Healing the Trauma to Enjoy Midlife with Neeta Bhushan

I'll show it.

So I'm here with my friend Neeta today, and I'm so happy to interview you today. Neither on about midlife conversations, because there's so many things that are happening in our brain in midlife, as you know. And I'll tell you, the big thing that comes up, especially with midlife women especially, is the circumstances. There's so many things hitting us between what's going on in our bodies and the hormone shifts and appearance changing. And now we're going through, like, midlife crisis stuff. Maybe marriages are changing, careers changing, kids are leaving home. So much is happening that it's so easy to get sucked back into the circumstance. And you are sort of that queen of grit, like, you know how to navigate through circumstances. So I can't wait to dive in and chat with you today. Thanks for being here.

Oh, my gosh, love, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

So let's. I want to talk. There's so many things I want to ask you, but I want to start from the beginning. And by the way, Nita just published a book. I just got it right before we started recording, so I have not even read it yet. But I can't wait. I love the title. It's called that Sucked now what? I mean, what an awesome title.

Well, I had to fight for that title for, like, eight months because my publisher was like, no, that's not you. I'm like, we. Of course it's me. No, it's me in my own skin.

Yeah, it makes me want to, like, I need to read it tonight. I have to understand what's going on. But we're going to get into the book. But I want to. First, I want to start with you. Talk to us about. Because you didn't have, like, a normal upbringing. You had a lot of stuff happening.

Yeah, yeah, I definitely grew up super fast. I had to. You know, I was a product of immigran parents. My dad was from India. My mom was from the Philippines. So, you know, no pressure. The, like, the energy to perform and do and achieve and just all of the things that was just like, that was. That was my world. But then it took a different toll. You know, When I was 10, my mom got sick and she. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. And, you know, for my strict Indian Punjabi father, that was like, he couldn't understand. And I was the oldest of two younger brothers as well. And so that really took us on a journey with my mom. I mean, between the ages of 10 and 16, like, I literally grew up in hospital settings.

I can't even imagine. I mean, that's gotta. I mean, I think of my daughter, 15, and like they're just, they're in teenage world, like to have that kind of fear happening and that responsibility.

Well, yeah. I mean, I remember after school, like all my friends were going to the mall, you know, and going to the mall was a thing. It wasn't TikTok, right. And then for me, I was to the hospital bedside doing my homework with my mom. So that was that. It was just tough. It was just what it was, you know, you don't know any different, right. You're like, oh, I wish I can go with you, but I can't. And so that was our life. And my mom, you know, she lost her battle. It ended up spreading to her lungs and her brain. So it was. And so that would not only set me up for a trajectory of thinking that health is going to be my very prime, you know, value later on, but then also just like this idea that, okay, I'm strong, I'm. I'm resilient, I'm strong. I was told that my friends and family, my teachers told me that like, you're strong, Nita, you're the oldest, you got this. And so that was like the mantra in my head. So then a year later when my brother was coming out of school, it was. I was a senior in high school and he was a sophomore. He had an asthma attack and it was our homecoming year and it was literally almost. It was a year after my mom died and we were supposed to meet because our high schools were literally kitty corner from each other. He went to an all boys high school and I went to. We grew up in Chicago, so it was in the city of Chicago. And he never made it to meet me because he had, he had a severe asthma attack.

Wow. Which is completely uncommon for that to happen.

And no, he wasn't an athlete. I mean, he played chess. That was common more in athletes. Right. If you were playing like football and things like that. But he wasn't. It was, you know, years later. I've now been able to make peace with it. And he was the closest to my mom, honestly. And. And to think that now I'm like, okay, well maybe they just wanted to be together. But back then it took our family out. I mean, crushed, wrenching, got.

Yeah, I can imagine. Like, you can only take so much trauma, like and then it. To have two massively thing, massive significant things like that a year apart.

Oh, it was a, it was a sucker punch. I mean, it probably wasn't until quite a few years ago where I could actually speak about it without, like, fully shaking still, because the trauma has run so deep. And so. So that took my. My dad went into deep, severe depression. I had to get three working jobs just to support the family. I couldn't go away to colleges.

So you're 17 at this. When this is happening.

I'm 17 at this point. I'm a senior. You know, you're applying to colleges, and my dad is just like, okay, let's focus, so let's not grieve. Let's channel your grieving into just study and get into college. Like, that was still the mantra, you know, immigrant parents. And he was just doing the best he could, but this trauma was so big, and. And then two years later, my dad got diagnosed with stage four lung cancer.

