202: Creating A Legendary Relationship with Lance & Brandy Salazar

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or we've had a big setback? On this podcast, I'll be talking to some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on this planet who at their worst, learned how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up and creating everything from nothing. Just five years ago, Lance and Brandi Salazar were nearly divorced. Having kids abruptly deprioritized their marriage and they lacked deep intimacy and connection, the same way many couples will describe their marriage. After a number of years, they were disconnected, frustrated, unhappy, playing the blame game. And they knew they weren't modeling the marriage that they wanted for their girls. At the point of calling at quits, they made one last effort to save their relationship. This time, they decided to try something new. The results were so effective that they applied the same method and principles to their family and brought their daughters along this journey with them. So in 2017, they quit their 20 year careers, sold their dream home, began homeschooling their daughters, and have dedicated their efforts to this mission, helping couples with children everywhere build the most amazing and flourishing relationship possible. Join in today and learn exactly how Lance and Brandy Salazar leveled up and created everything from nothing. Today on Leveling Up. I'm really looking forward to this discussion with Lance and Brandy. They are are the founders, creators of Legendary Couples with Kids. And I'm really excited to get into a conversation with them today because very recently, especially with everything with COVID 19 and my gosh, the things going on in the world, so many shifts in the world. There's a lot of people struggling with relationships right now. And I really felt this heavy when I posted about me and my husband's anniversary. And I shared that we had not always been the perfect couple, that we had had struggles that we almost divorced. And it was amazing how many questions I started getting about relationships and I got sort of a giggle out of it because I am definitely nor is my husband, not a relationship coach. So that made me want to dive in more and actually get some real resources for you, some real help. So thanks so much for being here today, Lance and Brandi.

Oh, thanks for having us.

Thanks, Natalie. Yeah. One of the things I love. Go ahead, you go.

No, go ahead, go ahead. What were you going to say?

Well, I was just going to comment. I think one of the things I loved about what you just said is that People started coming to you because you were sharing your struggles and your story. Right. You know, legendary couples with kids was born out of us just sharing our struggles. And people going, us too, and can you help us? And we thought, well, what'd you do? What'd you do? We weren't coaches either. We're just people. Two people that were almost divorced that did some work, and then we created a plan and people wanted to do.

That and decided to be authentic about it. One of our biggest struggles was we were like on Facebook, we look like we've got this beautiful life, beautiful children, beautiful house, careers, blah, blah, blah.

Right?

And everybody thinks we've got this perfect thing and we are miserable with each other.

Wow, that's so common too. In fact, there's a there I won't even mention, but most people will know who this is. There's a best selling author right now, very significant personality and speaker who is under a lot of heat right now because people thought she had this perfect relationship. And that's what everybody saw. And then now she's getting a divorce and people are attacking, which is, you know, it makes me sad for her because people are allowed to change and have that. But it's interesting how not sharing those struggles really triggered a lot of people. Like, hey, we thought you were perfect this whole time.

I think the struggle there is when you are giving advice and putting yourself in a position as an expert in a certain topic and not sharing the struggles as well as the successes. That's where I think the trigger came in for a lot of people, because a lot of people have reached out to us about this topic.

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense. Okay, so take us back because you all do have it together now and you're helping lots of people with this, but I know this was not who you always were. So take us back. First of all, how many kids do you have?

We have two girls, both kind of preteen. 12 and nine.

Okay, so how long have you been married now?

15. Real fast. 15 years.

15 years. And how long have you been together total?

17. Yeah, we were together two years. Yeah.

Okay, so take us through your relationship. Like what? When did you notice there was a breakdown, what was happening?

So our situation. Here's what's interesting about it. It's incredibly common. We lived a honeymoon phase. When we first got together. We were out wine tasting, traveling to Cabo. Right. We both had wonderful careers, nice houses, great cars, all the cool stuff. Right. We loved our lives together. And so the moment we had our first Daughter. Everything started to unravel. And, you know, for us, I mean, there's a lot of reasons why, you know, I could go all the way back to, like, childhood trauma and baggage. But the most common thing that we see with couples and what was happening with us is that you were trying to not shift the pie of responsibility and things on our plate, especially me, and our marriage got deprioritized.

Yeah. I think a lot of what happens, especially for us and a lot of couples with regard to parenthood, suddenly being sprung upon them. Right. They think they've got it figured out. They think they have a plan. And any parent knows that you can throw all those plans right out the window. And so when a relationship first gets started, you have all of this, like, Randy was explaining the romance and the passion and doing whatever you want whenever you want, and then suddenly, boom, parenthood. And now it's really, really focusing on finances, taking care of the baby, the marriage, getting deprioritized, and you're thrust into this like, well, wait a second. What happened to the wine tasting? What happened to the traveling? What happened to doing whatever we wanted? And if you're not on the same page and you don't get it together in that piece, you start to split apart.

And that's what happened. That's what happened. So, you know, go ahead.

When this was happening, were you. When you were going through that phase of, like, okay, things are changing. My marriage is not a priority. Do you remember feeling sad about that, or were you indifferent about it? Did it just become normal? And the reason I asked that is a lot of people start normalizing it. Like, oh, this is just what happens. You know, we're more like roommates. We're just friends.

He did. Yeah. Lance normalized it. I got angry.

Okay.

Yeah, I just have a more of a fiery personality. I was very involved in personal growth at the time and in all the other areas. Right. Like, you know, the whole theory of, you know, doubling down on a certain couple of areas in your life, and those are going really well and awesome. My marriage was never part of that, and it didn't need to be beforehand. And so for me, as I started to feel uncomfortable, I was very resentful about what was happening. And we did. We had a lot of conversation about it. We had a lot of therapy about it. You know, we didn't sit complacent. He definitely was like, what do you mean? At first.

Yeah. And then we did a wonderful thing and had another child. Right. I mean, we just added.

Yeah, right. In the middle of it all.

So stupid.

We love her.

It really took us out.

Yeah. That's as you regret later saying that. Right.

But we love you.

Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. So that's common, too, I would imagine. And I know that I hear that. So somebody gets in, three kids, four kids, five kids, and then what happens is the kids are grown and out, and now they really have a problem because they lost so much, you know, such a focus on their marriage. They became. It became all about the kids.

