Not Today Cancer! Navigating Cancer In The Family With Jen & Darren Delvaux

Today on Listen Up, I've got my friends Jen and Darren. And can you imagine for a moment if you were given 18 months to live, you had one of the worst diagnosis from your doctors and you were told you have 18 months to live, like what that would do to you, what that would do to your family. Jen and Darren are here today because 13 years ago, Darren was given 18 months to live with a cancer diagnosis and he's here 13 years later and he's thriving right now. And his wife Jen, who I have on has also recently navigated a cancer diagnosis. So I have so many questions for them about their, about their energy, about their mindset, about their journey, about their relationship, about those gut wrenching conversations that you have with a spouse when you're faced with this. So thank you both for being here today.

We are so excited to be here.

All right, so I am going to just start from the beginning, you know, take us back. Like, take us back to that time. So 13 years ago.

Yeah. It's so crazy. So with Darren, it was all such a whirlwind. We had no idea what we were dealing with. When he was first diagnosed, it was in 2009. He was going. Just didn't feel right. Like he was having problems like writing emails, simple words weren't coming to him. So he just went to his doctor and said something's not right. And his doctors. And he said, he didn't tell me this.

Yeah, I, I just, I want to tell this part. So I went to the, my family doctor and I said, you know what? I think I have brain cancer. And he kind of laughed. He's, you know, he's like, there's a 99.9% chance you don't have brain cancer. And he was right. I was right.

What made you think that? What made, did you. Did you know what brain cancer was? Had you like what was, what was the. Were you gone Google, like what happened that made you say.

I know that just because I know like how my brain normally functioned. And I mean, I was reading backwards, I wasn't understanding things. And I'm like, it has to be some mix. Something's going on where everything's just all jumbled up. And that just, that's the first thing that came to my head.

He's very in tune with his body. It's crazy through this whole thing. So he did, we just did a random MRI and it happened to be 9 o' clock at, at night. He scheduled that and it was on my birthday. So we went out to dinner Celebrated. We were meeting friends after. We were just going to go to this quick, silly little mri and we get called up to the ER and four doctors come in and they're like, he has a mass on his brain.

So during the mri, which they usually wait to read. So this was an urgent.

They were shocked that he walked in there.

Wow.

It was tilting his cranium and. And there was a lot of swelling. They're like, I cannot believe he doesn't have a massive headache, that he hadn't had a seizure like that. He actually walked in. There was. Wow. Yeah, wow.

So what was going through both of your minds at the time when they said this for me?

Are you talking about the.

Like, how. When you were first diagnosed, like, when they first told. What.

You know, you're in the MRI and they're saying you've got this huge mass on your brain where you got to go to the ER right now? Like, what was. What were you going right to? Oh, my gosh. I knew it. Or were you scared? Like, what. I'm just so curious. All the emotions and what was going through your mind, Jen, I was shocked.

I knew when we got to the ER that something wasn't right. And, I mean, I knew when. When the. When the tech who had brought me to. To him, I was like, why? I thought he was coming out to me. And Darren walked out of the little dressing room with an IV in his arm. I was like, what is going on? Why do you have this IV in your arm? He said, I don't know. They saw something. We get escorted up to er, we are treated like kings and queens, like water and blankets. And I'm like, this isn't good. And then when the four doctors came in and told us that I literally left my body, it was the weirdest experience. I got violently ill. I looked at him and Darren was so calm, it was insane. He's been calm throughout this entire process. Of course, he's had his. We've had, like, mini cry sessions together, but I could not believe how calm you were. What was going through your head?

The reason I was so calm is because I already had an inkling that that's what it was. And so I was. I was almost relieved to know, like, if they would have came back and said, everything's fine, I would have not been very happy about that.

Yeah. Like, you wanted a reason for feeling this way and being this way.

Yeah. And so finally, you know, because I, like, I said, I knew it from the start and. Yeah. So it was just kind of A relief for me, but, you know, for Jenny, it was a totally different story.

Total panic mode. And so with that first surgery, we didn't know what we were doing. It was kind of an emergency thing, so we just did it. Like, we didn't really know what we were doing. And then I went into, like, research mode. I'm like, a researcher. Like, if something goes wrong, especially now, I know. I'm like, what do I need to know? And so his. His was a grade two. And they were like, we didn't do any other treatment because they said, you know what? It's a slower growing. Nothing may happen. It came back in 18 months. And interestingly enough, he did an MRI. He was having some seizure activity, and the doctor said, you're fine. You're good. The MRI looks good. And Darren was like, no, it's not. No, it's not good. There's something wrong. We got a second opinion. And, in fact, it was, like, bad that we had. And we had to go to MD Anderson for him to have an awake brain surgery. He was awake for three hours.

