097: Why You Should Tell Your Story with Eli Nash

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst, learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Ellie Nash held a secret for years, the details of his own abuse. Now, what he knows now that he didn't know, those many years of keeping quiet is that vulnerability and emotionally sharing connects people. Today, he empowers others to speak up. He helps them use their own voice, share their own stories so they can become agents of change in their respective communities. Ellie founded Mic Drop, a public speaking training program that puts special emphasis on those who can't even imagine speaking publicly. Join in today and not only will you hear how Ellie coached me on my passion and story, I learned a lot. But learn exactly how he leveled up himself and created everything from nothing. Today on leveling Up, I've got Ellie Nash, who founded Mic Drop, who teaches people. Mic Drop teaches people how to tell stories from stage. And how interesting is that? Because my podcast is super story based. I wanted to know how did he get into that? How does he help people with that? And was he always super confident on stage? Because I don't know that he was. I'm dying to talk to him today. Thanks, Ellie, for being here.

Thanks for having me Excited to be here and tell a story. Listen to a story.

Yeah. So I love storytelling. I think that it's amazing when a speaker is trained in that because I think people do remember stories. They don't remember, you know, people's PowerPoints or the pictures they used or the bullets, but people do remember stories. And when a good storyteller is listening, really, it can transform audiences. It can transform anybody. It's really incredible. I'm imagining you weren't always a great storyteller or a public speaker. Tell us about how this even happened. Take us back.

I had an incredible, incredible fear of public speaking from as long as I can remember. I had memories in great school when a teacher would ask me to read a passage in front of the room or, you know, passing a book around and everyone read a paragraph. And I would get so anxious to the point of often finding reasons to excuse myself. Before that happened, if I was at a dinner table, which was. Wasn't uncommon, and Say, okay, we're gonna go around the room. Everyone introduce themselves. I'd find some reason to be in the bathroom before it got there.

Where do you think that came from? You know, I always hear. I always hear that, like, public speaking is one of the biggest fears that so many people are scared of, that I was not born with that I, like, came out of the womb wanting to and talk and speak. So I don't understand that, but I know it to be true. Where do you think that comes from? Is it, like, something people are learned to be scared of? What do you think causes that?

Yeah, it's definitely learned. Right. I don't think that a child can even make its way to its first or second birthday if it had a fear of public speaking. I thought about that as my. I had a son a year ago, 13 months ago. And I noticed that very quickly they figured out ways to express their needs, whether it's crying or anything else. And that was the first time it hit me that I wasn't born with the fear of public speaking. It was something I thought of myself as always shy. I was always shy. I'm naturally shy. That's just who I am. I have this fear. But when I saw the way my child had to scream to get fed. Not literally scream, but he had to make enough noise, and it matter if there were 10 people in the room or 100 people in the room, he was going to make his case. I realized that I didn't. I wasn't naturally that way. No one's naturally that way.

Yeah, but what do you think causes that fear of it? Is it.

So here's what I learned. Having a company that provides both the training and a platform for public speaking, and we kind of specialize. My favorite is when someone comes to it, like me, who thought they can never speak in public, is that a lot of different fears can manifest in that same thing, a fear of public speaking. So I'll give you a couple of examples of that. Some people have a fear of just all the attention on them. Right. The whole room stops, so it's not even speaking. They can even be afraid of, oh, look over there. There's him. And they walk into a room, and everyone turns to them. It's not saying anything. But that can intimidate some people.

Just having the eyeballs on you. Really?

Just having the eyeballs on you. Like, all the attention on you. And where did that come from? I don't know exactly where it came from for that person. That can be hard to pinpoint. Where it originated, but the fear is the fear of attention. Like fear of the spotlight.

Yeah.

And the way I saw that is we had a speaker who he trained who was so afraid of giving his speech, he freaked out right before, said, I forgot everything. So he said, great. What about taking the stage? Just take the stage and stand in the spotlight in front of a room and just feel what that feels like. And there were probably about 70, 80 people in the room. And he said, no, I can't do that. And eventually said, you know what? I'm going to get the courage to do that. And he did that, and he stood in the Spotlight for about 30 seconds, and the audience clapped. They saw what a big deal it was for him. And he sat back down, and I was like, wow, that's. That's a different fear. That's not the fear that I had. So when I walked into a room, maybe I even wanted people to notice me. That wasn't my fear. My fear was different. My fear was fear of emotions. And there's something about speaking in public that creates a lot of intense emotions.

So, like, potential, like, fear emotions that you didn't want to feel.

My own emotions. Fear of my own emotions. Okay, yeah.

So what might come up?

I know what would happen. I may cry in public. Something may, you know, in that there's a heightened sense of emotion when you're sitting. Standing in front of a room. So for those, I think, who speak publicly and that I'm not talking on a podcast like this, more of standing in front of a room, There's a heightened sense of emotion right there, standing there, and any emotions that may come out. So something that I may say to a person one on one, that I'll be able to get through, if I do that on stage, I may get very emotional. And that was. That was a lot of my fears. Just, there's going to be very intense emotions when I go out there and do that.

So do you find that there's a theme of things that come up for people like that? Like, I never would have thought of that, that emotions would have been the one. I would. I. I've heard a lot that people think they're going to forget what they said. They're going to say, sure. They don't want people staring at them. I hadn't heard that about emotions. But do you find, like, a common theme on the same specific things that come up?

I wouldn't say it's the most common, but I see it. Yeah. That's one reason people are afraid to talk And I wasn't afraid that I was going to forget what I had to say. I felt like I had a lot to say.

You know, I'm interested your take on this, but I find I'm usually the most engaged in public speakers that admit vulnerability and share emotions and that share, like, not maybe the most polished speaker, but the most authentic one.

