192: Conquering Subliminal Triggers Affecting Your Performance with Michael Bernoff

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, Fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. As founder and president of the Human Communications Institute, Michael Bernoff has helped thousands of people transform their lives through his signature events, audio seminars and one on one coaching. Now, combining his natural talent as a communicator, deep understanding of motivation, and a powerful ability to tap into virtually anyone's desire for success, he's unlocked the mysteries to building charisma, influence, persuasion and connection with others. Now Michael sheds light on subliminal psychological triggers that affect performance and reveals powerful strategies for leaving average lives behind. The result is a greater financial wealth, physical health and lasting confidence in all aspects of life. Join in today and learn so much from Michael Bernoff and exactly how he has leveled up and created everything from nothing. Today I'm excited to chat with Michael Bernoff. He is a master of influence and communication. We have a number of mutual friends in common and he's so good at what he does. I'm dying to get in and talk with you today. Michael, thank you so much for being here on how you did all of this. Thanks for being here.

I'm thrilled to be here and I'm excited to chat with you and dig out some stuff that I didn't even realize that I know cause you've helped.

So many of my friends. I mean, I know Allison Maslin, who I've had on the show before, raves about you, you, but how that's not always who you were, I'm assuming. Like how did you get into this whole master of influence and communication? Where did you learn that? Was that who you were as a kid?

Actually no. And this is. It almost sounds like marketing when I explain this. I was very, very shy as a kid and I still have that, I still have that thing. And it's funny because you look at me like here's this guy does these 12 hour events and he's extroverted. I'm huge introvert. Like up until probably about six years ago, I'm the guy that literally before we had to go into a party as a kid, I remember like waiting outside, taking five deep breaths, having to go inside Like, I still have the reservation, but I know how to now flip it on and flip it off. And so it makes me very, very cognizant of the fact of, like, a lot of people have a bigger version of them inside that they don't let it out. So I am a guy that got through a lot of that.

So when you said you were, like, introverted and shy as a kid, did you. Were you raised, like, where parents were saying, he's the shy one, or were they telling you not to be? Like, what was the story around that?

No, I grew up. I mean, I have a really interesting story. I mean, I grew up very, very. I'm from New Jersey. I grew up very, very middle class is the best way to put it. Like, I always say, like, it's easy. If I get on the podcast and I say, I grew up broke and I got rich, it's easy to tell homeless man to gazillionaire, easy story. Hey, if he could do it, what can I do? I grew up in a wheelchair. Now I walk way better. And my parents weren't Bill Gates. So I grew up with what I would call, like, the world's biggest challenge. It's like almost like having two alcoholic parents on. I grew up in a middle class community. Everyone else is middle class. So I wanted big things, and I knew I was capable of more, and I knew I wanted to stand out, but everyone around us was okay. So I, like, lived in this box. That's why my whole movement of average sucks is so big. Because I think the biggest deterrent to success in the last 30 to 40 years is this idea of middle class that a lot of us grew up in, that, like, we got stuck with settling in life. And I literally wanted more, but no one ever sat me down and showed me how to get it.

And I'm assuming, I mean, I don't. I don't know how old you are, but I grew up in the 70s and 70s and 80s and I, like, there were no entrepreneurs.

I'm 40. 42.

Okay. So I'm 48. So it was like a weird thing. Like, no one was an entrepreneur. No one was stepping out of the box doing this.

Did you grow middle class?

I grew up just like you, kind of like, very, very middle class. Just really standard middle class.

Yeah, I grew up right down the middle. My parents worked hard. I have great parents. My parents are still married. They grew up right down the middle. Be a good person. They told me these simple rules. Work, work hard. Be a good person. And then I go into business for myself. Like, probably a lot of people listening to this or wanting to, like, run two miles in 12 minutes to make the hockey team, right? So my parents said, work hard and be a good person. And I did it my whole life. And you know what? I never, ever got ahead with that formula. And that was devastating when I got into business.

No. Were you a good student? I'm curious about that. A lot of entrepreneurs were not horrible.

Horrible. I am. I'm of the generation like you, where, like, MTV seeped in. I used radio at night, then mtv. So what's wrong with this kid? He can't pay attention. He must have add, right?

Oh, yeah.

And they got me drugged up. Then they're like, he doesn't sleep. Let's give him antidepressants. Then he's mouse dry. Let's give him something for that. So I'm like. I'm, like, drooling half asleep, half awake and on antidepressants at 13, because they didn't know what to do with me. They didn't recognize that. And I know this now from the work I do, that I'm an auditory learner, and they're explaining to me visually, and I learn by the sounds inside of my brain. So I know that now. But they could never look in the mirror and go, maybe it's the teacher. They always blame the student.

Oh, my gosh. I love this conversation. That was totally me. Totally me. I was the CD student with the diagnosis of learning disability. Add all the things. So I get that. I totally get it.

They would have given me KGB if I had it. I mean, I literally. You name it, I was given it.

And I. You know, it's so funny when my daughter gets a note from the teacher that says, like, penelope would be more whatever if she would pay attention. And I want to scream, well, maybe if you were a better teacher. I can't say that I got a really good.

