Fascia, Cellulite, and Recovery with Tamara Renee

Today on Midlife Conversations, I've got one of my friends, Tamara Renee, who I had to have on the show because we're talking about fascia therapy and a method behind that. And before you jump off and you're like, I don't know what that is, this is something I should listen to. If you are aging, which we all are, you want to hear this today, because Tamra is transforming how we age, how we feel when we age, not just how we look, but how we feel, feel as we age. Now, I met Tamara Renee years ago. She's always been a dedicated advocate for natural health and beauty. She has over 30 years of experience in this. If you're watching this on video, you're not going to believe your eyes because she's 61, and she just. You would not guess that she's 61. And when I met her two decades ago, I remember when I met you, Tamara, you were in your early 40s. And I remember being shocked that you were in your early 40s. Then you are literally aging in reverse. You are. You are aging in reverse.

And.

And she is one of the first people that had taught me about natural nutrition years ago. She was always cutting edge with that. But when I reconnected with her not too long ago, what was really fascinating to me was how well she has not just aged herself, but has helped clients age. And she really attributes this to not just her whole lifestyle, but this whole technology that she's gotten into with fascia. So I experienced a few treatments myself in her office, but she also does a lot of this virtually. And I've continued to dig and learn and experiment from what I'm getting from her on how this affects how we age. So thank you so much for being here today, Tamara.

Oh, my gosh, Nat. Thank you, dear.

So let's back up a minute. What the heck is fascia? And how did you discover getting into this? How did this start?

You know, it's so funny. Most people don't know what fascia is because it was only logged in our medical journals in 2006. So that is like. That's considered a newbie, right?

Yeah.

Asha is our connective tissue system. And the number one thing I want the audience to get today is because it's a continuous system, it has great impact on how we move and look, and it gives us some great heads up when we don't like how our body is getting stiffer, creating immobility or pain, constant pain, or an area of our body that's starting to change aesthetically. That we don't like. Those are little signals to us to actually learn more about our connective tissue system, fascia, and how can we restore that so that not only are we actually having great mobility in our body, but we're also getting the collagen production to the top layers of our skin when our fascia is healthy. Because fascia, when it's unhealthy, will have like what we call adhesions under the skin. So it's like having a little piece of scar tissue that we might not visually be able to see, but it's underneath our skin. And it's creating more of an issue now with like, mobility causing more pain, restriction of movement, and also weird things like cellulite bound areas, thick areas, cankles, you know, things like that that we can't really identify. Why is this happening? Where is this going south on my body and fascia when we're working somewhere in our connective tissue, it could be, I don't know, at our ankle. It can still help with mobility of our shoulders because the system weaves in and out of every single organ, wraps around every single tissue muscle fibers, and then bounds muscle fibers together. So it's actually what really gives our muscles the shape and the size, which is really good to think about because most of the time when we've been in the, in the, in the past, people would say you cannot spot trim. Correct.

Yeah, that's what people would say.

That's not true. Because fascia wraps around every single muscle fiber. You can actually work in that area treating your fascia more so to decrease the size in that area. Now every time we're making our body more beautiful, we're actually increasing the health of our circulation, our mobility, and our skin. So that magnitude of, of help, like the things that I love to really focus in in my practice are things that really give us the magnitude to change how we're experiencing life and how we're looking as we age. Right. The more impact, the more we'll be invested. Because it's like anything, you still have to do work.

Yeah.

There's still the action steps that need to be taken.

Now, most people fully understand that their nutrition and their activity level needs to change to age well, so they, so they grasp that. Or assuming if you're listening, you grasp that, how does this create another layer and where does this fall into the important spectrum? And why have we ignored it for so long?

Well, I think we ignored it because we didn't know it. Surgeons have been cutting through this system for years. And never having a name for it. Right. So when it was logged at 2006, it was logged as a stability and suspension system, meaning it creates all the stability in how we stand, and it has to have the flexibility for when we move and when we walk and when we go and reach and grab and have all of our movement in the day. Right. But it also creates more stability. And so many times in air, sorry, many areas of our body, it's spread out like hair fibers.

Okay.

