087: From Invisible to Legendary with Dan Lok
Dan Lok talks about his path from a difficult childhood marked by immigration and bullying to building a successful business. He credits martial arts, finding mentors, and shifting his mindset with turning his life around and learning to act with urgency.
Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, Fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst, learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Immigrating to Vancouver from Hong Kong at age 14, with a thick accent and a single mother, Dan Locke quickly became the invisible kid. Dropping out of college to make money to support his family, he started chasing shiny dimes in business, which led him to near bankruptcy. Too busy making money the hard way, Dan missed the opportunity to see his father one last time before he died. After 13 failed online businesses, enough was enough. Today, Dan Lok is one of the biggest legends in the online education space. With more than 15 million downloads a month of his content, 100 million predicted by December 2019, he's become one of the most visible people in business, mentoring online and now in tv, radio, and live events. A true showman, Dan can be seen on every social media channel and on major TV networks by breaking all the influencer rules. Speaker, author, real estate investor, global educator, and international celebrity are just a few of the names Dan is called every single day. I can't wait for you to hear the discussion I had with Dan Locke on how he completely leveled up time and time again, creating everything from nothing. Today, I'm so excited. On leveling up, I've got the one, the only Dan Locke. And if you don't know who he is, you probably have been sleeping under a rock, especially on social media. Dan, I am so excited to talk with you today.
I'm excited. Let's level up.
Yes, let's level up. So, my gosh, you've created so much. You are brilliant. People see you everywhere, you're so successful, but I know that's not who you always were.
No, no, no. In fact, not a million years could ever imagine I would be doing what I'm doing today.
So take us back. Like, who were you before all this?
Well, I was born in Hong Kong and I immigrated to Vancouver, North America when I was 14 years old, coming to a country where I don't speak the language, with no money, no connections, and not a word of the English language on my lips. So English is not my first language. So shortly after that, my mom and dad got divorced when I was 16. Years old. So at the time, just my mom and me, we were living in here in Vancouver in a small one bedroom apartment. And I remember one day I came home after school. At the time, I would sleep in the living room with a sleeping bag and my mom would have her room.
Right.
I could hear that my mom was talking to someone on the phone. And I was like, okay. And I could hear her crying. I don't know why. And so I knocked on her door, I said, mom, is everything okay? And she's like, oh, yeah, it's okay, don't worry. I said, no, no, you don't seem to be okay. Like, tell me what is going on. Like it worries me, right? Is this something like health related or like what is going on? And my mom was very. First of all, she looked shocked and then she was crying and she told me that your dad just went bankrupt.
Wow.
And I said, what do you mean went bankrupt? That your dad's business partner just took off, took all the money and your dad is now like, there's nothing. And that left him. Later I realized it left him about a million dollars in debt.
Oh my gosh. And not just broke and bankrupt, but a million dollars in debt.
Million dollars in debt. And that destroyed. That destroyed my debt emotionally. That destroyed him financially. And he was man, after that incident, he never bounced back from that. So as the only child in my family, I had to grow up and man up and mature. Because now, before my dad was sending some allowance to us just for me to go to school and things like that. My mom has never worked a day in her life. Yeah, she couldn't speak English. So then I had to just like say, you know what? I'm gonna take care of my mom. I have to take care of my mom. I can't just sit here.
So what are the pills for like our kids to be hearing, like you were so young, like to be hearing this and feel like you have to take on that responsibility so young.
Yeah. And I think that in some way shape who I am today. And that's why I learned learn to learn self reliance in the early age where. So my teenage year, it's very different from most because while like all my friends and things like that, they were, you know, having fun, partying and drinking and things like that, I didn't have my whole, my whole teenage years. I was just working, right. I was learning, was building my business out of my first business when I was high school. So it changed my life dramatically for sure. Now looking at the time, it was Very unfortunate. But looking back is probably one of the greatest things that ever happened to me.
Right?
Yeah.
You know, I hear that frequently that when you're going through something, you know, that's that much of a setback, you feel scared, upset, you don't know why it's happening to you. But I don't know anyone that doesn't say late. That was the best thing that could have happened to them.
Yes, yes. And that shaped your reality that even when I was going through school, I was the invisible kid because I couldn't speak language. I was like, now you can see me, like, doing podcasts and like social media speaking. I was like a super shy kind of kid.
You can imagine that.
Like, imagine, like, imagine me going to school and you know one of those kids where they sit in the very back of the classroom.
Yeah.
Never put up their hand, never ask questions. You go through a few semesters, you still don't know the guy's name. That's me.
That was you?
That was me.
Right.
Wow.
That was me. Like, I was the invisible kid.
Right.
Except I got bullied, like, all the time. Because when I was going through high school, the area that I was in is in Surrey, in Vancouver, which is kind of like a hood. Okay. It's not a hood. And I was one of the only three Chinese in my entire school. So I was getting. I was getting bullied. I was getting beat up. It was very, very difficult.
First of all, you're going through this major thing at home with your mom, your dad, and what you're taking on, responsibility wise. And now you're a minority, really, in the area, and you're getting bullied and beat up. How do you not get into a depression and, like, want to give up? Because it could have gone a very.
Different direction, I think. I think I was in a depression when I got beat up. It's like when the first time ever in my life I got beat up, I was kind of traumatized by it. So I would example when I know if. When I finish the class, if I stay too long, so I have to. Every single day, I had to leave a little early because I don't want the other, like, kids to find me and bully me.
Right?
Yeah.
You want to, like, get a head start.
Yeah. And I would know if I walk through the main hallway, chances are bumping on. Bumping into them is a lot higher. So I sneak, like this another, like, back door. I will leave and go to go back. And so I would try, like, do all these things. Right. So I think, yeah, definitely. I was very depressed and I was. There was a lot of resentment because keep in mind, when I was in Hong Kong, life was fine. That's like, my dad was a middle class, right? We had a decent life. And suddenly from there to here, like, no, from a lot of friends, decent life to no friends getting beat up. Dad went bankrupt, living in a one bedroom apartment. I was like, what the hell is going on? Right?
