228: Candid Conversation about Stress, Hypnotherapy and Today’s World Events with Kiné Corder

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned lifestyle and high performance coach. When odds are stacked against us, how do we shift and create everything from nothing? How do we level up when we aren't feeling it yet or have had a big setback? And how do we adjust quickly when life throws us major curveballs? On this podcast, I do what I do best, taking complicated information that is relevant to us now and breaking it down simply with actionable steps you can implement to level up your own life. I also regularly interview some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on the planet who at their worst, learn how to achieve success greater than they ever dreamed possible. Leveling up, Creating Everything from Nothing if you are new here, I encourage you to go back and listen from episode one for the full transformative experience. Kanae Corridor is a national Certified Counselor, international speaker and the world's number one clinical hypnotherapist specializing in financial therapy and stress management. Kanae created a financial therapy program that combines hypnosis, talk therapy and money counseling. She created it because studies have shown that money is the number one cause of stress whether you have it or not, and we know stress is the cause of many major illnesses now. As a former Morgan Stanley financial advisor, Kanay realized that high income earners needed help with more than just the stock picks and financial planning resistance was getting in the way of them executing on their financial plans. In 2014, she made the shift to therapy as she discovered that the resistance that keeps her clients from executing on their financial plans was the same exact resistance that therapists, doctors and wellness professionals experience when creating treatment plans for patients. In 2017, after seeing the breakthroughs she was having with her patients, she started sharing her techniques with other professionals. She discovered the best way to heal the world of stress and illness was to break through patients resistance. But she realized she couldn't do it herself. That's why she created the Prosperity Club, a private club for health and wellness professionals who want to make a difference and make money. In this private club, she teaches her proven techniques through weekly live training discussion Forums Join in today as Kanay and I discuss trauma and hypnotherapy as well as an open, candid discussion about the challenges of being a successful Black woman. Today. Today I'm so excited to chat with my new friend Kanae Corder, who I met recently at a really fun girls retreat. And I was just so taken back by her energy and her shares and her stories and she really got me thinking and I thought I've got to dive in and know her story because she's a clinical hypnotherapist, so who helps with financial therapy and stress and who doesn't need help with those two things. Right. Those are amazing. So can I thank you so much for being here today?

Thank you for having me. I'm excited for us to talk to you, really, because we didn't. I don't feel like we got enough time. Four days was just not enough.

It wasn't enough. But when you. When I first met you, like, you were so thought provoking to me. Like, everything that came out of your mouth, I'm like, I've got to know more about this woman and where she comes from. Because you. Everything you said was just so thought provoking. So I'm so excited. I just can't wait to chat with you more today.

Thank you. Thank you. And I'm going to touch on that point that you talked about that thought provoking, because that's part of my story too. Oh, I love that.

I love that. Okay, so can you take us back? Like, first of all, how does somebody even become a hypnotherapist? Did you want to be that growing up? Like, where does that even come from, really?

It's so funny because never. Hypnotherapy never even crossed my mind. And I wrote a book in 2012 and it's called the Art of Starting Over.

Okay.

And a couple of my friends who were therapists got their hands on the book and then they passed it on to other therapists. And so a lot of these therapists just kept asking me, are you a therapist? Like, this book is an intervention. And I'm like, what's an intervention? Right. I don't know anything about being a therapist. I was a life coach at the time. So people just kept asking me, are you a therapist? Are you a therapist? And I'm like, no. But you don't get asked that question unless you are supposed to be right? That thing that people are asking. So I finally decided to go back to school, get my. My master's in clinical mental health counseling. And trauma was the thing that I hated. I was like, I don't want to do trauma. It's going to be sad and depressing, and I'm going to make it my very last class. So I made trauma my very last class. I take this trauma class, and my trauma professor is a hypnotherapist. Oh. So she chose me as the fake client or patient for the day. And I you. Because I was a life coach. I used One of my clients to. Because I knew that story fluently, and it was traumatic, and I used it as my fake story. And so she does hypnotherapy on me using my client's fake story. That's not even mine. And I felt different.

Did she know that this was your client's story, or did she think it was your story? Okay, so you were a transparent there.

Yeah. She didn't make up a story she didn't want to. She didn't want to expose because this was in front of the class. So she said, make up a story. I'm just. I'm just demonstrating what hypnotherapy would be like for you guys. And so even through the demonstration, I still felt like something in me healed. And at the end of that class, I was like, I have to become a hypnotherapist. Like, I don't even want to do therapy without that secret weapon. Wow.

Wow. Do you feel?

Sure enough. That's exactly what happened when I used it myself.

Do you feel everybody has trauma?

Yes. Yeah. Even if it's traumatic and not trauma. But I really, truly believe everybody has trauma. If you're triggered, if you've ever been triggered in your life, it means you have trauma.

So I want to talk a little bit about that because I think people assume kind of like you did when you said, I don't want to take a trauma class, that trauma has to be this dramatic, depressing, awful story. But I find that, like, it doesn't matter how dramatic or awful, Something little can create that same thing. Is that what you find?

Yes, absolutely. I'll tell you my story of how I became a perfectionist and stressed myself out was that my mom, she really, really wanted this drink. And the whole she had been talking about it, oh, I want this drink. This particular drink. It was called Omar Juice. And we're going to go to the place where they sold Omar Juice. Well, we went at the end of the day, like, right before they closed, and I was the person designated to carry the drinks. So we get home, I get out the car with all of the drinks, and we have dogs at the time. And the dogs jump on me. And I drop all of the drinks, including the Omar jeans. And my mom turns and she sees it, and the dogs are licking the juice off of the ground. And she goes, oh, Kanae. And I'm like, I just broke my mom's heart.

So something. So, like, little. But you took it on as I.

Exactly. I've told my mom that story. Right. She does not remember it.

Oh wow.

Because it wasn't a big deal to her, but to my little 8 year old self it was a big damn deal. I had just ruined my mom's life. She had been talking about oh my.

