The High 5 Habit with Mel Robbins
Mel Robbins talks about the high five habit, a simple practice where you high five yourself in the mirror to build self-esteem and break people-pleasing patterns. She explains how this tool helps rewire your brain and heal from childhood trauma, plus how to use it with teenagers struggling with confidence.
Hi, I'm Natalie Jill, fat loss expert turned lifestyle and high performance coach. Welcome to Listen up the podcast. On this podcast, I do what I do best. Taking complicated information that is relevant to us now and breaking it down simply with actionable steps you can implement to level up your life. I also regularly interview some of the most inspiring and courageous men and women on the planet who at their worst, learned how to achieve success greater than anything they ever, ever dreamed possible. Creating everything from nothing. If you are new here, I encourage you to go back and listen from episode one, when this podcast was previously called Leveling up for the Full Transformative Experience. Dress, anxiety, jealousy and self hate. It's all up these days. We are all feeling it. We know we have to shift it, but it's not been easy to do.
So.
The advice we've been given is not working things like create an I am mantra. That doesn't work when you don't believe that you are whatever it is that you are saying you are. We've also been told to create a structured morning routine. It'll make all the difference that makes sense on the surface, but it leads to more feelings of failure when we don't get it right. When we don't like ourselves or we think we're failing at our life, everything starts to suffer. Relationships, our work, our goals, everything. Mel Robbins is one of the leading voices in personal development and transformation. Her work includes the global phenomenon the Five Second Rule and the upcoming High Five Habit. Today, I go deep with Mel on all of these topics. Her advice on how to shift ourselves and our children is priceless. After you listen to the episode, make sure to join her free challenge. I've got it all linked up in the show notes for you today. I'm so excited. I am finally going to interview somebody that I've admired for quite some time from afar, Mel Robbins. Mel, thank you so much for being here today with me.
Oh, my gosh, thank you. And I love your headset. I feel like we're about to call plays for the NFL.
I look like an operator. I love it. I've had arguments with my husband about this headset. He's like, it's the best one for podcasting. I'm like, but it's ugly.
No, it's not. No, it's not. You look like authoritative. Okay, call the play. Here we go. Yeah. No, not a board operator. You are the. You are literally the coach of an NFL team. Calling the plays, baby. Here we go.
Oh, my gosh. Mel, I have so many questions for you. Today. But the one I have to start with is because you are a household name. You are. You are. Like, you're. Yes, you are. You're a household name. Everyone knows who Mel Robbins is. I know my listeners do. If they don't, they're definitely living under a rock. But I want to know how you got to be who you are. Like, did you. Were you a child? That was the most popular one in school. Like, who were you? How did you even get to where you are right now?
You know, by fucking up a lot. I literally, my brand of life improvement involves either falling in a hole.
Okay.
Or more frequently through my own self destructive behavior. Digging one for myself and then hitting a crisis and having no other option but to build a ladder. And I, you know, I think that I made life so much harder than it needed to be because I just didn't know any better. And like so many people, it wasn't until I was much older that I really was able to understand how profoundly an incident of childhood trauma impacted the trajectory of my life in a way that I didn't understand. And so I on a mission to share everything that I am sharing. Because if I can save anybody the headache, the heartbreak of what it's been like to feel like you just can't get out of your own way. You can't like stop doing the things that you hate. Like, that was me for a very long time and it was a rock bottom moment. That this is kind of what most people know me for. The five second rule. That was a rock bottom moment in my life. And luckily when I hit the ground, I found something solid inside of me. And that was the true resolve to change once and for all.
Gosh, so much just in that, what you said right there. It's so interesting because so many women, especially as we approach midlife, they're in their 40s, they're in their 50s, and they'll think that they have not achieved what they're supposed to have achieved. And they'll say, my life's a mess or are just chaotic, or it's just this. And they never break past that the way that you did. Do you attribute that to relating that to your childhood trauma? What was it that made you wake up and say, no, there's something more. I get to walk through this. I've got. There's something on the other side versus doing what so many people do. Staying stuck, staying in self beat up or self medicating, you know, turning to wine.
I did that for years. Yep, Bourbon was what I Liked, wow. So it's a great question because the fact is that I discovered the 5 second rule by accident. You know, I'm in a crisis where 800 grand in debt, my husband's restaurant business are failing. It's like being in a plane as it's crashing. That's what my life felt like. And you know, and he's trying to steer the plane away from the ground and I'm standing behind him screaming at him, which does not help somebody. Just trying to rescue things. And when I discovered the five second rule, this little trick where you count backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 to get out of bed.
