099: Awaken Your Potential with Stefanos Sifandos

Hi, I'm Natalie. Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback. On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Stefanos. Well, his social media accounts are one of those that I have marked as favorite. So I make sure not to miss a single post. You see daily. I find myself wanting to see what he's posting and wanting to share and screenshot and board them to pretty much everyone I know, especially my husband. I'm always thinking, wow, how does he know this? How did he see this? I mean, he has such an advanced awareness of masculine and feminine powers and how those work together and how they make a relationship thrive when the awareness about them are there. But I wanted to know, how did he gain this insight and awareness? I mean, was he born knowing this stuff? Well, I wanted to dig and I learned it was born out of pain. You see, Stephanos, he had a history of pain and abuse in his life, starting as a young child. And after experiencing his own rage, his own numbing out phases, even infidelity on his part, depression and suicidal thoughts, he decided things had to change. He went on a deep search. He learned, he studied, he worked with everyone that he could and he changed and he turned his pain into passion. Join in today and learn exactly how Stefanos leveled up, created everything from nothing. Today I'm leveling up. I'm here with my friend Stefanos. Stefan Dose. Did I pronounce that right? Stefanos. I'm just gonna call it out.

Yeah.

Did I pronounce it right? Okay. I was very nervous about that and I already botched it a couple times before we started recording. So I'm here with Stefanos and I met Stefanos because he's actually engaged to my friend who's been a past guest, Christine Hassler. And what really struck me interesting, why I wanted to interview him was I was following his social media posts and they were really speaking to me more than any other male's post. It was like he really got inside of what women need to know about men, about the psychology behind what they're thinking. And all of his posts were speaking to me. I found myself thinking, I need my husband to see this or I need my friend's Boyfriend to see this, and it was just really interesting. And when I really dug in, I saw that Stefanos is. He helps people really connect on a deeper level in relationships. But what's crazy is he wasn't born that way. It's not like he just came out of the womb getting what women need and understanding how to talk to us. He had a very different type of childhood. A lot of violence, a lot of abuse, and he had a lot of unsuccessful relationships in the past. So I was dying to jump in and talk with him today on how he got through his mess, making it his purpose, and how he has continually leveled up and helped so many others now level up and create everything from nothing. Thanks for being here today.

Thank you, Nelly, so much for having me. I'm super excited.

I'm determined to master how to pronounce your name by the end of this. So it is a tongue twister. But it. But you can't forget it. That's the thing. You can't forget that name.

That's true. Yeah. It is a tongue twister.

So, Stefano, take me back. Like when you were a little kid, what were you going through? Did you ever think you'd grow up doing what you do?

Today, I'm going to say. I'm going to say yes and no. I'm going to tell you why. Some of the earliest. The earliest images and thoughts I had once I became more acquainted with language, was to be the Secretary General. General of the United Nations. Oh, yeah, yeah. So from like 6 or 7 years old, I had this thought and this feeling. And Dr. John Demartini says our voids often drive our values. And so for me, I felt very isolated and very disconnected as a kid. And I felt very alone and not heard. I thought I had to wear masks to protect myself psychologically, emotionally, even physically. And so I figured if I could be. I saw the United nations as this entity that really served humanity. If I could be the secretary General, the leader of an organization like that, I could. I could remove pain. I could remove people's pain. Of course, I was very naive and very young. And as I grew up.

What a great intention. I love that vision and that intention.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very clear as well. Very, very clear. As a kid, I was obsessed with the United nations and obsessed with that and National Geographic that way, sort of traveling the world and being with nature. But essentially it was all about escaping my circumstances, which were violent, which were volatile, abusive, and just. And very, very confronting and scary as a kid.

Did you think that was Normal for a kid when you were having that happen with you or did you know there was something different going on in your family?

Both. Both. And see, so. And I say that because many of my friends shared similar cultural values and came from similar geographies. So that that European, that Greek, Italian, Croatian, Portuguese, and many of their families were violent and abusive and very volatile and abrasive and just harsh and hard. And so it made me that way. But later on in life, in the beginning, I was very passive and withdrawn. And so I looked at that, I thought this must be the norm. Everyone's very loud, everyone's very angry all the time. But then I'd watch, observe other families, and it wasn't necessarily the case. So I was in confusion as a kid.

What was your earliest memory of this as a kid? And did you think it was something you had done wrong? Did you know that this was something was just on your parents? What was the conversation you were having in your head?

From what I remember, I just felt very alone and very scared. And I had to be very quiet because the quieter I was, it maximized the chances that I wouldn't be hit or I wouldn't be screamed at or wouldn't be told I was wrong. And so I remember the earliest memories for me was really walking on eggshells that. I don't know if you have that saying here in the US but walking on eggshells. And so I had to be very careful and mindful of, and I became hyper aware of my environment. I remember when I was a kid, I. My senses became acute, particularly my hearing and my. My vision, because I was always bracing and ready for what's next. What's next? Unpleasantry.