Just falling. Yeah, that's so interesting. My husband always tells a story that if you were to like go to a body of water and throw a huge diamond in it, like a huge diamond or crystal in it, or you throw a huge dead body, either one makes a ripple. So one is worse than one is beautiful, one's terrible, but they both make this ripple. So he got me thinking about this whole idea of trauma that even if it's a story that we've created or that we've made into something, it still can affect us that same way.

Exactly. So even just hearing if somebody who didn't even know me said oh Kanae, it would kind of trigger like oh, what'd I do? Like oh no, they don't even know me. Like I didn't do anything right. Just those words. And then it just made me a perfectionist. At the same time, my grandfather had this statement that he would say like, you don't stress your mother out, you'll kill her. And he didn't mean it like that. But to an 8 year old again, at the time I think I was seven because now that I think about, I was seven because my mom was going through the divorce with my biological father. So my grandfather wanted us to just keep the stress down because going through divorce is stressful. Everybody knows this. Not seven year olds though. So as she's going through this divorce, my grandfather say, don't stress your mom out, you'll kill her. And I'm really thinking that if I do anything wrong, my mom is gonna die.

Yeah.

Because as adults we say things, our language is so important, we don't know how it lands. Totally the seven year old brain. And so that's what happened and I became a perfectionist. Like always pleasing mom, make sure she's okay. And my mom is the sweetest, so she doesn't even require a lot. So most of what I pressure I put on myself. I put on my own self. She didn't do it.

It's so interesting, you know. So when I was a kid around 8, I remember my mom specific, we had a neighbor who the father had died. And I remember my mom us all being upset about this father that had died. And I remember very clearly my mom saying to me, you know, there's nothing worse than a spouse dying. You can Always have more kids. But there's nothing worse than a spouse dying. And that like scarred me for years. Okay. I mean, obviously I'm like thinking that, what do you mean? You can always replace your kids. So I had a conversation with my mom a few years ago and she was like, I never said that. She's like, I never would have said that. And, and I could have sworn in my child brain that she said that. And I formed all these stories around it. And what she said to me, she's like, natalie, I never said that. And if I did say that, for some reason I don't believe that. And it like undid all this stuff, which was so interesting to me. How we do, we take these things as a kid and we hold on to them and make up stories about them and what they mean.

That is so true. And I could see both sides. Like, I could actually see if she did say that, like she said I could actually see that statement for somebody, you know, forsaking all others, like to death do you part. Like all of those things. I could see her if she did say that. But then as, as a seven, eight year old kid, I could see that being devastated.

Like, yeah, right, so place me.

Yeah.

So talk to me about hypnotizing. Hypnotizing, because I've, I've done that and I love it. It's helped me so much. But I think people are so scared of it. So can you talk about it, what the benefits of it and is there something for people to be scared of with that?

So I'll talk about the fear. I don't really know why people are scared because by the time they come to me, they are usually in so much pain. They just want the pain to go away and so the fear is not there. I rarely get resistance. That's just not something I deal with, which is why I teach the resistance breakthrough training that I teach. But the first thing I would say, when it comes to fear, usually it's the unknown people. Hypnotherapy is not that well known. And so, you know, they've, they've heard of cognitive behavioral therapy or you know, maybe existential therapy or any of the therapies that are out there. Even emdr, they may have had some idea of some other therapies, but hypnotherapy is unknown. So I'm afraid that's just the brain, the way the brain works. Okay. The second reason why they might be upset, I live in Vegas. Here in Vegas, we have a lot of stage shows that include Hypnotherapy. And they might have seen one of those shows looking like a chicken. And you don't look good under hypnosis.

Looking like a chicken. I have seen those shows years ago.

Yeah. And so people think that they're going to lose control of themselves and I'm gonna have some mastery over them now, which is not true. And then the third thing along with that mastery is that they will become something that they don't want to become. After hypnotherapy, instead of saying, oh, I'm going to be a much better person, or whatever, they're thinking, I'm going to be a worse person. I'm going to be sick or I'm going to be crazy or whatever it is. Because the unknown. First of all, the brain doesn't like the unknown. But when it's faced with the unknown, it sees the darkest possible ability. It's like, oh, it must be a monster in there kind of thing. You know what we do when we're seven years old? It's dark in that closet. I don't know. It must be a monster in there. And so that's what's happening when it comes to the fear. So put all of that away. Because a lot of times I'm usually referred after they've been through therapy two or three years or they've tried two or three therapists, and things are just not working. A lot of times I work with men, like between 60 and 80% of my patients in any given moment can be males, and specifically white males. And so when they come to me, they are about the business. Those are high achievers. They just want solutions, they want results. These are people who don't usually have fear anyway. So they're coming in, they're like, give me the answer. Let's get this done. Step by step, process. Tell me what to do. Thanks, doc. And I'm not even a doctor, but that's the way that they come to hypnotherapy. Hypnotherapy, the benefits. Hypnotherapy is similar to this. This is the way I like to describe it. You know how you have a program running on your phone and let's just say it's iOS 10, right? And it has some bugs in it. Sometimes it capitalizes things that should be capitalized. I'm messing with Apple right now.

Mind actually does that. I know. It drives me crazy. If I write, if I answer an email from a phone, it's like. It capitalizes. I'm like, why is it Doing that. It's a.

Doing it right? So. So that bug is like the. It's the equivalent of the trauma that's running underneath your brain. Because in your subconscious brain, once you have a traumatic experience, your brain is repeating that experience over and over and over again. One reason your brain repeats that experience is because that's the way it stays safe to remember that experience. But the second reason is because it says, well, maybe if I keep playing it, at some point I can actually resolve it, heal it, instead of doing the same thing I did last time. However, the brain doesn't know how to do a new thing. It knows only to do the same thing. So it's a real quandary for the brain, which is why you need somebody like me to come in and just, like, change that program. So you have that program running, and then I come in. Hypnotherapy is like downloading a new program. Once you download the new program, the old program doesn't work anymore. All of a sudden, it's not capitalizing things that used to capitalize. Now the words are right. And it's like, ah. That's the way that the brain works. You have an event that happens. When you talk to me about that event, I go through hypnosis, which. Another thing I want to mention is that everybody can be hypnotized, but at different levels. So some people are going to be more affected by hypnosis than others. And the reason why is because everybody is in hypnosis at some point. You know that space between awake and sleep? You know how you're getting really sleepy? You can kind of still hear what's happening around you, but you are not going to take the energy to wake yourself up and answer. You're like, totally, I'm going to sleep. That is hypnosis. That space right there is hypnosis.