And then there's areas of our body, for prime example, like our IT band, where it gets very linear and very strong and structured to help give our knees and our hips more stability. Now, when we're not using our biomechanics correctly, our posture, which you experience, I put through everyone a posture check, whether I'm working with them virtually or in person. Because if you're not standing right, then every second of the day, your body has, like, an earthquake going off inside. And it's your fascia system that's keeping the motion going and then tries to lock down to create the stability in your body. But that lockdown isn't a healthy lockdown. It's called an adhesion, which limits the mobility, which limits the blood supply getting to the surface, where we can get beautiful collagen production. And the healthier your fascia is, even the softer your skin gets. It's quite remarkable that you start seeing changes and feeling changes in your body as quick as the first two, three times that you've done it and certainly three weeks into it. So it's a. It's hard when we're going through changes in life for people to really get on board. And I just say, give it three weeks. If you've got three weeks in, you give it three weeks without a second guess. And by then, you will start noticing and experiencing the changes in your body.

Okay, I have a lot of questions here. So I'm understanding that working on fascia can change a lot of things as far as, like, our movement, our. How we experience pain, also the appearance, like cellulite sagging. You said bound areas. But circulation and texture. Like, you talk to me a lot about how it can change the texture of our skin. I want to understand a little bit more how that works and what we need to be doing to get that activated. Because in the world of beauty, as we know, there's so many products that are sold and supplements, and we were told, drink collagen, put collagen on, you take. How do supplements differ from the actual work? And then what needs to happen in this actual work to make this move the needle and to do, to change things.

Okay, very, very good question. So, you know, you and I both believe in quality of food, and you and I both have an understanding about inflammation and foods that cause inflammation. And we also both understand, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners, is that gut biome is extremely important for utilizing the nutrients that we take in. So we're talking about taking in proper hydration, we're talking about taking in nice collagen, we're talking about taking in foods that have got nice amino acids that help our body produce good fat fibers for muscles and everything like that as we age now. But if we can bypass the gut system and the utilization and the absorption and we go right to the tissue to bring the nutrients from the, from the deep down into our tissue to the top layers of our tissue and we didn't have to go through the gut system, we're going to get much better results. Now our fascia system is made up of two things, water and collagen. So what I do is I help the body produce that at high levels from working on the outside layers of the connective tissue system. And what I do encourage my clients to do is get that cellular hydration, which is much different than regular hydration, and get the good quality collagen products in your body so it can further help. We have to kind of, as we age, you have to get more diligent, more precise to what your body needs at that stage in the aging process. And so what I have learned is what I used to do at 50, I'm actually having to do almost double the amount of self care at 60 in order to maintain the same vitality and the beauty that I want to have. Now. I'm not experiencing, I'm not saying that I want to look like a 21 year old. I want to look like a naturally beautiful aging, well, 61 year old and 81 year old. Right. When I get to that point. And so I'm okay about saying I am going to give myself more self care now than ever, because in the aging process that's what we need to do. Yeah. And so I try to encourage my clients that get frustrated with that, like let the frustration go, get on board with it, just decide that you and your body deserve it. Now another thing that I want to mention about fascia, and it's another log in the journals, but that comes some years later. We're in 24 right now, so I think in probably 20 it was logged as our communication system. And it's where we house all of our emotions because it's the system that houses the nerves. So if you think about it, if the tissue is clogged and tight, it's constricting around all of those nerves. So if we've had a traumatic experience, or whether it be physical tripping in high heels at the corner car accident, or an emotional one like our dog we had to put down or something that was really traumatic to yourself, we hold all those in our, in our body, and we hold that in our, in our fascia system. So when we're actually improving the health of our fascist system, we're allowing for these stored traumas and emotions to come through and let our bodies release them. But we also get all of that circulation back into all those nerves, which means it has better ability to communicate to our whole body now because it's not clamped down and restricting the communication, which is also being, like I said, restricting blood supply, all of your circulation, Im creating more immobility issues and then harnessing and sticking that inflammation which causes pain. The body. Now all of that affects the beauty, the glow, the hydration of your skin, right?

