Preventing Fractures and Osteoporosis as We Age with Kevin Ellis

For this conversation on midlife conversations, I've got the one and only Kevin Ellis, the Bone coach. Now, ladies, if you're listening, get your mind out of the gutter. It's not that kind of. Kind of title. Even though he asked me when we started, he said, should I change my shirt? If you're watching on video, it does say bone coach. We are talking about pain and back pain specifically, and what needs to get addressed here, because this is a big thing in midlife, especially for women. So thank you, Kevin, for being here today.

Natalie, I'm looking forward to this. This is going to be fun. And yes, it is the bone coach, but not that kind of bone coach.

Let's start out with why did you name yourself the bone coach? Where did that come from, Kevin?

Yeah, well, I mean, this is. This is a big part of my story, too, which was, you know, I was told I had osteoporosis in my early 30s, of all things, Right? And, like, you would not think of a young male who was formerly in the Marines, you know, as somebody that would be able to develop osteoporosis, but it happened. And the way that it happened was I had a lot of different health issues after I came out of the Marine Corps. I had high stress, poor sleep. I had. I was drinking excessively. I had smoked cigarettes when I was younger. Just. And then I had chronic digestive issues, too, and those digestive issues ended up being celiac disease.

I have celiac. I don't know if you knew that.

Yeah. And I was so malabsorption of nutrients for many, many years. That was just. Your body still needs these nutrients to execute its daily functions, and it was going to my bones to get those nutrients, and that ended up leading to bone loss.

Okay, so this is interesting because a lot of people listening, they're just now in. Because they are in the 40s, 50s, or 60s or beyond, they're just now getting this osteoporosis diagnosis, and they're freaking out. But if you hear what he just said, he was diagnosed with this in his 30s. And we have good news. Spoiler alert. He's turned this around. So. So what. When this was happening to you, what. What was your initial thought? What did you do to treat this?

Well, the. The first thing was shock. I mean, I had a young daughter. I had a son on the way. I was scared. You know, I. I didn't really know what it was. I actually had to Google it. When I Googled it, it just said, dependence on medication fractures was my future. And I was like, wow, that is not going to be the path that I take. So I started doing a lot of reading and research and consulting with people and spent a lot of money and I'm, I'm very type A. So I, when I go at things, I go hard at things and I started figuring things out and I made a plan and I stuck to the plan. I just continue to make improvements in my health and my bones. And then I realized along the way this is how bone coach actually came to be, was that it's not the average 30 year old male, it's the woman, 40, 50, 60 plus, that gets told they have osteopenia or osteoporosis and they're presented with drugs and fractures as an option. And I realized like that there's so much more that can be done. And that's kind of how I got into this field and becoming a coach and building out a credentialed team. And now we just help people all over the world with osteopenia and osteoporosis.

So I want to go back, I'm going to ask some basic questions because I know some of this is new for me, it's new for people listening. What's the difference? To start with osteoporosis and osteopenia, Is that what she said?

Yeah, there's a difference of that. So if you, if somebody tells you of osteoporosis, that that literally means porous bone, and that's a condition that's characterized by either not enough bone formation, excessive loss, or a combination of the two of those things. And in osteoporosis, both your bone density and your bone quality are reduced and that's going to increase your risk of fracture. When the way you find that out is through a bone density scan. It's a scan you lay down on a machine, it does a scan, it tells you your bone mineral density, the actual mineral content of your bone. It's a painless test. And that, that scan generates a score. The score is called a T score or, or a Z score. But that score is basically what determines whether you're told you have osteopenia or osteoporosis.

So, so that bone density scan, if this, if that's the only way they can tell, it's interesting because they don't even recommend that until you're over 60.

