210: Addiction Relapse and Full Recovery with Vasavi Kumar

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned lifestyle and high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or have had a big setback? And how do we adjust quickly when life throws us major curveballs? On this podcast, I do what I do best. Taking complicated information that is relevant to us now and breaking it down simply with actionable steps. Steps you can implement to level up your own life. I also regularly interview some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on the planet who at their worst, learn how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling Up, Creating Everything from Nothing if.

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To go back and listen from episode one for the full transformative experience. As an eight Indian immigrant born and raised in New York City, Vasavi Kumar grew up being bullied. She smoked her first cigarette at age 12, had her first drink at age 14, and when her dad didn't like what she was up to, he pulled her from all she knew and put her in private school. This didn't help. She felt too Indian for schools and friends and she felt too American for her parents as she would describe. She said to me that she didn't know who she was looking for a way to feel connection and like she fit in. She turned to drugs and alcohol. She connected with others over getting drunk and high. Married at 28, divorced at 32, she was still on a search to feel something. She shared with me that ironically she always wanted to get high to feel connected, but that when she would, she would end up feeling alone in a second rock bottom spot. After a relapse from her first attempt to sober up and step into a much more powerful version of herself, Vasavi is now clean. Today she is an international public speaker, licensed therapist and business strategist with over a decade of experience teaching her clients how to simplify their business and the self love process. Join in today for a very candid conversation and learn exactly how Vasavi Kumar leveled up and created everything from nothing.

I'm excited to talk with you today because you are a 12 stepper. You have battled through addiction 12, but you're also a licensed therapist and you are clean as of March 2019 again for the second time. And what is so intriguing to me is that you were somebody. You're somebody that has been giving advice. You help with business strategy. You help people with confidence with their mindset. You're a licensed therapist. You're all of these things and all while you've been doing that, you were battling your own addiction in the past. So I'm dying to jump in today, understand how this even happens and then how you got out of this and why we know that you're committed to staying out of it. There's a lot of people listening today that are going to learn a lot from you today. So thanks for being here.

Thank you so much for having me. I absolutely love that question. Because I think it's the thing that I find, not only with my clients, but especially with myself, I had to learn this the hard way, is that, you know, especially those of us in the service based profession who want to help other people, oftentimes we're the last person on the totem pole, right? We are very outwardly focused, wanting to help, help everyone else, wanting to try to save everyone else. And then it's always us that's just kind of left on the back burner. You asked how did this like kind of begin? And I would say it started way back when I was a kid. I'm a first generation Indian immigrant. My parents came here from India in 1974. My sister and I, we were, you know, born and raised in New York. I know you're an east coaster and I'll never forget this. I was actually just sharing this with our mutual friend Alison the other day. But my house growing up was like Grand Central Station. Here's what I mean by that. Or like Penn Station. Or just think of really busy train station. Since my parents were the oldest in their family and they came over to the U.S. right. So they had this responsibility to cater to everyone when they landed in the US So my house was constantly busy with like distant relatives, people I didn't know growing up, and like just like, just people in my house all the time. And I remember this one instance, I must have been like 4 years old. But they were just like these aunties and uncles. We call them aunties and uncles. That's our way of like respectfully, you know, referring to our elders, even if they're not our aunts and uncles. I remember asking this one, auntie, auntie, when are you leaving? I mean, pretty okay question, right? I'm a kid, I want my parents back because my parents are so busy catering to everyone. I want my house back, I want my bedroom back, right? Because our house was just, you know, all the guests would stay in my sister and I's room and like my sister and I would sleep in our parents room. So everyone Else was comfortable. And I remember my mom overheard me saying, when are you leaving? She took me into the other room and she slapped me across the face. And my mother said, you never ask anybody when they're leaving. If they're in your house, you let them stay. You don't be rude. And so I mean, obviously my mom should not have slapped me. And I know her intention now as a 38 year old that her intention was to basically have me have a little bit more grace for guests that came into the house. I would never ask a guest that comes into my house, when are you leaving? But I was asking it as an innocent child. But as a child, how I like registered that in my mind was, okay, well no matter how uncomfortable I am, I have to put up with your shit. You can camp out of my house, you can camp out in my emotional energy force field. You could take up my time, you can take up my space. Basically there is no ending as to where you begin and where I end. There's no line, right. So I just got to suck it up and take it.

How old were you at this time?

Definitely like no more than five. I remember this because I had this really crazy ass bowl haircut. My dad used to like cut my hair. I just remember how old I was. It was like four or five years old.

So that's really young to have that awareness because I think a lot of kids at 4 or 5 years old, they say whatever they want, they ask whatever they want and they don't necessarily get slapped for it. They, it's, it's, it gets laughed off as a kids questions that you've made this connection as a four or five year old, that my comfort doesn't matter.

That's exactly right. That's exactly right. My comfort does not matter. My needs do not matter. And I'm very grateful to both my parents because they, you know, both of them did definitely teach me how to be kind and how to be generous. But they also taught me that there are no limits to how much I give. Right? Like it is there and you know, that's their own stuff that they're dealing with, right? Like they have, they have guilt that they've left their motherland and left their family. So now they feel this sense of responsibility. It is their job. They are the one. So while they taught me a lot of great things in my life, which, you know, has translated into my relationships and stuff both personally and professionally, they did not teach me how to say no and they did not teach me how to really Take care of myself. And so that really goes into the question that you asked me is like, where did this come from? It came from a young age where I really thought that it is my job to take care of other people. You also have to understand my mom. I love her very much. And I feel like I just need to say that because I'm not into bashing my parents at all. But I will say she's now a retired cardiologist. But my mom was someone that my sister, my dad and I, we would just wait for her to have her good mood. Right? It was very volatile with her because she did not know how to take care of herself. I was raised to have great work ethic. I was raised to be honest. I was raised to be a go getter and not let anything stop me. I was not raised or taught how to love myself. So my mother and father, they did the best they could with what they had. But I definitely have to learn the hard way that in order for me to really help and be of service to other people, I have to put myself first. And honestly, I've learned this most recently, probably in the past year, if I'm going to be completely transparent.