And I've used it. It's great.
Yeah, I, I never had the conscious thought, oh this is my calling to share this dumb thing with the rest of the world. That's what I'm going to do. That's not it. I was in survival mode for so long, I'd pin it at the first 45 years of my life. Just trying to get by, trying to not constantly feel like people were mad at me or I was screwing up or I was a bad person. All deeply held beliefs that I had about myself and, and you know what I write about extensively in the high five habit is that you got to be really careful about the story that you say because your brain is paying attention every day and it changes the way you filter the world. So all I would see is evidence of, oh well I didn't get invited to that party. See, I must have done something wrong. Oh, I don't have that kind of money. See, I did something wrong in my 30s. Oh, I don't have savings. Oh, I did something wrong didn't in Amazon 20 years ago. Like literally everything, the dumbest stuff became evidence for why I deserved a beat down. And it wasn't really until you know, this is the irony about everything in my life is that I think that my self esteem was so low and my insecurity was so high. Despite the fact that I'm a very positive person, despite the fact that I was making stuff happen, my insecurity was still very, very high. And my self loathing and my self worth, you know, just there all the time that it wasn't until perfect strangers started to use the five second rule that I saw it's worth and so I got lucky because what happened is it was through other people validating the idea that was working for me. It gave me the push to go, there's something here. It isn't just me, it's somebody like there's other people here. And it was just one or two emails is all I needed of somebody saying, I lost £100 using this thing, or I'm staying sober because of this thing that had me go, whoa. And then what kicked in is, I'm just curious. I'm really curious. And I, you know, despite being somebody that screwed up a lot, I know I have a good heart and I've always wanted to help other people and I always feel better about myself when I'm helping other people. And I've always been jealous of other people who have a profession or had a calling or had something that they were doing where they were helping other people. And so I wish that I could say that there is a magic bullet for this, but the one thing that I will tell you is if you're sitting there saying, I blew it, I haven't figured it out yet. I didn't do it yet. I didn't do this. My life is a mess. Maybe your life is supposed to be a mess. Maybe you're not supposed to have figured it out by now. Maybe all of this madness and this messiness and this stuff that you are doing right now is preparing you to be able to do what you do next. And, you know, I actually, my intention for the book, the High Five Habit was very simple. It's not about a book. This is a very deep conversation that is meant to crack something open inside of you. And maybe all that you need in order to give yourself permission to change your life or give yourself permission to pursue the things that you feel drawn toward or jealous of. Maybe all you need is some way to stop the fucking beatdown that you're giving yourself because. Oh, I just feel. I just. I just. You're a genius. You just helped me figure out the reason. So. The reason why all those people, just two people emailing me and saying, I saw that talk online and I used it and this is what it's doing. Their example silenced the beat down in my head.
You know what, though, Mel? You just. You said something interesting a minute ago. You said, I got lucky because people picked up the book. They. And they sent me these emails. You didn't get lucky. I can. I can see just in the first few minutes talking to you. What? Why things work for you the way they do and how you've impacted so many others. One, you are so incredibly relatable. And you're not trying to act like something you're not. And that's in our world today. It seems like everyone's trying to act like something that they're not. They're trying to act like they've got it all figured out, that it's perfect or they're making up a fake story because they're supposed to.
Right.
That was so real, what you just shared. I believe every person listening could hear that in themselves that you see them. So the reason your stuff has been put on the map, the reason you've been able to help so many other people is because you are so incredibly relatable. And you didn't hold back with that. I mean, you just shared. I said, why are you successful? You said all the, all the f ups. I did. You said it.
It's true. Well, it's true. I, you know, I didn't. I wish I could have learned stuff in school that would have led me here. Like, I literally. My expertise, to the extent I have it, is all life tested. I learned it the hard way by screwing up my own life and having to rescue myself.
No, let me ask you this, because when I bring up the topic of being vulnerable or sharing real experiences, I see people do that a couple of different ways. They either do it from a victim standpoint where then nobody wants to learn from them or be around them.
Right.
It's off putting. Or they do it from a place of power, which is what I just heard from you. Like, this is what I walked through, or this is what I'm walking through and this is what I figured out. Or this is what I am figuring out. Was that a learned skill for you or is that something you've always looked at problems with?
