Crossfit in Midlife with Deborah Moore

So today on Midlife Conversations, I'm talking with Deborah, who I found on social media. And I was so impressed with her. One, she's my age, so she. I loved that right away. Two, she's fit as anything, like, super fit, super strong. And she's totally been disrupting the belief set around aging. And so she was instantly like a friend from afar for me, because I thought, I love that she's seeing what I see, that we could redefine midlife, that it doesn't have to be a certain way. It doesn't have to be the way media portrays it doesn't have to be the way our grandparents lived midlife. And I love watching her, how strong she is, how motivated, how incredible and how inspiring she is. So I had to know her story. So I brought her on today to hear all things, how she got into this, why she loves CrossFit type of training so much. Like, how does she do that without it hurting her body? And just to say, understand, like, any advice that she has for women our age. So thank you so much for being here, Deborah. I can't wait to talk with you.

Well, thank you. My gosh, what a thrill and an honor to join you here.

So take us back a little bit. I'm assuming, were you always an athlete? Was that something always in you? Was that something later in life? Give us a little background on that.

First of all, I get asked this a lot from my followers. I actually, my whole adult life, I tell people, yes, I have been active, but I usually tell them that I was an endurance athlete. So I, you know, well, I was a rower at university, but then I spent a good chunk of my years as a triathlete. So for those of you who don't know, triathlon is swimming, biking, running, and like running races, there are a bunch of distances, and I specialized in the longest distance, which is called Ironman, but I did not do any strength work. So basically I swam a whole load, biked a whole load and ran a whole load. And then I had kids and that got more difficult because of the time that, that you need to put into it. So I was looking for something new, and that's where the CrossFit came in.

Yeah, tell us about that. Cause I think a lot of, especially women, especially in our age, they're like, they look at CrossFit as this. Like, no, that's for super crazy strong athletes. That's for guys. That's for butch women. Like, they have this whole. Or I'm going to get injured. Tell, tell us a little bit about that. And did you have those thoughts before you.

Of course. You know, I'd never really lifted before. I did a little bit of the gym, you know, dumbbell stuff.

But.

And you know, of course what you see when you Google CrossFit or look it up on YouTube is the elite group of people who are lifting ridiculously heavy weights and throwing sandbags over their shoulders. And so I was a bit apprehensive and I was 49. So, you know, I thought to myself, I'm a good athlete, but I don't know anything about this. I have no idea what I'm. But the thing that I've discovered, well, of course I talked to a lot of people. I went to CrossFit classes where there were great coaches. And, you know, any CrossFit gym that's decent will have a really good set of coaches. And what I've discovered is that CrossFit is actually, that's just the brand name. It's actually the brand name of functional fitness. Okay. So you'll see functional fitness, you'll see that term used everywhere. It's just, it's another type of functional fitness. And the point of functional fitness is that it is accessible to everybody because it involves moves that help us with our everyday function. And the great thing about CrossFit, which I discovered being a beginner three years ago, is that you can scale everything, you can modify everything. Just like in the gym, you can scale your weight. You know, if you can't pick up a 20 pound dumbbell, you can pick up a five pound dumbbell.

So if somebody's listening and going, well, I have injuries, I can't do that. You're saying you can modify. It's not just what you see online or any of that.

For sure, for sure. I mean, obviously if you have injuries, you should consult with a specialist, like a physio to understand what the injury is. But CrossFit, really, it's actually a very basic set of movements. You know, squats feature heavily, deadlifts feature heavily. It's. They're not complicated movements, but you do need to know how to do them properly. And that's what the coaches in a CrossFit gym are, that, that's what they're there for.

Got it. Okay, so they, so when you walked in, first of all, tell me, like, were you intimidated at first, like that? I've always, I drive by those and I see them and I'm thinking they intimidate me. I'm like, I see grunting and throwing things like, and I think of myself as pretty strong and pretty fit, but they've been, they're intimidating to me.

