Is It SIBO Creating Our Symptoms? with Shivan Sarna

Today on Midlife Conversations, I've got Siobhan Sarno on here. Now. I met her when I was doing my. My summit. That's actually when I met you, Siobhan. I believe we were. And I had you on talking about something unrelated to. We're talking about today. We were talking about aging parents, and that was. It was a fun topic because you. I know you said something was near and dear to your heart. You wanted to get into that, so we did that. That was a really fun topic to do with you. And I know I've even know if you know this shaman. I've since aired that episode on my podcast as well. So some people have heard you talking about that. But today we're doing a very different topic. And this is really Siobhan's genius. This is something that she has helped countless people with. She is the Amazon bestselling author of Healing Sibo. Now she's a TV host and the creator of Sibo SOS Summit and Community. She is the go to see Sibo expert. Now, what is Sibo? If you ask, it's a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Is that right? Did I say that right?

You got it.

Got it right. And why am I doing this today with you? I'm doing this because if you've been listening to my podcast for any length of time, you know, I have taken you on a journey with my own health and what I was learning. And I have really honed in on how important our gut health is, especially in midlife. We tend to, as midlifers, we look at hormones, we think it's aging, it's hormones, it must be perimenopause and menopause. That's our go to. And then second to that, we'll say, oh, it's our thyroid. Now, it very well could be those things, but the thing is, everything starts in the gut. And when we don't have our gut working right, then all those other things are worse. And we could be treating things that are not working for us and wondering why we're not getting better.

And.

And gut is that most critical thing. When I started sharing so much about gut testing and gut health, many of you messaged that you had learned you had Sibo. It's a lot more common than I realized. And so I thought, let's dive into this. Let's understand what it is, where it comes from, what we can do about it. All the things. Siobhan, thank you for being here.

Oh, my gosh, thank you so much. We have such a similar Journey in that when we found out stuff that was wrong with us, we made a vow to go help people, to figure out what was wrong with them and to most importantly, fix it. So I was a host on Home shopping network for 24 years. It was a great gig. Mold infested building, however, and I was in mold denial for a really long time. And simultaneously with all of that, my cup just kind of got more and more full with stuff as I was trying to age backwards, but limited results. Anyway, what happened was I was really not doing well. I had terrible brain fog. I was super bloated, I was overweight. I was really not thriving. Not well. I knew it was more than just aging. Fast forward to me sitting in my kitchen going, and, and you know, so many of us have this story, like, okay, something's got to give here. And I went down Dr. Google. And honestly, Dr. Google, when used properly, can be super helpful. I mean, people, I would make that.

Argument too, but my gosh, it's, it's a balance, right?

Like, I love going on to PubMed. I couldn't do that before Dr. Google, right? So it's just about balance and finding the truly credible sources. So I knew that there was something wrong with me and I'd gone to an ayurvedis, you know, acupuncture, physical therapy, you know, shots, you know, you name it. Oh yeah, the whole bit. Finally, and he is known in my book healing Sibo as Dr. Run three miles. Because he told me, you know, really, the best laxatives to run through. I was like, I can barely get out of breath. Anyway, I, I, I went through a lot. I had a false negative for Sibo breath test. I lost 18 months due to that false negative. Spent 10,000 plus dollars. Finally found Dr. Allison seebacker online. She wasn't taking patients. She was a true Sibo specialist. But all of this was from an attitude of, I don't know what's wrong with me. I know someone does. Yeah, right. It wasn't, I don't think anyone does. It was, I know someone does. I will go find that person anyway. Right? So instead of I love that you.

Did that because I'm a huge fan of being a detective and I tell people all the time, we've got to be a our own health detective because is, we cannot just take the five minute appointment with the doctor that just tells us, you know, in this quick summary, like, you have to be your own health detective. And if what they're telling you isn't adding up, you got to keep digging, you have to.