Yeah, and, and I always tell people you should, you should be getting a baseline of, of your, like when you get regular lab testing too, you want to get a baseline to know where you're at so you can monitor future changes. You want to do the same thing with your bone density also, because a lot of times you're right. People don't find this out until they're 60, 65, 70 years old. They go, they get this test and they're like, oh my gosh, I have osteoporosis. And I'll just make a note about bone density scans is they're an important measurement to have, but they're not the whole picture. When you get a bone density scan, it tells you the mineral content of your bone. What it doesn't tell you oftentimes is the bone quality, which is the structural integrity, the micro architecture, how that bone is organized. Those two things combine to create bone strength. So oftentimes you only have part of the picture. There is a test, it's an add on software to the bone density scan, the DEXA scan called TBS Trabecular Bone Score. And you can actually ask if the facility that is doing the bone density scan has this software. And what that does is it will give you, that picture, will help you understand your bone quality. So that way you can get your bone density and your bone quality at the same time and you get a better picture of bone strength. And there's another technology called rems, it's radio frequency echographic multispectometry technology. You're probably not going to say that, you know, a lot of times fast. But that also can give you a measure of your bone density, your bone quality, and help you understand a little bit more of that full picture.

So Kevin, I would love, just because statistics are so fascinating to me. Like I recently went down this whole path with gut health and parasites and I went deep on it and I had no idea that 25 to 50% of people walk around parasites, for example. Like I had no idea. Or like these crazy statistics on blood sugar or like what, what is realistically like what is happening with osteoporosis? How many people really do need to worry about this? And is this, is it more relevant with women, Is it more with men? Like tell. Talk to us a little bit about that because this is a really new conversation for some people.

Yeah, well, you've got approximately 10 million Americans that have osteoporosis. Another 44 million have low bone density.

Wow.

One in two women, up to one in four men will break a bone in their lifetime due to osteoporosis. For women, the incidence of low bone density is greater than that of heart attack, stroke and breast Cancer combined. If we're talking about fractures, which is, that's, that's really the biggest concern here, right? When you have poor quality bone or, and really low bone density, fractures are the biggest concern. And you know, for fractures, we have one and a half million fractures every single year. That increases healthcare costs that are coming out of your pocket. And there's, there's, especially as you get older, that's the biggest concern, right? It's preventing fractures. And I, I will tell you, I work with people that have anywhere from no fractures to five to ten or more fractures. And the people that have had that many fractures later on in life, they will always say, I wish I would have known sooner. I wish I would have done something sooner.

For sure.

Yeah.

So do people, other than having these tests, like, what are typical symptoms? Like, what would somebody, how, what tell somebody that they have a problem if they don't have this test yet?

Well, osteoporosis, it's a silent condition. Unless you have a fracture, which is, that would. So if we're talking about back pain too, and you've got these vertebral bodies running up, up your spine. If you have a compression fracture, that can lead to pain in your spine or in your, in your back. But otherwise, unless you have a fracture, it's really a painless, It's a silent condition. So oftentimes you don't know what's happening until you go and get this bone density scan. And then you're like, wow, this is. These are my scores. This is where I'm at. There is a test to understand if you're still actively losing bone right now, present day. And this is a blood test. There are different markers you can look at, and these are called bone turnover markers. And they look at the activity level of cells that are building up and breaking down your bones. And the most sensitive marker for bone resorption, also called bone breakdown, is, is the serum CTX test. That is a CET low peptide test. So it's a blood test, and it looks at the activity level of cells that are breaking down bone. And if that activity level is elevated or even really high, that can be an indicator of a root cause issue that needs to be addressed. And an active bone loss is still taking place.

So it seems like a lot of people come to you because of back pain. Is that correct that they go, or is it in general?

Some people will have back pain, but usually they come to us because they got a bone density scan and found out they had osteopenia or Osteoporosis, or maybe they did have a fracture, and then they're like, okay, that is the impetus. That's the impetus for. I need to figure this out. I need to do something now.

I want to talk about back pain for one minute here, because this is a very relevant topic for people, and I think it's confusing for people to know where back pain's coming from. We always hear about bulging disc or degeneration. Where does bone loss or bone problems fall into the back pain epidemic? Because there's a lot of reasons we can have back pain. It also could just be your posture. It could be that you're sitting all day. But where do you on that spectrum think that it has to do with this?