Oh, for sure. Oh, my gosh. You know, I still, even today I work out mostly at home. I have a great CrossFit setup at home. But even when I go for the odd class, of course, I'm still intimidated. Really. There are people there much better than me and there always will be. But you know what I think, because I've got, you know, I'm 52 now. I'm going to be 53 in January. I've stopped caring what people think. And I'm just. I'm just kind of, you know, trying to better myself and compete against myself. And I'm not afraid to make a fool of my. I mean, maybe that is the benefit of being older, is you kind of go into things saying, you know, what have I got left to prove? Nothing. I've got nothing left to prove. I don't care if I embarrass myself or my kids anymore. It's just, I'm going to do what I want to do because it's fun and I love. I love learning. So that's why I keep going back is, you know, I shop at the gym and I'm like, oh, that looks really hard. But then I ask, well, what should I be focusing on? I ask the coach, what should I be focusing on? What's the difficulty? What am I doing wrong here? And I just. It's. It's all about the learning. I think if you open yourself up to learning, I think the ego goes away and the fear goes away or, you know, sort of goes away, there's still fear left.

Talk to me about, in general, women in our age group that are not fit. Your feelings on that. Can anyone get fit? Why is it important? What do you encourage? Because, and I speak this because most women that I speak with or that are in my world, that I see, they are in the. Call it. They're going through the perimenopause and menopause ages their body shifting anyways based on hormones. They're. Their metabolisms are maybe slowing down. They're losing muscle naturally. So they're putting on the 10 to 15 pounds. They're. They're talking about midsection. And, you know, there's sort of this camaraderie and accepting that. And I, And I watch that like, oh, you know, even doctors saying, oh, it's your age. You've got to accept it's your hormones. And I hear this. It's very real for women. And Then I find women like you who. It's like, you can't look like a 20 year old. Like, it doesn't. You're as fit. You wouldn't know anything's changing for that. So I'm curious, just in general, your experience around that, your beliefs that, you know, what do you see and what have you experienced in your own body?

For sure, you've, you know, you've kind of reflected how I feel when I'm, you know, I'm contacted by women every day who are in a completely different kind of frame of mind to me. And, you know, there's no doubt. What I'll say is, there's no doubt. This menopause journey and this aging journey is tricky. I'm. I haven't escaped it. I am in the middle of menopause right now.

Me too.

Right smack bang in the middle of it. I have had all of it. The hot flashes, the aching, the lack of sleep, the, you know, the anxiety and stress and. I don't know.

It's good times.

Oh, yeah. So fun. Men, Men, you know, really are very lucky. They get away with not having to experience a ton of things. But I, you know, I have no idea, I'll be honest. I have no idea whether my experience with menopause, which I don't feel is really horrific, is a function of my mindset and my training or that I've been a bit luckier than some others because of course, everyone's journey is very different or if something else that I'm doing has helped my experience. But what I will say to women out there is that my mantra or my advice to people is don't settle. Don't settle for whatever is handed to you by hormones or by injuries even, or by life events. Because the alternative to me is you settle and you give up and you start sliding backwards. You might have to fight a little bit. And somebody actually once said to me on an Instagram post, why are you fighting aging? And they were asking in a negative way. And I said, I'm not fighting it. I just refuse to settle for a decline.

Because, by the way, I get that too. Like, why? Like, it's not. I think we all get to live it the way that we want. Like, I don't believe it's in fighting it. It's just living it the way that we choose.