Wow. And you're like, really? Because. Is this just. Oh, what is happening? Yeah.

Natalie. I was like, are you. Are you fudgeing?

Kidding me?

I don't know if I. But, like, I was screaming at the doctors. I mean, I lost my shit. I. Yeah.

Like, how much can one person. How can one. Much can one family take?

Oh, yeah, it was. It was those. Those days were so dark and so awful. And I think that I got into my 20s thinking, all right, like, I. We. I lost my dad when he. When I was 19. And I was. Then, you know, we were orphans. I was.

So you're. You're basically the oldest, that you're parenting your other.

Yeah, yeah, I'm parenting my youngest brother. And by the way, my dj, my middle brother died on my youngest brother's birthday. And so, yeah, it was. It was a lot of trauma. And so if I was kind of an expert at trauma Olympics for a little while, I did not want to get that. That's final.

So did somebody step up to help you or you having. What happened?

Yeah. So, you know, Filipino, Indian culture, everyone comes in, and that's. That was such. I don't think I'd be here today if we were just by ourselves. I had so many of my aunts, my. My matriarchs on my mom's side, my grandmother, my great aunt, they basically stepped in to help raise us. They still lived in their homes, but, you know, everyone kind of took, you know, space and time, and my aunt on my dad's side, my dad's sister was a primary caregiver for us. For my brother and I, you know, it still isn't the same. Right. Because many of my Aunts didn't have children. My grandmother, they all, they all did the best, right? It was very much tiger parenting. So very strict, very like, all right, straight A's, good grades, like no one could hold space for the bigness of our emotions. Everyone was just performing, achieve and success because that's all they knew and that's probably what they all grew up with. And so for me it was just. So I went end up going to dental school and I end up going to dental school and one of the first jobs I actually had while my mom was sick was working for a dentist on Saturday mornings and I was answering the phone and that was my first foray into dentistry. But you know, fast forward 10 years later, I'm in dental school and I, you know, graduated all the things, fell in love and I get into my first marriage and it was, it was probably the greatest and most painful experience because that was the first time I would really learn about self love. And because, mind you, I did not deal with a lot of my losses. I went to quote unquote therapy. But as a kid you're just going because people are afraid that you're probably going to hurt yourself. And so they're checking the boxes.

But it wasn't wearing masks, it's just masking. Yeah.

So it was, it was, it was like, okay, they're, they're good, they're, they're, they're going. But you don't really unpack a lot of that depth of like the full wailing and the screaming and the, you know, full emotional release. I didn't do that until December 31st now 11 years ago, where I found myself, you know, just like in my master bedroom, five story home. I thought I'd made it. My family was proud of me that I had purchased my practice. I was a cosmetic dentist. I had people working for me. You know, I look probably like I was 18 and so I did all of these things.

Still look 18 by the way.

So she does.

If you can see her on video, you'll, you'll be like, why is she on midlife conversation? She has midlife. I will say that. But she doesn't like it.

I just turned 40 this year. Yeah. And so. Yeah. But it wasn't until then where I actually hit rock bottom where I was spiritually dead, emotionally scared for my life and my ex husband threatened my life at that point. And it was for me to really like get out of this chaos that I was actually in for years. But I was so scared. I was scared.

So wait, back Up a minute here. So you said he threatened your life. So were you in a rough, rocky marriage and you just had. Just doing what you always did? Like, I'm not going to deal with it. I'm going to ignore it. Is that what happened?

Oh, yeah. My coping mechanism was I chose emotionally unavailable men and I overlapped it. So I overlapped it. That was the one thing that I was. I succeeded in. In. In outward, you know, success and, And. But with boys, oh, no, that I didn't. I didn't have a playbook for it. I didn't know. I just wanted to create a family that I had lost. And so for me, it was. I didn't know what, you know, the. The love bombing was, you know, that, that, that.

So narcissist. You liked the narcissistic.

Oh, yeah, that was me. I was like, all right, give it to me. Because I was so codependent in my behaviors. If you can imagine going through all of those losses, you're, like, afraid everyone around you is going to die. So you're like, let me.

If you think of narcissism, it's like the. I like. And I'm so familiar with that type of dynamic, but, yeah, that narcissistic personality. They've got the two. The two sides of things when they truly are emot. Available. Like, they're not. There's that, but then there's this other part where there's this. The acting, the performing, the show and the. So it feels. It feels attractive, it feels safe. And especially if you're masking, it's like, oh, this is perfect. Because they're. We're keeping this front to the world.

