Black Mold Poisoning: Should You Be Worried? with Jenna Phillips Ballard

Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned lifestyle and high performance coach. Welcome to Listen up the podcast. On this podcast I do what I do best. Taking complicated information that is relevant to us now and breaking it down simply with actionable steps you can implement to.

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Called Leveling up for the Full Transformative Experience. Today on Listen Up, I'm here with one of my besties, Jenna Phillips Ballard, and I wanted to do this second interview with her. She's been on my podcast before and I will link that up in the show notes if you want to hear our first episode together about her whole story and journey. I wanted to do this one specific because she is one of my besties. I know her inside and out. And a little over a year ago she was going through a health crisis. I mean truly a health crisis. And her friends noticed some things too. She wasn't her normal bubbly, smart, amazing with it Jenna. She was still amazing Jenna, but she was very foggy headed. She started being forgetful, lots of brain fog, scattered thoughts, chronic fatigue. Sounds a lot like someone going through perimenopause as we age. But this was different. This was different for her and it took a big deep dive and she learned that she actually had mold poisoning. So I wanted to have her on this episode today because mold poisoning, mold toxicity is a lot more common than we think. A lot of us have been touched by this with friends or with family members. So I wanted to interview her about it, what she was experiencing, how she figured this out, and then most importantly, what she's been doing about it to get healthy again. So, so thanks so much for being here, Jenna.

Oh Natalie, thank you so much for having me. I always any excuse I have to see your face, I'm all in. So thank you.

So take us back, Jenna. What was the first thing you started noticing when you were like, this is not normal hormones. This is not just stress or something really going on.

Well, it's a very interesting thing, mold toxicity and mold poisoning, because it impacts people differently, very differently. Even two different people living in the same household can have drastically different side effects, symptoms, responses to it. And what I started to notice actually the year before we had found, visually found the mold in our house. My husband Brad was experiencing panic attacks, depression. He was originally the CEO of our company, Ascension Leadership Academy, but he started to have these crazy panic attacks and experiencing depression in a way that just did not make sense. And so it was really challenging as I started to notice kind of very slowly experiencing this in him. And right around the time I gave birth to Jax, which was In September of 2018, I think it was probably about a month or so after, where he shared with me that he was experiencing deep depression and suicidal thoughts. And so, of course, that was very scary. And we just kind of chalked it up to, okay, our whole lives have changed. We're not sleeping at all because we're new parents. And I was also experiencing chronic fatigue, brain fog. And so I just said. I just figured that it was because of that, because I'm not getting sleep like I used to. And do you remember that dinner that you and I had? The four of us, we all sat together, I was still very pregnant. And I said to you, I'm actually afraid of not getting enough sleep. And you said, well, you'll just get used to it. I can't explain it, but you'll just. Your body will just adjust. And I was like, man, I hope so.

She was having. Well, yeah, it's a baby thing. Yeah. Because we're so used to that with a new baby.

Yeah. So I. So I just kind of. I just figured, all right, well, it's just my body's adjusting and I did experience brain fog and the quote unquote, mom brain, but it was going on for months. I mean, it was going on for. So he was born in September of 2019. Fast forward many months, like eight months, nine months forward, we noticed we still were having these symptoms. And I was having conversation with my doctor, who is an amazing naturopath. Her name is Catherine Zagoni, and she was our fertility doctor. She supported us in getting pregnant and also postpartum and all that stuff. And. And I noticed that my symptoms were so significant and so challenging, I didn't really know what to make of it. I just again, figured it was postpartum and all of that. But Brad was also experiencing a lot of really challenging experience as well. So we then visually found mold in one of our closets. And the whole baseboard was covered in this black kind of green, murky looking kind of mold. And we had some stuff in there. We wound up pulling it out.

And how did you find it? Were you looking for it or was it an accident that you found it?

