179: Fitness Made Simple with Landon Hamilton from FitPlan App

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Landon Hamilton is co founder and CEO of one of the fastest growing fitness apps around, Fit Plan App globally. With over 7 million downloads, Fit Plan App partnered with fitness industry giants like Alex Rodriguez. Fit Plan has created a community of 50 plus athletes that are industry leaders with over 150 million folks followers, including athletes like Michelle Lewin, big names like Jen Selter, Mike o', Hearn, to name a few. And I'm also honored to be one of their athletes. Now, I love the app, the company and how they help their users with huge transformations. But today I wanted to know more about how Fit Plan app was born and how did it grow so fast and how did they deal with competition, negative reviews, and even naysayers at the beginning to become now and an industry giant. Join in today and learn exactly how Landon Hamilton and Fit Plan App leveled up creating everything from nothing. Today I'm so excited because I'm here with Landon Hamilton who is the co founder and CEO of Fit Plan App and I have so many questions for him. I had met him a while ago. I ended up creating content for the app platform which I love, but I had so many questions like how did he even get into this? How did he start it? How did he build an app that is so successful and really taking over the whole fitness industry as far as top apps? Because I hear people all the time say they want to create an app, but I wanted to know how did he do this? How did he get so successful so fast? So thank you so much for being here today, Landon.

Well, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

So Landon, take us back. I mean, I'm assuming maybe 10, 15 years ago you didn't know that you were going to be creating a top app like this. Where did you start out and how did you get into this?

Well, I started, I started my entrepreneur journey at about the age of 25. Actually. I got fired from a job where I was a really successful promoter at a nightclub and I got let go because of some political incidents that had happened and that kind of just kick started Me to kind of come up with something new where I could create value. And I ended up purchasing one of the largest nightclubs in Canada. And then we had done really well from there. We'd done about almost a million dollars within 100 or so days. And from there I ended up buying another venue, which was a Martini lounge that I turned into a modern sports bar. And then from there I started doing music concerts. I put on quite a few, like back in 2009, 2010, LMFAO was big. We brought in quite a few DJs like Avicii, Cascade, Stevenoki. And then from there I started moving into more outdoor events, snowboarding events, golf tournaments, music festivals. And from there I actually, I'd gone to school for interface design and I'd gone to school for video production, but I hadn't done anything with it because I just kind of got into the nightclub industry. But for the music festival, I thought it would be really compelling to make a mobile app so you could, you know, as if you've ever gone to a festival today. Almost all of them have apps now. But I was really early to that. So that was in 2010. I made a mobile app for a festival I was putting on.

So Lana, back up one minute here because so you kind of, you said that so quick. Like we made a million dollars, you know, in a few weeks or. And then we went into this. You had almost like unusual success in the nightclub industry. Did you realize that as unusual success or like, was this you just expected that or tell me that because you said that it was like, wow, I don't know that many people would have that kind of success so quick. So obviously there was something to. To it that you had mastered.

I really, really understood the marketing side. And actually one of the other keys that actually ended up applying to what we do today is that I built a lot of ambassadors. It was almost like influencers before that was ever coined as a term. But I built these. This is very early days of social media. So I built these people that would promote, you know, the nightclub. And it just done really well with it. So, yeah, the success I spoke about in the nightclub industry, we did that with zero marketing dollars. It's amazing now. So I was actually really, really good at the marketing side. I was really good at the promotion side. Operationally, we were a little bit of a mess as a lot of first time entrepreneurs may. That may resonate with.

Yep.