Well, I see a lot of people that come to us that a. They've had fractures. Number one. They've had fractures. Right. So that can be something that contributes to pain. And also, you have. There a lot of people have scoliosis, spondylolisthesis, osteoarthritis, stenosis. Those are a lot of actual conditions we see also for people that have osteoporosis, too, we actually teach modifications for people to make when they have those conditions also. But those are other things that could be contributing to that back pain, too.

Got it. Okay. What happens if you leave bone density issues untreated? Like, if you don't get a scan and you don't know and you're not aware, like, what happens? Is it, like the stereotypical. You're. You get the arch spine? Like, what is that? What causes that? And is that just from ignoring it for years and years and years?

Yeah. Most people think. Most people think of their. Their mothers or their grandmothers or somebody else that they can picture in their life that they're like, I don't want to be like, that person who was hunched over with the dowager stump, you know, where their ribs are sitting on top of their pelvic bones. Right. That's. That is a future that can happen. And I don't want to take this too grim. I want to. I want to focus on some positive things also. But I will say, like, there is a reality for those things if you just let it sit and you don't address those things. But there are proactive things that you can do to actually get on the path to improvement and building your bone strength.

Okay, so let's talk about some of those things. I would love to talk about some preventative. And like, first of all, is it possible to completely prevent. That's one and Two, can you start to reverse if you've already been diagnosed?

Great questions. So the first one, can you prevent. Absolutely. Prevention is the best place to be, ideally. Right. It's a lot easier to slow and stop and prevent more bone loss than it is to build bone back once you lose it. Both are possible. You can build bone strength at any age. It just becomes more challenging the older you become and the more bone you've lost. There are fewer cells involved in that process, and that process becomes less efficient. So prevention is always greater than reaction. There's actually. Who was it? Was it Benjamin Franklin, maybe? I think this. Who said that it was that. That quote, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. For sure that before. Yeah. And he was speaking about fire safety when he said that. But that applies so much to the health space, I think, too.

It absolutely does.

So prevention is great to focus on. And then let's say you do develop osteopenia or osteoporosis. Can you actually rebuild bone again? Yes, you absolutely can. But a lot of times people think they can make these massive jumps and improvements in bone density in very short periods of time. That's not realistic. That's not what we're looking for. What we're looking for is how can we focus on all of the leading indicator things, the diet, the digestion, the absorption, the exercise, the stress reduction, the sleep improvement, the hormone optimization. How can you focus on all those leading indicator things? All those things will eventually feed up into improvement, and that's going to lead to better, healthier, stronger bones.

It's so weird because if you think about when you look at, you know, a movie, or you go and read history books or whatever, obviously bones last forever. So someone dies hundreds, hundreds of years from now, you can still find their bones. So to me, it's like, it's a hard thing to wrap our minds around that your bones kind of disintegrate or go away while you're alive when they seem to last forever and ever. And is that because your body is kind of, what you said earlier, feeding off of your bones for nutrients?

Well, your body's going to do what it needs to do to survive, right? Muscle contractions, heart, your. Your heart, all those things. They use calcium, too, right? You. You need calcium. Calcium is a primary mineral constituent of your bones. Magnesium is one of the minerals that's in your bones, right? And you need these nutrients to execute all these daily functions. If you, if you're not getting those nutrients through your diet, and even if people are eating Healthy, they might not be taking in these nutrients. And also you might not actually be absorbing those nutrients. So if you have overt digestive issues, if you're like, oh, leaky gut. Exactly. I always have stomach issues or bloating or IBS or, you know, chronic diarrhea or constipation. You know, any of those things, those can be indicators. But also when you go get functional tests, when you go get these functional lab tests and you find out if you do have leaky gut, or maybe you have parasites, or maybe you have dysbiosis or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, all of those things could be preventing you from absorbing these nutrients too. And then what you and I understand intimately is celiac disease, Right. That is something that. It's an autoimmune condition where you ingest gluten or proteins that mimic gluten, that damages the villi, those nutrient absorption centers in your small intestine. I call them your roots. And it damages the roots in your soil, and it prevents you from absorbing the nutrients that you need. So it's.