It was actually Mindy, who Found so Mindy, who is our mutual friend and an incredible support system for both of us, she was supporting us and rearranging because we were. We were really trying to get organized, and she was supporting us with that. And so she pulled out the stuff, and she's like, it smells kind of messy in here in this closet that was underneath our stairs next to our kitchen. And she's like, oh, my gosh, you have mold. And so I didn't know a lot about mold when we found it, but I knew that it wasn't good. Like, I knew that it was not a good thing to have.

So had you smelled anything before with the mold? Had you even noticed now, like, when she said that, were you like, oh, I did smell something musty? Because the reason I'm bringing this up is I think a lot of people live with black mold without even knowing it's there. And so I'm wondering if you. Did you have that musty smell or you didn't even know until she found that?

So that closet I had, I'd smelled kind of like a mustiness in there before, but I didn't. I didn't really. I was like, okay, it's a closed space. It's a closet. So sometimes I would leave the door open because it smelled just kind of musty. It smelled like it was just. There was no ventilation in there. So I was like, oh, that's what that smell was. That's so crazy. So we wound up pulling everything out. We let our landlord know and about it that we found it, and she had a handyman come over and just get in there and pull out the drywall. But after he fixed it, he put a new drywall. He's like, oh, it's actually along the baseboard on the outside. It's actually kind of wrapping itself around outside of the. Outside of the closet into the kitchen. So then we had a whole restoration company come in and look at it. So then that was like a whole other can of worms that opened up. But that was, like, the first stage of that whole process.

Wow. So I'm sitting here thinking as I'm talking to you, I have a closet in my house that smells super. Must see? And I. It's like a storage closet. I haven't dealt with it. It makes me wonder, like, is there mold behind the walls? How would I even know if you.

If.

How do. Do people. How do people look for something like this if they think they could have it in their house?

Well, you can actually have somebody come into your home. You can hire somebody. I don't remember the name of the company that we hired in San Diego, but we hired a mold specialist to come in and wipe down the surface and then run a test. So sometimes you have. You don't even. You can't even visually see it, but you have it. So. But it is. It is quite common to actually see it. And, you know, there are so many different kinds. So many different types of mold. Some are toxic, some are not great. But. But you can also. You can actually live with it in your space. But most molds are just really, really bad for your health. So.

So what do you do when you have it? So. So first of all, should everybody be checking their house for mold? That's question number one. And then my next question is, what do you do if you have it in your house? What's the next step?

So the challenge. So first, I want to say mold is incredibly common, especially in California. It's also quite common in. I'm now living in Austin. So it's also. I've learned that it's common here as well. So I would highly recommend, if you have any question or curiosity or potential consideration, like, is there actually a mold in my space, to hire somebody to come in and test it? Because it's so common that people have responses to it, reactions to it that are often misdiagnosed because people don't. Doctors don't think to actually look for it. There are specific tests that you actually take to detect how much mold is actually in your body and just to set some context around the level of severity of the mold that we were experiencing in our body before we actually had our house tested. So we visually found the mold. I called my doctor after I had a whole conversation with our property management company, which, by the way, they said, well, we just want to let you know that it's actually safe to stay in your house, because we did some tests and it's only mildew. So you're. It's totally fine to stay in the house. And so I said, so you tested it? And she said, yes, the restoration company tested it. It's just mildew should be totally fine for you to stay there. And I said to her, are you sure? And she says, yes, I'm sure. And I said, if we find out that we're living in black mold, which is a challenge because I have an autoimmune disorder disease because I'm type 1 diabetic, I have an infant. I said, if we are living in black mold, that's going to Be not a good day for you. And she's like, no, it's fine. You can totally stay there. Because we requested. We can. All the things. We made all these requests, and they weren't willing to abide to that. So anyway, so they said, it's totally fine. You can stay in the house. It's just mildew. So after I had this conversation with my doctor, I said, I really. My gut is telling me that we have. We have black mold. It's more than mildew because I don't feel normal. I haven't felt like myself in months. This is not normal. Brad hasn't been like himself in months. We. I really want to get tested. So she sent over urine tests. We had a phlebotomist come to our house. A phlebotomist does blood work, like, extracts blood from you. So we wind up pulling out blood, had our blood drawn, ran all these tests, and we found out that we had high levels of black mold because again, there are multiple types of mold. We had black mold poisoning in our bodies. And just to set some context. And again, I'm not a data analysis, but the normal number, like if you were to scale the amount of mold that you live in, that was. That is normal. Is like a number four. So one is like, hey, it's present, it's okay. Two is like, well, kind of. It's increasing, but it's still okay to live. Three, it's getting more. More intense, but it's still okay to be there. Anything over four, you can't. You don't want to live in that environment. So the number that was. That was determined in our bodies was over 400.