So as a kid, your mom's a doctor, which is so you didn't have, I'm assuming who was, who was the one that was staying home with you while your parents are working?

That's a great question. I usually stayed across the street with my neighbors or we had like a, you know, revolving door of babysitters. And at some point my sister and I just took care of ourselves.

So when was your first introduction to drugs and alcohol?

Okay, so I will say at 12 years old, I smoked my first cigarette. And I know that's not a drug, but when you're 12 years old, that's a drug. When you're 12 years old, what 12 year old is smoking cigarettes? I smoked my first cigarette when I was 12 years old. I grew up in a pretty much all white town. We were like one of two Indian families. And I wasn't really accepted at school. I was bullied. And so all the cool girls, and I say cool with parentheses, I mean with quotation marks. All the cool girls were smoking and I really wanted to be accepted. So that's when I first smoked my first cigarette. I drank my first drink when I was 14 years old. It was at a, like an Indian party. Everyone in the Indian community get together at fancy hotels. My first drink was a White Russian. It was so yummy. At the time.

I was 14.

At 14 years old? Yeah. I was at a family party and the bartender hit on me. It was weird. He was just like, you're so beautiful. And I just remember, you know, always feeling kind of invisible growing up. And when I got that attention, you know, and we're talking 14, like already, you know, going through puberty. And this bartender, who must have been no more than like 28, 29, said to me that I was beautiful. It just hit this part of my brain. Like I felt noticed. I felt really noticed. And I felt like I felt beautiful and I felt seen. And so when he offered me a White Russian, I said yes, because as long as I could keep getting his attention, why not? Who cares? Yeah. So I must have had about four White Russians that night.

And this is a family party. Did your parents know that you were drinking? Could they sense it? Were you hiding it? What was the.

That's another great question. And it's funny because you're making me think about these things that I maybe have not thought about in a while. But I will say I think they knew because we were all sitting in a, like a table of like 12 people. And I sat down on one of my dad's friend's lap. Okay, so I'm a 14 year old girl, kind of ish, going into like, you know, young adulthood. And I sat on my dad, male friend, right? His friend, his lap. My mom just looked at me like, what are you doing? I grew up in a very conservative, traditional Hindu household where Hindu Brahmins were like the equivalent of Orthodox Jews. Like, that is how conservative and traditional my family is. So, yeah, they did not say anything about it, but they definitely noticed. Like, why are you sitting on this man's lap? And that was the end. Like, they never said anything about it after that in the car. I think my mom might have yelled at me and said. What she usually said about me is, you know. You know, it's interesting.

I'm a parent of a 13 year old and I think of how many times I almost enable things. I say almost enable because I think it's very easy as a parent to. You see your child doing something that you don't like and it's almost easier to act like you don't see it than to address it. And I'm just owning it because it's terrible when I do that and I've interrupted myself because I can't do that. That's not parenting. But it's a very common thing and I would have judged it until I became a parent. And I see that happen. Like, you see your child, like, doing something you're not approving of, and you're like, do I really want to bring this up right now, or do I want to, like, act like it didn't happen? You know? So, yeah, I'm just. I'm trying to picture what's happening here. And did your parents know that you were drinking and ignore it? Did they know you know, and not want to deal with it, or do they not know? I don't know the answer to that.

I don't know. They definitely did not know because we did not have a conversation about it. I think my dad always wanted to look at me as his little innocent child. Little innocent girl. I'm the youngest of two girls, my older sister and I. And my mother, I think, was also a little bit in denial. Like, that can't be my daughter. Right. No one said anything about it.

And that's what I mean about the enabling. I think it can come up just, like, if my daughter's eating, you know, Takis that she loves and gets from who knows where because I don't buy them for her, you know? And then she. And I'm thinking, well, I'm a. I'm a fat loss expert. I'm a health and nutrition. Like, shoots. Can't be my daughter eating Takis. I'll just look the other way, you know? But it's still happening. Yeah. So, okay, so when did you start to connect the dots that you had to hide this? Like, was this. Did this start escalating at age 14? Was there a gap or was this, like, the beginning, gateway to other things?

I will say this, that because, you know, in the Indian community, what is really emphasized is status, socioeconomic status, what college you go to, what degrees you have. I was pretty head down, right? Head down, focused, good at math, good at science, writing, creativity. I was never camera shy, I'll tell you that. I was just very artistic growing up. And I really kept focused on school growing up. It wasn't until. It wasn't until the summer of going into freshman year of college that I actually started to do some stuff that I should not be doing. I was doing ecstasy. Like, the summer of going into college up until that point, like, 14 onwards, right? So let's talk about high school. I switched high schools. My dad put me in a private school, thinking that would help. And I was like, man, I'd be.

Help from what? Help from being what? Because you were already a good student.