Awake. Brain start. Do. Do you feel that? Do you know what's happening during that? And why do they keep you awake during that?

They. They keep. They kept me awake because they want to touch that. They use a probe to touch and activate parts of the brain to make sure they don't affect anything. So if they wanted to, they'll tell me, like, they want me to start talking. And if all of a sudden a bunch of garbage comes out, they know that they can't.

Got it. Okay. And did you feel this when they were doing this?

No, because there's no.

Yeah, you can't feel anything in your brain.

In the brain.

No pain. So they did it. So what they do is they put you to sleep, they cut you.

Okay.

And they bring you back up, and then they. Once. Once the skull cap is okay, it's removed.

Yeah.

And they wake you up, and then they talk to you, and they're touching certain areas. Like, he had to do stuff with his hands, too, to make sure that it was still moving properly. And, yeah, he does have some memory of that, but not. Not many people do.

No, no, no.

I remember the questions that they asked. And I remember talking to the surgeon at the time. I'm, you know, like, how's it going up there? And he's talking back to me. And so it was. It's a unique experience. And, you know, I've had it done twice. Well, I do. I remember bits and pieces of it, but not the entire.

Yeah.

Wow. And you had little kids at the time. Your kids were young when happening.

Yes, they were very young. When, when Darren was first diagnosed, I think Drew was like three or four and Maddie was like six or seven. And then it came back 18 months later. So. And this one was a little bit scary. He had a lot of complications after it, like a stroke. And he was on chemo and radiation for a year. Honestly, that year I didn't know if he was going to make it. And then he miraculously did because that's who, that's who Darren is he just surviving. And then it came back. It's supposed to. Typically it was a grade three comes back in five years, three to five years. And he went eight. And then it just came back recently in 2019 as a grade four. He did the awake brain surgery. And here he is like just doing amazing. He deals with some short term memory issues and some confusion. Like we laugh a lot. Some.

Yeah. So Darren, what has been your belief around this all these years? Like, have you. And meaning, do you have this fear of it or do you have this. It is what it is. I'm getting through it. Like, what's your outlook around it? Before we get into even what happened with Jen recently. But what's your belief around the cancer?

My thing was always it is what it is and because there's nothing I can do to control it. And it's actually made my life and Jenny's life, I believe, better. I mean, I am happier now than I was before my diagnosis. And it's like, you know, we know that we're going to have setback or we're going to have setbacks with it just by the nature of the disease. So I, I've accepted it a long time ago and I live a happier, healthier life now because of it.

It's funny, when he was first diagnosed, so when the kids were really small and the doctor said, you have 18, 18 months to live, he was like, okay, well that's not going to happen. So what do we need to do? Because he was like, there's no way. Like. And so he has always had the mindset, always had these goals, like, not going to happen. I need to see the kids graduate. So I think that's always been in his mind too. Like he's never really believed it. And, you know, I feel like one of the brain searchers, they tweaked something to make him super happy.

It's actually true, I swear.

And did you tell them to do this or that you just. You saw something different?

No, it's like I. I mean, I sing all the time. I wake up, I'm so happy.

And you didn't before surgery, or did you not sing before?

No, I mean, I do, but, I mean, now it's kind of next level.

Okay.

I mean, it's like 24 7. I'm singing, I'm happy, and, you know.

Really?

Yeah.

So, like, it's going to become an elective surgery one day. People go in and have their tweak to happiness.

But, yeah, it's just. It's something that I can't explain. I try not to be, like, I'm not fake about it. Like, oh, my God, this is, you know, the greatest thing in this. I truly do feel that way. And, you know, most people don't. And it's just something that I was kind of given, I guess.

Yeah. But before I was even diagnosed, when he was. When it got to that grade four. Because statistically, if you look at glioblastoma's grade four brain cancer, the life expectancy is not good. I mean, there are people that will extend it by three or four years, but the survival rate, if you look at it, it's pretty shocking. So we knew, like, things weren't as good after that diagnosis. And one night, we. It was like a Friday night. We put on some music, had a glass of wine, and he always jokes around about his funeral, like he always has, or he'll say funny things, and I'm always like, ha, ha, ha. Like, laugh it off. Like, you're fine. And this one night, he's. A song came on, and he said, I want this song at my funeral. And I was like, darren, stop. And he's like, no, I really want to have this conversation with you. And I'm like, really? And it got so deep. We talked about, like, truly what he wants at his funeral. He even talked about, like, who he wanted me to marry. I'm like, oh, my God, stop. I know. And he's just. Which we're not even going to go there with that. But I mean, like, it was this. It's a. It's a conversation that we feel grateful and lucky that we got to have because most people never have that conversation because they're too scared. But, I mean, we talked about, like, are you scared of death? Like, are you scared of these possibilities? Like, we came up with signs, like, when he's trying to connect with me. It was crazy. But then here he is, just doing great, and I think he's just going to live forever and he's just a miracle.