Like, did you start believing things about yourself? Like, what was the story you were. You were starting to believe about that? Like, did you. Because I would imagine you try to reason it, like, why is this happening to me? Or what?
What was that?
It was just a lot of anger, anger towards my dad. Like, why, why was he so stupid? And then why did he divorce my mom? Why am I even in. In Canada? What is going on? Like, a lot of. A lot of. A lot of resentment towards my dad. I didn't talk to him for a few years after that, right? Because I had so much anger towards, like, why you did this to me, right? Later on I found out that was actually not the case at all. But in the beginning I was immature, right?
Well, it was a way to justify too, what was happening. I would imagine. Like, you want to put it somewhere I couldn't justify?
Yes, that too. But then I remember one night I was actually watching cable TV and there was a Bruce Lee movie that came out. It was Return of the Dragon, where he was love versus Chuck Norris. He was in Rome, a guy who couldn't speak a word of English, going to a foreign country, kicking like bad people's ass and things like that. And there he became my hero overnight, right? Then I became a huge Bruce Lee fan. Then from there I got into martial art. I think for me, martial arts saved my life.
I was just gonna say, do you think martial arts saves your life? I've heard that before.
Martial arts saved my life.
Why? For people that aren't familiar with martial arts, why do you think that did that?
Because I think unlike a lot of people, they think martial arts is sports, which you could see as a sport. If you take classes, you're doing kickboxing and things like that, but I think for certain art, that's why it's called martial art, right? It's not just martial wei or martial sport, it's martial art. There's an aspect of art to it which is a lot of philosophies about life, about discipline, about how you look at things, right? And the great thing about martial art is this, like Imagine, Natalie, if I'm playing as I'm playing tennis, right? I'm playing against somebody, right? But martial art is very much a self discovery journey, okay. Because you're not really competing with anybody. Because to me, martial art, now this, oh, it's self defense. No, it's not. Because nowadays with like weapons and things like that, to learn a technique for 10 years, it's not very efficient.
Yeah.
Like you can pull a knife, it's ten times more efficient.
Yeah.
So it makes no sense to say I'm gonna let this technique protect myself when you can have an instant edge with a weapon.
Right?
So that's not it. But through training, you learn to eliminate your own defect. And you learn.
What does that mean, eliminate your own defect?
Because you learn to face your true self. Because it doesn't matter how good you are, you think you are, there's someone that can kick your ass any day, anytime. So you're never quite good. So as a master, let's say you're learning. Let's just take a punch, for example. Like a simple example. I'm learning how to punch. Okay. First you need to learn how to do it properly, right? How to do the punch. And then can you hit with power? Okay. You can hit with power, can hit with speed. You can hit with power and speed, can hit with accuracy. You can hit with accuracy, power and speed. How about distance judging? How about your reflex?
Right.
How about your economy of motion? It never ends. A simple technique, it never ends. It teach you to be humble. It teach you to eliminate like every little thing that you think you're very, very good. You can just make it a little bit better.
Does it also teach you perfection? It sounds like that's a lot of perfection there too.
It teaches you you'll never be perfect.
Oh, the opposite. Okay, so you'll never be perfect.
You'll never be perfect. And it teaches you to know that you. There's always another level, right? There's this always, always get better. And to me, it's very interesting. You know how some people, they like to meditate. Like they're going to meditate. To me, martial art is a form of, it's almost to me, a higher level form of meditation, I would imagine.
Because you have to be so focused on it that you can't focus that you're not thinking about anything else, I would imagine.
Think about it, let's say to meditate. You want a quiet environment, right? You have the music going on, you're meditating, which I meditate too, right? And you get into a space where you don't think, like emptiness.
Yeah.
Easy to be calm and cool when there's no distraction. Try to be calm and cool when someone is trying to kick your ass.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
When someone's trying to hurt you and you need to empty your mind and be that. And you need to trust your body will move when you want it to move.
Yeah.
It develops a lot of self trust. And all your training comes through. There's no right in Marshall. We have a term that you can talk all. You can talk all you want. You touch hands, two seconds, you know what is going on. It's very, very simple. You can arm this and this. Let's touch hands, you know, immediately. All your stuff, all your training all comes through very quickly.
Right.
I love how realistic that is.
Right?
Yeah.
Do you still practice it? Are you still like.
Yes, I practice like that once, once, twice a week. I want to do more because. Because of my busy schedule, but I do it more like as a hobby. That's my meditation, right?
Yeah, I love that.
So I love that that almost gave you back your power. It gave you something else because you were, you were in this bad state. So if I were to have asked you as that child, that was maybe just getting into martial arts, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? What was coming up for you then? What did you think you'd be doing?
I want to be a martial art instructor.
That's what. That was it.
Okay.
That was my biggest dream. I thought I would have a few students, I would teach martial art. That was it. Because funny thing is, money never interests me, ever interest me. It's because I had to make a living to provide for my mom. So that was my motivation and then from there. But what I do love is I love to teach. I love to teach now. Very interesting. Ali, I'll share a quick story with you.
Yeah.
So you know how the kids were bullying me and things like that, right?
Yeah.
So then I was learning martial art as I got like a stronger, like, you know, bigger and faster and things like that. Those kids don't pick, don't pick on me anymore, I'll bet. Yeah, they don't pick on me anymore. What's very interesting is this. Some of them actually then became my students.
Oh, that's funny.
Yeah.
So I was learning because you know how bullies are cowards. They bully other people to make them, you know, feel better themselves. So I was actually telling them, hey, you don't need to bully people. You bully Me, you beat me up badly. I forgive you.
Right.
And I said, you don't need to do that. Now, I'm tougher than you, but I'm not beating you up. Like, I'm not trying to get back at you. Do you know why? Then I was explaining to them and they're like, okay. And I was training them and I remember at lunchtime we have this punching bag and we'll be training in the cafeteria, actually, and there's a little area. And I can notice once they actually learn how to hit harder, they don't want to beat people up anymore. It's fascinating.
It is fascinating.
It's very fascinating. And when I saw that, I think that's how. Why I do what I do today, why I educate, what I teach.
