Starting and Expanding an Online Business with Chalene Johnson

Today, I've got my business bestie, as I love to call her on. Chalene Johnson, I am so happy to have you here. I can't wait to, like, I get to really pick your brain here. I really get to do it.

I'm excited. I'm happy to be your friend. I'm happy to be a business bestie and just a regular bestie. I love it.

And here's the thing, for those of you listening, if you don't know Chalene yet, if you're living under a log, you've got to go follow her and find her on Instagram and all the places her podcast and everywhere, because she literally is your new best friend from afar. You know, they say you can find mentors anywhere. She's the one that you need to have because listening to her on our podcast, watching her on her reels, you'll. It's one of those. You're one of those platforms everywhere that is quite addictive in a good way, because you feel like you're missing out if you don't hear or follow what's going on.

That's such a compliment. Thanks.

So, okay. Charlene, I'm so glad to have you here because you were really, truly my first business mentor. When I first met you, I had left corporate, and I didn't know what I was doing in the online space. I really didn't. I sort of accidentally fell into this online business, and you were the first one that really was able to give me guidance that I understood that didn't feel over my head.

Well, that's a compliment. You know, you said you really didn't know what you were doing, which is interesting because you were doing. You were doing, though. And that's kind of the first step for people, is to just start doing before you actually have it figured out. And you, you, when you do that, you start creating success, which you. You were very successful when I met you, so that's a real compliment. You would say that.

I'd say it was success, but it was actually sloppy success because it was. It was sort of that accidental success. And I. I always knew I should have a mentor, I should learn, I should have something to teach me how to do this, but I didn't. I honestly didn't know who to ask. I always felt like I wasn't a good student. That's how I felt, that I wasn't a good student, like the traditional way. I didn't have a business degree. You know, I had a college degree. It wasn't business. So you were the first one, that when I would talk to you, you would put it in my language.

Well, that's interesting. You said you weren't a great student. I think I tend to track people who weren't great students because I wasn't a great student. And I know what I need even to this day to be able to understand a concept. There's so many times when there's someone who has great knowledge and they're an incredible expert, but I want to say to them, wait, slow down. I back that up. I don't understand. And I need to, like, draw a mental picture. I need to explain to me a certain way because of the way my brain works. And I think there are certain people out there, like yourself, where we need to hear it a certain way from a certain person in order for it to, like, make sense.

Hmm.

And I think there's that person out there for all of us.

There definitely is. But you, honestly, you really are that for so many people. It's really. It's really wild when I. When people don't know about you and they're trying to start in the online space. So I want to. I want to use this episode today. I've got a lot of questions that I know people typically ask me. And I thought, while I've got you, I'm going to shoot them out to you because the way you explain things and teach things is next level. And I want to. And I do want to share this one thing. My very first hire ever. When I met Chalene, I had my accidental business that I. As I called it, and now my now husband was in the picture. So we were figuring things out, but I didn't have anyone working for us, not even an assistant. And I met Chalene through Instagram. That's how we met. She was building her Instagram, I was building mine. We. We became friends that way. And I remember sitting in your house and you said, you, first assignment is to hire an assistant. And I looked at my husband and I'm thinking, well, what would I hire an assistant for? Well, like, I just was so foreign.

To me, like, what would I.

And maybe when I get here, I will. And you said, no, you need to do that now to get there. And I remember you breaking that down to me. You started asking me about my personal expenses, and you said, well, like, how much time do you spend at the grocery store and how much do you spend on groceries and how much time are you cooking food? And I answered those questions, and you said, what do you think your time is Worth. And you really had me look at what am I wanting to make this year and how many hours would I need to work to get there. And you had me connect the dots between how, what my time is worth, grocery shopping or cooking my food. And you said, do you think you could find assistant an assistant that you would pay less than that hourly amount? And I said, of course. And you said, well, then that's absurd that you wouldn't do that.

Right.

You changed my whole way of thinking about business and hiring in that moment.

That's awesome. I remember that conversation. Like, I can even picture where we were sitting. And the reason why I started with, like, groceries and food and cooking is because at that point, I felt like you were pretty certain everything in your business needed to be you. And so we kind of went through, like, okay, but everyone does a lot. Every day. We do things per. We do things professionally, we do things around our home, we do things for our family, for our friends. You know, there's just so much to be done. Right? Like, even today, I was thinking, God, I haven't updated my iOS on my computer. Like, that's something that's going to take me, you know, probably 30 minutes to figure out and do. There's so much we have to do every day. So for most people, it's taking a look at that huge list and just kind of saying, okay, what could I let go of? Because it doesn't have to be business and it doesn't have to be personal. It doesn't have to be anything. It's different for each person. And you are willing to. You're like, yeah, I don't need to go grocery shopping. Yeah, I don't need to do my food prep. I could pay someone a couple hours a week to do that. And so you just kind of start with the thing you're most comfortable letting go of.

That was the first thing you taught me. And then I'm going to share the second thing before I get in all the questions. The second thing you taught me is, I know that authentic is. Is the buzzword now online. Like, everyone says, you have to be authentic online.

Yeah.

But you were the first one to point out to me, hey, you've got to share who you really are besides what people see on social media, because people will like you and connect you more if they saw the messy side of you. And I thought, messy side. And this is back when Instagram was just totally picture perfect, right? Everything's picture. And you said, yeah, like. Like, let them see a little of the Chaos. A little of the messy, a little of the not so perfect. And you're the first one that taught me that. And it just changed everything for me. Opening up that side of me.

