Do We Need to be Worried About EMFs with Nick Pineault

Today on Midlife Conversation, we are talking emf. You've probably heard emf. Maybe you know a little bit about it, maybe you know a lot about it. But I have a lot of questions about emf. How much we need to be taking this seriously. How much of it is just not that serious? Do we need to be concerned? Do we not be concerned? So I went on a search for who is the EMF expert? Who do I need to talk with? I actually asked my friend Laura Frontero, who I've had on the podcast many times, and she said, I've gotta have Nick. He's the EMF guy. So I have Nick Pino here. Pino. Did I pronounce that right? I think I did. I asked him beforehand. Okay, Pinot here. And he is going to be helping us here. He is the number one bestselling author of the Non Tinfoil Guide to EMF and an advocate for safe technologies. So I cannot wait to dive into this with you. I know you've got some unconventional approaches with this, and I really am excited to talk to you. So thank you for being here today.

Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.

So, Nick, let's. Nicholas, let me start. Can I call you Nick? Or are you Nicholas? Do you like. Which one do you like better?

Nick is fine. Yeah.

Okay.

Both is fine. No problem.

Okay. Okay, Nick, tell me a little bit about how this even became something for you. Were you having issues with emf? What got you interested in this? Were you feeling it? Were you one of the people that just are super sensitive to it? How does this become a topic that you became an expert in?

Um, it really, you know, it appeared to me out of nowhere, seemingly. I was really focused on other types of environmental toxins that might, in fact impact our hormones or stress us or, you know, cause problems that we don't necessarily think about. This is when I got into learning about plastics, about pesticides in our food, and other environmental toxins. And in 2015, I started reading a few books claiming that, you know, cell phones might be linked with brain tumors. And that's something I had heard here and there in T. Maybe T mainstream TV news. And the link was not really clear in my mind, but something I. I learned then is that there's a strong reason to think that the EMF signals emitted by a cell phone is not only a risk for brain tumors, it's also a risk to your hormones. So there are more short term considerations to take think about when it comes to this type of wireless radiation. But what surprised me the most is that to this day health regulatory agencies such as Health Canada and Canada or the FCC in the US continue to claim that these exposures do nothing to the human body. They do claim that, but they get it wrong for many, many toxins. So my, let's say my citizen journalist hat was on and I dove right into this topic and and ended up publishing a book on the topic in 2017. And to this day, years later, I still have a lot of research to uncover and it's still a, you know, a very exciting area of research. And most of the public still hasn't heard about these risks. So that's why I'm getting on podcasts and trying to spread the word.

Okay, so help me understand here because I am one of those people who is so slowly embracing that this is definitely a problem. And here, let me just back up a minute. The place I first noticed this was I love to hike. I'm a big hiker, I love to get out there in nature. And I started to see that sometimes when I'm really off the beaten path, I feel different, I feel calmer, I feel more clear headed and I just put it in this lump before of oh, it's because I'm outside in nature, I'm moving my body. But I started to realize it's not always that way on all my hikes. And the difference is if I'm in a very, very remote area away from all the things and I don't have a cell phone and I'm not around things, I was feeling different. So this is what started opening my eyes to okay, maybe there really is something to this EMF thing. And I understand that some people are sensitive and some people are not. So I want to ask you about that. But I started to notice that I actually feel different. I feel less stressed, I feel calmer. It's like less of a cortisol situation. It's just from being away from EMFs. So then I got nutty and I bought one of those testers and I started like going all around my house and like where is it strong? Where is it not strong? And it was really eye opening for me. So I wanted to ask you about that. Like first of all, does everybody feel EMF or is this not an everybody thing?

Well, I think it's an issue for everyone, but not everyone will feel these effects right away. So for example, a classic example is some people get headaches when they talk on the phone. So that tells you right there that it's not all people, but some People have an effect that is, you know, it's not just psychological, it's physiological. They get a headache. So most people who do get a headache from their cell phone exposure would start using speakerphone naturally or maybe use wired solutions, which is good because again, the cell phone might be linked with increase in brain tumors risk. So why, why take chances? But the fact is that everyone will still have these brain tumor risks regardless of if you feel a headache or not. Right. So it's a poor indicator. Those symptoms are a poor indicator of what might be happening behind the scenes. Not a lot of people feel the chemicals in their food either. Right. You don't necessarily feel tingling in the mouth. That would give you an indication, oh, there's arsenic in your fruit juice. No, it's just that over time, your body has to process these things. The with EMS is different. It's not something you have to, that is stored into the body like toxins. It's not something you have to excrete. But it, it is a stressor. And the problem is when you are exposed to these EMFs all day, every day, over time, then it causes the problem. It's not necessarily a thing where I would say, you know, if you're, you're exposed to, to emfs on a Monday afternoon and you have a short call, it's not an issue. But over a lifetime, this is really where we see most of the damage happens.