But so, but I. How. What a great blessing because. Yeah, you're right. Right. Couples don't ever have that conversation and maybe, hopefully it's not going to be for another 50, 60 years. Darren. But what a gift you gave Jenny, Jen, that she would know that. That something that people torture themselves with like what should I do? Or how do I plan or what do I. What's next? And you gave her that gift.

Yeah, it was, it was a gift.

Yeah, for sure.

So do you believe that the reason you are here and functioning and happy and healthy right now and yes, I understand that it's still very present with you, but do you believe that that's because of advanced medical treatment? Do you believe it's because of diet? Do you believe it's because of your belief and your mindset? What is your belief around that?

It's a combination of everything. And so I used to be a pharmacist and so I still have that, that mind of a pharmacist where drugs treat everything. Now Jen is the total opposite. And so her and I like, we make a good couple because of it.

Because we're opposites.

We're the total opposites. So I think she brings me that spirituality. She brings the health and fitness stuff and it's just, it's just been a good combination for both of us.

You know, it's really interesting. Natalie's. It's for him. I 100% believe it's belief in mindset. I really do because. And I look at him as almost like I look up to him because when I was diagnosed and we'll get there in a minute, I was like, I need to change everything. And he didn't change anything. I mean, maybe a little bit with his nutrition, but because of me, because I'm cooking and so he's going to eat what I cook. He will eat all the treats and have the cocktails and he's just like a happy go, lucky guy. But it's his belief, it's his mindset. Yeah. Where I felt the need like I wanted to control. He believed.

Yes.

Everything the doctors were doing was going to work. Everything. He's always had that belief.

I love that so much. And I've seen it firsthand too many times not to believe that. I think the power of what we believe is so. Everything. Everything. I really believe. If you believed 13 years ago that 18 months was it for you, it didn't. Wouldn't matter what you ate, did, moved, saw, you would not Be here. I believe that if you believe it, it's. That's what happens. I do truly believe that.

One little note to just share with you is that my stepmom was diagnosed with brain cancer when he was going through treatment after a second brain surgery. And she was diagnosed right off the bat, the glioblastoma, grade four. And she said to the doctor, when is this going to kill me? And she literally died on that basis that day, nine months later. She was just focused on that. It changed her. But I mean, that is truly. She knew that it was over for her.

So there's people listening right now that are going either, yes, yes, I hear you, or there are people that are really mad right now. Like they either lost somebody or they're fearful and they're going, that's not true. It's not in. It's not in our heads. And that's not what I'm saying, by the way, that it's in our heads. I'm just saying I'm bringing up the idea that what we focus on, we can create more of. What would you say to that person? Any. What would you. What words of wisdom would you give that person that has that anger around that?

I'm so glad you brought that up because that is the truth. People will call us toxic positivity. And I'm not saying that. There are not people out there in a situation that don't want to be here, that aren't fighting for their life. They want to be here with their kids and their family. And unfortunately, it wasn't just mindset for them. You know what I mean? So that just doesn't happen all the time. And I give them love, but Darren and I are both under the mentality like, hey, none of us have any idea how long we are going to be here on Earth. Nobody. And so why not have a really good mindset and try to alleviate that worry as much as you can. Because all worry does is cause disease and just be happy. And I know sometimes it's easier said than done, but I truly believe in the fake it until you make it. I truly believe you need to start living as you want to live before maybe you're even there. But again, it's nothing about. There are many people who wanted to be here and they fought like hell and they're not. And it's not just about their belief or mindset. So I'm so glad you brought that up. It's just unfortunate for some people.

My. And again, not speaking from experience with what you've navigated. But my. My thought process is, why not believe? Like, why not what? You have nothing to lose by believing and by giving up and not believing, you're. It doesn't help that. So to me, it's why not? Why not trust and believe?

Yes. I love that. It's the truth.