Yeah. And I think you know what's hard for people, and that kind of is more accepted today. But I also. I'm sure you would agree too, there's some people that they're almost fabricating the messy now.

Yes.

It's like they're trying to be imperfect. You're like, I'm just. You're trying to be. You're so trying to be imperfect that it just feels really inauthentic. Whereas what you started doing was just like, this is who I am and this is how I show up. And yes. It wasn't like an act. Right.

Like when they. Right now, vulnerable. Share. Like, share coming.

Yeah. Or where it feels super staged. You know, you're like, that didn't happen that way. Like, this is an acting job. And yeah, first of all, we just relate more. And I think people, not everybody, but most of us, have a pretty strong BS meter. So we can tell when you and I have talked about this, there are certain people, it's like we don't get it. Like, people fall for their perfection. But I think the average person who has emotional intelligence and a pretty strong BS meter, we can see through it. And it's just like, well, you made.

My life easier telling me that. Because once I understood it, it really does make your posting easier. Because I thought, it don't have to be perfect. I can just share. I can make things when they come to me. Or it just. It made my life easier.

People didn't know how funny you were or like, that you married a comedian.

I did marry a comedian who doesn't like to be on social. It's. It's like pulling teet to get them on there. But when I do, those are my videos that go viral. The ones with Brooks in it, of course.

And they. They never cease to tell us. My husband's constantly like, are you using me for clickbait? I'm like, I am.

Dogs, husbands and babies. We don't have babies anymore. So, you know, husbands have to come in. Okay, so this, especially right now as a recording, this. We just came off the whole Covid thing for the last two years. People losing jobs, being really frustrated with what happened the last years. I feel like now better than ever, more important than ever. It's really important to look one. What are you passionate about? And how can you monetize in ways that you can control.

Really?

How can you do that? And I will tell you that the number one thing that comes to me especially because I tend to attract a lot of women in their 40s and 50s in this midlife age where they think, gosh, I don't know who I am anymore and I know that there's something else for me, and they see someone like you or me and they think, well, they have it figured out. They had a business skill. And I believe, and I know you do, too, that really anybody that has an interest and a desire can create something online. I wanted to ask you about that.

Things have changed so much, Natalie, from. You know, even when we first started, it's so different. It's so much easier. It's so much faster. You, I mean, when you and I first started, you had to spend tens of thousands of dollars to develop a website. You better have a really smoking hot idea that you have. You vetted it. It's proven before you invested all this money and time, you needed a business plan. It required a significant startup cost. But today, and I'm not just saying this, you can start making money tomorrow online. And I think if people stop thinking in terms of entrepreneurship as like, I am going to be a business owner and a leader and I'm going to have all these employees and I'm going to be. A thought like that feels so intimidating and overwhelming to someone who's like, I don't even have time to shower. And if we stop thinking about it in those terms and instead just said to ourselves, I'm just going to give myself permission to see if I can make a few bucks on the side online that doesn't cramp my style or take a ton of time and just have fun with it and not put the pressure on ourselves to develop a brand or to have launched this big thing that I'm going to be doing for the next 10 years and I'm going to be known for like, we make it too big. And I know that's the, you know what, the messaging you hear on Instagram is like, dream big. No, I say dream smaller. Like, just start smaller, dream smaller. Otherwise it's so overwhelming that people just won't do it. And I think it is so confidence building to make $7 online, whether that's, you know, selling that pair of shoes that you never wore on Poshmark, or figuring out if there's something of a service you can offer, or even doing a consultation or a zoom, or offering free tips. Like, there's so many things that you already know how to do that. Don't have to be your brand. They don't have to be the things you're doing 10 years from now. But there's. There's simple ways to go. Like, hey, I wonder if a stranger would find value in this and pay me for it. And so I always tell people to don't overthink it. Don't feel like you have to be a business owner. But do you own a phone? And do you know how to download an app? Because if the answer is yes, you can start making money tomorrow on Facebook Marketplace. You know, it's pretty exciting.

So when you say that I get excited because I'm. And that's my mind is like that, or I get excited and I can. I'm like, oh, I can have another idea, ideas. But for. There's people listening right now that they're really stuck on. But what, but what, what would you tell them.

To make a list? I mean, you gotta do this on paper. Because if you're driving in your car listening to us, if you're doing something else and listening to us and you're letting those ideas bounce around in your head, they don't go to the next step until you take them out of your head and put them on paper. You have no ability to evaluate which one of these is a viable first thing. And you just have to put some ideas down on paper. Like, well, I have been making these, I don't know, hair bows for brides. I've made a couple of them and people keep asking me about them. That could be something on Etsy. I do have a ton of stuff that I could just sell in my house on Facebook Marketplace, just to see if I'm interested in maybe flipping items. That's an idea. Another idea is I did figure out how to get both of my kids D1 scholarships. I could see if people were interested in paying me for a consultation on how I did that. You just write all these things down and then you ask yourself, which one of these fits with my current lifestyle, the amount of time I have right now, what I already know how to do, and which one of these could I do the quickest right away? Because you need that momentum. It is that momentum that starts the ball rolling. It is the confidence that you need to say, well, this is giving me some more courage to do something that is bigger, something that's different, something that is maybe more substantial, something that feels more like a purpose and a passion versus making a quick buck. But just start with a quick buck.