What was it was the company that I was Keeping, right? So hanging with these, like, the popular kids at school. I was smoking cigarettes. I was sleeping over houses with no parental supervision. I was still getting pretty good grades because my mom would never let me off the hooks, school wise. And so in ninth grade, my dad sent me to private school. I went to a Lutheran high school. And I remember how hard that was because, you know, you go to, like, kindergarten, elementary, middle, and high school with everyone for, like, 18 years, right? I got stripped of that in my ninth grade, and I went to a private school. And it was. It was really hard. Like, that transition for me was really, really hard. But it definitely helped because I kind of got away from that environment. The kids that I was going to school with in elementary school and I was in a private school, whatever. And it just got harder because it was brand new. It was, like, hard to make new friends. I always felt slightly awkward. I was, like, the only Indian kid once again. And I think, like, in my sophomore year of high school, you know, more Indian kids joined the Lutheran school. But I do want to say this, and I failed to mention this earlier on. I actually started going to therapy when I was 12 years old. Okay. That was a huge step that I forgot to mention. Huge, huge piece that I forgot.

Whose idea was that? Your parents or yours?

It was mine. It was mine at 12 years old. Remember, I said I smoked my first cigarette, and my mom, she found the cigarette in the toilet because I'm an idiot, and I didn't know what to do. I put it in the toilet, didn't flush down all the way. And she came home from work, and she said to me, you are not my daughter. She's like, what is this? And I tried to come up with some lie. I said it was the guy cutting the grass. And it was like, you know, because I was so afraid. Stuck on my shoe. You got stuck on. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. And I was so afraid to tell the truth, Natalie, because my mom, man, when she was mad, she was mad. Like, it was like, no matter what the thing was, no matter what I did, it was always catastrophic. Everything, whether I forgot to close the lid on something, whether it was a cigarette in the toilet, it was always 0 to 100. And I just could not handle that. I couldn't handle the reaction. So, you know, things in our family started to escalate. And I said to my mom and dad, I think I need to see a therapist because I can't talk to you guys. And surprisingly, they said yes. So I started working with My therapist, her name was Virginia. I was with her for 16 years, up until I got married and felt really good to be able to talk to someone who didn't judge me. And I would say at 12 years old, that's really when I started to learn how to talk out loud and process my feelings and not feel ashamed of saying out loud what I was feeling and what I was experiencing. Therapy at that young of an age, what that taught me was it is okay to say how I feel and share how I feel, but I never felt safe enough to talk about it, especially with my mother. I literally had to pay a stranger to listen to me.

So you would get this relief at therapy where you could be yourself and share what's happening, what you're feeling, but you'd have to go home and sort of hide it from your family, then.

Well, here's the thing, right? I was too Indian for the kids at school, and I was too American for my parents. I never really quite fit in, right? Because I grew up in a conservative household. So listening to oh, my God, do you remember Shoop by salt and pepper? Of course you do. I remember I want to play shoup and dance around. And my mom would tell me not to do that. She's like, basically like, you look like a slut. That's basically what she would say to me. You look like a slut dancing like that. So at like, 14, 15 years old, right, wanting to dance, I immediately felt ashamed of my body, right? Can't dance around, can't wiggle my hips because now I'm a slut, right? So it's like very, you know, like, I'm neither here nor there. I'm too white for my parents. I'm too brown for the kids at school. I'm too slutty. If I want to dance, I'm just too, too, too. So then who am I? Wow.

Okay, so is this, what. When you became a freshman in college and you said you were escaping and doing ecstasy and that's when things started? Was that. Do you think, why, like, you did you feel at home doing that? What was coming up for you that you were turning? And I'm asking this question because a lot of people listening, that they're thinking of their kids or their spouse or somebody else, but they've never done drugs or they've not really. They're not relating. And I want to help them understand, too. Like, what was the attraction to that?

I was looking for people to accept me as I was. And oftentimes what I was most Attracted to were people who also didn't feel accepted at home and with their parents. And so because we're young, right? 18 is still young. I know in America, you know, you're an adult when you're 18. You don't know jack shit when you're 18, first of all. Okay, but at 18, I did not know how to regulate my emotions. I did not know how to build my own self esteem. That should have been done when I was a kid to feel good about myself. And because I did not know how to handle my darkness and my feelings, I gravitated towards drugs and alcohol. And I gravitate towards people who are also going through the same wounds and feelings of brokenness and feelings of not being accepted in their family of origin. And so I always attracted people who, you know, we were kind of, you know, rough around the edges, rough around the edges, didn't know how to handle our emotions. So we got drunk together, got high together, partied together. And that was really when it all started. Like it all just started. And then especially I was very sheltered in high school, right? I was not allowed to do anything like sweet sixteen's not allowed to go to. Wasn't allowed to go to these social gatherings. So when I went to college, I went buck wild. I went to Boston University for two years. Then I eventually had to transfer back home because it did catch up to me, all the partying. But in those two years, I mean, I think my GPA was like a 2.2. Like it was a 2.2, which was.

Low for you because you were always a good student.

I'm a 4.0 kind of girl. I am a 4.0 cardigan because I've always achieved very highly, always seeking after things to make me look good on paper. But I want to share something really poignant that happened sophomore year of college. I was in psychology class and at that point I was smoking weed every morning before my management classes. I was in the school of business.

You literally smoke weed before your class. Wow.

Take some bong hits. Yeah, take some bongits. And I lost my virginity in February of my sophomore year of college under the influence. And I probably went on this escapade of sleeping with seven men in a matter of three weeks. And I was taking a all unprotected, all under the influence. And I was taking a psychology class and the topic was on mood disorders. And I looked up and I passed that exam. Because there's one thing that I have always studied has been the nature of my mind and why Our mind tells us things and the conflict within our mind. I was always very enamored by my mind because all the thoughts in my head and the voices in my head felt so real when I say voices in my head, you know, just that dialogue that we're always having. And so I self diagnosed myself as bipolar. And it was the only. It made natural sense for me. It was like, oh, I have all these symptoms. I'm hypersexual. I have no need for sleep. I'm shopping excessively. I talk really fast. I have pressured speech. I have grandiose thinking. I mean, I was a classic case. And so sophomore year of college, I called my mother and I said, I think I have bipolar disorder. And my mother said to me so quietly, she. She said it in the most quiet way. It was like, not even my mother, she said to me, I think you need to come home. I didn't argue with her because I knew that if I kept up like this with the partying and the sex and the drinking and, you know, I wasn't gonna graduate, and it was just gonna get worse. And I was truly, truly helpless. And that was the first time I think I had ever listened to my mother without a single argument. Mm.