You want to. This is what we should do. We should get all our friends together. Here's the idea I had years ago. Let's find the greatest teachers in the world. The most fun, attractive, incredible teachers in the world. Pay them a million bucks a year, like celebrities, right? Big IMAX screens. Give kids, like, remotes to play with to learn off of. Huge screens. Put, like, the people you love listening to, the best YouTube stars in the world. Let them teach our kids. And our kids would be geniuses.

So bright.

The problem is we're taking intellectuals and we're telling them, teach our kids. Just because you're intellectual doesn't mean you have teaching skills.

Amen. Yes, so good. So good. But you're right. But. But I will say, like what you just brought up. We're not paying teachers enough. So what are we expecting sometimes too?

I mean, listen, I. We were. We went to my school in Scottsdale, Arizona, and we dropped our dog off at daycare and it was $55 a day. And we found out that the school. When a kid misses school, it's like $87 a day. The kid, the school doesn't get. So I don't know if you know how that works. We have private school kids now, but back when I had public kids in public school because the schools are horrible in Arizona, what happened is, I think was $87 a day my kid got towards their education. I was paying 62 at tax to leave my dog at daycare. So the same thing to leave my basset hound at the time was at daycare was almost the same as my kid getting an education. And my dog at least got free time, got to play and learn and know what's right and wrong and, you know, at least reprimanded here and there without being sued. So fascinating stuff. So anyways, off the education system. We'll deal with that another time.

Yeah, but so you learned that working hard and being a good person was not obviously working and you had a bigger vision for yourself. So tell me what happened.

I went to college. I had a. I went to Arizona State, which is so hilarious. I should never have went there. They really screwed up. You take a kid with attention deficit and you send them to the number one party school in the world. How I got there was my parents had this A.D.D. counselor. Right?

Okay.

And they said, hey, do you know University of Arizona has perfect curriculum for add. Extra test taking, all that. They literally filled out the wrong form and sent me to the wrong school.

Oh, my God.

But my college roommate, dad. This is a great story. His dad owned a company called I Probably Would Never Stay There, but He owns Super 8 hotels, right?

Okay.

And he said, you're good at business. And I'm like, great. And I went down to the business school with my like, C's and D's, right? And I'm like, can I get in the business school? They're like, no. And I'm like, okay, great. Well, I never got into business school. I probably make more than anyone in my graduating class, but I never got into the business school. And while I was there, I got into direct sales. I played around with entrepreneurship The Internet, that was booming at the time. I was trying to get in like new Internet ideas and build websites. And when I failed out of. Not failed out, but when I got an academic probation, I went to Mesa Community College and I took a sales class. Isn't it funny? There's no sales class at the big university, but this little teeny community college sales class.

Yeah.

This teacher, if I could find out his name, I'd give him all the credit in the world for producing something that's made me tens and tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars. He said, read a book from this list. And there was a list of books. There was wealth of nations, there was the Gold standard. And one was how to Win Friends and influence people. 19 year old boy, single. How to Win Friends and Influence People. Going to party school.

I'm like, oh, that's dangerous.

So I got the book and what I learned from the book was not how to influence people. I learned you can get better at things you're not good at. Something my parents never told me. I thought it was destined to be who I was and maybe a little bit better. I had no idea you could learn yourself better. And for about $10 in late fees in the library changed the trajectory of my life right there.

And late fees. I love it.

I didn't return the book. I had add. I forgot to return it.

I probably still have library books.

Yes.

Talk to me about that. That you can get better at things you're not good enough good at. Because I think, I think that that's true in a lot of cases. But there's some things that like, we really shouldn't work at getting better at. How do you decide that? Because like, I'm like, for instance, I can't sing. I don't. If I studied singing, I could probably kind of sing that. I would never be Beyonce or jlo.

Okay, you can't sing or you're not serious about getting good at it. Let's get language right on that. So I don't believe you. And the difference between JLO and you is you believe that wholeheartedly. Your belief system says that. Now I get it. And you me remember being kids. I don't remember who that guy was that was 5 foot 6 that won the slam dunk contest. Remember that guy?

That little guy I know you're talking about.

I don't follow that. I'm a hockey guy. Right. But the, my, my thing is you're very, very adamant about your belief that you're not a good singer. So I'm not saying you're gonna get to go do the super bowl next year, but if you want it to be dramatically better, instead of investing in the things you and I spoke about earlier that you're investing in, instead of investing in fitness and health, you would literally turn around and go, michael, who do you know? It's a voice coach. And I would say, Call RogerLove immediately. I would say, you're like, I want to get singing lessons. I go, give me a minute. Let me call my buddy Jake we talked about earlier. And I'm going to find out who lives in his neighborhood, because a lot of those singers live there. And I could get you four people to get you 50% better. Like, does your daughter play sports at all?

She's more of an actress and performer.

Okay, so how long does she plays golf?

She does play golf.

Okay, how often does she golf?

Well, not enough, but when she does, she's amazing.