Oh, it's. It's so good. It's like. Because the codependent side is also trying to. It's like fitting in a puzzle. It's a. It's a puzzle piece. And so I was the perfect person for the narcissist. And also it was. It was great to keep my confidence low. So I felt like I couldn't ever leave. I was, you know, in my mind, I was like, I'm broken. And so there was a lot of things that I had to confront in myself when things got so bad. So for anyone listening who maybe is going through a rough time or a rough patch or maybe has been enduring something like this for decades, because I know that many times we don't necessarily talk about it. It was because of a girlfriend of mine who called me out subtly, who didn't say, oh, I don't like him. I don't, because they did a great job of isolating me around my closest family and even my friends. And so did my family like him? No, no. The signs were all there. Red flags were all there. And for when you're in that sort of chaotic relationship, because I grew up with chaos. Something was going wrong every single year. It was just, you know, my nervous system did not know how to regulate at all. I knew how to regulate chaos because I'm like, ok, could live in the chaos. And so this was something that I needed to step out and recognize for myself. So December 31, I was with a girlfriend. She's like, neither. She's like, you don't. You're not even 30 yet and you have all of these things. She's like, I can. I see you in a different light. I can. You don't have to do this. Like, my parents, who are in their 50s, who. My mom is still walking on eggshells. And so that landed for me because she was the catalyst for me to then recognize, what am I doing? How did I get here? And okay, so literally haphazardly packed my stuff.

I'm assuming you did not have kids yet or you did.

I did not have kids, no. No. It was two people that just knew my brother. Thankful, you know, thankful for him. And then, and then my friend. And friends have been the through line from my life. Every single loss, my through line. So community is so big. And obviously I met you at a community event and, and, and, and being able to go deep with people is big value for me because I didn't have family. And so, so then fast forward, I get into my 30s and it is all about healing. Healing on every level. Like, I'm like, give me some of the emdr, the psychedelics, the. Let's move through these, you know, emotional release workshops. Let's get, Let me show you.

Were searching for so many answers and it's like. And you didn't even know that was available before?

Oh, had no idea. I mean, I started even leading a small group, you know, the Christian community, like, welcome me with open arms because I'm just like, I am hungry. I need to rebuild my life, a community. And so I, you know, never judge the people that, like, walk into your life because sometimes they're angels and they might serve you in certain ways. For me, I just, I just wanted to be accepted and loved and, and even in my family, a lot of the folks who, who weren't really okay with me getting a divorce, like my Filipino family, they're like, why. Why would you do that? But because so many of them have affairs and. And these secrets and so much shame around even telling people that I was in an abusive relationship. I couldn't even say those words out of my mouth until I started to, you know, just say yes to all of these new experiences. So I spent time with a lot of shamans. It took me around the world. It took me to different places. And then I started recognizing that I didn't really like being a cosmetic dentist. Like, I was good at making people look good and feel good, which fits.

Right in what you were doing with the masking, if you think about it like, you.

So true.

Yeah. Like, let's just look the part. Let's just look better.

Oh, yeah. Let's just look better. Let's just hide everything. You're. You're telling me about your crazy relationship right now because, you know, dentists are. They're kind of like therapists in many ways, and I'm just going to make your smile even better. So.

Yeah, it makes sense.

Yeah.

So I can see how that lost, like, its purpose. It lost its. Because now you're, like, seeing. I want real. I want authentic. I. I'm just contributing to this right now. That makes sense.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And. And the more I started to recognize and go back to my truth and get back to, you know, even things that lit me up, I never even knew. Okay, what. What does happiness even mean to me? Because for me, I was taught happiness meant, all right, you're serving other people, you're making your aunts happy, your grandmother happy, but nobody was like, but what about you?

And it's also super culturally ingrained, too. I mean, even though your mom and dad passed on, that's super strong in both their cultures.

Totally, Totally.

It's like new.

That's all I knew. That's. That's. That's like. Wait, what do you mean, boundaries? That's not a thing.

What does that mean? It sounded too American. You know, have a purpose and have boundaries. Right?