So it's interesting, your body, it's like your body will stay alive. It may not function well, but it will pull from wherever it needs to stay alive.

Absolutely.

That's why. So that's wild because, you know, I think back to my. To commercials like about. Remember with tums, used to market. Take tums to prevent bone loss. But it's just funny how you. They'll take. It's like one concept twisted. So. So let's give you calcium from an antacid, which, by the way, is not helping your gut any by doing that. So we're creat another problem there. So. Wow. Okay, so we have. We. If you are not on top of this and you are losing your body will start pulling from your bones, especially if you. If you need calcium or magnesium. So what are some of the things that you recommend? I want to actually get into like some tactical things like what can people do to prevent or reverse? And are they the same things?

Yeah, I want to absolutely talk about those things in just a sec. But because you brought thumbs up, I have to touch on this, right? Because antacids like these are. These are drugs that are designed to reduce the production of or increase the suppression of your stomach acid. So this would be your proton pump inhibitors, your omeprazole, your Nexium, your Prevacid, or your H2 receptor antagonist drugs like ranitidine, which is also called Zantac. I took these for a number of years to suppress My stomach acid.

I did two before I knew I had celiac.

Yeah, right. But because like most people who take PPIs, I mistakenly thought I had too much stomach acid. And, and when in reality, most people who think they have too much stomach acid actually have too little, it's counterintuitive. And when we think we have too much, we start to take these Tums or these proton pump inhibitors. And what that's doing is suppressing the stomach acid. And you need stomach acid to properly extract nutrients from your food, like amino acids, like calcium, like magnesium, iron, B12, all of these things. You have to have stomach acid to be able to get these nutrients. And amino acids specifically, these are the building blocks of protein. Your bones are 50% protein by volume. They need amino acids. And what's also interesting, you were talking about, you know, bones, they just. 100 years later, they're still there.

Yeah.

Well, when you lose bone, it's not like your body is just going in, selectively plucking out the calcium that it needs. Right? It's actually going in, it's tearing down the structure, the protein structure to access those minerals and those nutrients. And that's one of the things that's happening there. So how can we preserve and strengthen and build and fortify that structure back up? That's where some of these other things that we can talk about now are going to play into this. So one of the first ones is diet, nutrition. Right, that's, that's probably one of the most obvious ones that people think about. And obviously, and I'm sure you, you beat this, you know, or cover this all the time, right. On your podcast is anti inflammatory diet. Making sure you're getting enough protein. Try to aim for at least 30 grams per meal. You could probably even have a little bit more protein in that first meal, you know, first meal of the day, which is great because you want to stimulate muscle, protein synthesis. Muscle and bone have a tight connection we'll talk about in just a second. So getting enough protein is important. You can incorporate. Berries are great also. I love incorporating berries. They're lower sugar fruits and they've got, they're rich in antioxidants. So your blueberries, your raspberries, I actually really like. There are, if you get wild blueberries too, they actually have significantly higher antioxidant levels than regular store bought blueberries. And then huckleberries also have significantly more antioxidants than that. So those are some great additions that you can incorporate. And then I love sardines and mackerel and Some of those other canned.

Okay, you're like the 10th person who's mentioned sardines. I need to know. I'm gonna. This is gonna go off topic for a minute, but how the heck do you eat those things? Cause those are gross. Like, I think they're like little mini fish. How do you eat them?

Okay, so for me, because I was in the Marine Corps, Getting off topic.

Here, but I need to understand this.

Because I was in the Marine Corps, and also when I was diagnosed with celiac, food at that point in my life became sustenance. It wasn't something that I sought as this point of enjoyment. It was just like, how do I just get these nutrients?