Yeah. And then, and then from there we wanted to expand. We were having a lot of fun and we were really good success. So when we could plug in complementary businesses, we would jump at that opportunity. Yeah, so, but I, but I really got into the mobile app development, you know, through this first music festival that I put on from that. Other festivals had taken notice of me developing this app and asked me to develop one for them. So that kind of had. And at that point, like I was approaching almost 30 years old and I was kind of getting over the lifestyle that went along with the nightclub industry. I was always really into fitness and even eating healthy, but I was holding myself up till 4am most nights. I was drinking way more than I should have. So at that point I was looking for a way out. And slowly I exited business by business and I turned to focus on mobile apps. And the first ones were building festival apps for other festivals and then just really getting my feet wet in the app industry. So I made several different. If you remember the early app stores, there's a lot of novelty apps. I was making a lot of different things like that and I had some success with some of those. But pretty quickly I realized fitness. Like I said, it was a really important part of my life. But I. But I'd gone through this evolution where I started at the gym with Discman and that eventually turned into an MP3 player or an ipod. And then eventually I had a BlackBerry where I kept track of notes. It wasn't just my music player. I had chat groups where a few friends and I would keep each other accountable, sharing our results, sharing our workouts. So when the iPhone dropped, I kind of seen the intersection of like, this is more than just a music player for the gym. This could be. Be a lot more. So in 2012, my co founder, Cam Speck, and I started working on a fitness app. So this is again, pretty early, and fitness apps were not a trend early on. They were kind of in the category of apps. Fitness was not one of the hot ones. It was actually one of the lower performing categories generally. And so the first approach we had to our mobile app was simply a workout program, but we didn't use anyone of notoriety. We just kind of hired a model, performed the exercises, and a good friend of mine had started using the app and he said, you're saving me a lot of money on a personal trainer. But I find myself going back to that trainer once a month or so because he's a friend of mine and I kind of missed the camaraderie side of it. And he, he told me something that really stuck with me. He said, you took the personal out of personal training. So that, you know, at first, as a. As an. A lot of entrepreneurs, me, you know, do as I kind of gave him like the. You don't know shit. You'll see.

Yeah.

But, you know, a few weeks later, I ended up at a fitness convention. And this is in 2013, actually, it might have been early 2014. And, you know, our first app had been, you know, had moderate success. Remember, there was no subscriptions in the app store, so it was a lot of 99 cent downloads and stuff like that, and we weren't any different. But I landed at this fitness expo and there's a lot of people there, like 80,000 people. But I noticed one thing that stuck out to me. There was one lineup to meet this one person, and her name was Michelle Lewin. At the time, she only had a couple hundred thousand people on Instagram, but she had like over a thousand people waiting to meet her. And I seen it was a lot of women. Women were in tears, couldn't wait to take their selfie with her. And I seen the personal side that my friend had referred to as missing.

Wow.

So actually I went right up to her and pitched her on our business and said, hey, we'd love you to join us. You could be the face of our app. This is sort of impromptu. I didn't have this planned, but I offered her six figures to join us. I said, you'll be a partner in the company. And she actually said, no hablo English. At the time, she had just moved from Venezuela and she knew very, very little English. She pointed me to her husband, who she referred to as her manager, Jimmy Lewin. And Jimmy told them, we're not really interested right now. And they weren't comfortable partnering with any American companies at that point. They were just fresh in the country. So that was sort of the initial inspiration that took place there. From there, I grew up in Canada, so we went back up to Canada and kind of went back to the drawing board and rethought our business. And we had done a lot of research in the industry. We knew that this would take off eventually and how could we be best positioned for it? So I created. We created a business model that we thought could work for the partners we want to work with. And the inspiration we really took was Spotify's business model. And they really created the must have in the category. It was everything you needed in music all in one place. And we just asked ourselves, can we do that in fitness? And how can we bring on the very best fitness personalities to Work with us. So we came up with a business model and started talking to influencers and top trainers on social media. And pretty soon we started signing some deals, and people had started showing interest. And then after four nos, Michelle and Jimmy reached out to me and said, hey, you still making that app? We should talk. And the next morning, I got on a flight to Miami and met with them. And then from there, we engaged in a partnership. And Michelle had kind of. We had noticed she was, like, really growing fast. She was growing like 12 or 15,000 followers a day at that time. So even in the few months it took me to sign her, she was already at about 650,000.