I do have a question about the bullying thing, because you just brought up an interesting point about them being cowards. Because I know there's people listening even right now that maybe their kids are being bullied or they've been there. Why do you think kids bully? Where do you think that comes from?
Insecurities. Insecurities. Because chances are they bully other people because they want attention.
Okay.
Or they want. They don't want to be bullied. So the best way not to be bullied. Let me bully other people first. Right. Let me hurt you first and you won't hurt me. Then I will have the reputation that no one will hurt me. So it's actually a lot of insecurities. You can see a lot of the kids bully other people. Usually they come from a very dysfunctional family.
Okay.
Right. Like a more broken family. And you notice. So it's the thing. A healthy kid with good self esteem, they don't need to hurt other people to feel good about themselves.
Right.
Yeah.
Think about. They would, they would play sports, they would focus on schools, they would do other things that to help to build that self esteem, you don't need to hurt someone. Like, what do you do? What do you get by beating someone who is like weaker than you? Right.
Unless it makes sense. Dysfunctional family. Maybe they're getting hurt at home, so they're taking it out on others.
Yeah. There's an outlet for them. Right. So it's a lot of fear. Yeah, it's a lot of fear in them.
So you wanted to teach martial arts, you wanted to be a teacher.
Yes.
You really kind of started practicing that with the kids that bullied you.
That's right. And when I saw that transformation, I was hooked. I was like, oh my God, Like I could learn Something I could teach to someone and you would see them change. Not physically.
Yeah.
Like a total. Like the kid who was like, mean looking like that, now it's like, cool.
Yeah.
I'm like, this is amazing. I didn't know what that was. I just thought it was amazing.
Right.
And from there, I think that planted a seed in my mind that, hey, you know, I. I like this. And maybe, maybe I could do this in the future. Now the difference is now, of course, I teach business, entrepreneurship, but actually I'm the same guy.
Right.
I have always have that teacher's heart.
Right.
I like to teach. I like to see people get it. I like to see people transform in front of me.
Right.
I get a lot of joy from that. The difference is now just on a bigger, much, much bigger scale. It's the same thing.
So I'm also hearing a theme with you on two things that are really common with people that achieve massive success. And I'm wondering, I want to ask you about these two things and if your mom helped you with this. But one, you learned the art of surrender. Really. Like the kids that were bullying you, you kind of surren to it. And then being at peace with that and to like, really mindset, like strong mindset around it that, like, to be able to separate yourself and like, take action and do martial arts or whatever else. So was your mom instrumental in that? Where did you learn those two things?
It's interesting. My mom. My mom is like. I would describe her as like a angel because she is like one of those souls. Like, she would be friends with everyone she meets.
Sure.
Like, it's just. She's friends with everybody. Just like, no enemies. And like, like, she would be friends with the people. Like, example, she'll go to buy groceries and she would know everybody at the grocery shop. And like, she's that type of person. Amazing. Like, something I. I still find it, like, amazed. I'm amazed by how my mom. And she's always like, smiling and then helping people. And so, yeah, like, yeah, she's always like a sweet, sweet soul.
Right.
So from that. And she saw what I do, it's like the opposite of her.
Yeah.
Because, like, I'm this strong character. I am like a strong business person. I could be tough. And my mom's like, where does that come from? That's not from your mom. That's not from mom. That's not from dad. I said, that's probably from some of the role models I have in the business world. But what's interesting is I'll share something a different way. To answer your question. So when I got into business, just like my dad, when I saw what happened to my dad, like the business partner issue, I said to myself, I would never, never let that happen.
Okay?
Like a business partner and things like that. Guess what? The biggest party, the first big failure I had in business was because my business partner took the money and disappeared.
Oh, my gosh. Okay, So I want to hear about that, but I also want to know that I want to. I want to make sure I'm not skipping gaps here. So how did you even decide to get into business? Because you went from like, I want to be a teacher, martial arts.
That.
How is that appealing? And then how did you end up with a partner and how that. That happened?
So then, so I had this dream of maybe I'll. I'll be a martial art teacher someday. There was like a future. Something like, but I need to make a living now because we. We were running out of money. Right? My mom, like, we were running on money at a time I was driving a Ford Lemon, like a Ford Escort, like white Ford Esco with.
I remember that.
Yeah.
Like, I bought it from my aunt, my mom's friend for $2,500. Right? It's a lemon.
Right.
And so with that car, and that was like, my mom and I would go to get groceries. And I remember we'll go to a bakery near my house back then. We'll go there at 6pm Once a week. Why? Because the bakery closes at 7. And all the bread would go on sale.
Oh, wow.
And we'd buy a load of bread for just a few dollars. Remember, when we go to buy groceries, we always go to the. There's a corner where a lot of groceries are discounted because they almost expired.
Right?
That's where we shop.
Right.
I didn't want my mom to have that life. I just like, I feel like I fail as a son. So I was very determined, driven. Say, I'm going to change this. I don't care how. I don't care what. But I knew I couldn't change it by just having a job. Yeah, right. I just knew that wouldn't work. I need to make more money, generate more income to support my mom. So I chose business.
And what was your first choice in business? Like, what was the partner that you partnered with? Like, how did you get into that?
Yeah, So I started landscaping company.
Right.
Not even landscaping company, which is me mowing lawns. Right. But you can say it's a landscaping business.
Right?
You Know, knocking on doors. I was. I was delivering, like, stuff for people. I was fixing computers for people. Just any kind of like a side hustles to make it.
Lots of side hustles.
Lots of side hustles. Right. At the time, the term wasn't even that popular. But that's what, that's what I was doing. Side hustle.
And it's. Everybody else was just figuring out what you wanted to do.
Yeah. Like, you know all this stuff.
Right.
And at the time, I had. And then joined network marketing. I tried network marketing and did them work a lot of different things. Yeah, we all have tried that. There's some other entrepreneurial people. So this particular business partner I met, the guy which is in the same building that I was staying, so basically sold me on the idea, hey, man, you need a website. And I said, okay, I need a website to promote whatever I do. And I pay him a few hundred dollars, which we didn't have, long story short, back and forth, back and forth. We borrow money from family and friends because he basically sold me an idea. Hey, he's a good business. I didn't know anything about Internet marketing back then.