Wow. So do you remember this as being like 3 years old or was this more like 5, 6, 7? Do you remember how old you were?

3, 3, 4, 5. Around that age. Yeah. I blocked out a lot for a long time. And then once I started dealing with that as an adult and going into the trauma and the wounding, I started excavating those memories. Peace with all of that as well. And I want to be very clear about something. I was also very blessed that I had, in other respects, an amazing family unit. And there were some really beautiful times and love shared there from extended family like my grandparents, uncles and aunties. And that was really just masked a great deal, or rather shadowed by the intensity of everything else that I was experiencing.

Yeah. Now, was this coming from both your parents?

Yeah, it was, but largely my father, larger than my father.

And then did you have siblings, also.

A younger brother and he's. I'm five years older than him, so.

Did you witness this happening to him as well?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Did you ever experience different type like, love from your dad because you're having this abuse? Did you ever have the opposite side of it? Were you. Did you see that ever?

Yeah, in glimpses. And that was the volatility and that was the confusing part. And as a child, when we're talking about attachment styles, that. That particular attachment style can be quite confusing because there is an element of love, there is an element of presence there, and there is. It's mixed in between all of this pain and suffering or projection and anger and so forth. And so that becomes quite confusing as a. As a kid.

Yeah, yeah. Did your mom see this with your dad? And what did you decide about that?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, they were. They were fighting massively. Massively. They were arguing and physically fighting and emotionally fighting all of the time, literally on a daily basis. There was tension amongst them or avoidance amongst them. I'm 37. They would have stopped. They probably stopped sleeping in the same bed. And they're still together when I was probably 10 or 11 years old.

Wow.

Yeah.

What did you form a belief around with your mom? Because I would imagine as a little kid, if your dad's hurting you physically and your mom is not doing anything about it, what. What did you decide about women or your mom then?

Well, that's interesting. See, I. I witnessed her try to do something about it.

Okay.

And it sometimes helped. Most of the time just caused more issues. And so my view of my mother was that she was more of a protector, but that she was incapable.

So she looks weak to you? Almost like weak. She doesn't know how to.

Yes, yes, interesting. Yes. And no times when she would be weak. And this is the confusing part, right? This is. This is the confusing part of self and other. And this is. This is more. We call it like a fearful avoidant on the cusp. More avoidant, insecure attachment style. And. And where there is, there is. Okay, yes, she's a protector and she's doing okay and she's doing well. But then other times, no, you're not, and you're not able to help me, you know, and process. That was very difficult as a kid. Really challenging because that's the confusing part. And it really just caused more issues because my father would then be volatile back. And then, of course, my mother was under so much stress that she. She would also project her needs, which is Called an enmeshment, an emotional enmeshment, or an emotional entanglement, where I became essentially a father and a father figure at an adult at a very young age. And so there was that complexity integrated into the dynamic as well. And this isn't an uncommon thing. People go through many.

Yeah.

Both females and males.

Yeah. What do you believe as an adult about your dad and that abuse? Have you changed your opinion about it?

Oh, absolutely. I've done a lot of. A lot of healing around that and reconciliation around that and what I understand now and again as a kid, but I've had to. I've had to do a lot of healing on that inner boy, on that inner child, that little kid, that little kid inside of me. Because as a kid, we don't understand that. We don't get that. Hey, my father was abused when he was young, and he was traumatized when he was young, and he didn't have the emotional coping strategies and the tools to deal with his excessive aggression and his rage and his anger and his abuse and trauma. A kid can't understand that as an adult. I get that, and I can reconcile that. But before I got to that logic, I had to. I mean, it was an. It was a parallel. I used that logic and understood that and really started to witness a little boy within him, but also healing a little boy within me and give it and nurturing and then fathering myself, essentially. This is a year. This is years of processing Stefanos.

I'm wondering what makes somebody go the direction you did versus. I see two other reactions with.

With you.

I. I see there's three reactions. I see. I see one. The ones that do the work and come out on the other end like, you. Okay. But then I also see two other extremes. I see one where the person themselves becomes very aggressive and an abuser. And in this. This tough man's world. And, you know, like, they. Where they think nobody should have feelings, nobody should have pain. And, like, look at me, I survived this. And they just get tougher and tougher and even repeat the pattern. And then I see another one of just a complete avoidance where. Return to alcohol, drugs, withdrawal, don't want to ever deal. Or. So I see these, like, extremes. What makes somebody go to one of the extremes?

What.

What do you think?

There I went. I went. Just as a side note, I went through all of. All of those.

Oh, really?

Yeah, that you just.

Do you think there's stages to that? Like, is one like the stage that most people like, I guess I'm trying To fit it into a black and white box, which is what I do. But is that, is there like sort of this. Is it like steps like you, like grievance would be?