She knew. She just sensed it. And it got right through to you. Did you. When you figured out I have bipolar? This is. I gotta stop. I've gotta change. Did you know the connection with the drugs yet? Did you know that that was an escape?

Did you?

What did you look at that as?

It's so funny. You asked such good questions, by the way. When I looked at all the symptoms, I just looked at the symptoms of my bipolar. I was like, oh, I'm just bad. Like, these are just behaviors that I have. I never thought to ask myself, what is the root of the problem? But that's a great question. So I just looked at the symptoms. I was like, well, I'm doing this, this, this, and therefore a problem. So when I transferred back home to Long island, first thing my mother did was take me to the fanciest psychiatrist on Lexington Avenue. And he gave me the mood disorder test. I passed with flying colors. And he said to my mother, you know, your daughter's very intelligent. She diagnosed herself, right? And like, you know, most, you know, Western medicine doctors, they put me on a cocktail of medication. Lithium, Topamax, Risperdal, Depakote.

Oh, my gosh. All at one time.

All at one time. And I just remember my parents were so happy because they're like, you're gonna get better. Now, because you're on all these meds. I gained 45 pounds within a matter of probably four months because my appetite was insatiable. I would like. I remember coming home and I was at school at Hofstra University on Long Island. I'd come home to eat lunch, and I would eat tripled amount than what I actually needed. But I was so numb. Like, I was literally, like. It was like a horse tranquilizer. I felt like I was being tranquilized.

And were you taking any of the street drugs when you were doing this, or did that all stop when you came home?

What a great question. Again. The day that I got diagnosed, I went over to my friend's house and I did an eight ball of cocaine.

Wow.

Because the first thing that my mother said to me when after I got diagnosed, and we're on the street, we're on Lexington Avenue, she looked at me and she said, don't tell anyone that you've gotten diagnosed. Don't tell anyone about the bipolar disorder. So then we went to Penn State.

So more of the story plays out of having to hide who you are.

Hide who you are. There's a lot of shame. People are going to judge you. Do not tell anyone that you have this label. So just like that, nothing happened. We went to cvs, got our Medicaid, got my medication, went to my friend's house, did an eight ball of cocaine, and then started my medication probably that next day.

I'm pretty certain you're not supposed to mix lithium with cocaine, but.

No, not at all. And alcohol, right?

Yeah. So, yeah.

I mean, this is. This feels like a forever journey. It's like. It feels so.

Yeah. No, but this is important because it's good to understand, like, how this happens, you know? And I mean. I mean, as I'm asking you these questions and listening, I'm just picking up on a lot of things that we as parents tend to do that we think we're right. Like, we think we're going to control, we're going to protect, but it's just creating a bigger issue. Like this whole. I get that don't tell anyone that you're diagnosed with this, or don't tell anyone this, but we're just creating another shame loop, or I'm going to pull you away from everyone you know and put you in private school. We're creating a bigger disconnection. Like all these little things that we as parents do. To think we're helping our child is just control. And it just. There's a reaction to that.

I want to say this with the utmost respect to your audience who are parents and maybe struggling with this. When I was diagnosed, I was labeled as the black sheep and the sick one in the family. And I remember my parents never went to any support groups and they never read about how to deal with a child who has bipolar disorder. And it actually, I'm like, emotion. I have some emotion around talking about this right now because I just remember when I would be in a bad mood or I'd be upset, my mom would say, did you take your medication? Oh, wow. Yeah. Or she would like, have a tone with me or be kind of cold with me, would make me sad. And instead of looking at how she was behaving, it was Vasavi. Did you take your meds today? Did you take your meds today? And they never went to any support groups, they never read any books. But I, I would say that being diagnosed with a so called mental illness was the greatest gift that could have ever happened to me. Because me being the Curious George, Georgette that I am, I went to Barnes and Noble probably that weekend and I got every single book on bipolar disorder that I probably could. So I could really understand my mind. Because you. I understand.

Yeah, I love that. And I, and I certainly don't. I don't have bipolar, but I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid. And I can relate to that when someone says, did you take your medication? And it used to trigger the heck out of me because I was like, that's not. And I'm not, I'm not on any medication for ADHD now. I've learned to manage it without it, but when I was taking it, that would drive me crazy because it was like, what? Like, it felt like this wound that was just kept getting opened back up.

Well, you're not looking at me as a human. You're looking at me as a sick person that needs pills. I do want to say one thing to your audience, to share one thing. So what I. What I really wanted to get across everyone listening is like, if your child has an issue, has a mental health issue, that the most important thing that you can do yourself is to seek support yourself and learn.

I love that.

Yeah, learn how to talk to your child. Deal with your own feelings of guilt and shame. Because my mom would come to me crying to me about how she feels so bad, and I'm like, what the hell do you want me to do with your emotions? Like, I'm going through my own shit. So once again, I'm emotionally responsible for you when I got to get my mental health straight. So get the support. And I will say, Natalie, congratulations on being on medication. I've been off medication now since November. Yeah.

That's amazing. That's amazing.

I can feel everything, and it feels great.

When did you start to realize that you had a problem with drugs and alcohol? When was round one. And during this time, were you. You becoming this therapist on your own during that time?