I love this because I really think that so many marketers and teachers out there, they're making this too complicated for people. And that's why people think they have to have this grand, mega, huge, original idea, and they get stuck in that.

Yeah, they do. And it really kills your confidence. I mean, you and I know so many people who. They finally bite the bullet and they're like, okay, yeah, that's it. I'm going to start my own thing. And then they invest all this time and money into launching a podcast or building a course. And they've done the work, but they've done the work in the wrong order. And they've done something like almost too big, too soon. And, you know, because I've worked with entrepreneurs for 30 years, I used to teach people to do it that way. And I couldn't figure out, like, why are people failing? Why are people creating this amazing thing, but there's no one to sell it to? And I eventually realized, oh, they haven't done the foundational pieces. They have done things in the wrong order. I have to show people and kind of walk people backwards and say, there's an order to this, and it doesn't matter how fast you're running, if you're running in the wrong direction, if you're running towards third base and you miss first and second. So it's really. For me, with the experience I've had seeing so many perfectly suited people to be successful, give up, I realized, okay, I've got to walk this backwards. I got to show people how to start small. Because everything is about, if you lose confidence, you're done.

Yeah.

So what we have to teach people, like, how can I just do something? It's like, oh, well, that was cool. There was no risk, and it gave me a little bit of confidence to do something more and more and more as opposed to creating this huge thing that's a real crapshoot. So why do you think people go.

Automatically to, I need the big website, I need the brand logo, I need the building, I need the need the need that.

Need the.

All that. So why is that? Is it a procrastination thing? Is it a they don't think their skill's good enough? Is it just the marketing that's out there? What is it that. Because that is so common.

Well, I don't know what your opinion is. I think personally, it's because we've been taught all of our lives that success leaves clues. So we look at that person who, like, I want to be like Natalie one day. Let's see. Well, Natalie has a Fat Loss Academy. Natalie has a podcast, and she has a huge social media following. So I'm going to work on doing all three of those things at once. But what they didn't see was that you started with small. You started with taking pictures of your food on your phone and putting them in a PDF and selling that. They don't. People, when they look at successful people, they don't go like, okay, so where did they start? They look at, okay, where are they today? Well, that's what I need to do. And, you know, we all do that. I've done that too. And you just finally, eventually you realize, like, there is a journey and you can't skip steps. And I think so many business gurus, et cetera, because it is easier to make money online today, without a doubt. I think we give people the wrong message that it's going to be, you're going to become an overnight millionaire, which isn't true, but you have to start small right now if you're ever going to get there.

Yeah, this is. I mean, this is definitely a change of thinking for people because I do hear these conversations every day where people are just looking for this massive idea and think they have to. All this work. And. And like you said, success does leave clues, but rewind to where they started because nobody just got there overnight like that. I mean, that's very rare. That's very rare.

And so knowing the right steps in the right order today is so important and the way to do that. And this is really important for people who are listening, who are easily distracted. Like, you know, you. You tend to watch a lot of people online. You're inspired and motivated by other people's success. That is a good thing. But it's also a dangerous thing, as you and I both know, like, because if you start taking in all this information from all these different directions, you start splintering your attention and you feel like every single one of these avenues is the right next step, and it's not.

Yeah.

So I would recommend anyone who's easily distracted is to narrow your focus, like, limit your social media intake, limit your. Limit your mentorship. Like, it's like going to three therapists at once. You know, that would. No therapist would ever advise that, because you really need to stay on course with one therapist. And I believe that is true with mentors and people who teach business as well. If you're getting so much input from multiple people and all the input might be great, but it's going to be conflicting and confusing if it's coming in from too many different directions. So I am a big fan of, like, you know, scrape everything off your plate and just focus on one thing at a time.

I want to add and ask your thoughts on this as well. People that are looking in at programs or coaches or for advice, who are they asking? Because I think that comes up a lot too, where, like, if I'm going to ask you a business question or go to you for guidance, I know that you've done it, you've been successful, you've gone through it, where I think there's a lot of coaches online that they were something, and now they're all of a sudden the expert or the coach. I think that's dangerous, too. Yeah, I would. How does one figure out, like, is this person legit? Did they actually do this? Have they been through this? Have they been where I actually am right now?

Yeah, you've got to do your research. That's a really good point. And I have probably some controversial opinions on this. They're just personal perspectives. So when I am looking for business mentors, and there's been mentors who I've chosen, who I later said probably not a good fit for me is, you know, when I first started, I'd be like, oh, they are the most successful at this. So therefore, I'm going to pay for their seminar and learn their strategies. But their strategies and their approach were for someone who didn't have children or wasn't married. And, you know, I mean, some people don't consider that, but I do. It's like, no, I need to learn from someone who actually has the same alignment of priorities as me because I don't want to sacrifice these other things. I don't want to travel every weekend. I don't want to miss out. I don't want to put business ahead of time with my family. And so I had to, like, kind of keep rework. Once I would find a mentor, I would then, like, kind of dig into their personal life and figure out, like, how do they really live? Because they all say family first, Every.

Single one of them, as they've had three divorces.

That's right.

As they're getting a divorce.