I think it's developed over time. I mean, I struggled profoundly with people pleasing. And you know, you're meeting Mel 8.0. I think a lot of my true growth began when I turned 45, when I started really becoming masterful at the 5 second rule, not just for. 5, 432 1. Make the call. 5432 1. Send the email. 5, 43 2, 1. Calm down. Don't snap. 543 2, 1. Have the hard conversation. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I could push myself to take action with it, which will change your life. When I was 45, I started using it to interrupt the worries that were triggering anxiety. What if this happens? What if that happens? What if they think this? What if the other thing? And I also started to really confront the people pleasing and that people pleasing is something I've done my whole life and I've really struggled with it. And people pleasing, what I know now, I didn't even know this when I was 45. I know this now, having invented the high five habit and practicing it for more than a year. People pleasing is not about other people. It's about your own insecurity and you projecting the fact that you don't like yourself.
So being liked, is it about. Because some people listening, they've heard that term, they don't really know what it means. I take people pleasing as you're not really knowing who you truly are. You're saying yes to others, or being a chameleon almost. You show up that you think people want you to be.
Yeah, it's manipulative. You basically are rejecting who you really are, and you're assessing every situation and saying what you need to say, wearing what you need to wear in the hopes that people will like you. And the reason why we do it is because at our core, we don't like ourselves.
Wow.
And so one of the things that I. And we've been doing it since probably about second grade, when you walk into the cafeteria in elementary school and your brain suddenly goes from being able to see yourself in the mirror and love yourself and wiggle and dance and kiss the mirror and high five yourself to then your brain somehow turns into the sorting hat from Harry Potter. And you scan the cafeteria and you go, I can't sit with those kids because I don't look like them. And I can't sit with those kids because I'm not a sports kid or I'm not this or I'm not that, or you walk towards who you want to sit with and they kind of sneer at you and don't have room for you. And then what happens is your mind starts to see the whole world as places you fit in and places you don't. And you then start talking to yourself about all the ways you don't fit in. And that's how it begins. But you weren't born this way. And so the new book and this high five habit, it is so profound because what we're really working on and what I've now completely changed is my relationship with myself. One of the reasons why, and it's always odd because, you know, everybody gives me that beautiful compliment. Mel, you're so relatable. You're so authentic. Like, you're so, like, real. And I think to myself, it's kind of funny because I have this funny little thing inside where I go, well, I spent the first 45 years of my life lying about everything. That's why I had anxiety. I literally hated myself and thought there was Something wrong or I was doing something wrong. And the anxiety comes from never feeling like you're comfortable in your own skin or that you can be yourself. And so you're constantly worried about how to act or what people are thinking or this, that, and the other thing. And it all stems back to a simple truth. You don't like yourself.
Wow. So many light bulb moments right now. And I have so many more questions. So it's interesting because you said so. I think I believe, listening to you, I feel like I'm in therapy right now. I think I've experienced the same thing in my life. What's a little different is where you said you turned to bourbon and the numbing out. I turned to fixing things on myself. So. Which is another thing. Like. Like, I've been very real with my audience. Like, first it was getting the nose job when I was 15, and then I got the breast implants when I was nine. Like, I started young. Like, what can I fix on myself? How do I look perfect? And it took me till about age 45 to figure out what the heck. What I was doing there. So there's a lot of forms that people take when they. When they're there trying to fix themselves. Like the course that I took, the numbing out with drugs, alcohol, whatever it is. And then there's people that really go into this other whole dark side and give up.
I think most of us give up, by the way, because. What do you mean? Well, numbing is a form of giving up.
Okay.
Fixing yourself is a form of, in some ways, giving up.
Mm.
Staying in survival mode and on autopilot is a form of giving up. I think most of us have given up on ourselves, and I can prove it to you. You see, there's this ugly little habit that we all have that I want to blow a hole wide open right through it. And it's this habit of how you interact with yourself every morning in the bathroom mirror. And, you know, the fact is, you only do one of two things every single morning. This is how you start your day. You either refuse to look at yourself. 91% of women don't like how they look. 50% of women won't even look at themselves in the mirror. They're uncomfortable doing it. That is a form of rejection.
Wow.
That right there is an action that communicates. I don't like the human being in the mirror. Or you pick yourself apart and you see all the things you need to fix, or you see all the things that are wrong. That's how you start Your day. And we talk all about meditation, which it is proven the benefits are incredible. But meditation just makes you more self aware and it makes you non reactive to your thoughts. It doesn't change the thoughts that you have. And gratitude, if you look at your gratitude list, it's all about shit outside of you. It's not about you.
That's so interesting because we were taught from others, like, get out of your own head, don't look at yourself. So let's look at, focus on what you're grateful for. I know an exercise that you teach is sort of tapping your heart and saying, giving yourself love, basically saying nice things to yourself. And it's funny because when I heard that you advised that, my first reaction was like a cringe like, like, I don't want to do that. But then when you do it, it actually really feels good.