Yes. And to be honest, yeah. It was a privileged thing for me to even go into. Right. Because of what they went through and the chaos that we were in. So this was like chapter two or even, you know, stage two or act two for me. And then, you know, getting into the healing work, which was. I had to break down. I had to break down in all the ways and unlearn. So, yeah, I. I started a nonprofit for women and girls to teach self confidence, and then I got into investing in women and because I had, you know, a dental business that I was like, okay, how am I going to get out of this? And I just started saying yes to new opportunities, saying yes to doing stand up comedy, saying yes to improv. And that not only rebuilt my confidence, there's a concept I talk about in the book known as your bounce factor. And so our bounce factor is comprised of four parts, right? And it's part two of the book. But most people think resiliency is that toughness. Because I. I was. I was like that too. But when we actually know resiliency. Resiliency in Latin means to bounce. And if we take a glass and we drop it, it's going to shatter in a million pieces, right? It's going to break down. But if we take a ball, like I have two babies, I've two kids, one's four and the other one's 18 months. When I give them a ball that's flexible like a basketball or a tiny little ball, it has a little bit of give, right? It has a little bit of that agility where it's going to be soft as well as tough, so that it can bounce and sometimes bounce higher and higher. And so the four parts really are. The first one is let's make peace with our upbringing. So that's something that I had to do, make peace with that you can't change it. And for most people.

Let me ask you. Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt, but I have a question here that's coming up for me. And so how did you.

When.

When you recognize that you were. You had been emotionally unavailable, you hadn't actually walked through the pain, you would have been attracting that into your life, all of that. How did you find that you were able to finally open up and walk through it? Because I think that's a really challenging spot for people. Like, I think people that are emotionally unavailable or closed or have the wall up or whatever, they know. They know. They do. They've been told it. They know. But it's so scary to break it down, they almost don't know how to. So I just. I don't. I want to. I don't want to skip over that part because I'm sure there was a. How did you figure out how to do that?

I mean, I. I couldn't hold it in anymore. I couldn't hold it in. I mean, I was so. I was so unhappy. I literally hit my breaking point. And that breaking point was December 31st. It was like, I can't hold us in anymore. Because for so Much of my life. And I know that this might resonate even with you, Natalie. Like, I. I wasn't. There was no space for me to cry because I had to be strong. There was no space for me to break down and let. Let it all out, because, oh, my gosh, how are we supposed to support her? And. And so it wasn't until I couldn't no longer hold it in anymore. Like, you just burst it.

It's like it wasn't even like you made a decision. It just.

It fully, fully burst fully.

And you're lucky it bursted that way versus in a health challenge, because I think a lot of times that's how it shows up.

Well, funny enough, you're. You're talking about health challenges for me. I didn't even realize until having been on the other side of that, when I actually found love, when I actually had, you know, became a mother, that all in my 20s, I suffered from severe, like, anxiety to the point of, like, I had such crazy digestive issues. Like, crazy digest. Like, I couldn't eat sushi. I. I was on all of these different things. I had Pepto Bismol on the side of my bed.

Yeah.

Sexy, right? For years. For years. Because I just had such, like, gripping pain every time I would eat something that would just trigger it and couldn't figure it out. And especially during the time of my divorce. And so you're absolutely right. It manifested in so many ways. Our vagus nerve goes from, you know, our brain all the way through our body. And so, you know, in the book, I actually talk about ways where we can open our vagus nerve. And, like, basically, it's incredible and, you know, just manage our nervous system that way with different tools so that we can actually catch ourselves. But back then, I. I had no idea. I was just like, all right, this is what's going on. I'm bare. I'm bare to the world. I'm. I'm naked. I'm exposed because I was living this lie, and I couldn't lie anymore.

So.

And then do you.

For the summer, the person that is stuck, and they maybe are not at that breaking point yet, but they're headed there. And they, um.

Was. Do you.

Any of the things, the modalities that you chose, do you think they were the thing like. Like you mentioned you were. You kind of found Christianity at one point, and then you said you went and worked with shamans and psychedelics and you did some emdr. It's like, all very different things. In a search. Was there, like, One thing or a combination that you thought like, hey, this really opened me up.