Right. And so many people have said to us, well, didn't you want to stay together for the kids? And it was the opposite process.

And we said, no, we were actually going to get separated for the kids. Because when we really looked at each other and that whole idea of, you know, not representing our marriage, you know, as authentic on social media and whatever else is, we felt like we were frauds in a lot of ways with that. And the real. The thing that hit us was that, was this, the marriage. If we wanted everything for our kids, and we really wanted them to have this fruitful and amazing life, and if relationships are the. Are really the cornerstone or the centerpiece of our lives, then they weren't getting a front row view of what marriage could really look like. And so we're like, we'd just be better off with other people. Right. Then maybe. Maybe they would actually get a better view of what a thriving marriage could look like because we weren't living it.

We weren't in love.

Yeah.

And so our daughters, you know, we all know how trauma imprints and all of that. Not all of us.

Right.

But we're very aware of the way that this works and continuing patterns. And so our daughters were getting a front row seat of a very mediocre relationship.

So how old were your kids when this was really at its peak of not being good?

Four and four and six. Four and seven.

Okay.

A little younger.

Six and three.

Natalie was two, I think, when I asked for divorce.

Okay, so can you. And I. And I'm sorry to keep going back on this, but I want. Because I know there's a lot of people listening in this struggle. I would love to hear from each of you, like, what your daily thought pattern was at that time. Like, what, were you angry? Were you sad? Were you trying to communicate with the other? Were you looking for somebody else? Like, what was the actual conversation you were having internally while you were at the worst of this?

I was depressed and I felt like a failure was really how I felt. I had really felt that I had Lost a lot of myself. Like, I didn't feel as though I was the same man that stepped into the marriage as I was as a dad. So I felt like a terrible dad. I didn't feel like a great husband. And because of those two things being what I identified myself with, I just felt like a terrible man. I just wasn't happy. And I felt like, well, you suck. You're failing. Your wife hates you. And those were the thoughts going through my mind. What am I gonna do now?

Yeah. And mine was really heavy on. Here I go again, repeating the pattern of my family, and I can't do this, and I have to get out of this and I have to show them different. And I was angry. I was angry at the fact that. That I felt at the time, which was a very skewed perspective, by the way. I felt at the time that I was working my ass off to better myself, improve my business and health and all of the things. And my husband was a bump on the log doing nothing. That's what that was. What the victim role that I had dropped into at the time. A lot of blame.

So I was just gonna say. So it sounds like you had a lot of. A lot of blame happening. Like a lot of. Okay, you know, I was the victim.

And he was the perpetrator.

So it's interesting. I made a post and I'm just going to read part of this that I, when I did this on my anniversary with my husband, and I had mentioned that what didn't work for us when we were on the verge of divorce, as I said, needing to be right, putting work before each other, forgetting what we loved about each other, blaming, talking to others about our blame, expecting the other to change and wanting to quit when it got hard.

Yes. Yes.

Okay.

Yes to all of it.

You summed. Yeah, you summed it up in your post.

Interesting. Okay. Yeah, it's interesting because when I wrote that, that really. And I knew that because I remember journaling so much about it at the time now I think that it's very common. And again, you know this better than me. I'm just. From what I hear, people I talk with, that those things are very so common that people really start to normalize those. And they think, okay, this is just common. This is what happens when you get married. And then there's this. This part that just say, okay, we're just going to suck it up and deal with it, or there's another part that ends it. Okay. So most suck it up and deal with it.

One of the first parts of our book, when we started researching, you know, the demise of marriage and, like, what happens is what. We found out that 50% of marriages end in divorce, and only 18% of people that stay together are actually happy.

18%, you said. Wow, that's a really. That's a discouraging number.

It's really unfortunate. Yes.

Right.

And so children are watching this, and that's the piece that I come to, you know, with our clients every time. What are your children witnessing? So if you can't get it together with who you're with right now, separate, improve yourself. Either get back into that relationship or find somebody else that you're more compatible with. Mm.

Okay. Before we get into what woke you up to changing and wanting to working, because I'm gonna. I really want to get into that and. And to. To show people how to bridge that gap, did either of you look for outside validation? Like, look for someone else or think of having an affair or, like. Because I know that's a heavy conversation too, where someone else gives you a compliment. Now you're like, maybe there's something else. Was that ever a conversation with either one of you?

No. On the affair, however, I had a lot of external validation with my business, with speaking and, you know, teaching. And, yes, there were a lot of men in my world. And so is there a part of it that I was. I was getting, you know, validation and attention? Right. That's probably the best word. Was I getting attention in other areas? Yes. Was I ever interested in an affair? No. No. You.

You know, I was so miserable with myself at the time that I wasn't out to try and find something.

Yeah. But as far as, like, filling my cup in other areas, I was drowning in my business, you know, that that was where I got. And it's attention. And so may it be, you know, emotional affairs, potentially, you could call it that. Right. Because I was being emotionally fulfilled in other areas of my life that were not my marriage.

So let me ask you this, because I'm sure that you've encountered couples that did do that, that did have an affair.

Yes. Yeah.

I've also heard that sometimes people having an affair will. They almost. It makes their marriage better for a while because it's. They stop being mad at their spouse. They get this fulfillment from someone else, and now they don't. They're not bothered as much.

And it's the makeup period.

Yeah. And that's what I'm. I'm curious about that. Why do you think that is? And what's the I mean, obviously I can see a huge danger in that. But I'm curious from your perspective, what you think. I mean, there's whole websites for how to help people get. Have an affair. It's crazy.

It's, you know, I mean, we could go down the whole path of people who are proponents for open relationships because there's also that sect of couples that, you know, just have these open relationships.

And maybe that works for people.

I just don't know.

I don't know how that would work for. No way could work for me personally. So I don't know.

How can you give all of yourself to someone else when you're doing that with somebody else? For me, it's just not for me. So I don't want to.

Another piece of this that is a core value for us is our spirituality. And this is a spiritual, faith based relationship that we have with each other. And so for us to go that deep and that vulnerable from a spiritual perspective, it really dilutes the water. When I'm. I'm giving myself right. In probably the most purest form capable, sure of giving myself.