Yeah. So, you know, let me talk to you about the high five in the mirror. Because I did not set out to write this book. I did not say, okay, it's coming on the five year anniversary of the five second rule. I need a title with the five. Okay, I got to write a book. That's not what happened. What happened is I woke up one morning in a really low moment. Another hole that I had fallen into and partially dug for myself. And 13 years after Chris and I were 800 grand in debt and in a financial free fall and I'm drinking myself into the ground and just numbing out. I invent the 5 second rule. I recreate my whole life. I work so hard over the last 13 years to just build a business. And in 2020 I get fired from my dream job at the age of 51 as a daytime talk show host. I have the show canceled. I have a book contract canceled, which should have happened because it wasn't for this book I hadn't even thought of. I haven't even invented the high five habit. I hadn't written a book. So they cancel the contract. They want money back. Every speech starts to cancel because of the pandemic. And I find myself feeling like, are you shitting me? I'm 50 fucking 2 years old. I've worked this hard. I have to reinvent myself again. This is how this story goes. I literally claw our way out of bankruptcy. I miss out on my kids basic high school years to try to build a business so we can pay our fucking bills. I work this hard and this is how I get rewarded. I get fired. I lose. I have to give money back that I don't like. What I was just. And my kids have imploded because college has been canceled. I mean, we've all felt it.
Yeah.
And it doesn't even, it's not even a pandemic story because everybody can relate. It's the morning you wake up after somebody says, I want a divorce or you're fired, or your mom says I'm dying of cancer or you're going to lose the house, or a kid of yours is in trouble, or just those mornings where life feels like too much, like I can't take one more thing. I'm overwhelmed. I feel defeated. That's how I felt in April of 2020. And I drag myself out of bed. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I get myself into the bathroom. I'm brushing my teeth. I see myself in the mirror and I'm like, God, you look like hell. I actually felt sad for the woman I saw in the mirror because I could tell she was scared and she was lonely and overwhelmed by life. And here's the funny thing. If you had walked into the bathroom that morning, I would have been like, come on, pick yourself up. You, you, if anybody can face this shit, you can face it. I, I can count. Like, I would have been able to pick you up.
So you were, you could focus on, on others, but you weren't doing it. And I, I can feel that I've been every woman. Yeah, I'll be all others with their method or whatever, you know. But yourself, you're like, yeah, you talk. I'm, you're literally, you're my therapist right now. Because I, I do that. I. In the morning, I'm like, okay, I got my 50 year old eyes. Maybe it's time for the eye lift. You know, I start. That's the first thing I think when I look in the mirror. Why don't we do that?
It's a habit and you don't realize you're doing it.
No, I realize it now because I'm clearly telling you you've been doing it.
For probably 40 years.
Yeah, I'm sure I have been.
You see what you don't like, you see what's missing, you see what's not, you see what's wrong. We all do it. Nobody's talking about this. It is a habit and it is how we start our day. And I won't even get into the research about how your mood in the morning and your attitude and mindset in the morning impacts the rest of your day and how it spreads to everybody. Like, there's so much research here. So add to it Mel.
That people actually, before they even look in the mirror, they're picking up their cell phones and comparing themselves to people on social media or whatever. So it's like, it's just exacerbating all of that, I would imagine.
Yep, thousand percent. And so, you know, this morning, I'm standing there, I got nothing to say to myself. I wouldn't have believed it anyway because I didn't feel encouraged. And for whatever reason is just ridiculously stupid and cheesy as it sounds, because, like, you. Look, I'm a lawyer by training. I'm sarcastic and resigned. And, you know, I'm pretty tough. So sorry. High fiving myself in the mirror of my underwear. No thanks, Mel Robbins. But for whatever reason, I literally raised my hand and I high five the woman I see in the mirror because she needed it. And you know, look, lightning didn't strike. It's not like the angels were like, oh, you know, it's amazing. That's not what happened. But there was a little flip that switched. I could feel it. It was like a shuffle in energy. I actually laughed out loud because it's so stupid. Jesus, Mel. Like, literally. That's kind of like the reaction I had. But the shuffle, the flip that hit me was like. It was interesting because it was sort of like this energy where I kind of felt the sarcastic energy where I was like, oh, for God's sakes, get out there. You got this. That was it. Sort of like a coach would be like, oh, come on, shake it off. Get it. And so I didn't even think it, though. It was more like a feeling. But it was the second morning where shit got deep. This is where everything cracked open for me. It was the second morning. So the second morning I wake up defeated, overwhelmed. Same problem, same anxiety, same. Just like, ugh. 5, 4, 3, 2. Want to get out of bed? I make my bed and then I start walking to the bathroom. I'm not even in the bathroom yet. And I feel this sensation I've actually never felt in my entire adult life. And it was this. You know how when you're about to meet a friend for a cup of coffee and you're about to walk into the cafe to see somebody you really like? What do you feel?