That's what my platform, SIBO SOS was originally, like, save me, hello. And then organically, Natalie, it came to be Save Ourselves. I was like, that's good marketing, but that's really good.

I didn't even know that when I just said that. That's great.

It really is save Ourselves. So. So I'm pro practitioner, by the way. I love a great practitioner who stays up with research, which is possible to do, but, like, even if they're just open and I walk in with a study and they're like, oh, that's cool, let's do that, or let's look at that. So I. I basically did my own patient journey, found Dr. Allison C. Becker, had a burning desire to write a book was a little bit harder than I thought it was going to be, considering I was a host on tv. I was like, I'm going to do a summit. This was back in 2016. I did the SIBO SOS summit in. In 2017. And what happened was, is Dr. See Backer now is a really good friend of mine, my main collaborator. She said, let me introduce you to my friends. And they were all sibo specialists, all in this cast in Portland, Oregon. So I went to Oregon with my camera crew, the whole bit. How does this help anyone at home is that if you are bloated, if you have constipation, diarrhea, alternating constipation or diarrhea, if you have rosacea, restless leg syndrome, if you start out in the morning and your pants fit a certain way and then they're too tight by later on in the afternoon, and it isn't that you just, you know, ate mass quantities of food, then you may very well have sibo. It mimics other things. Big disclaimer. Like, hello, parasites. It mimics Candida as well. Sibo is caused by something, and then it causes other things. What is the underlying cause of sibo? It is, number one, food poisoning, believe it or not.

Really?

Yes. That's the big, like, what. When I was five, I went to India with my parents. I'm half Indian, half Irish, and I got really sick. And I remember my mother even, like, went to the American embassy to, like, try to find me a doctor. And. And we had, like, corn flakes. And she was so happy that I was eating something. You know, it was very. It was memorable.

Yeah.

And when I got back. So I'm five, right. When I got back, I remember my dad, who was the Indian, asking my mom if I was going to the bathroom. Bowel movement every day. And it was my first experience with shame, body shame. It was crazy because I was like, get out of my beeswax. It was just like.

But I remember that at age 5, like, I mean, when you were little kids, like, that's not. We don't talk about it the way we do in our industry now.

Like, right? So my mom was always like, you know, back off, papa bear. You know, it was like, it was a moment and she was being very protective of me and he was being protective of me as well. But ever since then, like, I remember struggling to go to the bathroom and it was, it was just something that followed me all my life. And I had a little bloating all my life. And you know, my friends used to be very sweet and call me Buddha belly. And you know, it was just. Sorry, Buddha. It was just like, you know, a thing that was just me. And then I got exposed to the moldy building and it just like everything blew up. But I remember that I felt very different because like we go to slumber parties and stuff and everyone's like, you know, pooping like a dream in the bathroom. I was like, oh, what's wrong with me? So if you have any of those symptoms and you've ever had food poisoning, even if it wasn't as elaborate as my food poisoning story with international intrigue, look, you could have had that stomach flu. You could have had a day or a couple of hours of diarrhea. And, and what happens is it, it harms the migrating motor complex, which is this sweeping motion in the small intestine that sweeps out bacteria and debris. There are other things that can also inhibit the migrating motor complex, like endometriosis, adhesions, cesarean section, opioid use. Opioid from dental surgery. And that's why I just saw Colace come.

Opiate from dental surgery. How is that? What is that? Why that versus just opioid.

Why opioids use. But like, if you have a tooth removed and then they put you on the pain meds and you're on opioids for a couple of days, like, you don't think of yourself as an opioid user, right? So that's why I say, I say it like that because, oh like if.

You'Re just using it for a one time thing, it still falls into the equation.

I get it, right. If you have a strong migrating motor complex, you may have no problem. But if you have some other contributing factors and you all, you have a slightly diminished migrating motor complex and then you take some opioids for that tooth extraction, it could create a perfect storm.

