095: How To Make Sh*t Happen with Sean Whalen

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. With a gun in his mouth and a bottle of booze to his side, Sean Whalen finally had hit rock bottom. You see, Sean Whalen was very successful at a young age. In fact, he was a self made multi millionaire in his early 20s. But he knew very little about business because he didn't have a father, a mentor or a coach ever around. So he made a lot of mistakes. Mistakes that led him to a loss of two twelve and a half million dollars, bankruptcy and a loss of his marriage and family. Now, like many juggling a lot, Sean was always connected to the office and disconnected at home. He would take work calls 247 and even argued with his wife. The belief that his hard work ethic was good for their relationship. But when everything started to crumble for him, he says he made every bad possible decision you could make with business and his relationship. Now, trying to keep everything under control, he worked harder and harder and harder because he tried to save everything. The saddest part that he was always missing, he felt that he was never working hard enough. Eventually things got crazy, out of control and he was forced to drop everything. Forced into surrender. Now, in his darkest rock bottom moment, a gun in his mouth, an empty bottle of alcohol to his side, he truly finally surrendered and asked for help. Today, Sean Whalen is a massively sought after motivational speaker, founder of multiple companies including apparel and technology. But his role as founder and CEO of Lions Not Sheep is closest to his heart. He's also the founder of the newest market disruption, the App Meters. Join in today and learn exactly how Sean Whalen leveled up and created everything from nothing. I'm so excited today to talk to Sean Whalen. I've been stalking him on Instagram. I love everything he stands for, especially because he's so disruptive and he speaks his truth. And I know in the world of people pleasing and wanting everyone to like us, that's a touchy thing for people, but he really got my attention with it. He stands for what he stands for and he changes lives because of it. And I couldn't wait to talk with him today and dive into what makes him tick and how he became him. Hi, Sean. Thank you for being here.

Hello. Thank you for having me.

I'm so excited to chat with you today. And he has got a T shirt on. You all can't see if you're listening to the audio, but it says lions, not sheep. And that's his big initial company, right? That's what you've focused on?

Yeah, yeah. I went through kind of my midlife. I don't know what a midlife crisis really is, but if it means like, burning your entire world to the ground, leaving a marriage, leaving a business, that's what I did. And in the process of that, this came to me and it's become. It just started off literally as a T shirt and now has become kind of a global phenomenon in my coaching and consulting and everything that I do. So it was me, how I felt and coming back from this meltdown, and now it's become this big thing.

So, okay, so I have a million questions, but I'm going to try to not ask you a million questions. But I want to start. Let's start with that, because you just said something which is so important that in the middle of chaos and everything falling apart is when you figured out basically your purpose and your calling is what I heard when you take us back a little bit to that. What was going on then and who were you before all that was happening?

So I was really. I grew up in a single parent home. My parents divorced when I was an early teenager. You know, I grew up in D.C. and mom moved to Utah because mom was Mormon and dad was Catholic and a lot of chaos as a young kid. And I've always been a hustler, quote unquote, an entrepreneur. And, you know, to skip the whole story, I found myself really successful at a young age. And I was making a lot of money in my early 20s. And I found myself in this box that I like to talk about that we've been programmed to be in right when we're little kids. It's like, sit down, quiet down, slow down. This is what normal life looks like. You go to school, then you go to another school, and then you get a job, and then you get a wife and a thing. And before you know it, you have a minivan and a house and a couple of dogs. And this is what normal life is. And I found myself there. And I was really successful financially, excuse me, at a young age. And I had three kids, the house, everything that success looked like, you had the checklist done. I fit the box, right? This normal box that we're trying to put our own kids into that we think society is accepting of. I found myself there. And at 30 years old, I kind of woke up and I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Why am I doing this? I have all of these things, but why am I not happy? And I found myself in a really dark place, and I had a midlife. Call it what it is. I literally just. I talk about in my book how I felt like I was juggling bowling balls, like I was trying good dad, the good husband to be here, be at the office. You know, when I was at the office, I felt like I needed to be at home when I was at home, like, I needed to be connected to the office. And it was just chaos in my brain and in my world and my life. And I eventually just. I just dropped all the bowling balls. I walked away from everything and found myself not in this place where I was like, you know, how do I make money and how do I do this? And life is whatever. It was. Like, why the hell am I even here? Like, why am I even doing. Why am I doing any of this? Why am I running this business? Why am I. What is my purpose? Yeah, not in this business or in this marriage, but, like, on this planet. Like, why am I even here? And it was a really, really, really interesting period of time. And I'm finding more and more and more this is where a lot of people really are today.

Yeah. So it's interesting. So sometimes when people are in that chaos, and I know what you're talking about because I've been there several times in my life where it's like, everything, and you just find yourself checking off the list and wanting to fix it all. I find that there's, like, a theme sometimes people, they just literally try to control it all and go. Just add more to the list and manage it. And then some people check out with alcohol, drugs, numbing, whatever, just to escape it. And then some people do what. Basically what I see is like, you surrender. You're like, okay, I just. I'm done. I don't want any of this. Like, what am I here for? Yeah, how did you get to that, that realization? Was it just like a. Like, were you forced into that, where I have to just get rid of all this? Or did somebody advise you on that? How did you get there? Because some people are stuck not there.

I literally just quit. I quit. And I don't know if I like that. Word quitting. But, you know, we were all. I mean, anybody listening to this is of the age where we were all raised the exact same. I don't care if you're a millennial, a Gen Xer, a baby. It doesn't matter. We were all raised and programmed to lie. Now, that's a hard thing for people to hear, but when you think back to when you were a kid, from when you were a small child, this is what normal looks like. This is how you behave. Sit down, quiet down, slow down. When you're in school, if you have to go to the bathroom, you have to raise your hand and ask to go to the bathroom. When you think about that elementary school, middle school, high school, if you got in trouble like I did as a kid, because you were rambunctious and running around, the principal would call your parents and say, hey, Sean was being, you know, a little troublemaker in school. And then when you got home, you got in trouble, too. So it was like.

Oh, you froze. Hang on, Sean, you froze. I don't know if you can hear me. Wait, Sean. Sorry. You froze there for a minute. So I. You were talking about getting programmed in school, and then it froze. So we just got to go back.

To still have me.

Yeah, I have you now. Sorry that sometimes that happens on the WI Fi.

No. No worries. Uh oh, I lost you. There we go. You know, I found myself there, and I found myself looking at that box, saying, I've done everything that I was supposed to do. Why am I not happy?

Yeah.

And I realized that, like, my entire life, I had been doing as I was told. I built this business the way I was told. I got married, I had the kids, I did the whole thing, and I never did anything that I wanted. And, you know, we. You get onto social media nowadays, and it's like, hustle, grind, hustle, grind, hustle, grind. And then at some point in time, you'll be happy. Then at some point in time, you'll reach this euphoric moment of financial stability where then you can enjoy life. But until then, it's like, you've got to be miserable. And I was there. I did that. I was working our days, we traveled. But I'd be in line at Disneyland on my BlackBerry. Kind of dates me a little bit, but I'd be on my BlackBerry, you know, trying to connect with work and get these deals done. And my wife's mad because I'm there, and she's like, be here with us. And I'm like, well, how do you think I Can afford to be here.