Okay, so you've learned to navigate and live clearly with us. It's become very much part of you. And then you, Jen, being this health icon and into. You do all the right things that your body looks like, you know, like you're super fit, and you. You've maintained your weight, of course, and you look younger than your age, and you do all the natural things, and you're moving your body, you're doing all the things, and then, boom, you get hit with cancer. Tell us about that.

My gosh. Okay, so first of all, it was just a routine mammogram, and I didn't think anything of it. And I went in for that mammogram. They called me back a few days later, and they're like, hey, we see something. I was like, okay, I didn't think anything of it. I just. You know, a lot of people get called back. It's. The machines are so good now, and they just see things. And just to double check. And the interesting thing, though, she said, do you want to know which breast? And I was like, sure. And in my head, I was like, she's going to say my left. I know she's going to say my left. She's going to say my left. Even though I'd never felt anything, there was no lumps, nothing. And she said, it's your left. And I was like, oh, okay. Went to the repeat mammogram. And the facility where we went, you do the repeat mammogram, if they still see it, then you go to the ultrasound, and they still see it there. Then you see the doctor. So you're always hoping you don't see the doctor. So I go in for the mammogram. She's like, yep, we still see it. Go to the ultrasound. And I'm kind of a little bit more nervous now. And I'm laying on the table, and it's Covid. You know, it's like, Darren can't be there. I'm by myself. And I look at the girl, the attack, and she's really serious, and she's staying in one spot for a long time. And I'm like, oh, gosh. Okay. All right. And she's like, I'm going to go get the Doctor and I'll be back. I'm like, oh, great, great. So she comes back in with the doctor and like we said earlier about belief and how doctors talk to you, he was the nicest, sweetest man, but had the saddest look on his face, like I had two weeks to live. You know what I mean? I was like, I just. Anyway, so he comes and he's like, we're really suspecting this is breast cancer. Like, you know, we need you back ASAP for a. The, the biopsy. And of course, yes, it was. I was shocked. I was.

They need, they need some psychology training. I feel like on how they present.

Things, you know, when I saw my breast surgeon, I walked in there like still fear ridden because of the other doctors and the sad. And, and she was so amazing. She's like, girlfriend, this is no big deal. We're gonna kick its ass.

Yes.

That was the best so good I could have ever heard. I was like, okay, yes. Okay, we got this. What do we have to do? Tell me what to do.

Yeah, we'll do it. Yes. Y difference.

Yeah.

Because I really feel any people should leave their doctor if their doctor is not talking to them like that.

Yeah, exactly. That's why I went to. We didn't. Like my first surgery.

Yeah. So we switched.

Yeah, we switched.

You have to like, people do think that you have to follow through whatever the doctor says. You do not. If you are not feeling it in your intuition, there's bells going off. You need to leave and find somebody else. You are interviewing the doctor that you are in charge. They are not. If you don't believe what they are suggesting. You got to go with what you believe. Yes.

And you can leave. You can always leave an appointment. You can always. And you can always put your doctor and you don't have to have a treatment for second, third, fourth opinions.

Yes, absolutely.

That's probably one of the biggest things that we've learned is that we are in charge of the situation. The doctor who, you know, there's great.

Doctors out there, but there are a lot that just don't have good bedside manners. So the interesting, the part that you asked, like me being the health coach and like out there in the world preaching health, like, how. How does somebody like me get cancer? And I got that question a lot. They're like, what's the point? What's the point of eating healthy and working out if we're just going to get cancer? Working out. Eating healthy has so much more to do with cancer. Is. Can happen to anybody. First of all, but it is your. For me, it's therapy. My workouts are therapy. It gives me energy, it makes me happy. Eating healthy, nutrition gives me control. Like, the one thing I did change is I did take away red meat. I went dairy free just for a while. Because I'm the type of person that I'm like, okay, I'm going to do what the doctor says here because I believe what they're saying, but what can I do? And this gave me peace over my diagnosis instead of fear. I think a lot of people who don't do anything after they're diagnosed, those are the people that are stuck in fear. But when you're working out and you're taking care of your body and you're putting good, healthy ingredients into your body, that gives you a sense of control because you feel out of control when you're diagnosed.

Years ago, years ago, before I moved to California, I had a boyfriend who always complained his right arm hurt. He'd always say, my right arm hurts. And he would go to chiropractic. And the whole time I dated him, his right arm hurt. Years later, I learned, well, after he was no longer in my life, I was in California, he's back east. I learned that he was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer. And I talked to him really in a, in a really grave time for him with the stage four. And he was somebody the whole time I dated him. He was meditating and he was ate all organic and natural and super fit and strong and just really this epitome of health. And I asked him on that call, I said, how do you feel about healthy eating now? How do you feel about all the things that you did? And he said to me two different things that really stood out. One, I don't regret one thing that I did there. One thing, because he goes, I believe I could have had this diagnosis 20 years earlier had I not been doing all those things. He said that to me. And he also said he was fully going to enjoy life and do whatever the heck he wanted. Now he felt he had done his part with healthy eating and he was now having cheeseburgers. That's what he said. And I remember him saying that. But that really stood out about the. I could have years ago had this. And he believed it had been put off that long because of those habits.