Yeah. So I don't really know what they mean by family first, but it's not my definition of family first. God bless. So for me, that's important because, you know, like, when I teach my students, I'm very honest about saying, you're going to go hard and you're going to hustle hard and you're going to. Then you're going to lose interest, and then one of your kids is going to be having a mental breakdown, and you're going to need to put all this shit in the back burner and focus on them, because that's all that matters. So you need a mentor who doesn't shame you for that and encourages you to do that, but then also says, all right, let's go, you know, time to get motivated and back into this again. But this is how for most of us, where, you know, business and family are important, it goes in ebbs and flows. And if you don't understand the seasons of that, then, you know, then you need a mentor who is solely focused on business. And I just. That just never worked for me, you know, and I know it does for some, but it never felt comfortable. I. I would align myself sometimes with a business mentor where I felt guilty about the decisions I was making to spend more time with my family than I was in my business. Now, I made plenty of sacrifices. You know, I'm not going to lie. You have to. I didn't. I didn't do a lot of the social things that my friends were doing. Like, I didn't go to when I was building my business. It's like, okay, if I'm going to be. Spend this much time with my family, then something has to give. And it was my social life. Like, I. I didn't go to baby showers. I didn't go to girlfriend dinners. I didn't, you know, go to the spa on the weekends. I just didn't do those things because I was like, okay, if I'm going to spend this much time with my family, then I have to. Every single extra minute has to be scheduled, and I have to be very focused and diligent about the way I protect my schedule.

Yeah, you're strong with that. And I love what you're saying there because I think that is a dangerous road. If we go find a mentor that doesn't relate to our lives, then it's not going to feel in alignment when we're trying to do things that they're telling us to do or that we're learning from them. It could really feel off with that.

Yeah.

And then how do we navigate a lot of the fake out there? I mean, this. I know that's a maybe an odd question, but there's just so much marketing junk. How do we know if someone is legit or not?

I think you have to tune out what everyone else is saying about a particular person or Mentor, you know what I mean? And you have to tune in, you have to pay attention to your own radar. We're good at it. But I did a podcast recently about this, like, group think thing where it's like, when everyone else is like, hype on someone, you're like, is there something wrong with me that I don't get it, you know, and, and so then you're like, yeah, okay, yeah, I like them too, I guess. But if you just pay attention to your, your intuition and your red flags, you, and you give yourself permission to have those, those thoughts, and you actually do. For me, anyways, I'm, I'm learning to operate with a little bit more skepticism and actually saying to myself, like, okay, it's okay. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person or that I'm judgy if I feel that I'm not in alignment with someone. And like, I just did this today, like a very, very popular motivational speaker that a friend just keeps trying to pitch onto my podcast. I'm like, I don't have, I said to myself, I don't have to explain this. I'm just going to say I don't think this person's the right fit right now. But the honest truth is I don't know what it is. It's just this feeling that something's not right there.

Yes, yes, I get that. I get that. So if, okay, I want to ask about the person that actually has a business or they have a brand, they've done something online is just not going well, it's not growing and they're frustrated.

Yeah, they're probably trying to do all too many things. They're probably not paying attention to the foundational pieces of their business. So when it comes to business building, most entrepreneurs today, especially online entrepreneurs, spend more than 80% of their time on social and maybe 10% or less on email list building. You know, really cultivating your, your, your client list. And I do the opposite. So we spend 80% of our time and effort and resources on. When I say building an email list, it sounds, it's like a cheesy way of saying it, but. Or I guess a quick summary way of saying. What I mean by that is I spend 80% of my time trying to create very valuable ways to serve my audience where I can take someone off of social who wants to go deeper, someone who wants to know more, someone who's actually looking for more instruction than that they can get in a 15 second reel, you know what I'm saying? And so they're attracted by the 15 second reel. But what's the point if I'm not taking care of that person who's like, yeah, but I. This is entertaining, but I need more. I need the how to. I need the. I need the steps. I've got the motivation, I've got the interest and the desire, but I need. I need someone to show me how or where or when and all the specifics. So I spend again, 80% of my time creating something for those people or improving something that I've already created. And then my social, even my social, I would say probably 60% of my social is driving to one of those valuable resources.

So I think this is going to be a breakthrough for a lot of people listening because I think what happens is people spend a lot of time on social because it seems the thing to do.

Yeah. Makes you feel busy.

Yes. Plus there's the dopamine hit and the adrenaline and you're looking for the likes and the comments and the engagement and all of that. And it's a pop. Becomes a popularity contest. Right. And then what they think is if people want more, they should buy my stuff so they skip the step. So it's social and then. Or buy my stuff social by myself. And what you're saying is, no, you're missing a whole big thing in between. This is not just a take. Let me get your email. You're saying there's a nurture step there.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And we should be thinking about that all the time. And the nurture shouldn't just be centered around what it is we offer. Right. So you know when I say I spend 80% of my time thinking about something that's going to help my audience, you know, a lot of the time it's not something that I benefit from or that I've created. But I need you to trust me the way that my sister trusts me. So therefore, every time I talk to my sister, I'm not like, hey, you should look into Insta ClubHub. Have you thought about Marketing Impact Academy? But sometimes I do tell her that she was just here this weekend. I was telling her things that would really help her, you know, with regard to her Instagram. But I'm also telling her about the website where I get my great shoes and I'm also telling her about these wooden bowls that I found at Ikea and sent. And I sent her, I texted her the link today. So I. If I'm just good for it. Meaning, like, if I'm just serving you to serve Me it, that self centered piece detracts from the trust. Right? So, so trust is our credibility and it's our integrity and it's all divided by our self interest. So if what we're doing feels very self interest related or biased, then people's level of trust goes down. That's why I always tell people, you know, if you really want to connect and sell to people, then stop selling your stuff and just start suggesting things that made your life better and from time to time interject your own stuff in there. But you should be talking about everything that makes your life better.