Wow.

And, yeah, so we launched just over three years ago. I think we had eight or nine trainers on our platform. But the industry had taken notice, and a lot of different influencers and fitness personalities started reaching out, asking to join. And, yeah, that's. That was the early foundations of where we got to what we're doing today.

So I have so many questions, and I want to kind of back out to first and foremost, like, you obviously are a serial entrepreneur and very good at it. You're not somebody who just has an idea and then quits. Like, you, apparently, you took, like, the letting. Getting let go in the industry of the nightclubs, and you turn that into, like, opportunity after opportunity, and you keep building on that. Where did that skill set come from? Like, were you like that as a kid, as a teenager?

Like, what did you.

What did you learn from your parents that made you do that? Can you take us back a little there? Because not everyone has that in them.

Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. A little bit about my background. I grew up in the middle of Canada called Saskatchewan, so central Canada in a really small town. My mom had four kids by the time she was 21, and then she got divorced.

Wow. Okay.

And then she. We ended up hopping around, moving in with different boyfriends she had. Sometimes she would have another child with that individual. And so I actually have 11 brothers and sisters.

11.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And we moved a lot. I moved in my K through 12. I went to 12 different schools. So I think one thing that really helped me with is it made me really adaptable. You know, I'd go to one school one year, and I'd be the, you know, the biggest nerd in class, made fun of all the time. I'd move to the next school next year, and, you know, I learned to be adaptable, and I was one of the more popular kids in class. So I seen it just made me extremely adaptable. I think that.

But it also. I'm imagining it also made you crave consistency, and maybe that is why you stay consistent with things in building.

I think part of it is we grew up really, really poor. We were on welfare most of my life. And I think it was part of the initial spark was like the fear of being a failure or fear of being poor or living the way I did during that time. I kind of started trusting the fact that where you are today is not necessarily where you're going to be. So I just really got creative really quick. And then I went to school. I happened to go to school for the right thing. At the time when I was going to school for what became mobile app development. They really told us they don't know what it's going to be, but it's going to be really big. This is in 2000, 2001, obviously. It really did turn into something that's quite big.

Totally. So how. Okay, so that explains a lot about your drive. And I believe. I believe that was your. Let me ask you, Lana, was your father in the picture or was it just your mom as the consistent person growing up?

No, my father until I was about five years old when they got divorced. I didn't see my father very much until there was some drama on my mother's side. And then she sent me to live with my father for a few months. And then, and then, and then soon she took me back and she had a new man in her life and they had decided that I wasn't allowed to see my father anymore. So I actually went through from about 10 years old till about 21 or 22 when I had moved out, was in college without my father, and I reconnected.

Wow. So the influence on the. Being an entrepreneurial really came from, it sounds like from circumstance, from you wanting a different way. It wasn't necessarily from a parent saying, you can do this. You've got this in you. So it came from you wanting to create stability and predictability and financial wins, I'm assuming.

Yeah. It's partly that I'm also dyslexic, so I don't work well for others, which is, It's, It's. It's a common trait of dyslexic people. I at least know when I go into a, you know, if I'm given a new job, I immediately start questioning everything and it's usually not a good way to start a first job. So. So, I mean, I had 30, I think I tried to count the other day, it was like 30 or 35 jobs in my life, almost all of them. I didn't last more than three months, other than two. And both of those two, I ended up eventually being fired. And that kind of started, you know, it really kick started like, hey, you gotta, you gotta figure out your own path here and your own way.

Yeah, that's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing because if you think about the amount of people that if they are fired or they're having that inconsistency that they almost give up and say, okay, I'm not cut out for things, but you took the. This became like your wind. It became like the thing that drove you.

Yeah, I think it was the second time when I had gotten let go from the nightclub, I got. I'd come across something from Tony Robbins and he said, how does this worst circumstance actually. The best circumstance. How is this actually the best thing that happened to you? And really rethinking, you know, the circumstance and how turning something that seems terrible into an opportunity.