Excited. Like you're in your. You're more in the vision of it. Like, what's going to happen, how amazing it's going to be. Can't wait to catch up. You feel lighter.
Exactly. That's how I felt.
Wow.
About seeing me.
So it was by accident. You're Thinking to do it. But you didn't expect that feeling.
Yeah, I, you know, I'm going to be 53 this year. Before that morning, I don't ever remember feeling excited to see the human being Mel Robbins. I felt excited to see an outfit or a haircut or to put on.
I would imagine the image of, yeah.
But me, the human being, never. And so as I round the corner into the bathroom and I kind of have this sense that something profound is unfolding and I'm standing there brushing my teeth, I have this realization, there are two people in the bathroom with you every day. There's you, and there's a human being in the mirror.
Wow. Yeah. I'm really feeling how much more. I didn't. I don't even think I realized how big of an issue this is with all people, really. Mostly women. Men too, I'm sure, but of men, have this, this hating yourself. And like you said, I would have thought numbing out was just drugs and alcohol, but there's so. It's just avoidance. It's anytime you're avoiding this.
Yeah. And as I realized, holy shit, there's a human being standing there. And, you know, I believe it's basically your soul and your spirit. And, you know, I stared at this human being and I realized, oh, my God, she's trying so hard. She really needs my support. She feels beaten down when I criticize her and when I pick her appearance apart, like, I need to show up differently for her. And I asked myself this question I'd never asked in my entire life. I've asked myself this as a leader in my company. I've asked myself this before I go out and give a speech. I've asked myself this about, how am I going to show up for my kids today? Who do I need to be as a mom? Who do I need to be as a leader? I've never actually looked at the human being in the mirror and said, who do you need me to be today? Who do I need to be for her? And that morning I thought, well, I need you to be more optimistic. I need you to be a little bit more confident. Even though you're pretending, I need you to be a little more encouraging and kind. And as I thought those things and set this intention for how I was going to show up for myself today, something I've never done, I literally raised my hand and sealed it with this high five. And, you know, what happened is I just kind of kept doing this in secret for about a month. And then I post one photo just Randomly, didn't even tell anybody, hey, try it. Didn't even call it anything. And I've got a retainer in and bed head and you know, I'm just like, high five, Mel. Go get them. Within an hour, more than 100 people around the world had posted photos of themselves. And I thought, maybe I'm the only one. Maybe I'm not the only one. Yeah, who actually needs this. And so I then took on a research project and the research is shocking. So I want to explain a couple things about how you do this. Because if you want to get a handle on people pleasing, if you want more confidence, if you want to stop the relentless beat down that you give yourself all day long, if you want to start feeling more present to the things that are actually going right, the million little things you do correct every day. You get up, you let the dog out, you smile at your kids, you try hard, you send emails, you work on your dreams, you nurture your relationships, you smile at a stranger, you cook dinner. Like there's so much you're doing that you don't even give yourself credit for. And when you can't give yourself credit for all the little things you do, you're never going to be able to get the big things done or enjoy them when you do. And so the first thing that you're going to feel, because here's how you practice it, I want you to do it after you brush your teeth. Because based on research, if you stack a new habit with an old one, it's easier for you to basically encode it in your brain. The second thing I want you to realize is that it's going to feel weird. And it's going to feel weird because of the way that your brain works. Your brain memorizes patterns. That's basically what it does. And look, I'm a right hander, doesn't feel weird to write with my right hand. But if I were to lose my right arm today in an accident and suddenly I got to write with my left hand, it's going to feel weird. It's because my brain is plowing. Just like you plow snow out of driveway, it's plowing a new neural pathway into gray matter. That's why it feels weird. The second thing that you're going to notice is that there's only two reactions to this. It's either wildly positive or wildly negative. And I'm going to explain the science behind that too. Because the positive thing is that you will either burst out laughing because it seems so absurd, but it feels corny and, like, oddly good. Or you will burst in tears in a positive way. And there are so many people that write to us that say, is it normal to burst into tears when I try this? And the reason why people burst into tears is because there's this release where you finally are coming home. You realize that you have longed for this kind of support and love from yourself for decades. And it feels really good to finally give it to yourself. Now let me tell you a couple really cool things about why this is working. And then we'll get into the resistance and the negative things that people feel.