It's interesting because I actually have two friends that I learned that they are. Am I saying this right? A polyamorous relationship. And my judgment came up right away. But the more I got to know them, I'm like, okay, I can accept that this is interesting and works for them. So I've worked on letting go of my judgment around it. Like, okay, that could work for some people. But I do in my gut feel strongly that if your goal is to have a happy marriage, like that's your thing. I think that's a very difficult thing. If your goal is just to fulfill something else, maybe that works. I don't know.

You know, this is just my opinion of it. I think if you step into a relationship where that's an agreement from the very beginning or what have you, I think that perhaps you have a chance on that working for you. I just feel as though if you're seeking something else from someone else that you're not getting from your partner, then there's something. There's a challenge there. There's something to overcome, there's something to work on, there's something to grow. How do you grow with this person if you're, if you're. If what?

You're missing a band aid on it from outside.

Yeah. So that's just right.

So if we're having a hard time fulfilling that intimacy bucket in our relationship, we need to level up. We need to have a Conversation. And that's our belief, though. I mean, I don't know how much judgment I have of other people. I mean, it's one of those things that I've really tried to work through.

Right.

Judgment in general. Right. And so I don't. I can't really put myself in those shoes because that's not a belief that works for my personality, for my soul. Really.

Yeah.

Like this is a soul based relationship that we've developed. I don't want to. I'm not willing to risk that.

And not just, oh, sorry. Not to say too much on this, on this particular topic, but I want to share that one of my friends that's in that type of relationship. What she said that did land for me was that she felt if her husband truly loves her and wants the best for her, then he has to love that about her too, that she wants that. So when she said that, I got a glimpse of, okay, I got that. That maybe works for you guys. So that was how my thought, we're all made different.

That's the part that I always go back to, is that we have all been created different. It was so many topics. Sure. So I'm just not. We're not experts in this topic.

Yeah. Okay.

There are people that are, you know.

Maybe that'll be another episode because I'm curious. So tell me what woke you guys up to now wanting to. Because you went from wanting a divorce. And I want to know. I have so many questions here, but like, who asked for the divorce? Was it mutual? And then how did it go from that to let's work on this.

So it was not mutual. I was adamant about the divorce. I had started looking into divorce attorneys and separation and things like that on my own without him. Not that he didn't know that it was not in a good place. Right. And I had asked him to move to our guest room and start looking for an apartment and, and things like that. And you know, honestly, the saving of our marriage has a very deep faith component because I believe that, or we both believe that. You know, nothing happens by accident. Right. And so randomly I have a coffee date with a mentor of mine on this women's mastermind that we're creating. And, you know, I sit down with her and she makes some comment about wanting it to be co ed and I'm like, nah, I'd rather it just be women. Like, there's enough things out there that are co ed or there's enough things out there per men. Like, let's make this a. You Know, women's mastermind for leveling up. So we're in this conversation, and she's like, what's going on? Like, why are you so adamant about this? And I explained to her what's going on in our marriage, and she just stops. And she's like, we're not here to talk about, you know, this mastermind. She's like, we're here to talk about something else. She said, I've had a couple of divorces myself, and I know your husband, and I'm telling you right now that you need to really think about what you're willing to trade.

Wow. I just got chills hearing that.

Yes. What are you willing to trade? Because no one is perfect, and neither are you.

Wow.

And so your husband is going to attract a intense, badass woman just like you, because that's what he attracts. And so is that the person that you're willing to be in partnership with and raising your children? Like, those whole thing?

Right.

So I have this, right? The. The. The organization that we were expanding is this men's mastermind called GoBundance. And the CEO at the time was a guy that I was working with, and he and I are having this conversation simultaneous, right in the same time we have a conversation, and I have this thought, and I'm like, because I needed a new coach. It was right at the beginning of the year. I needed a new coach at the time, and I really wanted somebody to kick my ass. And he was this really intense guy. You can look him up. His name's Rock Thomas. And so I'm like, rock, I want you to coach me, man. Like, I. I need your fire right now. And so we Rock and I start coaching. And he was. And one of the first, you know, we go through the whole life, right? What's going on here? What's going on here? What's going on here? I was like, well, my marriage sucks. And he was like, all right, tell me about that. And he was like, so what you're telling me is you want to be in a polarity, masculine, feminine relationship, but you are bulldozing your husband.

Whoa. Yeah.

Oh, shit.

I think we're the same person. That was exactly. I understand that.

Yeah. He's like, you're emasculating your husband. You're bulldozing your husband. He's like, what you want? You're not being the participant. That is required.

Can we dive a little deeper on that right there? Because this is actually such a triggering thing for some women that are strong. They don't understand and it's funny because when I said what worked, and I want to read the other side of that post I talked about when I said what worked. I just want to read this to you real quick.

This is so funny. You have a post on this.

Choosing love, Patience, meaning our commitment. Working on ourselves and taking personal responsibility. Lots and lots of personal development. Loving ourselves, listening, letting the unimportant things go, remembering our intentions, working through things, creating space to be with each other. And men, if you want a strong women to be safe. I'm sorry, men, if you want a strong woman, be a safe place for her. Strong women need to feel safe and secure. Step into your masculine. Women, if you want a loving man, you must love yourself and be loving to them. Step into your feminine. You also know what that means if you don't. Please, please read up on that topic. I had so many questions about that, and I had some. Some hate around that too. Like, this is, you know, 2020. What do you mean? Be more girly. And that's not what that means. Can you from you all explain what that means?

Absolutely. This is still something that I have to be very intentional about. Okay. It is in my DNA. It is in my history to be a survivor, right? To check the boxes, get shit done, be a hustler. And so it's hard for me, unless I'm incredibly intentional, to transition into that softer, creative loving, encouraging to my husband. Right? Safe, sensual, sexy place. It's hard for me. It just is. If I'm not intentional about it. If I don't stop and say, brandi, pause. Right now you're in badass mode. And badass mode doesn't serve your marriage. So you gotta shift right now. Like, for me, it's, you know, breathing into myself. And, you know, I have practices around it. But what started to happen is he started. So my coach, Rock, at the time, he asked me, he said, well, how often are you directing and correcting your husband?