Okay.
He said he got a website, and I've got a great idea for you. That if you would do this Internet business, you can pay off the money, you can make some money, and you can take care of your mom. I'm like, oh, this is great. Yeah, this is awesome.
Right?
But you know, it's gonna cost you this much money to build this thing. I said, all right, so, okay, no problems. I actually borrow from my relatives.
Okay.
To put money into this thing.
Right.
And then after a couple weeks later, oh, you know, the website's done, but we need some programming. We need more money. I didn't know any difference. Okay, fine. Because now it's like almost like a gambler, right?
Yeah.
Put in more money. Now you want to get the money back. You put in more money.
Yeah.
Nelly before. Long story short, I was in debt for $150,000.
Oh, when you had no money to begin with.
So now you're all borrow. Like all borrow money.
Right.
It's really, really bad.
So here you repeating a pattern that you saw sort of happen with your dad. You said would never happen.
I swear it would never happen.
Right.
Wow.
It happened to me.
So what did you make up about that? What did you just. What stories did you start telling yourself.
About that I sucked as a business person? Maybe, maybe, maybe business is not my thing and self doubts and all that? Of course. But what's interesting is this, that through that period of time, people look at what I do. They say, oh, like Dan, how do you turn it around? How to stay motivated? I had nothing to do with motivation. Zero. It had to do with desperation.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Desperation makes us do things.
Yeah.
It wasn't because I was so driven. I was so determined. No. Because I was 150k in the hole.
Right.
My mom was crying every day. I had to pay this back. It was like a. More like a do or die, I have to. So I knew I would never be able to pay this back if I just go get a minimum wage job.
Yeah.
I just, I love that you're saying that right now because that's the difference. Like so many people, their feelings come up. Like, I don't feel like it. They. They talk themselves out of things. But when you have to, like you had that certainty, like I have to because of desperation. But you. There was no other option. Like it just was going to happen. And that sounds like that's what shifted everything.
Yeah. Like, to me, one thing I teach all my students is it's called the gun to the head. Urgency.
I love that.
Yeah.
So imagine I said, so whatever goal that you have, let's say it's a fitness goal. I'm going to do something very graphic here. Okay. Just stay with me.
Okay.
Fitness goal or you want to quit your job and start the business? Whatever you think that I don't know if I can do.
Yeah.
So I said, picture this. Okay. Picture this. Imagine there's a terrorist who just kidnapped your loved one. Your kid, your husband, your wife, your parent, your love. The one, the person you care about the most. They point a gun to the head and say, you've got one year to accomplish this. You don't. I'm gonna pull the trigger.
Yeah.
It happens.
Yeah.
It's gonna happen. I don't care what the hell. I don't care. I don't care what it is.
No one's gonna talk you out of it. No feelings come up. You're right.
You just do. So. So it's that kind of urgency. And the same thing at the time, it was that kind of urgency. No one probably get into my head. I put against my own head.
Right.
It's that kind of urgency that propel me to take, to do whatever. Take.
Yeah.
When I was calling people and trying to get business and I getting rejection, rejection, rejection. It doesn't bother me. I don't have time to worry about that. Right. Because I was so focused on the Goal.
Do you believe that people can create that urgency, desperation, no choice, gun to head, without actually having a gun to the head? Do you think it's possible? And how do they do that?
I think most people cannot because they don't know what that is. Like.
Okay.
Most people cannot, however. Can you manufacture some of that? To a degree, I think so. I focus. A lot of times, people, I get this, they're like, oh, I'm sure Nelly, you get that too. I don't. I'm not motivated.
Right.
I don't feel like it. Chances are you have not experienced enough pain.
Yeah, I follow you there because I think comfort's a big thing. I think people are comfortable, they want to stay comfortable, so whatever. So they feel uncomfortable in a moment now they want to make more money or they feel uncomfortable, they want to lose weight, they feel uncomfortable, they want to make a change, but the uncomfortableness doesn't stay long enough. They're usually. They stay comfortable. Pain, they don't make the change.
Pain. Like, look at all these incidents where it's a lot of pain. Pain changes people very quickly. Like when you have something dramatic happen in your life, it's like sometimes, you know, it's unfortunate how human beings are wired that sometimes I teach people to be grateful. To be grateful. You got to cherish and be grateful. Usually until someone very closest to you passed away, they don't know what that means.
You're right.
When someone passed away, now they know, oh, I need to cherish the people within my life. I need to spend more time with them. I need to be grateful every day that I'm just alive. But that's how human being works. When we are so comfortable, when there's no pain, then. So I would say sometimes put yourself. Sometimes I do that. Where I put myself in uncomfortable situation on purpose.
Yeah.
Kind of put myself in a corner that I gotta make it work, then it works. But most people are not that driven. And that's why I say, I always say that your environment is more powerful than your willpower.
Mm.
I like that.
That a lot of people, they think they want to rely on their own willpower to get something done. I say, don't count on that. You are not that determined. Most people. Most people don't have that kind of self discipline, including myself, by the way.
Right.
So I don't want to count on that. I subscribe to the philosophy of environment design. Design environment. That supports your goals. Right. It's just like if you want to, it's like you don't want to gain weight. Then don't stock your fridge with a bunch of fatty food. Just don't even do that. Don't go buy. Yeah, let's just get some chips and stuff.
Like.
No, you put it in the. In the, in your kitchen, you can eat it.
Yes.
But if you don't even give yourself an option, I open the fridge, there is no fatty food. You cannot eat it. Good. That's environment design.
That's really good.
Yeah.
This is super powerful. I love all this. How do you go from that? Like, tell us, tell me the journey for, like, to what you do now. Because, like, high ticket sales, that's a very niche thing. And you, you happen to be, like, the best at that. So how do you go from that to that? Like, that's a big leap. How does that happen?
It's over a decade of leap. Yeah. So from the different businesses that I failed.
Right.
And now I'm. Now I'm 150k in debt. So just like most people, I was still. I was looking for answers. Right. I was looking for, like, I was reading books. I was looking at, like, motivational, you know, materials and, you know, Tony Robbins and everybody.