Whoa. So over.

Yeah, so that was like above and beyond. And so we realized, like, wow, okay, this is. This is a sign from the universe. It's time to not live in this house anymore. We then hired a mold specialist to come into our. Into the house to wipe everything down, to just double check, because maybe it's not the house, but we just really wanted to be sure. So she wiped down all the spaces in the house. And it was off the charts. Like, she. And she literally said, no human or animal should live in these conditions. They need to remediate the entire entire house. And so what sometimes can happen, depending on the level of mold toxicity, is you may need to get rid of 70 to 90% of your belongings, because anything that's porous can actually keep the spores, like has actual spores still on actual surface. And so if you move, you basically bring the things with you. So we got rid of some of our stuff and. Yeah.

How did you know what to get rid of? Did they help you with that? Like, tell you what, these are things that you can't keep because of this. How do you even know?

So I asked her, I said, do we need to get rid of all of our stuff? And she said, I don't want to say that, but you can. Actually. Some of the things that we did is we had some things professionally cleaned. You can get machines that create like their ozone machines are called ozone machines and they can basically purify the whole space. So you basically put one of these machines in your house and you can purify the entire house. So I have some friends who've had pretty severe mold, mold poisoning. And that's what they use. They use an ozone machine. You can also get an air purifier. We actually got one of those. We got an air purifier which reads the level of toxicity in the air and it can actually clean it. So we have one of those in our. In our house is a Dyson machine. So, yes, we have that.

One of those too. But that actually is strong enough to clean mold. One of the.

Yeah. So I want to say, I want to say yes because it just has me feel better. So it's like. But you just never know. It's. It's one of those things that is. It creeps into your space. And so our current house we live in is not infested with mold, luckily.

I'm assuming you tested it before you even moved in.

Yeah, of course. Of course.

Wow. Ok. So that's a lot. So when you figured something out, like not everybody has the option just to go move when this happens. So my questions now are, can you combat mold in a house? Can you get rid of it if you moving is not an option? And then what do you do about your body? Because clearly having this much in your body, you had to get that out asap. What did you do?

There are a lot of supplements that you can take. So my doctor put me on a really strict supplement protocol that I've been taking so many supplements just specifically for this. So I'll just give you an example of one of them. Obviously, I'm not a doctor. I'm not going to prescribe any of this to anybody listening. But one that I'm taking is charcoal and that is really effective. A lot of people I know who've had mold poisoning, it's taken charcoal and that really supported them. Also sweating. Sweating is a big, huge contributor to that. And the challenge for me with that and obviously fitness, as you know, was my life for 20 years with the mold poisoning. I found it very, very challenging to move my body. I had pretty much no motivation whatsoever. The idea of exercising was like, oh, man. Like that just. And so that was, that was a big challenge. But infrared saunas really help. So that's another thing that's really supportive to drinking tons of water. Also not eating anything that could potentially grow mold. So grain. So if you, you know, when you have bread for too long and then it gets mold on it. So that's, that's one thing you don't want to be eating. You don't want to be eating grains. You don't want to be eating anything that has gluten in it. Also, dairy is, is something that you want to avoid when you're, when you're experiencing mold toxicity. Also, most coffees have mold in them. So a coffee that I drink and love is, is bulletproof. Bulletproof is mold free. So what's really interesting is Dave Asprey was very, very sick from mold poisoning, mold toxicity. And my bulletproof being started is because he was sick, he was overweight, he was so unhealthy because of the mold poisoning. And he started really looking into biohacking and how he could heal himself. And because of that, he was inspired to start bulletproof. So that's an incredible thing that came out of that.