Yeah, that's pretty powerful. And that's been my experience of you. And I wanted to dive a little bit into that because so not only so you got into the app world at a good time. However, there was a lot of setbacks, not necessarily with yours specifically, but I've seen it happen. Like, how did you handle that when like all of a sudden there's all these other people doing fitness apps or when you had the tech glitches because there's so much tech stuff when it comes to an app, or there were people unhappy with it. How did you keep focus on your vision with those setbacks happening?

Yeah, I mean, it's just really a lot of perseverance because launching a tech product, you're kind of hypothesizing a lot of what you think would be the best for you, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily best for them. And once you creating something, from initial screenshots to actually getting it in your hand to start using it, there's some differences start happening. And then it does cost a lot of money to develop a mobile app, and especially a very good one. So it does take iteration. Customer feedback. We had early on bootstrapped our first, you know, product and even through signing some of our trainers. And then eventually it came to the point where we had to raise money and really build the team. And then over the course, and we ended up raising a fair bit of money, I think we're about 16 or 17 million dollars. Into the company at this point. And obviously that's just, it's just slow milestones. The first couple checks are $10,000, $20,000 until obviously last year, in 2019, we raised $4.5 million from Alex Rodriguez, Mark Masteroff, and some really top venture capitalists in the industry.

Was that a scary thing for you to go down that road and ask for that and to give up percentages? And how did you learn how to do that? Because I'm also thinking of people listening right now that they have a great idea, they want to start something and they want to create it, but they run into what you did. Like they really need those funds to grow. How did you even learn skills? And was that scary for you?

Yeah, it was a lot of learning on the job. I think, you know, a lot of first time CEOs, it's the whole every day is learning on the job, even today. You know, I've never operated a full team at this scale. I've never managed this many, you know, from employees to investors to the trainer partners that we work with. So a lot of learning on the job. And really it's just, you know, perseverance and, you know, having belief in yourself. And there's good days, there's bad days. Kind of continue to persevere and kind of stay true to your vision. And, you know, I have a lot of exercises and practices that help with that, you know, from meditation. Obviously exercise is a huge key to that. Yeah, I read an insane amount. I've read close to 500 books in the last four or five years.

Oh, wow. So very heavy on the personal development and really working on yourself so you can be in the position to handle that stuff.

Yeah. And that's the one thing that I realized that if I wanted to remain the CEO of this company, then I would really have to level up because I felt like I was starting behind. I'm not an experienced CEO. I was younger than the average CEO. So if I wanted to remain the best person for this job, I'd really have to level up and hurry up.

Totally.

I really, really invested in myself, my education, you know, from there's so much great content on YouTube, podcasts and. Yeah, written. Written or audiobooks.

What? So when you first asked somebody for money, was that a hard thing to do? Like, was that a hard decision to say, hey, I'm going to go out and get an investor or. Because I think a lot of people will stop at that. They're like, well, I don't want to bring on investor. I Don't want to bring on people that are going to have shares, or was that a hard conversation? And how did you learn that skill to even go ask for that?

Well, I think first you have to really believe that you're going to be able to make them a return on their money and that they're aligned with you on the vision of the company.

Okay.

And you know, eventually when you do have that belief and you feel aligned with that person, I think it's a very synergistic relationship and they could be with you for the, for the long haul. I think I've raised from a total of about 70 people from different funds and individuals at this point. The first ones were hard. My pitches were probably extremely rough, but you can't get down. You have to understand that you're getting better at everyone.

Totally.

Fortunately, my first one was a business mentor of mine that had been a mentor in the entertainment industry. But he really had taken a liking to me and he, he ended up telling me a couple of years later that, you know what, no matter what I did, he was willing to invest in the idea. Didn't matter. He just believed in me.

That's amazing.