So if you golf once a week, you probably don't get better. Correct. Twice a week, you maintain three. Weekdays a week, you get ahead. So if you invested two to three hours a week at singing, you'd be better than 95% of the population in 90 days.

You know what? I love what you just did there, and that landed totally. You flipped that on me, and I love it. And you're right, and I am laughing as you're talking because my husband, who would have said he's the worst thinger in the world, he decided last year he wanted to learn to sing. He hired a voice coach, and he actually did get 50% better. So you're right.

I think about the reason I asked about sports. Like, my daughter Tara has not played. She's 18 now, has not played soccer in 15 years or 10 years. Right. If she went in your backyard or my backyard and grabbed a ball, she will be better than someone that doesn't play. Right. So like my little daughter who figure skates three days a week, if she for two years, she is better than 99% of the population because the amount of time she's put into it. So the question is, how serious? That's a very important word. Are you about it? And I tell you, most people are not serious about their health. And you could see it by the waistline.

I love what you just said here. This is amazing. And it was a total taste of my own medicine that I needed to hear.

So good.

Yeah, you did get me fooled. You?

Yeah. Allison hired me to come on your show to amaze you.

I love it, though. So okay, so you got. You took from that book that you could get good at anything you wanted to. So what did you decide right then you wanted to get excellent at?

So I'm in business, and what I said that day was, you know, I want to get better with people. And when I started looking at everything differently, like, there was a twist in my brain, and I. When I started understanding personal development, and that was. Jim Rohn was one of my earliest mentors. This guy Jim Rohn, I have a picture of him right up right above my desk here. One of my first mentors ever. And he basically got me to buy into, like, the idea of. I think I spent $12 on this audio. It was the. It was the art of exceptional living. And I've listened to it 20,000 times. In order for things to change, you need to change. In order for things to get better, you need to get better. So I started looking at every sales pitch that I did, every presentation I did as an opportunity to become a better communicator. Because I was on a plane once, flying back to college, and this guy from India, he said, the key to being effective in life is being a better communicator. And I have a big sign on my wall downstairs, the office. It says, your future hinges on your ability to effectively communicate. So I'm like, wow. Every presentation I did from that day forward, every class I did of relationship, I'm like, I'm working on being a better communicator. So by doing that, I worked on my business. But I started helping people with this way of thinking and realized very few people in the world are actually getting a result out of people. A lot of people are exciting people, but I wasn't necessarily exciting people. I was getting a result from people. I was getting people to take actions they never took. I was getting people to pick up the phone and make calls they've never made on my team in direct sales, I was getting people to go to the gym to work out. And I'm like. I said, this is what I've known to do my whole life. So I realized I kind of just accepted. If I were to say. Kind of, I will absolutely say, but certainly I accepted what I was here on this planet to do, and then I decided to do it.

This is really, really good, Michael. And I have some questions around this, because coaching I have gotten in the last year on my own stuff, which has really woken me up to this, is that I was constantly being told, you're motivating and you're inspiring, and I would think, great. I'm motivating and inspiring. And what I learned and the coaching I got was that doesn't matter. If you're not getting people to get results and take, move to something, move to action, then it's not effective. So what you're saying is making sense to me. How do you do that? How did. How did you figure that out? Because it's challenging enough for some people to become, step into their confidence and inspire and motivate.

Okay, so here's what I look at it. We're all drug dealers, right? And what I mean by drug dealers is every conversation we have is changing chemicals in your brain and someone else's brain almost immediately. So what that means is when I say something to you, it's going to either release dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin inside of your brain, excite you, focus you, do whatever. So. And also, the way you communicate with you delivers chemicals in someone else's brain. So what I've recognized is I could care less if you like me. I care that you, when I leave the relationship, you're doing more of what you wanted to do, and you associate that with me. Do you see the difference?

Yes.

So I don't care if you like me or if you got inspired by what I did. I care that you do something.

Yes.

That's the difference. So to answer your question, my big takeaway was that everybody's motivated differently. And the majority of the people go for a sugar high, but then they just keep on licking their lips that they got their sugar high instead of actually getting what it is they wanted. I wanted to be the person that got results for people, not had a bunch of people like them.

So did you have to do some work to get out of your own ego and your own head around that? Because I think that's what stops a lot of people, is they're scared of judgment or what people are going to think or they want to be liked in the people Pleasing.

Yeah. I mean, you got to ask yourself what's more important to be liked or to be effective in this world? And for me, it was. I cared more about being effective. I thought, like, I feel like all jobs are available in this world. Like, if you look at a corporation, there's the janitor, there's the CEO, they're all available. There's the lady at the front desk. Like, there's an opening for all jobs in this world. And one of the job openings that I see available is the guy who walks in a situation Says something and changes things. Like, I was always moved by Mr. Miyagi. I was always moved by Mickey and Rocky. I was always moved by, like, those people moved me by Schindler's List, Oscar Schindler. Like, I was always moved by, like, I watched these movies. They moved me. Somebody that truly, truly made that difference in somebody else's life. And so for me, you've got to ask yourself this question. Like, do you want the credit? Is it the fame you're after, or is it the results you're after?