And, Mel, I don't want to forget to ask you.
Just.
I'm going to throw it out here because my ADD will skip it. Is how, when we see our kids experiencing this.
Yeah.
We apply it to them or how do we do that? Because I see a teenage daughter and I see this already. She's following in my footsteps. So.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to teach it to everybody. Because here's the. Here's the power of it. First of all, you don't have to say anything. You can feel weird. You can resist it. You can think you're a failure. You think you're fat. You can think you're this, you can think you're that. The second that you raise your hand to do the high five, your mind silences. And there's science to explain why. It's because for your entire life you've been high fiving other people. You have never high fived somebody and thought, I hate you. I hope you lose. You're an asshole. You've never done it?
No.
So your brain neurologically can't think that thought as you're making that action. In fact, when you've high five somebody, when you high five your daughter, what does it say to your daughter? What are you trying to tell your daughter?
You're amazing. You're incredible. Waiting for the job.
Great job. Keep going. I got you. We're in this. We can win. Shake it off. Come on now. I believe in you. I love you. I see you. All of that in one gesture.
So you really habit hacking with this high five gesture too? So you said do it after you brush your teeth, but it's also another habit hack that your brain knows this is way to go. Good job encouraging.
Boom. Now you're explaining the science. You're not actually having to program anything into your brain. It's already there. Yeah, you're just tapping into it and aiming it at yourself. How cool is that?
Yeah. Whereas if you were, like, putting on your makeup, doing this, that's giving the wrong message. Because now you're, like, changing yourself while you're saying something. So I get.
Yeah, you're literally. It shuts up the critic and all of your subconscious. Lifetime programming. I believe in you. I love you. I see you. You got this. We're going to win all of it. Gets married with your reflection. Yeah, that's what's happening. And then even more. I just Learned this from Dr. Daniel Amen, the world's leading expert on the brain. This isn't even in the book because I just learned it two weeks ago. When other people high five you, your brain drips dopamine when you high five yourself. Because the brain recognizes the gesture, it drips dopamine. That's why your mood boosts.
So cool.
The other reason why this works is because of your nervous system. So when you raise, you know, when you raise your arms to hug somebody, that's celebration. When you raise your arm to wave hello, it's celebration. When you cross a finish line, you raise your arms. When your team scores, you raise your arms. When you are high fiving, you raise an arm. And so your nervous system also helps you. Because when you go to raise your arm and high five your reflection in the mirror, what happens is your nervous system recognizes the action and gives you a little jolt of celebratory energy. That's why you will always leave the bathroom feeling slightly more energized, slightly more empowered, slightly more optimistic. It's actually your nervous system and your brain just doing what it always does. Whenever you high five, you're just now aiming it at yourself. Isn't this so cool?
It's so cool because I'm just thinking, I'm racking my brain about what the alternative is. And I hope people are really hearing this, because the alternative is we go in the bathroom. We've already looked at social media or our phone, and we're already feeling bad about ourselves. Now we look in the mirror and we go to, what do we want to change? What don't we like? What do we want to change? And we. Then we go about our day staying busy. So we're numbing because we're staying busy. And then you're winding down your day with wine or Xanax or whatever. You're never actually loving yourself. You're never doing it ever. And all you're saying, you're not even telling you to change your whole day. You're saying, take a few minutes in the morning, not even A few minutes.
It's actually five seconds.
Five seconds. Okay. Even better.
That's all that it is. You're already in the bathroom. You've already cleaned the crap out of your teeth, so you don't have horrendous breath all day spreading it around the world. Let's clean the crap out of your mind, body and spirit so you're not horrendous to yourself all day. You see, it doesn't change the obstacles that you're facing or the very real problems you may have. It changes you and your belief in yourself to face them. It makes you realize that you have your own back no matter what. It makes you feel seen, appreciated, and supported before you spend your day taking care of everybody else.
And I like this so much better than the I ams, because people don't believe their own I ams.
Well, mantras are bullshit. And let me tell you why exactly for what you said. If you have spent two decades telling yourself you're ugly or worthless or fat or no good or whatever else, there is no way you're going to stand in front of a mirror and say, I am beautiful.
Because you don't believe it now.
You don't believe it.
Clients to say, I'm becoming the type of person who. And that's, that's beautiful. But I. You're doing even better, though, because you don't even need to go there. You're just, you're not even addressing your, your faults. You're just jumping right into the high.