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, the coaching and criticizing.

Yeah. Well, I was a coach at the time, right? I'm a business coach. And so I'm like, well. Well, I mean, I'm sure it's pretty often.

Yeah.

And he was like, let's go two weeks. Let's see. Let's go two weeks. And each time you stop, let's start over. And I was like, wow, okay, I'm gonna go home tonight from the office, and I'm gonna. Whoa. Like, even the little things, grab the mustard, you know?

Oh, my gosh.

Prep the di. All the things no, we don't put the shoes on. No. Grab our shoes, you know, with that. We have two little kids at the time. And so directing and correcting was, like, my number one thing. And so that shift a little. Ladies.

Lance, from your perspective, can you speak into that, too? Like, did you. Did you recognize that that was happening or. Because I know a lot of times, like, my husband will say, he almost leveled down. So the more I was coaching, criticizing, he would see himself leveling down and being less than that, masculine, to create that polarity. And that made him not happy.

Yes, I would say I would see that, but we were also talking about it. I think part of the story Randy didn't tell was that she came home from, I think, that meeting with your mentor and said, we're not going to get divorced right away. We're going to what we call putting the marriage on the shelf. So we took away the pressure that a lot of couples feel around this stuff, around intimacy and friendship. And, you know, we need to fix this. We need to date each other. We need to connect. We said, time out. We're going to spend. I think we gave ourselves, like, 90 days or something like that to work on ourselves. And so she started doing the things her coach was telling her to do, while I started seeking a coach as well and doing the things that I wanted to do to make myself be the man that I wanted to be. So stepping more into my masculine.

So we stayed separated, essentially.

Yeah, we stayed separated. What essentially started to happen was that we started to actually like ourselves. I think not only did I notice these things in Brandi, but I also started to see that she was enjoying who she was as well as I was enjoying who I was becoming. And so I think there was this moment where we're like, well, wait a second, we actually like each other again now. We actually like each other, but we can't go through the same pattern that we had before, because while our marriage was crumbling, it had its moments of good. It was like, good and then suck, and then good and then suck. And I even remember sitting on the bed with her one time before she asked me for a divorce where she was actually cuddling me and loving on me. And in my brain, Natalie was, how long is this going to last? Because I know it's going to be crappy again.

Wow.

And I wanted to get out of that cycle. And so we looked at each other and said, we can't. We cannot go through these patterns again. So what are we going to do to cast a vision for this marriage so we can stay on this journey, this personal growth journey, that. Our own personal journey, but also combine this so that we can take the best of each other and create the marriage that we dreamed of.

Started over.

We just started over.

So what would you say? Because there's definitely people listening where either the husband or the wife want. The person listening, wants to do that. They're like, I want to. I hear what you're saying. I don't like the alternative. I want to work on this, but my spouse does not. What do you want to say to them? Because can they get their spouse to do it? Or what do you advise in that situation?

So, you know, all we have is our story, right? What worked for us and what's worked for clients for us. And what worked for us was I had to throw down. I had to say, here's the line in the sand. We will not do this anymore. I need a divorce. And if we're gonna. And then when I came back and said, if we're gonna do this, we need to do it right, and it needs to be the best marriage that we can possibly create. Are you willing to do that? But honestly, Natalie, seriously, I don't know if he would have been there if he hadn't had that time of me. We were separated. Like, he needed to feel. Because here's the thing. When do we move in life? We move when we are. We want more comfort when we're uncomfortable. And I had to make him really uncomfortable in order to move. And I'm not saying that it didn't take me also moving, right? Because what Rock did for me in coaching was expose trauma that I was trying to avoid. And part of what my hustler was, part of what my masculine tendencies were, were trying to not feel the reality of my life.

Oh, my gosh. Reality of. Relate to that.

Yeah, that's what it is. It's being. It's almost like, you know, the addiction of being busy, right? That's like what I had. I didn't want to sit in my own shit. It's really what it was. And so it was staying busy, all these other things, right? And that's where that masculine really came in for me. So the other thing is communication, right? So people will say, I have said X, Y, and Z. I have said before that I'm not happy. I have this and that and this and that. Well, there's a few things with communication. Number one is you're in a partnership, right? There's two people. You both probably have different communication Styles. Right. So you're talking at them the way that you like to be talked at, and so they're not actually yours. You. It's been paid off. Right. And so that's a piece of it. Communication, just basic communication skills. So trying different ways to communicate and being very, very clear. Very clear. Because a lot of times people are communicating in the heat of the moment. This is what I'm talking about. Don't. This is. This is why this isn't working. I don't want to do this anymore. It's over. Right. Those kind of conversations, instead of stepping back, sitting within yourself, dropping into your heart and saying, how do I really feel and what do I really want? You know what? I feel alone. I feel like we are not moving in the direction that I want to move. And this is what I want. I want a relationship where we are thriving, where we are friends, we are partners, we are deep lovers, and our children are seeing what is possible. Right. Very different conversations.

So focusing on the vision and the possibility versus what's wrong. So you had to shift with that.

It's okay to say how you feel. I think it's important to say how you feel. But a lot of times it's like the blame Finger. Finger. Right. All of that's going on, and it's happening in the heat of the moment. Instead of, like, think about this. When you're preparing for something that really matters, what do you do? You put time into it. Like, our daughters just made comp soccer this last week. I had a conversation with her last night. What does it look like now for you to prepare for the season? It's extra training.

Right.

It's getting coaches. It's getting ready. It's preparing yourself. This is a very important conversation, and people are not putting the time into preparing the conversation that it deserves.

Yeah.

You know, another part of your comments or questions, too, Natalie, about the personal growth or people wanting to work on something or work on themselves when the other partner isn't coming along. And how do you get them to. I get this question a lot from men. You know, I participate in a dad's group where they're like, well, I'm doing all this stuff, and now my wife doesn't want to do it.

And.

And I remember with Brandi because she's been in personal growth for a long time. And I said, if your personal growth is all about you, then she's never going to come along. And that's what Brandi was. Her personal growth was all about herself.

