Optimizing Your Workouts After Menopause: Expert Advice from Debra Atkinson @Flipping50TV​

Today I'm here with Debra atkinson from flipping 50. And I'm excited to dive into this conversation today because first of all, not only is she super crazy fit and looks amazing, but she's got so much information to share about what changes in exercise, especially as we're going through menopause and beyond and things that we need to know. There's so much confusion out there. Thanks for being on Today. That's so many questions for you.

Well, I'm ready to field them and thank you so much for having me.

So first of all, take us back because I know you've been sort of in the industry for years and years. You've been the go to expert. I want to know, first of all, years ago when you first started doing this, did you think things would change through perimenopause and menopause?

You know, No. I mean, whoever starts thinking like that, you know, in your 20, you just think, you know, this is, this is, this is the life. You know, I get to teach aerobics and dance around all day in tights and we wore our underwear on the outside of our tights.

We did. With the thumbs up.

That was a great idea.

The shiny leggings, I remember, you know, but no.

And I think even, oddly enough, and I think back, gosh, I wasn't very smart, was I? Cause, you know, going through pregnancy and then postpartum, you go through all kinds of changes. Why would we have not had the forethought to think menopause is going to be different? But again, nobody then talked about it. I. It was just kind of something buried that women did. And so, no, I didn't anticipate it. I had the foresight that came from working with a lot of older women. I mean, older than me. I say so in graduate school, even I was given the older, the alumni, the graduates, you know, of the retirees because I'd had older siblings and parents. So I adapted really well. I could relate, but I still didn't project for myself. What's this going to be like?

Yeah, yeah. I remember having this bizarre belief, which I guess maybe it's not so bizarre, but I really thought that perimenopause and menopause just wouldn't change if you just stuck to your plan. I mean, that was this belief set that I held like, oh, you just eat, okay, you eat. You watch your eating. You move your body like. No, it's an excuse. I believe that until I started walking through it.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think I thought until two years ago. So I'm 58. You know, I thought, well, I skated by that one. It. This really works. Like, you know, just thinking Miss Egotistical, like, I'm immune to this. And then it hit me. Then it's like, oh, my God, now I know what they're talking about. And I thought I had empathy, but you, you don't necessarily, until you're going through it literally. So, you know, the great thing is now I do. And I know even more because I've been the one woman's journey that each of us can have. But that really tipped me to, okay, there's. There's no one way. There is a formula and we can talk about broadly what that is, but then it's be more like a blueprint, like, if this, then that. And you've got to ask the question again tomorrow because it can change.

Yeah. Okay, so let's bust some of these myths. First of all, let's. What are, what is it that people are believing supposed to happen in menopause?

Well, I think we believe we're going to gain weight. We accept the fact that we're going to gain weight. And, you know, part of that comes from the medical community. It's, you know, so many of the women. When I first said, you know, 10 years ago, 11 years ago, this is the net that I'm declaring. I'm just, I'm going to stop doing all the things. This is the thing. They need me. And it was the echo of, well, my doctor just said, well, welcome to menopause. Like, what do you expect? As if, you know, so done. You know, I mean, just hang it up and there may not be sex in your life again, and it's just done. And, you know, that was the echo over and over again. But there was also the, we do this to ourselves. So I have to say this, this is not other people doing it. We do it to ourselves. And we say, well, I look pretty good for my age. And we tag that for my age onto just so many things. Or, you look really good for your age, you know, and we're backhanded complimenting each other, but we are tying an association to it. And I think mentally, we all have this idea of, does 75 look? What does 85 look? And all we can do is base it on what we've seen in the past. Unless we're meditating the hell out of that. Right.

You know, it's interesting. I had this post on social media at the time of this recording this morning, and I was making Joke, like I always do, about menopause or perimenopause and symptoms that go along with it. And some guy wrote under it, you're only 50 and you're fit and healthy. There's no way you could have menopause. What an interesting. What an interesting belief or statement. It has nothing to do with how fit and healthy you are. That is biology. And it's what happens. It's what happens.

Yeah, but it shows, right, how much work we have to do. Sure. Yes.

So where does this come from? Let's start with, like, sort of the facts, and then what we can actually change. Like, where does this come from, this belief that we're going to gain weight, and we have to accept it?

Well, number one, I mean, we're in a time right now where you and I, I think, have to say just thank goodness. I mean, there's never been a better time to be 50 or 60 than right now, because we literally know we can change the landscape of what the next 10 and 20 and 30 and 40 years looks like for us. We've got control. What we don't have is a model. We are it. We're the model. So I think the myth comes from observing what everybody else did in the past, and yet nobody is realizing that. Just like we're not going to put our cell phones down, we're not going to get off our computers at some point, we're not going to necessarily stop caring about what we eat or exercising either. And therefore, we're going to age very differently than any generation before us. So there's validity to the beliefs that keep getting carried over. But we've got to decide. No, it stops here.

Yes. Okay, so let's talk about what changes. What should we be doing differently?