Okay, how close or far does things. Do things need to be to affect us? And then are things like, I have this thing on the back of my phone. Is that a gimmick? Is this real? Like I'm that sucker that I see an ad, you know, help eliminate EMFs put on the back of your phone. I don't know if it's actually working or not.

Yeah. The most dangerous EMF exposures are from devices that are touching your body, literally. So touching the ear. We know that it's linked in the data with an increase in tumor risks. And I see tumor risk to the head. A lot of people don't talk on the phone these days, even among the younger generation. But also my generation, I'm 36, we don't use the phone to call that much. But what we do instead is keep the phone in the pocket. That's not better because now you're just exposing other organs to this radiation at levels that are quite intense. But what scientists have found is that you know about endocrine disruptors. I know that many. You probably talk about it, about those in and out every day on Your podcast. Well, this cell phone radiation is also a sort of endocrine disruptor. And that's not something that is necessarily easy to wrap your head around because it's not a molecule. But these exposures have effects that are equivalent. Equivalent. And the best research we have is in men. But the same applies to women as well, because the best research we have is around sperm count and sperm quality that goes down when men have a phone in the pocket. And for sure it's easier to study men fertility compared to women. Overall, it's way more costly to do so in women. That's why we have less data. But we do have data around women fertility as well. And it's not just fertility, it's also hormonal balance. So there's good reasons to think that if you keep a cell phone to your pocket in your body, you're impairing your hormonal balance. But another risk that has been identified specifically for women is the risk of breast cancer that might go up if you keep a phone in your bra. And that's a very practice. I, you know, I, I cannot encourage.

People to do hiking. I would like stick it like that. Yeah, we, well, exactly.

So if you, if you, if you put it in your bra, it's not necessarily a problem if it's on airplane mode and not that downloading something. Right. So not streaming, for example, songs. So what you could do is pre download these songs on Spotify and just, you know, pre download them offline. So that way you can keep your phone on airplane mode while still listening to podcasts or Spotify or apps like that. So it can be done. It's just, you know, a change of habits in that case. Yeah, that's, that's really the, the greatest dangers are very close to the phone. And I wouldn't say that the stickers. So far I haven't found anything where I would feel confident that these dangers go away with the stickers. Some of them, some of these technologies are seem quite, you know, snake oil salesman type things.

That's what I was wondering. And they're expensive.

So it's like, yeah, I felt, to be fair, some of them seem to have some merits, but it's a reduction of effect, not a complete cancellation of effect. So I would not feel good telling women listening to this, oh, put it in your bra. You have a chip on the back of your phone, you're completely safe. I don't feel good with that. So instead, you know, a change of habit. And if you have these chips, why not? They Might help, but scientists are currently not endorsing any of these technologies. That's.

So it's very. This is a marketing opportunity. A lot of them so far.

A lot of them.

Okay, so. So I want to understand. So. So the big thing with EMF is you're concerned about tumors, you're concerned about endocrine disruptors, you are concerned about this, obviously, so messing up our hormones there. And then it's affecting fertility. There's a lot of things that are associated with this. And what you're saying is it's not necessarily the device creating the issue, it's the downloading of it. It's the being connected to WI fi. Did I hear that correctly?