So that helped. And then from there you go to kind of the initial friends and family that might have investment money that they'd be interested in putting to work. And then you slowly kind of graduated up from there. And then eventually you're, you're in the room with some very notable investors. Obviously, along the way you have to continue to prove milestones, gain traction, and through each stage they're looking for different proof points. So this is, hey, this is something of real meaning. This is creating something of real value. And then we get into the venture capital markets. They're looking for something. Is this company going to be a billion dollar company? Is it going to really create value and impact the world?

Interesting. Got it. And then how did you handle setbacks? Because, like, I know, for instance, like, the app platform is fabulous, but then you, like, you look at reviews and you'll have like a series, maybe something was wrong one week and you have people giving negative reviews. Do you. How do you manage that with yourself? Because I can tell you, as an entrepreneur myself, that type of thing used to throw me a lot. You know, if I had negativity or whatever, I've learned to manage that. How did you have to teach yourself to ignore that? How did you learn to manage that?

Yeah, no, you know, at first that's, it's, it's really gut wrenching. It really, it really hurts at the beginning, but eventually you learn to. You don't ignore it. I don't believe in ignoring it unless it's just, you know, people, you know, a competitor just on there trashing you for their own self interest. But, you know, I generally listen and read between the lines, like, what are the real challenges here that we have to fix? And I look to address them, but, you know, I, you know, over, over time, you learn to not be set back by them, but again, try and see them as an opportunity to improve.

So do you think, I mean, it's interesting how you went. You were one of the first people to notice about influencer marketing and you went about it in a different way. Like, you, like you said you got Michelle Lewin on board. You also have Jen Selter on board. And like, and if people listening don't know who those two people are sleeping under a rock, look at them up. But how much did that play a role in helping to grow it that you had these influencers or somebody that already had a huge audience, a big reach to help you? Was that, is that the main for the growth, would you say, or something else?

Well, yeah, particularly early on because we raised a really modest amount of capital. So early on we were really dependent on them to do all the marketing for us and that's why we constructed the business the way we have where we share revenue with them and we've really empowered them to actually be able to build a business on our platform. Totally. So early on it was super instrumental. As we've continued to grow and scale, we've been able to bring in more resources to do our own marketing and we've been able to grow our own influence through our social media pages. So, yeah, early on that was just, it was really instrumental and it was sort of, I think, the intersection of my early foundation of learning to promote in the entertainment industry, hospitality industry through, you know, at the time it was just kind of the cool kids in town and that were out often and from there that, you know, turned into what today is referred to as influencer marketing, where people actually have often millions or hundreds of thousands of people that, you know, they were able to speak to and they become a thought leader and a source of inspiration for them.

Yeah.

And when you think about the people that you follow, whether you have actually ongoing dialogue with them and deep rapport, it actually does feel somewhat like a relationship, even even though it is mostly on the follower side, primarily consumption. But you do feel like you do form a really deep connection with people over Time of engaging with them online.

Totally. How do you choose? I'm imagining at this point, with Fit Plan app being so big and so well known, you probably get a lot of athletes that want to be on the app and the platform. How do you decide who, like, how do you decide who you want to highlight and involve? And is your goal to have it like a million athletes or to keep it to, like, a smaller amount of just the complete right ones?

Yeah. So, yeah, we get a lot of inbound interest at this point. And, you know, we've, you know, I won't sugarcoat it. We've kissed a few toads on our way to find our prince. But I think what we've learned over time is that we're looking for, I think, a few things foundationally that are important. First is alignment. So you really have to be aligned with that person, the person that you're looking to work with. I think it really has to be something that is important to them and you're aligned for the long haul. And then next, I think what you're looking for is deep influence. So someone that actually, there's a lot of people that have a million or two followers that really, actually don't actually have influence on those people. They follow them for different reasons. So I think really it's just. It's about alignment, thought leadership, and then. And then deep influences is. There's no set number of followers or anything like that when we're looking to work with someone at this point. We've been able to take people that have, you know, 40 or 50,000 and work with them over time, and we've seen them go to several hundred thousand and being able to invest in people that actually help them build their brand. And more recently, since Alex has been involved, we've gotten an insane amount of interest from professional sports athletes. Earlier this year, we launched Christian McCaffrey, and then last week we launched Rob Gronkowski. And since then we've actually got. Obviously, Alex has joined as a trainer as well. And. And we've gotten a lot of interest from the professional sports world as well.