Absolutely. So in terms of fear itself, that's what I. Those are some of the things I learned. So I'll go back to what happened with me.

Yeah.

I started a company in 2006, and the company was growing, and as we got to 70 or 80 employees, we would have meetings and things like that. And I was completely incapable of talking in front of everyone.

Okay.

It was really. Once a meeting got larger than four or five people, I was uncomfortable. And I started using all these workarounds. And at a certain point, I realized this is just not normal. Like, what workarounds would be.

They might know this. They might be doing this themselves.

So a workaround may be, okay, we have a company meeting, Other people are going to talk, but there are certain things that I need to communicate, so I'll be communicating through them when they need to say something.

Okay.

Sometimes cutting them off in the middle of the speech and just talking to them. And then they go back on the microphone and talk to everyone else. And I was like, wow, this is such a handicap.

Yeah.

I said, okay, I'm going to. I'm going to get over this. And the first way I got over it was just not avoiding those, you know, when it goes around the room or something like that. I mentioned earlier that I'd find a reason to sneak away. I would say that other times I took the initiative and I just said I would tell a room for no reason, that, hey, I've challenged myself to speak in public. This incredible fear for me. I don't have anything I want to say. I just needed to speak in public.

Oh, and how was that doing that?

The rooms are really receptive. Like, you're talking about vulnerability and things like that, to be able to say that. So there was an incredible fear. And sometimes I was very nervous doing it. But doing that a number of times got me to a point that, okay, I can do this. Then there was a. An organization that I was on the board of, and they wanted to honor me at a charity, at a charity dinner. I'd started a scholarship fund. And they said, we'd love to honor you at the dinner. I said, great, I have no problem with that. Like, I didn't mind the attention. Like I said, I wasn't afraid of that aspect of it.

Yeah.

They said, we'd like you to speak for a few minutes. So I said, okay, because I was still on that challenge. And I got so nervous leading up to it. So I memorized the speech and I had it all written down on words. When I got there, my mom was. My mom was next to me. She's like, ellie, drink. Sometimes it's like, drink more. Yeah. So I probably had three or four glasses of champagne and I read the speech and all sorts of nervous twitches going on and everything else at around the same time. And I've shared this story, and this is one of my speeches that I have on YouTube. I was dealing with overcoming some of the challenges related to being sexually abused as a child and recognizing how a lot of people didn't understand this, like, really didn't understand the way. So an example. I always like to give examples when I talk. So most. Most people who are sexually abused and you notice, for me, it's much easier for me to talk about this today, but most people are sexually abused, don't talk about it. Most states have statute of limitations that if a victim of abuse comes forward past a certain time, they consider it too late.

Wow.

So a statute of limitations when it comes to abuse, like New York, where I was born, is if there's no penetration, it's one year past their 18th birthday.

Wow.

So if we know statistically that people don't speak until their 40s when they're abused, and we only allow someone to come Forward when they're 19 years old or if there is penetration in New York till 23, then we really don't understand how sexually abuse affects someone. How sexual abuse affects someone. So I said, okay, I got to talk. I got to speak about this. And these two things were happening at the same time. What I did was I said, you know what? After this speech at the charity, I'm going to do a speech on sexual abuse. So a lot of the way I got over the fear was just by brute force. Right. Let me just kind of like pound the wall. I'm going to speak in front of people. I'm going to announce it in front of rooms. And as much fear as I feel, I'm just going to do it anyway. I'll go back a little bit. So Now I'm in 2013, in 2009, our company had a break in, and we sell cell phones and electronics and things like that. When we had a break in, we had Excellent footage. And a local news reporter. His name is Roche Lowe. He was working for the local Fox station in Miami, covered the story.

Okay.

And he and I developed a relationship after that. So when I did this speech, the speech at the charity dinner, I sent it to him and I said, hey, you know, I wasn't so happy with the speech. Maybe you can help me with a. Help me peer for a speech. This guy speaks in public every single day. And I had this idea in my head that the best way to do something is with coaches. Right. I'm sure in fitness, a lot of people try to get healthy. You'll do a lot better if you go to a trainer.

Sure.

So, same thing. I just had that idea, let me reach out to this guy. And I really wasn't pleased with my performance. I mean, I had to read the whole page in front of the audience. I had to do it after three glasses of wine or champagne or whatever my mother gave me. But it wasn't the way I wanted a speech to be. So he said, great, come over to my house, prepare a speech. Come over my house. Let me hear what you have to say. And this is really where I learned the power of storytelling. When I came into. When I walked into his home and I gave. Delivered the speech, it was filled with stats, filled with quotes, filled with all sorts of science that I had researched around sexual abuse and things like that. And he's like, ellie, cut the shit. This is just not going to move anyone since you stand in there. He said, give me one or two stats if you want, the really pertinent ones, but say only what you can say. Give me your story. Bring people into your story, what it felt like, and then the point will be understood. In my mind, it was like, if I can tell people that one in four children are abused. You know, just imagine, turn to your right, turn to your left. Turn to this. And that's one of those people. If you know 10 people, two of them are abused. Those sound great. They don't actually move people in meaningful ways.

So. Right.

So, you know, I saw a few examples of this. Like one example where I, you know, you think about the Holocaust, for example, Anne Frank impacted people a lot more than this number of 6 million. Like, reading that book, Diary of Anne Frank is like, I got it. I don't need to know there was 6 million. But when I see this now, if you tell me there was 6 million of these stories, Holy.

And it's. I see that too. Like, that's what makes the news the news. Sometimes too. Like the stat. It's when they show the camera on. On people that are going through something like, versus, like, when you look at numbers, there's no emotion. There's no human connection. Those stats don't move people at all, ever. But you actually show somebody. It's very hard to turn away a person or to turn your nose up to the person when you see their emotion and you see their pain.