Yeah, yeah, I'm clear. I'm after results for people. And that's why this conversation is so interesting to me. I don't want to be the person that's. I don't want to be described as you're inspiring and motivated. I want to be described as you help me get results.

Yeah, I like the big question is you have to ask, like, what do you want for your life? And I feel like that's how hollow it is, just inspiring people and them not doing anything. And I want it to be a person that pushed the limits. Like, I have a brand. Average sucks for a reason. Everybody reads my shirts like, oh, you know, oh, yeah, average sucks, dude, that's great. I'm better than you, you're better than me. I said, no, no, no, not that. What it is, is we all have an average that we are confronted with of how we live our lives. We have a natural tendency to be a certain way, a certain weight, a certain way, a certain thing that if you analyze annualized your life over a year, there is an average of weight. There's an average of bank account, there's an average of relationship, the average amount of times you have sex. There's an average amount of times that everything happens in your life. And if you find out what that average is, your question for the year is, is that enough? Is that what I want? Or do I want to change that? So what I've set out to do is to not get you excited for an hour. I want to change it so you change permanently.

That's brilliant. I love it. And it's very obvious that that's what you do. So where did you start with that? Like, obviously, you pick up this book, you made a decision which very clear. How did you know, like, where to get the help on that then? Who did you go to first? Where did you. I mean, you mentioned a couple mentors that you had, but where did you go?

So here's. Here's the funny thing. You wind up in the Situations, you wind up. One of my mentors taught me a little something called a conduit years ago. And what the conduit is, it's a person, place or situation that comes into your life for a period of time and then they disappear.

And.

And so there's a guy that came into my life and I was in California, long story. I'm not going to get it right now. Dead broke, trying to make this business work. Lying to myself, acting like things are. This is a direct sales business I was in. Lying to myself, acting like it's better than it is in a crappy relationship, knowing that I could take care of my health better than I do. But, like, in that bullshit part of my life. Do you know what I'm saying?

Yep.

I've had that things are better than they are. And I got away with it because I was such good at BSing that I convinced myself and convinced other people of it. That's where I was at in my lying stage of my life. Because we all go through that. You have to deal with that. I go to this event and I go to offer my services. Nobody buys anything. And this guy in the back of the room, I just want to get out of. Back to Arizona. Cannot believe that this horribleness just happened to me. And this dude comes up to me. He sold pet safety products, right? And he comes up to me and he goes, michael, that incredible presentation. And I'm like, dude, it was a sales pitch. And I didn't say that out loud, but in my breath I'm like, dude, it was sales pitch. It was not a presentation. I was hoping you bought something. But I didn't say it out loud. He goes, how familiar are you with. Or actually said to me. He said to me something I was bothered by. He's like, you know, you remind me of, like, if you say it, I'll kill you. I've been getting the Tony Robbins thing since I was a kid because we have like the same voice.

I was going to say that you do have the same voice.

You have the same voice since the infomercials when I was a kid. I mean, I have funny stories about that also, but, like, the same damn voice, right? And he goes, have you ever heard of neuro linguistic programming? And I'm like, oh, yeah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm dead broke. Here's a guy trying to help me and I'm not listening. He goes, I've known Tony for 30 years. I'm one of the guys that helped invent neuro linguistic programming. You should check it out. It's amazing. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, right, whatever. Well, the dude tracked me down for days. And what happened was, after the event, I blew him off. He's like, dude, you should go to this event and check it out. Well, he sent me to something kicking and screaming. And when I was there, I watched a guy say a few words to me that changed everything in my life. He said, how many of you are salespeople? And I raised my hand, because I think everybody's a salesperson, right? And everyone should be good at it. And I raised my hand. He goes, why do you want to be a salesperson? And I'm like, dude, highest paid profession in the world. Why do you want to be salespeople when you could learn how to be a person of influence? And I go, oh, got it. And I sat back down, and I realized that day that you could learn how to be a person of influence. Like, Oprah is a person of influence. That is a learnable trait. The president, like him, hate him. People. Whoever want to be in office is going to influence people. Jlo, we mentioned influences people. People that are bad people. Influence people. Good people, people. So it was that day that I recognized that I'm like, wow, influence is something that I can get good at. So the book recommended this guy said it. And from that day forward, I started studying, you know, the most effective people on the planet that influence people, how to influence change.

The people of influence that you studied, what is it that you noticed about them? Like, and I want to. And I'm gonna. Let me frame that a little bit differently. And this is gonna. This episode's airing after the super bowl, but last night was a Super bowl, and I watched the halftime show. And what I took away from Beyonce and Shakira, I mean, it's Beyonce, J. Lo, and Shakira. What I took away from that, neither.

Of them is great.

Yeah. But not only did it empower me, it, like, made me want to go take dance lessons. It made me want to own my confidence more. And then it was interesting how some people took away, like, this negativity around it. Like, this was inappropriate, or they saw. People saw what they wanted to see.

Yeah.

I looked at it all as influence. And I would imagine you started looking at different people, like, who's influencing you and what are they doing? What was the commonality that you found in that? Like, what did you start to notice?