That's a man thing to say, Kevin. I don't know any female that will say that, but. Okay, got it.

I know, I know. Probably not, but that was my thinking. And that's why if I need to eat a can of sardines and I'm out, I can just eat them straight out of the can. There's nothing else on them. But I know most people aren't like that. So one of the ways that you can do this is if you've got a can of sardines. And by the way, you want to get the sardines or the mackerel that have the bones in them. And these are not hard, pokey bones that hurt your mouth. They're actually kind of soft bones, the way they've been cooked, and they contain all the minerals and nutrients that your own bones need. They've got a good source of protein, good source of omega 3 fatty acids. And if you drizzle them with Primal Kitchen dressing, no affiliation, just like their.

I love their dressings.

Love their stuff.

I use their avocado mayonnaise, too.

Yeah, fantastic. So avocado oil, great dressing that you can just drizzle on top of there and then eat them. And it's. It's going to be so much better and so much easier to do that.

All right, I'm gonna. They look like little mini fish to me. I don't know how to. I don't. Can't do it. But I. They come on a Caesar salad and you remove them. So. Yeah, but you're like. Since so many people have said it ain't as.

Try them out. Try them out. And you're gonna tag me.

All right, I will. I'll do it. I'll do it. I might have to mush them into, like, a cracker or something, though. I don't know that I can just Eat it with some dressing on it. What about. Because you said that. Would bone broth also help eating, drinking, bone broth.

Bone broth could be great too. It's just when you're. When you've got them in a can, you could dump them in a bowl, you can mix them with other stuff. We actually put together some recipes on our.

What do they taste like? Super salty or what's the.

No, you can get them without salt. You can get them with sea salt, you can get them with olive oil. We put together some recipes for like a sardine pate, which actually, it actually tastes pretty good. We've got avocado sardine salad cups where you mix it with avocado, some pickles. Those are on our YouTube channel.

I'm gonna try it, Kevin, I will tag you.

And there's one other one. I don't know, I can't remember what the other one is. But we've got it out there.

So I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna try it. Okay, what you mentioned, there's a tight connection between bone and muscle. Help me understand this one.

Yeah, really big, really big connection there. And we're talking about, we've talked about eating the right foods, actually absorbing those nutrients. You can do all the right things there. Even you can reduce your stress, you can improve your sleep. But if you do not provide the stimulus your bones need to become stronger. When you load bone, it's going to adapt to become stronger. It's. You're not going to do that. So if you're not exercising enough, which I would think that all of your listeners are probably doing some form of exercise at this point.

I hope so. Otherwise, what are you doing with your life? Come on, let's do it.

It's great for so many things other than just your muscles and your bones.

I hope so. But you've not go walk while you're listening to this right now. Come on.

Yes, do it, do it, do it. So you need muscle pulling on bone and you need impact. Those are the different stimuli that you need when muscle pulls on bone. You've got a mechanical signal that sends a chemical signal to tell those bones to become stronger. And then impact also helps with that too. Most people are just told, like, especially if they get told they have osteopenia or osteoporosis, they just say, go do some walking or go do some weight bearing exercise. Well, what is weight bearing exercise? Weight bearing exercise is where your body and your bones have to work against gravity to keep you upright. There are Things that you're doing on your feet. And when you're doing those things on your feet, you're placing a good healthy stress on your bones. This would be your walking, you're jogging, you're hiking, you're dancing, you're gardening, you're playing with the kids or the grandkids or whoever, or it's Tai chi, yoga, Pilates, qigong, those kinds of things. Those are all weight bearing exercises. So you want to incorporate these things. But then there's also non weight bearing exercise. This is where your body and your bones are not working against gravity to keep you upright. They're not placing a good healthy stress on the bones. And this is something that you cannot just count as your sole and only form of exercise. This would be cycling, this would be swimming. Swimming is probably one of the biggest ones too, because you, if you're just somebody who gets in the pool and you do some laps and you maybe get some great cardio, but you get out and you're like, wow, I got my workout in for the day or for the week. No you didn't, because you didn't put any healthy stress on your bones. So what's the other kind of exercise you need to incorporate? You need to incorporate muscle strengthening and resistance training exercise. And this is where you start to bring in resistance bands or you use the machines at the gym. If you're not somebody who really is too, too familiar with working out, maybe use some of the machines at the gym.