And yes, and here's the thing. The other deeper reason why this works is because of all the research around you also practice this. This is what your work is grounded into. Behavioral activation therapy, which is simply in layman's terms, act like the person you would like to become. And so if you would like to be more confident, if you would like to be more loving, if you would like to be more secure in who you are, if you would like to believe in yourself, if you would like to feel supported, act like a human being who actually believes in themselves and loves themselves. And you know, you can imagine Oprah Winfrey high fiving herself. You can imagine people that you love and respect high fiving themselves. You can imagine Mel Robbins high fiving herself. So when you raise your hand, even on the, especially, by the way, on the mornings where you're like, ugh, when you raise your hand, your mind goes silent and your brain notices, whoa, wait a minute, she actually likes herself here. She's acting like a person who believes in herself because the High five isn't I'm amazing. The high five is, I get it. It's hard. And guess what? I'm still here cheering for you.
So does it matter what you're saying with it when you're doing it?
No. You don't have to say anything. The high five communicates it. So let me talk about the resistance, okay? Because this is what most people feel. Most people will get to the mirror and then they're going to feel this, like, I don't want to do this or why would I do this? This was my husband. Why would I do this? Like, I haven't done anything that's worthy of a high five. So let me talk about the resistance. Because when you stand before yourself in the mirror every morning in the bathroom, subconsciously you drag your past in there with you. It's between you and the human being in the mirror. So if you have a past where, like most of us, you've either experienced abuse or trauma or discrimination or neglect or abandonment or heartbreak or any of the terrible things that can happen in the course of your life, too many of you pull that into the bathroom and you see that as evidence that you're damaged or unworthy or not good enough or unlovable. And that means you see a human being that doesn't, quote, deserve a high five. Or if you're like the rest of us, you've done shit you regret, whether it's lying or stealing or cheating or addiction or hurting other people or hurting yourself. Just all shit that you did while you're trying to survive, Stuff that you would forgive Natalie, Jill, or me for, but you won't forgive yourself for. And so you carry all that in and you see a person who's a failure or who's a bad person or who didn't do what you said you would do. And so you decide that you don't deserve a high five because of that. And so here you are in the bathroom, judging yourself and withholding the very love and support that you need in order to heal, in order to forgive, in order to change for the better, in order to move on and grow. You're standing in judgment instead of standing in support and understanding and in compassion. And the other reason why people resist this is because we've got it all backwards. You've convinced yourself that you gotta have the money in the bank or you gotta be the number on the scale or the size pants you wish you were. You gotta have less kinky hair, be darker, lighter, or this or that, or drive the Range Rover Live in the neighborhood or have different friends or have figured life out, or have a clean kitchen before you've earned a high five. That's not what this is about, actually. It's not about earning anything. This is about giving yourself the support that you need and that you deserve.
And it's so simple. Mel, how do we help kids? I think would be easy. Just get your kids, do it with you. But how do you help a teen? Like, I think of my teenage daughter, she's 14, who is a mirror. Teens are mirror for us. They really are.
Right?
So I see a lot of the stuff that I struggled with, a lot of the. Like, I feel like I'm her. Like, when I hear her talking or if she's beating herself up or she doesn't like something on herself. How do we help them? How do we parent? Well, knowing this with them.
This is a tremendous question. And let's keep in mind, I'm one mom sharing my experience. And I'm not a therapist, I'm not an expert in child psychology, but I have a tremendous amount of just stuff to share because of my lived experience of being that kid and my lived experience of being a mom to three kids who have all struggled at various times with anxiety or insecurity, and in many cases, still do. And I have also learned things the Mel Robbins way by screwing up first. And so let me tell you the bad news first. The bad news is you cannot rescue them. You cannot prevent this from happening. And when we try to rescue them or we try to stop their anxiety or we try to prevent their worries, what I have learned the hard way is you are making them worse. Because when we step in and try to fix it, what we're communicating, when we say, yeah, you can sleep on the floor of mommy's bedroom, or, I'm going to call that parent, or I'll just buy you that thing. Okay, you need a prom dress. It's $400. Because you're insecure with the one that we got at TJ Maxx. Okay, I'll just buy it for you. What you're actually communicating is I don't think you're strong enough to face this. And that makes their anxiety worse.
Wow. And really what I just heard, too, is that's just another form of our people pleasing. Like, if my daughter's like, I need this dress or whatever, me getting that for her is a form of people pleasing.
And what you're teaching her is that when I'm anxious and stressed, that's how I manipulate people to get me what I want.
Wow.