So what I recognize is we're always influencing everyone. Even the greatest introvert in the world is influencing tens of thousands of people in their life. So if you're overweight, you're letting people know it's okay to be overweight. You're also influencing people to not be like you. So we're always influencing people. The question is, what do you want as your influence? Like, I stopped drinking four years ago, right? Completely. I didn't have a problem. But what I recognized was I have clients that come to me that have issues, right? And who am I? Like, I'm out to dinner with friends that we know, got a $500 bottle of wine at the table, and I'm picturing my wife and I on Facebook and I'm drinking. It's like, how can I tell them to not drink if I'm drinking, right? So I accepted the power of my own influence. So I believe if you could accept the power of how the way you live influences other people, that is one of the greatest things to accept in the world, the power of your influence. So what I learned, if I were to go back to. You mentioned the nlp, and the common denominator was nlp. Transactional analysis, psychotherapy, hypnosis, communication, transactional analysis, learning to be a public speaker. Any form of communication you can learn gets you under the understanding that there's a better way and a more effective way to get what it is that you want. So what I. What I recognize from learning, studying NLP and studying different things, if you're not familiar with its neuro linguistic programming. What I learned is that they truly believe that there is a. An effective way to get anything you want in this world and there is a better way to do it. And that is one of the greatest things I learned is the mindset of NLP is stronger than the actual techniques.

Interesting. So some people would view that as. And again, it's all the lens you're viewing things through as, oh, that's manipulation. That's, you know, shouldn't do that. And then I hear that and I'm like, sign me up. I could help a lot more people. So I don't see that as manipulation. How. What do you speak into that? How people see it.

Yeah. So let me ask you a question. You said your daughter plays golf, right? And let's just say we invite Tiger to come play golf with us one day. Why not? Right? He's influential and he comes and plays golf with us and he hits the ball with one club perfectly, 300 yards and hits the pin. Is that fair that he does that?

Well, yeah. He worked his Butt off his whole life to do it.

So is being able to. Is being able to communicate with somebody in a way that. That or with yourself in a way that gets a result worth it? So I look at influence as a club in your bag that when you pull it out, it helps you. So for me, manipulation, we're all manipulating all the time. We all have our own agendas. Everyone just got to accept it. We're always maneuvering, pushing people a direction where manipulation is such a weird word, but we're influencing people on a regular basis. I truly believe that influence is helping somebody make a decision that they wanted to make in the first place and guiding them to make one. I don't think you can make anyone do anything long term without physically harming them to do something long term that they didn't want to do in the first place. So I look at influence as how do I call upon the greatest version of yourself to get you to do what you want it to do? So right now you're influencing yourself to believe you can't sing. And let's say you really wanted to in your heart sing and it would change your life and make you feel good and your inner child would come out, be a better example for your child. Is it fair that I use my techniques to convince you that you should convince you that singing is something that you were supposed to be doing?

Yeah. And actually I feel like it supports me because what I'm taking away from what you're saying is it's a belief in the person. So, like, you're. When you're speaking to me, you're believing in a higher potential for me, and you're communicating that. And that's driving me to want to take action. So I think it's. That is not manipulation. That's actually helping people see their worth, see their value. Like, step into their potential, find their greatness.

Yeah, that's the big thing. So, like, I believe that everyone is walking through the earth with this. And most people don't realize that their biggest issue is their average. Your average is your challenge. So you're going to wind up by the end of the year, you're going to wind up in exactly the same place that you're in right now without doing anything most people don't recognize, like, you are destined. Like, you could sit on your ass, you could sit on that chair. We're doing this as a video, but you could sit on that chair behind you, the big white one, and you could sit there and take a nap for six months, six Months from now, you will look in the mirror and go, wait a second, my weight is off, my workouts are off, my relationship is off. And in the last six months of the year, you would course correct and wind out exactly back where it is you are right now. I don't believe human beings have to work as hard as they work to get what they have. We have to work intelligently and influence ourselves to get what we want. That's the part that we need to break. And we put a box together for ourselves. And if you want me to put that together for you, I can. But we build this box in our lives. If you ask, why is it hard to get what you want? Like, why are people so capable not getting what they want? Because unfortunately, the life you develop for yourself will never let you get what you want. There's something you need to do that is so subtle, so easy to change that everyone can do. Nobody knows what it is. And it's so easy that I can explain it in 30 seconds. It's just, do you want to accept the biggest question in the world is, are you where you want to be? And as soon as you say no, the doors open. It's like you have to accept, wait a second, that's an insecure question.

It's very scary, but because I find most people will fight for their limitations. They'll fight for their belief system, their fight for their comfort zone.

Yes.

And they'll defend it and look for evidence around it versus taking on what you're saying.