If someone's listening right now and they are, like, they have an idea for their own app or they want to start something, create something. Maybe it has to do with fitness. Maybe it's something completely different. And outside of that, what advice would you tell them? What would you tell them if they don't know anything about this yet? Like, if you're telling yourself this years ago.

Yeah, I think if a mobile app is something of interest to You. I think the first question you may want to ask, should this be an app? Is an app actually a best delivery mechanism for it? Because people are downloading less apps now and using less apps.

Really?

Yeah. So what you see is that people actually use 10 or 12, maybe 20 different apps on a daily or weekly basis, but they may have another 10 or 15 that are on their phone that they maybe haven't opened or opened once. Or some people are in the. Even in the time where they're actually not downloading very many apps or even deleting apps at this point. And then App Store discovery has gotten a lot more challenging as well.

Is because there's too many. Is it? Because there's just so many of them now?

Yeah. And Apple and Google, they're often featuring their own stuff or you have to actually pay for placement. So the early days of the App Store was a lot of like, there was a lot of discovery and people just looking for new apps because it was fun. Those days are over. You really have to prove real value in order to hold that valuable real estate on someone's home screen on their phone.

Totally.

So when you're thinking, when I think about building a business, first you want to ask where the real best delivery of that is, whether it's a mobile app, a website, a podcast or format.

That's a really good point, Landon, because I would imagine some people, you can just make it a website that's mobile friendly. You don't need to go down the whole route of making an app for it.

Yeah, precisely. And a lot of apps, even if you do find early success, is your app actually just something that is a great feature in Facebook and you're just going to take what you've done and just add a new feature and then you've really become irrelevant. The mobile app development, it is challenging. Like I said, discovery is a lot more challenging than it once was. So, yeah, if it is a mobile app, I would say definitely you want to make sure that that is the best delivery and way that the consumer wants to capture get that value.

So when you. And you have a co founder with this Cam spec, what do you think about having a co founder now? Did you like that? Did that take off pressure? Does that create new challenges when you do that?

Yeah. So Cam and I were friends prior to starting Fit Plan and you know, a lot of people would advise against, you know, starting a business with friends. For Cam and I, it's similar to a marriage. It's someone that you, not that I'm any Expert on marriage. But I think what you want is someone that is going to grow with you and you know, be there for you when you, you know, when you, when you need support, you have to be them for. There for them when they need support. And I think you want to have different skills that may overlap, but you want different skill sets. Both, you know, early days, you have different roles and be able to not have overlapping tasks where you're, you know, you're both, you both have the same skill set. So if you're starting expand a tech company, I think having a technology co founder CTO is really instrumental. If you're a tech person, having someone that understands the business side really can be fundamental.

Sure. So a lot of times partnerships, like, one person's kind of like more the visionary and the other one's more the integrator and implementer. Is that the case with you guys or do you both have similar skill sets?

Yeah, that's a great question. Cam and I are both entrepreneurs, but Cam is certainly a lot better at the integration side of it. He's really good operationally where I'm more of the visionary. I have a lot of product experience. So we do have some overlapping skills, but we certainly have different skill sets in some regards as well. And that's helped. And then we've been able to continue to supplement our team with places that both of us are, are still learning or we need really, you know, specialization.

Awesome. One thing I love about Fit Plan app and why I was drawn to it is because I knew that the owners themselves were actually fit. They, they weren't just somebody in it just for the money around it. Like you actually knew what was needed. You, you work out yourselves, you eat healthy. They both look like they could be fitness models. Like they have it and they were real people behind it versus just like, you know, somebody doing it for, for the business model. I think that makes an actual big difference. Would you agree that?