Well, here's what I'm going to say, and then we're going to have to backtrack. Okay? So not every listener is going to fall into this camp. But never, ever, ever in our lives have we needed intensity the way we do now. So we don't need more of it, though. We don't need more duration and more days a week and more sets and more repetitions, but we do need more intensity. It has to count. So we do need to lift heavier, if we can safely do that to the limitations we've got with conditions or joints. We need to get breathless, like, regularly. I mean, let's face it. Life is an interval, so we literally need to train for it. And we've got to be working on bone density and muscle and brain. I mean, Those are the three, it's the trilogy.

Okay, so let's break down. I want to break down each trilogy so people have action. So when, when I hear intensity, when people hear intensity, they put their own meaning on it. So to me, intensity means not necessarily you're training like an Olympic athlete. It just means what's challenging for you. You're pushing it, you're getting into anaerobic. What does intensity mean to you?

Exactly? So in strength training, it means you're picking up a weight. And as we decide, say you're doing 15 repetitions, you reach temporary muscular fatigue. So you get to 12 and you get to 13. And there should be a question in your mind about am I going to get this last one, Am I going to get to 15? And you actually find successes and not necessarily getting to 15. If you go to 16 and 17 and the intention was we want you to do this and fatigue here, more is not better. Now, if you have a need to pick up a lighter weight, there may be more repetitions in your life, but you still want to, with that assignment, reach muscular fatigue. So when we're talking high intensity interval kinds of training, or cardiovascular training, as we know, that term is getting breathless. And someone inevitably is going to be asking, well, what should my heart rate be? And I'm going to say, I don't care, because breathlessness doesn't lie. You feel like you're having a heart attack, you probably are. You should stop. So never mind your heart rate. And if you're still feeling very comfortable, don't let someone tell you that a person of your age shouldn't be working that hard.

Can you explain from, from why though? Because I'm just listening what a listener might be thinking. But what is, what is the harm in not being intense? Or what does that create by not being intense?

We are kind of compensating for what happens during aging, really. So if we don't do anything else, we are losing the ability to produce energy. ATP. And we've heard this word, it used to be the M word was metabolism or menopause, and now it's also mitochondria. And I just love that that's almost a household word anymore. But that's your energy production. We had it really easily when we were young and as we've aged that also slows down. But we know from science 70 year olds can recreate the same amount of mitochondria as 20 year olds can if they train well. And this is where the exercise get specific. We can't just Exercise and say, well, I walk or I do yoga. We have to get a little bit more specific the older we get because we've got, we're driving on this narrow road now. We don't have this eight lane highway anymore.

Okay, so intensity is number one. What was number two?

Number two is, I mean, making sure first of all that you are absolutely strength training, prioritizing that over anything else.

So let's, I want to get really basic here because I think some people hear strength training and they think they're going to become a bodybuilder. And that's we as you and I know, that is not the case. Bodybuilders work to be bodybuilders. They work very hard to be bodybuilders.

There's a.

Why do women have this fear of strength training and what defines strength training to you?

Well, I think part of that fear of strength training. Again, validated, ladies. But think about when you first learned about strength training and how to do it. If I'm correct, I think the majority of us learned three sets of 10.

Three sets of 10 or three sets of 12.

Or honey, either one of those. That's a bulk building protocol. Hello. And where were we? What were we eating? Low fat, high carbs. Because gummy bears, they were fat free, right? I mean we can have the whole box of snack foils because it's fat free. And so we were carb loading and, and doing this strength training. I mean, not a good combination. So it most likely was not the strength training. However, we were also at peak muscle mass, you know, at 25 or if we say, okay, between 20 and 30, we're still, we're going to get much better results. Well, you don't have those hormones anymore and there's a reason why you're experiencing the other things that you got to give credit everywhere, right. We don't have the hormones that it takes to build that kind of muscle. Now we're going to have to really work for it. So you want to take a look at that. But nobody is bulk building with carbs. We're afraid of carbs, let's face it.

Okay, what was number three?

Number three. So we've got strength training, we're prioritizing it, we're getting the intensity. And you want to take a look at just base building, everybody skips it. But the power of walking, having a base of movement every day that you're, you know, I don't care if you're a step counter. I think that really works for some people. I don't like to count anything. I don't like to count carbs or calories, whatever, but I know it works for some and if it works for you, fantastic. But the point is move. I mean, you're sitting down. How, how many, how many minutes, how much time have you spent sitting today? I think you've really got to look at that and say the more I move, the better off I am going to be. If we look at studies from the Mayo Clinic, the association between movement all day movement and obesity is much stronger than that of exercise and obesity. So even those people who went to the gym 30 minutes or 60 minutes, but if they sat the rest of the day, obesity was still very common. And the opposite is also true. People who move all day but don't necessarily go to the gym and tend to be leaner and fitter naturally.

That's such, such helpful advice here. I love all these. I want to touch a little bit on nutrition, just a little bit. Like how, what do you do as this knowledgeable trainer? Like, what is your thoughts on nutrition and has it changed over the years for you?