I gotta be there. Oh, I've been so there. Sean, I totally hear this. Yeah.

I got to the point where I was like, no one understands this. Like, everybody around me was a yes man. You know? I mean, you think about it now, Anybody listening to this, when you ask your friends, how you doing? Most of your friends were like, yeah, I'm good.

Yeah.

When really you're not good inside, it's chaos. You're like, dude, I don't know what to do. What do I do? I'm just, ah. But we don't tell the truth, and we've literally been programmed to lie.

Yeah.

I found is, like, telling all of these lies that I was good and this was normal, and I felt okay. It was just eating me alive, literally, until I just was so angry. But I didn't know what I was angry at. I wasn't angry at my wife. I wasn't angry at God. I wasn't angry at the market or anything else. It was just like, what the fuck is happening?

Yeah.

And I just. I walked away from everything. I literally disconnected from, like, every single person that I knew. I went into a bad, but at the same time, a beautiful spot where I had to figure out who the hell I really was and why I was really doing all of this. Like, why was I really here? Was I here for the market? Was I here for the cars and the watches and the Rolexes and the family? And why was I here? And it was a really, really, really cool experience for me. I call it my wilderness, if you will.

Yeah.

I found myself just trying to figure out who the hell I really was. And as I looked inside, I realized I was a liar. I was just a liar. I had been programmed to lie. I never told anybody the truth. And it wasn't a manipulative thing. Like, you know, it's raining outside when it was really sunny, it was just, who the hell is Shawn Whalen?

Yeah.

What do I really feel? What do I really love? What do I really want? And when someone would ask you, you know, how you're doing? You don't talk about real stuff. You're like, I'm good.

Yeah. You say, I'm fine. It's good. Yeah.

Just like you're saying, we have a prescription drug epidemic for a reason. More men right now are killing themselves than ever before, including the Great Depression. More men killed themselves in 2018 than any other time in the history of this country. Why? You know what I mean? When you stop and think about it, it's not because there's a lack of women. It's not because there's a lack of alcohol. It's not because there's a lack of money. It's because literally, we've been programmed to lie. How do we tell the truth? Because if you tell the truth, then you're crazy. It's just like when you were a little kid. You go outside of that box and it's like, whoa, pump the brakes. Let's give him some medicine to fix that. Yeah, slow down. Right, well, let's give him some antidepressants. He must be super depressed. And it's like, no, dude, I'm not. I just. What am I doing? You know? That's where I found myself.

I love this so much because we. Before we started recording, we were talking about how the word authentic has gotten, like, off track. Everyone's wanting to be authentic, but really what you're describing is what I felt too, at that when I got to my place, you said, liar. I said it fake. Like we were the opposite of. That's the real opposite of authentic. Like, we just weren't being any. We didn't even know who we were. So I love that you just shared that, and I totally relate to what you're saying. And I love that you kind of. You just cleaned house so you could go take the time, which I think so many people don't ever do. They just find the next, the next, the next, and to replace it.

I mean, we sedate with success. We sedate with work. We sedate with, you know, gated neighborhoods and big houses and cars and the whole thing. And it's like, that's what we're filling this void with. Nothing wrong with any of that. Don't get me wrong. Like, there's nothing wrong with success. I'm very much an advocate for creating financial abundance and stuff. But the real question is, who are you? What do you really want? One of the things, as a coach, and it's fascinating to me, I've asked literally thousands of people this question. Millionaires, billionaires, this question. And it's probably one of the hardest questions for human beings to answer. And I couldn't answer it at the time. The question is, what do you want? Officially? We're like, well, I want freedom, right? Well, dude, you're free to. I'm free to stab somebody in the face with if I wanted to. I'm free to go do whatever the hell I want. I can run down my street naked if I want. There's no one stopping me from doing that. Well, I want, you know, security. Well, what does security mean? There's not. There aren't terrorists running inside of your house. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, these superficial things like, what the hell do you really want? Yeah, that's a freaking profoundly difficult question for people. And I went through an 18 month journey trying to answer that question. And that was really what changed my life and started this course and got me to where I am today.

So when. Because I think a lot of people also hear, they say, okay, I get it, I need to figure out what is it they want. And then they get stuck on I don't know what I want. But what you just said, which I hope people really picked up on, is it took you months. This was like an 18 month journey. Not, you know, you decided in the next day, you knew, so you had to be okay. What I'm hearing with being in the unknown to figure it out.

Yeah. One of the, one of the most profound questions, and this is what I love about, you know, what I do and having conversations with people like you is when someone says, I hear all the superficial stuff like, well, I want this or I want to be happy. Everybody says, I want to be happy. What the hell does that even mean? One of the most profound answers to that question, to that question is, I don't know. And what's really cool is like, we're building lie upon lie, layer upon layer. And when you stop and say, I don't know, that's such a beautiful thing because now you can go into it. Now you can journey, now you can figure some things out.

Yeah.

Look at life and say, I don't really know what I want. I'm 30, 35, 40, 40 years old. I don't really know. I've done everything I was told to do. I don't really know what I want. And that's a beautiful thing because now you can build something from there. You know what I mean?

Sean, do you think people. Because I think sometimes people go to the, I don't know, space, but they are still trying to control and fix it. Like they're. They think it's the seminar or it's the shaman, or it's the. It's the thing.

Yeah.

Can you speak a little into that? Like, did you. Were you going through personal development courses and seminars or were you literally just. I'm on my own, not talking to anyone.

So I burned everything essentially to the ground. And I was super angry. And I did what everybody else did. I sedated with women. I Sedated with alcohol because I was hurting so bad. And this is something that. Talking about masculinity and the men thing is we're not. We're not supposed to cry. We're not supposed to do. The alpha is just beat on your chest and go freaking, make a ton of money and fucking. That's like this alpha thing, and that's completely wrong. It's completely false. I didn't know how to reach out to somebody. I didn't know how to ask for help, because we don't ask for help. So I spent all of this time in this really destructive pattern until one night, and I talk about this in my book, I put a 9 millimeter in my mouth and I almost killed myself. And that was the darkest night of my life. And I'll never forget as long as I live. I had burned my marriage to the ground and. And burned literally everything to the ground. And I remember calling my ex wife one night and saying, hey, I need to talk. You know that feeling you have, like, where you feel like there's like an elephant sitting on your chest, like you can't breathe?

Yeah.

Like the weight of the world, like just that anxiety, that. Like that massive level of anxiety. I felt like that. And I called her and I said, I just need to talk, right? I had this idea, like, dude, what if I made a mistake? What if I did everything wrong? Like, what if I should have just stayed in this state and not done what I did? And she had her boyfriend there at our old house at the time. I remember hearing him say, is that Sean? And I heard him say, hang up the phone on him. And it was like the ego in me was like, look, motherfucker, here's the ego. But then it was just this experience where it had to happen. And she ended up hanging up the phone. She's like, I can't talk to you right now. And I'm like, look, you don't understand. I'm in a really dark place and I need somebody to talk to.