That's exactly. I have a quick, funny share on that. And then I have a question. My quick, funny share is that I. When I had my explant not too long ago, they did give me low, low levels of opioids. And I had just done all this work with my gut. Like, I really was clear on that. So I took them for the pain. Right. And it's like, it was so funny. My body, like, after a few. Whatever I took them for, for the pain, my body was, like, rejecting them. Like, get this out of you. Where usually that would make you feel good, but it's almost like your body is smart and knows this is not good for your gut, this is not good for your health. That was the one thing. Yeah. I wanted to share that. And then. I know my question for you is there tends to be a theme, me included. You just mentioned it. Many guests I've had on that. People that go down that road with gut health, they then learn. Not just the parasite or the sibo, they then learn, oh, wait, I was exposed to mold. Wait, I was exposed to heavy metals. And we. We all like a bunch of hypochondriacs. I mean, I'm sure on social media, they're like, what? How did. You just had this. Now you have black mold. Why is that all tied together somehow? Or what's going on there?

I want to just put in a bubble this thing that I read. And I can't remember who said it, but he. He was observing, like, why does everyone in Hollywood have lime? And he realized that it wasn't that everyone in Hollywood had lime more than anyone else. It was just that they had money and they were going to naturopath, and they were.

Yeah, they're discovering it tests.

Right. So that's. They were looking. Right. And they had resources to do it. Now, for the rest of us who are not, like, Hollywood money. Right. If you get that miserable, which you and I have been, that miserable, I went down that rabbit hole, and I decided to spend the resources that I did have with my privilege.

Okay.

And, you know, find out about mold and all of that, because I was sick as.

Yeah. Oh, I get it. So can you. And I don't want to get too far off Sibo. I want to go back to that in a minute. But I do have this question. They all tie together, though. Like, I've learned that they all feed off each other, like sibo and parasites and mold and metals. Like, can you maybe, maybe you can break that down for us a little bit better and explain why that works. That like, because if you have a totally healthy gut biome, none of that's really going to survive and thrive in there, I'm assuming. But if you don't, like one thing lives off the other, is it? Do I have that right?

I think you're really close. I think the other thing is how do you detox? What's your methylation cycles? What's your liver? Phase one and two and all of that Sinclair canaly, come help me. You know like once, once you have a recipe going. Look, you hear about people on the front porch smoking and drinking until they're 100 years old, sun baked and they're fine. They do fine. Right. And then there are people like me who are like, I can't even go into a carpet store or I'm going to have. Yeah. Because of the toxins there. So it just has to do obviously with, you know, partially with your genetics. How you express those genetics, what you've been exposed to. Everybody's their own.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah, it was fun. Like my, like my husband was super sick. Super sick. Living in the house that we had black mold in. Like he was. He felt it sick. I didn't feel it sick. But when we did toxin test later, mine was like off the charts and his didn't even show anything. I was like, wait, what? How does that happen?

And by the way, when you did your parasite cleanse, did you treat him too?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I heard I could get him back. Yeah, yeah, that wasn't. I make. He does everything I'm doing. Just as like the insurance like I'm doing. I'm removing amalgams. You are too. Everything I do, he does too. Apparently we're both going to learn a lot about Sibo now.

Yeah, very, very nice. So, so basically. So let's. Let's also note that a lot of people have food poisoning. Never get Sibo. Okay. Bazillions of people on the planet right now, parasites not expressing a problem. They are living peacefully in harmony in the, in the kingdom. So it really has to do with what. What we're talking about. Your genetics, your expression. Okay, you know, what was your lifestyle growing up? My husband grew up in a paper mill town in West Virginia. Yeah, he's going to have more stuff potentially than someone who grows up in the prairies of, you know, I don't know where. Nirvana, serendipity, whatever. You get the idea. No, that's Shang. Very good. Anyway, so I. So what happens is some people take also the first treatment for sibo, and about a third of them, they're done. It's cool. They're like, oh, yeah, yeah. Why is everyone making a big deal about sibo? So what happens is, is that for the rest of us who are not so quickly cured, so to speak, you got to get that migrating motor complex moving. You have to reduce the bacterial overgrowth overload. And when those two things come together, your microbiome actually comes back into balance.