Exactly. Exactly. And my response was, I am using my body the way that I can. Why not? If I can do this, why wouldn't I? I don't understand why somebody would want to Let their body just kind of deteriorate. Well, first of all, it's super fun for me. I just, honestly just love it. I get my hands on my barbell every day and I'm like, this is so awesome. I love this so much. But I love that it has helped me feel like I'm still living a full life, as opposed to some of the stories I hear from women, which is, you know, I'm just, I'm devastated. I've put on £20 in the last, you know, six months or a year, and I have no idea why. And I feel my joints ache and my. I can't get out of bed in the morning, and it's really depressing. I desperately need help. I mean, the cries for help that I get are incredible. It's. It's, it's really upsetting. So that, that's what I would say about, you know, the different menopause experiences is everybody's going to have a different experience. But don't settle. Try and find the, the pivots and the adaptations and whatever you can do, right? Just do what you can do.

Deborah, do you find for you and your clients, do you buy into that? The metabolism slows down. It's harder to put on muscle. And if you, you know, do or don't. I'm curious about that. And like, and what do you. How do you combat that? Because clearly you don't have an issue with that right now on your body. Like, you are strong. You are getting stronger.

Well, so I don't know whether I am losing muscle. So here's what I believe in. I believe, yes, I know for a fact from the science that the muscle loss is significant, especially over 50 in our age group. It's something like 10% per decade. So it's terrible. What I do know is that the good point on that is you can actually offset the loss. Right? You can take action. It's within your control. And that's what I love about what I'm able to do, or the fact that I found strength training, CrossFit, is that you can actually offset something that people originally thought was just inevitable. You actually, again, going back to settling, you don't have to accept that you can actually give it a physical stimulus to build the muscle, even though your estrogen is dropping and you're losing that sort of internal mechanism. I think that I, you know, all the rest of it. I mean, the, the other things that come with aging, you know, you do have to fight it a little bit, to use that horrible term. But I definitely buy into the fact that we, we are losing muscle mass, but that we can do something about it. The metabolism thing, it's tricky because I think that is such a, an accepted thing right now. And the science recently has shown that our metabolisms actually don't slow until we're 60 because, because of the hormonal effect anyway. Our metabolism does slow down because of the muscle loss because there's less metabolically active tissue, but it also slows down because of our lifestyle choices as we get older. People don't want to admit this, by the way, they don't want to admit this. And then when I do a deep dive into their nutrition and their lifestyle habits, we see, you know what, you're sitting around a lot more. When you were younger, you were out with your friends, you are running around after kids, you were going all sorts of places and now you've got work, you've got, you know, raising kids, you're looking after elder parents and you're sitting around a lot more. And you're also probably not eating as well as maybe you could or used to. Probably a lot of people are drinking more alcohol because now we can afford it as opposed to when we were young, couldn't afford going out and drinking. And all those things add up to weight gain.

Also very critical that I want people to hear too because yes, you're right, the research does support now that it's after 60 that it slows down. However, just losing muscle, just losing muscle is going to slow down your metabolism. So it's like the cause and the effect. So basically what I'm hearing you say and what the research is really supporting is it's not just the age, it's the loss of muscle that comes with age if you don't combat it. So that can create that. And when just from the type of training I know that CrossFit is and, and I'm assuming this is what you would, you would align with. It's just that idea of pushing yourself and progressively training, like progression, like loading, whether that's CrossFit or something else is going to help you to maintain and grow muscle. So you're going to combat it.

That's right, yeah, a hundred percent. And I think this is again another issue that women particularly come up against. Certainly in my generation there was no strength training. Growing up there was no such thing for but into the Jane Fonda era and then beyond that it was all about the high reps at lightweight. So that you can tone. And I know I've seen posts that you had about toning and what that means, and it's hilarious because toning basically means having muscle show up, which means build the muscle and lose the fat and it'll show up. But the problem is women have got it into their heads that for women, we should not be lifting that heavy. You know, we should sort of maybe do the 15 reps thing, maybe pick up the 15 pound dumbbells. And when people ask me, so how do you train? And I tell them what my deadlift or my squat or clean and jerks. I do the Olympic lifting too, they're all looking at me like, oh my God, are you crazy? But you don't look very big. Well, but I'm not, you know, I'm obviously muscular, but if you saw me walking down the street, I would look like a fairly normal, probably reasonably fit person. And that's the fear that women have of lifting heavy is one injury, obviously, and two, just getting really bulky. A lot of women our age still think that way, which is so crazy.