So can I take. I've done hypnotherapy, but I've also done EMDR and meditation. And so I would love to get your perspective on, like, the differences with all that, because for me, personally, I kind of felt the same and all. I feel the same in all three.

Yeah, meditation is very close to hypnosis. Why? Because you're going into theta brain, and that's where I'm taking you. In hypnosis, the difference between meditation and hypnotherapy is that I am suggesting things in meditation. Those suggestions are not there. So I am removing. I'm saying, okay, let's delete this old program. I'm deleting the old program, and then I'm replacing that with a new program. And so. But you're going to tell me what that program is. So in hypnosis, every, especially when I'm dealing with trauma, I'm going to ask you what happened. You'll say, oh, my mom said it, you know, if she could always replace her kid. Right. And so what would you like your mom to have said? I would like my mom to have said nothing could replace my kids. And so I replay that and I have you replay that statement the way you wanted it to be. And the brain doesn't know the difference between what's imagined and what's real. So now the brain just codes that new memory. It's memory reconsolidation. So it just reconciles that memory gives you the feeling that you wanted to have in that moment. I feel taken care of. I feel loved, whatever it was. And then you have it now. And then you can move about your life.

Oh my gosh, it totally worked. I've done it. There was two very specific topics that I worked with the hypno hypnotist on and it was incredible. For me, it was like instant. One with financial. And then to my story about constantly chasing and work, like constantly having to do an X and X and X. I was so scared of working with her on that, but it was like instant. And it was amazing. Like, it doesn't take. It didn't take away my ambition. It took away the need to chase for approval, if that makes sense. So I had amazing experiences with hypnosis.

And most people who have hypnosis. I don't know anybody who's had hypnosis. It was like, oh my God, don't do hypnosis. People love it. And mainly because of what you just said, it is instant. It's like you take the blue pill or whichever pill is the right pill. I can't remember. You know, it's like that because it is so non invasive, first of all, because you didn't have to relive trauma in order to heal and you didn't have to do it for a year or two, which is traumatic in and of itself. And talk therapy has its place. I do about 15, 20 minutes of talk therapy in every hypnotherapy session. But most of the time I'm going to send you into hypnosis in order for us to heal that rather than you having to tell me it. Let's just work it out in hypnosis.

Talk to you about emdr. I did that. And it felt similar, but I would say hypnosis was more effective for me. And I'm just curious your perspective on that.

I see. So EMDR is similar to hypnosis, especially if you're talking about brain based hypnotherapy, because the brain is what you're getting to when you do emdr. We're looking at the eyes and where the eyes and the brain connect that particular memory and they're using that to reconcile that memory. However it is hit or miss because it takes some time for the practitioner to get you there. But in hypnosis we can get you there faster because of the way we're dropping you down into your subconscious brain and we're asking your brain, where do you need to go? Really? That's all I do. I say that, you know, the days go back, the weeks roll back, the months roll back, you're younger, tell me where you are. And then they say, I'm six years old right now. If they say I'm. If the person is 40 and then they let the days go back and they tell me they're 22, I know I still have some trust that I need to build with them. The brain is not trusting me just yet because nothing happened to them at 22 that didn't happen to them already. Wow. If it happened at 22, it happened between 0 and 7 because everything else is just a replay. And so what I'm doing then is to get them, the brain, to trust me. Or if every memory they go back to is like a happy memory, then I know the brain doesn't trust me yet. So I'm just getting, building that trust, allowing that trust to build, allowing that trust build.

So the one thing that did freak me out a little bit when I did hypnosis, I don't know if you, is I went to a past life and I didn't have beliefs around that before. So when that happened, it definitely, it just kind of, it was just different for me. And I was. And then I went and got in my head like, is this imagination? It was that real? Is that like I didn't know what I believed around that.

Yeah. And yes. And so I tell people that too. I don't do a lot of past life regression. Most of what I do is brain based between 0 and 7. And so even if somebody is saying I'm in my mother's womb, they may or may that might not be true, but to them it is. And so even if, when I worked in the psychiatric hospital, if somebody told me they Were Jesus. I'm like, oh my gosh, so freaking nice to meet you. Like, I have never.

You played with it. You played with it because that's where.

They were with it. Yeah, exactly. Because nothing, no good comes from me telling them they're not totally. It's just more resistance. And I don't have time for resistance. So I came here to heal. We came here to heal. We did not come here to prove whether you're Jesus or not.

I love that because I got in my own head around it. Like, am I crazy? You know, that's what you. I started doing. So you're right. If she had said to me, you're crazy, that would have thrown the whole thing.

Well, that's cool.

So, okay, one more question about this and I kind of have a next. I want to shift over to something else. But how did you get into the financial therapy and stress for hip? Why did you decide to specialize sort of there?

So before I became a therapist, where I came from before 2012, I, when I wrote the book the Art of Starting Over, I was a financial advisor at the time with Morgan Stanley. And I was with Morgan Stanley for a quarter, quite a few years. And while I was with Morgan Stanley, what I found was that people needed help with more than stock picks and money management. They needed help with the trauma or the story that they had been telling themselves around the money. Because I would do financial planning. I was a financial planning specialist and I would do a financial plan and then people would tell me the story, what they want to accomplish. I'm like, yes, I'm all in. I created a financial plan. It's beautiful. Step by step, nothing you can't do. I'm doing it with you. I'm guiding you all the way through here. Somehow they swerve off the path. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. But you said this was your dream. Yeah, that is my dream. But I want to buy this house over here. Why? Because you're not going to get to your dream. They're like, but it's close to my daughter's college. I'm like, your daughter's not going to only going to be there four years. This is a 30 year mortgage. What are you talking about? You know, and so just like things like that would happen. And I'm like, what just happened? And I knew there was more than just, you know, the numbers that they were attached to. And so there was something else because really what they didn't put in that financial plan is that I have a fear Fear wasn't in the financial plan. The financial plan was. These are my dreams. This is what I would love to happen. None of my fears were in there. And so because their fears weren't in there, I felt like I needed something to help them get over their fears. Because every time that fear triggered them, they were going to do something to circumvent this plan and end up somewhere that they don't want to be. And then they gonna blame me.