Yeah. It's interesting what we do with the mind we try and put into boxes and frameworks, but that's the way the brain understands, we compartmentalize. Right. And we can do that to some extent, but it's not always, always black and white. And it can be a guidance system. And so one can lead to the other, but doesn't. And so we can go through the stages where there's a realization and it can lead to having done the inner work and equilibrated and neutralize those feelings and develop a new sense of being, a sense of self worth and understanding in the world and the way we relate to our trauma, ourselves, our pains and others. But before we can get there, we generally have to go through different stages. And so where we don't get to that, let's call it an end goal. Let's call it. The idea is that we neutralize our pain and we go through all our fears, work through that. Let's say that's the end goal. What would stop us getting there is that we're too entrenched in our habits and we're too stuck in our pain. And it's so unconscious for us, we cannot, we're so scared to move past it. And we will either become very hyper aggressive in the world to protect ourselves or we completely withdraw and we suppress and we oscillate and we ignore.

Yeah.

Feeling within. And, and so for me, I went through all those stages and, and but to answer your question, what got me from where I was to where I am, and I think this is reflective of the collective consciousness of humanity is I had to hit rock bottom multiple times and I was dragged, my face was dragged across the jagged edges of rock bottom multiple times before I can say, okay, I've had enough, it's time. I'm going to make some changes here. Like, and I mean real changes, not bullshit facade changes. Real change.

Yeah. Give me an example of one of the rock bottoms you said multiple times. But like, tell me what that was like.

Yeah, absolutely. So, and I'll go straight to the sort of the beginning of the end in a really good way, in a healthy way. And that was a number of years ago, about six years ago. So where I was in a relationship, an intimate relationship, romantic partnership with a woman and she found out that I was being unfaithful in that. And now that was a, that, that unfaithfulness for me was really a reflection of not having dealt with my stuff. And I can go into the details of that if you like. I'll do that later on, but I'll just, I'll just go into the answering a question. So when she found that out and I, I couldn't even tell her, I mean, and I was excessively being unfaithful. It was, it was spent a life in prostitution and being unfaithful and avoiding my stuff and really, really being aggressive and angry in the world and frustrated and agitated and very short tempered and just. And my ego was fragile and I was just. Intellectually I knew a lot, but. And even emotionally I was intelligent, but I couldn't integrate into the body. And so I just, I couldn't be the man I wanted to be. And so that frustration drove me. And what it drove was me being, living in the shadows, okay. And avoiding all of my stuff. And so when she found that out and I witnessed, I really saw the pain in her, in her face, in her being, in her body. And my actions had really contributed to that. I caused, I chose to be this way, be completely dishonest with myself and with her. That was, that was a tremendous revealing for me and an unraveling. And that was the beginning of the end of my old self. And I made a choice for the first time in my life to really go into my stuff, no matter what. Whether it meant suicide. And I was on the verge of suicide, suicide many times. Not because I lost her or was losing her and that was part of it, but more, more so because I was choosing to face all this pain and fear that I had suppressed for 30 years plus.

So you know who David Goggins is?

Yeah.

Okay. So I just read his book recently and his book has so many people saying how amazing it is and it is a great read. But what was coming up for me is I wanted to give him a hug because I just. It was like he had so much abuse, so much pain. And he just, he almost like formed this belief that that's love. So he keeps putting himself through pain, pain, pain, pain. And he wears it like this badge of honor, showing other men, like, you just have to put up with it and have the pain and stop being a wimp and, and all this stuff. And like knowing what you're talking about and going through work myself, like, I feel like he just needs a hug. Like he just, he wants someone to love that little boy. And so I, that's why I bring this up, like, I think there's such, these extremes of like this I gotta be tough. And that just feeds into this, this fake masculinity of like I have to be tough and a badass and like all feelings don't matter. Or this idea of avoidance and alcohol and drugs and contemplating suicide, even at its extreme. So like, how do we bridge that gap? Like, how do you get somebody to go to where you. Because there's so many that I see in those other two areas.

Yeah. So before, before we go there, I'll answer it in one word, then I'll expand on it. And before we are expanded, I'll just touch on something that you just mentioned. So the first how do we get there is willingness and also willingness and a desire, a desire to face ourselves and be whole, essentially. And I'll talk about wholeness and fracture and fragmentation in a moment. But this ability for men to be tough and be strong and resilient is actually absolutely necessary. The issue that we face in our society is that where it comes from is distorted. That's the problem. It comes from repressed pain and fear and unconscious unchecked aspects of self that need to be equilibrated and looked at. And so the masculine in one of its core essences is strong and vertical and powerful and has an ability to be resilient and push through and be tough. Our issue is that where it comes from, the come from in our society as generally speaking, is distorted and unhealthy and extreme. That's the issue. And so once we clean all that up within ourselves, and again, it's an ever ending journey, no end point per se. But once we clean up the bulk of that, the choice to be tough and to be strong comes from a very different place. And it's perceived and felt very differently as well. Well, and so I'm a big advocate of the masculine being in its strength, but being in its strength from a healthy position.