Oh, gosh. Yeah. So. So when I was talking about the, the bounce factor, right? So as I talk about the bounce sector now, the first part I already talked about was your upbringing, which we can build to increase our bounce factor for anybody that's stuck to get out of the. Stuck to get out of the suck. Because many times we are stuck in the suck and we can't get out. And I know that it comes around a lot of times either in the beginning of the year or even the end of the year and or after really sucky human moments, but it's inevitable, right? And so for me, the very first few years was all about cultivating what I call good stress. That's the second part in building your bounce factor and what I mean by good stress. Because you're like, wait, how, how do I build good stress? Why do I even want stress when I'm already stressed? So here, hear me out. Like the, the good stress, what I'm talking about is most people will cocoon. Most people will shut down because we want to avoid, we want to distract, and we want to numb. That's what I did. I mean, luckily I didn't have, you know, addictive behaviors, but my addiction was trying to control everything. I was a perfectionist. Hello, I'm a cosmetic dentist. Like, I couldn't make a mistake. That was what I was. So I was so keen on trying to control my team members the way that I, you know, I did my work on a day to day basis. And, and finally you have this breaking point where it fully cracks you open. You can't hide from the world anymore. It's not going to be perfect. I remember coming into my office, I was, I was a dentist, parking my car with all of my, like, whatever I could grab from my house in the first few weeks after I, you know, I did a restraining order and you have to go before a judge. I mean, it was all of these things that literally took me out of, like hiding anymore because I had to present myself. And then I come into my office trying to pretend like, okay, everything is good. And I remember I had, you know, the suction in my patient's mouth and I'm like, fuck it. I'm just gonna tell everybody because I'm sobbing with my mask, mask to hear my goggles and my like, you know, my, my mask is getting all like, foggy. My goggles are getting foggy because I'm literally like dry heaving, like, crying. And I'M like, I just. I got up. I'm like, excuse me. The guy's, like, sitting there. It could be a comedy set. But I went out. I'm like, I need to talk to everybody right now. I had four ops going. We had patients everywhere, people in the waiting room. And I'm like, I can't. And I just blurted it out. I'm like, this is going to be so awkward right now, but I'm going through, you know, this. This really painful time. And I just said it, and I said, you can leave or you can stay. And I. You know, if you're afraid of uncertainty, I don't know what's going to happen. All of these things. And that was the moment that that true vulnerability, which I talk about in the book as well, is, you know, that suck can sometime, you know, grab us into this victimhood. But what I'm talking about is the moment between that that sucked and now what? There's this bridge of vulnerability where you're actually saying, I need help. I can't do this alone. Can you support me? And everyone just took their masks off, and, like, literally, we. We hugged each other. And it was just. It was so powerful because I thought I had it to do. I had to do this thing on my own, and so surrendered.

It was a total surrender moment.

Full, full surrender. So that's what I talk about is, like, if you can cultivate this idea of good stress. So leaning into the discomfort that we choose to avoid, me invoking good stress was leaning into that discomfort that I wanted to hide away from everyone and not tell everybody the truth. Think I could just mask it and then say yes to all of these other opportunities. Hey, you want to do this retreat with me? Yes, I'm there. Hey, you want to go to this improv thing with me? Yep, I'm there. You want to do the psychedelic thing? Yes. So saying yes to these opportunities that will expand you and take you out of your edge. Yeah. You want to do a triathlon? Never done it before. Not that good at swimming. Yes. You know, like, so that was slowly and steadily rebuilding me in so many ways. And. And literally, I have a whole slew of it in the book to talk about how to tap into good stress, whether it's physical, mental, emotional, spiritual.

Yeah. You just tapped on two words that I absolutely love, and they were my. My word this year coming up is vision. But the year before that, it was expansion, and before that was surrender. But I hear a lot of, like, surrender and expansion and what you're sharing is that whole. And I, and I fully align with that and believe that. That we have to surrender to. To what actually is and actually feel it. And then expansion is such an overlooked part where we have to really open up and try new things, do new things, talk to new people. And that's exactly what you did. Saying yes to all the things because we stay in our box of. This is what I've always been told. This is all I know. There is no expansion in that. And we do stay stuck.

We can't grow, we can't grow, and we're stuck in the stock.

That's where I always, I personally will. I'll come up against, not intentionally, but people that are super judgmental and rigid in their box because there's so many different ways and modalities and. And just answers and. And I feel like that's such a restrictive place to be when you're like, I have to be. Right? It's only this. And I judge everybody else versus being expansive and learning all the different ways.

Well, and look, listen, you know, not everything is for everybody, right? When people ask me, hey, you know, is psychedelics the way. And I'm like, honestly, do your research. It may not be for. For everybody. It's actually not for everybody. However, for me, it was the most cathartic experience. And also, even. Even reconnecting and connecting with different kinds of friends who maybe can. Will serve you in different seasons of your life. Maybe they're not your forever friends, but maybe for that season that you're going through that thing, like, like I said, I was in that small group. I started leading that small group, and then I realized, oh, wait, actually, maybe.