Yeah.

And she hung up the phone. And that night I wrestled with why I should or shouldn't stay in life. And I thought to myself, literally, maybe if I killed myself, it would be better for my kids. Because then she'd go find normal. She'd find a dude who had a 9 to 5 and had a regular paycheck and had a regular deal. And, you know, it would be normal life. Because here I was, this idea of chaos, right? I remember waking up the next morning with this gun next to my head. And a bottle of whiskey on my stand. And that was the night where I was like, I don't know how to fix this.

Wow.

There wasn't anything wrong other than the fact that I was angry.

I just got major chills, though, because, like. Like, that's the ultimate example of control. To surrender like you, that if you had killed yourself so your wife. It was the ultimate way to control in a. In a way like, okay, I'm taking control now. This is what's going to happen. But you did the complete opposite. You surrendered.

The next day is when I did something that I'd never done before. I reached out for help. It wasn't an addiction thing. I mean, when our marriage ended, it wasn't because of infidelity or drugs or whatever. We just emotionally went two different ways and didn't know how to fix it. And I reached out, and I reached out to a buddy of mine. I thought coaching and consulting and stuff was a total joke at the time. I was like, why the hell would I pay somebody? Like, I've been a multimillionaire. What are you going to teach me? Right?

It's part of that mask, that ego mask. Yep.

Yeah. I reached out to a buddy of mine, and I'm like, dude, I need help. I don't know. I don't know how to not be angry. And when I went into the journey of coaching and trying to understand myself, it wasn't to learn business. It wasn't to learn how to get in shape or whatever. It was like, I'm angry, but I don't know why I'm angry. And I ended up hiring my first coach and joining my first mastermind and group, which is why I was such a massive advocate for coaching and finding mentors. And that's where, like, the real hard work started. Because he had challenged me to do some things that I did not want to do. They were radically, radically, radically vulnerable. And really, that's what changed my life.

Like, what, Sean? Because I know some people hear that word. They don't know what that means.

Like, my divorce was nasty. I was angry, she was angry. We were just bitter. Right? You see this all the time now. I mean, most people don't get divorced, and they're like, hey, we're good. It's just, bam, bam. We just want to hurt each other because we're hurting. What do hurt people do? They hurt people, right? I'm hurting. So I wanted her to hurt. She was hurting, so she wanted me to hurt. And it was just chaos for, like, two years. And the very first thing he had me do, right after I hired him, he said, I want you to write her a letter of appreciation. And I'm like, look, you don't understand. She can buy a bus tomorrow. I'd be fine with that. Like, I'm okay with that. That's how angry I was. And it took me three months to muster up the courage, if you will, or check the ego to even do that.

Wow.

I remember writing that letter. You know, it was a long handwritten letter. Hey, you know, you're a good mom. I hope you choke on your food and die. Right?

Right.

Thanks for being a great mom to the kids. I hope you get by a bus. Like, it was not real and it wasn't authentic and it wasn't genuine because I had so much anger. But it had to happen because that was that trigger point. That was that starting point for me. And it was radically difficult. And over a 14 month period, that was one of my first challenges is he's like, I want you to go from this negative state and thinking negatively and speaking negatively to I want you to only share positive things. And so text messages, emails, letters of appreciation to her for 14 months before she ever even said thank you.

Wow.

I mean, we had, you know, restraining orders against each other and only communicated through lawyers and just all kinds of chaos. And it took me 14 months. And I'd never been committed to anything for that long. Right. Like, people ask me all the time, like, shawn, I have chaos in my divorce. And how did you build what you built? I did the hardest thing I'd ever done, which is typically we say something to somebody and we expect this return for agreements. Right. Assuming that they're gonna, like, love us back. Well, I was saying these positive things and she didn't say anything back. And I'm like, you know, I will fuck this, then forget. Let's just be mad at each other then. But it was that journey of 14 months, and truly, it wasn't for her and it wasn't for us. It was for me.

It was. You had to practice that. You had a. You had to actually practice being okay with it. Doesn't matter how she's responding. This is for. This is incredible.

Took that period of time to do that and to get to that place where she even acknowledged it and said thank you. And that's kind of how my whole social media journey started, was in that whole experience. And, you know, I'll never forget, like, we used to pick up and drop off our kids from a police station. Wow. I'd pull in, and she'd pull in, and there'd be a cop in the middle, and we couldn't get out. The kids had to walk around the car, and it was really, really, really bad. And I remember through this entire process, things started to soften and slow down a little bit, and. And then we got to the point where, like, I could go to her house and pick up the kids, and she could pick up, you know, the kids from my house. And I pulled up to her house one day and, you know, went to go pick up my kids, and the boy that she had been talking. Her boyfriend at the time is now her husband. They ended up getting married, which, you know, you talk about the mind stopping the whole deal. And they had a new baby. And my kids came to the door one particular time. Dad come in and see the baby. And I'm like, no, get in the car. Let's go. I'm not doing that right. And she ended up coming to the door saying, yeah, it's okay if you come in. And this is like, the first time in two and a half years.

Wow.

I remember walking in and God bless my daughter. She goes over and grabs the baby, brings the baby over to me, and I'm like. She's like, here, dad. And I'm like, ah, what am I doing? No, too much. And I sat there and I held the baby, and I ended up taking a picture of it. Just a selfie of not of it, but, you know, the baby.

Yeah.

And, you know, I sat down that night when I got home with the kids. They were getting ready for bed, and I just. I did something that I had never really done before. I jumped on Facebook and I shared this picture, and I told the truth. Wow. I sat down and I just poured my heart out, and I didn't blame anybody. For the first time, I just sat down and said, dude, you guys have no idea how much this picture means to me, number one. But how big of an asshole I was, how mean things I said. Because I was so angry. Like, I literally saw no light. It was just pure darkness in my life. And I was a dick. I said things and I did things to hurt other people because I was hurting. And I poured my heart out. And I remember going to bed, and, you know, I had a couple hundred friends at the time. And I remember waking up and that picture had a 1k next to it. And I was like, wow, what does this mean? And for the next two weeks, over 10,000 people an hour liked that post. And I don't know what viral really means, but that was the true essence of viral. It went on to literally reach millions and millions of people. It had hundreds of thousands of comments and likes. I went from like 300 friends to almost 50,000 followers in a matter of 13 days.

Oh, my gosh.

And I had all these people messaging me, going, hey, man, you got it figured out? Can you help me? I'm like, whoa.

You're like, I'm barely figuring it out. Yeah.

That was the first time I told the truth.

Yeah. See, if I.