So, Jenna, a lot of people already do, especially people in my audience, especially when they've done my programs, they're already not doing grains. They're already not doing dairy. They're probably not doing gluten or sugar either. Hopefully they're sweating and doing that shouldn't. I mean, I just. Listening to you, I'm feeling like people should sort of live like that Anyway, so is what she was doing just sort of helping you heal faster? Like just saying, let's let your body to the healthiest state possible to get this out. And then adding in things like charcoal, which I did know remove things, and charcoal removes other things. I'm assuming too, it's not just mold. It helps get toxins out of your body. Correct? If I know.

Yeah. So there's. There's also something that I want to just let you know. I've also been doing this allergy protocol, these, these drops that I put under my tongue. So it's like a, it's a three month commitment and you just build up. So you're working on managing any allergens in your body. So I've been doing drops. I've been doing supplements. So that, again, the whole protocol is specific to the level at which I've been experiencing mold toxicity. And. And I think that for all of you who are listening, if you have any kind, because mold can also create depression, anxiety, forgetfulness. It can also create other autoimmune diseases in your body as well. So there are so many health challenges that can come from it. Epstein Barr, I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

So what's interesting about Epstein Barr is most of the population actually probably has Epstein Barr, because any virus you have, even as a child, like, I had mono as a child, it basically sets off the Epstein Barr virus. And then what happens is anytime you're. You challenge your immune system or you get sick, usually that Epstein Barr virus can come back up to surface. I know when I had Covid last year, that's what happened. My Epstein Barr virus triggered as well. So I actually got double sick because I had Covid and that. So that doesn't surprise me that that would reactivate with mold poisoning or any of that and also could throw off, you know, your immune system and make you have another autoimmune. How are you feeling now with all of this, with the whole regiment?

Well, it is really interesting is I started to experience my motivation coming back about 10 weeks ago. And in that, I was like, okay, I am moving my body. I am going to yoga. I am back at the gym. But I wasn't experiencing being grateful for that experience. I was thinking three months down the line, I was trying to live in the future, and I broke my ankle because it was a huge intervention from the universe, because who I want to be for my audience is present. Who I want to be for the people that I'm here to serve is engaged and present and focused and here right now. And I wasn't embodying that, because for the first time in so many months, I was finally experiencing motivation. And so I was trying to keep this momentum going. And the lesson that I learned in all of that was the power of right here, right now, is the only place that anything can change. And I was trying to put myself in this place that doesn't exist, which is the future. And so I really. I really got to slow down. So I'm walking again. Actually went for my first hike a couple days ago, and I sweat for the first time in so many weeks. So it really just has felt so good to me. So how I'm feeling right now in this moment is so at Peace. I know that I'm every day releasing the mold toxicity because it's a conscious choice that I'm making rather than because I honestly don't want it to be my story. I'm happy to share the information. I want to inform people and educate people because it's something that goes misdiagnosed. So often people don't know that the symptoms they're experiencing depression, low, low energy. The list goes on and on. They don't think that it could actually be from mole. They just think they're like, oh, this is how we go.

We go to hormones. We usually go to hormones. Right. Is it perimenopause? That I just. Is it postpartum? Is it menopause? Is it that? And then if we're not there, then, you know, then is it breast implant illness? There's like. There's a whole list of things that people are talking about other than mold toxicity, which is so interesting. So.

And I think also weight gain is another thing. So Brad gained a ton of weight, probably 20, 30 pounds, and it's been really challenging for him to get it off. So that's another thing that is one of the symptoms. So it impacts people in so many different ways. So if you're listening and you're curious, you're like, man, I've been feeling a certain way that it's inexplicable to me. I don't know what the source is. I would invest the money into getting test. Like a test for anything and everything, and maybe even look into the possibility of having exposure to mold because it does also exist in food, exists in coffee exist, and so many things that you wouldn't even think.

So with the place to start, be getting your body tested for it or getting your health tested for it. I'm assuming getting your body tested for it. If you have any assumption first to figure out, is it even in my body?