So when some people. I've definitely heard some people say, I have sibo, I have all the. Or they have all the symptoms. They don't even know they have sibo. And they. But now they're just taking lots of probiotics or eating fermented food and feeling worse. Why does that happen?

So there's an overgrowth of fermentation, small intestine bacterial overgrowth. You are a microbrewery. And if you add for me, particularly fermented foods, I see it does not go well.

Wow.

Sibo. In the future, after you have more harmony in your microbiome, a little bit of fermented food could be perfect. Or it's not for you. You have to really, like, talk about a micro dose. Feel free to do like, teeny, tiny little dose to see how you do.

Wow.

Like an eighth of a teaspoon to.

Get of you downing your sauerkraut or your kombucha, thinking you're doing a healing thing, and you're wondering why you're bloated. This is what's happening.

It. It definitely could be. And maybe timing, I think, is the key there. So wait till you clear the sibo, get some, you know, good microbiome balancing from just like, existence. And then you could check that.

How else can we get sibo? Can you get. Is it contagious? Can you get it from. If you don't have food poisoning? Like, how else does that come into.

The adhesions, traumatic brain injury, and the.

Opioids that you said?

Ok, Right. Because it's all slowing the migrating motor complex. And when you're not.

What's a migrating motor complex? I want to make sure I'm understanding.

Yeah. It's a sweeping motion of the small intestine. Think of it as like a microperistalsis. Dr. Mark Pimentel calls it like the white crumb waiter or waitress that. A white, white tablecloth waiter that comes and sweeps the crumbs.

Okay.

Before your next meal or next course, that is what the Migrating motor complex does it sweeps.

So that works in your intestines after you eat. Is that if it's working correctly?

Yes. The small intestine has a sweeping motion. You know, when you hear gurgling in your tummy?

Yes.

Layman terms, that's the migrating motor complex.

Wow.

Yeah.

Even when you're hungry, you hear the gurgling, though, is it do that then too?

Well, interestingly enough, the only time that the migrating motor complex activates is when you have no food in your stomach. So I have this theory about why intermittent fasting makes people feel so fantastic. Lots of reasons. And one of them is because you're giving that migrating motor complex a rest to activate, actually, because it saying logically, think about it. If you have calories, if you have food in your stomach, your body needs time to digest it. So you wouldn't want to do a. Then you want to wait. So it happens about every four or five hours, depending on your.

Got it. Okay, lots of questions here. What happens if you do not try treat sibo? What happens if you ignore it?

Well, other than the bloating. And it can lead to malnutrition. Malnutrition, Malnourishment. Because those microbes, or the archai, which is another, like, organism, can eat your food, eat the nutrition out of it. The. I said before about the, like, rosacea, restless leg syndrome, weird. B12 levels, low ferritin. I mean, it's really important to take care of it. And you don't even need to know the underlying cause to take care of it. It does help.

Plus, you might have really smelly toots. I'm just gonna put it out there. You can. So for the sake of your partner and your family, we have to fix it.

Yeah. And that being said, some people with SIBO never fart because they're. It's so stuck. Nothing is moving.

Wow.

Right? This motility issue, now you mentioned that.

Sometimes it's like at the end of the day, you feel it more. Why is that?

Well, just me. Because you've had food in your stomach in the morning, let's say, for breakfast. And it's. You're. You're having a fermentation cycle. So some people feel it at night. Worse. Some people feel it all the time. Worse. It's not always really dictated by time of day. It's.

How do we.

This overgrowth.

How do we test to know we have it?