Yeah. Okay, talk to me about how you told, you've told me like a few little things that I would have never thought of on my own. Like for instance, you said stop wearing leggings every day because you're restricting things. You told me to make sure I'm pinching my skin. What do those things do actually? And why should we be doing both of those things?

Okay. And this would be really good for our listeners to really listen up because these are easy things that they can do in their home every day of their life to help their health of their fascia system, which is going to help their body be even more beautiful. But when we squeeze and we pinch our system, what are we doing? We're bringing blood supply, okay? When we bring blood supply, it brings nourishment to the exterior of our skin. And then when it comes to the exterior skin, it's like grabs like a pac man. It grabs the, the, the toxins and flushes it through our lymph system and everything. Another great thing is when we squeeze and we let go the body naturally that does a hydration. It's like when we let go, water flushes to that area. And we love that because our body's supposed to glide, everything's supposed to move so that when we're moving, we've got the mobility move. Right? So the fascia is Helping us move and stabilize as we move. Now, if we've got the proper hydration there and we've got all of the. The ability to move all of that collagen and hydration gets reminded. Oh, that's right. I supposed to have more hydration in there. It's like that cellular memory. Right? Right. It's like when we used to go to the. Go to the gym and we said we have muscle memory when we kind of took a couple weeks off. Right. Go back, takes a couple times, we got the muscle memory and we get it back. Well, the same thing with the body. When we flush fluids in there, it reminds, oh, I'm supposed to be hydrated here. I'm supposed to glide all these strands of fibers, supposed to glide and help me as I move. And it's another reminder to the body. Now, I also think that a lot of times in our culture here, we've been taught, like, if you've got pain in your body to let it sit, sit, don't do anything with it. I don't have that same understanding for most things. Right. I got to be very careful. Like, you've got to be careful and responsible for your own body. However, if you've got a little tightness, the more soft and loving little pressure you can do and flushing you can do brings blood supply to that area, and that's what heals our body. You got to get that movement and blood supply there to heal it.

Now, what's the difference between and I want to go back to the legging question, because I still have that question about leaking, but it brought me to another question of what's the difference between massage and then getting into deep fascia?

Okay, so all of it helps. So if our listeners can realize, okay, whether they're getting a massage, rolling out, squeezing their body, not wearing tight tights, all of these things are going to help the health of their fascia. Okay, now hold it. I lost the question.

Not type how it's different than a massage. And also, why shouldn't we wear leggings?

Okay, so when we're thinking about our fascia again, remember I told you it's like strands of hair.

Okay.

So if we are pushing against it versus combing through it, aren't we going to be better off combing through it than we are pushing against it? If we've got a knot in her hair, pushing against it is not going to do so much.

Right.

Taking a comb and actually combing out those adhesions, which is the only thing cellulite is is an adhesion or a scar in our fascia connective tissue. So if I'm combing it out and using methods to comb it, then I'm going to get those knots out and the best blood supply and the best movement and then the best glowing skin after that.

And where I think people are doing the opposite with cellulite, they're like, there's cellulite. So I'm going to hide it and I'm going to compress it and wear leggings or something tight, right? So you're saying that's the opposite of what you should be doing right now.

Let's talk about tights and compression. Because compression, there's a space for that. Say you just get done with a great exercise and you've got a lot of, a lot of pressure in your legs. You want to actually put on stockings or put on something to help that flush through, right? Or if you're going to be on an airplane flight that you completely swell and you're up in that horrible recycled air and then you can use those things to help your body create the circulation on a regular, everyday basis. You want loose fitting clothes so that your body can move and circulate. So one of the things about fascia are superficial. We've got deep layers of fascia and we've got superficial. Our deep layers of fascia is what is around all of our muscle strands and what weaves in and out of our, our organs.

Okay?