Yeah, that makes sense.

So, okay, as a financial advisor seeing all of this, sometimes couples would sit in my office and argue over things. They had what I would call different ideas of prosperity. And so those two different ideas of prosperity, not one wrong, one right, just different. And so because of that, they never discussed that in the beginning. So now they're trying to figure out what to do with the money. And one person says, oh, well, we're gonna live in Mexico. And you know, in the next five years, another person like, I'm never leaving my job. What are you talking about? I'm. I'm working in my job. So I'm 70 years old. And they're like, what? And so because they never had that conversation, now they're arguing in my office and I can't help them get through their financial plan. So that was the second part of it. And I was like, this is. I'm doing more harm than good in here. I got these couples arguing, you know, and so I started studying, like, what is this? And then behavioral finance and financial therapy. And then that's when I wrote the book. And then people were like, are you a therapist? So. So it was this. It was this progression. It wasn't like I woke up one morning, which I am very capable of waking up and deciding to do something different. But it wasn't like I woke up one morning and I was like, I'm going to become a therapist. It was like a progression of things happen, One thing building on the other, and then just saying, well, it sounds.

Like you're a problem solver. So, like, you're not. They're coming to you for money. And you're like, wait, let me. I can help bigger.

So.

And I think a true problem solver. That makes sense. You would dig, like, get to the root of it. Like, let's get to the root of this.

Exactly. Yep. Yes, exactly.

Which brings me to my next topic with you. Because this is. This is perfect. This falls right into problem solving. So when I met. Can I. We were at a. It was a girl. A really fun girls weekend. We had like, 35 successful women all in a room. And one of the topics that came up, because it is 2020 right now, as we're recording this, and this is the year of everything coming to surface, it seems like what this is. And I'm going to tell it from my experience, Kenne. And then I want to kind of. We'll start there, and then you can tell me your side of this, because I had so many breakthroughs around this. So we're sitting In a room, 30, 35 women, predominantly white. Predominantly white women, who started discussing the idea of how do we be more inclusive, how do we support black communities? This is how the topic started. It started out of this good intention. How do we support more blacks? That's how it started. And I watched one white woman after the next throughout their brilliant, they thought idea, like, well, we can serve underprivileged, and we can do this and we can do that. And I look over and Kanae is, like, bouncing in her seat like that.

Hey, like. Like, let me.

Like when you have to go to the bathroom in school and you're like. She's like, I want to get my word in. So everyone's talking and she finally, she. She goes, and what you said blew my mind. And it was. It was such a big perspective shift for me. And what I heard you say was that basically we're tired of everybody saying, let's help the poor black person, let's help the underprivileged, because we're helping them. There's a bigger gap with this bridge. There's a lot of us that are educated, that had a good family life, that are strong, and we are getting left out because we always need this leg up. The breakthrough I had around that, when you said that, was that one, we're focused on the wrong problem. And two, I, for the first time, recognize what you're saying. Because being a female who was in Corporate America for 20 years, I knew what it was like to have to get a leg up from a white male. Like, I had to latch onto the white male in corporate to get ahead. And when you said that to me, I got it. I'm like, the way I had to latch onto a white male is the way a lot of these strong black females feel they have to latch onto a white female. And I got it for the first time. And that's when I said to you, I've got to dig more with this and get this out there, because people are missing this conversation.

Yes. Yeah. And I think you explained it very well, that was my perspective. I'm sitting here and I'm listening to all these ideas get thrown out. And of course, good intentions completely. You know, everybody in the room are givers. And so. But I'm like, but what? Wait, how. First of all, how is that any different than what's already happening? What we're doing is just perpetuating what's already happening. And then what you mentioned. Second of all, let us take. Give us the money and then we'll take care of our own. It's not going to be any poor black people. We will take care of our own if we have enough money. The thing is, we can't trickle the money down because we're not getting enough of it. So it's getting stuck in the middle class. And then the underprivileged, we can only help them so much. So, yes, then we do need, you know, a white nonprofit to come in and say, oh, let's help the underprivileged. It's like, yeah, well, what if there were enough black female millionaires? You know, what if I could partner with a Natalie Jill or a JJ Virgin or whoever and then get my name out there? And then. And this is the second part that I mentioned that you can't mention, only I can mention, is that there's this idea that white is right. So in the black community, we are more likely to work with Natalie Jill than Kanae Corder, because, well, white's right. So I think if it's a white woman saying it and a black woman saying it, probably should just go with the white woman because she's probably the one that's right. And maybe the black woman. I don't know, maybe she. Even though it sounds like they're saying the same thing, the white woman's right.

Which is so interesting to me. And that's when I really got that. And the reason I understand it, especially females, you listening? Because I think men may still not get it fully, but females, you know, this experience where we have to latch onto the male, where we have to. And we've accepted. We've started to, like, accept it as it's normal. And I, if I hear you correctly, that's kind of what's happened too, with you. Like, we've accepted it as normal. So what is the. What is in your mind, Kanae? What is the true problem that we need to address? And how can we better address it? Because that's. That's the million dollar question. And also because I think another reason I really loved you is you're so not a victim mentality person. And I think what triggers a lot of people, we all need hypnotherapy around this, but what triggers a lot of people is the victim mentality. Like. Right. And what I want to share is like, Kanae is so far from victim, you're not a victim at all. So I would love to hear from your perspective what the actual problem is and how we act, what we actually can do to help.