Think of the immigration conversation, right?

Yes. That's literally what I was thinking about right now. Like, when you look at.

I mean, we have the recent story with his father and daughter who died, and the one that I thought about, like, even before that. Just one I've given examples of. Well, I think Time magazine had that young girl looking up at her mother. And it was really interesting because the young girl was looking up at her mother, and it was just. Had this broken look on her face. And a lot of people saw this and were moved by it. And what they were moved by was parent separation from children. And afterwards people tried to say, hey, that wasn't even happening in that picture. The mother and child were there. It didn't matter. It created a certain emotion that was a pain on the child's face that we're all able to understand. We said we don't want that. And that just. And that resonated with people, even though the facts may have not lined up exactly to the case they were making.

Totally.

That was more important because the emotion was there.

Yeah. And you hear, like, all the time, too. If you think about why so many people maybe wouldn't donate to charity, but then they see past somebody on the street or they actually are talking with somebody, they want to help, and then they all of a sudden help and they're moved. It's like, I feel like that human connection is so missing. And through storytelling, we're able to bring that back. So I love that. You see, doing that is such a gift. The whole idea of storytelling, 100%.

And that's also where I noticed how that fear of emotions was there, because the way I was trying to speak, even in going through the. The. The say, okay, I'm going to speak publicly. Reading from a piece of paper totally shatters any connection.

Oh, yeah, big time.

I once saw someone speaking. I was at a speech, several hundred people in the audience, and she was crying while reading her speech. So much emotion, zero connection. It was just awkward.

Yeah. And it's so funny because I think people. You want to memorize, so you want to hold your paper so you don't forget anything. But if you just tell your real story, that's all you need. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be in a specific order. Like you just tell your real truth.

Yeah. What he asked me to do is he said, let's take your speech. Right. A speech should always be about one thing. Right. Audiences don't assume too much. You feel like you want to say a lot, try to make it one point. And everything should lead back to that one point. So my one point was that sexual abuse is a lifelong sentence. Like, someone goes through this not in terms of victim way. Like on victimized. I have this. But more in terms of the effects are so real for so long. That was the point I wanted to make.

So I have a question for you.

My story, I have a question for you.

Do you think this sexual abuse, because that's super detrimental and really painful, do you think that there's a connection with that and your fear of public speaking, like, fear being seen?

I think I had a fear before, honestly, you know, when I. When I talk about my memory in school of reading and being uncomfortable, I think that that may. Whatever that fear was was probably there before the abuse could be what the person picked up on.

Got it.

What made me the target?

Yeah.

Old as this person saw me as vulnerable. And one was that I wasn't going to speak up. So I think that fear was there before.

Okay. Now, Ellie, a lot of people are super petrified of speaking up. Right. About sexual abuse, but other things, too. They're really scared of being vulnerable and sharing. What do you want them to know? Because I know for you, it wasn't easy the first time you did that. But what do you want them to know is on the other side of that?

So I think those things that we're most afraid of and have the most shame around are the things that are most human about us. And it's in that. That we connect. You know, I read a great line. It said, no one, no one wants to see vulnerability in themselves, but they love seeing it in others. Right. So if we think what happens when we see it in someone else? In a lot of my speeches, and this was through the coach, through Rash, he sat me through it and he said, ellie, it's okay if you cry.

Yeah.

So what. What he tried coaching me through is how do I get to a point, in a lot of my speeches, I got very emotional. How do I get to a point that I'm comfortable that even if I get emotional, I can contain myself enough to be coherent. But when I got emotional, which I was so afraid of, those were the speeches that really moved the audience because what was I trying to portray? I was trying to portray that sexual abuse affects someone for a long time.

Yeah.

So here I am as a 30 year old person who's built a business and has had some success and I'm talking about something that happened to me at 8 years old, 9 years old, and I'm getting emotional over it. No, no data, no quotes are going to convey that as much as my emotion. No.

It's incredible. Now, do you think you can still be vulnerable and share without emotion?

It doesn't necessarily. Vulnerable is not the same thing. It doesn't have to be crying. That's not the only emotion. It could be anything. Right. If someone walks over to someone and say, I like you, I want to make that's vulnerable. Right. That's. Sure there's no emotion there. They shouldn't be crying when they say that. I think vulnerable is just something that exposes us a little bit.

Yeah.

When you know there's a lot of science on this. I mean, Brene Brown I think talks a lot about that vulnerability. Trust cannot be created without one person choosing to be vulnerable.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting. There's a, there's, it's almost like a trend right now on social media to be vulnerable and it can still be fake. Like I think when people try so hard to be vulnerable, it's not like they're trying to do it or they're trying to like do it, like tell a story to make it sound that way. And I feel that you can tell a real difference. And I, I, to me, the vulnerability is sharing what you are scared to death to share. Like whatever you're thinking like I shouldn't share or talk about, that's exactly what you need to. And that to me is the vulnerable part. It's not that telling or making up or pulling apart that you think you can show as a performance, be vulnerable. It's literally the stuff that like I know I've shared some things that I literally want to throw up before I share it. It's like I don't, I can't share this. And then when I do, that's what connects with people so much.

So I'll give you one that recently happened when I recently shared about. A couple months ago I did a TED talk in Fort Wayne, Indiana called Escaping Porn Addiction and I shared about that. So leading up to that, this was the last thing I wanted to talk about.

Oh, yeah, okay.