Superficial fascia lays in the same line as our lymph fluids. So our lymph fluids is part of our circulation that pulls out all the edema, all the debris and filters it through. Right? So, so say we've got our superficial fascia and our lymph in the same line and your lymph fluid is thick, gelatinous and not filtering very well. It's pressing down on your superficial fascia, which we don't want. We want circulating fascia mobility, right eye mobility. Now say that the fascia has an adhesion, it is pressing down, that scar is pressing down on the lymph fluids. So when we wear tight tights, we're actually telling our body to stop circulating. And then fascia is obedient. Whether you wear a tight that's tight at the ankle, tight at the waistline, a belt that's tight at the waistline, anything like that, your body is going to conform to that and tighten down and clamp in those areas. That clamp eventually is going to be stickier and create more adhesion. So we're going to create less mobility, less blood supply and more adhesions that we're going to have to unadhear in order to keep the mobility moving, the fluids moving, the nerves connecting and a cellulite free, non binding area. You know, I mean I have greatly changed my legs. Where I was, I was loved my body in clothes, outside of clothes, I'd be like, oh, I'm not going to rock a little dress. I'm not going to rock anything.

I think a lot of women feel that way. Yeah, yeah.

And now I love walking around and, and sporting my legs around, you know, at 61.

And that's because of working on the fascia.

That's because I've restored my fascia and I work on it on a regular base to keep my body moving and my body circulating and my blood supply high and my collagen production high.

So how do you work on what is the proper way to work on it? Because it gets very confusing. Like people see things on Amazon or they like, do they do it themselves? Do they have to have it done? What is like the, what should be people be doing at home even to get started on something like this?

So it really. There's so many things anytime that you are working to roll yourself.

So like a foam roller, meaning trampoline.

Work, massage your body anytime that you want to stretch, you're doing things that are going to help your fascia system. You cannot miss the cellular hydration because your body, if your body is dehydrated, is not going to be moving and looking pretty. Right. That is a key components to aging.

So talk to me about. Okay, so obviously so foam rolling makes sense because do that. And then if somebody's getting a massage, that makes sense. And then if you're doing the pinching yourself and not wearing tight clothes. But what do you mean by cellular hydration and where do we need, when do we want to use fascia devices and what makes those different than doing like a foam rolling or a massage?

So with a cellular hydration, there's a difference between something that can actually penetrate and get into your cell versus sitting outside of your cell. A lot of times when we've got what we think is hydration, we have actually have pulling of water, extracellular water and it's. None of it's permeated into that cell. And so that is inflammation causing an edema appearance. Right. So it's not appealing to us esthetically, but it's also pressure on the body. So we need the right kind of minerals, the right kind of structured water to bring that into our cells.

It's really important. Now, that's number one. So making sure you're having proper hydration. Is there any other kind of brief tip you could give on that? So because some people don't know what structured water is or minerals. Like, do you have, like, a general rule of thumb of what they should be drinking?

Well, I really like the Quinton products for the people just especially start out before they're actually considering about home products, to actually get filtrations in their home and everything. There's a lot of different things, and I think that they could probably connect with you with some of those. Right.

So anything. So you're just saying, like, mineral. So of just of what she's talking about here is I'm a fan of mineral water versus a lot of us in this idea of filtered and purified water, we lose those minerals. So is that what I'm hearing you say correctly, that we want to have, like, proper minerals so you're actually getting the hydration from the water?

Yes. Thank you for that. So I kind of explain it like this. If you don't have the minerals and say we've. Say we're making a smoothie. We've got all these beautiful ingredients in the smoothie, and we're pushing on, pushing on, pushing. But we don't plug in that blender. Yeah. We're never going to get the movement that makes sense. The minerals give us that movement.

Wow.

It gives our body the ability to communicate.

Okay, that makes sense. Okay, got that.

Okay.

So then when you talk about some of those devices, like, you'll see like, fascia blasters and things like that, like, how much do people need stuff like that versus just doing things themselves? Like, does that stuff make a huge difference to use?

I think it makes a monumental difference. I am living testament to that. And if you are taking and you have got the optimal choices for things to use on your body to restore it, why wouldn't you use it? Right. A lot of people would say money. I'm like, okay, well, these are like, tools and ideas that are timeless. That you'll have the tools for years. Right. Or you'll be able to use the methods for the rest of your life. Right. Then people might say, time, yes, it does take time. Whether I'm doing a virtual session with you, whether I'm doing the treatment on you, whether you're going and doing your homework. Beyond that, it does take time and personal commitment. There's no. There's no doubt about that. But remember, we're talking about finding a system and creating a method that's personalized for you, because everyone has a little bit different skin integrity, a little bit different fascia types, and then they've got a little bit of different ability to have mobility. Like someone might have carpal tunnel, frozen shoulder. So it's my job to help people create their own method for their skin, for their fascia type, for their mobility, and the time that they want to put in it so that they can get the maximum results.