Because I know how hard it is to grow muscle.

So it's like, if you only knew.

Like how hard like a bodybuilder or fitness competitor works to grow that muscle, like you wouldn't.

And the nutrition, all the nutritional hoops they have to jump through with the bulking and the cutting and the. Yeah, you know, I'm, I'm piling in protein every day. And I do take creatine as well because it's been shown that that supports great muscle growth. And I lift really heavy, like, you know, 230 pound deadlifts. And I still, I still don't look anything like the, even the women in CrossFit. Who are my idols? Right.

Two questions that are coming up for me that are equally as important. I want to know what do you advise? Because, because some women are going to hear, okay, I've got to lift heavier. And I don't, I don't want them to think they should go out and try to deadlift £250.

No, no, no.

What can speak into that? And people that have injuries and do you have any injuries? And like, how do you work around that? And then I have a question about nutrition here and the protein comment that you made, so I'll come to that second.

Okay, so yeah, injuries are tough. I don't really have injuries. And I think this is where you have to sort of chat with people that you're working with. What do you mean by an injury? I have tightness for sure. I'm working my muscles really Hard. So the number one thing that I've really stepped up on as I've been getting older is my mobility work. So that's the dynamic stretching and movement through a range of motion with no weights and that sort of thing. That has helped immensely. So the stretching has helped to keep the injuries at bay. When I feel something really tight, then I do extra mobility on that area. I haven't had anything really sideline me from doing the lifting. Sometimes if my hamstrings are really tight, I'll back off the weight a little bit. I'll still do the work, but I'll back it off to where it feels okay for me. So, yeah, I would say to people, it's that mentality of don't accept, don't settle. Yeah, you have to. You have to read your body. You have to get to know your body and know when it's tight and what to do about that. The mobility work versus when you've got, like, real pain.

I love that answer because for me, I'm like an injury queen. I mean, I've had torn bicep, no disc between L5S1. And I still work out, but this is what I want to want to share. Like, for instance, I have no disc right now between L5S1. It completely ruptured out. I had emergency surgery. I had foot drop, the whole thing a couple years, several years ago. And right away, you know, people would think, well, you can't squat, you can't deadlift, you can't do all these things. No, actually, when you squat or deadlift correctly, like when you're fully engaging your glutes and doing it the way you should be, not your lower back, it actually takes your lower back out of the equation and it feels great. So it's like, I think there's a. There's a functional dynamic that's really critical for people to learn, too, because just because you have an actual injury or something in a spot, it doesn't mean that working out or doing an exercise is going to affect that when you do it correctly. I had somebody message the time of this recording today. Someone messaged my team this morning saying that they were asking if I had weight workouts versus body weight because their wrist hurt when they do things I teach, like planks. And what went to my head initially was, your wrist hurts when you're doing a plank because you're not doing a plank correctly. Because if you're doing a plank correctly and engaging your glutes and your core and all the things you shouldn't put all the pressure on your wrists. So I think that. And you probably innately think this way, Deborah. I'm assuming that like it's not. When we have, when we look at injury, you've got to look at the whole body because by activating the correct muscles around it, that injury might come out of the equation.

Yes. And you know, everything is connected in our body. Right. When you think you have a lower back or a knee injury, it actually might be your lower back or your hip. Yeah, I could be your hip. Yeah. I mean, I dislocated my shoulder lifting my first serious injury ever. I did dislocate my shoulder back in March and I just did a whole load of lower body stuff until I was cleared to do the upper body stuff. I did one side. But the point is that you should be able to adapt. Right. You learn why that happened and you learn not to do it again, obviously. So most injuries are a function of bad form or going heavier than maybe you're ready for. So that's the advice I would. You, you, and you said it earlier, was the progression. I mean you don't start off trying to deadlift 200 pounds. You start off with 50 or 40 or whatever it is you can manage. Yeah. And then you build up from there and that's how you minimize the risk. There's always a risk of injury, but you can minimize it.