I think of that all the time. So I have a before story where I was not healthy. I had like an overweight time, you know, after the kids, where the baby weight just doesn't need to be there. Anymore a couple of years later. And so I thank God. I thank God every day that for me, when I was diagnosed, the tweaks I had to make were so easy because I had all the other things dialed in. So getting your nutrition and health on track before you get hit with the diagnosis or something happens is key because you are prepared for it. And I still did do some different things. I think I did things that I hadn't done before because I was already doing the healthy stuff. So then I started adding in, like, energy healing and meditation and tapping and saunas, like, things that were different. Acupuncture. But that, again, helped in that healing modality. That just gave me that peace that I was doing something. So. Yeah.

Darren, how did you look at Jen's diagnosis? And what was. What did you think when she learned this? Were you in fear around her? Did you have a knowing that she'd be fine? What was your feeling?

I was pretty scared because of the fact that. So we know a lot about brain cancer, Jane and I. I mean, we study everything. But when it got down to breast cancer, I had no idea because the terminology is different, like, all the grading systems and, you know, all that goes into it. And so I. I knew nothing. And so, you know, they. They mentioned, you know, chemo, radiation, all that stuff. I had no idea the severity of what it was at the point. So I was probably more. I shouldn't say more scared, but I was about as scared as you were. I mean, I was just very uninformed.

Well, and I think it's because, you know, he has not been able to work since his second brain surgery. So I support our family, and I kind of take care of a lot of things. Like, he's like the dad, the amazing dad to the kids, and he's just there and the fun guy and, like, helps, you know, like, he does a lot. But I'm, like, the one that's kind of in charge of most things, just because it's not true, just because my brain can handle it and his can't. And so I think that's what put the fear. But it was interesting, too, because I was so scared to tell my kids because they look to me as, like, nothing against you, Darren. I love you. But they look to me as that strong person for the family. And they were like, oh, you're gonna be fine. No big deal, Mom. You got this. Like, neither one of them. Or at least they didn't tell me they were scared, which, again, was huge.

So you almost weren't allowed to have the fear or need support or any of that, because you're like, I have to be the glue and hold everything else together.

Yeah. And it's. It's. It was not enjoying for me, but I. I was so happy that I could help her.

He liked taking care of me.

Yeah. Because it was kind of like, I really need to pay her back because she. I mean, the things that Jenny has done for me, it's like she kept me alive. She saved my life twice. And that's a whole nother thing down the road. But it's. I'm so grateful for. But I was really in a spot that I didn't know what to do, what I would be, what I could. I wouldn't know how to.

It's okay. I got you. He did great. So he all of a sudden became the caretaker. And I think he kind of liked it. He liked. He liked switching the roles for a minute. And then finally, like, after a year of me going through all the healing stuff and getting through all the treatments, I was like, okay, I'm done. I'm good.

Like, I was. I was the boss at one point. Like, you couldn't. Like, I could tell you anything, and you'd have to listen to.

I know. It's so funny, but it is weird. I will tell you, those that are listening that have gone through a cancer diagnosis as a couple or even just one of you, like, for many years, we talked a lot about. I talked to a lot of people about, like, how to be a caretaker to your spouse and what happens when you lose that love. Not that we ever lost love. The romance.

Yeah.

Because our roles changed.

Yeah.

So after Darren's second surgery, he had that stroke where he didn't know how to do anything. Like, he would get on an elevator, and he'd be like, I don't even know what I'm doing in here.

Wow.

Yeah. I had to teach.

You had another child for a while.

Totally.

For like, two years.

Yeah, about a year. Not two years. So I had to then teach him, like, how to read. And. Well, he still doesn't know how to read. That doesn't work. His work. He. So where his tumor is located, a little bit has to do with where speeches. So sometimes, you know, he forgets and. But anyway, he didn't know how to do anything, so I had to teach him things over again. And I saw a lot. Like, at one point, like, during that stroke, he was like, oh, my gosh, save me. Like, I'm dying. Like, I need help. Like, you need. And he's screaming out for hours. And so I had to do EMDR therapy, which I did with Dr. Michaela to get rid of that, because a whole year of this was our marriage. And we had to figure out, like, okay. Because then he was getting better.