Yes, it's the emf. So the electromagnetic field that are emitted by the phone that are a problem. The largest amount of exposure that has increased in the last few decades is the wireless communications. The communication between your phone and a wifi router or your phone and a cell phone antenna. Right. A lot of people don't necessarily think about these exposures because things are kind of magic these days. Oh, I don't know. I pick up my phone and it connects somewhere. And then I hear my grandma who lives in India. How magic is that? Well, there is something there that links invisibly your phone to the tower. And this is really this signal that can be quite strong, especially if you keep it on your person. Then you have all that energy deposited to those cells around the phone, which is leading, for example, to problems in DNA repair or problems in detoxification of the cells or a lowering of energy production of the cells. So all this equals is, you know, a sort of noise on the cells that are very close to the phone. And over time, again, tumors don't develop in a day or in a week, but over years of exposure. There have been some case reports of women developing, for example, breast tumors almost in the shape of a cell phone, to be honest, in a quadrant of the breast that is quite unusual for breast tumors to appear in. So. So just just because of that. I think taking precautions while the science is. Continue to evolve is a great idea. But something that is less carried than cancer, and I think it deserves a discussion, is just sleep quality. Right. If you're trying to maintain health as you age or just maintain health in. In general, you want to sleep as soundly as you can. And none of us get enough sleep. That's just a fact of life. We're just busy with, you know, careers, kids. Everything else in between is difficult to get. Eight to nine Hours per night. I don't get that. And so why not get the best sleep possible? So turn off your phone or put it on airplane mode before going to sleep. Because, again, there are some very, very good studies on how your phone might interfere with your brain waves. And what this means is the brain naturally emits emfs, and you need certain brain waves in order to have the best sleep possible. Your brain literally goes, you know, an entire set of different stages during your sleep, and your brain waves will change accordingly. If you have an external source of emfs, it can confuse the brain and lead to, let's say, an onset or delay or a delay in your sleep quality. So in certain studies, 30 minutes of exposure to the head was sufficient to have people become insomniac for one hour. But the reality is, even these researchers acknowledge that some people are more sensitive than others. So in the case of some people, they literally realize that their cell phone, if it's on and it's emitting these ems, it keeps them awake. If it's off, they're fine, you know.

So close or far. So, like, so, like, I don't keep my cell phone next to my head when I sleep. I put it in another room. Is that okay? Or does it still need to be on airplane mode?

In another room is perfectly fine. And I understand, especially if you have teenage kids and there's, you know, they're becoming adults and you want to be on call in. A lot of people have, do not have these corded landlines. In fact, they're being ruled out as we speak. They're being uninstalled in most cities and states in the US and same thing is true here in Canada. So the reality is that many parents want to be on call. So put it in the next room, charge it in the next room, and it's fine. And it's really the proximity, I would say within one to two feet of the pillow is really the danger zone, so to speak, where it's going to impact your sleep the most.

But so if it is next to your bed like that, you just want it in airplane mode.

That's the airplane mode. The WI fi turned off and Bluetooth turned off.

Okay, what about the stuff in our house, aside from cell phones? So, like, laptops, the WI fi router, like, all of those things, and like, even an OURA ring, like I've been told you should turn off the Bluetooth on that. Like, how much do we need to be looking at all those things? And where else is EMF hiding?

Good. Good question. I would first look at any EMF exposure you might have in the bedroom just because of this, because sleep quality is such a huge deal and that when people do that, everything else gets better in their life, including their hormones, including their mood, their energy level. So what else is in your bedroom? Well, it might be laptops that are open. It might be your Bluetooth alarm clock. Just try to think about anything that could be wireless. It should be all turned off while you sleep. So that's step one. So thing you just.

Quick question on that. So like my husband, he sleeps with, he literally sleeps with headphones on, his aura ring, his watch that is like Garmin watch. Like so all that stuff needs to be turned off or he's. That's just totally loading him up with that. Is that correct?

Yeah, that's correct. And it's very inconvenient these days. You know, I do use the Oura ring to track my sleep, but it's always on airplane mode. And what is especially genius about the aura is that it can store the data in the ring. There's a hard drive in there that I don't know how they do it, but they do. It's miniature, it's very, very small, but it stores the data in the ring. And the only time you can get it out of airplane mode to sync it with Your phone is one 5 minute bout in the morning. So you don't have to expose yourself all the time. And it's really, to me, it's kind of silly that the technology is built in a way that multiple times per second your phone will receive data from your ring. You, you don't need to, you know, it's stressful to track your stress in real time, isn't it? To me, I just turned it off.

Literally as you're talking to me, I'm like, what? Why is my.

Yeah, well, exactly. You don't. Most people don't need it. And the reality is that these are avoidable exposures that we don't really need. Right. So when it comes to Garmin watches, for example, this Garmin watch I use for my runs is GPS and everything. The Bluetooth is off. You can turn it on when you need it or things like that. But personally I just keep it off because I don't use it as a smartwatch. But you know, headphones. I know a lot of people will hate this part, but the reality is I don't advocate, I don't like Bluetooth technology to the head because again, you know, we have these cancer risks. We're seeing in cell phone users. And then you replace the phone with a Bluetooth earpiece that emits essentially the same type of radiation.