Right.
And I couldn't quite find what I was looking for until I met my first mentor.
Okay, how did you meet your first mentor?
Yeah. So that was the answer for me. May not be the answer for everybody, but that was the answer for me. And when I met my first mentor, his name is Alan Jacks. And at the time, Alan was running one of the most successful financial education companies in Canada. Was conducting a lot of different events. And, you know, remember, I was trying different businesses.
Right.
So at the time, I would be getting a lot of these, like, junk mails.
Yeah.
In the mailbox. And he would, like, Alan's company would send us these junk mails, and I would get these invitations to go to these, like, training and workshops. They're free, but usually at the end, there's something that the speaker would offer. I couldn't afford that, but I would go to the free training because it's.
Still good information at the very.
Anything I could get.
Right.
So I remember I was attending this training, and I was sitting in the very back of the hotel room, and sitting next to me, there was a gentleman. I look at him and his name tag looked at him. I looked at Speaker. Look at him. I looked at Speaker, I said to myself, no way. No freaking way. I saw his name tag, Alan Jacks. And I said, are you. Are you. Are you Mr. Alan Jacks? Said, Yes. I said, oh my, I said, oh my freaking God. I was like yelling, screaming like, I'm like a fanboy, right? I said, I love your stuff. I am a big fan. Now Howland, at a time was like, oh, yeah, you know, we, we do a lot of events. We, we do events from like across Canada. I said, no, no, no, not the events. I love your marketing. Yeah, yeah, because I was studying its marketing, right? His letters, the direct mail back then, I loved, I, I would collect them, I would three hole punch them, put him in binders. And he was like, this is crazy Asian kid that's like, looks at my letters and stuff like that, right? He was like, but he was flatter, Right?
I'm sure you noticed it.
Yeah, yeah, he noticed it. And so then I asked a question that forever changed my life. I said, alan, could I take you to lunch? And he said, he paused for say, pause. He said, what the hell? I got to eat.
Yeah.
I love it. And I love that you say, can I take you to lunch? Instead of can I pick your brain? Because nobody wants their brain picked.
And then we walked downstairs, we connected, we had lunch. And it's funny thing, that lunch, we sat down and I was so transparent. Alan, I'm so honored that you're having lunch. I'm so excited. Like I'm a young guy, I'm just getting started. And like I said, just to be honest, I don't have a lot of money. So I said, if you want to order like a little sandwich, you're funny.
I love it.
I could pay for it, but if you order stick, my cart would probably decline.
Oh, I love it. I love how authentic.
Yeah.
And he was just, he just laughed. He said, no worry, I'm not that hungry.
Right?
So it's, and that's, we start a relationship. And then from then on, I, I beg, I plead, I, I, I was showing up at his house, I was moving for him. Yeah. I was stalking him. It's funny because Alan's wife thought, who is this kid?
Yeah.
Did you had an affair or something like that? Like, who's this kid showing up at a house like doing all this work, right? What's going on here? And then later on, he basically took me under his wings and I became a surprise.
I love it and I love, I hope everyone hears how much value you added to him. I know you're just saying I mowed his lawn, whatever, but you flattered him. You added value to him. You did. You came at a place of service and flattery and I think so many people miss that with mentoring. You know, like, they just go to somebody and say, can I pick your brain or will you be my mentor? And that, like, what's in it for that? Like, that doesn't. But when you go at it from a place of acknowledgment, recognition, and then you add value first. I think people do want to help you.
You're 100% right. I think a lot of people, they say, they ask me a lot, like, how do you find a mentor? How do you find a mentor? I said, I don't think you find a mentor. Your mentor finds you.
Yes.
And so remember, whoever you want mentorship from, he or she probably has what you want.
Right.
They are where you want to be in your dreams. They don't need you, you need them.
Right.
So don't go to them first. Don't go to them like a victim or have that so good. Yeah. That mentality of, like, oh, entitlement, enthality. Because you're successful, you should help bully the me. Don't do that. I didn't. I never thought about it. Just, what could I do? What could I do? What can I do? Yeah. I want to solve problems. Maybe my expertise, my skill, my knowledge. I can't help that person. But let me tell you, this. Doesn't matter how successful that person is, there's always something they need help with. I don't care if it's small. Take out the trash. Do something.
Right.
Like, I cannot tell you how many times, even when I would, in my beginning of my career, I will offer successful people and say, can I drive you to the airport?
Yeah, it's amazing. That's brilliant. It's so smart. It's so simple.
So simple. It's so simple. Like you said, can I buy you lunch?
You can come take out my trash, by the way. You can come take me. Therefore, I love it.
Let's just say small thing.
Yeah.
Anyone who's successful, we can all recognize that's a person, an ambitious person. We respect that.
Yes, we do.
I love that.
In fact, maybe see ourselves in that a little bit, too. We love that. So it's okay. So that's how I found my first mentor. And so I worked for Allen for one year, basically for next to nothing. Like, lower than minimum wage. Next to nothing.
A common theme that I hear. So I want everyone to hear that, like, it's a common theme, like you add about. And the working for nothing, like, or interning or just adding value, supporting, not being entitled around it. And then learning, you're getting a huge education from that. I think it's incredible because one thing.
Yeah. Because one thing I've learned is this, that if, let's say you are not making the income that you want, I always tell people, oh, you're in debt. I said you don't have a debt problem, you have an income problem. You don't have a debt problem. Because think about whatever debt that you have. Think of a till me an amount.
Right?
You have 10,000, 20,000, 50, whatever the amount that you have with your current income. Let's say your current income stays the same. How long would it take for you to pay off that debt? A long time. Right now. What if now you could increase your income by one time, 200%, 300%, how much faster you can pay off that debt?
Yeah.
That's so smart. Because so many people are so focused on the lack on what they don't have versus not what they could create.
Like if saving that, like not drinking that coffee in the morning, that makes a difference, you're not generating enough income. Now what then it boils down to the next level is I said then you don't have actually income problem, you have a skill problem.
A skill problem. See, Nada. He didn't say spending problem. He said skill problem.