Yeah.

I truly thought I was going to lose him.

Yeah.

And I was almost trying to even. I don't. I didn't even want that because I was so scared to get that close to him. Then. What if I lose him?

To go through the pain again to keep.

Correct.

Yeah.

Right. So it took a lot of therapy. It took a lot of date nights. It takes a lot of open conversation. I mean. I mean, even for me, after I was diagnosed with breast cancer, I was like, my breasts are not sexy right now. Like, they just tried to kill me like that. Like, that took a little bit. So we've had to go through this a few times, like, navigating our marriage and getting back to that romance, that couple.

See, the thing is, like, for guys, like, they're always sexy.

I mean, I don't like my husband.

Yeah.

So he's always ready.

And I know. Remember that from, like, breastfeeding and stuff. And we're like, they're not. They're not for you, but.

Right. Yes, yes, totally. It's the same thing. Like, I was like, yeah, it was a hard thing, but. So we had to really start dating each other again. I had to do therapy. So I highly recommend a couple going through it because you can get it back. You know, I hear a lot of women, or not women, a lot of people that have gone through divorce after a diagnosis, you can get it back, but it takes work. And again, it's one of those things that you have to fake it. I'm sorry, Darren. Until you make it. You know what I mean? It just takes.

Well, it's the same as the belief that the belief of I'm gonna survive. It's the same thing. The belief that I'm going to be in a thriving marriage, I'm gonna. It's a belief believing in it.

Yeah.

And another thing is, on the opposite side is I. I mean, I was down to 135 pounds when, you know, when I was really sick. And it's like I didn't feel attractive at all. So I was almost thinking, like, I'm letting her down. So it kind of went both ways. It's like I was very self conscious because I wanted, you know, me to be there for her.

Sure.

Yeah.

So it was, you know, it's. The therapy went Both ways, you know, we, you know, I had to get over some stuff too, just for my confidence, so I could, you know.

Yeah, it was. It's a thing, like, it is a hard thing to get through and. But you can get through. You just have to do the work. You can get your marriage back. And, you know, the third. After his third brain surgery, we didn't have any issues because he healed so quickly, but it's just getting back on it. Like, once they start feeling better, you know, people go through. It's not. Doesn't have to be cancer. They could go through some sort of disease within their body or. Or pain or whatever they're going through. You have to make that quality time with your. With your spouse.

Yeah.

Yeah. What would you give advice. Give us a little advice for somebody newly diagnosed. Newly diagnosed. They just learned either spouse or maybe they're alone going through this. What. What would you tell them knowing what you know now?

Yeah. Let out the emotions. I really. You know, there are going to be times where you're going to need to be strong and it's okay to be really scared in the beginning and cry. You need to let it out. Like, I feel like for a long time, even with Darren, when he was diagnosed the second time, I was the strong one. I didn't let any of my emotions out. And I. I have. I had a lot of stuck energy because of that. So you need to release it. You need to feel all the emotions. It's okay to be angry, but then you need to dive into the research and not Google. I don't recommend Googling your diagnosis. There is a lot of stuff out there that is incorrect.

Really? Because that's the first thing I think everybody does, is they go Google.

I did not.

If you Google my diagnosis, it's not fun to look.

Now I did his. I googled his. So, in fact, another good point is to have your partner or mom or sister or somebody else know the facts. I just interviewed a woman who doesn't even know what her diagnosis is. She's like, her husband knows.

Yeah.

She's like, I have anxiety and I have a little depression and I know my. Where my brain will go, so just don't tell me. Just tell me what I have to do. And she had a double mastectomy and she's like, I don't know. And I take some pill every night and that's all I know. And I think that's amazing.

Yeah.

So. But what we talked about earlier, which is so important, is your doctor and you need to be together on this. You guys are going through this together, so it needs to be a good relationship. If you don't feel it, find somebody else. The other thing is be an advocate for yourself. Don't let people tell you no. If you feel like something's wrong, listen to your gut and go get a second opinion, a third opinion. They're not always right. Or if they're pushing up appointments for months. No, just call every day. Try to get in. Just be an advocate for yourself.

Jenny's very good at getting what she wants when it comes to that stuff, because I'll say, jenny, just wait for. I have an appointment. You know, just. I'll just wait a week. And she's like, no, no. Yeah.

The other thing is, I get embarrassed sometimes. The other thing is really slowing down. Really slowing down. Like, take a deep breath and.