You do such a good job of that too. Um, in fact I, I think I should be mad at Brooke, should be mad at you, my husband, about our Amazon bills because Chalene Daily shows which is found on Amazon and I, then I have to have it too. So that's, that's your, that's the effect that you have.

But those are my favorite people to follow is the people. It's like, okay, not only are they teaching me something about where their expertise is, but they have, they actually genuinely are concerned with sharing things that make other people's lives better in other areas.

So you look at email, it's interesting because I think a lot of people starting out, I mean I'm talking right now about the person that has the business and they're, they're struggling. They look at email as an annoyance, like, oh, it's something I have to do. It's spammy. I don't like it. They're, they're really looking at what that, their patterns of it. But I don't believe people are thinking of it the way that you're talking about it, that it's truly, it's an invitation to the party. It's like they, you met them on social, but it's an invitation now. And if it's done right, I would imagine people are excited to open the emails. Like they're looking forward to them.

That's right. That's right. And you know, so we aren't a big email blasting company. We, we're big on, I believe in segmenting. You know, you've got to know who wants this information, who needs this? Because if you're sending an email to people that doesn't align with why they gave you their email address in the first place, it's not going to get opened. And so you're constantly cleaning out your email list and it's a constant rotation. Right. Like, so just like with social media, every day you're losing followers every day I'm losing email subscribers. So. And some of those people, they sub out and then they see a new offer and they sub back in. So it's, it's a con, it must be a constant decision to replenish that pool because sometimes you're replenishing, you're inviting people back into the pool who jumped out because their fingers were getting soggy, but they still want something from you. So, and there's so many people that, gosh, have been listening to me or they'll say like, I've been following you for 15 years or even 20 years and this is the first time I ever bought anything from you. And so it is a long game. It's a long game where you just keep showing up as you with integrity, the same person every year, regardless of what it is you're doing. So for that person out there who hasn't yet started and you feel like you have to find your thing, no, you don't find your thing. You just friggin pick your thing and it will evolve. I'm not doing what I was doing five years ago. I'm not doing five years ago. I wasn't doing what I was doing 10 years ago. You can continually evolve, but I have some of the same customers because while what it is I'm doing changes, I don't change. I'm the same person, you know, I show up with the same integrity. That trust is built there. So that way you don't have to constantly be looking for new customers every time you either reinvent yourself or you take on a new passion or a new interest.

You know what, I fully agree with that. I think looking at my social, my socials followed a similar journey where I've had way different focuses over the years. And I have very, some people that are very consistent, they followed me no matter what because they feel like they're my friend and I consider them my friend on here. So I love that. Okay, talk to me about the person that is thinking right now. Okay, I'm hearing you. Like I need to nurture my email but I don't have the big huge team or I don't have all the money to go hire all the people that Chalene has. Talk about that.

I learned from my own father who's an entrepreneur, how to be an old school entrepreneur. So I grew up thinking that you learn how to do everything yourself and you'll save money if you figure out how to code your own website and design your own Shopify page and you figure out how to connect an email list to that free thing that you want to download. You figure that out because you'll save money. And you know, it took me a lot of trial and error and nearly working myself into the ground and then learning from other, you know, new school mentors that that ain't the way to do it. You know, today to get ahead faster and have a life, you have to invest in people. But that's really a difficult concept to embrace when your business ain't making any money, right? Or you're just starting and you're like, I'm at a negative. Which is where we were when we made our first hires. We were, you know, in debt. But here's what I learned. I don't have to hire someone full time or permanent. So remember these words. Hire someone on a temporary part time basis as a trial. And by that I mean like maybe five hours a week, ten hours a week. Go to Fiverr F I v e r r.com, go to upwork.com go to onlinejobs ph and just look at some of the job postings, look at some of the things that people can do for $5 and ask yourself if this person can do this for $5. And right now I'm spending two or three hours a week doing this. That means I'm. I'm paying myself 10 times, 100 times what this person's. I'm going to save money by having this person do that and I'll have more life left and I'll have time to do other things. So the key here is just to think about the very smallest thing. Like I said, start small. The very smallest thing that you're willing to outsource first on a temporary part time basis and just give it a try.

Something else I want to add to that that you.

I don't even know if I'll close my window so I don't get these lights on standby.

Ok.

Good enough.

So I'm going to share something about you. I don't even know if you realize you do this. You probably do deep down, but this is what I love about you. I believe you do learn everything first kind of on a bootstrap way. Like you don't take the crazy honor student way. You're like what is the shortcut to this? And I'm going to figure it out. First you do do that first and then you go and delegate. And that's what I love about like what you teach in marketing Impact. And what you teach is because or what you've taught me over Time, because you learned sort of a simple way first for people, so it doesn't seem scary. And then once you got it, you're like, okay, now let me delegate to somebody that can make this better or can do this faster or could do this grander.