Okay, good. Breath testing. Not breast testing, breath testing. Sometimes people. What? So it's a SIBO breath test. And I mean, the Golden. You know, the golden top of the line is endoscopy. But since most people aren't going to.

Do that, so they can actually see it. Because, like, I know a colonoscopy or an endoscopy won't necessarily catch parasites. But you're saying endoscopy, it will catch sibo, but it will catch sibo.

You would have to culture it. And very few people out there are actually doing that kind of treatment. And also, who needs the propofol? You know, it's a whole thing. So do a SIBO breath test.

Okay.

And the labs that I like are Aerodiagnostics Lab, Massachusetts and then Trio Smart.

Okay.

Gemelli Labs. And you, you have three types of sibo, Hydrogen producers, methane producers, and hydrogen sulfide producers. You do a fast and a special diet for 24 hours. You drink a substrate lactulose, a sugar that those organisms absorb, and then they start farting out. Either methane, hydrogen.

Whoa.

Side. It's cool. Then you measure your breath every 20 minutes. The instructions are quite clear. You can do it at home. Some people do it at the doctor's office. I personally like to do it at home because it's a three hour test.

Okay.

So it's kind of nice to do that. I. When I did my first one, that was misread. I was in the receptionist area of a GI doctor's office. It was super awkward. So you get the results back and then that will tell you how high parts per million those gases are within your breath.

But this is the only way to test for this, this breath test. You can't do it on a GI mapping or.

Nope, it's not a organic acids test or the OAT test. It's not GI map. It is the breath test.

It's so hard for people. I mean, for me included, Siobhan and I've got access to a lot of stuff, but for everybody to just keep up with, like all the. There's so many tests for so many things. It's like, it's so hard to know, like, what are the most important. I mean, I've been telling people it's the most important to do like a blood check and like for your hormones, blood, and maybe a Dutch test for your urine and then for GI mapping for your gut. But I didn't even know about this, that, that we need this for.

Yeah, it's. I mean, you could maybe see an overgrowth of methane in the stool, but. Or the archaic. But really, you need a SIBO breath test.

Okay.

Yeah. If you Think you have it. Like you've ruled out parasites, let's say. Yeah. You have ruled out Candida, which is very hard to test for. You're doing the questionnaire. Maybe it is Sibo. The great news. There's great news here. There's so much hope, which is that there are three main treatments for Sibo. So you can absolutely treat it. You may have to do multiple rounds, which is very different than most conditions. Like, you know, we're used to, like take to call me in the morning. You have an herbal approach that you can do, which is cool because it's over the counter. Right. You have a pharmaceutical approach with very special antibiotics. And then there's something called the elemental diet. So let's start there because it's the most effective.

Okay. The elemental diet.

The elemental diet. It is a liquid diet, which sounds.

Totally count for how long?

17 days.

Oh, I would say seven hours. Fine, 17 days.

It's a long ass time.

Liquid diet for 17 days. I'm out. Just from the way you describe that.

I know, but let me just tell you, some people thrive with it because their food hasn't been getting absorbed for so long.

Okay.

And it's not your typical protein powder. It's literally the original food from feeding tubes. Like it's the elements of food. Like it's amino acids. Right. And in the beginning, when Dr. Pimentel figured this out for SIBO patients to actually starve of the overgrowth, there's kind of two approaches like you would.

With yeast too and whatever. Yeah.

You can still get your nourishment and you're getting these elements. The elemental diet, originally, you feel amazing. Well, it's socially and emotionally tough not to have table food. It's just. It's a weird.

Yeah. I can't do it for even seven hours. So I don't know how I do. 17 days.

There you go. Everybody's different. Right. If you're like, I am done with you, Sebo, go screw yourself. I'm doing the elemental diet. I'm doing what I'm makes. Then a lot of people say, I wish I had done this first because it is so effective. It used to taste like vomit.

Oh, gross. Even more less appealing.

I know. Because amino acids, some are sweet, some are horrible tasting.