Was that hard for you, John, initially, to learn that skill?

It wasn't the second. I never did this ruder. And the second I was diagnosed, I had fear. And then I just stopped, and I slowed down, and it felt like I was moving slow. And I started meditating. I got this app, unplug, and I dove deep into that. And for the first time, like, I've always wanted to meditate. I always tried. My brain is like, oh, no, I got to go do this, this, this. I'm out. Like, I would give it, like, a minute now. I do this every day. And so just like, learn from this and grow from it and figure out, like, okay, this sucks. This cancer diagnosis sucks. But what can the blessings be from it? Like, what can I learn? I hear so many times from women how much this has changed them in the most positive way that they. Some women are like, I wouldn't change my diagnosis. Darren says that.

So Jen's best friend is a very good friend of mine. And. And I. So I remember when this was all happening, when you were diagnosed, and I remember talking to her a little bit about it, and then I think I might have reached out to you or something. I didn't know I knew you as more of an acquaintance initially, but I just started following, like, your journey through it, and I was so empowered by you just because I watched how she showed up, and it was like you shared things without sharing it. From a victim standpoint. It's. You were. She was like, this is what I'm navigating. This is what is. This is what I'm doing. This is what I'm learning. This is what I'm figuring out. And then she started focusing out Right away. Like, this is how I'm going to give back to others. And it was so impressive. And I. I believe that's what kept you out of doomsday, like watching that positivity. And I didn't find it toxic positivity at all. It was just. This is what it is. I don't know what I'm diving into, but I'm navigating and I'm going to share while I'm navigating it.

Absolutely. I think learning as you're going and then. And then figure out how you can be a light for others. Like, that was big for me too. Like learning, going and sharing what I'm learning with others. You know, this is why I wrote the book. I never thought. I'm not an author. I'm not a writer. And, you know, I have this book that's coming out.

What's it called?

Not Today Cancer.

Not Today Cancer.

Non typical survival guide for the girl that wants to thrive, not just survive. You know, I think so many people just survive their diagnosis. I want you to thrive after.

Can people order this book right now? Can they preorder it? How can they get it?

April 4th, I will have a link. I'm not sure when this going up.

But it's going to come out very soon. So we'll add it in, though. We'll add it.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's get it in. So Not Today Cancer. So you'll be able to get that. It sounds amazing. What else do you want people to. I want. I actually, I do have another question for you. I want to know how you talk to your kids about this. What do they think of cancer?

Yeah. When they were really young, we've always been open and honest. I really think that's important because I feel like sometimes people will hide it or they are scared to say cancer. And it's going to be a word that is around you a lot. So you have to be prepared to talk about it and. And be real. You can be honest and real. I mean, it depends. Depends on their age too. So I remember when Drew was 3 or 4, he was like, mom, can I catch this? I'm like, no, you can't. But, you know, like, when I was first diagnosed, I cried around Drew too. Like, it's okay to have those tears because they need to see your emotions.

Yeah.

I feel like people who don't tell them, listen, with social media today, they're going to find out, you know, or if they can hear you whispering, they're going to. They're going to think it might be something worse. So empowering them and letting them know, like, yeah, this is life. Life happens.

I think it would affect your health, too, to be hiding it, because that's another belief set. Like, I have something so bad I can't share it.

Exactly. And then our kids, I feel like what we gave them was the biggest gift in the world because they saw us deal with this diagnosis where we'd both then go down and he'd take a chemo pill and go down to the gym and he'd see me. They would see me doing all the things to make ourselves healthy, Personal development, like reading, like, all the things to make us happy and get through it. And so I feel like for them, it's just a lesson. And I think if we would have hid this, I don't know, that would not have done them any good.

And I think with. With Jen, she. I'm not saying, like, you change as a person, but when Jen does something, she goes 100% all in. So when, you know. I don't know how to say it.

Jen, I don't know what you're trying to say.

I know. You know, I'll come back to it, okay?

He loses his train of thought sometimes.

That's part of the deal.

What I want to say is that I know people probably tell you that you're inspiring. And I'm not even going to use the word inspiring because inspiring to me, doesn't help others. I think you're actually both very empowering because listening to both of you empowers me and empowers my listeners here. It empowers others to see how you're living, to see that they can do this, too. Like, you did hard stuff. You're doing hard stuff stuff. And look at how you are thriving right now. Inspiring is just looking at somebody like, that's their story. That's what they're doing. That's their journey. But I truly see you as you are fully both so empowering. And I want to acknowledge you for that because you are not only walking through it and setting an example for others, you are leading the way and showing others the possibility around this.