They're not fighting with it. They're not understanding the way the rules, the way the world works. So the unconscious mind, which is our basic, this is where we're going to get exciting for you. The unconscious mind is driven by a understanding behavior that find the path of least resistance. The easiest way to get from point A to point B. Also defend what we believe to be true and help us get what it is we say we want. So I would venture to guess that everyone listening right now had a day in their life where they said, I'm done with this. I'm sick of this. I will not live this way anymore. And you build this wall behind yourself and you say like, I will never go back. I will never make under a hundred grand a year again. I will never be in a relationship like that again. I will never be mistreated again. I'll never let my kids treat that way again. I will never do that again. We build this wall behind us saying, I will never go back there. And we also build at the same time, this dream of what we want. So it's like every dinner conversation you have is, what I don't want, what I want, what I don't want, what I want. Nobody actually gets it, but it's. Or actually gets what they want. But here's what I want somehow one day. And there's what I'll never accept again. And we live within these parameters and we venture. It's almost like we're window shopping in life. Like, you actually never get what you want, but you build an identity of a guy or girl that wants that thing, not as an identity of a person that has it.

Yeah, that's cool. So lots to think about here. I might. My head's like, I got you. I'm forgetting that I'm interviewing you. I think I'm in my own coaching session right now. Like, let's break myself through right now.

If you want to. I'll do that. I'll do demonstration.

If you want to work on something, I love it. So, okay, let's do this one. Help me with this. This is a common one with people. Money. Let's talk about money. There's a lot of people that let this thermostat for their income dictate their income. Like they. And they have a story around whatever their number is.

Let's talk about economics and let's not talk about money. And the reason I want to talk about economics is economics is logical. Money is emotional. Let's not talk about emotions. Let's talk a lot.

Okay, let's talk economics. Everyone has such difference of opinions on what they think they could make or not make. How do you break someone through that?

Okay, very good. So let's make up a scenario real quick. Let's take Julie, one of your clients. She's from Nova Scotia. I mean, give me a scenario that's a little less.

Give me a scenario. The story of someone saying, I just. I don't think I'll ever make a million dollars. Let's go with that. I'll never. I would. I'm not. I'm a. I'm. This. This is what I do. This is what I make. I'll never make a million dollars. They have a story around that.

Okay, very good. And so you probably should tell that person, you're absolutely correct. I would tell them. First thing I would say is, you're absolutely correct. And I totally see why you might say that. The reason somebody says that is to validate their current reality. So when someone says, I'll never find a great man, you need to say to them, I totally see why you might say that. Now what happens is speaking. And if men are listening to this as well as women, don't get mad if the guy says this from now on. But it sounds like you're agreeing, but you're really just acknowledging. So the first thing I would say, so if I was coaching somebody, I would say, I totally see why you might say that. That you think I just agreed with you, but I didn't.

Right.

I would say the fact that you've never made a million dollars before means you don't have a program currently that actually allows you to do that. Now then my next thing I would say is, who says you have to make a million dollars?

Okay.

And let's just play that out with people like, who says anybody has to make a million bucks? Is there anything wrong with $42,000 a month? You can have a very nice life for $42,000 a month. You can go to Ocean Mastros all the time. You can eat sushi all the time if that's what you like.

I see what you're doing right now because they're going to now fight for what they want.

Yes. So the person's going to say, no, I need a million dollars. I'd say, okay, would you be mad making 462,000 DOL. Have you ever made $462,000? And what do you think they're going to say?

No, I wouldn't be mad. I would love to make that. I have not made that. Let's go with that.

Okay, very good. Have you taken making money seriously? Like, is it something that you actually have worked on or is it something you've hoped to get?

I see what you're doing. Most people would say they hope to get it. They would not. They never actually worked on it.

Okay, very good. So let me ask you. Let me ask you this question. So that's what I would do with somebody. I would break that down. I would get them to realize they don't need to make a million dollars. A million dollars is an arbitrary number that most people don't need. I think it was Gary Vee. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I saw a video the other day, said, like, why does everybody want to make a million bucks when most people need to make 258,000? And they'd be thrilled. Right? So $30,000 a month for most people. And they are rich. Okay. This million dollar thing is like this crazy, weird number. But my other question is like, how would your life be different if you had a million dollars? What would most people say to that?

What would most people are. What would. Like. So I guess people would have different reasons. Some people would go to security, or some people would go to just. They want to be able to buy things, experience more travel.

Okay, so here would be my first question I would say is, I'd say, are these mainly business owners?

I'm just in general, I just think that. And I certainly don't coach into money. I just. This is something that I hear all the time.

I go back to people's initial relationship with it very quickly and ask this question. When you first started making money, what was your original reason for making it? This is a really great question. So I'll ask you. When you were a kid, you finally realized that you needed to make money. Correct. How old were you when you realized, there are things I want that my parents will not get?

15.

Okay, very good. So what was your original reason for making money?

I wanted to buy designer jeans.

Okay, very good now. Awesome. So you was a guest back then. What was that?

Yes, it was definitely Guess.

Yeah, of course it was Guess jeans. And my wife and I were talking about that the other day. We're all about the same age, and it was Guess jeans back then. And I remember the commercials on at the time, like cavariccis when I was a kid.

Yeah.

You went to college with me, the kid's son.

Yeah.

So what was interesting was you wanted designer jeans, so your goal was to buy things that your parents wouldn't buy you. Correct.