That's what I think you do most things. But some things, I mean, that's true. That's a fair assessment because it's like anything. Well, I can hire a paint. I know how to paint. I could paint. I could paint a room. And I know enough that if I hired a painter and he weren't or she weren't doing a great job of prepping the room, I would know that was being taken advantage of. So I know just enough to know if I'm being taken advantage of, but not so much that I am the best one to be doing it in most instances. But today, I would say with a lot of tech, which is a lot of online business, there are a lot of things where I know it needs to be done, but I don't know how to do it. And I don't need to know how to do it. I don't know how to. Today I would have to relearn how to connect my free PDF so that it was automatically delivered to someone who gave me their email address. I could do it, but it take me a couple of hours. So I don't need to know how to do those things now, but I need to know that I've hired the right person.

Got it. And you've learned how to do that. And you're the one, you're one of the first people that taught me about hiring, slow, firing, fast and hiring. You also told me, gave me advice a while ago to hire a few people for the same project.

Yes. Huge. Especially when you're talking about something small. Right. So say, for example, you want someone to. I'm just going to give everyone an example that they could put to place, put into place immediately. So you need to post more to your social media. Everybody does. So let's say you go to Fiverr or Upwork and you hire maybe three people to create 10 text posts for you. And you tell them, I need you to find the quote in this genre, I want each of them to look a little different, but I want my brand logo at the bottom or my, my Instagram handle. And you have, you have three different people do that for you. And you're going to, let's say you pay each one of them $15. Right. So now you're into it $45. But what you've done is you've worked with three separate people all at the same time. And that gives you the opportunity to compare apples to apples. And then you can also see like, gosh, I really enjoyed chatting with this person. They got it right away. I didn't have to correct their work. They were super responsive, they were polite, they were all the things that we assume people are going to be when we interview them. But sometimes they're very different when we hire them. And you really get a sense of like, wow, I don't have to go back to the drawing board. I can just pick one of these three. And the way you post that job is to say this is just a one time temporary position that could turn into something more, more permanent or more regular. And that way you don't feel weird like saying, oh, sorry, I have to let you go, because you really just hired them for one little thing. And I can't even tell you how many great members of our team started off that way. You know, just us, us giving them a shot. So many. And they, sometimes they'll really surprise you.

And something you've done a great job of letting go of. And I'm working on it is perfection, mistakes and not caring. Can you speak into that? Because I think that's something that a lot of people, me included, do struggle with that, you know, oh, I gave us, I hired this person or I did this and now look at this.

I wish I could tell you that that's something I've overcome, but I've never been a perfectionist. Even though I'm the oldest and oldest are usually perfectionists, mistakes have never bothered me. I don't, I don't care because I know that if I'm worried about mistakes, I'm going to slow down and I'm going to be afraid to fail. I'm going to be afraid of people's judgment. So I don't care. I'll just, let's go, we can fix it later. And I guess it's just the way I grew up. So I don't know that I have any great words of wisdom here except to say that the most successful people I know are the ones who will fail and are not afraid to fail over and over and go. Like, you know, because you, the quicker you recognize that there's a failure, the closer you are to being better, or I don't want to say perfect because that doesn't even exist, but you know, the closer you are to being right, the closer you are to getting it Right. So if, if I'm afraid to put something out because I'm like, oh, what if it's not good enough? What if it's not the right time? What if it's not ready? What if there's a typo? What if it's all these things you, it'll never get better, so you'll never launch it. And I think, I think parents do a number on their kids. So my recommendation is go to therapy. If that's literally something that you. It's just therapy is my answer to most of these things. Because I, there's so many people that I'm like, I want to shake them and say, you have what it takes. Why did your mom and dad do this to you? Or and sometimes it's just self imposed pressure.

Yeah.

You know, like some people are just born that way. Like their parents didn't put any pressure on them, but they're like, my DNA tells me it's got to be perfect.

Well, there's two things that you said to me that really stuck with me. So I will share them because I think it might help somebody. I remember years ago, I mean this is, gosh, eight years ago or so I remember doing a free opt in for a workout program and I made a post and I put this free opt in up there and I went to the movies with my husband and I remember in the middle of movies, why I was checking my phone, I don't know, but I checked my phone and there were all these messages about the link being broken or the link not working. And I panicked. Like, oh my gosh, all these people can't get my free thing. And I told you about it and you said, and, and I said, well, they're all upset. You're like, you were giving them a free thing and you're upset that they can't get it immediately. And just you saying that to me, like checked me as to, wow, what was my intention and then was my intention to have everybody love me or to give them something that was going to help them? If it was to give them something that's going to help them that could be remedied. So that, that changed my thinking there. And then recently, this is just a couple weeks ago, I had opted into one of your, one of your things and I saw these spelling errors or something and I started sweating for myself. I'm like, Julian. And I said, I just found all these mistakes on. Do you want to know what they are? Do you not care?

She.

And she tell me about, I'm like, Like, it's no big deal. So I tell her, and she just kind of laughed with me, and I said, wait, yeah, this isn't a 911 emergency. And you said, you said, you know, we've done this much revenue, this much thing. I'm helping this many people. If I. It's a good thing. If I let that stop me, I wouldn't be helping all these people.