So interesting. Yeah.

So, like, for example, when I started mine, I started meditating, right? And the dude from Headspace, his name is Andy. And I always remember, like, the third time I meditated, he said, now remember who you're doing this for. And so although I'm growing myself, I've got to remember that I'm not the only one that needs to win that. What I'm doing is for Brandy, and it's for my kids, and it's for our whole family unit. So a lot of these guys that go, okay, I'm personal growth. I'm going. I'm becoming sauce, and I'm reading all these books, I'm like, great. How are you bringing your wife along? How are you really modeling this? Because right now, she's probably looking at you as though you're leaving her behind. So if you don't model this in a way that shows that she wins too, then it's not going to work.

That is what I did.

Yeah, that's what I was doing.

You know, it's interesting. We have. You and I have a lot of similarities, Brandi, but the way you manage yourself is the way my husband did. Interesting. So just for listeners that don't know my whole story, it was about three years ago that my husband Brooks, he said to me after I had started some personal development because he had given me an ultimatum to start it. I went in, completely regret not wanting to be there, fighting it. But when I started that, he said to me one night, he said, I don't know that I want to be married to you anymore. And my first step in stepping into my feminine versus my masculine is my masculine wanted to say, all right, then, get the F out. I'm done. And, like, pack up. I just didn't. As soon as he said that, it was like, rejection. I'm done. I'm over you. I'm moving on. And I stopped myself from doing that and just listened and just decided that he can do what he needs to do, but I'm going to still love him. And I gave him the space, and he left for over a month. He drove across country, and I. Instead of gossiping and blaming and being hurt and being in victim mode or anything, I said, I'm going to use this time to work on myself and just love him. And that's was an example to me of stepping into my feminine, just creating that space to not control and criticize and just let him be and just love him.

And that's also healing. It's also healing. You went from, you know, it's A trauma response for us to say, no, I'm just gonna go, then make sure you do you. Right. But instead, what you said was, you know what? No, wait a minute. I'm gonna look at this for a minute.

Yeah. And I don't know why I figured do that, but I did it, and I'm glad.

Yeah.

Well, because you really loved him.

Well, it was also my second. He's my second husband, and I was. What hit me was, do I want to do this again? Do I want to have another divorce? Yeah.

So what.

When you decided and you both were committed now, like, we want to work on this. We're going to do this. What were the steps that you started to take? And was it. Did you have setbacks?

Oh, yeah. We still do.

Yeah. We're still human, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure this week he's pissed me off at something. It's just life. But, you know, I am a big whiteboarder.

You are a big white. What did you call it?

White border. Yeah, Whiteboards. I, like, post its.

Yeah.

And so we sat down for one of our. So one of the first things that we did before we got to this point, because this is a very pivotal point for us, but one of the first things we did is we started making time decided. Okay, so he's a health coach, and I'm a business coach. I was. That's what. That's one of the things we did back then. And so. Okay, so what do you do for your clients? Right, you sit down.

Yeah.

Where you're going? Right. Where are you going? What do you do? You got to give it time. You've got to check in. How's it going? You got to pivot, like, all of these things. Right. And so we sat down and we started there. Okay, what do we want? How do we want to feel? What do we want this relationship to look like? And so we started checking in every single day. Okay. So we made these commitments. How did it go? Every night before bed. And this is actually how our book got created.

What's the title of your book, by the way?

The Miracle Morning for Couples.

Okay, got it.

And so the Miracle Morning was one of the tools that both of us adopted when we were bettering ourselves. Right. At the end of that year, before we got back together, I met Hal Elrod, the original author. We were both speaking at an event, and we were both in the first two people at the. You know, like, before the event, you meet each other. Right. We were the first two people there. It was like hey. Hi, nice to meet you. Whatever. So anyway, I started reading his book, I started doing the miracle morning. And then Lance ended up going to his event. And because I couldn't make it, my sister was having a baby. And so Lance goes to his event, meets him, starts doing the miracle morning. And so it transformed us. I mean, really, just side note for momentum and success, we really have these beautiful bookends in our life. We have our morning and we have our night. And what we do in the morning and what we do at night makes every bit of difference of what happens in the middle. Right. And so we both started doing that. Well, part of our nighttime routine was this check in process. Hey, how did I do? And there was no judgment, There was no shame. It was just like, you know what? This kind of made me feel off. Or like, this worked. This didn't work. Okay, cool. Let's try again tomorrow. And we really became students of our relationship and observers. Right?

Yeah. You know, we really, we gave each other the safe space to mess up, to kind of guinea pig what we, you know, we knew what we were doing before wasn't working, so we better try a bunch of other new things to see what sticks. Right. And so, and we also took small steps. I think a lot of people think, well, now we've got to pile on all of these commitments and habits and everything. It's like, no, today, one thing at a time. So our little night routine, had our morning routine separate. We did our night routine together. And it was just these little steps. Okay, now that we're good at this, let's just like atomic habits. Right? Then adding this, then adding this, started.

Doing weekly date nights. And we were very intentional about our date nights. We just kept it simple. Like we didn't put any pressure on intimacy, although that naturally started to happen. And we were like, okay, pause. We've fallen back in love. We're having a ton of fun together. What did we do? And we got a bunch of post its and we had this big, huge glass wall in our sliding glass door. Sliding glass door in our living room. And we just started putting post its up. And all of a sudden we saw this theme. We were like, wait a minute. We started by working on ourselves. We got our partnership in lockstep. Like any business, we knew who was doing what, what the schedule was. There was no irritation happening. Not a lot. Right. Less irritation in the stuff that frustrates people with new children, you know, young kids and businesses and all of that. We had a lot going on. And then we Started becoming friends with each other. I love that again. And then we became lovers. And that's how we developed the four elements. Was literally with post its on that board.

So when you said post its, what was on these post its and what did a date night look like? Does that. Was it like, were you doing unique, original things? Did it just mean going to dinner? Like, what did it mean? And what was on the post itself?

That's a great question. Yeah. Because we actually have sort of theme dates. So, Brandy, just to mention really quickly, we have these four relationship elements that were developed from us slapping these post its up on the sliding glass door of what we had been doing. And they are you, which is ourselves working on ourselves, you, partners, friends, and lovers.