Yeah.

There's now new formulations that taste like a very sweet milkshake. So there are like Dr. Riccio, integrative therapeutics. Dr. Pimentel, these people have developed elemental diets that powders that you add.

If we don't want to do the 17 day drinking, vomit or whatever, the things that taste good, elemental diet.

Let's not give it a bad name. It's already a struggle.

Okay, well, let's go. Let's talk about the pharmaceutical because I know even naturopathic doctors, sometimes they take the pharmaceuticals for this. Why is that? Because it's quicker. Is there a downside to that or what happens?

It is quicker. It's two weeks for treatment instead of 14 days. The. Excuse me, 30 days. The herbs are 30 days. Okay, two weeks pharmaceutical, which is xifaxan or rifaximin. Same thing. And neomycin, which is a traditional, you know, antibiotic. That is if you have the methane overgrowth, if you have just hydrogen, it's just the rifaximin. If you have hydrogen sulfide, it is adding shockingly bismuth, like is in Pepto Bismol, like this, like a day. Yeah, so, so what you're.

So if. So the antibiotic that, the medication formula, if you do that, you're going to have other issues though, because you're going to create other problems in your gut. Like so just because you're knocking out one thing, you're going to create another issue. Right.

So what happens is the bad players are so over skewed in the gut at this time. And Dr. Mark Pimentel and Dr. Ali Razai have actually mapped the microbiome of the small intestine, which is so cool at Cedar Sinai. And what happens is once these bad players are way over exaggerated within the gut, when they go away or like they're minimized because they are still present, you want them in the bouquet, but you don't want them taking over.

Yeah.

The microbiome goes back into homeostasis. It's phenomenal. So. And there are things you can do, right, to like, you know, you can do a megaspore, you could do, you know, some Saccharomyces boulardi. You could do like some mild approaches to probiotics while, while doing it. But rifaximin itself is really quite a miracle drug. It stays in the small intestine.

Okay, I've heard that about that. So that's. Okay, that makes sense. I didn't understand. I wanted to ask about that. So if we. Okay. Before I move on to the natural, the herbal remedies that you said are two weeks or four weeks or whatever it is that you said four weeks when you said something like depending on the overgrowth, like if it's hydrogen, this might explain why some people, like there's a lot of trends that are out there. People just start jumping into the trend, like hydrogen water. And if you have overgrowth of that and you're drinking lots of hydrogen, why are you going to create a bigger problem? Right.

I have not talked to anyone who can answer that question. I just don't do it. Okay, I understand exactly why you're saying that, and it makes sense to me, but I have not found anyone either way to be able to confirm or deny.

Okay, well, I will speak for myself. Okay. I got all into hydrogen. Now I don't have sibo, but I had small levels of H. Pylori. And I was like, why? The hydro water is supposed to be amazing. So I'm like, I'll drink it all day long. Like, I just literally brought that bottle with me everywhere. I brought it to the restaurant, I bought it, like. And then all of a sudden, I was like, having major, like, heartburn and stomach pain. I was like, what is going on? And then I stopped the hydrogen water and it went away. So now hydrogen water, I'll do one a day, but not all of that. So I think it's just adding fuel. Like, the problem is. And I'm guilty of it too, when we hear something and we learn something, we're like, oh, biohack. Or this is a we. I don't just do little, but I do a lot of it. And then that can create problem.

You're right. And so that's why we like to test, not guess. And sibo, when you test and you get a positive diagnosis, it's actually a weird relief because you can actually treat it. Like there. How many conditions do we know that have three successful treatments?

Yeah, they. There's not choose from. Yeah, lots of trials. Okay, so let's talk about the herbal one.