Yes. I didn't want to have the conversation with my parents asking them.

So then you wind up being 32 years old, and you say to yourself, at 32 years old, you say, I'm using that as a number years ago. Right. Why am I having trouble making extra money? Well, your initial program inside of your brain was the original reason I wanted to make money was to be able to buy things my mom wouldn't buy me. Well, why are you not making a million dollars? That was the original thing, so we need to revisit that.

Oh, because I have. Technically, you'd have enough to buy the things that you want. So you're stopping yourself there. Maybe.

Let me ask you. Let's get off money for a second. Talk to me about health. Ask me my original reason for working out.

What's your original. Why did you start working out? Why did you start.

I was 13 years old, and I was a boy playing ice hockey. That scrawny didn't want to get beat up. Girls like guys. That worked out. And I was on a team, okay, 34 years old. I'm an athlete. I know how to work out, right? But I'm not working out. What I recognized was I'm married, so impressing women is not going to be a good idea. Does that make sense? Beating people up at 34 years old? It was not a good idea. I was not on a team anymore, and I didn't need to defend myself. So what I realized is working out meant those four things. It was emotionally, yes. So what I started doing is I started training for a Spartan race. I had no trouble training, but work, I will never work out for the rest of my life. Workout, to me means something. That is a program that I don't use anymore. So by using communication and language, I train. And training is leading towards something. Working out is torture. I hate working out. But I have no problem training.

That is so good. And I get what you're doing. I love that. So, so powerful.

So back to the money. People want to make money. My question is, how do you become more valuable? And that's the better question, is, like, you make what you're worth to the world today. Success is something you attract by the person you become. You deserve the amount of money you make. No one should pay you any more than you're getting, because that is what you're currently worth. Accept it. Ooh.

That's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people.

Well, then accept it. Accept it. Listen, your magazine that only gets 30,000 subscribers, not you personally don't have a magazine, but let's just say you have a magazine versus Oprah. Like, I'm gonna go see Oprah. I'm taking my wife to go see Oprah. We got front row tickets to go see Oprah.

That's so awesome.

So in a couple of weeks, I was so excited to tell her about that. Oprah deserves that price point. She's getting more than Metallica. Do you know what I'm saying? I said front row for Metallica. She's getting more than Metallica for. Because she's Oprah?

Why?

Because she demands more value.

So good. Gosh.

So here's the question. Are you. Will you want it? So here's the simplest question. Are you willing to accept you're not where you want to be? The second you. It sucks, that question. But the second you look at and go, my swimming is not as good as it can be? The second you accept that, two things happen, Possibilities appear, Limitations show up. And in between your limitations and possibilities is the transformation of the new you and your new average. And the reason I call it average sucks is your average will never make you happy.

Are you willing to accept where you are right now?

Are you willing to accept that you're not where you want to be?

Accept that you're not where you want to be yet.

Okay, put the last word in yet. Which means you presuppose it's possible to change.

Yeah, I don't think most people are asking themselves those questions, and I know I haven't asked myself that.

You know why you don't ask it? Because do you want to know the answer?

Yeah.

Okay. And your viewers probably want to know the answer too. Remember when I talked about. You said, I don't want to be there, but I want to be here. Then you build an identity wall of the box that basically says to yourself, here's who I am. I'm the guy or girl or person that doesn't want that, but does want that. And then you build all these people in your life that you lie to that you have. Some cheer you on, some remind you who you are, some piss you off. We have uncles and aunts in our life that we shouldn't have in our life just to remind us of our own insecurities and our disabilities and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you have lied to yourself and others and put a lot of weight into your identity you currently have. So our job is every day when you wake up, you have a script called this Is who I Am. So you've lied to yourself. Like, how hard is it to accept that you've been lying for 40 years of who you are? It's very scary for an alcoholic after 25 years to lie to. Go, wait a second. I don't have to drink.

So true. So true.

So that's the thing. It's like you lied to yourself for 20 years. You have videos saying you're not a good singer. You've lied to yourself. You lied to your kids. You lied to your husband. You lied to everybody. And you said, you can't do it now you got to go back on all those lies.

Yep. I. With you. It makes total sense. Makes total sense. So much information. I need, like, 10 hours with you. I don't. I don't know if this is gonna be enough. Okay, so let me ask you this. How did you take what you've learned with communication and decide to then now I'm gonna teach others this versus just kind of like doing your Own thing and building that. Like, what. What was your. Because you're you now. You help others do this. This is your thing. How did that conversation happen? And how did you decide, like, okay, I'm going to. I want to expand this and teach others to leverage up. Where did that come from?