And that's what people were attached to. It wasn't the glitzy and the glamoury and the thing. It was like I poured my darkness out, like, my soul. Like. Like the shit I was scared to talk about for 30 years prior to that. And I was like, wait a second, why are people attached to this? Like, what does this mean? And. And two things happened to me. Number one, I found that the people were really attached to it. Like, people really resonated with darkness. And there weren't very many people talking about the darkness. Number two, I felt better. I felt better by sharing this. It was really vulnerable, Quote, unquote vulnerable. It was raw because it was the scary shit. And there were tons of her friends that were on that post that were like, yeah, he was a dick. Yeah, I remember when he did. There was a lot of people, like, throwing arrows at me. But it was like, I felt better. I felt better telling me, telling the truth, you know, and the flip side to that, the benefit to that, the beauty of that is that it resonated with me, millions and millions and millions of people, and has kind of catapulted my story into this social media world where I've literally reached almost a billion people with my videos and my posts and stuff like that. But there, it's just fascinating how the whole process has worked for me, you know?

You know, it's so awesome, Sean. And anyone listening, that's. That is always the case when people tell their truth. Like, they're act the thing, they're scared to death to share the thing that they're trying to cover up with fancy copywriting. When you just tell your truth, that's what people connect with you around 100% and you can't.

I hear people say all the time, okay, I'm gonna try and be more vulnerable. I'm gonna try and be more authentic. The reality is you either are or you aren't. There is no try. You can't manipulate truth. You can't butter it up. You can't smooth it out. It's dark, it's fucking raw, it's nasty, it's messy, it's scary. It's messy as shit. And when you try and water that stuff down, it's not real. And people know that it's not real. You know that it's not real. And I just. I like. You use the word surrender, which I really like. I just surrender to the fact that, like, inside of me, there's light and there's dark inside of me, and there's light and dark inside of everybody. And I finally reached that point in sharing the story where I realized, like, I am who I am, right? Whether you like me or don't like me, whether you like my political views or don't like my political views or my parenting style or this or this or this, it's who I am. And I finally, for the first time in my life, at 30 something years on this earth, I started to accept who the hell I really am and talk about who I really was and what was really inside of me. And it was liberating. You know, I do a lot of speaking and what's really funny is I ask people, you know, how many of you have screwed up before, right? And everybody raises their hand. I'm like, how many of you are like me and like, you're double fisting. I've screwed up a ton of things in life, right? Like, we're not afraid of failing. When you ask people, like, well, I don't want to start the business, or I don't want to share the story because I'm afraid of failing. Like, no one's afraid of failing because we've done it so many times. We've screwed so many things up in life, it's not even funny. What people are deathly afraid of is being judged. Yeah, deathly afraid of being judged for who they really are. Because if you share your darkness, if you share your truth, if you share what you really feel, how you really feel, people will judge that. And I tell people all the time, like, it doesn't matter where you go, what you do, what you say, what you earn. If you're fat, people are going to say it's because you're a lazy piece of shit. If you're ripped, it's because you got to be taking steroids, you got to be on drugs. If you're poor, it's because you're undisciplined, you're bad, right? If you're rich, you have to be ripping people off and you're a snake oil salesman, no matter where you go in life, people are going to judge you.

Yeah.

What I found is, like, as I started sharing who the hell I really was, I felt better. I had to go through all of this stuff to realize that, like, that was the game. In order for me to be a good father, I want to feel as good as I possibly can. If I'm holding all of this stuff and harboring all of these things make me a good leader, it doesn't make me a good father. Right. And so to me, it was just like, as I started sharing more and more and more of my story and more of what was inside, so many people resonated with it, but I felt better.

Yeah. Do you find? I find, I think that people, because I've had a lot of people that have big followings will ask me, like, how do you deal with haters? And I think, like, haters don't affect me when I'm telling the truth, because when I'm speaking and I wonder if you feel this way when I'm really speaking my truth and what I have and believe with conviction, and then it doesn't matter when someone doesn't agree with me or they don't like what I'm saying. But now if I'm trying to do something like a marketing way or. And then I'm getting attacked, that would bother me. And I believe that people are bothered when they're not telling their actual truth.

I don't believe in haters. I don't think they exist. I don't think trolls exist. I don't think haters exist. Because really, if you think about it, how many people that you don't like do you follow? Zero.

Right.

Zero. You don't spend time engaging with people that you don't care about. Whatever. Whatever. So for me, if you're following me and you're talking shit, fan means I have real estate in the brain. If you're following me, if you're following me simply to talk shit, you're just simply living where I was living seven years ago. And you're completely living a lie. And that's the truth. Because at the end of the day, I don't follow people and engage with people that I don't like. And the second part of that, if you think about it, how many people. And you've heard this before, but it's true. I was talking to Andy Frisella this morning. How many people that are doing really well in life, whether it's emotionally, psychologically, physically, financially, how many of those people do you see talking shit to other people? Zero.

Right?

Zero. I went through a bankruptcy. I've never had a single millionaire talk shit about my bankruptcy. I've had five professional MMA fights. I got knocked out in two of them. I knocked three dudes out. How many people. How many MMA fighters have ever made fun of me for getting knocked out? 0. Who makes fun of me? Who talks the most shit? The people that have never had a fight.

Yeah.

Think about it. Like, the people that are talking smack are the people that are the most scared. Those are the people that have the most to hide. They're the ones lying the most. Because your vulnerability, your openness, triggers the shit out of them, because they don't want to do that. They don't want to go there. So their natural reaction is to do what? Poke at you. Yeah, talk smack about you. So, to me, I don't believe in haters. Like, I love when people come on and they talk smack or they talk trash or, oh, dude, you're making money, but you went through a bankruptcy before. I'm like, yeah, like, Google my name. I've talked about this for seven years, eight years, nine years. Like, what are you trying to get at, bro? You know what I mean? It's the fact that you're broke and that you don't want to put in the work to get where you want to go financially, so it's way easier for you to talk shit. And this is what holds a lot of people back, is you have to understand that will come no matter where you go. You know this. In the fitness world, you could get shredded and ripped, and people are going to talk trash about you.

Oh, yeah. And you can't. And if you. If you're not shredding and ripped, then you're. You're. You've quit, you're. Whatever. It's always. It's always something bad. Yeah. Yeah.

No matter where you go. And so that's why for me and my clients and what I do with lions, not sheep, I'm like, you understand something, man. Like, when you wake up in the morning and you go to bed in the morning, it's you. It's your game. You know, when you check out of this life, when you. I mean, it's. This is your shot. My shot. Your shot. We got one shot at this. And if I live my life based off the rules that I was told to live by, like I was when I was a kid, right? When I stay inside of this box and do it for other people, that's why I get depressed, that's when I get anxious. I mean, when you think about people that are dealing with anxiety, they're focused on the future. People that are dealing with depression, they're focused on the past. Right. You can't change either of those. So at the end of the day, who are you really? What do you really want? Are you living the life you want to live or you're doing it based off of what? Some person made fun of you that lives on the other side of the planet and they made a comment on Facebook, that person is completely irrelevant to your life, yet you're living a life based off of what other people are telling you. Normal is insane.