You have a skill problem. You don't have a spending problem, you have a skill problem. Right. Because then to me, the marketplace is always willing to award you for skills.
Yes.
Right.
So think about not only you today compared to you in the beginning when you were getting started.
Yeah.
The skills that you have today, the success that you have today compared to back then, mindset is a big part of it.
Yes.
Skill sets are probably not a big part of it.
What you're saying is super landing for me and I will share. You don't know this about me, but I was at one point, $1.4 million in debt. That's how I started. And, and I also thought it was a savings, a debt problem. And that's not what solved it. What solved it was the skills and creating new income. So you're absolutely right.
There you go. There you go. So then when it comes to skills. So people want to solve their money problem with just a save or I just like you'd be very frugal and all that. And I'm not saying don't be frugal, I'm just saying that doesn't solve your.
Problem and it's a lack mindset. Then you're going to keep your problem.
So but with skills, because skills you can always get better, right?
Yeah.
That's why I teach like everything I teach within all my social media, I emphasize on high income skills. I always teach people, go develop the high income skills. That is going to solve a lot of the problems that you have.
Right.
How do you think and how did you develop high income skills? I know you got a mentor and you did the right things to get them, but how did you, like, how did you learn that? How did you develop those skills?
Good question. So first, let me define high income skill. What exactly is high income skill? Right. So I define high income skill as a skill that could make you $10,000 or more per month.
Okay.
That's a high income skill. Okay, now notice I did not say high income job.
Yep.
It's a skill set. It's not a job because the job you dictated how much you make is dictated by your manager, your boss, the executive of the company. Right. High income skill is dictated how much you earn is only determined by one thing and that's the value you provide to the marketplace.
Yep.
It's a very different thing.
Right.
And you cannot stack on a job. You can stack on skills.
Mmm.
Okay, you can skip. So my very first high income skill was copywriting, writing ads. That's what my what Alan, my first mentor taught me. He gave me the skill, this high income skill that I could write ads for companies and entrepreneurs. So after that one year of apprenticeship, I started my own one man advertising agency, just me at my home running ads for companies, entrepreneurs. And in my early 20s, I was making $10,000 a month.
Right.
With this one skill that I have. And later on, because I was writing copy for entrepreneurs and companies, now they're asking me back then I'm talking about like full page ad, like direct mail, before even the whole digital era and social media. And a lot of the clients were coming to me and say, hey, Dan, you wrote me this brilliant marketing piece. How do I use it? I said just random list and do this and do this and do this and you mail and then that's what happens, you bring customers. So I don't understand, can you help me out? So then I developed my second high income skill, which is.
Right.
Yeah.
Another $10,000 to my revenue. $10 per month.
Right.
So now I'm making like 20, 25,000amonth as a young guy.
Right?
Yeah.
Now then, think about it. Now I could, now I'm putting money aside, paying off the debt.
Right.
Taking care of my mom. And that changed my life. And that's because I wasn't focusing on, oh man, I'm not making enough how many. I was focusing on what skill sets do I need to develop?
So you were also. What I'm also hearing though, is a big theme between not focusing on scarcity. See, people throw out scarcity mindset, but no one's explained it the way that you just said. So scarcity mindset is that other way of thinking of like just focusing on the debt, what you don't have, and on scrimping, saving, not spending.
That's.
That just keeps you in scarcity. But what you're saying is, is what people talk about that abundant mindset. Like, he's not just saying I'm just gonna woo, woo, and it's gonna come to me. He's saying I'm gonna develop actual skills that can produce 10,000 or more a month because then the debt and the, that does not become a problem anymore. That goes away because.
Exactly. Right. So you think about skill and value. I'll teach, I'll share something very, very important.
Right.
People who are not, let's say anyone is struggling financially.
Yeah.
I always, always ask them this question, what exactly do you do? And they say, I do this and do this. Yeah, I said, the problem is that I said your skill set, it's a commodity, it's not very valuable. So let's say I work at McDonald's. You're flipping burgers. If you quit a job, McDonald's can replace that position very. They can find some like two seconds, right?
Yeah.
Your skill as a commodity is not very valuable. Not that you are not valuable. I'm talking your skill is not very valuable.
Yes, yes.
Right.
It's a very common skill. So Uber driver, don't make a whole lot because it's not a very valuable skill.
Right.
So what you want to do is high income skill has to be valuable, meaning that you are delivering enough value that people are willing to pay your premium price. For example, you know, when I talk about high ticket sales, example, if I can say I'm a closer, okay. I can help a company to generate, let's say closer, a sale for $10,000. I get 10% commission. Why am I getting 10,000, like a thousand dollars commission for one hour of work? Because I've just made the company $10,000. That's a lot of value that I'm bringing in.
Right?
Yeah.
So that's a valuable skill. So what we want to do, if you want to earn more is to be more valuable.
Oh, so good.
Right?
You want to be more valuable. If you want to be the very top earner in your industry, then so not valuable. Not making a whole lot valuable. You're making high income. If you want to be the top, top, not one. I'm talking.001%. You want to be invaluable. You want to be. What do I mean by invaluable? Meaning irreplaceable.
Yeah.
You're unique. It's only you.
You look at the highest income earners in our society. Look, look at how many performers out there. There's only one. Beyonce. Yeah, right. There's only one. You look at anyone in, across any, any field. Athletics, business, entertainment, it doesn't matter. The highest pay earners, they're all invaluable. There's only one of them and they.
Can command their fees. They're not asking what is somebody else charging. What is, what does people like?
They're not competing. There's no competition. There's no competition. That took them years to get there. But that's what people need to understand. You want to earn more, be more valuable. You want to earn like more than anybody else in the industry. You want to become. There's only one of you.
Dan, no one's ever explained this as well. I can see this is why you're invaluable. Like, you really have a really great skill set at teaching and explaining this. I mean, you hear everybody talks about scarcity, mindset about creating value, but no one's explained it like you. I just have. So I think it's incredible and I.