So.

So I think that in the future, in the next few decades, they're going to be considered the same. And they're almost declared a carcinogen at this point because of the risk of brain tumor. So I wouldn't play with that. And if you use them from time to time, that's okay, but that's not how most people are using them these days. It's, you know, 12, 16 hours per day. I would avoid that as much as I can. Especially if you're at the office and you're in one spot. I'm doing this interview right now. There's no reason to have wireless, right?

No, I have like, like I have you. What you have on. I have the plug in.

Exact. So if you're doing a workout and you didn't need them, well, it's a short amount of time. But after you're, you're back at the office or you're home, if you can deal a little bit with the annoyance of the tangling and the wires, it's good for your health. That's.

But here's what I'm also hearing from you. If you're plugging in this kind to the phone, but then you're wearing the phone on your body, unless it's in airplane mode, you're still creating an issue.

Yes. So it's complicated, isn't it? But you can use certain cases also if you keep it on your person. One company I like is shield your body. They offer certain solutions that will shield the phone and make sure that the radiation is reflected away from your body if you have it in your pocket, for example. But many women don't have pockets, so that's another issue. There are certain sling bags you can purchase. There are certain things you can purchase for your handbag as well from that company.

They have.

Yes, exactly. So there are certain solutions. Just using a handbag for. Rather than using a pocket, you know, is, is. Is a better thing because you're creating separation from your body. It's not necessarily touching you. And you put it maybe on the, on the side that is towards the exterior. So that way there's like, you know, a cushion and it's not touching you directly.

Okay. I also noticed going around our house with that device that checks, I would notice like, like for instance, the light by our bed, a really strong, really strong reaction. But then when we moved it like two feet away, it didn't have that same reaction. So you can just move things too. Right? Is that, that. Am I understanding that right? How like. And like the case. What about things outside, like towers and stuff? Like, how much is that affecting us or not affecting us?

Well, they, they sure are affecting us. Except this is difficult to find the, you know, the, the onoff switch on them. Right. So it's, it's not like we can change all these exposures, which is why most of the message that is. That is communicated by scientists is really to take care of your own devices first. And you mentioned the laptop, and I kind of glanced over it. I want to go back to laptop because it's often a source of exposure, especially in people who put their laptop on the lap. Right. So imagine if a cell phone is disruptive to your hormones, if it's on your lap. The same thing can be true for the laptop because these exposures are quite strong and will impact your hormones negatively. So I know it's a habit that is hard to shake up for some people, but at least use something for separation. There are certain platforms that are EMF shielded that are sold that shield your body that, you know, can do the trick, but ideally put it on a table quite simply.

Got it.

So I know it's not the same thing as the sofa. Maybe it's your favorite spot. But again, I, I just don't like the fact that many people are exposed for. It's not one, you know, per week. It is, it's for extended periods of time, especially if you're an entrepreneur or someone who works from home. And these days, it's most people who end up having these exposures for long periods of time every single day.

I think it sounds like, I mean, I can speak for myself and pretty much everyone I know, I think the cell phone's probably the biggest culprit. I mean, that and the earbuds. Because we all are carrying that, walking it. I mean, I just think about, I was hiking yesterday and like, it's right on me, you know, and then I got the earbuds, so I'm getting like double the situation there. So how do we. First of all, can we rewind it? I mean, I. Obviously it sounds like we can do things to prevent and be aware, but is the damage done? Like some of us, it's been five plus years of doing this.

That's a big question. We don't have the answer. You know, all we know is that I think it's. It's like smoking in a sense. I mean, can we can you rewind the damage you've done by smoking or eating junk food before you knew how to eat better? Well, I don't know if you can rewind, but you can change, right? So it's the same thing for EMFs. I think some of the damage is probably not repairable, although in, in many cases people start feeling better and sleeping more soundly when they start, when they, they start reducing their exposure. So it's really the message here. You know, I don't think it's, it's never too late to change your habits and try to do your best now that you know better.

Got it. That makes sense, your analogy about smoking. So it's just like it's changing. But, but I am wondering like you're like you're saying this could be a huge epidemic in 5 years, 10 years of people coming out with this especially. This is not talked about enough. I mean, I think just even the name of your, your book, like people just put it in the tinfoil hat category. Like, this is, they sound crazy and that's, it's so interesting. So, but I didn't. And then you're just, like you said, there's the opportunity is putting these little things on the back of phone saying that this is gonna, you know, fix it and that's not gonna do a thing.