In that order.

In that order.

That's how you work in your relationship. You build the foundation. If you don't have two happy, healthy, individual, confident people, it's really hard to be in a solid partnership. Think about that in business, right? You have somebody as a business partner that's kind of meh. They're not a solid business partner. Right? And then we have our partnership. And one of the things that we talk a lot with couples about is the partnership loop. This is where people get stuck. We get stuck in the business of our relationship because we're not running it like a business. We're fumbling through it, hoping that it gets better, hoping that we have to doing the dishes.

How are the kids getting fed? How are they getting soccer?

Right?

And then it kind of weighs on one party over the other. And so that kind of stuff happens, right? And then once we have that going, then it's friendship. We get to know each other again. Right. Deep knowing is what we. We say in friendship. And then lovers is the intimacy, flirting and things like that. But for us, like on the post its, it was, what are we doing on our date night? So our date nights, we literally just started pulling questions out of a hat and sitting with a glass of wine or a cup of tea on our back deck, Watch the sunset and just ask questions for each other.

These are our first date nights when we decided we wanted to stay together.

Yes.

Let's keep it simple. We can't jump into the heavy, heavy stuff right away.

How do we make our sex life better?

Right? I mean, it's like we're not there yet. So we would pull simple questions out of that. Tell me about the most embarrassing moment of childhood.

Right? Your best friend is a kid.

You know what's funny? That is legit. What happens when you first Meet somebody. You know, like when you, you first start dating, you're so inquisitive and like.

Or you just become friends with somebody when you're little. What's your favorite color? Yeah. What do you like to do?

You know, it's interesting because we do forget that like you think about just even a cell phone. How does. How many couples you'll go to dinner and you'll see like a couple on a date, but they're like so paying attention to their cell phone the whole time versus each other, you know, or so I like that deep questioning because it's like it's this whole other experience. And if I think, if I really think about it, like the pivotal times with me and Brooks, it was when we were just with each other without the cell phones and whatever, like literally looking in each other's eyes, having like deep conversations. And I even forget that, like I forget that we grew up or having.

Fun or having fun. Like we forget as couples, especially when we have young children, that we were friends first. Like there was a courtship that happened. And so trying to find ways. And that's individual for every couple. Right. Some couples are like, let's go skydiving. Right. And some couples are like, let's go wine tasting. Like, what is it that you enjoy together? Like having similar hobby of some sort that you guys can do together. And so now let's like fast forward real quick. You know, we consistently do four date nights a month, one on one with ourselves. Okay. A you day where self care, like time alone. Sometimes I go take a bath. Sometimes it's like I need to just go out and sit at a coffee shop and journal or update my.

So is that like the other one takes on parent role that night and you do what you need to do? Yes.

And you flip or you hire a sitter. Depends on financial means. Right.

So your time alone is one of the date nights a month.

14 date nights a month. The first one is time alone.

That's the second one. Yep.

The second one is let's sit down and talk about business. What are our goals for the month?

Okay.

Plans. Yeah. What do we need to get done? What's the schedule? Who's doing what? You have any big travel plans?

Like we'll even pull in the budget. We know that that is the most unsexy thing to talk about on a date, but I will tell.

Yeah, I hate that.

Oh, it's uncomfortable. Right. But that's where a lot of the growth happens in the relationship is when you actually tackle some of those really uncomfortable subjects. And I will tell you, I think Brandi and I have come out feeling more victorious and connected and like. Yeah. High fiving and loving on each other and some of those super uncomfortable partnership dates.

Okay. My hands sweating thinking about that. We haven't done that in the beginning.

These are uncomfortable.

Yeah, I think that would be really uncomfortable. I like to just not know and let him manage. But you're right, it's not based on me too. You and me both. Yeah.

Right.

Or in the business, just hire an assistant to do it.

Yeah, I literally. That is definitely a gap with me. I do not pay attention or want to pay attention. But you know what? It's interesting. Do you know, I'm curious, Brandi, do you find that. Was that how it was with like your dad? Because, like, that's how it was with my dad. So I've repeated that pattern. Like he made.

Oh my gosh. We could do a whole other podcast in my childhood. No, I don't know. My dad was in prison.

Oh, wow. That's a whole other topic. Yeah. So what's interesting is when my. My dad did everything like that with my mom. She was a stay home mom and didn't. And then. But when my dad died when he was just 49, that my mom was, you know, only 47 and she had it for the first time. Pick all that up. So I've known in the back of my head how dangerous that is. But it's like, I think we do repeat patterns there.

We absolutely. Or we repel them. Right. It's either we repeat or we repel. Because clearly if I was like my parents, I would be, you know, in prison or an alcoholic or, you know, whatever it may. Drug addict.

Yeah. That's all. We're gonna have to have you on solo for that.

That's a whole other. But the truth is that what we just talked about right there, that is the root of the demise of my relationship. Why was I so driven by success at so such a young age? Why did I have to have those external accolades to the level that I wanted them. Right. Because I wasn't good enough. I didn't have enough self worth.

I can see that. I'm completely. I've learned that's my pattern too. You know what I'm wondering? I don't want to get too off track here, but I've known, noticed the more I've learned to step into my feminine and let go and like compartmentalize the masculine, like use it when I need to.

Yes.

The More I've done that, the less hard I work and focus, actually, the better I do, which is so.

Amen.

I never would have believed that before.

Same here. Yeah, it's like work smarter and not harder.

It's totally changed my perception about. I don't. I don't work 12 hours a day ever anymore like I used to. Sometimes I'm working like three hours a day, and I do so much better. It's crazy.

Yeah. It's a burnout. Yeah. It doesn't serve us and. But I mean, sometimes, like, you know, having your month away from Brooks, like, sometimes we have to get uncomfortable before we're able to make those transformations. And that's what it was for me as well. Like, I had my coach at the time. Made me really uncomfortable.

Yeah. Okay, so you said to bounding it back to these four date nights. Time alone. Talk about businesses a second. Then you saw a friendship one and a lovers one. Friendship one.

Do something that you have.

Just fun. Just.