Okay.

And so I want to go back to willingness and desire for me. And again, I'm going to go back to what I said earlier. Around the collective consciousness. I don't think two things, change and transformation, can occur without deep pain and suffering can occur.

Okay.

However, however, the state of collective consciousness and where we are, I don't think it can at this point without pain and suffering. Once we move through deep pain and suffering, and if we absorb and learn and grow enough through that, then we can move through challenges and transformation without such intensity of pain and suffering.

Interesting.

Until then, until we clear all that up at a collective level and individual level, we're going to find that we're going to experience some pain, and that's okay. And we have to learn to be okay with that. For me, I had to surrender to. And this was extreme for me. I have an extreme personality, but this was my journey. I had to surrender to. I may die. I feel like I'm going to die. I'm losing all these parts of myself, these multiple ego deaths, my place in society, my status, my. My. My how people perceived me. I was lost financially. I. I went into massive, massive debt for me at the time, I lost my businesses. I went all in. Like, I lost. And I mean, I lost everything to gain everything.

When you say all in, like, I'm sorry, I want. I just want to dig a little. You said you lost your business financially. What does that mean? Like, how did you. What was going all in? Does that mean? Yeah. What does that mean?

This. It meant that I stopped working and spent hours every day on myself. Meditation.

Got it.

Spiritual healers, psychologists, counselors.

Okay. Personal.

Like, personal development, really learning.

Got it.

10 to 15 hours every day reading, whatever it was. And so whatever I did, I was cleaning toilets to make money.

Because you wanted, like, mindless work so you could, like, focus on learning.

Correct. And not only just learning, but healing and feeling. Learning, healing, feeling.

So what got you? Sorry, I have a million questions. I just want to make sure I'm following here. So, like, what makes you get to that? Like, where was that light bulb moment of like, okay, you know what? I get to focus on learning and doing this.

Like, this. I can't. I can't keep living in hiding. I can't keep pretending that I'm in a monogamous relationship and that I'm really happy when I'm. I'm dying inside.

Okay, so you went on a search to know what was causing this. Well, how do I fix it?

Yep. And I went deep into that. And the commitment I made to myself, the willingness that I made, that I had, that I carried in the commitment that I made, the desire that I had was, I'm all in, no matter what. If it kills me if I end up in a mental asylum, if I lose everything and everyone, my family, friends, I'm all in on this. Like, I don't. Wherever it takes. And I really surrendered to that. So you.

And there's that word. I love that listeners know I love the word surrender. And it's like every guest I have gets to that point of surrender. They mentioned that word. So that's such a killer word.

Scared of that word. It's.

No, I'm getting attacked on me. Yeah, it's. So when you what when you were doing that, I'm assuming you had to shut off a lot of the ego talk. Like you had to shut off the people pleasing. You had to shut off what other people thought and opinions. Is that, can you walk us through that?

Yes. And so I shut it off and I gave a voice because I didn't want to suppress it. And that's what I mean by surrendering. Is that, is that liberation? Like I surrendered to the ego speaking and giving it a voice instead of saying, you're ugly, I'm going to hide you. And I had to listen to it long enough to allow it to dim down to the sound of it and the loudness of it to come right down. And then I was able to create spaciousness in myself and hear different versions of my own reality and what was possible. But I had to hear that ego voice first. And I then had to make a choice once I heard it and say to myself, that's enough now. I don't need to hear you anymore. Thank you.

Can you talk into. Because I know some people listening know what you mean when you bring up ego. And some people have no idea what we're talking about. Can you in your words, what does ego mean? What does it come from? And why is this such an important concept to understand?

Yeah, and it's at its simplest, at its simplest form. It's not so much about vanity and, and narcissism, it's more about. Or self absorption, hyper selfishness. It's more about how we identify with the world. The labels we place on our. How, how we, how we, you know, I'm a man, I'm. I have black hair, I'm Caucasian or I mean I look Caucasian. And my DNA doesn't necessarily say that. You know where I'm coming with this. You know, I'm a middle class, I live in this. It's how we identify, you know, what our values are, what makes us happy, what makes us sad, what we fight for, what we believe in, et cetera, et cetera. The ego self is all the forms of identity that we have attached to ourselves and that we've compiled over the years. You know, I'm a brother, I'm a, I'm an unc. Etc, the labels, the titles, all of that. These are my dreams, these are my visions. Etc, Etc, Etc. So it's that, it's. That's the ego self. Is how we relate to ourselves, our environment.

And I believe the ego self protects us too, because that's one that carries the pain. And you know, so it. Like I. To me, I used to look at somebody that was all those earlier words you use that self, absorb, narcissist, all those things as just that. Now I look at them as like they're wounded. That that's. That is their ego. Like that's their way of protection. Like them bragging, them showing up this way. That is a protection. Not them.