Something that was so shameful. But what I saw was a couple of things, was A, well, I had a lot of shame around the fact that I was abused. When I spoke about it, it helped me past it. And B, there was a misunderstanding. I felt like a call to action of purpose on this. So when it comes to porn addiction, the reason I chose to speak about it was I knew there was a lot of shame on the topic. Right. There's obviously the numbers speak for themselves. The amount of porn movies and porn sites, and it's one of biggest industry, apparently 10% of all data that gets communicated on the Internet is pornographic. Wow. A third of all data downloaded is pornographic. But there are very few people who say, hey, like, this is killing.

So clearly people are using this and.

They are using it. How many people are addicted? We don't know. But, you know, same thing. If a lot of alcohol is being consumed, we can assume there's a percentage of that are addicted to the alcohol. But what really said it's told me I must speak about this. Was actually Rosh Lowe, the same trainer. So we were at our company, we do this storytelling, which is how I got into the business of it. We had Rash come into our company and train a number of people on a message that they were going to give. And it's not super. We always. The training method kind of demands vulnerability, but it does not demand something huge like sexual use or porn addiction or something else. Actually, in this case, I told Rash, I said, hey, I want to speak this. This was in October of last year. I said, I'd like to speak as. Okay, let me. Let me hear your speech. And I said, great. The topic is going to be on the importance of asking for help, because I believe that that's kind of a prerequisite for anything. So we got to ask for help. And my topic and the story that I'm going to use to illustrate that point is my struggle overcoming porn addiction. And he says to me, ellie, there's no way you're talking about porn addiction. I go talk about porn addiction. He's like, no way. You're like the CEO of this company. You're going to talk about porn addiction. Your employees will look at you like, you know, they'll lose respect for you. So it was kind of like, you know, I was like, yeah. Also you of all people, the guy who preaches vulnerability, who preaches story, talks about this like you're telling me I can't talk about the subject. I said, you know what, you're right. I'm not going to talk about porn addiction here. But what I am going to do is I'm going to get a much bigger stage, not just in front of my company.

Wow.

I'm going to do it on the TED stage. And that's when I made the decision that I'm going to do a TED Talk on porn addiction.

That's amazing.

And so it was kind of like that combination of things.

Yeah.

Last Monday, in terms of the dates, because I don't know when someone's listening to this, but it was July 1st. I got the notice that I did in April, but I got the notice that it was released onto ted channel with 19 million subscribers and I was sick for two days.

Yeah.

Yeah. I was like, oh, shit. Someone's gonna my name and the first thing they're gonna see is porn addiction. And I don't, you know, I don't want to be identified. And all of these thoughts came rushing into my mind. I missed a couple lines from my speech and it wasn't perfect and everything else. And what got me past it and what I think that most people experience when they're vulnerable and they share something that they don't is other people connect.

Yes, that's it. Yeah, they do. And that's what's so missing, Ellie. I mean, I feel like connection is the thing that is missing with everything everywhere. So. And that what you said, the sharing, the vulnerability is the glue that connects everything 100%.

Yeah. So what eventually got me past it where now I'm totally okay with it. I got tons of messages like this, but I'll just read a couple short ones on Facebook from people I don't know.

Got it.

After the speech. Once said thank you. Just want to say thank you again. Your TED Talk was exactly how I feel. I don't feel so alone or crazy now.

Oh, my gosh. I just got chills. That's incredible.

Another one is a little bit longer, but said, I'm sorry to bother you, but I just watched your TED Talk and I wanted to applaud you for sharing this message and sharing your story. I can relate in so many ways to your experience, but at the same time, it is so entirely different from my own. What you shared has reignited me in spark of. What you shared has reignited inside of me. A spark of hopefulness from someone who has struggled with sexual identity and suicidal thoughts as well as struggled with what 20 minute video I was going to occupy my time in tonight. Spoiler alert was Yours. I admire you, Ellie. I don't know this guy and I still don't know who he is. And I greatly appreciate that I was able to find your message. I won't bore you with the details because I'm sure you're getting bombarded with thousands of comments of how you change people's lives with this video. So I'll just keep it simple. You've changed something in me. Set a new conviction within me. Help me realize the future that I want for myself. And with God's help, I will live to that true potential that I'm able to thank you, Ellie. Would be an honor to shake your hand and thank you in person someday. But until then, I'll be satisfied with social media. You new fan and admirer.

It's amazing.

I have, I got a bunch of messages like this. And you know, most people don't reach out. Most people get. Get impacted.

So I always feel that people's pain, like your pain is totally your purpose. And I want people that are listening that are not sharing or don't know what to share because they're waiting for it to be perfect or like, what does everyone need? Like, everybody has their unique pain, their unique lessons that they've learned and they're such a gift and being able to share that because you help so many people. That's anyone listening on any topic. Like every single human has a unique experiences they've been through that they've learned. And sharing it is going to connect and help others.

One of the things we train in our training method is give the speech to your younger self.

Oh, I love that.

That you needed to know, you needed to hear.

Beautiful.

When I was, when I was thinking about the abuse is what is the speech that I needed to hear after I was abused as a child, as an adolescent, as a teenager that I needed to hear. So that I needed to hear. And then same with porn addiction is when I was in the midst of it, what is the speech that I needed here and the speech that I needed to hear is that there's no shame in being a porn addict.

Yeah.

And when you feel the same, it's hard to get out of it. But if you can remove the shame from someone for a little bit, they can get, you know, and you hear that, you, you hear that in these things. I don't feel so alone. I feel some hope, which is what I was trying to convey to them and give someone enough of that that they can step out, you know, step out into that healing.