I accepted my responsibility in this world. There's something from the Talmud, basically says, if you save a life, you're responsible for it. And if you're going to help somebody, you're responsible for it. If we have a gift. Sin is from the Old Testament. I'm not very religious with this, but it comes from the Old Testament. It means to miss the mark and to not live up to your full potential. And I think a lot of people don't recognize. A guy tapped me in the belly. He said to me once I was overweight, and he said. He goes, dude, how tall are you? And I go, I'm six foot six. He goes, why don't you start acting like it? And I go, what do you mean? He goes, dude, you act 5 11, but you're six' six. And I go, are you expecting to live your life? This guy, I don't even know who this guy was, called me out and I said, you're kidding me. So I realized that day, like, I have a responsibility. I get something. This is what I do. And no one in the world is teaching this the way that I teach it and the way that I do. And this is my own responsibility, is to live my life and to be me. So it was right at that moment I recognized I have to own this and I've got to go all in. So started a company 17 years ago called the Human Communications Institute, which is designed to teach human beings how to communicate with themselves in a way to get what they want. And I do not mean positive thinking, I mean effective thinking. And I'm effective communication and I mean calling things what they need to be. So when bad shit happens to you in your life, you put it in your brain where it needs to be so it doesn't bother you for the rest of your life.

Now, is this something anyone can be part of and learn from? How do they. How do they do this?

Anybody? I mean, anybody can get started. I mean, I have programs that we do. I mean, you can figure it out on your own. There's no reason. I mean, I figured out on my own, I did the hard work. I figured this out going to classes, figuring it out, innately accepting my responsibility in this world. But I shortcut it. So if Anybody wants to know how to do it, you can get ahold of me. I can show you what to do. But realize what you're getting yourself into. You're going to choose that if you're not where you want to be, there are some things you'll have to do different that are not working harder. It's not pushing harder. It's not Gary Vee and Hustle. You'll burn out from that. It is literally changing internal programs inside of your brain. Like, I played hockey for 35 years of my life, never scored goals, ever. I'm 41 years old. I'm sitting on the bench going, why don't I score goals? I'm a good enough player. I can play well. I can play with anybody. Why don't I score goals? Well, I've lied to myself. I said, I'm a guy that hits people. I don't score goals. And then one day I'm like, well, what do they do that I don't do? Goal. Wait a second. I could do that. And I went out the next shift and I changed my identity. I said, you know what? I'm gonna be a goal scorer now. I scored two to three goals every single game I play. Every single game. Took me 40 years to recognize this, or 30 years. But I changed my identity as a guy that lies to himself, that doesn't score, that plays defensively, to be a guy that actually can score. How many areas of your life have you lied to yourself in?

Yeah, and I'm totally aligned with everything you're saying. And this has been my work for the last year and a half of upgrading my system is what I say. Like, you know, when our computers stop working because we keep adding more applications to it, we need to reboot it and update it. And I think what you're saying really sounds like what I've been really working on. Like, that's for us to grow and change. We have to reprogram that 100%. Tell us about your book.

Yes, I'm excited about this. Average Sucks is the book, and it's a really great title, why you don't get what yout Want and what to Do About It. And it's literally designed for the person that is doing well in the world. You, in all intents and purposes, you are doing better than most. From the outsider's perspective, a lot of people wish they had your life, but you know in your heart, you're not where it is that you want to be. The book is designed to change your average, and it's literally a step by step, easiest thing to read. Like you could get it on a plane and you could, like you could start to finish, finish this thing in two hours and literally understand what your average is, how to change it, what to do about it. And you will never see life the same way again. It is so good. Simple thing in the world. It's not a hack. It's literally how to change your average. If you ever thought you were capable of more, this book is designed to make that a reality. It's not there to be your friend. It's there to be like this conversation, have the tough conversation with you, privately with you.

It's an interruption.

Bingo. That's a good way to do. I like that interruption for your life. Huge.

I love it. I can't wait to read it. My normal last question, I think we just answered. But my normal last question is if someone is in their own personal hard time or rock bottom or spot and they want to level up, what would you tell them to do? But I'm going to say right now is get your book. Because it sounds like your book answers.

That whether you're in a tough spot. Like, I have been in a spot where I'm making millions of dollars a year and I know I can make 20 and I've been in that spot and I've used the same material to do that. So averagesucks.com when you go there, you'll have access to the book. You can get it through a bunch of different retailers. Get the book, start there. And if you're double interested, I got something else I was gonna give everybody that's listening. If you have a phone, just write down this number. It's 480 800-8051. It's 480-800-8051. Text the word momentum. It is the coolest video that picks up from this conversation. How to develop momentum in your life and how to get more wantingness. Like how to turn on that want like we were when we were kids. Like, we have to have it like that. Like fear of like not getting it. So that video will drive your wantingness. Get the book. Watch that video. They work hand in hand with each other, but it's. I really encourage you to send a text momentum to that number and watch the video and watch what it does for you and you will be amazed.

So good. Thank you for that. And Michael, one last question. Where can people find you? Are you active on social at all? Is there an outlet that they should look for you at yeah, we're on Facebook.

We're on YouTube. I have a podcast. You know we're on Instagram. Find me on Twitter. We're all over the place. But really reach out. Like I would check out the average sucks community on Facebook. It's a really cool little free group you can join. Of all people that finally have accepted they're not where they want to be in life. It's a cool place for you to hang out. It's really, really fun.

Thank you so much. Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review. I appreciate those so much much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable and come interact with me over on Instagram at Natalie Jill Fit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.