Yeah.

Maybe it's something new, even. Go someplace new. Or do something you both love together.

Or you play a game. Have fun, ask questions, do think. Do something light hearted. We are not talking about business and we are not putting pressure on intimacy. That does not mean. Yeah, we'll have intimacy.

Okay. I love it.

Great. But the pressure isn't on. That. That's not the. The intent of the date is to enjoy each other's company. No cell phones. No.

Don't talk about the kids.

Right. Don't talk about the kids. Either get a sitter or train your kids to let you date.

I love this. Okay. I'm gonna do all this with Brooks. He doesn't know yet, but this is gonna happen.

The fourth one is like, dating, like, you first when you first met.

Okay.

It's flirting and courting and it's a nice dinner. Intimacy, you know, setting it up like you recording each other from the very beginning.

I love that.

Right. With intimacy, you know, you don't have to have intimacy.

Right?

That's not in every. You know.

If this is four times a month. So basically every week except one. One in a month. I'm sorry.

This is so.

Oh, you. This is all in a week. You do these four.

No, no, no. One date night a week. Right?

So. But one of those Time alone. So it's like. Okay, got it. So there's really three. So everyone can figure out a way to have three date nights. Because some of this can be done literally at your house. Like, so that's not an exception. Like, you can Go sit outside and drink wine. Or you could watch something funny or like, you could do these at home.

The product that we're launching right now is date your spouse without leaving the house.

I love that. Okay.

Literally. Because that's what. Had this happened for us before. So, I mean, this is a whole other subject. We quit our lives three years ago, sold everything, quit our jobs, got rid of my business, all of the things. Moved to a small farmhouse and homestead and homeschool our kids for the last three years.

Wow.

Okay.

So as we made that shift. So we made. Yeah, that's a whole other topic. But as we made that big shift, we started being home more. And one of the things. So we've taken our children along on this journey as well.

That's so amazing.

They knew that our marriage wasn't doing well. Our older one especially could feel it. And when we sat down with them and said, you know, daddy and mommy are working on our marriage and we want to stay married, this is what this is going to look like. One of the things we're going to do is a date night. And so sometimes we would do it when they went to bed. Sometimes they were. They were home. And how do they do it now?

They will say things like, do you.

Guys want to have a date night?

We want to watch this movie together. That's right. You guys get out of the house and go and hang out and have.

So here's the tip for that. This is like a pro tip.

Okay?

Save good things. If you have young kids, save the good things for date night. Save the new movie release, Save the new game. Save that thing for date night. Because then you're like, oh, my gosh, guess what you get on Thursday night. The new SpongeBob movie or whatever it is. I don't know what's in right now, but, you know, whatever it is, give them extra. If they play Roblox, give them extra Roblox money. You guys get 20 bucks tonight to go play Roblox, to go build whatever you want to build.

How old are your kids now?

11 or 12 and 9?

They'll be 12 and 9.

Okay. I have an almost 13 year old, so. Okay, got it. Okay. This is really good. So this is great. I love all this.

What?

Okay, a couple just rapid questions around this.

Yeah.

If somebody is listening right now and they are on the verge of a divorce, what do you want them to know right now? Or what do you want them to ask themselves?

Well, first I want them to know that there is hope. Because at the time When I asked Lance for a divorce, I. In my mind there was no other option. That was where we had to go. And I am, we are so in love right now. And it stayed that way. We are on six years now of doing this thing right that we get to do now. And I wish that for everybody. So there is hope, number one. And number two, do not sit stagnant. Do something. You have to do something. And if that means that you have to sit down and have a really uncomfortable conversation or send an uncomfortable email, because sometimes conversation doesn't work.

Or seek help.

Yeah, seek help. Right. But we have a free guide on our, on our website. It's called the Relationship Planning Guide. And I mean, it's like a mini course. We have video in there and a workbook and it essentially walks you through all of the relationship elements so you can sit down and have a conversation to design, co, create shared vision for your relationship.

It's one of our favorite things. We actually still use it for each other.

Yes.

Wow. Okay, I'm gonna, I gotta check this out. What about the couple that they're not talking about divorce, but they've become the roommates friends. Yeah. The complete. Because that's very common. What do you want them to know?

Same. Same.

Yeah.

Are you okay with the relationship that you have being modeled in your children? Is this the kind of relationship that you want for them? If yes, you're fine.

I think there's a lot of people that would say yes. That's what's so sad. They don't even know what there is on the other side.

Well, I would give them, ask them to take the opportunity or the time to dream of what it could look like. Right. Because for us, that's what we, when we decided, yes, we are going to stay together. We don't want to fall into these same patterns. So what are we going to do? We're going to dream of what this relationship can look like and have that conversation and. Okay, great. So we want to do this and we want it to look like this. What are the steps? What are we going to commit to? And this is what the Relationship Planning Guide kind of walks through is. What are you going to commit to? To fulfill that vision? Where are you going to pivot? You know, how are you going to check in? Right.

I want people to know. As somebody who's been married twice, who's very close with my ex husband now, like, we're good, we're all modern family, good friends, which is amazing. I'm friends with his wife, like we have a weird. We all do Christmas together. Like, we have a weird modern family now that we worked at. But what I want people to hear from me is the exact same things that almost broke up me and Brooks are the exact reasons I got a divorce the first time. So I believe that those patterns repeat itself. If you don't fix it.

Amen.

The next spouse is not going to fix the problems you think that it's going to. But unless you change and work on yourself, you will repeat the. Even though my husband now and my ex husband are completely different people, the same exact problems. If you were to ask my ex husband, why did we divorce, he would say the exact same things that Brooks had an issue with.

Because you're still there.

Yeah. You're the common denominator.

Right.

I mean, that's what I told myself. Two of my. What I call my guiding lights, I have three of them. But my two real important ones that I drive home with men a lot is I only have control of myself. Right. So if anything's going to change her, I have to be in control of changing me. I can't change Brandy. And two, that I'm actually responsible for my own happiness. She is not responsible for making me happy. Can she support my happiness? Can she encourage that? Can she join in on it? Absolutely. But it is unfair for me to hold her responsible to that. And I think that happens to a lot of couples. Right. They're like, well, you're not making me happy. You have to make yourself happy first.