Good for you. For being so brave. I love that. I think that's incredible. I. I've really learned vulnerability over the last few years. I was raised with a dad that always said showing emotions was weak. Like if I would cry as a little girl, he would make fun of me and say like, that's. We don't do that. So I learned that. So I. It was years of being that person that wasn't sharing emotionally. And even though I thought I understood vulnerability, speaking on stage or on social media or wherever it was, until I really learned to drop in like you're talking about and share from the heart, like what I'm. I wasn't connecting with people. So I think it's. And that's one of the reasons I think I asked about sharing. Like physically, do you need to be crying or whatever? I don't know that you do and I'm glad you shared that. But it's, but really just dropping into what scares you and sharing from your heart because that's what connects us. And I love that you're speaking and teaching into that. Do you think anyone else, anyone could be a speaker?

Absolutely. I think that everyone has one kick ass speech inside them. I don't know that everyone can be a Tony Robbins. I know that everyone has one kick ass speech inside them. And I've seen it. I've seen some amazing speeches.

How do you. Now do you like. I'm interested in this because I've done public speaking a lot, but I've never done like a speech. Right. So I think there's a difference. Like I've public speech with like my notes up or just sharing a story. But as far as like a speech, the best speeches are they.

Can you, can you clarif that distinction? For me, I wasn't there like going.

And I think a lot of people can take a PowerPoint and go in and present like you. You're looking at bullets on a PowerPoint. And then I think a lot of people can answer questions publicly, but practicing and rehearsing a speech, like an actual speech, like I think of TED talks as a speech. I feel like it's a little bit different. It's really there. You're practicing it. There's a start, there's a middle, there's an end. All of that. What, what is the process with something like that? How do you take someone through that? Is it like, do they dial in their story first and then there's a sequence? Like what happens with that? Is there a special way that people.

Have to do that so we give a An overall structure. Right. We have kind of a five part structure. The first thing is, is getting clear on someone's message. Do you. Okay. Are you okay if I ask you some questions?

Yeah, let's go for it.

Maybe kind of take you through this.

Yeah. Use me as an example.

So I'm not the trainer, not perfect. This is just from me watching others. So if any of our trainers do listen to this, going to be great.

I've never done that. So this is awesome.

So we start with passion.

Okay.

Like passion is super, super, super important. And usually people have a relatively easy time talking about their passion. So if I asked you for two or three things you're really passionate about, what are they?

I'm impassioned. I'm passionate about empowering others to, to find their gifts within them. I think that I'm very passionate in women especially getting rid of what I call false assumed truths about aging, about women that believe that they're too old and it's too late. Because I believe that there is no too old and too late. It's what we've learned and been conditioned in society. So I'm very passionate about that. I'm very passionate in bringing back how we behaved and acted as a child. I think of like innocent, the innocence of a 7 and 8 year old. For the most part, when they believe anything is possible, they play. They're very present, they're in the moment, they are confident. They don't have this belief that things are not possible. So I get those are three of the big things that I'm passionate about.

So where do you think this passion comes from? And let's for this exercise assume or define or assume that passion is something. Right. It's unlikely for someone to be passionate about money when they've had money their whole life.

Right?

Right. So usually there's something missing or they felt a lack of that creates that passion. So where do you think this passion comes from? Either empowering others or in a way, there's a certain unifying thread.

Yes. All of my own experiences. So whenever I've been in a spot in my life where I felt down, I thought something wasn't working for me. I was hyper focused on something that was handicapping me in a way learning to break through it. When I did break through it was super empowering and it made me want to shout from the rooftops to others that they can do this too.

So if you had a message that, like let's say this rooftop message that you wanted to share with the whole world, say it in. In one sentence so we can play with it. The first one doesn't have to be perfect.

Can I say I. Basically the little girl in you or the little boy and you need to hug, like that person is good enough and that person needs to be seen.

So they sound like different things. So the little girl and you need to hug. So maybe the child and you need.

To hug the child and you need to hug because, like the child so you can know that you're enough. You don't have. Because what I believe is that people get away from what the childlike wonder. So they at one point believed that anything was possible for them. And then they got older and they started believing that things are not possible. It's. It doesn't have to. It's not easy. It's challenging. There's things wrong here. So I want the person that's the 7, 8, 9 year old, that. That person to know that they're enough and keep developing that creativity from that place, keep growing from that place.

Okay, so if I asked you a question in terms of empowering others, did you feel like there was someone in your life as a child who could have empowered you? Shouldn't have. Shouldn't. Should have empowered you, but didn't empower you? Did you feel unempowered or disempowered maybe?

Yeah. Yeah.

Can you speak to that?

Yeah, I think not for my parents. I think I felt. I felt unempowered by other kids as I got older. Like middle. Think of, like, preteen bullies at school, mean girls telling me that I can't. I definitely disempowered by teachers telling me that I wasn't focused, that I needed to pay attention.

So give us one story.

So, okay, one story would be teachers, a teacher, many. Every teacher I had telling my parents, you know, if Natalie would pay attention, if she, you know, she's too distracted, she's daydreaming, she's not focused.

They try to get to one story. A teacher, their name, the grade. Like, bring me into one specific story, a comment they made, what it made.

You feel like you're going with this. It gets uncomfortable. Wow.

Yes.

Yeah, I see where you're going. Okay, let's think. Okay, I'll. I'll give you one. Maybe I won't go to a teacher because I can't remember a name, but I remember a. I remember being on the school bus and having another girl. I can't remember her name, though. I think her name was Kelly. Her name was Kelly. I remember a Girl, I remember her eyeshadow and I remember her glaring at me, teasing me to other, making fun of me to others.

Do you remember what she said?

Yeah, she told me that I was. She called me a Jap. That's what she called. She called me a Jap, which is, for those that don't know, is a Jewish American princess.

And what did that make you?

She meant it in a derogatory way. Like she's like, I was trying too hard. I was like trying. It was just like a. Like over privileged. And I was not a privileged child. I was like, I was definitely middle class. I was not in the higher upper class or anything like that. But she was acting as though I was because she was calling me a Jap. And I remember.