By the way, like I did, my glutes are pretty strong and I deadlift like very. A lot less than you. I mean I'll. I'll have like two 45 plates max.

So.

And I.

And it's. But it's still heavy.

But it's. But I'll still. But even I could even go deadlift, honestly with like a 25 pound dumbbell. And. But because I'm using my mind and really thinking through where I want to activate and what's create what I'm creating there, I'll do it. I'll get that same workout. So I think there's a lot in our mind connection too, versus what we're actually lifting. If you're focused on what you're squeezing and what you're activating.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Okay. My question about diet now, because this is a topic that I think you and I are very aligned with that a lot of people are not. And about protein and I want to talk about that because I know for me I tend to try to eat pretty much my body weight and protein a day. So I'm curious about you and if you could talk through that, yes.

Well, I actually try to eat more than my body weight because I am lifting very heavy. So my body weight's about 128 pounds.

We're exactly the same where the age. Yeah, that's exactly what I am.

Yeah.

But how tall are you? I'm curious, are you?

I'm five three.

Okay. I'm five two. So we're good.

Oh my gosh. Twins. Twins. But I eat about 150.

Okay. So you're eating a lot more protein than me even. That's good.

Yeah, well I think, I think I need to because when I'm working often in 3 rep max range of weight. So that's why I'm deadlifting, you know, 25 to 30.

Okay.

And when you're lifting really heavy it's advisable if, you know, assuming you want to keep getting stronger, advisable to go over that 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. Of course everybody's different but yeah, I eat about 150 of protein. I do eat a lot of carbs as well because CrossFit. Well me personally, I need carbs. I really need a lot of carbs. I must kind of like what.

Because when people hear carbs they hear muffins, cookies. They also hear. Oh I know, what are your, what are your carbs?

My go tos are, well always lots of vegetables. But you know, I don't see vegetables as my carbs. For me carbs are things like rice, sweet potato. Yes. I eat bread. I love bread. I mean bread is life for me. Sourdough. So I'll eat the bread, the rice, sweet potatoes, regular potatoes, pasta sometimes. The key for me is portion sizes. I am on about 275 grams of carbs a day, so quite a bit. But I eat them around my workout sort of period. So if I'm working out at 9 in the morning, my breakfast is heavy on carbs. My post workout food is heavy on carbs and protein obviously. And then my lunch, I'm having quite a few carbs as well. But then as the day wears on the carbs other than vegetables get less and less and less.

Got it. So that's, that's how I do fruit carbs too. And do you ever have processed besides bread?

Oh yes. Yeah. I love fruit berries mostly. I'm not, I'm not as big a fruit eater as vegetables. Just purely, I don't know, I'm not a super sweet tooth processed stuff. Of course I do. I, you know we have protein pancakes in the morning which is Comes from a box. You know, stuff like that.

You don't really subscribe to the CrossFit way of eating. You don't do, like, the paleo way that they teach that a lot of the CrossFit teaches.

No. And I think. I think the CrossFit community as a whole is becoming more representative of the average society, which is. Everybody's got their thing. Of course, Paleo is a bit more common. No, I don't really. I don't like any way of eating that asks you to eliminate an entire food group. I don't believe in that. I think it's creates a really bad relationship with food, especially for women who have issues in that area. Anyway, here's what I want.

I want people to hear. They're listening to you because this is really important. There's a distinction here, because some people are going to hear, oh, pasta, rice, bread, lots of carbs. But listen to how hard she works out, because you can't. That does. If you did not work out, that would not work. And you know that.