Yeah, the ego, it's. It's not what's interesting that you say it's not them. And Veda Vedantic philosophy would say that anything that you're observing is not you. So if you're observing your ego, you are not your ego. And Matt Khan says the ego. I heard Matt Khan say, I don't know if it's his, but the ego is. It is the soul in its infancy. And so if we were to look at the soul, we wouldn't think the soul is against us, we would think the soul is for us. And so the ego is learning its way in the world. And it's exactly what you said. It's here to protect us. The harsh tonality. The harsh in the voice. You can't do this. You shouldn't do that. It's not saying that. That voice inside our head is not saying that to deter us from achieving greatness. It's preempting failure. And so it's taking the easiest route and saying if you don't try, you won't fail. You won't feel the disappointment. You won't experience the pain of the loss and the suffering and abandonment and the rejection, the humiliation. Best we don't go there. And that's that negative voice sometimes. Yeah, it just. It's in its infancy. It's immature. It doesn't understand. And so we can have this dialogue with the conscious and the unconscious self within. And to. Only to get to that point though you. We have to. And this is what I did for me. We have to make all of those parts of ourselves seen and visible.

Yeah, do that.

We have to have an acceptance that. That. Wow, that again. The brain compartmentalizes. Hey, that's really ugly within me. But I'm also okay with that. And can I be compassionate with that? Society says it's ugly, me being hyper aggressive, but maybe it's something within me that's telling me something about who I truly am deeper in that.

Wow, I love that.

And really honor that part of Me.

So you went deep into the work, really learning, trying to unravel, uncover, figure out this part of you. And when did you start coming out on the other side? And how did you. Because you clearly turned this pain into a purpose with what you do now. How long of a process? And when was that moment? What was that turning point? When you're. When you got it, you're like, you know what? I'm ready to kind of come back. And I mean, clearly you met Christine after, like, was there a moment of this change? Was there music? Tell me what happened there.

Yeah, a number of different moments. And it was ongoing for a few years. Where was. I was sort of in and out of it. Not. Not necessarily in and out of the work. I was always in the work, but in and out of the intensity. And then after that breakup, I was. I was purposely single for a while, and. And that was. That was really healthy for me and again, just continue to deep dive. Then I met another woman. That was a beautiful relationship for the most part, really. We were together for about a year, and I was a very different person in that relationship, but still working through old stuff internally. But how I showed up was transparent and honest, and I was very clear, and that was a very, very different version of me. But then when we broke up, and that was a conscious uncoupling when we broke up, that brought up a lot of stuff again for me in terms of unworthiness and not being enough and not knowing where I really was in life. Even though I had clarity on my purpose and my path, it felt disjointed because I felt like my world was collapsing again. And. And so I went deep into darker shadow stuff and really started understanding the. The balance and the dichotomy and the harmonization of masculine feminine energies and what that meant for men, for women, for humanity, for us, for sovereignty, for sentience, for consciousness. And. And again I went. It's like, the more we know, the less we know. And I opened up Pandora's box, and that was. That was deeply, deeply challenging. That was a couple of years ago. And so that was immensely, immensely painful. In fact, that was probably more painful than six years ago because of what came from that in terms of what I unearthed from the depths of me.

So talk to us about what those mean to you now, because I know there's a lot of stuff on the interweb about masculine, feminine, a lot of people talking into this, and I feel that people either hear it it or they roll their eyes at it. So can you Give us like a little bit of an education on that. Like, what does that mean? And why is it important for the feminine to have the feminine energy and the masculine to have the masculine?

Yeah, I speak to Officer Michaela. Bomb speaks to this. She speaks. She worked with David data for nearly 20 years or so. And. And so she speaks to masculine. Feminine can be translated as. As do and be energies or go and flow energies.

Okay.

Essentially, it's just. They're just expressive states that exist within every human being. So women have. Doing energy is a masculine energy. You right now you're doing in your business, building a business. We have been doing a business. Sometimes it's a masculine energy. Does that mean that you're a man or that makes you masculine? No. Does that make your core essence masculine? No, not necessarily at all. And there's various expressions of core essence as well. It's something that's not very. Not really understood a great deal in this space of personal growth and transformation. It's something that we're. It's something that's been around for a long time in terms of the ancients understanding the polarity and duality that exists within human expression. But we're still trying to grasp that at a fundamental pragmatic level. What does it mean how we interact with each other? And so something I like to explain to people is I work a lot with women, so I work with women and really helping them call in their man, understand masculine energy as well, whilst whilst also understanding femininity. Not that I can tell a woman how to be a woman. I'm not a woman woman, or how to optimize her womanhood, but I can shed a great deal of insight and revelation into masculinity and men and harmonizing polarity as well. And so I say to every. Every time I ask this question, very simple question, when your man does something for you, when your man organizes dinner or a date night or whatever it is, when he does that, when he takes charge and takes lead, how do you feel?

