.

You rewrite your whole story with it.

You can rewrite it. And again, you know, perception is reality. And so I went back and I really got into, where was my mom at that point? Where was my. My real mom? Where was my birth mom? What was really going on? Forgave everybody. Total different shift transformed my relationship with my adopted mom, who was never able to have her own kids. You know, I am her kid. Like, when your mom adopts you, you are their. Had to deal with me as a teenager. So she.

This is really insightful jj, because, you know, and I want people listening to really hear this, because so I think everyone really gets that when they know somebody's story, they've changed their opinion of that. But now you're really connecting the dots with that, too. We can use that in our own lives with how we've perceived somebody and the stories we've made up about them. So by taking that on, like, by envisioning, like, what are the other possibilities? And we can. We can literally go back and change and rewrite the story that we've been rewriting in our brains, because we make up a story about what we think happened. Like, this horrible woman hit my son. Like, that's a story we could go run with. And the more you keep thinking that and creating that thought process, you're going to keep building on that story and believe it to be truth. But you can rewrite that, like you're saying and change your whole life with.

With, like, I would have been eaten alive with hate and anger and venom. And how does that. What does that do? And that's the big thing that is the biggest takeaway is forgiveness is for you. You.

Yes. I love that. Nobody's ever explained it to me quite like this, so I'm. It's really. That is super insightful, and I hope that everyone hearing this sees that as well. That's like. That's such powerful advice and just such a great perspective Switch. And I. And I absolutely love that. And how is that now, 1. How is your son now today? I want to know that. And does that still carry you through? Is that still become, like, your. More your motivator for success and what you've done?

I have a lot of motivators, but my kids are definitely my number, my number one. And I think any mom feels that same way. It's like, you know, you want to do well. I think more than anything else, I want to be the mom my kids are thrilled and proud to have, you know, and then I want to help them become amazing men with great purposes who make a difference out there in the world. And so that. That is, like, the key, most important thing. There's nothing better than getting a text from your son saying, I love you, mom, which I get from both of them. And Grant is doing amazing, like, considering they thought he would never survive the airlift, much less the surgery, much less ever, like, talk, walk, move. They told me he'd never walk. He probably wouldn't talk. He couldn't hear. Like, it was just like, on and on and on, and we Just called him Grant. Never gonna. And my ex husband said, grant, you can prove. I give you permission to prove all the doctors wrong, which he has. So it's super cool. He's still really struggling to find his purpose, even though it's right there underneath his nose. It's like, I know it's there. I'm seeing it. And I'm like, honey, like, you show people what's possible out there in the world. So he's. But he's also 23, so, you know, it's not like he's like, you know, he wants to be out there doing all these things. I'm like, we've had to really focus on his learning, his recovery. It's amazing who he's become because, again, these. These and who my other son has become. They are like such cool, amazing human beings. And Grant's interested in all sorts of things. He's actually designed his own recovery just intuitively. Like, all of a sudden, art. And he would walk out. He never. He never was into any of this stuff. He was the typical teen with the girlfriend and doing computer games, and all of a sudden, he's out in the garden. Like, he did all the grounding stuff. He's a heavy meditator. And then he does a lot of art and music, like, all of these things, and a lot of all these things that really help challenge and help your brain to heal and grow.

So cool. What I love about chatting with you today is, I think. I mean, I'm seeing a whole different side of you. And I know people listening are too. Like, everyone sort of knows you as fitness nutrition. Fitness nutrition. You know, when they think of sugar, they think of you like, you've got this reputation with that, but you are so much more than that. And I believe that's why you've weaved that into so much of your programs. And why all. Everything that you do is so successful and so helpful to people because you really do get the whole bigger picture.

You know, it's funny, when I wrote the miracle mindset, which became Warrior mom, they're like, but, you know, this is all mindset stuff, and you're a fitness nutrition. I go, it's all mindset.

It is.

Life is mindset. Whether you're successful in business, successful as a mom, finding a great partner, it all starts with that. Why? It all starts with your mindset. It all starts with who you believe yourself to be and who you want to be. It's all that. And that is what's so cool, because that is available to Everybody doesn't. It doesn't matter.

I love that and I'm with you on that.

Legion anything.

I'm with you on that. I feel like it doesn't matter what nutrition or fat loss or whatever program somebody does, if they don't get their mind right, it's not going to last. That has to be first, too.

Exactly, exactly. And it will continue to evolve and grow. As I said, my first big why was I don't want to have to have a job, you know, and then it just grows from there. But, you know, let your guide be your why.

Yeah. So what's. What are you working on now?

Oh, my gosh, a lot of different things. Let's see. First of all, a big move and a new house in Tampa, which everybody's leaving me here.

Everyone is like, San Diego is the place to be. Everyone's moving.

So just got a house on the water and we just bought paddle boards. And I'm super excited about that. So that's the biggie. And then I have a mindshare community, and that's really my baby. It's where all the health and wellness entrepreneurs get together to act. And I just love that so much because it is how we're making the big, you know, the big difference out in the world. My goal is to help a billion people.

Oh, wow.

Through that group. And so we are well on our way. And then I also developed a new. I wasn't planning on this, but I have a higher level group of women who get together mainly just to do retreats, hang out, share ideas.

The unicorns.

Yes, the unicorns. And no, we're not crazy. It's kind of like a rejuvenating, you know, nurturing group.

Yeah.

Each other. I'm very, very big on creating communities of support that you're great at it. And then in the, in my personal brand business, we're actually redoing it. All right now. It's becoming Reignite Wellness with the super cool membership and some new programs. And I'm really redefining how to think about dieting because I know Chalene and I went on a rant about this the other day. I personally think diets are ridiculous. It's clear they don't work, that we need to rethink that. We really need a word for how you eat every day because that's different than how we use a diet, which is therapeutic and short term to get an. To learn something or get an effect and then pull some of that into your daily eating. But I want to get us off this, like dieting, you know, body hating.

I think there's a lot of us that feel that way. So it's. Yeah, I'm with you.

I think it's a lot of us who've been in the industry for like a decade or more and seen everything and just gone. We can do this better.

Yeah.

And it's probably. We should probably get us all together.

Yeah.

Do something. Because I just, I want to do it for every woman's because it's. This is impacting women far more. But for everybody's psyche out there who's, you know, feeling like it's them and they've got something wrong with them and they're just following the wrong set of rules.

True.

The problem, right?

Yeah. Well, this is awesome. Where do you want, where can people find you? Your website, your social media? Where are you most active?

I mean if you go to jjvirgin.com which is we just brand new website.

Yay.

Two years later, everything comes off of there. And then Mindshare collaborative for all the health and wellness entrepreneurs is that area. So. But everything's at JJ Virgin Podcast Social.

Amazing. Thank you, jj.

Thank you.

Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review. I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable. And come interact with me over on Instagram at Natalie. You'll fit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.