No, no, it does. It wouldn't. And for me, you know, I think my metabolism is a little different to other people. Does that mean that I can just go crazy on carbs? No, I'm very specific. I do track my food. Not obsessively, but I do track it. And I do not go over that amount to 75. And I do eat it around my workout, which, you know, scientifically shown to be the optimal time to take in your carbs now. And I try not to. Sorry. I try not to eat the processed carbs. Yeah. Like, the majority of it is the sweet potato stuff and the rice. Yeah, yeah.

How do you get. What is your. Is your protein a combination of real food protein? Is it protein powders? Like, how do you figure that? What do you do there? Because I find myself trying to get in, you know, 120 grams of, like animal protein is. Doesn't. It's always hard for me, like, I have to add in some scoops of protein or something. I'm curious about you.

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's really hard, you know, it's. And. And also if you're trying to keep fat grams under control too. Right. It's hard to eat real food protein. So I try as much as possible. I have probably about one to two scoops of protein powder a day, and that's split up. I love my protein.

Do you use whey or do you use something else?

Whey. Yeah, I use unflavored whey. I like to control the flavors in my protein. But, you know, I have some of it in my coffee. I have protein coffee and I have a protein shake after my workout, which is just the protein powder and banana and cocoa and just natural stuff. And then the rest of it. I do try and eat the animal protein, but I may end up with like Greek yogurt, the plain Greek yogurt with a little more protein powder in it and some cocoa powder and chocolate chips in the evening as my dessert. So, yeah, there's a little bit of the powder stuff, but I can't force enough meat into me.

So talk to me about your fats too, because this is another thing we might actually align on, which is really interesting because not a lot of people, because it's so trendy right now to be keto and to be like these high fat diets. And I don't, I think especially in our age group, this gets very dangerous. We get very high on calories. This is not to be taken lightly. Like, this is, this is. People are looking at kind of like when we remember years ago, like in the 90s, the 80s 90s, if it was fat free, we just thought we could eat like gummy bears. Like, oh, it's gummy bears. They're fat free. That's kind of what's happening with this keto world, though. People are like, oh, it's keto. I can have as much as I want. But you're getting so many calories when you start loading with fat like that.

Yeah, I, again, I don't subscribe to any eating plan that asks you to cut out an entire food group, especially fruit. I mean, ridiculous. Yeah. I think that the problems with keto are that, that you're basically creating this weird relationship with food mentally. Keto is great. You know, it might work for people who have epilepsy and who are not very active. That's. Those are the two diabetics.

I would say maybe diabetics.

Yeah. And diabetics. Yep. But I think one of this, this also connects with that mentality that you see out there on Instagram too, that if it's good fats, like avocados and, you know, whatever else, it's okay. I'm going to have a whole avocado with my meal. The point is you need to keep a track of these things. Whether they're good fats or not, you still need to be eating the right amount because as you said, you'll start to climb up there in the calories, the fat calories and a calorie is a calorie. I believe in that very strongly. Some calories are more nutritionally useful than others, but I take in what. I take in about 65 grams of fat a day. That's about 25%, because I'm on about 2300 calories a day. And, you know, it takes a little bit of work to keep it under what I would normally eat. Like, I can't have three whole eggs.

You know, or having, like, a handful of nuts. Like, I was doing that for a long time because I guess, like, the nuts. And I'm realizing, oh, my gosh, that adds up so quickly.

That's the classic one that a lot of my clients are like, well, I have nuts with fruit. I'm like, that's awesome. But how big is the handful?

Yeah. Is it a table? Yeah.

So I think that's why I love the macro tracking, because you. You bet. You can have your nuts, but then you might have to adjust another time in the day because your fat grams are a little higher. And, you know, dinner might be, you know, some beef or something that maybe has a bit more fat, too. So, you know, it's just data. It really is. I mean, it's not obsessive. But, yes, you do have to watch fat. And I do not like keto at all.