Yeah. So I became a therapist when I was 28. So I went to Columbia University, got my master's in social work. I also have my master's in special ed that I got prior to that. Didn't really feel like I had a problem with drugs and alcohol because I was busy getting my master's right. I was busy doing great in school and internships, and I lived in India for a year. I got married when I was 28 to a nice Indian man. We had a big fat Indian wedding, three days.

Was it an arranged marriage? And I'm asking. I want to add. I'm curious about that, too.

No, it was not an arranged marriage. When I transferred home to Hofstra University, he owned the convenience store across the street from.

Oh, wow.

I asked him out on a date.

Oh, okay.

It was very. I'd always pick men in the oddest of places, and I always felt the need to pursue them, which I no longer do. But, yeah, we got married. I did not yet feel that I had a problem with drugs and alcohol. My issue with drugs and alcohol, I'm going to fast forward for the sake of time, was after I got divorced. So I got married when I was 28, and I got divorced when I was 32, like, right before I turned 32. And I immediately fell into a rebound relationship because I probably took some stupid person's advice that said the best way to get over someone is to get under someone. And I did that. And I got into this relationship with a man much younger than me, who was fresh out of rehab, mind you. I am now a therapist. I'm a coach. I've been running my business now for four years, four and a half, five years now, because I started my business in 2010. And I was just focused, right? Like I was ready to get divorced. I wanted to cultivate that relationship with myself. I wanted to set my husband free. He's now newly married. I'm so happy for him. We still, you know, we don't talk talk, but, you know, we're civil. I wanted to let him. Let him go. I wanted to start my own life In a. So funny when just when you say you're about to do something, the universe, God will put a distraction right in front of you. And I, and I took it, I took the bait and I got distracted. Met a man who was. Just Met a boy, he was like 24 at the time. I was 32. And we, we started kind of going out and hooking up and so out of my nature. So outside of like me and the things that I would do, but there was this part of me, you know, no one, no one trains you how to be divorced, right. You could read all the books in the world, but no one, no one can guide you to like not feeling like a complete failure. Right. And dealing with like you may say you want to be alone, but then when you're actually alone, it's a dark place.

Yeah.

Place to be. And so I met this guy, he immediately kind of filled this role of my ex husband. And I moved him in with me a few months later. And it was very non Indian of me, right. Like Indian women, we get married, then we move in with it. Like there's an order to everything. So to my family, I was just. They lost me at that point. Point they lost me and I busy working on my business. I'm doing great, my business. Bringing in for me what I thought was great for a Single gal, right. Eight to 10,000amonth. And I remember he, the guy that I was dating said to me like, you know, you deserve to celebrate. And I was like, what do you have in mind? And he was like, let's get some blow. And I said okay.

Because he had just been, he had just been fresh out of rehab.

Yeah. So we were perfect for each other. I was lonely and codependent and I wanted to have male partnership. And he was 24 and living at his parents house and his parents had just kicked him out. So you better believe he's going to do whatever he needs to do to find a place. And I wanted to do whatever I had to do to keep somebody in my life. So it was very classic codependent, very toxic. And so I said yeah. I said yeah, like whatever, no big deal. Like I can party here and there. I partied a little bit in college and this is how everyone starts off, right? You think it's just fun, like it's a Friday night, we're going to go out, have a few drinks, get a, you know, get a bag of blow, whatever. And what became a Friday night fun, you know, party favor was Friday, Saturday, Sunday, took a break on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Right, that's. I don't need to go into the details because the thing is like, this is how any addiction starts. You start off thinking you have control.

What is the feeling for someone who's not done drugs or that's not had a problem with addiction? What is the feeling that drugs allowed for you? What did it create for you that makes people want to come back for more?

Well, specifically with cocaine, I felt very focused. It worked like an Adderall for me. It definitely worked like an ADHD medication. I never really went out too much when I was doing drugs. As my addiction got worse, I stayed at home and partied. And that's when you know it's bad, right? It's no longer recreational. You're doing it by yourself. But the feeling for me, Natalie, is I felt like, okay, I don't have to. I don't have to feel anything. I could just escape everything else. I can shut my mind down and I can just create. I use drugs a lot to create a lot of stuff.

It's interesting what you just said there. I want to peel that back a minute because I hear that same thing a lot. I didn't need to feel anything. And I also hear about creating. But I under. I am. I'm just gathering just from the amount of people I've talked to with addictions and that have used. It's the not having to feel that's the key. That's the thing that. Because if we don't learn to express our emotions, if we don't know how to, we don't believe our emotions matter. We don't. Then being able to escape and not feel. I'm guessing that that's where a lot of this comes from.

Yeah, I mean, think about it. Here I am on the outside, on paper, looking great. You know, I've been on television multiple times. You know, I've done live, you know, live television, reality television. I have clients paying me out the ass to work with me. I drive a fancy BMW. I'm in a nice house, everything is great on the outside, yet when I'm all by myself, I feel worthless. And I just. I just. There is a God sized hole inside of me that no matter how much I did, how much I earned, how much everyone else praised me, was never enough. I was an empty shell. I mean, 1,000% empty shell. Interesting. So the drugs just kind of took away that feeling. You know, when you drink, you know, I don't have to think so much when I'm drinking. I give myself Permission to cry when I'm drinking. Right. I have to be the strong one for everyone else. So when I drink that, you know, three bottles of gas station boxed wine and few bags of cocaine, I'm no longer Vasavi, who has to be all things to everyone and save and help everybody else. I get to just be numb and feel and have my own little party for myself. And it's very. I will say this, and I want everyone to hear this, as someone. I have owned this. When you are in an addiction, it's a very selfish disease. And I say that as someone who owns the fact that in her addiction, the only thing I cared about was, when am I gonna get high? When am I going to get to party? When am I gonna be able to run away from everybody else? My phone would be off. When I was drunk and getting messed up. I didn't want to have anything to do with anyone else. I wanted to. It's so funny. I wanted to disconnect from everybody else. And I used addiction to connect with myself. But as I said to you earlier, even before we got on, the opposite of addiction is connection, right? So I thought, I gotta disconnect from the world. I don't want to be bothered. I just want to be by myself. Do my lines of cocaine be with my shitty and party with him, thinking that we're connected, him and I. Right. That's how we bonded. But ultimately, it's just one big disconnection. And I used drugs and alcohol to connect with myself.