It sounds like, yeah, that's true. And you mentioned epidemic. You know, I've been talking to certain doctors who do believe there's an epidemic of electrosensitivity. And it's, it starts with maybe sleep disruption, but eventually some people feel anxiety OCD from these exposures. Some people even get skin rashes or skin issues related to these exposures. So it can become a sort of long term allergic reaction in the worst cases. But they're seeing more and more of these people and most of them are women. Unfortunately, it looks like women are more sensitive than men. I don't know if that's genetics or something like that, but unfortunately. So it looks like it's more electro sensitivity in women compared to men, but the reality is that all of them are becoming more sensitive with time and probably because the body is overwhelmed by these different exposures. So in the case if, if you already are listening to this and you say, yeah, for sure, I'm, I'm impacted. I, I feel it. I don't feel good near WI Fi. And it means that you need to do even more in order to get better. Right? It's like people who are affected by mold and they become allergic to mold, eventually they become Mold, toxic. You have to get out of the environment. So it's in a sense these people that are EMF sensitive need to do even more. And this is when these people must go in nature more often. Disconnect, take weekends off and go off the grid. And it's good for everyone, but even better for people who are starting to feel the effects of this electropollution in cities. And some people I've connected with are from LA or large cities and they tell me, wow, once I get out of the city at a certain distance, I feel so much better. And it's not just the air pollution, it's also the electrical pollution that we tend to.

That makes sense. That's what I think I experience when I'm. When I'm hiking or when I'm someplace. That makes total sense. So now you have me thinking about the cell phone stuff and where else we're bringing that cell phone and could that be multiplying? So I'm just thinking of things like, like if you bring it in your. I bring mine in my sauna. Like, what does that create if you're bringing a cell phone that's on in your sauna where you're now adding heat to it could. Does EMF get worse with things like that? Does it make no difference? Like what's your. Or is your stance? Just make sure you have airplane mode.

Yeah, on airplane mode it wouldn't be a big deal. But you know, if you bring it in your sauna, it's just, I think it's just a source of stress. And if you're trying to relax, it's pretty much the, the opposite of relaxation. A cell phone, I think that the impact is a sort of stress that is keeping your nervous system riled up. So it's not just some people think it's just the notification or the fact that social media is making us addicted and kind of neurotic about it. It's also the emf. So the signals it emits is not only addictive, it's also something that is quite. Acts like a stimulant, almost like keeping us awake. And that's why it interferes with sleep. So if you're doing, you know, yoga, meditation, sauna, it's probably a very good idea to put it on airplane mode. If it's near you or even you're listening to meditation tracks, try to find certain apps that allow you to turn off the antenna airplane mode while you're trying to calm down, or else you're, you know, you're using a Tool that is quite stressful in order to manage your stress. Which is a little bit ironic there.

No, it makes sense. I think people are blaming everything else but what you just said. And it's like every. People are fighting to not have to do that. But. And I get it because I'm right there with them. Wow, this is super eye opening. So. So if I just kind of recap on this. Just anyone's listening. The most critical place that we're getting this is from cell phones not being on airplane mode and being on our bodies. So not if it's more than two feet away. That could help. But just wearing it on our bodies. And then also the earbuds are one of. And the Bluetooth earphones in general you feel are just as harmful and dangerous and could be creating as big of a problem. And that most of these companies out there saying that they block EMF is pretty gimmicky. You're not convinced yet on those. But you said that there's one company, you said shield your body. Do you have a connection with them or do you do anything with them? So if we want to go check them out, it's connected. Or you just endorse them because you like them or what's your.

I like them. I use their products. I also act as an affiliate to them. There are. There's Defender Shield, another competitor that is, you know, there are good companies that do physical blocking and they're not the same companies that claim to do harmonization or almost subtle energy devices. And this entire realm of, you know, those chips and. Or pendants that you can wear, I think act on symptoms and that could be good for people that are extremely sensitive. But I don't consider them protection. That's really the difference.

Makes sense. And I have one on. Yeah. So. And it does feel different, but it's. I get what you're saying now. It might not be enough for that.

Yeah, yeah.

This has been great. Where can people find you? Learn more, read more. Where can they access you?

Sure. Everything about my education can be found@theemfguy.com including my book, my courses, and also my annual summit that I'm always putting together and inviting the public to watch interviews with the top scientists and doctors on that topic.

Thank you so much, Nick. Thank you.

Thanks for having me.