Okay, so the herbal is a combination usually of Allison, which is the active ingredient, garlic. Don't eat garlic. That is going to make you feel like crap because of the special kind of carbohydrate in it. But the medicinal aspect of garlic in usually Ali Max pro and Ali Med, same company that combined with foil of oregano or sometimes this is actually a drug, alinea, which is a parasite medication. The others are berberine, you know, these sort of famous gut pathogen killers. It's, you know, sibo's not an infection, it's an overgrowth. And there is a distinction. But those are some of the main herbs. And you do them for a month and then you. So after every. Everyone after every one of these treatments retest. Because as I said before, the Gas levels come down, but not always enough to give you, like, a negative SIBO breath test. So you need to sort of track how fast it's coming down.

So this is good. This is super helpful. Now, what happens if you don't test and you're like, quick start personalities, and I'm guilty of this sometimes. And you're like, I'm just going to jump in and treat it. Could that go bad? Well, what if.

What if you have a. Yeah.

So then you're going to create a problem.

Okay, well, the other thing is, some of the symptoms I've described also mimic ovarian cancer. I mean, like, oh, wow scenario.

So you want to, like, really do your. Your research hat on and make sure that's why. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's like. I mean, most Sibo breath tests around 300 bucks, I think. You know, again, this is not pocket change rolling around in the bottom of my purse. I get that.

However, but if you have these symptoms and you. Because I hear that women describing this a lot.

That.

And that. What. What happens wrong. I know you listening are doing this. A lot of you, they just go, one stop. My ob gyn. Must be my hormones. It must be this. So what I'm hearing is you go, fine, you go to your ob gyn, you check your ovarian, you make sure ovaries are okay, your pap smear, whatever. That's all good. Before you just go guessing that it's hormones. This is worth testing. And no.

Yeah. If you have those symptoms, for sure. I just went to my ob gyn. God love her. She knows nothing about sibo.

Yeah, most don't.

But. Yeah. And seriously, how much time in the day does the woman have? So she. I mean, I'd love it if she knew about sibo. My GP knows about Sibo because her daughter hasn't. I gave her the book. My gastro sort of knows about Sibo. Gave him the book of a new gastro. So, you know, we. We have to take on the responsibility. Like, we need another responsibility. Right, but of training the people around us.

Yes.

And help.

Yeah. And not being scared to ask the questions. And if it doesn't feel right, the answer they give you, don't let that shut you down either. Because, like, you might. If you're. If you have these symptoms and you're like, hey, I think I might have Sibo. And they don't say, let's do a breath test, you can ask for that. You can say, I want. I need to get this right.

And if they're like, I. I don't know what that is, or we don't do them in the office. Well, why don't you just sign this requisition form and I'll get one shipped right to my house. You know that you go to Belly Labs, they have requisition forms. It's aerodiagnostics. You can reverse engineer. Call them. See who in there in your area has the Quintron equipment and are doing Sibo breath tests. I reverse stuff all the time. That way. Yeah.

So good. Siobhan, this has been awesome. Where. Okay. I know you have a book coming out. Another book.

Well, I have a book coming out on how to live a more spiritual life. Despite. Okay, that's not finished yet. But the book Healing Sibo definitely covers.

Okay, so we want to.

Yeah.

So you're just. I. I love you. You're.

I.

You're. You're like typical entrepreneur where you go deep on some varying topics that are your excitement and they might not go together, but they do go together in some. Some interesting ways. So I love it. I love. I'm going to check out your new book too. That's amazing. So. Okay, so Healing Sibo. We want it. Where can we get it?

Amazon, Barnes and Noble. I saw some in Target one day. That was fun. You know, they're in libraries. It's in the library. So.

Okay. And where can where people want to reach you, follow you? Where do you want them to go?

I would love to have you go to cbosos.com we've got tons of masterclasses there, tons of free info there. Also, if you want to go granular and get in my 30, 000 person Facebook group where we are totally nerding out about Sibo. It's Sibo SOS community on Facebook, but it's not amazing. Tons of stuff on the website Sibo sos.

Thank you, Siobhan, so much. Thank you, thank you.