Think it's my passion and that's why it comes through. And, and I have the skill set of, of teaching people to do what I do. And I love it. Because when you love it, you love to teach. You love to conceptualize and think about things where I can take very complex subjects and simplify for anyone to understand. Now, anybody who is listening. Oh, okay. I don't have a dead problem. I need to focus on skills. Then they just need to kind of pick, okay, I'm going to focus on this particular skill set and they can work on it. Once they have that skill set now, a lot of their problems go away.
Yeah, right.
It's too smart.
Yeah.
I didn't focus on the debt. I see. When I focus on increasing my, my improving my skill sets, increasing my income. Guess what? Suddenly the debt is gone. One day you wake up, the God, the debt is gone.
Do you still have to remind yourself? Because I'm assuming that when the debt was Present or when things go wrong, you probably have that conversation initially. Like, do you still have that conversation? Like, you have to shift yourself out of it. Like, okay, I'm focusing on what's not working. I got to shift into something. What is? Or do you ever have that?
Or is it just so. I love, I love your questions. You ask the most profound question. I really do. Like, it's awesome. Thank you. I think in life you go through four stages. First is what I call survival. Stage one, survive, trying to pay the bills. And that's where I was, right? Trying to survive, just be able to have enough food to eat, right? First stage, survival. The second stage is what I call security. Okay, so security. Now you've got a roof over your head right? Now you're okay. You pay the bills, you're okay. You don't have to worry too much. You might have a safe security job. You may be like a middle class, a low middle class. That's cool. I think that's a majority of population, right? Survival and security.
Sure.
Stage one and two, right? Then you have what I call stage three, and that is successful. How do you go from security to success? Now the difference between security and success is this. When you are at the security level, you have everything you need. When you at a success level, you have everything you want. Now you're not just living in a house, you're living in the house that you want, right? You're not just driving a car, you're driving the car that you actually at the hotel that you want. You're traveling the amount that you want, right? That's success. And I think a lot of successful entrepreneurs, including a lot of my friends, they stay stuck at success where success, to me, it is still very much about yourself. Me, me, me, me, me. And that's one more level. And that's what I call significance, which is kind of what I talk about in my book, right? Like the new book. Like they say, unlock it. But some people don't understand the title. It's the master key to wealth, success and significance, right? Which is really talking about my journey, how to transition from success to significance. Now, at the significance level, it's no longer about you because you already taken care of, you've got a good life. Now it's much more about how do you take your skills, how do you take your talents, how do you take your expertise, how do you take everything that you know? And I hate to sound so cliche, but how to make the world truly a better place? What's your legacy?
How to make an impact, how to have a legacy.
How do you impact people's lives?
Right.
So my motive change over evolved over the years. First I was driven by survival.
Yeah.
Then I wanted to have success. I want to have security, then I want to have success. Right. So for a long period of time, my life, I was very driven by success because I didn't know there's another level.
Right. So many people do get stuck there. And that's not fulfilling. Success is not fulfilling. It's never enough.
Like, you know, you want to buy that, buy that car, buy that, whatever it is. Yeah. You go buy that. How long does that last?
Like a day?
Yeah.
Or a week maybe.
Yeah, like. Yeah, maybe like a day, a week, you know, two weeks. And now you're like just, just another thing.
Yeah.
Right.
Now what then you think I can do another next thing.
Right.
And then I need to the next house, I need a next car. And I'm not saying don't get nice thing. I like nice things. Don't get me wrong.
Me too.
What I'm saying is that doesn't work because you are trying to get to fulfillment. Running on a track of achievement, right? Yes, it does not work. So running on a track, success. Good. But you're missing this big piece.
Do you find, Dan? I find. And I'm not the level you are. But I do find that the things that I buy, like the things that I want and I buy, like you talk about the house, the car, whatever, that gives me a moment of satisfaction. But when you do things that are significant, like when you help other people or when you change somebody else's life or you create a movement, I mean, that is rewarding forever. It's just a whole different level of reward.
And it's a very different. It's like in terms of scale, like you buy something that's cool, it's nice.
Right.
But you don't get that deep fulfillment. You don't get that different thing. It's a totally different thing.
Right.
So because that's how human beings, how we are wired. We are wired to help people. Like, we have to. It's what drives us.
Right.
So. So what happens is when you focus on significance, you get the rest.
So good.
You get everything else. But now. But one mistake I do see people make is they say they are at the level of survival. They try to skip. They try to do significant work.
Yes.
Which then it's like I say, always say, don't try to save the world, save yourself first.
Yeah.
I'm with You. And then that's. Because that's also what keeps you in fixed mentality. Because then you're trying to survive and you're helping others. Then you start feeling, you know, there's a disconnect. Like, I do so much and I'm not getting.
Yeah. And how much more people you could help if you are successful.
Right.
I'm with you.
When you're successful, like the Bill Gates of one buff in the world that you could. You could do more. Not just from a wealth perspective, from. Also from an influence perspective.
Yes.
Right. So a lot of things that I could do now with my reach. Because my reach.
Right.
That it's. It's actually a very powerful tool used properly. So then when you focus on significance, you get. You get survival is taken care of. You don't need to worry about security. You don't even need to worry about success. To my business and Nelly, I'm not proud to admit it. For the first, I would say 20 to 30 years old, I was focusing on success.
Yeah.
It was just success. It was ego. It was.
Of course.
Yeah. I want to be. Do you know why? Do you know why?
Why?
Because when I was in school, when I was in high school, I was the invisible kid.
Yeah.
You wanted to stand out.
I wanted to. I want. I want to prove them wrong. That I want to show people I'm actually capable. I'm smart.
Right.
It's. It's all these insecurities. Bully. Now it's a bully in a different way that. Oh, let me, Let me show you how good I am. Let me show you how smart I am. Let me, Let me show all this stuff.
Right.
It's all. This is all BS, right? From 20 to 30 year, that was me. That was how I conduct business. It was like when I do business with someone, there's no win, win. It's win, lose. I win, you lose. Right. I was the guy who would grab all the chips on the table. I'm not leaving anything to you right now. The way I conduct business after 30 years old, because I've learned this in significance. Like I'm sharing everything that I've gone through very personally.