I will. So what gets frustrating And I'm talking to everybody that's listening right now. So guys and girls, but mostly women. I'm going to say this because this is something we really walk through in perimenopause and menopause. Maybe we worked out 20s, 30s, 40s, right. But 50s, you start getting, I mean, I don't care what research someone pulls out telling me otherwise. It's, it's just not true because we do lose muscle mass and your metabolism slows down and then you start feeling pains like we didn't feel before. So what happens is there's a psychological shift that happens with working out. And I go through it too myself, and I'm like the queen of workouts. And I still go through it where like 10 years ago I would think of a workout I'd like go run and sprint and box jump and heavy weights. And now I think of that and I think of pain. Right. So I, so I, it tends to like take me down some notches. So my question for you is, how much is actually needed to prevent and repair bone. Like, like if you watch, if you go to Instagram and you go, how do I build a butt? They're like, you got to live so heavy. You got. So I guess I want to know from you, like, how heavy, how hard, how intense, or is there like a baseline that we just need to be doing?

Yeah, I would say if you are able to. The first thing I would say is, like, if you're already, if you've already got osteoporosis or you're at risk of fractures or something like that, then you're probably going to want to. You're going to want to pay a little bit more attention to the way that you're doing things and the way you're moving. I mean, the body mechanic principles are still going to be the same for anybody whether they have osteopenia, osteoporosis or not. But the studies that show the greatest impact in that 5 to 10 repetition range. Right. So you're providing a greater stimulus. You're. And then you're incorporating things like squats and deadlifts and chin ups with. And if you want the impact, those drop, like if you drop down off that bar, you've got a little bit impact there.

So don't panic if you're listening, because even when he says squats, you could do a body weight squat and still get the movement.

Yeah.

It doesn't. He's not saying you have to go do 200 pounds on a squat.

No, no, no, no. And. And this is the most important. You have to start where you are.

Yes.

You know, at your level of physical fitness and activity, everybody's. There's a spectrum of that. And you've got to start on the lower end and make sure first and foremost that as you're doing these things, you've got your body mechanics down. Because as you start to load or increase that load, if you've got compromised body mechanics or you've got pain that you haven't figured out how to work through or work around or address that.

Yep.

It's going to lead to injury as you increase that weight. So, you know, no, no single workout is going to be the thing that reverses osteoporosis or that makes your muscles, you know, 10 times bigger, your body, you know, that much leaner. It's not one single workout. It's over time. That's what happens. Got it. So slowly progress up to these things and just be patient with yourself. You know, you don't have to go all in day One.

Okay, this is good. This is so good. Okay, I've got kind of an unrelated question, but I'm so curious here, because this is another thing like. So this is unrelated to fixing your bones, but it. It's a psychology thing. And I'm just. I'm so curious because I don't even know. How old are you, Kevin? Are you even in midlife? I don't even know how old are you?

Almost 37.

Okay, so he's like, barely in midlife, but you are still. Cause. Right. Kind of. Not really. Midlife starts at 40. Call it. So he's like a junior midlifer. You're almost there. But you've been doing this for a long time. You've been like. Because you were diagnosed early with bone issues, and you keep. You've been, like, sticking with it. How do you stay consistent on this as your passion and as this is your topic? Because, um. An unrelated question, but I've been asking this a lot lately of people is I tend to see in midlife, people, they get bored. They're like, I'm bored. I feel like I need to shift. I need to go to something else. But you have something that, like, really helps people, and this has been repetitive. How do you stay interested and stay consistent with wanting to stick with it?