Okay, So I do want to address both of those true problems. And what should we address so that we can make some real lasting change? Right. But I want to mention this first. There were two other black women in the room. And I mentioned, because I want you guys to know this, I mentioned these things not so to sound like a victim, but so that you know the paradigm that's happening. So there are two other black women in the room, which I would love to get to know. But if I spend my time getting to know Lauren or, you know, if I spend my time getting to know any of the other black women, then I miss out on a chance to partner with a white woman who I probably can go further with. So now that's the capitalist in me. Right?

Right.

The capitalism is saying, we are. These are all successful women. We are all trying to grow to our next level. It's not as likely that one of the black women and I will grow together. It's more likely that one of us, one of the black women, should partner with a white woman. If we want to grow now, later, once we grow and scale and get to our next level, once we level up, then we can go back to each other and say, hey, girl, I really wanted to get to know you back then, but we didn't have time. So that's another part of it that black women end up being sort of adversarial. They shouldn't be. But they. They see it like, as only one of us is going to make it, which is sad because all of us, it's enough in the world for all of us. And just like you said, it was 30, 35 women in that room. We could have all found somebody that we clicked with and that we saw something with that was a collaborate, a beautiful collaboration. But there's this mentality that comes out like, oh, gosh, there's only going to be one of us and which one of us? And I got, you know, the whole crabs.

Is this something spoken amongst you and your friend like, is this something. Because I had never even heard it phrased like this before. Is this something you had just been thinking and said, or is this something that's common knowledge? Like, were the other women in the room aware of this? This too?

Yeah, they were. And that's why when I said it, they were just, like, nodding. Like, yeah, pretty much. You know, they know, but it's not something that's spoken. I don't have to say it, because we know. Like, we can look at each other and just go, like, hey, girl, and, like, go do your thing, and I'm gonna go do my thing. We already know. And then if we can't get a chance to get together, then we will. But you just kind of already know. It's unspoken.

How do we fix this? Because, like, I feel like with. With the women, with the white female, male thing, we've sort of accepted it. Like, we just, like, kind of accepted it. And sometimes some people really speak out about feminism. But I don't. Like, I can say, I played the game in corporate. I played the game. Like, I'm like, I know I gotta be on the white male side. Like, I just kind of. And that's not right either, because we're just ignoring it. Then, like, what in your mind? And this is a really big question, so I'm not expecting you to have all the answers. I just want to start a conversation around it. Like, how do we even begin to help her fix this?

Well, I think it's in some of what you said. So I teach a class. I have a course called Control the Controllable. I also teach it one on one. Control the Controllable. The first step in that is awareness, which is what you and I are talking about right now. You had some awareness in that meeting, and then you're like, we need to just talk about this more so other people can have the same breakthrough, you know, awareness that I have. And then the second part is what you just mentioned is acceptance. Some part of that we do have to accept. Now, just the way that life is set up, there is hierarchy. There's somebody at the top, and there's the next level, and then the next level and the next level. That's why your podcast level, right? We're trying to get to that level. And what we're really saying is, if there is somebody at that next level, then I need to partner with them. But here is the problem. The next level is full of all the same people, right? The white male is at that level, and so the white female just below him, and then the black female, or maybe even sometimes the black male. And Then the black female, it kind of switches depending on the industry. Sometimes the black female is at the low at the bottom. Sometimes the white. I mean, the black male is at the bottom, but just depending upon how that's leveled up. But just think, if both black male and female are at the bottom, neither one of us can bring each other up to our next level because we got so far to go. We're like kind of on your own. Every man for himself. Whoever can get to the next level first, hopefully you could come back and help some of us. So that next level up for us would be a white woman. And then the next level up for you would be a white male. Now, a lot of times for me, like you said, I don't play the victim. I play very strategically and I'm a problem solver. So I skipped right over the white woman level and I went to the white male level. And that works for me. Yeah, join country clubs.

You learn the game, you learn the same thing.

You learn, you know, like I did the things that you need to do to get to the white male. And. And the great thing was, oh, I don't want to curse, but none of them wanted to have sex with me. I was about to say male version of that statement right there. They weren't trying to have sex with me. So it was easier for me to make it than it might be for you because, you know, they want to have sex with you. So your. Your fight is a little harder than my fight. Actually, as a black female, I can get to the white white male and get him to raise me up before raising you. Because he. You owe him something. I don't owe him anything. In fact, he might even feel like he owes me something.

Interesting. Interesting. So you can work that game too. You're like, I'll work the game sale. So when I started thinking after I met you and I really thought about this for a few weeks, like, I was like, how can I do my part? How can I help? Because it really landed for me about, I never feel right about just like, because it's black, underprivileged donate here. Like, that didn't. That wasn't sitting right with me. And I donate a lot. I love helping. And when I get understand someone's story, I am compassionate. I do understand. But what I saw in you is how can we help lift up this, the strong black woman? Like, how do we help them? Because that sets a better example for people too. And that actually takes people out of victim mentality. It's not about Because I don't love victim mentality either. And I feel if we are constantly in a handout place, then we just keep perpetuating victim mentality. But if we can show the flight of the black woman, if we could show the plight of it, if we could show that they can be educated, they can be strong, they can be powerful, they can be. You can be successful, that rises everybody in my mind.

Yes, absolutely. So what is missing? The piece that needs to be in place is access. Right?

Access.

And so black women may not even one have the network. So the fact that I'm in the club gives me access that I would not normally have had. So it is a blessing to be part of that group. Now, I know I say that, and I know that I bring a blessing to the group, but I still recognize that it is a blessing being part of that group, because that's excess that a lot of women that look like me are not going to have. Now, here is another part of the problem. She does not even know that she would be welcome there. That woman that looks like me. I just don't care about stuff like that. Yeah, I know. Everybody loves me. You just got to get to know me, and you're gonna love me. That's my.

And that is true about you.

It's like, if somebody doesn't like me, I'm like, oh, it's okay. They just don't know me.

You're like, it's their problem. Ego is not your issue. Self confidence. You got it.