Yeah, I love it. I mean, like, I want to call Brooks in the room to hear this right now. Yeah, like, love it. Like, for me.

Well, you're not isolated. You're. You're 99.9 of all women. And so when you're in your feminine, you want to be led. That doesn't mean that you're being led from a place or incapability or you're not intelligent enough, capable enough. In fact, it's the exact opposite. Surrender to that means that you trust yourself and the person that you're with enough to be led. That's a feminine energy to be led. That doesn't mean men can't be led. If you look at the military, there are many men that are led. Sure. Right. And so in a sense, quote unquote, they're in a feminine energy. Not a bad thing. Sometimes we need to be led in small tribes of bands of men or hunter gatherers. There are times where each man will take lead, and so their energy exchange is changing as well. And I say this, I've never really given that example before, but I say this to help people understand that it's not about men lead and women are subservient. It's got nothing to do with that. Zero to do with that at all. But when we're understanding these energies, we have core essences. So, for example, you can have a physical core essence of either being masculine or being feminine. And so a physical core essence for a masculine would be to really harden and sharpen the body, to make the body an instrument and a tool for physical preparedness. That's a masculine core essence in the physical body, whereas a feminine core essence in the physical body would be more fluid. You'd be attracted more to dancing and movement and flow, and that's more your core essence. And it's about nurturing the physical body body. It's about giving life and sustenance to the physical body as opposed to using it as a solid instrument for achievement. Again, the domain of the masculine is achievement, is completion, is doing energy. And so we have to call on these energies in various times in our life because circumstances dictate that we need various energies. And so as a woman, as a man, it's very important to identify what your core essences are. So I help people do that and also remain true to yourself. And someone like David Data would say that if you're a man, your core overall essence is going to be masculine, 70, 80% masculine, and the rest is going to be feminine. And a healthy individual will be able to transition between those as they need to. And for the woman, it's opposite as well. I'm not sure if that's completely true in that regard. However, I do align with the ethos of that from what I observe in the world, what I see, what I. What I hear women telling me they want and men telling me they want as well.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting, I would say from a personal standpoint, if, if I had heard this conversation a couple years ago, I would have thought, you're Crazy. I was like, what is he talking about? But now I'm completely aligned just through my own relationship with my husband. Seeing that when we were not in the right. Those right roles, and there wasn't polarity, the issues that it created, and we've come a long way. And that doesn't mean I don't do. Or he doesn't be like all of that, but it's just being really aware of what is needed for that polarity.

Yeah. But again, if you were stuck in this energy of achieving and completion, and it's all about your business and it's not about the relationship and you're in this.

Which I was for years. Which I was stuck there for years. Yeah.

That would deter him as a man. And if he's consistently say indecisive. Not that. Not that being indecisive is a feminine trait, but in the flow, saying, hey, why don't you decide, Natalie? You just. You. You make the choice.

Which is what he did. Yeah, exactly.

Why put you. Yeah.

Yes.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Me and Brooks have totally embraced this concept, and I think there's a lot to be said for it. But it's just interesting. I know I will share, when I've written on social media, any part of this. There's a lot of controversy that comes at me, like, with the feminists, whatever, all this stuff. And I'm like, no, they don't. I just see it as. They don't understand yet. They don't understand.

People are scared of losing their sovereignty and their empowerment. We have to understand. There's been. There's been great feminine oppression for a hell of a long time.

Yes.

And so as women are coming into their power culturally, socially, economically, geopolitically, et cetera, there's a fear around we're going to lose that power again. But it's. See, and this is where we're stuck. We're stuck on these power struggles. Struggles when we're coming from places of fear. But it's very, very much understandable that the masculine energy as a collective has been quite oppressive. It hasn't been in its healthy expression.

Right.

As a collective, generally speaking. And again, that's also changing as well. Men are changing. Men are learning how to be. And I love. I love the bottle you've got says man up.

It's not mine. It's from Bedros. He gave that to me.

I have a different take on Manning up. I did a video on him, but. Because Manning up as a stigma.

Yeah, he gave me that bottle.

Yeah. No, no, that's his. I've got his book here as well. And so what we're finding is that we're learning how to be in our healthy states and still be empowered and not have a fear of losing our power. Yeah, I mean, this is a very complex issue that we're speaking to. I love that you're bringing it up and I love the questions that you're asking as well. And it's going to take time for us to come into a. You know, I always think, remember what I said earlier, around extremes, around hitting rock bottom, because that's an extreme up here swinging. Right. And so this pendulum is swinging where we've had massive oppression for a long time, and now the tides are somewhat changing and they're moving into extreme polarity again. And I think it sort of needs to before it can come back into a greater harmony and balance and both men and women can live not only in greater harmony, but in greater. In greater sovereign individual and collective truth. Truth with how they treat each other and themselves.