That's a great question. I think the biggest thing that you have to focus on is what is the reason you're even doing this in the first place? Like, for me, I had a really big personal reason as to why I even started down this path. And I know the pain and the hurt and, you know, the feelings that go with being in that place. And I don't want anybody to be in that place. So that alone is a pretty good driver and motivator for me because I want to help people. I genuinely care about seeing people help, help themselves and improve. The other reason is that I have young kids, and I want to set a good example for them. When I was growing up, I was. My father. He. He passed away when I was two months old. And it is. It was and is the biggest, deepest pain that I've experienced in my entire life. And I know that I am living. I'm getting to do the things that my father didn't get the chance to do.

Wow.

So this is, like, an amazing opportunity for me to show up and live that life for both of us.

So good.

And to be an amazing father and to just set a great example for my kids.

I love that. I love that. So we. No, this is why I wanted to ask that because I also wanted people to hear this from you too, because you. I love when people that sell a solution because you do sell a solution. You have programs, you have, you have things to help people. I always look for, like, what's the story behind it? Because I'm not a fan of people that just market things. Like, they just, they heard I can make money doing this. So this is what I do. I really look for the heart and that somebody walks through something. So thank you for sharing that because it is important because there are people listening right now that are navigating this. They just got a scary diagnosis or they're worried about it. They do have a fracture. This is like all popping up in their head. Or they have the relatives with the hunch over back. And I just want you to know that Kevin is the real deal. He is not. He's walked through this. He's lived it. He cares. This is not just he learned to sell some kind of, you know, bone program. This is really, this is his work. This is his life's work here. Okay, you have a masterclass and I'm going to tell people to go to it. It's. If you go to midlife conversations.com forward/bone coach, what can expect for that class? Why should they take it? What do you want them to know about that?

I mean, I mean, if you want to preserve and strengthen the structure that's going to carry you to an active future, you need to watch this masterclass.

Okay?

I basically took all the knowledge, all the reading, the research, distilled it down into these main kind of points and discoveries that I've walked through. And I just take your hand and I walk you through it step by step. So this is something. It's. You only get one skeleton, right? You have to preserve it, you have to strengthen it now. And that's what this masterclass is going to talk about. And it's going to make sure that you're not missing important pieces, that you don't have a blind spot that shows up 10 or 20 years down the road. And then you're like, oh my gosh, I've got grandkids now. I want to be there for them. I want to pick them up and hold them and I can't or I'm worried that I'm going to have issues. So this is going to give you a three step actionable plan that's going to walk you through everything you need to do. And we'll give you a recipe guide.

Oh, that's even better. Does it have the sardine stuff in there?

I don't know. I'll have to check. But I might just add it in.

I don't advise adding that in. I don't think it's going to get more. You put chocolate in there maybe, but that's all. I don't know how well the marketing of a sardine recipe book would do, but you never know.

We probably wouldn't lead with that on the COVID You never know.

But chocolate. Yes. Yes. Okay, so midlife conversations.com forward slash bone coach. And I'm assuming they can. There's lots of different times they can take this class or is there. How does that work?

Yeah, you could take it anytime. I would say, just so you don't forget, number one, I would just say if you know somebody that has osteoporosis too, or, you know, a mother or a sister or friend or somebody share this episode with them. Don't forget to do that because them learning this information now could prevent a lot of things for them in the future and really just add on years to their life, which is so important. But the other thing is, like, yeah, I would click the link, get the master class.

Yeah, I'll put it all in the show notes, too. And I'm gonna. I wanna watch it too, because I'm super curious. I want to get. I. I just asked because after meeting you, I did ask my doctor, just my regular checkup. I said, can I get a bone density test? And she's like, oh, you're not 60 yet. And I don't know why I took that as an answer. Like, so now I'm gonna go back and say, no. Kevin said I needed to do it, so I'm gonna do it. I'll probably share when I do it because I share everything. So I'll let you guys know what I find out. Thank you so much, Kevin, for what you do and for being here. I'm sure I'm gonna have to have you back on at a future time because you just have such good information. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Natalie.