Yeah. You know what's. Okay, here's what's a crazy fact about that. We've had over 150,000 people download that same PDF, the one that you. You know, and it was something that we outsourced. Right. So I had a virtual assistant create that, and for whatever reason, it didn't get proofed, and over 150,000 people have downloaded it, and it helps out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It helped them. And it's our number one converter. It's helped us to make millions in sales. Yeah, but from what. As far as I can tell, you're the first person who brought to our attention that they're now, does that mean that we didn't lose some customers who are like, I'm not signing up with this company. Look, they didn't even proofread this thing. What does that say about their commitment to quality? Sure, we probably lost some of those people, but if I was worried about that, we wouldn't have helped all those hundreds of thousands of other people.

Well, you gave me a huge breakthrough around it. I screenshot your message, and I forget what I said. Yeah. Because it was. It was so powerful to me, the way that you. Because to me, that would have been like this 911 boxer to my whole team, like, hey, we need to fix this. To you. You kind of laugh. You're like, just now, you thought it was funny. And I thought, you know what? She's. She's right. You're right. So, so many little things that I've gotten from you, from that. I want to talk about marketing impact, Acade, because you've been doing this for years, and it gets better and better. And honestly, it's like the. It's. It's the bible of everything to do and not to do in business. Can we talk about, like, I want to know, like, why you created it and.

Yeah.

Why people should be looking at this.

Well, it's changed a lot. So when I first was, you know, so I've been in an entrepreneur who's done physical products and things in person for probably 15 years before everything seemed like it was going online, and when I wanted to make that transition, to create more passive income, not to have to be in person, not to have to worry about locations, not to have to ship out product. And I wanted to shift into that. I knew I didn't know much, and I started taking, like we talked about in the beginning, trainings from different experts and different gurus and doing different webinars and online courses, going to seminars and. But there was no like, syllabus. There was no like, okay, do this first and then do this. It was like, okay, so I'm going to learn how to do a sales page. But I didn't have an opt in and I. And then I was going to learn how to do a podcast or write a book. But like, none of it was in the right order. All great information, all things that I ended up using, but in the wrong order. So I spent tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars probably doing things in the wrong order, which. And when we do things in the wrong order, it slows us down and it, it really is defeating because you feel like, God, what a waste. Because there's always like your partner who's like, what you're doing, what now, like, isn't, you know? So I just, as I was going through the process, I kept realizing, oh, okay, so this should have been done first, and then this, and then this. And I started kind of writing out a syllabus for myself. And that's why I created the Marketing Impact Academy, because I wanted people to know, like, what is the order you're supposed to do things in? Because there's all these gurus, there's this guru that teaches Facebook groups and there's this guru that teaches podcasting and this guru that teaches sales. And, you know, and you're just like, it all is important, but in what order? And so that's why I created it initially. And then eventually I realized I need to bring in a lot of other experts because I, I can't stay on top of each one of these areas and be up to date and current and be the guru on. Because the online space just kept getting more and more. There are more and more opportunities and more avenues. So what I started doing then was recruiting like the best professors.

Like, who's the best person for a webinar? Who's the best person for TikTok sales?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so then what we did is also looking at that space. So if you want to learn how to be an online entrepreneur, people offer courses and courses are great, but for, for the woman who I want to help she doesn't, can't stay focused for 12 weeks straight to finish a course, you know what I mean? Like, she can, you know, dig in for like two weeks and then she's going to lose interest for a week, and then she can dig in for a week and then she's going to lose, you know what I mean? So I needed something. I wanted to create something where it was, wasn't a course, it was a forever resource. So that when you did get your mojo back, and now you do want to know how to start a podcast, because your kids are up and out of the house, you didn't have to buy another course. You just logged back into the Marketing Impact Academy and you took the mini course that was created in there for you. And you knew it was updated and you knew it was, like, with the best expert, and you didn't have to worry, like, is this outdated or do I need to buy another course? So it's like all these little mini courses. But here's what's really important to me. Because I have ADHD and easily distracted, I tend to attract that type of. I like to take care of that kind of person. So there's a syllabus. So then even though all that information is there, I'm going to like, slap you on the hand and say, no, no, no, no, no, you don't need. You're an adult, so you can do that now if you want, but that's not the right order. So if you want to do things in the right order, do this next.

So do they get everything at one time now or is it still trickled? How does that work?

We just trickle it just for the first couple of weeks to kind of get people in the habit of realizing, like, there is a specific order. Don't jump ahead, don't get distracted by all this other stuff. But we do give them everything, you know, basically hundreds of courses now, but with the syllabus, so that if you really do care about getting there quicker, then you've got to go in the right order. Otherwise you're going to be spinning your wheels in a direction that it feels like you're making progress, but it's the wrong order. So there's two things that are really vastly different from when we originally launched Marketing Impact Academy. When people join, they take an assessment, and based on the assessment, then they are placed in a track based on where they're at, right? So there's going to be that person who's like, I just know I want a business, but I'm not sure if this is a good idea and, or I don't know exactly what it should be. Then based on their assessment, they're going to start over here in the found. They've got to figure that out first. And if someone's already got a business but it's not taking off, it's stuck, then they're going to start over here in this track and then they follow a specific syllabus. If they're in network marketing, there's a separate syllabus so like each it's very customized. But let's say you're like, okay, but now I know what my business is and I want to do network marketing. That content's still there for you too. You know what I mean? So it grows with you and it's not meant to be finished.

Yeah, I love for you to get.

In there and start making money.

I love that it's not a six week program or 12 week program or three months. It's like that you've changed it to that because that does feel. And I also love how your brain works because it works like mine with the adhd. So everything feels very organized and it doesn't feel overwhelming because I think a lot of courses it does feel like a fire hose dump and it's overwhelming. Yours is very organized and it does not feel like that.