Wow. It's powerful. Okay, so how did you get out of this addiction? How did you escape it? And then you had a setback with it? So I want. I'm curious how that happened.

Yeah, so I went to rehab for the.

What brought you to rehab? First of all, how did that happen?

What brought me to rehab? So I went to rehab. October 2017. I think the thing that definitely was the turning point in September. I got pregnant. September of 2017, because we were having. My ex and I, we were having a lot of unprotected sex. And you have a lot of sex when you're on cocaine. And I got pregnant and I scheduled an abortion. And it's the day before the abortion was scheduled. I was doing an interview, just like this video interview. And during the interview, I got. Had a miscarriage. So here I am talking to you on video, and I know people can't see that. And all of a sudden I feel myself having. I know it's not my period, right? And I'm like, oh, shit. So I had a miscarriage. It was. And I had the miscarriage. And that evening when I had my miscarriage, I ended up doing a lot of drugs to deal with how shitty I felt that I know that I caused that miscarriage. Because what baby, What. Anything can last in you in the early stages when you're getting drunk and using drugs? Like, I assumed a lot of responsibility for that. I definitely did. And I punished myself by. And I didn't want to feel that feeling because I pride myself on being someone who's very responsible. And I knew I did that. You know, I knew I did that. So that's what really triggered it. So. Got really messed up that night. And in my stupor, I called my dad up the next day, and I was just like, I had a miscarriage. I told my family everything. And they didn't say anything yet. They were just like, okay. And I'm like, I'm fine. I'm okay. Like, just, you know, no one, you know, my family's on the East Coast. I'm in Austin, right? So there's that physical distance. But eventually, so just literally less than a month later, still using drugs, obviously, six days a week. Money was running low. It happens when you're somebody's sugar mama and you have a pretty big drug habit. And it was like 4am in the morning. I was extremely high, and I heard this voice in my head, which I want to believe was the voice of God. And I heard this voice that said, call your sister. Text your sister. That's what it said. Text your sister. So I texted her around 4am My time, Central time. And I said to her, I need you to come here. That's all I wrote to her. And so two days later, her and my aunt, my favorite aunt in the world, they came to Austin and helped me pack up and flew me back to Philly.

You know what's so crazy? You're of every interview I've done on addiction, every single one, not one person has not said what you just said, that they had a voice in their head, something came and spoke to them. Whether they said it was God or spirit or their higher self or a voice in their head, every single person has said that. Like, in their rock bottom moment, that's what they heard.

I think I have tears in my eyes. And I think the thing that I think why it brings about so much emotion is because, you know, Natalie, I would say, like, my rock bottom wasn't when I had to go to rehab. My rock bottom was literally maybe a few weeks Before I remember, I was by myself in my apartment. I had my boxed gas station wine, Franzia. I still remember the stupid brand. And I'm. I took a big old. I snorted a big old line of cocaine. And I remember saying out loud, well, I guess this is just going to be my life forever. I remember saying, wow. And I was hoping to hear that voice of God or my higher power. That was like, no, Vasavi, you're going to get through this. But I heard nothing.

And maybe you hadn't asked then, though.

Maybe I had.

Yeah, sounds like you had asked when you had the noise, the voice to call your sister.

I didn't have that voice, but that was. That was the scariest moment for me because it's like usually when I called out to God, I always heard something back. But in that moment, I didn't hear anything. So you better believe when I heard that voice that said, text your sister, I listened and my sister came because that's my sister.

Wow.

Yeah. So checked into rehab, 2017. Wow.

And when you went to rehab, they took you through 12 step?

Yeah, I mean, we had meetings every single day, groups every single day, one on one, counseling, had a sponsor work through all the steps. Like, admitting that I was powerless was really the hardest thing for me because I'm someone that likes to keep it all together. Right. I'm vasavi kumar of vasavikumar.com I've been on VH1, look at me, blah, and just need to admit that I'm powerless. That was very humbling.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

So what was the setback after that? Because that's. That what happened and what got you there is miraculous. Right. And then you have this awareness that you were powerless. You go through the program. Why did that not stick? What made you go backwards? Again with that?

This is a great question. And I think everyone needs to write notes for themselves.

Okay.

It's that oftentimes when we get healthy and we get better, we want to go back to the people that were sick and try to save them along with us. But actually, yes, we should just be focused on our damn selves. Wow.

Say that again for the people in the back, because that's huge.

Oftentimes when we get healthy and we start to work on ourselves and get better, we want to go back to the people who were sick and got us. You know, the people that we surround ourselves with and drag them along with us.

We want to save them, too.