What would you tell somebody that stuck there? Because there's definitely people listening that are those haters and judging and they're also the ones being judged. And in that people pleasing rut, what would you tell them? What wakes them up so they stop.

Well, to tell the haters, to tell the trolls.

Well, but I think sometimes it's the same person. That same person that's hating is also that same person stuck on people pleasing. Like they're, they've got the same thing both directions. They judge and they people, please. They go together.

There's some really interesting concepts like we can go down the rabbit hole on and talk about if you want, like selfishness. I'm very selfish. If you look at like my life, like I'm literally hundreds of clients around the world and I'm helping a lot of people and have put more content out online than most people that I know. Like, because I want to. But I'm very selfish. Meaning I get up, I put me first. And this is a very, very difficult concept for a lot of people to understand is I talk about leading from the front, right? There's a reason when you get on an airplane, like the very first thing they tell you is if this thing goes down, the first thing you have to do and these yellow masks pop out of the ceiling is put your own mask on. The way we've been programmed. The way you've been programmed? The way I've been programmed is, okay, I'm going to put my kids mask on first. Guys who are listening, I'm going to put, I put my wife's mask on first and then my kids and then me. Well, here's a news flash for you, bro. There's no air to breathe. And because you made that choice, now all of you die. I'm very much a firm believer and one of the mantras and one of the things that I talk about with lions, not sheep is the king eats first. Something I talk about. We've had people literally tattoo it on their body. The king eats first, and then for the women, the queen eats first. You have to put yourself first. If you don't put yourself first and you're drowning, how can you help your children? How can you lead your children? How can you lead your business? This is what I did. I put everybody else first in my life. My kids, my wife, my employees. I mean, I would sacrifice for everybody else. And I was drowning. If I'm drowning, how the hell do I help anybody?

Yeah, you're right.

Planes going down and there's no air to breathe. How do I help somebody 30 rows back? I can't because I'm dead. Like, you have to, like, plant your flag in the ground and say, fuck this. It's me. Like, my journey as a father, I want to be the best father that I can. And if I'm fat and broken and miserable because I'm, quote, unquote, trying to do it for my kids, I do this for my kids. What the hell am I showing my kids? What am I showing them? That life controls me or I control life.

Yeah.

So for me, I look at the quote, unquote haters and the trolls and everybody else, and I'm just sharing with people my journey through this social media platform and my website and everything else that I do. But I realized, like, I put my mask on first every single morning.

Yeah.

Like, no questions about it. Like, my morning rituals, what I do with my life. It's me first.

Yeah.

And you can. People can save all their biblical scriptures and everything else because I've read all of it. I got it. Like, I was an ordained minister. I know the whole game. Think about it from a pure, simple, realistic, like, human nature. If you're dead or dying.

Yeah.

Can't help anybody.

Yeah. You're right.

Must put yourself first. And that's probably one of the hardest things for my clients and for people that I talk to to do, because that's difficult. It's not how we were programmed. It's not how we were raised. It's not what our religions taught us. It's not what our parents taught us. It's not what our society teaches us. Do, do, do, do, do for everybody else and then do for you. But the problem is most people can't. And that's the reason our society and our culture is the way that it is.

You know, I talk a lot about people pleasing and Judging because they, I feel like that is what is creating that problem with that. Because if you're. That is why people think being selfish is wrong. Because they are trying. They're afraid of being judged and they're afraid of people pleasing but boiling down. The way you just explained, I don't know anyone could disagree. Because you're right. If you're not here to provide, take care, lead, then how, how are you helping others?

Yeah, it's true. I mean there's, there's no. I talk about this in my book. I mean there's no nobility in being broke now that's going to trigger a lot of people. But there's no nobility in being this poor way for, oh, you know, I'm just sacrificing my life for everybody else. If you believe in God, which I do, that's not what God put us here for.

Right.

He didn't put us here to be these miserable, fat broke creatures. He put us here to fucking thrive.

Yeah.

At the end of the day, like I want to show my children what's possible in life, but if I'm living a miserable existence, they're going to watch me. You know, one of the things I talk about all the time is I can, I can tell them, I can tell I have three kids. I have a 16 year old, a 13 year old and a 10 year old girl. Boy, boy. I can tell them how to go be good members of society. I can tell my boys how to be chivalrous or I can open the door for someone. I can say, yes sir, yes ma', am, please and thank you. Right. Like this is the beauty of the social media game and why trolls and haters, they just don't matter because at the end of the day they're choosing to follow me and they're watching what I do. And so for me, I realized part of my takeaway in going through this whole experience and burning my world to the ground is I did everything for everybody else and I lost. I didn't know who I was, I didn't know why I was here, I didn't know purpose and all of these other things. And it took me burning everything to the ground and realizing like, shit, man, I don't have my own mask on. And once I started putting my mask on, life started changing and I started getting better results. I started feeling better, looking better, and I was like, shit, I have a better relationship with my ex wife now that I put my mask on. Yeah, literally hundreds of thousands, millions of people that watch the messages and the Whole thing. But I get up and I do. Me first. I mean, I joke about it, but I'm serious. Like, if Jesus knocked on my door at 8 o', clock, I'd be like, yo, you need to come back at 9. I might wake up until 9am that's my time.

Yeah.

Ruthlessly committed I am to me. Because if I wake up and it's chaos and slamming coffee and get the kids out the door and then I go to work, it's just this. This vicious circle of chaos.

Yeah. And I believe, Sean, had you not burned everything to the ground and had this awakening on your own, I believe that sometimes it happens to you. You would have had an accident or you would have gotten sick. It would have forced you to that spot. Because I believe everything you're talking about right now is why we're here. Why else are we here if we're not here to live our truth and our purp. Speak it. Like, why else?

I totally agree. I was teaching a seminar here in Salt Lake last year, and one of the things that I'm really fascinated by now and the conversation that I love having is about purpose. There's literally thousands of books that have been written on purpose, right? How to find your purpose. What is your purpose? How to find your purpose. And there's so many people listening to this right now. When you ask them that, what's your purpose? They don't know. I'm trying to find my purpose, right? Looking for my purpose. I'm going forward, trying to find this euphoric reality or moment that causes me stress. If you think about it, people are legitimately stressed out because they don't know their purpose. And so they're on this mission, looking and finding and looking and finding and asking and asking and asking, asking and googling. And it's like taking in all of this information. Let me paint a really simple picture for you. It has nothing to do with money. It has nothing to do with fame. I could give you a billion dollars and say, change yesterday. You can't. You literally can't change yesterday. Here's a billion dollars change tomorrow. Oh, Shawn. Well, I'd go help all these people. If you're dead by dinner, how the fuck do you change tomorrow? You can't. So it's not money. So the real question is, like, what is purpose? And what I found about two years ago in studying and starting to meditate and doing different things is like, the only thing I have control over, the only thing is this one moment. And so when you stop and think about it. Like, what if your purpose, men, women, rich, poor, fat, skinny, I don't give a damn who you are, whether you're gay, whether you're straight, whether you're black, whether you're white. What if your purpose is to literally live in a singular moment? Like be present in every conversation that you're having as you're hiking, as you're working. Like, being fully present right here, right now. Because we're literally programmed to be thinking about the future or worrying about the past. That's where most people are. That's why we have so many people on drugs, trying to sedate, because we find so much anxiety and stress in the future, but you can't do anything about that. People that have five year plans and 10 year plans, dude, if you're dead in six months, who the fuck cares about any of that?