Well, it sounds too. Like significance is a way that I very much believe in, in leading my life is that. And I, and I talk about this a lot to people, is about a win, win situation. So not having it like a win lose, like you just said. And I think in success, we do tend to get competitive and be there. And I was there too. But it's when everybody Wins, everybody wins. It's like there's always a way for everyone to win. So significance really does that. You lift others up to level them up. You, you know, a rising tide lifts all like you, that's what you're doing. And I think it's significance is a great goal. And I, I love that you brought attention to this. So I'm going to ask you about your book in a second. But I do, there is a question I ask everybody and my gosh, I can't believe the hours, like almost flown by. I could talk to you or something if somebody's listening right now. And I asked this to all guests, Dan, so I'm curious your take. If someone's listening right now and they're their own personal rock bottom, maybe they're where you were years ago when you're the partner, the guy you went into business with, you got into $150,000 worth of debt, whatever it was, their own personal rock bottom. Right now they have a failed business, they have health problem, whatever it is. If you were to give them kind of like three quick pieces of advice on how they can start shifting things and level up and create everything from nothing, what would you tell them?
Everything's important and nothing is important.
Ooh.
What does that mean? It means this. You'll hit rock bottom. Whatever scenario, situation that you're in, you feel like this is as bad as it gets, that it cannot get any worse. And there's no help coming from anywhere knowing that if you, any, any, any one of us, if you take it out five, 10 years, just kind of put yourself in the future. Looking back, this would be a tiny, small little thing. It's going to be a tiny, small little thing. You just give yourself that perspective. Think about whatever. When you were a kid, when, when you, when you can't eat that candy, you were crying, you think it's the, the end of the world. Now you're looking back. It's a silly little thing, right? It's exactly what it is. Same thing as an adult. If you think about 10, 20 years from now, you're looking back, this is like nothing. When I say everything's important, meaning everything that we have, the present moment, the relationships, everything you're working on is very important. But knowing also in the big scheme of things, nothing is that important. I don't care if you're Steve Job. We are dust in the universe, right? We're dust.
Yeah.
100, 200, 500 years, it's nothing. So don't, don't get too Hung up on it like, I'm not important. You're not important. Trust me, no one is anyone. Think about that. What's the big deal?
Yeah, yeah.
So you're in debt. What's the big deal? Yeah, right. You know, you can't, you, you can't find. You can't find the girlfriend, you can't find a boyfriend. What's the big deal?
Right?
You know, your business, lost some money, you had a low month. What's the big deal?
Right?
It's not a big deal at all. Oh, well, you know, my video is not getting enough views. You know, it's deep by 5%. What's the big deal?
Somebody gave me a negative comment.
No one. No one. The universe doesn't care. No one cares. Yeah, but forget 10 years. A month later, no one cares.
Yeah.
A day later, no one cares. If you're Facebook, no one remembers. No one cares.
Right.
I go to the ocean. I love live near the ocean. I love just going to the ocean and staring at it for this reason. Like, it reminds me how small I am compared to this big world we have.
I have a VR at home. And I tell people that, you know, this, this a software not game where it takes you to the universe. It's like a right, it's like you can see the star. You can see when you put on something, like, you look at this. Oh, man, what's a big deal? It's like when you put yourself in that perspective, we are so small. It is so funny, right? It's so funny. It gives you a very good perspective in life, I think. Yeah. So I would say to anyone who's hit rock mod, everything is very important. Nothing is that important.
So good. Dan, tell us about your book. Unlock it. Where can they get it? When does it hit stores?
Yeah, you can get it@the unlockitbook.com. unlockitbook.com. And the reason I wrote this book, I've written like 13 books now. And last book that I, that I wrote that I said to myself, I'm not writing on a book because writing a book is a lot of work.
Yes, I always say that. And then I write.
Yeah, you know exactly what I mean. I'm not writing another one. There's no way in hell I'm gonna write another one.
Right?
Here it is.
Here it is. It is. And the reason I wrote it is very simple. My last book, probably the most well known book that I wrote almost 10 years ago. 10 years ago. It's called F you Money. Yeah, that was when I was at the success level.
Okay.
Now I have evolved. And because that book is so popular and people still think of, oh, that's. Yeah, but then the Danlock. That was. But that's not the deadlock today. And I want people to know that, hey, you know what? I have learned a lot. I've evolved a lot. Like, this is what I believe in today.
Right.
Because we evolve as a human being. And I want people to get the message. Because I didn't. Because of my influence, the reach that we have. I didn't want people to just stay and thinking, oh, that's what Dan's message is. No, that's not. That was what my message was.
Yeah, I get that.
It's not my message today. So I think that needs to be an updated version of who I am today. What reflects my philosophies, the way I view life. And that's why I wrote this book, is really to answer that question.
Right?
So, Dan, you said earlier about changing your environment. And I want everyone listening to, please go get his book. Because part of changing your environment is taking in new information and taking in the right information. And I can't wait to read this and dive in, because I'm all about this conversation, everything that you said, and I'm dying to learn more. So unlock. But unlock it.
Yes.
Everywhere on social. My gosh. He's everywhere on social. So find him there. Dan Locke on Instagram. Your bigger. Your place you're most at, or where do you want them finding you there?
I was Instagram. Yeah, Instagram. We are. We're pretty big.
1.1 million followers on Instagram. Great content over there.
So definitely YouTube. A lot of people find me on YouTube and YouTube. We have. Yeah, we have over a thousand videos on YouTube. A lot of things I talk about. And Facebook too, but any one of those channels would work. And I always tell people, like, don't. Don't just go there, like, follow me. It doesn't mean anything to follow me. It's. Look at that and say, hey, what are some things I can learn to apply in your own life.
Yes.
Right.
Because you're not gonna see. You're not gonna follow someone and get to where they're at.
Totally.
Right.
You can learn from someone and say, hey, what's some things I can learn to improve my skill set, my situation, just little bit. I think that's. That's what my goal is. Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
And if you are listening, if this. If this episode resonated with you, if it helped you, please, you know, tag Dan tag me. Tell us how it changed your life.
I love to see those stories. I love, love love to see those stories.
Amazing. Thank you so much. Dan. Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review. I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable. And come interact with me over on Instagram @nataliejofit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.