So. And it's. You know, some of it is just upbringing. My mom just always made us believe that, you know, if. If they don't like you, it's because they don't know you. So that's up to you. Like, just be yourself. You gotta be all the way. Cane is what my boyfriend calls it. All the way. If you're all the way, can they. It's no way. Nobody can like you.

Yeah.

Likable.

But why aren't we teaching that message more? Like, that's a strong. That's a. That people do need to feel that way. That is a strong message in itself. I mean, it is.

And I was just talking about that because right now, everybody's afraid of being canceled, right? If you say the wrong thing today and they're like, oh, I'm not listening to the Natalie Juice show anymore, she said, blah, blah, blah. And everybody's so afraid of being canceled. But if you say things that you really, truly believe in, if you are your true, authentic self, and then somebody decides they don't want. They don't like what you said. You can stand behind those words because those words meant something to you. And you talked about me saying profound things. Like, every word out of my mouth was profound. That is a product of my mom saying I. For the first two years of my life, I didn't say any words like, not baba, cookie, mama, none of that. I was zero words. I was just observing, observing, observing. And then at 2 years old, I said my first sentence, not words, sentence was, you're bothering me.

And it was true.

It was honest. And that's how I felt in that moment. And everybody laughed. They were like, oh, my gosh, first of all, she can't talk. And second of all, boy, is she honest. And I think that's what happens very early on. They let me do that. They let me say, you're bothering me. And my parents were like, oh, well, thanks for letting. My grandmother was who I said the sentence to. And she's like, oh, all right. Well, let me get out of your way, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. And so I was taught at a very early age that being your true, authentic self, saying what's on your mind is okay. Now, I had to hone that over the years and learn not to hurt somebody's feelings using it, but not to lose my authenticity. It's not what I was saying. It was how I was saying it sometimes. And if I put love in that. This sentence, then I can get my point across and let the person know that everything I said on Chalene Josh's show, everything I said on, you know, any of the other places where I've had this race relations conversation, everything I said, I stand behind And I believe 100% right now, today, now, somebody presents me with new information that I know to be true. Oh, my gosh. Thank you, Natalie, for giving me that new information. Now I have a different perspective. But today, right now, in this moment, this. That there's at least, I don't know, 100,000 people who also believe what I believe. It's billions of people in the world. Not everybody is going to agree with me. So I'm giving these little nuggets. I don't know if you're picking them up, but, like, so the part of that is, say your truth, right? Just be in your truth, but also know that it's true for you right now. Like, as you evolve as a person, you might believe something and be open to receiving new information. But if you don't have new information, what you believe is what you believe, know that you're probably not alone. And there's some people who believe what you believe, and it might not be the people you want to be in the room with. Like, if I said something in that room and they were like, oh, you can't be in here anymore, that's okay, I understand. We believe different things. I'm okay with not being in the room. The problem would have been is if I really wanted to be in that room and I couldn't accept that, that wasn't the room for me. So if you get canceled because you said what you truly believe, then that was what's supposed to happen. Figure out what's next. The universe has something in line for you, especially if that's what you truly believe.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because. Because the times that I've been triggered online, on social media, like, if I. If I really look back at my years on social media, if I was triggered by people's comments, it was. If I really dig, it's because I wasn't being my authentic self. I wasn't speaking my truth. I was instead saying something I thought I was supposed to say. If I'm telling my truth, what's in my heart, my beliefs, there's nothing anyone that's going to. Can say that's going to cancel or trigger me because. Because it's my belief, it's my truth. So I think when I'm watching, like this whole canceling of people, if I really were to, like, spend time digging on that, usually it's because it was fake. Like they were trying to do. Trying to appease someone or say something. Even if someone screws up, like, let's just say you say like the worst thing possible and you're like, I didn't mean to say that. The truth is then to say I really screwed up. I didn't mean to say that. That's the truth. But what people do is they go do this whole PR thing or this whole, like. And people see through that.

Yep, exactly. So, so true. Exactly what you said. And the only other time I see that, like, I'm a. I'm a meditation teacher on Inside Timer. And I remember once I rushed this meditation and I uploaded it to Inside Time because I wanted to keep my schedule.

Yeah.

Low schedule. And I rushed it and it wasn't my best work. And I got the worst reviews. And I was triggered like, what the hell?

Yeah.

And I was like, oh, my God, I never get bad reviews. I just got my first bad review. This sucks. Blah, blah, Blah, blah. And she's like, why do you think you're so upset about it? And I was like, I didn't do my best. And I know I didn't do my best.

Makes sense.

And so I deserved everything they were saying because it wasn't my best. I rushed through that. They didn't deserve that.

No. And I, and I. And I asked people to check themselves because I talked to a lot of. Especially in the influencer space that we feel, like they were canceled or, or whatever. Like when everything was happening, like when George Floyd's death happened because so many people were getting bombarded and posting and all that, I had my own conversation in my head, like, am I doing something wrong? And I had to like, reground myself and think, okay, no, I'm not. I am inclusive. I do these things. I knew. I know who I am. So now let me speak from my heart versus, like, speak from what people are telling me to say.

Yes.

So I think it's important. And so what you said really makes sense. I think on any level. You know, you people just want. You want to be your authentic self and not post for agenda, not say things because you think you're supposed to, but be who you are and share more of that. And then it doesn't matter what other people say or think.

Yep, absolutely. Because what you'll hear me say over and over and over again is it's love and up from there. Right. If love is your neutral, if you start with love and then all those other negative emotions that could come up, but I just like those. What needs to be canceled are those negative emotions. Start with love and move up from there. If you start with love, nothing that comes out of your mouth is going to be offensive. Because even if the words are like, triggering, if they come with love, then people can receive them.

And sometimes when people are feeling attacked or canceled, they should probably listen to it sometimes, too. Sometimes there's a reason, you know, And I think. And I think people are also very understanding and will come back and say, like, people can make mistakes. We're human. And when you authentically say, maybe I should learn from this, I think people do want to help. I think the issue is when people block that out. Yeah, yeah.