Yeah.

And my question is, are you present right now? Like when you're playing Connect 4 with your kids, Are you on your phone? Are you tomorrow, yesterday? Like, what if? Truly your purpose, your purpose, my purpose, everyone's listening to purpose is to literally find a way to be completely and fully present in this moment. Because this is where peace is found.

Oh, so brilliant. So brilliant. I love this. And anyone challenging that. If you think of the last time you were on a roller coaster or something, that was like super fun and you were present, like, that's when you're living. I mean, that is living, right?

I mean, think about it. From everything from conversation to making love to anything. Like watching a sunset. If you're watching a sunset and sitting there and you're on your BlackBerry trying to do deals about tomorrow or your iPhone or whatever, whatever. That's the reason you can't enjoy that shit.

Yeah.

I had to burn my entire world down to understand that, like, the only thing that I have true control over, I can make all the money in the world. Only thing that I have true control over, my purpose in life, why God put me here, was to literally find a way to live in the singular moment. And then the next incredible. And then the next moment and then the next moment. And really, like, that's the reason that this quote unquote alpha male, this tattooed bearded guy who's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's the reason I feel so blessed and like, my life is really good. I love my life. I fucking love my life. Like, I can legitimately say that I have kids. I mean, I have dogs and things and chickens. And like, I love my life. Nobody gave that shit to me. It took me Going through this storm to understand that, like this singular moment is all I have. By dinner, I could literally get struck by lightning and get hit by a truck. You know how many people literally. Think about this for a second. You want like a real reality check? You know how many people didn't wake up today? They didn't kill themselves, they didn't od. You know how many people, men, women, old, young, that their hearts just stopped or they had a brain aneurysm? Who had plans for today? You know what? I'm finally going to take my kids to that thing. I'm finally going to take that thing to my, you know, go to my, my wife or my husband or whatever. I have plans for tomorrow. The reality is, what are you doing right this second? Because if tomorrow didn't exist, how would you live today? Yeah, that's where I got in life. And I realized, like, I'm not guaranteed shit. There's books that have been written, we hear all the memes, we scroll through Instagram, blah, blah, blah, blah. You see all that crap, right? But what if it's real? Like, what if literally you didn't have tomorrow? What would you do today? What would you say? I challenge people. This a lot when I speak, I'm like, imagine for a second you had one hour to live.

Oh, wow.

Like, what would you legit? Who would you call, who would you text? What would you say? Where would you go?

You would not scroll Instagram, live that.

Life, speak those words, send those text messages, clear your decks. Like, I mean, how many people? I mean, you've very successful in business, but I love to study people from the past. And these moguls and these icons, the Carnegie's, the Rockefellers, the Steve Jobs, you read their books, their biographies, and they all say the same thing at the end of their book, which is this. If I could go back and do it all over again, if I could go back and trade places with Sean or Natalie Schill, anybody. If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have spent more time doing the things I wanted to do. I would have spent more time with my family. I've never read a single book where someone said, I wish I had worked 23 hours instead of 20 hours. I wish I'd have made $6 billion instead of $3 billion. I've never heard a single one of those people say it. So if you're smart, if you're listening to this and you think you're smart, you consider yourself a smart human being. And they're Telling you that they're on their deathbed saying these things, and you're continuing in this lifestyle of hustle and grinding, hustle and grinding, da, da, da, da. Like you're an idiot. They're literally saying, like, you're headed there, I'm headed there. I don't care how many cool pills you got, how many cool workouts everybody's got, like, we're both going to fucking die. I mean, maybe there's a hyperbaric chamber up in 10 years. I'd love to live forever, but that's coming. And so for me, I just, I got to this place in life where I realized, like, I want to be able to lay on my deathbed. And chances are I'm never going to be there. I'm going to like, drive my race truck off a cliff or do something.

Dumb because you'll be living present in the moment.

I'm living my life, right? Chances are I'm never going to be 90 years old laying on a deathbed. But I have this tremendous fear. People say, well, what do you fear? My number one fear is something happening to my children or something like that. But my fear is that I'm laying on my deathbed knowing that God put ideas in here and passion in here. And I squandered it because somebody was going to leave a comment on Facebook.

Oh, so good.

That was based off of what other people were saying. I want to literally kick back on my deathbed and be like, game over. That was a hell of a ride. I don't need to say anything to my kids. I don't need to tell them how to be good kids. I don't need to show, hey, go live your life. Like, I'm going to die. Like, you know, go do whatever you're passionate about. I want them to have seen their father do it for the last 30 years and just keep on going. I mean, I raced the Baja. I have an off road race truck that I raced with my son who was 13 years old. He was 10 when he started racing. Like, I'm showing him this life.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Because I'm living the life I want to live. I want to know that when that day comes, I'm good. Good. There's nothing left on the table. Like, I did the things that I was passionate about. And I think that's something that people really should stop and think about. And I'm telling you, it doesn't have to do with money. So many people that follow you and follow me, they're like, oh, that's easy for you to say because you have a big house or because you have money. Bullshit.

And we also created that bullshit.

I went through a bankruptcy when the market crashed. I've been broke as a joke. But what I did is I moved out of this mindset of that I needed to follow everybody. And I did things that were crazy, I did things that were passionate to me. And I built what I built and you built what you built. You know what I'm saying? And that day's coming for everybody listening. And I don't mean to be morbid, but like, if you're not thinking about that and not building right now, this conversation is all that exists.

Sean, I wonder. I wonder because everything you're saying is so speaking to me. And I'll tell you, I have moments and days and weeks where I forget it and I. And I get back in my control and my. And it's interesting because I start to see the signs now. And usually when my business is going downward or my relationship is getting bad, or something's happening, it's usually I can directly relate it to that and shift back into that. Do you ever. Does it ever come up for you? Do you ever find yourself going back to old ways? And what is the conversation that you go through to get yourself out of that?

The truth is I want to burn everything to the ground probably a couple times a week.

Okay?

You know what I'm talking about. When you're like, why am I doing this? It'd be way easier to have a 9 to 5 and just get a check every two weeks and live in suburban America.

Go work at Starbucks. It sounds great.