How old were you?

Gosh, I probably was maybe nine or ten.

Oh, wow, okay, so you're nine or ten years old. You're on the school bus. Yeah, this girl with this eyeshadow.

Yeah, I remember that.

What did you feel like?

I felt small. I felt like I didn't fit in, like I didn't belong, like I wasn't good enough.

And what did you tell yourself then?

That I needed to hide what I really wanted, to share what I wanted to look like, who I was. I needed to change, to be liked by others.

And how did that impact you afterwards?

I created a story in my life. I created a loop in my life about hiding money or hiding nice things that I really wanted because other people would judge and it would make me feel bad.

Okay.

Yeah, you just look at that. You got to me. It's good. I love it.

Right, so here's. Okay, so now back to the message, right? So what is it? What is the message that you want to scream from the rooftops? Because with a little disjointed, you want it in one clear sentence? Connect it to the story. Like, what if you were there today, okay, and you're watching this interaction with a 9 year old, your 9 year old self and that bully on the bus who calls you a Jap. And you're watching this and you're like, man, this girl's gonna walk off the bus and she's gonna start making different decisions for the rest of her life or for a long period of time because of this silly interaction. What would you want to say in one sentence to this girl?

Do not listen to the girl on the bus. She does not know you at all. And she's unhappy in her own life. She's having. Probably being bullied at home. She's Got people disliking her and she's trying very hard to be seen. And for her, she wants to make you feel bad because it makes her feel better.

So give it to me in one. Like, is it like just be yourself always, no matter what. Like a nice succinct, like if, if there was a, a magazine with your picture on it and you have just a nice bullet because if you say too much, it gets lost.

Someone else's opinion of you does not define you. Maybe someone else's opinion of you does not define you.

Oh, perfect. So your speech, right, would be called right? Maybe no one can define you or only you can define something like this.

This is good, Ali. This is good.

So that's your speech and I'm not, I want to be clear, I'm not the trainer or just watching.

This is really good. And I hope, I hope this exercise helped others listening because I coach into this and I would have never taken myself down that path. And that's really good.

Yeah. So it's okay. No one can define you, right? So you literally start off, you'd get up on stage and you'd say, no one can define you. Now if you ended the speech there, it would be, it would kind of be like preaching. No one can define you. Who the hell are you? So as soon as you say that, okay, what, what we, we train is imagine the audience saying, who the hell are you?

Right?

Right. So, okay, so. So you say, okay, let me tell you my story.

Yeah.

I grew up lower middle class, whatever it is, right? And you know, I had loving parents and everything else. No reason why I should have a low self esteem. But one day I'm on a bus, right? And this girl. And you really bring people into that scene on the bus, right? I'm sitting there, you know, with my little pink shoes and my backpack and all excited and, you know, sitting, talking to my friend and some girl from the other side of the bus with her eyeshadow and whatever else says, you're such a jap. And in that moment, I just felt so empty, like I was nothing. And amazingly, that comment stuck with me. And if I'm honest with myself, when I was 15 years old and I'm putting on a certain dress, I chose which dress to wear because of that interaction that I had with that girl on the school bus, that is someone going to look at me and say, I'm too much of a show off, I'm too high class. And I started to hide things about myself and I said, I want to show that I was this pretty. I didn't want to show I was that rich. I didn't want to show I was too successful. Everything else. And then one day. So tell me what happened one day. How did it all change?

Yeah, well, this took me into my adulthood. I mean, like, I didn't actually really link that back till recently where I had built my business. Many listeners on here know this. I built my business as a broke single mom, as something I went through in my mid-30s. And I created solutions for women that they could do at home, very inexpensive, their own body weight, really learning, healthy eating. And I created that for my audience and that launched my whole business. And then as I leveled up and evolved and was creating higher end things for my clients, like coaching packages or VIP weekends, I would almost be embarrassed presenting them because I would be. I didn't want to offend people. Yeah. Like with how much it was going to cost. So feeling terrible. So. And I couldn't figure out where the disconnect was, like why I was always hiding that, like hiding this part of my life. And I went to meet a friend for lunch and I told this story before, but she drove in with her chauffeur and her. Her Bentley. And I remember the first thing I thought instead of thinking like, oh, this is so cool, like she's so successful, she has a chauffeur in a Bentley. I got embarrassed where like, oh my gosh, what if a client saw this? And what would they think?

And.

And I took that on and it was in that moment that I connected the dots. Like, why, why do I worry about that? Like, why does my friend coming with a chauffeur affect what my clients think about me? Like, where does that come from? And that's what looked. Had me digging back to childhood and where did I form these beliefs that it's not okay to have nice things or to have people see that you have nice things.

Amazing. By the way, I totally connect with this because there was a period of time where I was driving at Bentley for like three, four months.

Okay.

And even now I think it's a little bit there because I almost feel the need to explain to the audience why I was driving a Bentley and that it didn't cost me any.

Yeah. So see, that's what I lived in. Yeah.

Yeah. So I totally. Yeah, I totally connect with it. You know, I'm going to do. I'm not even going to explain how we can explain after the show I can tell you about this story just so that I can Say that because that's good, right? Meaning, so right there, when you say that story, what happens is something honest. Like, I totally connect with that. Where for me, maybe it wasn't quite as intense as yours, but I definitely felt some of that. Where, you know, do I want to be this showy? Do I want to. Yeah, you know, and I found, like, during this time that I was driving the Bentley, I found myself explaining all the time a couple of things, right, That I. It wasn't costing me any money. I bought it as an investment. My other car had managed to get totaled. And I just had this for a short period of time. And I was just explaining it to everyone. God forbid they should think that I have a Bentley, right?