And you have to be. This is where the awareness comes in of your own unconscious bias or, you know, where you may be hurting somebody's feelings. There's so much that I don't know about. You know, nowadays transgender is. It's a pretty new topic. You know, people weren't talking about being transgender. You know, I'm gonna say 10 years, but maybe it's just longer than that. But yeah, this is a new topic. So I could easily say something completely ignorant out of my mouth that might be harmful to them. But if they say to me, kanae, that was hurtful, now I know it's helpful for us.

It's helpful to know, because we don't. My 13 year old corrects me all the time because I guess the 13 year olds know everything.

They.

Say all kinds of wrong things. And she's like, mom, you can't say that or you can't. And I'm like. And then I think back to what my parents said to me and my grandparents, like, it's a learning thing. But we, because of social media, it just gets so feisty now.

Yep. Yeah. So I do want to touch on more of the solution. So we talked about awareness and acceptance, but then there's the adjust. So there are some things that we do need to just accept. Right. It is what it is. There's some hierarchy, and that's the way it is. And that part is not going to change quickly. It's going to take some time. So we need to adjust. And first of all, we need to take baby steps. One of the biggest problems that we have is that we're looking to do some one fell swoop, wave your magic wand and change the world. And it's unrealistic. It's like, let's take baby steps. Maybe that baby step is where Natalie, Jill and Kanae Corner are doing something together. And people see these two women who could be competition are working together on a bigger plan. And it's not to help the needy. It's just to sell a product. They created a product that they're selling together. And it's not going to the needy. It actually has a price tag. Pay it because it's worth it. Because both of them are brilliant. And like, once we start doing things like that, where it's not all about like, oh, let's skip the middle and go totally. Because just feeding the needy, like, you know, give a man a fish kind of thing, they're just eating for that amount of time, that food runs out. But if you can actually teach a man to fish, there's so many things that you have access to and probably knowledge of that I don't. And even though my parents both were corporate first and then ran a business, I have some knowledge, but I'm still learning. And it's such a long learning curve that I'm Like, I've made a lot of mistakes in business. Every one of them I've learned from. But my daughter, she doesn't have to make the same mistakes because I can say, oh, babe, don't do that. You know, let me give you a little helping hand there. But if your parents haven't been business owners or if you don't know anybody who ever has, there's so much you don't know. There's a lot of trial and error, and trial and error is expensive, and not everybody can make it through child error. Luckily, I have good credit, so I could take on some debt because I've made some expensive mistakes, and I have had to pay. American Express has had to bail my butt out a lot of times. And really, that's the truth. I love being honest in business. And sometimes I don't have the money to do what I'm trying to do, but I'm willing to take on debt, and I will. And it might make it. It might not. But I just don't stop. I'm like, oh, the only thing that makes me a failure is if I stop. So I'm just gonna keep going, okay, now I paid that debt off. Let's see if I could try something else. And so I'll go out and I'll try something else, and if it works, it works. It's like, okay, it took me to my next level. Learn from that. But sometimes this. This learning curve could be smaller if I could work with somebody who has made those mistakes.

That makes sense. Yeah. So I'm hearing from you, just more of a blend. Like, more of a helping everybody across. Because it's like, it still is. There still is this clickiness. And people can say that there isn't, but there is. I mean, why was there only. Why in a group of 35 powerful women, was there only three black there? Like, that? I noticed it. So why. Why is that? And us. I think us asking those questions and being more.

Let me say that three is a high number, sadly enough.

That's sad to think that. Yeah. But why is that? You know, why. Why we. I think it's just us asking why. Like, getting more curious about that.

Like, why is yes now? And asking why is the beginning? Because that'll just bring the awareness. And then. Then the second part is how. Right. How can we change this? Like you asked in the beginning. And the question that I like to frame when I'm in therapy is, what would it take? Because sometimes asking why will lead us down. The whole. We get distracted by all the different whys that come up. But if we ask the question that you were asking earlier, what would it take? And it would take some of the women saying, I think somebody said, oh, well, instead of taking on a project, I'll give it to somebody else. Not one that's near and dear to your heart. No, you keep that. That's your project. Don't give up your blessing for somebody else to have a blessing. No, don't do that. But if it's something you were going to turn down.

Yeah.

Then have a person you can turn it down to. I can't do it. But I'd love to recommend this.

And it makes sense what you're saying, because I heard you loud and clear. You're not asking for handouts. You're not saying, like, I want. You're just saying, let us sit at the table too. Like, let think of us. Think of us.

Yeah.

And you know what's interesting? I told you. I think I told you this when I met you. So I was raised Jewish, and I grew up in D.C. area and which we had a huge black population, by the way.

Yeah, okay.

But I didn't like that I was teased for being Jewish as a kid. So I hid that I was Jewish. I, like, was able to. I hid it. I mean, I, like, became the most non Jewish Jewish person that there is. Like, I just. I did for years. And it wasn't until maybe a year ago that I would publicly even say that I was raised Jewish. So, like, I mean, I married the Catholic guys. You know, I like the Christmas trees. I do everything. Like, not. My daughter goes to Christian school. Like, I just did everything, like, non Jewish. And what I said to you was like, you know, it's so interesting. Like, I. Instead of me work dealing, I hit it. Black woman can't hide it.

Nope, you can't.

And I'm not saying me hiding it was right because it's not like that's what people do. We try to hide it. We hide. Like, we hide our pain. And black women can't do that. They can't hide it. So.

Yeah. And so. So one. One thing that I. We can close on is this idea of privilege. You had the privilege to be able to hide that. But I have a privilege, too, and I just have to figure out what it is. Right. That's not my privilege, but I do have one. I just told you that it's likely that white males feel a little bit of guilt and they give me things because they want to make up for it.

I See? Yeah.

Yeah, right? That might be my privilege.

Yeah.

I have a beautiful smile, and I know this now. I didn't always know this, but I know it now. And I use it sometimes when I want to get in line in front of people, I'm like, hi. And I just smile and I'm like.

Her smile, like, takes up her whole face by the way she does.