Thank you. Because that is truly my hope is I want to show women that what can be done. Because that's when I was diagnosed, what I was looking for. I didn't want to hear about your aunt or cousin or whoever that had passed away from. I wanted to hear stories of, like, I. It's 20 years since my diagnosis, and I'm kicking ass. Like, that's What I wanted, that's what I focused on. And so now I'm that for other people. So I appreciate that.

Since you brought that up, what should people not say to you when you are recently diagnosed with cancer? Let's bring that out.

Can I start?

Yes. Very first one.

This is the worst one ever.

Yes.

Someone told me I wouldn't wish brain cancer on my worst. My worst enemy.

Like, that's gonna make you feel better.

I was like, really? Did that really come out of your mouth?

Yeah. What's your prognosis? It's just not a good one because that's basically the same. When are you gonna die? No, it was so funny. Darren said, well, I'm just gonna say not good. About 18 months. He goes, and then see what they have to say.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, shut them up a little bit.

Other really important thing. And it was interesting. I did a whole podcast on this because it came to light. People feel bad or guilty because they have the good cancer, meaning it's a really low grade. And people will say, oh, well, you got good cancer. You'll be fine. But I don't care what kind of cancer. You hear the word cancer, it's with you for life.

Yes.

It changes you. And so I feel like that happens a lot. And I know people are trying to be really nice and they're trying to, like, say, you're going to do. You got this. And a lot of people, like, they think feel like that diminishes what they're going through.

What. What stood out for you is the right thing. Some people did that made you feel really good.

Well, okay, again, you're. You're going to heal. Hear all sorts of different opinions on this because some people do, like, totally to them, and. And I am the one that's, like, lifting. Get. Tell me I'm gonna kick ass. Like, lift me up.

Tell me what's possible. Tell me what's possible.

Yes. Yes. Like, that's what I wanted. The other thing not to say is, will you get a free boob job?

Oh, my gosh.

Do people say that or it's only hair. Like, the weird people say this stuff to you. Yes.

Wow.

And I didn't even have they say it to other. The hair thing was a big thing for me because, I mean, obviously, it's.

Like when someone has a miscarriage and, like, well, you're gonna have another. Like, people.

I don't know. People learn that.

Yeah.

Again, all they're trying to do is make light of it. They're not Trying to be intentions in the right place.

It's just not coming out right.

Correct. So it's a hard thing. And then people are like, well, I don't want to say anything because I'm scared. But you know what? All you have to do is say, I love you and I'm here.

Okay, I love that I love you and I'm here. And read. I'm going to say read the room. Read the room. Just check in, maybe ask them how I think, tell me if I'm wrong here. And maybe I am. But I think to me, if it's one of my friends, I think I would say be honest with them. I don't know my appropriate response, but I want to. I just want you to know I love you and I'm your friend and I want to be here for you. And I think. Yeah, I think that's how you. That's how you read the room. For anyone asking.

Yeah, because the other thing is people want to give you answers or advice and it's. Maybe you don't want that. Maybe you. So read the room. Ask the questions, ask what they need.

Yeah. And the other thing is, don't tell me, like, what supplement it just saved.

No, no essential oils. Don't send me your oil back. Don't tell me about your mask.

I have no idea how many like. Oh, gosh, essential oils.

Oh, I can't. I can't with that. And I. And I'm kind of half joking about it because I love essential oils, too. I think. Got it. But know everyone listening that you've been drinking the Kool aid about your essential oils. They add value, but they don't cure things for people, so. And you're not doctors telling people. So I get. I understand that trigger. I know with my disc rupture in my back and my surgeries, I can't tell you how many people sent me their oil for, like, free oil. Yeah. Yes.

Yes.

So. So, yes. Well, thank you both so much for being a stand for who you are and for empowering others and for truly caring and for doing the hard work yourselves. And I mean, wow, I learned a lot from you both today and I. I believe that you're touching a lot of people and really standing for empowerment and healing and I just want to acknowledge you for that. It's so incredible. And I hope everybody goes and gets your book. We are going to include a link. If you don't see it when this is released, it's going to get added in because I want to make sure everyone gets your book. What's it called again, Jen? Not Today. Cancer.

Cancer. Yeah.

Not Today. Cancer.

Yeah.

Amazing. Thank you both so much for being here today.

Thank you for having us. Thank you. Pray and hope that we can, like you said, empower other people that are going through this because you're not alone. And a lot of people feel alone in a diagnosis, so thank you.

Thank you.