Like, just go, yeah, that's real, man, that's real. I mean, I was sitting with Ed Mylett, Lewis Howes and a bunch of the guys not too long ago at dinner. Bedros, a bunch of really, really cool guys. And we're all saying the same thing. Like that happens regularly. That's normal. And that's why I'm so open and vocal about my life and who I am and where I am and the mentality and the whole thing is like, life isn't perfect. It's not this euphoric reality. But at the end of the day, if you're not willing to go into the darkness, you really can't appreciate light. So when that darkness comes, I appreciate it because I realize this is teaching me something, right? And the days that I want to burn it down and walk away from everything, I'm like, alright, cool. What am I learning here? Right. Because I know the storm is going to pass. Like, the storm will always pass. It might be longer, it might be more intense, it might be more violent, but the storm will always pass. And when you're trying to run away from it, when you're trying to get out of it, you don't learn anything from it. And so what I teach my clients, I'm like, look, you're going to face resistance, you're going to face darkness. There will be days that you want to burn everything to the ground. You want to walk away from the marriage, you want to walk away from the business, the whole thing. You have to understand, like, those are the moments when you create clarity and you create maps of where you want to go. That's the most important time for you to stick to that. Right. You have a map. And what I teach my clients and what we do with lions, not sheep, is creating these maps of how to get where you want to go. Like, if I just say, well, I want to go to the beach and I point my car westward and maybe I'll end up there, it's a lot easier to just grab a map. And whether there's a storm or a dust storm or a rainstorm or a hailstorm or whatever, whatever, as long as I follow that map, I'm gonna get to the beach.

Yeah.

What most people do is we just, we throw these ideas up against the wall and hope that they stick and hope that we get to this place. Hope one day I make enough money and hope one day and hope one day. Hope is a terrible fucking plan. Yeah, hope is a terrible plan. And so if you have this map and you have this lifestyle and you've, you've built these, you have these tools, I mean, case in point, I go to movies all the time. Middle of the day, matinee movies, it'll come in the darkness. And I try and meditate and I'm like, ah. And I just. There's chaos in my brain. I'm like, shut it down. Go to the movies. And I will literally turn my phone on airplane mode. I will buy a big ass tub of kettle corn. I will go sit and eat kettle corn and just shut the entire world off for two and a half hours. I reset and I come out and I'm good. Where before I would spend days in that place of chaos and grind it.

Out, try to control it, Try to.

Control it like this. That allow you to just reset. And you know this. You want to burn down. You said the days where your business sucks or your shit it's real for everybody, and it doesn't matter where you are on the financial spectrum. That happens to every single human being. And so my encouragement for people is understand, like, I know in some kind of crazy, sick, demented way, like, I smile at some of that stuff now. Like, when the chaos comes, I'm like, you son of a bitch. Yeah, we got. Because I know something's coming on the other side.

Yeah. Feel so good. There's always a breakthrough after the breakdown. If you go into it, it's so good. Okay. Oh, my gosh. I could talk to you all day, and I'm not going to do that to you. I'm not. Explain. Can you speak into lions, not sheep? What does that mean? Because I. We've all seen the meme or, you know, we've heard. Explain what that means for people that don't know.

So I was. As. I was going through kind of my journey, and I've been a real estate investor for years and years and years and years, and the market crashed. I got my ass kicked, but I was still making money. And, you know, I've always been really good at that, and I just kind of lost the passion and the mojo for it. I was actually looking at this European clothing company. It was lambs, not something. And it just popped into my brain. Lions, not sheep. And it was like, okay, cool. Do you know how something just pops into your brain? I can't think anything about it. And for a couple of days, it was just pounding in my brain. Lions, not sheep. Lions, not sheep. Lions, not sheep. And I had this vision of doing a shirt right. It vibed with me. It resonated with me. I was like, I've lived my life as a sheep. I've lived my life following what everybody was telling me to do. Literally, like, that was the true essence of who I was. I was just following this blueprint that wasn't mine. And so I called my buddy and I said, hey, man, can you make me a T shirt? You know, the T shirt company? And I went. I picked out the font, the whole thing. I was like, just put some T shirt. And he set it up and gave it to me. And it was cool. And I was like, yeah, this is me. Like, this is my thing.

Yeah.

Who I am. It was like, almost like putting on armor. I hear that from people a lot that wear the gear. They're like, I feel like I'm putting on battle armor. It sounds funny, but there's mentality behind it. And I remember there was a picture on Facebook Someone's like, dude, that's a rad shirt. Where did you get it? I made it. It's the only one. Can you, can you make me one? And so I called my buddy, I was like, hey, can you make these? Like, how do I do this? And so he started a Shopify store for me and I set up the company name and I was like, okay, this is cool if people like it. So we started selling T shirts. And then I started getting into through this process with people messaging me and coaching and how can you help me? And I want to go through, you know, I want to fix my marriage, I want to fix my life. I started getting executives that were where I was saying, look, man, I'm watching you build this life and I'm working. I'm who you were a couple years ago. Can you help me? I was like, oh, shit, okay, maybe there's something to this. And so I formed a company and it's evolved over the last four years into, we've got a clothing line, we've got coaching, consulting, we do live events. I've got a private mastermind group with almost 460 people.

Wow.

All over the world that are all part of this.

460 people in your mastermind? That's incredible.

Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. And they're all over the world, like 11 different countries. But it's a mentality.

Yeah.

Know what I mean? There's lots of cool, catchy names and catchy things, but like, when you stop and think about it, like I look at it every day, like, what am I doing? Am I being a lion? Am I being a sheep? Right. And it sounds really cliche to a lot of people, but it's a mentality. And I move that, you know, I want to do what I want to do. I want to live the life I want to live. And when you think about it, you think about the true essence of a lion. I mean, they're laying around all day long under a tree, and then when they get hungry, they go hunt and kill. And then they go back and they do their thing and they're like, I want to go for a stroll. And they go for a stroll and they go do whatever the fuck they want to do. Right. Nobody tells the lion what to do.

But they still disrupt everybody just the way that they are just being. And that's what you like, you're being all of the stuff that you're talking about, and that's what disrupts people. And it's amazing.

Yeah, I did this Video a few months ago about flowers. I came out of Costco and I had flowers. And it was funny because I was going through the line checking out two bouquets of flowers, and the checkout guy was like, oh, you must be in a lot of trouble if you're buying two of them. I'm like, why would you say that? Like, it's the middle of the week. I bought one for my girlfriend and one for my daughter. Yeah, you know, like, that's the mentality that we have is like, I have to buy flowers either on holiday or cause I'm in trouble. And I was like, no, dude. I just bought them for my. For my. For my girlfriend and for my daughter. And the lady behind me was like, I wish my husband.

Aw.

I was like. So I came out of Costco and I shot this two minute video, and I kind of speak to men. I'm like, fellas, like, we buy safes for our guns. We buy, you know, big cases for our fishing poles. We buy all of these things to protect what's important to us. Like, why are we not doing this? Why is our culture talking about only buying flowers on Valentine's Day or birthdays? Why is it that, yeah, you got to be in trouble if you're buying flowers? Like, we fucked this up, fellas. Like, let's jump on this and invest in our relationships. And it ended up going viral. It's got like 100 and something million views. And so many people have come in and looked at this idea of lions, not sheep.

Yeah.