Going down the religion road. Going down, right?

Yeah. And maybe I'm like, oh, maybe I meant to speak to bigger audiences. That's what came from it. And then it was, you know, doing a pitch training with VCs where I didn't even have a startup, it was a nonprofit. But it got me into this world of VCs, which then landed me in San Francisco, where I was then mentoring founders from a cosmetic dentist. You know, so it's like following the breadcrumbs. You just never know where it would lead. But you've got to say yes to the adventure. Sure.

I love that. So take us to where you are now. Like, what. What transpired, what happened after you sort of walk through these things and you figured this out?

Yes, well, for a while, my heart was obviously closed. But for those listening who are definitely, you know, in this season of transition and Divorce, there is hope. And. And I know that for me, when I started saying yes to dating, it was painful, it was scary. And I also had to re. Connect back to myself. Okay, if I want to. And this is part three of the bounce factor, by the way. If I want to have somebody that is honest, then I've got to be honest with myself. And so that began this journey of, okay, if I want somebody that's vulnerable. Where am I not being vulnerable in these dates? Because I would be judging, and I'd be like, no, not, no. You know, like, going on, yeah, 50 first dates. Literally, like, I had a whole spreadsheet, and I started quantifying it. I mean, it was like, it was a whole thing. And. But for me, it was like, okay, she's not ready. I'm not. I'm not ready. And so what I. When I talk about in the book is our emotional capacity to feel and to honor. Like, oh, okay, am I. Am I getting jealous here? Okay, what is happening where I am seeing a lack in myself and how is that projecting out? So it's, It's. It's allowing some of those big feelings to still surface of. All right, is that part of you that needs a little bit more compassion that you're not paying attention to? And so, lo and behold, I met my now husband. Three different points in three different countries in the world. First, we met at Dominican Republic.

Okay.

And then two years later, we met in Malaysia. And then a year after that, we met again in Malaysia and then in India.

It just kept bumping into you.

We just kept. It was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I was like, okay, I think he's my person, but I'm just going to say yes to the adventure and not judging the outcome, because at this point, I knew I was ready for my second act in whatever that looked like. And I wasn't going to attach myself to marriage again because I was like, I don't know. I don't. I don't know. And so luckily, he was also in the same space. He was married before. And we came into our union being so intense, intentional about what we wanted, how we wanted to create our lives. And our first year and a half, we were just bouncing around different parts of the world. He was on his way from Malaysia to San Diego, and I was on my way to Singapore because I was doing a lot of, you know, leadership coaching at the time with leaders. And so it was. It was a very mixed bag of things. But then we fell in love, and we said yes and, and you know, five years later we have two beautiful babies. So here we are literally in the magic, in the mess. Because, you know, as my subtitle, find the joy and chaos. That's really the joy and chaos when you have two, you know, toddlers, 18 months and 4 years old.

Wow. I just love this journey. And I really. Gosh, you really, truly do embody that journey of turning that, that mess, the mess into our chaos, into joy and just really navigating, navigating the circumstances. Because I really believe so many people are so stuck in circumstance they don't see another possibility. And I think it's critical to surround yourself with people that live in possibility. And if you don't have those really in your life, that's why it's so important to turn, tune into podcasts like this or to read your book and to just make your own surround sound of this information so you can level up your life.

I mean, honestly, Natalie, that's what I did in the darkest days. I literally used to listen to like Simon Sinek on like repeat back in the day, you know, and like Carmel Robbins back in the day, Brene Brown, like that was. And I started to infuse it like craziness into my dental office before it was even a thing. And everyone would make fun of me.

Like you get it in your subconscious. It's so important. If we don't have this in your life.

Yeah, right, exactly. And that's, I think that's where it starts, you know, and then maybe it's saying yes to a retreat or an event or something like that to find more like minded people.

Yes. Well, so good. This is so fabulous today. So everyone go out and get that book that sucked now What? Where can they get it? Anywhere books are sold. Amazon. Where do you want them to go?

Well, yeah, absolutely. So you can actually get. We've got incredible bonuses too. So if you go to that sucked now what dot com. You actually get a digital version of this 44 page self healing guide. It's the workbook that goes with the book. It goes with all of the concepts that we kind of to, you know, touch.

Say that link again. So make sure we're gonna put in the show notes too.

But what is the link that sucked now what dot com.

Great. Thank you so much. Neither.

You are so welcome. Thanks so much, Natalie. It was such a pleasure to serve you all.