Yeah, I think that's, that's very important. I think that's, you know, there's, there's a talk that Steve Jobs gave about actually really following your passion. And the reason he says, he said that is because when it gets hard, if you're not really passionate about it, you're probably just gonna give up totally. So I think that's where really, you know, you're able to dig deep and find the perseverance when you know the things, things are challenging, times are tough, you're able to put your head down and really persevere. I think it's deeply important that you're passionate about what you're really working on.

That's great. What do you see long term for Fit Plan app and for you?

Yeah. So for Fit Plan, I think we've got to a place where we have a very strong user base, really passionate user base. We get some really crazy messages and see great transformations in people's lives. And you know, one of my favorite quotes we got in the App Store the other day was fit Plans changed my life. I would rather cancel Netflix and Fit Plan. I'm not single because I'm single. So, you know, when you, when you see stuff like that, I think that really helps you get the self self belief and momentum to continue to go on. But we see ourselves being the place where you can find the best workouts, the very best trainers and the best community to be able to reach all your fitness goals. We'll continue to expand our portfolio of trainers as we continue to expand the user base and we're constantly looking for new ways to deliver those workouts. Last week at ces we announced a partnership with Samsung where we'll be pre installed on all the Samsung Smart TVs.

Amazing.

Something, something like 50 million they sell every year.

Wow.

So we're constantly looking for new ways to deliver the value in sort of the virtual training and however people want to consume these workouts.

Do you get phased by competition now? Does it drive you? Does it hold you back? Like, I know, like you've had, you've had some spinoffs. Some people trying to create something similar. Does that fluster you? Does it drive you? How do you feel when you see that?

No, it kind of gives you some, it gives you, I think, a little bit of reassurance that you're working on the right thing. I think if absolutely no one else is working on what you're doing, then I think that there's. Maybe you're working on the wrong thing.

It's a great perspective.

Yeah. And I think we always knew that there would be copycats and you know, and that there's personalities that would want to create their own fitness apps. But you know, for me, you know, it keeps me, it keeps me with my head up and it keeps me kind of excited about what we're doing and our place in the market.

Yeah, I will share on that side. I was one of those people that had my own fitness app and I much prefer not having my own fitness app and being on yours. So if somebody's listening and wanting to create their own, I definitely suggest looking at who's already winning and working and work maybe on theirs. That's just my personal preference and what I've seen a lot goes into developing your own app.

Yeah. And then not only that is keeping up with the technology. Every time Apple releases a new iOS or Android you have to update. Obviously the acquisition is becoming more and more challenging. So yeah, I think as people think about that, it's certainly often and even something like podcast or video. If you were to want to create video or podcasts, you're not going to make a podcasting app where you deliver that. You're going to go to where people are already consuming them.

Totally. That's a really good analogy there. This is awesome, Landon. So I will put in the show notes where people can find Fit Plan apps and how they can do even access a free trial to check it out and whether they follow my plan on there or any of your other amazing trainers. Where can people find you personally if they want to follow what you do?

I'm on LinkedIn. Can you search my name? Landon Hamilton. I'm on Instagram. Landon Ham. Just Landon and then my first three letters of my name. That's mainly where I connect with people.

Amazing. Thank you so much, Landon.

Yeah, and I, I really do enjoy your workouts actually. So yeah, I look forward to continuing to create more contact with you.

Thank you. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Leveling Up. If you want to access your own free trial to the Fit Plan app, go to fitplanapp.com forward/natalie jill but you'll abbreviate it. You'll put ftpln.com forward slash natalie jill. Once again ftpln.com forward slash Natalie Jill and activate your free seven day trial to the app. Enjoy. Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget, forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review, I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable. And come interact with me over on Instagram @nataliejofit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day creating everything from nothing.

Sam.