We want to save them too. And so you better believe that every Single day that I was in rehab while I was on the East Coast, I spoke to my ex every single day. I must have spent a lot of quarters because we could only use payphones. I called him every day, kept in touch with them every day. So even though I was getting help, my mind was still back in Austin. I didn't want to lose him. So when I came back to Austin after rehab, residential rehab, I stayed in sober living, and him and I got back together. Him and I got back together. He was using drugs. He was smoking weed or whatever. I don't know. But I was seven months sober. So May of 2018, I was seven months sober. He broke up with me on May 13. I remember the dates so clearly. May 13, 2018, he broke up with me. It was also the day that I went skydiving for my birthday. My birthday's on the 18th, though. He broke up with me, so what goes up must come down. And he broke up with me. And I said to myself, it's going to get better. It will be fine. He'll come back around. It didn't. And I couldn't hold on any longer. I was white knuckle, gripping it, and I'd essentially made him my God. You know, that's the problem, is we place people, places and things above our higher power. And I relapsed. May. May 30. May 30, 2018.

Did you know when you were relapsing that you were relapsing? Or did you. What goes through your mind? Was it that I can. I can. I've got it together. I can just do this this one time. Or did you know you're blowing it?

Or what was.

Was a conversation you were having with yourself around it?

That's such a. Oh, my God. I remember the day that I relapsed. I literally ignored any sort of voice of reason. And all I knew was, this hurts. I hadn't eaten. I lost, like, about 25 pounds. I just knew this hurt so much. So I called up one of my friends and I said to him, we got a party tonight. He's like, are you sure? I was like, yeah, don't argue with me. I'm buying. I said, I'm buying. I'm getting everything. And Natalie, I will never forget, we dump out the cocaine in front of me. There's like a little bit of a battle in my head. I'm like, should I. Should I not? And it was just whoosh. Like, holy moly. Yeah, just. That's it. Just.

Gosh, so if you're listening right now and you are sober, the lesson that I'm hearing is you do not talk with your non sober friends anymore. Period. End of story. You can't.

And stop. And please. And if there's a number one thing that I can say is that this is going to sound heartless, please avoid. You do not need to experiment and bring back the people, places and things in your life that got you here in the first place. No. If they are not working on themselves, they do not have a relationship with God or themselves or a higher power. They are not in any shape or form equipped to be in your circle. Your access to your energy is a privilege. So you got it. Like, do not be one of those people. And I do not mean to sound preachy, but I have to say this because I know that I'm sober by the grace of God, and my job is to help other people not make the same mistakes as me. But. But by you inviting those people back into your life, you're literally one step away from relapsing, especially if you're feeling vulnerable. Right? Could I hang out with somebody now, a year and almost four months in, who drinks? Yes. Could I? Yes. Do I? No, I don't. Because I have chosen. I do not want to associate with people who feel the need to alter the state of their mind. Right. You want to go get drunk on your turn, go for it. But when you're with me, you get 100% bossavi. I deserve the same amazing.

Preach it. That's so powerful right there. And I hope that people are listening because this is just too big of a pattern that I've heard. And when people, everyone I've heard has relapsed, it's that same story. Because they went back to old places, old people, things that reminded them of what it was during then. And it's just too much of it. It's too easy to get sucked back in.

It's too easy. It's too tempting. And for you to, like, why experiment, right? So I say play the tape out. You already know what's going to happen. And here's the thing. If you've been working your program, if you feel great emotionally, mentally, spiritually, first of all, you're not gonna have a reason to go back to old people, places and things. Because if you're feeling that good about yourself, the only time you actually feel the need to go back to the old is when you feel like shit. And that is a huge light bulb. Like, if you feel tempted to, like Let me reach out to that ex. Let me reach out with that girlfriend of mine or that guy, friend that, you know, I know they can score some of this. You're not feeling good because if you're feeling great, you're taking care of yourself on all levels. Why would you ever need to go back to them?

You know what's so interesting, as I'm listening to you, this really actually applies not just to addiction as to everything. I mean, I think about just in. And I know it's a whole different subject, but I think about people with weight loss, like helping how I've helped people with obesity. You know, they have to change their habits, change their friends, change their thoughts, change their actions. The second they start hanging around the people that got them overweight in the first place, they start getting back into that habit. Same with money. I see it all the time. You're the sum of who you hang around. If you're always broke and all your friends are broke, and now you find a way to actually create income and do all this stuff, as soon as you go back to the friends that don't have money, you get sucked back into that. It's like, I see this with everything.

I always say to people. Listen, when you hear my story, don't get so caught up with the details. Look at the bigger picture and what it really boils down to is, do you do what's going to make you feel good? Anybody else that's a distraction and who is not on your same level of thinking, you do not need them in your life. I'm not asking you to be jerky. I'm not asking you to be mean. You don't have to be like, I hate you. But it's just, you have to be able to distinguish where you are, where you're going. And do these external forces, people, places and things, do they actually add value to your life? That's a very hard pill to swallow and very hard for people like me. Like other addicts and alcoholics that I know who were raised to be emotionally responsible empaths, highly sensitive. We feel bad. We feel like we're assholes. You know how I mean, I have felt so guilty and mean for having to have boundaries, but I realized having boundaries is not just a cool, catchy phrase. Natalie, for people like me and for human beings in general, boundaries is life or death.

Yes, I'm 100% with you. I love this. Okay, so you get completely sober a second time a little over a year ago.

Why?

What was different the second time around? And what are your non negotiables now?