Okay, how does gua sha fit into some of this? Is that the same idea when people use, like, a gua sha stone on their face? Is that doing the same thing? Or are we dealing with fascia in our faces? That restores things.

We are dealing with fascia all the way, even in our scalp. So when I do my fascia facelift, I'm literally working from the chest plate up to the forehead. Okay. And then I even do vocal massage because I'm working the fascia system with within the mouth. So the idea is we have got. If. If the fascia, once again, is strands, aren't we going to be better using methods that can actually unadhere it, that are calming the strands versus a flat? Right. Now, once again, I don't want to say to our clients, no, don't use the gua sha. Yes, use the gua sha. It's just not as efficient. Now, one thing I like about the gua sha, though, it's working the lymph, and it's really good to keep our lymph fluids moving. And every time I start working on a client, I do a postural assessment. I open up the six major lymph ducts before I do anything, then I work the whole lymph system. And if, say it's a virtual client, I'm teaching them how to work it. Like trampoline work, skin brushing work, gouache work. Right.

Okay, can you do a little touch on that? Because I think a lot of people don't even know what this is. So, like, when you say lymph, like you said the six major lymph systems, where what is that? And how do you open them up?

Okay, because we've got major ducts. We've got our lymphs all the way through our whole system, but we've got six major ducts. And if those ducts are clogged or congested, they don't filter as well, and they have to filter out all of our debris.

Okay.

So I always teach the first, I Always teach people about the six spots.

And where are those?

The first one is right here at the collarbone.

Okay.

And you pump it 10 times right both sides, and then you. Right behind your ear, right in the soft spot. 10 times both sides.

Okay.

Then on your underarm, you, like, squeeze. I tell my clients even to put their hand here and squeeze under.

Okay.

Or you filter this for 10 times. 2. 2. 2 inches above your belly button.

Okay.

Right here. And you're doing little tiny circles. And then right at your hip crease.

Okay.

Then right behind your knees, and you're just pumping each ten times in that. In that route. Here, here.

So should people do this before they ever dry brush or gua sha or anything?

Before they dry brush, gua sha, anything. Exercise. They're not feeling well, they want to start their day. I do it every morning. That's part of my rituals of waking up and getting out of bed.

Okay. So start with the lymphatic system, getting going. Okay. So if I hear you correctly, like, massage and foam rolling and gua sha, all that is not hurting anything. It's helping to move things, and it's definitely working with your lymphatic. But what. And same with, like, you're saying good nutrition and hydration is all critical, but you're saying by combing the fascia. This is sort of new technology, if I'm hearing you correct. This is, like, newly kind of figured out that by combing that you have seen tremendous results that you actually can not only reverse, prevent turnaround cellulite, but it also can restore where you might be sagging or had circulation issues. Is that. Do I. Am I saying that correctly?

Yes, 100%. Okay.

How does that fix circulation? Because one of the things I said to Tamara, I call it old people skin. Like, when we get, like. It's like that translucent, see through skin where you get, like, the purplish shade, you know? Y' all know what I'm talking about here.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, how? Well, you say gummy, but I don't know that I'm connecting to gummy. What do you mean by gummy? And how. What. What happens with the color of our skin as we age? And why does it fix through this?

Well, when we've got poor circulation, we get more of that pinky and that more purpley. Right? Okay.

Oh, gummy. Like, you're talking gum, like the color of your gums.

Yes.

I thought you meant gummy, like a texture. Got it.

Oh, got you. Okay. Yes. And so. And so it doesn't. It doesn't look like a. Like a natural color. It's right. You know, that should be on the exterior.