Yeah, I like that. So here's what's coming up for me now, too. So, like, take one of the women, for instance, that you dated before that you said you didn't know all this and you, you betrayed them. You. All the stuff that you. You are owning. So, like, if she was sitting here right now, would she be rolling her eyes like, you can't change.

Like what? Talk.

Speak into that a little. Because I do believe people can change. Change when they have this complete shift and they really go back and do the work and rewire old thought patterns. But can you speak into that? Because I know there's people listening right now that are either in a relationship like that or they've left one and they. They're in this. People don't change. Can you speak into that?

Yeah, it's a beautiful question. The, the answer to your question directly is I don't know what they would say. And they very may roll their eyes, they may not. And it's really going to depend on their own personal disposition and their beliefs and their experiences with me from their perspective and what they've gone through and what they've chosen to equilibrate, forgive, not forgive, work through, look at the reflection of that dynamic and look at it in their own lives and say, what's my role? How's this affected me? Why am I here? Why did I choose this at some level? Why did he behave that way? How can I forgive him? Do I want to forgive him? Do I need to forgive him? Do I Forgive myself? Why do I need to forgive him? I mean, there's a myriad questions that would be asked here, and to answer that, I don't know. Depends, really. In short, it depends on the inner work they've done on themselves. But I agree with you. People do change, and people can transform. And I've seen it not only in myself. I've experienced and felt it fully, but I've also seen it in so many other people. When there's a willingness there and people have the tools and the inspiration to change or the motivation or both. People do transform, and people do shift deeply. And it does require patience and compassion and time. And what I will say to that is what I've experienced over the years and what I've witnessed, because I've been open to it, is this immense compassion that I've also experienced with Christine. This immense compassion and understanding where the feminine is meeting the masculine, saying, not only do we forgive you, but we see you and we. We understand you and we do forgive you, and let's create this world together. And that is these women that are healing themselves and healing the planet in doing so. And that's part of my French fucking epic. On every level, Natalie. On every level. And that, for me, is so humbling. I couldn't see that before because I wasn't open to that. And when I see it now, it's so humbling that it inspires me more to go deeper into my own self and say, how can I show up as the man I want to be in this world? On every level. Level.

Yeah. That's really. That's. That's super powerful. Do you ever feel triggers from past behaviors come up for you?

Yeah. Oh, yeah, Regularly. I mean, I have happened. Yesterday. Yesterday I was. I was just. I'm just in a space right now where I've got a lot of great things going on in the world. In my world, Christine and I, both of us, amazing opportunities. And I'm. I'm just sort of upper leveling. I'm upper limiting, you know, And I'm at an expat. I'm at a place in my life where I'm expressing myself where I haven't in this way before. And it's really beautiful, and it's also confronting, and it's overwhelming. And I feel, you know, it's interesting. You know, we all have our strong points, and I don't say necessarily weaknesses, but aptitudes that we're not as effective at. And so some. You put me in a crisis situation. I'm very different to when we're talking about business overwhelm, you know, and again, I'm efficient with business overwhelm. It's just that there's so much going on at the moment. There's so many opportunities that I'm juggling all that. I'm doing a lot of traveling. That's really what it is. I mean, I, I was in Europe. I'm going to Australia in a few days, which is like a surprise visit. And it's just for my family and friends. I'm just doing a lot of traveling in Dallas tomorrow. There's just a lot on. And so yesterday I felt myself becoming really agitated and frustrated and I became not only so much hypersensitive, but very short tempered. My fuse was short. And so no matter what Christine said or didn't say, I would be. I would snap at her. Not so much snap at her, but I would, it just, I would just take it to the nth degree. I felt that coming up and we were, we were, we were hitting some tension and I said to her, okay, I need to break this. So give me a moment. Go inside in the garage. Please go inside. Close the door. And I've got a boxing bag out there. And I just, I was screaming and primal screaming and getting me moving the energy physically through my body, which I didn't have that tool years ago. I didn't know how to do that. And I start. I did some breath work I did of moving through that and I felt better. I broke the pattern. And Tony Robbins speaks a lot about this around speaking patterns of physiological pattern. Change your state. And so I did that, but I did that with a very clear intention of. I don't want to be this man that just gets frustrated because I'm feeling overwhelmed because in certain situations that's not how I am. Why am I like this now?

Yes. And the worst thing, and if she had not worked on herself and known and she had said like, oh, here you go, your old patterns, it just was triggered it even more correct. So it's like, I think it's important for both people to really know and be able to work through that because, yes, you'll recognize it. And the goal is to shift faster. Not to like have it never happen, but I think that other person needs to be aware and supportive of it, like you said, in that feminine energy. Or you're going to just keep it going. Because she could have egged it on too. It could have made it work.