No, no. And I cringe when I hear these people talking about keto being the answer for everyone, because I think it. I honestly think it can work temporarily for a lot of people. But I will say, especially in our age group, I'm seeing, like, reverse, like, worse issues from being on that. And I'll tell you, even when I was leaning more towards keto, my blood work stuff was crazy. Like, I couldn't believe, like, markers changed heart, all the things. So I'm like, I. That's. I'm not subscribed to that at all.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

I really back down on fats after that.

So.

Okay, so this is. This is interesting. What do you want women to know? Like, I want. What do you. If you're talking to. Because the majority of my listeners are our midlife, what do you want them? And I've got some men listening, but what do you want women to know about aging and what. Like, knowing what you know now, like, if you could kind of tell women stepping into this or struggling, like, what do you want them to know from you?

I. I think it goes back to what I said about having that mindset of not settling for what everybody else tells you. Midlife is supposed to be like, you know, oh, it's all over once you hit 40. And even your kids tell you that, right? Oh, well, you know, that's really old.

Yeah. And I have a 15 year old.

You know, I'm like, yeah, I. Yeah, I have a 16 year old. And, you know, the thing is, you should live your life the way that you hope that it can be. So if you want to be, if you feel like you're a little crazy and you've got lots of life left in you, then do the things that your body allows you to and that your personality allows you to. If you want to try. CrossFit. Don't let what others say put you off. Don't. Don't let them say, oh, you'll get injured because you're old, or you'll be the oldest one in the gym or you'll.

Whatever.

I mean, I did a silly reel on being the oldest woman at the gym and people loved it because it's like, yeah, of course. Why wouldn't you go? Yeah, so. So that's the message. It's like, you know, I still feel like I'm in my 20s. Yeah, I still feel ready to take on a whole bunch of things. Not every day. Some days are worse than others. But that's the first message is just go out there and do what you hope you can do and that your body allows you to do. And the second thing is don't let setbacks, because there are many of them in midlife. Don't let health and physical and mental or life setbacks keep you down. Like I said, the alternative is accepting it and just sliding into this horrible decline to the point where you feel like, oh, this is awful, my life is awful. Or you can just adapt, try something else. If you're injured, well, then work out the other body parts as much as you can and go seek out, you know, expert opinions on why the injury happened. I'm shocked at how many people have bad knees and they're like, well, I can't work out. Well, have you been to a physio? Well, no, but just, you know, go and fight. You know, actually fight for your health. Fight for your I am with you enjoyment big time.

I couldn't believe how many doctor, even doctors, told me, like, that I had to give up certain things because of injuries. And I was like, no, I'm gonna figure it out. Like, it's.

Go get a second opinion.

Yeah, in the tradition, like, I get it. Like, yeah, if you're doing the wrong form and you're doing things like that, that Wouldn't make sense for me. But if you're. You actually correctly learn how to use your body. Your body's very adaptable. You can work around for sure. I believe so. This is so. Okay, everyone, you've got to go follow. Is your Instagram your main platform?

It is, yeah. I have a website, but most of it goes up on Instagram.

So you've got to follow her on Instagram. I just love following her and like watching her. She's fun. She shows great things. Like, it's fun watching her format, her form, everything, but it's stronger underscore movement. So it's S T r o n G r underscore movement. Follow her on Instagram. If you. If you loved this episode, you know, share. Tag us both so we can see and we can say hi to you. But this is so good, Deborah, thank you so much for being here. How do you. How do you want people to find you to go to your website, go to Instagram? Where do you want them to find you and learn more?

Yeah, yeah, just. Just hop onto Instagram. I post pretty much everything on there and I'm working on my YouTube channel and some online courses and some strength training via an app. So it'll all be announced on. On Instagram. So follow me there. Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Well, thank you. I. This was so fun. I hope that all your listeners out there learned something and got some inspiration or at least some motivation. So I hope it works for everybody and that they all get out there and do something really amazing in their midlife.