You're saying that's from poor circulation. That's why, like, if you do like a. If you get a pedicure and you're rubbing your leg and you're all of a sudden the circulation fixed. But you're saying by doing this, you permanently fix that circulation. Is that correct?

Well, I can't say that you're going to permanently. It depends on your posture. Think about this. If all day long I'm like this.

Okay.

Right. Aren't I messing up my whole fascia system? Because it's a continuous system. So if I'm going to move my body forward four steps, and then I'm going to stand like this all day, my body is going to go retract back. Right. Ought to be responsible for my diet, for my hydration, for my stance and my breath and my stress control. Because also when we stop breathing, we have a lot of stress. We clamp down in our. In our lymph system. We tell our lymph system to stop moving. And remember, lymph, it resides in the same area, superficial fascia, then that will clamp down on the fascia. Why?

Okay, when you did in your office, and I went in, and I'm somebody who loves massage and I foam roll and all that, but when you did the fascia stuff on me, it hurt. Why does it hurt? Does it always have to hurt?

No, it hurts when you don't have healthy fascia. When you've got healthy fascia, it feels.

So mine will stop hurting the more I'm doing this?

Absolutely. Yeah. The more restored it is, the better it gets. The one thing I want people to really understand, too, that we started to touch on, that we didn't really further that is the aging of our skin. Okay. And the different fascia types. So if you have got someone that's got really bound fascia where, like, you're. You're almost up against something hard, doesn't feel human. Like, it might look good because it's all nice and tight and firm to you, but it does move independently. With fascia, you want it to move independently. So for an example, if I'm moving right around all of this shirt, you see how the fabrics moving right here?

Right, right.

But if I was moving that and it was all going like one big piece and not moving right around my finger, that's unhealthy fascia.

Okay.

You don't want things to move in big blocks. You want Them to move right around where you've got the skin moving versus like you can put this on here and it will move and you'll see these big blocks of tissue moving. That's unhealthy. Now say you've got B. So that would be completely bound. The more of that in your body is more bound. That takes longer and more dedication and more frequent work than someone that might be really loosey goosey, hyper extended. Like loose connective tissue and joints and you almost like push into them and you could dive right in and they kind of pull fluid a lot in the front. That is poor circulation, but that's loose connective tissue. So you've got to work that well and then let it completely heal because it's already loose so you don't want to keep breaking it down. You've got to like work it hard and let it heal. Work it hard and let it heal. So you, you'll actually treat that type of fascia different. You'll extend out your self care or your appointments with me versus someone that's got more bound.

Makes sense when you do fat. Like if people do fascia at home on themselves or if they're using a tool, is there. Do you use it with oil? Do you use it just on dry skin? It can use it in the shower. And how do you know how hard you're supposed be doing with those, with those tools?

Yeah. It's hard to understand how to talk to people about the pressure.

Okay.

Okay. And I try to come up with words like, like feathering or light brisk or you've got some weight to your palm as you're doing the work in this area. And like I said, each person depending on the fascia type is going to have a little bit different pressure. Okay. But the idea is it's always better to go too light than too hard.

Really? Okay, good.

Absolutely. Now, you know, I mean I have got a little bit of that I like results. Right. Yeah. So natural way for me is going hard and, and deal with the pain. But that's me on my own body.

Yeah.

The idea is that fascia because we've got the superficial and then we have the deeper layers. It's really nice and loving to the body to go light, brisk and get that superficial layers healthier before we start working deeper and getting into those deeper layers. Right. And then we think about like the areas that we know that we can push harder because there's lack of a little bit of sensation. So like the outside of our shins. Right. Maybe at our Glute hammy tie in. People can normally handle a little bit more on the deltoids than they can between the bicep and tricep separation. So it's just kind of like learning about that. But that's what's easy for me to coach people along saying, totally. An area that's tend to be sensitive. And then are you supposed to, when.

You'Re using tools, use an oil all the time? Can you do it on bare skin? Can you do it in the shower?