I would say definitely get tests done. I mean, there are so many different tests that are done. But don't ever think to look for mold. So that's why it often goes misdiagnosed. But if you are experiencing just the sluggishness and you can't figure it out, it could. I'm not saying this is not a diagnosis. Let me reiterate that. And it could be something like mold that is. That is causing that.

Yeah. So one of the questions I wanted to circle back to, do you. And maybe you don't know the answer, but, like, what can be done if it's in a house? Like the house you were living in, do they have to gut the whole house? Can they fix it? Like how. What happens if you have mold in your house and you can't move?

So I a couple things. You can actually hire a company to come in and either remediate. So if you're renting, remediation may not be a thing, but you actually can hire someone, a specialist to come into your home and manage it as much as possible. And sometimes remediation is the only way. So that's when it gets really challenging, especially if you're renting. But what I want to say, if you are renting and you. You expect experience, you have mold in your space, move out, figure out a way to move out.

And you can get out of your lease for something like that. By the way, if you're like, but I'm in a year lease, you can. The house. We were in a house years ago also, which is just like you said, everyone has different symptoms. I had no symptoms from it. Nothing. But Brooks, my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, he constantly had sinus issues and a cold and he just was always feeling run down and we couldn't figure it out. And then same type of thing, we found mold in there and it was like spread like crazy. And we did get out of our lease because of that. In that house.

Yeah.

There.

And. And I think that what's really cool about all this is that people are starting to learn more and more about the severity of used to just be whatever. Like it wasn't even in the clause of your contract of if you're a renter. And then there's the owner. That was something that just wasn't. They wouldn't cover that. Insurance companies wouldn't cover that. So. But I think that people are finally starting to realize how severe it is and how severe it is. And then also the kinds of repercussions that can exist in your health down the line because people are just getting so sick. It really comes down to people are making houses as quickly as possible using cheap materials. And when moisture gets in there, it just festers. And that's undeniable.

Well, Jenna, I believe that you probably saved somebody's health today. I'm sure there's a lot of people actually listening that are their wheels are spinning with, do I need to check this? So this was super helpful and I'm so glad you're on the upside. How's Brad doing now with this too?

You know, we were. Now we're going to start working with some specialists here in Austin, because it is pretty common here as well. So we're going to start getting a whole different protocol because we got our test done again and the numbers were basically just as high after being out of space for about six months, which means that that's how severe it was. Even though we're not living in mold poisoning, the numbers hadn't dropped very much. So we're going to. We're just going to totally kick it up into next gear. And the thing is the awareness and to not be a victim to it. So it's not something that I'm allowing to define me. It's something that I'm allowing me to really take my health on in a way that I never have before and also pass this on and share information. So he's doing better, he's not as stressed, and the depression anxiety is not severe like it was before. But I'm noticing it's been challenging for him to release the extra weight that he's put on. And it's just part of it. We're. We're totally just being in the present moment and trusting that we are on track to completely heal, cleanse from it.

So I believe that now, and also for those of you listening, even though Jenna's business has nothing to do with mold, and this is a very unusual share for her, she is an open book and she's a phenomenal coach. She's also the founder of ala, which is. I just was trans. So transformative. They now have one in Austin in addition to the San Diego chapter. You can find Jenna. I'm going to link up her Instagram. What is your Instagram handle? Handle, by the way? I'll say it. But I'm also going to link it up in the show.

Notes Jenna Phillips Ballard. So it's super easy to find me. That's also my website, my full name, and I would love to support any of you have any questions and you're curious about any mold stuff. I mean, I can actually, I can point you in a direction. I'm not the mold specialist, but I can absolutely be the middle person for you and point you in the right direction to get help.

And Jenna is one of the rare people that does respond to all of her Instagram messages. So I do feel free to message her. Everyone message Jenna if you're having any issues with this.

I'm ready.

Yes. Thank you so much, Jenna, for being here and doing this today with my audience. Thank you.

You're welcome. Thanks for having me, Natalie.

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Sam.