Oh, my gosh. My husband would say the exact same thing. He would say that the stuff that triggers him about me or that triggered me him about me. Until he fixed those things with him in himself, they kept triggering. Once he fixed them within himself, all of a sudden he wasn't triggered by that.

Bingo.

Yeah. It's pulling the problem out at the root.

Bandaid on it. When do you recommend that people do get a divorce? Because I'm assuming there's some couples. There has to be some couple you've encountered that you wanted.

Yeah. This is. It's such a controversial topic. You know, we are not against divorce. If you have a abusive relationship, if you have somebody that is unwilling to kick an addiction, if you have. If it's unhealthy for the children. It takes two to party. It took both of us. Just because I work on myself does not mean that he's gonna come along. And if that continued to be unhealthy for our kids, I would have had to leave.

It's an Individualized decision, really. I have a few guys that I work with or I talk to that, you know, it's very. I find it very noble that they're willing to stick it out. But then I just ask them. I'm like, well, I'm glad that you're making yourself happy. And if you're okay with being unhappy with the marriage, then by all means, stick around. Right. I'm not going to judge them. I'm not going to tell them it's time to get a divorce. But I think we all come to that decision making process or that impasse. It's all a choice. Right. Do we want to figure out a way to make our relationship amazing, or are we willing to stay with where it is now, or do I want to go and find somebody else now that I feel like I'm awesome? That can be awesome with me. I think it's all a matter of personal decision making.

So many circumstances that happen, you know, there's so many.

And what's interesting is you didn't say affair, so it's because. I would think so. The non negotiables, at least for me.

That'S one that's personal. Like, some couples can work through that.

Yeah.

You know, sometimes that's a mistake that really took both parties to get there.

Totally. So from. If I'm hearing you correctly, sort of the reasons that might be non negotiable that you're like, done. It would be addiction. If somebody's not willing to fix the addiction or get the help. Because I'm sure there's the other side. Abusive. Someone's abusive to your. You or your children or whether it's verbal, physically, mentally.

Yeah, any. Yes.

And then the other one you didn't mention, but if I'm. I would imagine this would go along with not wanting to work on yourself, would be the narcissist. Like if you're married to a narcissist.

That's a great one.

Yeah.

Any experience around that?

Yes, yes. I have narcissists in my family. And yeah, it's toxic there. You're on a hamster wheel. You can't get off unless that person gets help. I believe that, you know, narcissism is an addiction.

Yeah.

You know, it's an addiction to selfishness, an addiction to self serving. Right. Not seeing any other perspective. And so.

Well, and you mentioned the, you know, the infidelity or the affair piece. Natalie, too. And I think what it made me think of is really that, like, for me and Brandy, we have a set of shared values. And every couple is going to have their own set of shared values or they should. They should develop those values. And I think the decision making process around whether or not you stick in the marriage or you separate or what have you is if those values are not being acted upon or they're not being adhered to. Right. I think if there's constant, you know, consistent, you're consistent, you know, going against the values, I think then suddenly it's like, well, why are we, why are we here? And so I think it all depends on what those values are for people. So I don't think I would ever say that for us, an affair would very possibly be a non negotiable.

It would probably be.

That would be a non negotiable for me. I don't think I would. Me too.

But those are your values. Those are our values. And it might not be exactly. You know, there's couples that come from.

From that and come out very well.

Wonderful. There's. There's couples that coach on that specifically. Right. Because they've gone through that. I think that's a beautiful thing. It's not something we could do, but it's something they've been able to overcome.

Yeah. Wow.

It would be the end for us, but again, it's kind of like the conversation we started the whole podcast on. Everybody's different, right?

Sure.

Everybody's different. Everybody has different values. Everybody has different things that they can tolerate. And I do believe in change. I do.

I do, too. I do too. I think there's just certain, like you just said, it's very unique and individual. I would say abuse, though, if anyone's listening. Abuse is a very difficult thing to fix. So if you are. You or your kids are in danger, I would say it's not necessarily getting relationship coaching that is definitely getting a bigger helper.

Right.

Well, this is super helpful. Okay. I need to know, like, all the places that people can find you, work with you. This is great. I hope this was so helpful to people listening. I believe it is. This answered a lot of questions. I've been getting a lot because again, I am not a relationship coach. But Lance and Brandi are. So how do they. You've got a book. Talk to me about your social media, your programs. What are all the places that people can find you and work with you?

The best place is Legendary Couples with Kids dot com. No. Legendary Couples dot com.

Legendary Couples Dot com.

That's our website. And before the chaos of the world, we were very active on Instagram and.

Are you legendary doc couples, Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

And legendary couples on YouTube.

Got it.

You like our YouTube channel? Our YouTube channel has a lot of great videos.

Yeah. That's actually the best place for people to go if they need, like, support resources. We talk about our elements on. There we go. We have a video on each individual element. We talk about the habits for your relationship. Like, there's. There's some really. Yeah. Really great stuff.

And then if people want to work directly with you. Do you do small group coaching? Individual coaching? How does that work?

Individual coaching right now. And I have a women's group that will open back up in fall for members.

The mom and wives tribe.

Yeah. And yeah. So right now it's. It's one on one. We will do. We have done and we will do group stuff.

So just not right now.

Right now is a weird time and we're.

Yeah.

We're like. We're really preserving our energy.

Plus, I would imagine you're living your work, so you've got to put the energy into your own relationship.

You're. Exactly. And we homeschool our children.

Yeah.

We do competitive soccer.

Yeah. You got a lot.

Yeah.

Super helpful. Thank you so much for doing this today.

Oh, you're so welcome. Thanks for having us.

I love the questions. A lot of good stuff. Thank you.

Thanks for leveling up with us today. Please share this episode if you found it helpful so others can join in. And don't forget to hit that subscribe so you don't miss out on future shows. And if you would leave me a five star review. I appreciate those so much. I read all of them and it's how I know that I'm giving you information that you find valuable. And come interact with me over on Instagram @nataliejofit. I read all the direct messages and comments over there. Make it a great day. Creating everything from nothing.