Of course. Yeah. No. And she did not. She was very compassionate. Very calm. And she didn't feed that in because what. What happens is, is our intimate relationships are reflections of what we did and did not receive, both consciously and unconsciously. Primary caregivers and Harville Hendricks speaks a great deal to this, and I absolutely admire and honor his work. It's amazing, amazing work in the field. Getting the love you find. Keeping the love you find. There are a couple of his books, and he's a boss in this space, him and his wife. Really beautiful couple. And so understanding. That lets us know that we don't need to project right now. We don't need to throw our stuff onto the other person because it's really our stuff. And that's something that I learned over the years. I couldn't master it as a kid, as a teenager, as a young adult, really couldn't master until I got into my 30s. Really wasn't that long ago. And even now, it's still. What you said earlier, it's about moving through it quickly. I don't think we'll ever stop experiencing stuff until we're completely itemed. And that's a complete other kettle of fish and a complete other conversation. There's so many. There's varied perspectives on what that is. Anyway, otherwise, it's healthy. It's healthy to move through stuff and then. And let stuff come up that's painful and triggering and move through it quickly because that's character building.

Totally. And I'll tell you, there's been times, because Brooks and I are both so committed to this work, but we'll. We'll have that same kind of. Both of our stuff is coming up and we'll find ourselves in an argument. But it's. Our ego is in an argument. It's not. It's not our work. So. So I think it's just. We just are kind to ourselves. Like, we know that that happens. And it's like, okay, what do we learn from that? How do we get through that next time?

Yes. Yeah. And you're right. The ego, it's the. It's trying to latch onto a particular way of being because. Or a belief system and expressing that and get validated in that. And so it fights for the validation because it wants to be right. Because that's a safety and a familiarity.

I love that. Okay, so this is the question I ask everybody that's on the show. And I'm curious your take on this. So somebody's in their own personal rock bottom right now, so maybe they are not where you are with the work, which I Think a lot of people, but they're in their own personal rock bottom. So maybe they just their relationship ended or they're at their financial rock bottom, or they're at that perfect beginning as you would view it now, but they don't see it that way. If you were to give them three pieces of advice on things that they could start doing or believing or shifting or experiencing right now to start changing their mindset so they can level up and create everything from nothing, what would you tell them?

I have a six step cyclical model that I use and I give to people to help them through difficulty and challenge and adversity. And I'll pull three from that. Very simple, very simple tools from that. In no particular order. Surround yourself with people that you trust, respect and revere. Surround yourself with a support group, whether that's professional, whether that's emotional, like family, friends, or both. But really seek help. That was a game changer for me. For me, seeking help and bowing down, humbling myself to my ego and saying, I don't need to do all of this on my own. And having people that could just hear me and support me and help me and provide me with tools was a game changer. Okay, the second I would say is spend time in nature every day. And if you live in the big city, then get to a park, just be with nature, get to a beach, be in a mountain, just be in nature as often as possible, ideally daily. Okay? And couple that with some silence and stillness and just being silence and stillness in that moment, nothing else matters but where you are. So keep coming back to present moment awareness because worry is debilitating. And the next thing I'd say is exercise. And obviously, and I say this for a couple of reasons. One, because I know your audience, I know you're very big proponent of physical movement, as am I, but you've got to exercise for a number of reasons. One, because hormonally it's good for you. The brain chemistry that occurs and is released in our body, the feel good hormones, all of that, it just makes, makes us feel better and gives us some reprieve.

Yeah.

And it just really just that it just feels good. And if you can do that with friends, if you go for a run and you can do that in nature as well, like go for a run with a couple of friends in nature. Perfect. Keep coming back to that practice. And so why I say daily is because you want to ground in some familiarity, which gives you a sense of stability and it doesn't feel like your whole world is just the ground beneath you is turning to dust and quicksand. And so having stability and regularity in your life, such as a training schedule, spending time in nature, spending time with friends and loved ones, seeing a therapist every week, whatever it is, it's grounding and there's some familiarity and stability and that's really helpful when you're during rock bottom. And just as a bonus thing, be patient. Nothing lasts forever. It's all impermanent. It really is. I know that's hard to but keep telling yourself. I mean I had in my old house I had had a big mirror. It was just a big mirror in this bedroom. And I wrote on it in impermanent mark, not permanent like impermanent like whiteboard marker. I wrote all these aphorisms down and these ideas that I wanted to keep referring to and I would forget and one of them was this pain is impermanent. This is happening for me, not to me. And I remind myself of that multiple times a day because that narrative, I wanted that narrative to not only be destitute and being debilitated and being in pain, but I also wanted to be intelligently hopeful and I wanted to be able to connect to oh, there's something else beyond just what I'm experiencing here.

So good, so good. Where can people find you if they want to work with you, if they want to follow you? Where did they go?

Yeah, so my website, stephanosofandos.com or Instagram, Facebook or YouTube Stefanosafandos and I'm sure we put it the voice in the show because it's not exactly the easiest name to spell or pronounce and follow.

His Instagram or Facebook. He posts amazing, amazing content in on both of those.

Thank you.

Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review, I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable. And come interact with me over on Instagram @nataliejofit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.