And what's so funny about that, Ellie, And I know you see this too, is like, that's the conversation I had to have with myself, with. If I want to level up other women and show them that it's possible to create any life they want, why do I have this story about having to hide that or embarrassed by that? Like, that's. Instead, empower people to level up. They can make their own decisions. Like, anyone could have things that they want them. Like, let's empower that. So it's interesting. So what you're sharing really resonated with me because that's what I was doing, right?

So it sometimes has. When you talk about something which for you is major and was an obstacle in many areas of your life for someone else, and me as an audience member, I may connect with it not on that level, but on a smaller level.

I love that.

And actually, I remember I had an employee who was. He had become like the number three or four person in the company. And he was driving this, like, 1998 BMW. And what was bugging me was that he was often in the shop and dealing with it. And I'm like, can you just get rid of this car? And, you know, I know what you make. You make enough money, get a decent car. And I don't want to get a nice car, so why not? He said, I don't want to make people feel insecure if I have a nice car, right? So what, they can be jealous if they see a nice car? Says, yeah. I said, you think there's a possibility that someone else who works for you and reports to you may be inspired that they know you, they know where you came from, they know that you grew up with no father. They know you grew up, you know, at the bottom. And here you are driving a brand new BMW don't you think you may inspire them knowing that? He said, yeah, maybe some. So I said, what right do you have to take away the opportunity for someone to be inspired? Because some jackass who may be jealous.

So good. So good. Yes. I love this.

Right. So I mind we get there. So. Okay, so now we're continuing the story. We have you, your overall message. You know what I think your message should be? What should it be is don't listen to the bullies.

Don't listen to the bullies. I love it. Okay, so see you guys. He just took me through this. I hope people went through this on their own, too, to see how this is. This is pretty cool. Genius. So I think, like you said, everybody has a story in them. Everyone has a story in them.

Bill Clinton, I saw Bill Clinton say this. Everyone has an amazing story, but few people know how to tell it.

Yeah. Or they rush through it like, they rush through it like, this happened to me. And let's move on.

Right. So I'll give you just the ending part, and then we have the speech. So the ending part will be, what is the current problem today that you're seeing? Maybe not in you. Right. You've gotten through this to a certain point. What is the current problem that you're seeing? Maybe with others, with some of your clients or others that you're seeing? And what is the solution to that problem? So those two things.

So you're asking me this. So what am I? The problem is there's still those childhood wounds that they never really addressed. It's still carrying them through. So they're still. They're people pleasing their fear. They are scared of being judged. They're. They're trying. They're not being themselves. They're too worried with, who do I need to be to impress this other person? Or how do I. It's the chameleon effect. Like, they have to be something different for different people. So they're happy with them.

So in a lot of ways, what you're saying is that you've been able to overcome something that a lot of people haven't been fortunate enough to overcome yet. That's the pro. That's the problem. And what's the solution? What. What do people have to do in order to get over it?

The solution is the awareness, thinking back to where it came from and doing the hard work to rewrite that story of the story you made up about that. So, like, there's lots of incidents that happen as a child to us, and we've made up a story of what that means, but going back and doing the work on what. What was the incident that happened and what was the story that I was believing then and then reach and changing that. Like we. There's a new story. There's a new meaning to that.

Give me an example of some of that hard work that you had to do.

So an example of that going back to the money was going back and addressing and looking at the facts. So that was one thing. But I also. I didn't share a story with you that I was burglarized as a kid. And my parents told me when we were burglarized, when you have nice things, people want to take them. So it was me being aware of that and thinking, okay, my parents told me what they believed at the time. It didn't mean it was a fact, and it doesn't mean that all people want to take your nice things. So it's just like looking at it from. With adult eyes back to what I interpreted and made up as a kid.

So that sounds like the awareness phase. Okay, that's the awareness. What's the hard work?

The hard work is being aware every single time it comes up. Because it comes up all the time. There's always triggers and patterns that repeat themselves. And taking that pause when you feel that initial, oh, that's making me uncomfortable. And really thinking through why that's making you uncomfortable and having a different shift, a different approach to it.

So I'm going to challenge a little bit. Again, that sounds like awareness. Okay, so the hard work is maybe that it's going to be uncomfortable when you do it initially. Right.

So meaning getting uncomfortable. Getting uncomfortable.

Right. So you're aware that when you drive a nice car today. Do you drive a nice car today?

I drive an okay car. I don't drive a Bentley.

Right. An awesome takeaway would be to get a nice car.

I will now buy a Bentley.

Picture. Now, that's tough. Unless that Bentley is tough. But I will. So let's say the message to others is, okay, I'm gonna. I'm aware now that the reason I'm uncomfortable is because of these messaging that I got. And now from the story, Right. You see, as you start working on a story, you have a couple examples. The girl bus, the burglary, and then your parents telling you that. Right. So you have a few examples that fed into this idea that don't show when things are doing well.

Yep.

And the eventual solution is, now you say things are doing well in your life. And that's what attracts People to you.

Yes.

Right. So you're seeing just the opposite. Right. With attracting people is someone saying like, hey, I want, I want to learn from her, I want to gain from her. So there's a lot of benefit in showing, especially if you're combining it with some vulnerability and show it.

Yeah, you. I have to get uncomfortable and show it. Like that's walk doing. Doing the work there.

And when you do it, you're uncomfortable.

Yeah.

It's always time you get in the nice car. You're uncomfortable.

Yes. Because the trigger never goes away. Just how you deal with it does.

So the weirdness is not enough to overcome the discomfort. Discomfort is still there. Right.

You have to work through the discomfort. The only way out is through. So you have to go through it.

And I. To me, that's. That's an amazing speech.

I love this. So there we go. I'm ready to do a TED Talk.