And then when I go hi. And I smile, I'm like, is it okay? Nobody says no to it, right? I mean, they just have to be like, really, really having a bad day to say no to me. But because I make them feel better in that moment, I. I know that I make people feel better. I know this about myself. And so I use that privilege everywhere I go, every chance I get. So. And what you're saying is we all have to try and figure out our privilege. You have the privilege to be able to hide your Jewish background. I don't have that privilege. I can't hide being black. And in fact, I typically, like, kind of enhance my blackness.

Right.

I have lots of. Some white women have locks, but, you know, that's kind of a black thing. And so, like, I will enhance my blackness and embrace it. And. But I also know that I have these other privileges that you might not have that I do. So we all have a privilege. We just have to figure out what it is and how to use it to play that game that we have to accept.

So good. I also, I think I do believe that we are getting better because I, like, I look at my daughter, she's 13. My daughter's half Mexican, half Jewish. And she's like, so proud of both, like, and. Which is interesting because her dad would hide being Mexican. You know, I hide being Jewish. And like, in fact, what's interesting is my ex husband, her dad never learned Spanish as a kid. And I remember when I was dating him, I was like, why didn't you learn Spanish? And he said, well, my parents didn't want me to speak Spanish because they thought I would be teased or I would look like an immigrant. So it's like I just watched, like, how our generation was, like, into this hiding and having to get by where my daughter's generation is more. It's really normalizing. Like, no, we're embracing all of this. So I feel like we are getting somewhere, we are making progress. I just think it takes more and more conversations like this. More love, like you said, more open minds, more learning and us stepping out of our comfort zone and being able to have these conversations because that Wasn't comfortable in the room of all of us having that conversation with you.

But.

But we're all glad we had it.

Yes, absolutely. And vice versa. You know, it wasn't. We had to be really vulnerable, all of us, to have that conversation. I had to be vulnerable to let you know that Lauren and I can't spend time together because we gotta get around this room and get to know you guys. That hurts us.

Yes.

But I wanted you to know that so you would know what was happening out there. The other thing that I want to say to add to what you were saying is that the last thing that we need to do is kind of get out the way based on what you say the next generation is. Those are the leaders. Why are you and I trying to make this conversation happen when they clearly know how to have it better than we do? So why don't we pull them into the conversation? I love that. Let them lead us to water so then we can drink. Because we perpetuated it. We perpetuated it.

Yes.

And now we're trying to get out of it because they are demanding that we do.

Yes. And I love that. Yes. That's amazing.

Yeah.

This was so powerful. I hope you all listening, really liked it. I hope you took and liked this perspective. It was different. It's so much. It was such a different perspective than what I'd been hearing and all the conversations. So I really thought it was important to share this. And thanks so much, Kenne, for having this conversation with me.

Yes. And even if they don't like it yet, I'd like to say, even if you actually. If you didn't like it. So two things I want to say. One, if you didn't like it, it ask yourself, what would it take for me to understand what they were discussing? Right. What would it take? And then if you did like it, then you're in a different place. So if you didn't like, if it was just too uncomfortable for you, that is a. We just planted a seed that still needs to be watered and harvested and, you know, sunshine, all of those things. But if you liked it, that means the seed was already planted in you some time ago and we watered it or, you know, put some sun on it for you. So it kind of blossomed out. So then you're going to ask what's next? So now that I know this and I. And I like this and I feel something, I feel it in my body, what is the next thing that I'm going to do? Whatever you come up with is Right. Even if somebody else tells you it's wrong, it's not. Whatever it is is right because you thought of it, it came from your heart. And if that's what you decided to do, do it. And if you want to do something different the next time because maybe it didn't turn out the way you thought it would, then different. But don't let anybody tell you that the gesture you made from your heart is wrong. You will not be canceled as long as it's from your heart.

And I love what you said. I'm going to go back to right what you said. Awareness, acceptance adjusts. So awareness. This conversation is just about awareness, acceptance. Whether we believe it or not, it's. It's reality in a lot of ways. And then adjust. Like, what are you going to do with the information? If you choose to do nothing with information, that's your choice. But I just. It's interesting to. I like learning, you know, I read a lot. I read sides of everything. I have my beliefs politically, but I read a lot about the other side, trying to understand. I think we have to seek to understand first if we want change.

Yes, absolutely.

Where can people find you if they want to learn more about hypnosis and all the wonderful things you do? Where should they go?

Yes. So I created a group for doctors. And if you want to know more about that, you can go to my website, presidentiallifestyle.com and there I teach doctors my breakthrough resistance techniques. You remember I said you don't have to be a hypnotherapist to do some of these things. Some of these things just help breakthrough resistance. And I think that a lot of people need to know and have these tools now. You don't have to be a doctor to join the group. It's not like you have to show your board certification or anything, but that's who the doctor group is for. Because I feel like doctors are the gateway to healing. And a lot of times they don't even have all the tools because they don't teach doctors how to heal in school. So I wanted to give them some tools that they could use because resistance is the number one thing that stands in the way of healing. And if a doctor isn't taught how to break through resistance, then all they're up against is whether their patient is going to do what they ask them to do or not.

I love that.

A lot of times they're not gonna do it.

And then where are you active on social?

I'm active on Instagram and LinkedIn. That's where you'll see me the most. And I differentiate those two because on LinkedIn, a lot more professional on Instagram, a lot more silly and a lot more of my personal life, you'll see me post with my my boyfriend and my son and my daughters. You know, that kind of stuff. And then on LinkedIn is kind of the more professional side. So depending upon what you're looking for.

Thank you so much. Kanae. Thank you.

You're welcome. Thank you.

Thank you for taking the time out of your day to listen in as my guest today. If you found this episode valuable, please share it with friends and on social media. I don't advertise this show so I rely on word of mouth and reviews to get it out in the world. The biggest thank you that you can give me is Leaving me a review and a nice one. I hope. By the way, this is how others find these episodes. If you do leave me a review, be sure to message me@supportnataliejill fitness.com with a screenshot of your review because I would love to send you a free digital download of my DSR journal as a thank you. And please don't forget to connect with me on social media at Natalie Jill Fit on Instagram and Facebook.

Sam.