That's a great question. I think the reason why it stuck this time is because I chose to go to rehab. I chose. Rather than my family, my mom blowing me up on FaceTime, crying to me, I was like, screw all of this. The second time that I went, I chose. I ended up having to go back to rehab. I had a fancy schmancy television job as a morning show co host in Austin. I had gotten let go six months later, and I felt crappy because that blingy job that I thought was gonna make me feel good and get sober didn't and was no longer. So I went back to drugs and alcohol for about 10 days, got back with my ex, like that ex. And my mom knew because I called her at 4am and she's like, why the hell are you up? And she called me up, it was on March 26. And she said to me, you're. I'm like, by the way, I just want, you know, I'm like 37 at that point, right? Then she goes, you need to pee in a cup for me. And I was like, how could you say that to me? I am 37 years old. How could you? Like, I'm so embarrassed. So, like, you know what? Anytime you get that defensive, obviously you're covering totally. I was so tired at that point, Natalie. I was like, first of all, I was hungover as shit. And I was like, no way. I'm sick of lying to my mother. I've been lying for.

Moms always know. They just know.

My mother always know. I have very close relationship with her now. And I'd been lying my whole life, right? I was tired. 37. That was it. I was lying. I was. I was done. I was tired. So I said, you know what? I told my mother, I'm not gonna pee in a cup, but this is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna check myself into rehab. She said, okay. She just knew. She just knew. Like, I'm not going to humiliate my daughter. Went back to the same rehab, went to detox the next day. So March 26th is my sober date. March 27th, I went into detox, and then from there I was in residential for about two weeks. So this is what's really funny. First time I went through this whole rehab process, I was like six months total between residential rehab and outpatient and sober living. Six months. This time around, I went to residential for probably no more than two and a half weeks. And I came back to my house. And I said, I want to be sober, but I want to do it in my own house. I want to live life. I don't want to be under, you know, with 15 other sober women. I want to, like, I want to own this. Like, I want to do this. So my mom said she. She supported me, and ever since then, I'm here living in my house.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Do you. How do you know this time it's for real? Like, it's good. What's different?

Yeah. I will say I've gone through a lot in the past year and a half. I've gone through another breakup. I was also engaged, which I never seem to mention that on interviews. I was engaged. And I was like, I wasn't. I was engaged. After this ex, I was with somebody else. We ended our relationship. I think the thing that I had to go through, the hardest thing that I went through without having to use drugs and alcohol. I was financially dependent on my mother for about six months. In my recovery, we made a deal. I said, let me get to a year. I don't want the pressure right now of working and having to promote myself and market myself when I'm literally trying to get myself right up front that I know not everyone has parents that can help them, and I'm very grateful that I've had parents who were able to help me. So I'm aware of that, that I'm. I'm very lucky and I'm very blessed. But that's a deal that I made with my mother. I said, can you just take care of me for six months? Can you take care of my bills for six months? And I lived very below my knees. Like, didn't have an extravagant life, but I used those six months, the entire year, to really deal with myself. I started creating habits, creating routines. And I didn't have drugs. I didn't have alcohol. I didn't have a man. I literally had to be with. My Friday night, I'm at home, and I'm, like, feeling like a loser, and I'm having to deal with those thoughts in my head. But I didn't have my ex to reach out to. I didn't have some snuggle buddy. I didn't have drugs, alcohol. I didn't even have money in the bank. My mom was sending me Google pay payments. Right. So here I am, literally stripped of everything that once made me a somebody. And I felt like a nobody. And I got through that.

But you had to feel it. It sounds like you had to go through the Feelings. And that's the key.

I had to go through feeling of feeling like a nobody. And then that forced me to have to reach to something bigger than me, which is my relationship to God.

Wow, that's amazing. Okay, couple final questions for you because these are in. Because I could talk to you all day, but I want to get wrap up here. So what give me, what are you committed to now and what is your non negotiable?

That's a great question. I'm committed to surrendering to God each and every day. I'm committed to being rigorously honest with myself, with every single person and myself. And I laugh because it's like that is a practice, even when it hurts to be honest, like about everything. That's why I say rigorously honest. I'm committed to rigorous honesty. I'm committed to my relationship to God. I'm committed to being extremely kind to myself because I hated myself and I pitied myself. I could live in self hatred and self pity. I can. I'm good there. I'm comfortable there. So what I've had to do is really be committed to being kind to myself.

What is your non negotiables now?

I will not date a man who drinks, uses drugs. I will not. And I'm saying this is the first time I've ever said that out loud. I've had to get clear. I am. My non negotiable is saying yes when I really want to be saying no. My non negotiable is I will not do anything until I check in with myself and give myself time. Why do I have to. Why does everything have to be a yes right away? And my non negotiable is to trust myself and the process and the plan that God has laid out for me first and foremost. Thank you. I mean, it's just coming out of me. I mean, just to really trust that God has a plan. And you know, every time we make plans, God laughs. So I have to deepen that trust. My non negotiable is that I will only first and foremost trust God and his plan for me. Everything else is secondary.

What do you want listeners to know right now? What do you want them to know about themselves, about life, about what do you need them to know?

I want your audience and your listeners to know, no matter what they're going through, whatever your dreams are, whatever the issues that you're going through, whatever breakups and heartaches that you're struggling with, whatever it is that you want to do. I want to promise you this one Thing like guarantee. When you take the time to become your own best friend, when you take the time to get to know yourself, when you take the time to listen to the voices in your head, when you take the time to do little things that you've been putting off, whether it's routines, habits, whatever it is, all the things that you've been saying that you need to be doing, but that voice inside of you says, eh, it doesn't matter. Does it really make a difference when you actually start to listen to yourself? Because you already know the answer. Nothing I'm saying here is some brand new shit. When you listen to yourself and you know yourself, you can be, do and have anything that you want.

Oh, so powerful, so good. Okay. Where can people find you? I know people are going to want to learn more. Where do they find you? Where do they work with you? How do they learn more?

My website is vasavikumar.com I'm very active on Instagram and my name is actually my handle is. My name is Vasavi.

I love it.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah.

Thank you so much, Vasavi.

Thank you.

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