Exactly right.

I love it.

Don't listen to the bullies. I love the speech. Don't listen to the bullies. A lot of people can relate to that. You bring people into some really key scenes and stories early on.

Yeah.

You're then talking about how you eventually overcame it. Right. We're probably missing an anecdote, which I won't go into here, but how you eventually overcame it and now how this converted into. Now you started noticing once you overcame it, it's like, wow, there's so many people living and modifying their lives because of something some bully told them in grade school.

Totally.

I'm here to change that for you. And let me tell you what you need. It's a two step process. Awareness and getting uncomfortable.

So good. This is so helpful. Gosh, not where I thought this conversation was going today, but this was really helpful. So good.

Yeah. Hopefully the audience.

Yeah, I think they will. Okay, so I do have a question that is now feels a little unrelated to this, but I have to ask it because it's something I ask every single guest on the show. If somebody's listening and they are in their own personal rock bottom spot. So maybe they're dealing with their. Their realization that they were sexually abused. Maybe it's something with their job. Whatever it is their own personal rock bottom that they're dealing with. If you were to give them advice on three things they can do to start leveling up and creating everything from nothing, what would you tell them?

Advice is so scary. I mean, that's why I like stories. Right. Stories is so much more. It's so much easier to relate to a Story than advice. Advice sounds like preaching.

Okay, so some.

Some could be at different. At different points. In my own story, you know, I grew up being told what God was.

Okay.

I grew up in a very religious environment, and God was a punishing God and a demanding God and a punitive God and very conditional. Right. Do this. You get that? And for me, a very important. A very important shift. It was trying on a different hat. Right? Suppose that every single thing that happened to me happened for a reason. And the most negative experiences were there to mold me into someone that I could become. Right? So the reason you are who you are is because of that bully. That bully was your greatest teacher. So you could have gone in two paths from that bully. One was to continue until you're 95 years old, hiding your nice things, or at some point in time to have this massive realization to say, holy shit, I've been living like this for 20 years because of something that someone else said. Yeah, I'm breaking that today. And then I'm using that to now help others. I'm gonna learn on experience. So a big part of mine was to say, okay, let's assume none of it was random sexual abuse. Wasn't random. I was chosen to be sexually abused. Why? There's only one explanation that I have something in me that can help other people with sexual abuse. So the other is that I felt silenced lot. I felt like I couldn't talk. So overcoming that silence. Okay, okay. I can be in a place where I'm comfortable speaking. Right. Assuming God exists. Just trying on. I'm not sure being religious or anything like that. Just assuming that there's a guiding force in the universe. The fact that I had a fear that I had to overcome for the stage. Is there any meaning in that? And the meaning is that you never had that fear, so you can't relate to someone. Someone walks in and says, I have a fear of public speaking. You have no idea what they're talking about.

Yeah.

You have no idea. Yeah. Yes. At the beginning of the conversation, when I meet someone who has a fear of public speaking, I can help them because I can talk about my fear. And hopefully they can say, like, wow. I mean, I had the craziest twitches when I. When I spoke in public, I would scratch my forehead. My right leg would just kick. My butt would just flick off. I was like, what the hell is going on? But that's. That's what would happen when I was speaking in public. And now I can use that to help others. So I don't know that I have three things I. But maybe there's two. One is a relentless focus on the positive in life. There's gotta be some stuff that are working and not just say, like, oh, I'm grateful I live in America, or I'm grateful it's a nice day. But really take some of that in almost meditating on the good. And the second is just trying on different hats and say, like, okay, so let's say there's a guiding force. What would that guiding force want me to do? What unique skill sets do I have that combined with this tragedy or difficult thing that happened to me, I can do something with? I was so shameful that I had a porn addiction. I said, you know what? Fuck it, I'm gonna turn this in, right? Assume there's a guiding force behind that gave me porn addiction because it could have given me something cool. How cool is it to have an alcohol addiction? I see people walk around with necklaces, right? Of how long they're sober. They're sober. No one walks around says, oh, I'm free and clean of porn for three years.

Right.

You never see that.

Maybe you can't do that.

I can do that. So no one else is going to do it. No one else did do it. I'm sure myself, no one else did it. At least they didn't do it enough for me because I still feel shame. So I'm going to get on and talk. That's what I'm charged with.

I love this. So good. Ellie, how can people work with your company? Where do they go?

Mic drop. We got a website. Mic drop 1 mic drop. O N E. Okay.

Can anyone do it?

Can anyone, anyone please have someone with a massive fear of public speaking? If someone, like a gift. Huge fear or something like that.

Yeah.

Like, I'd love to document it in some way. Like, if someone reached out, we wouldn't charge them. They had a massive fear of public speaking.

Look at that.

Something they never thought they would. If you'd agree to document it in some way, I'll agree not charge them at all. Yeah. And let's see how we can get them and hopefully show your audience that this is not. This is not theoretical. Let's take someone who said, I could never speak. We had an event about a month ago and we said, who has the biggest fear of public speaking? Get up on the stage now. And some guy got up. A tremendous stutterer got up and he spoke for a few minutes in front of the audience. And we just showed him the method and he eventually hired us. We haven't done his speech yet so I don't have that to show or to refer you to. But I would like a challenge like that someone who has one of your audience members who feels like they have their biggest fear. Let them reach out to you or reach out to us on our website Mike drop that one. Or they can email at us at info at Mike drop that one and say hey, I heard the podcast and I have this massive fear of public speaking. I'd like to be the test case. I love that by with you and if we can feature them and their talk I think would be amazing.

So good, so good. Thank you so much Ellie. This has been great.

Thank you.

Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review. I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable and come interact with me over on Instagram @nataliejofit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing Sam.