It's. To be honest, Natalie, we have to constantly, constantly, constantly remind people that because we all have this mentality that I have to finish all of it. But we're like if you went to a university, would you have to finish every single degree and take every single course that's offered? No, you take what you need, you know. So we're constantly after reminding people that because people have been very brainwashed to think course, start, finish.

Yes. Well, I'm, I'm excited to dive back into marketing impact this time because I want to up my game there and what I am doing for. Because first of all, when you guys know here the price of this, you're going to fall over because I, I could not believe what she shared with me, what the price is this year for this because this is, this could be 20 times that amount. Seriously, for what the value that you give for this. But I'm, what I'm doing this time is anyone that is coming in and doing this with me like so if you're listening to this episode right now and you want to do this with me, if you just go to chalene.com forward slash Natalie, Jill, I'll know you came from me Because I'm going to be doing a group of mentoring for those of you coming in to do this with me too. So you'll have that extra help from me and my husband because we're going to be going through it as well. Yeah. So I think.

So both you and Brooks.

Yeah, both me and Brooks.

That's amazing.

Both me and Brooks. So we'll be doing that.

You have very different approaches, which I. Yes, I think that's why people respond to Brett and I. It's like you kind of get both sides of the brain and that really works well.

Yeah.

Listen, the bottom line is we're all adults and we don't have to turn in a report card to our parents. So the most valuable thing that you can offer to people is accountability.

Oh, it's so. It's so true. And I'll. I'll tell you for the. Some of you will relate to me and some of you will relate to Brooks. I always say Brooks takes two hours to watch 60 Minutes. I get it done in 30 minutes. So I've got. I've got that quick start promoter personality. I'm all. I love sales. I love marketing. I'm fast. I take action. Where Brooks is very methodical and. And he more of an analyzer. And honestly, both things are important, so it's a great balance. So what I love about us coaching people together when we do it and we do accountability is usually people relate to one of us more than the. So it's just great to have that to bounce off of. So, yes, I'm going to be. I'm excited to go through marketing impact again to dive back in. It's been a little while since I've gone through, but I've always loved and I've learned so much from you and I. And I'm excited for the group that's going through at this time and especially those of you that, that go in through chalene.com forward slash Natalie, Jill. So I know. And so we can. We can work with you directly.

You know, what you just said is, and I should mention this, that if somebody joins, they can. They can share their login with their significant other. Right. And when partners do this together, especially because the two of you as a couple are going to be coaching, it's so much more powerful. It is. And it doesn't mean you have to have. Do the same thing. But like your. Your spouse might want to start a side hustle. Your spouse might have a business that's different than yours or want to support you in Yours. And it's, it's just more fun to have like something you can do together. It's like reading a book together. It's like pretty rare to do. But when you've got a couple that are so different, the way that you guys are, the way the Brett and I are, it's fun for couples to do that together. Yeah. I love that you guys are doing that.

Yes. Yes. What are you most excited about for. For people doing marketing impact that are signing up, coming in as new students this year.

Just that it's so much easier. It used to, it used to be, to be honest, much harder to help people make money online if they didn't have a social media following. And today it's not a thing. It's just not a thing. Like, there's so many opportunities and I want people to teach this to their teenagers, to their young adults. I mean, the economy is changing. A lot of people are relying, thinking that it's safe to have your kids get a great college degree and get a great job, but it's just, it's risky. So why not have like something as a backup where you can, you know, you can provide for yourself, even if it's to supplement the income that you have coming in. So I'm most excited to teach that person who's like, I don't know if I ever want to be like a business owner, but I'm really excited to make extra money and to feel the relief that comes when I don't feel constant financial strain where I don't have to be thinking about, can we afford this? You know, there's nothing worse than constantly worrying about money. And I've been there and so have you.

Yes, I've definitely been there. And, and what I also love is if you already are a business owner, it's a, it's a library for you. It's an easy to access resource guide so you don't have to go find a million coaches or a million different other places. It's all right there.

Yeah. That's awesome.

This is, I do have one more question about it. Why is it that you can only join once a year?

Well, because there's, it's hard when we start off a new group. It's, it's very time intensive for my team and I live what I preach and that is, you know, don't put more on my plate just to make a buck. Like, it has to feel good, it has to be authentic and I have to enjoy myself. So there's an excitement when everybody starts at the same time, it's very time intensive to start a ton of new students. There's a massive amount of questions. You know, people have so much doubt when they do something like this, so much fear. And so it's a lot of saying, like you saying to people what they already know. You can do this. Just start, just do it like, I dare you to make a mistake. Go for it. I'm challenging you to make a mistake. So that's why we only open it usually just once a year. There's been a couple years where we've opened it up, you know, for a mini launch or done like a small opening because we've had the time in our schedules. But it's just exciting to do it. Everyone doing at the same time.

Oh, so good. All right, well, I'm going to put the link below. It's chalene.com forward slash Natalie, Jill, go through there. So I know to add you to the group with me and Brooks, because if you don't go through there, I will not know that. And then you won't be in our, in our super cool, amazing group. So to make sure you do that, thank you so much, Chalene, for this. This was so helpful. I got a lot out of today and I hope everybody else listening did. Thank you so much for doing this.

You're the best. I love you. Thank you for having me. Thanks, everybody.