You can do it any way that it's going to keep you consistent. Now if you want to know the best ways, you should do it on an oiled skin so you're not dragging the skin and you should do it heated. Because fascia is. When it's tight, it's always pushing back on you to create carry that integrity. Okay. When it's soft and gooey, it's much more obedient and, and responsive to the work that we're doing on it. So a good natural quality oil because we're roughing up the skin so we don't want any chemicals. Right. When a good quality oil on our skin and a lot of people will just do it in their shower where they can soap up, they're already getting the hot, the hot water on them. I'm a girl that I had beyond bound is where I started.

Okay.

I was the girl that was rock hard. Those people need more heat. And so I was always heating in my infrared sauna.

Yep.

I was lucky to have that. Right. But a lot of people aren't. So I treat people little things like a moist heating pad, which is very different than a regular heating pad or a hot shower, you know, or going out and getting a run in or going to a hot yoga class or Pilates class and then coming or going through a really intense workout and then putting the oil on their body and doing the work.

Interesting. Okay. And I know when I go to your studio, we, I go in the sauna there to get it. That's.

Yes.

She starts with what she's saying with the lymph drainage. And then we, I go in the sauna and then she does the fascia work on with oil after it's heated.

Yes. We're doing, you know, think about this. When we're doing the first lymph part, you know, we're still working fascia. We're just working superficial and getting the fluids moving. Right. Then I put you in the sauna, you're getting a nice natural. More detox. So here I've, I've taken off extra water off your, off your body. Right. The lymph work. Then I put you in the sauna where we're getting all of your cellular turnover. It's anti aging. You're getting more regulation for your blood sugar system. And we're detoxifying the skin, which always makes it more beautiful. And then I put you down or I do the more intense work with the fascia release. And you know, we've, we've created a really nice method to actually get the most optimal results from the body. And everyone I.

This, I find this so fascinating and the reason I wanted to have you on the podcast. So Tamara had been talk. I'd heard her talking about this for years and I kind of ignored it. I mean, it's going to be real. I was like, I don't get it. I don't understand it. So I didn't really pay attention to it. And then when I was recently in San Diego is when I went in for a treatment and I was hooked on it. I understand. And also because she showed me before and after pictures. So I think a lot of us learning about this for the first time or listening, we're so used to being told some things that I believed for a long time too. Like one, we can't spot reduce. I also believed, like if you have cellulite, it's a genetic thing, you can't change it. So I always thought that. I also thought the only way to fix sagging would be surgery. Like that's literally. I thought these things. So what is fascinating to me and why I wanted to have her share a lot about this is I'm seeing that that's not necessarily true. Like there's actually. You can fix sagging and reverse it. You can prevent, you can even turn around cellulite, even if it's a high genetic thing that you thought you had. You can change the way and spot reduce in certain areas through this method. So I'm, I'm convinced and that's why I wanted to make sure you all listening were aware of this, of this option. Because, you know, this is not something that's been really, really heavily talked about. I don't think it. Or maybe I've just missed it and it has been.

I didn't even know because it's a new phenomenon. You know, it's. It's hasn't been out that long. So it's. People are still trying to understand, you know, or even hear the word fashion. They.

Yeah.

Always have something to relate or connect to.

But I do think the commitment, it's. It is like anything else. It's like committing to changing your diet or committing to a workout program. Like it. It's not just a one and done like you. It's committing to not just trying it, but then going, okay, this is going to be a new habit. Is that accurate?

Lifestyle?

Yeah, it's part of. So you put this as a high up in your lifestyle along with those other things?

I do, yeah.

Okay. So, Tamara, where can people. Because I do. If you all. If this is fascinating to you, one, you can, you can go research fashion on your own. There's so much more there. But if you kind of want the shortcut or the, the quick version or the actual expert assessment. Tamara does work with people, not just in person, but remotely. She does mentorship. She actually sees one on one clients. Where do you want people to find you if they want to learn more.

Tamara, I'd love for them to go to my website because they can learn so much better there and fast there. It's tamarane.com that's T-A M A R A R-E-N-E-E.com.

Amazing. And then what's your Instagram, Tamara?

So they can follow you there at Fit Fine fascia.

And she puts a lot of great, helpful videos there.

Yes.

So much, Tamara, thank you.

Oh my gosh, Natalie, thank you. And I look forward to seeing you soon.