Oh, gosh, absolutely. So, I mean, I was having the carbs and the low fat, right. So it was. Fat was evil and now fat makes me full and satisfied and fat gives flavor and that's how I think of it. I don't necessarily try to increase my fat. I'm not a keto fan, I'm not anti keto. I think it has an appropriate time and timing and I also think we're each unique. So we're experiments of one and we're going to have to test. But protein is like God and that's the end of the story.

So, yeah, you know, that is a recurring theme and I hope those of you listening are really hearing this. We talk a lot about protein. We talk about a lot about how it's necessary building block for muscle. I think it's important at any age. But there is something specific about being in perimenopause and menopausal age where it gets absolutely critical. That is the years that our bodies start really physically changing and our, we start losing muscle every decade. And protein is the building block that's going to keep it on and help us grow it. So I don't know about you, Deborah. I eat almost my body weight a day in protein.

Yeah, literally. Me too.

Yeah. So I eat that many grams is what you want to be doing. And I would say you pick your ideal body weight and you really, that's the amount of protein you've got to get in. I would say most women are getting way too little and they're not making it the priority.

Yeah, I would totally agree with that. And I, I, you know, shout out and much respect to those girlfriends out there who are doing plant based diets but I also think there's a big difference in the quality of the level of essential amino acids. The building block of protein.

Yes.

Compared to animal. And if we're looking at trying to reduce calories, we get much more protein density and fewer calories from animal protein than we do in plant. And that's.

You have to eat a lot of vegetables and a lot of combining to make that work. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the power of plants in addition to animal protein. Not in exactly my personal opinion. And honestly there's pretty much everyone you look at that is lean walking through menopause. They are not a vegan. I'm not saying it can't be done. It is very rare though for somebody to look that way. I think I get more people saying that they are a vegan. Can you help me? I'm having this problem then the opposite. So, so just something to look at. I appreciate it for religious reasons and health and ethics and all the things. And there's something to be said for the health that comes along with having that muscle mass.

So that's absolutely true. And you, you alluded to the point but specifically the last two years of perimenopause, which you often don't know you're there until you were but that in the first two years of postmenopause, I mean we have this incredible drop or acceleration if you will, of muscle loss. We have a drop in estrogen that relates to that, the drop in muscle and we've always known drop in bone density. But I think it's time we realize that the reason you gain that ten pounds and that is almost universal. Sure. Like ten pound fluctuation can happen really easily. And then women will say but I didn't change anything. And and then I'll say exactly right. We need to change.

Exactly, exactly. Say that louder. That is true. What are your thoughts on. I mean I'm going to cross over here but I. What I personally am a huge fan of hormone replacement therap. Are you a fan of it or not a fan of it?

Oh yeah, I had to be a fan of it. I mean I, so I, I don't take my advice closely myself so I thought well I'm going to get away with this. I did an ironman again in 2019. But that was the year that I actually hit menopause and was exposed to mold. And so a lot of big stressors all at once. And I gained about 12 to 14 pounds training for the Ironman. Nobody, nobody tries to do that. And I couldn't take it off myself. So I was like, uncle.

Okay, so I want everyone to hear this because I went through the same exact thing. I went through that same exact thing. And I'm a fat loss expert as you fitness all the things and all of a sudden it's like, what is happening here? And to me, I'm a huge fan of replenishing hormones, especially if you test for them. So I, and I. It's interesting to me when people think that's cheating or it's not cheating, we're just giving our body back what it's lacking. And the amount that that can correct for us is ginormous. I'm a huge fan of hormone replacement therapy.

Ditto. And I also think that not just like looking at it at cheating, but I think there is the, you know, sometimes women are still under the belief that lingers that this is not healthy. It won't be good for them from.

2002, which is debaucher.

It's worth, it's worth a second look. Just. Ladies, I would encourage you to be open minded that you may not have all the facts that you believe because the benefit to your muscle and to your bone and to your brain, your.

Skin, everything aging, you know, dementia, bone loss, all the things.

Yeah.

Heart, health, all of it. You know, it's interesting. I kind of put it in the same camp as when we all had kids years ago. And it was like you were heroic if you had natural childbirth. And I'm like, but why would I do that? Give me the drugs. You know, and this is a whole different thing. But I literally look at menopause the same way. Like, well, that's great for you, but why are you trying to be heroic and suffer with all the hot flashes when we can just do this? So. So I'm not changing my mind. Oh yeah.

I was, I think I was at the hospital 15 minutes and I was like, what do you got? Yeah, what else do you guys.

But it's the same conversation to me. I'm like, that's great for you, but I'm not going to suffer. Exactly. Well, this was super helpful today. Where can people find you? Where can they learn more? How can they. Where. Where are you most active on social.

All the things we are definitely our Facebook group at Instagram @ flipping5.0 TV, flipping50 TV and a really active YouTube group as well. And then flipping50 all spelled out dot com. That's the website.

Amazing for having me. Thanks so much, Deborah.