Really? It became who it became me. Like, I resonated with it. I put it on and it became who I was. And it was like, I want to lead. I also follow. And there's people that I follow. Very, very, very best leaders have mastered the art of following. And there's very specific people that I follow and that I learn from. But, you know, I didn't want to get to that place in life where I regretted it. And I lived my life as a sheep. And I did what I was told to do. Like, I wanted to do what I wanted to do. And, you know, thank God, like, I went through what I went through to get to this place. And not just physically and financially, but emotionally and psychologically to understand that, like, I'm in complete control of this game. This is my game. Like, God put me here for a reason and incredible things that I want to do. And if I want to take a nap today, I'm gonna take a nap. I'll go to the movies, I'll Go to the movies. I'll go work my work. I want to jump on a plane and fly to Paris. Jump on a plane, fly to Paris. Like, it's my game, my rules.

Yes.

Weird to people, but it's true.

No, but look how many people you're impacting because of that. Because of that. Taking that stand and be. And I believe. I mean, I made a post recently about feeling like somebody had said, I think God's using you to me. And I was. And I. And I loved it. And I. But I dive in. I looked at all the people that I follow, and then I. And I feel that the same thing about them, and I think it's incredible. And that is the ultimate truth. And you're sharing it, and I think it's brilliant. Can you. I can't let you go without asking about the app, because I just learned that you had this this morning just by me clicking on your Instagram. Like, what is this? And I see you're disrupting something again. Can you explain what that is? You have an app that's like, something I've never seen.

Yeah, it's called Meters. And I came up with the idea. I have. I mean, I've been in the real estate game for a long time, coaching and the whole thing. And I. About four years ago, I just came up with this idea because I saw social media slowing us down. What I mean by that is, like, if I go to New York and I do a Facebook post right now, and, you know, this. The algorithm thing, less than 1% of my following will actually see post. I mean, two years ago, I could do a. I could take a picture of a pile of dog poop in my yard and. And it would get 15,000 likes. And now the same thing, and I get 200. And yet then I had 200,000 followers. Now I have 900,000 followers. And so knowing that social media is not social media anymore, it's very much just mainstream, they're selling you and showing you what you know. My people aren't seeing me. I realize, like, how do I. How do I network with people? How do I connect with these people? I have hundreds of thousands of people that I can't reach and see them. So for me, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as a father, as someone who loves to network and meet people, right? If you think about how a lot of the connections came that you have, it was sitting next to somebody on an airplane or going to an event or standing in line getting coffee and just straightened up a conversation because somebody Has a Ford hat on and you're a Ford guy and you just start talking about Ford and then all of a sudden, boom, here's this thing. And so I came up with the idea for meters. And it's an app that allows people to literally be anywhere in the world and turn on and see other people right around you that want to meet now. Not tomorrow, not next week, not. Let me look through your social media profile and see if you're Republican or Democrat. But literally, I have 30 minutes in between my meetings and I want to go connect with another human being. I want to have coffee and meet. We can talk about business, we can talk about whatever. And so it's really cool because Tinder is like, big picture, because all I care about is if you're hot or not. This is a smaller picture and it gives you three pieces of information. What do you do? I mean, what's the first thing you ask people when you meet them? What do you do? What do you like to do? And then what do you want? And so, you know, I can go to New York now and I can flip on and see, like, flip through people and say, oh, you know, Natalie's. You're cool. What do you do? Fitness. You know, what do you like? I like fitness. What do you want? Like, more fitness. Whatever it is, you look interesting.

I wouldn't say those things, but that.

Whatever it is, right. I like wine, I like this. I like whatever. And it allows literally people to create instant meetings, instant face to face connection.

It's brilliant.

No algorithms, no bs. And so it's. It's been something that I worked on for the last couple years, and we officially launched it this month.

And I have to check it out. I'm checking it out right after this because that's like that. I love disruptions. And that's what you just found, is the complete, ultimate disruption to social media. It's awesome.

We talked about it. I put on my website. It's the antisocial media.

Yeah.

Actually doing what we were doing and programmed to do, which is sit down face to face, have a real conversation, say hello, ask real questions, versus this Facebook stalking.

Totally.

Whatever, whatever. And then maybe getting to my messages and maybe meeting with people. It's like, dude, yeah. Relationships are the lifeblood of your business. Relationships are the lifeblood of everything that we do. But how do you create new relationships? How do you meet new people? It's damn near impossible nowadays because our inboxes are filled with spam and social media doesn't want to show Everybody.

Email doesn't get delivered, like, all the whole thing.

Yeah, that's where Meters is.

I think it's brilliant.

Really cool. I'm really excited about it.

Sean, there's a question I ask everybody that I have on the show, and I'm dying to hear your answer now. So if somebody's listening to this right now, and they're in their own personal rock bottom. That tornado you described, when you're. And you don't know yet what you know now, like, you don't know that there's something great on the other side, but you're in that spot where everything just seems like it's falling apart, whether it's your marriage, your business, your finances, whatever. What would you tell somebody right now if you were to give them, like, three pieces of advice? You. You met them on Meters and you're talking them for 30 minutes, and you've got three pieces of advice you're going to give them to start shifting their mindset and leveling up. What would you tell them?

I would tell them one thing. And there's really only one thing that matters. Tell the truth.

You would tell them. Tell the truth.

Tell the truth. Tell the truth.

So tell people, I'm stuck, I'm broke, I'm. Whatever it is.

Tell the truth. Tell the truth. Because that solves everything. An abundance of communication solves every single problem. A lack of communication is why we have wars. Well, lack of communication is why we have divorce. Lack of communication is why we have so many issues in our culture, in our society. And the problem is that most people that are in that spot is exactly where I was. I was there. I was there. I was at rock bottom. I hated my life, hated who I was. I hated everybody around me. I was there. I can speak to this as someone who was at rock bottom, who put a Ruger P95 in his mouth and almost blew his freaking brains out. I was there. I know what it looks like. I know what it feels like. And the singular thing that I did that changed my life was telling the fucking truth. What was really inside of me, who I really. No buttered up bullshit. Nothing that would make mom happy or dad happy. The real shit inside that you feel, that you want, that you love, like that real shit is the ticket to your liberation. You keep hiding that you will stay where you are. So brilliant, I'm telling you right now, you will lose friends, you will lose people, but you will feel. You will feel better than you've ever felt in your entire fucking life. It will be a journey. It will be a process. But I've gotten to the place where I am now and there's no top. Oh, you get to the top. Bullshit. There is no top. You're constantly moving, constantly evolving, constantly climbing. And the single biggest thing that I did, it wasn't hiring a coach or a mentor. It was telling the fucking truth.

So good. So good. Shawn, thank you so much for this. This is amazing.

We're done. That's it.

Yeah.

Talked about the good stuff.

I know. I'm going to keep asking you questions. After this job. I'm going to. I'm going to stop it because I know when people see how long it is, I want them to hear this. And I'm going to. I'm going to have to have you back on because I'm going to have to have more. Yeah.

That's one of the top podcasts on the planet. And he does three hour freaking interviews.

Oh, my goodness. Yes. I can't wait. I can't wait.

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review. I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable. And come interact with me over on Instagram at Natalie Jill Fit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.