I learned this the hard way. Yeah, I learned this the hard way. There's a really interesting expert, I wish I could remember her name in New Hampshire that specializes in kids and anxiety. And she came and lectured at the high school, and the whole time I was like, oh, my God, I have made every mistake she's talking about. And now I see why I'm in this frustrating gridlock where their anxiety accelerates. I argue against it, then I succumb to it. I buy the fucking prom dress. Then I'm pissed off that I bought the prom dress, that I'm this, that I'm that. Then they end up buying something on Shopbop or whatever the hell it is for $30. Now I can't return the $400 one. Now I'm.
I live that. I'm in the same loop. So what you said.
So this sentence will change your life. It's a great sentence for business, too, and that's this. Do you want me to give you advice or do you just want me to listen? Nine times out of 10, my kids would say, I need you to listen. And the other piece of advice that will help the anxiety gridlock is to go from being the one that solves the problem to helping your kid figure out how to solve the problem. So facilitating your coaching. So, okay, I get it. You're upset. There's a fucking Facebook group with prom dresses in it. And the prom dress that you wanted. I write about this very story, actually, in the high five Habit has already taken. You're now freaking out. You need a $400 prom dress. Well, I can understand. Do you want me to listen or do you want me to give you advice? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Can I buy this dress? Well, here's what we're going to do, hon. The answer is yes, you can buy this dress. I am willing, as I've told you, to pay for this. To pay for the tanning, to pay for the makeup, to pay for the hair. The budget for the dress was X. You can absolutely buy the $400 dress if you can figure out how to make the difference. Yeah, so you flip it on them. Let their anxiety fuel them to be motivated to take the actions to fix something. Do not solve it for them because their anxiety is triggering. That's the issue. You made me feel it. Made me feel it in our nervous system.
You know, you made me feel really good about something. I just did.
Good. Let's.
I was running through the same thing with my Daughter all the time, the same money story. But what we did for her birthday is we gave her cash and we opened up a credit card for her, like. And what we said was, here you go. So you've got this lump of cash, here's your card. You now get to make your own decisions. But this is all the money that you got. This is it. This is your money.
Yeah.
So you can do this, but you're going to have to. You're going to see the bank account, you're going to see it going down, you're going to find ways to put it in. And it was funny because the very first thing that she wanted was nails. She was really set on having fake nails. That's what she wanted. And I said, it's going to cost you probably $60 with tip, whatever.
So she went, just talk about that for a second.
Yeah.
What the fuck is going on with all these teenage kids? The pointy, $70 pointy.
I know, the pointy.
The Kardashians, I guess. I don't know. But it's what she wanted.
But it was, but it was, it was painful for me to watch, but it was good because I watched her pay for it. And then watching the number go down and then right away go into this whole thought process of like, how do I earn money? So I think it was a good exercise. I feel like I'm headed in the right direction.
You can't tell them what to do. You have to have them experience it. And you got to show them what to do.
Yes.
And so that's exactly the right way to do it. And it's harder. It's harder because we have to slow down, we have to be patient. We have to let them then do what they need to do. It's easier to just lay the money down because then the argument stops, the anxiety drops, the headache's gone. Actually taking the time to talk to them and to make them problem solve for themselves is harder. But in the long run, you will help them tap into the resiliency inside of them and you will help them to learn that no matter what they're facing, they have within them the ability to slow down their nervous system. This is another tool in the book. It's called high fiving. Your heart. Where you put your hands on your heart and you. This is the exercise I did say, I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm loved. You repeat it over and over and you're toning, you're flipping another switch called your vagus nerve and you're turning off your stressed out, I need the prom dress nervous system. I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm loved.
If you were to tapping when people do tapping, is that kind of that same concept?
I have not ever done tapping. I've heard that it, that it's really beneficial. I've never done it. It's not the same as far as I know. Because what I'm using in terms of the science is something called your vagus nerve, okay. That runs from your butt all the way up to the top of your head. It is a treasure in your body. It goes through every major organ. It goes through your vocal cords and it is the on, off switch between your fight or flight nervous system and what's called your parasympathetic at rest nervous system. You have the power to high five your heart. You put your hands right on your chest, you press, that's going to press against the vagus nerve. And then you say the three sentences after you take a deep breath and then you go, I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm loved. And it actually helps after you fight with one of your kids because typically for me, what happens when I fight with one of my kids is I feel like a shitty mom. Yeah, I hate when they're upset. I hate when we argue. I hate when, you know, I have to do the tough love thing. I hate when they call me out on my stuff. And I typically leave most arguments with our daughters in particular feeling fried and feeling like a bad person and feeling like I've done something wrong and feeling on edge and wishing that we hadn't just had that exchange and putting my hands on my heart after that and saying, I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm loved. It like silences the I'm a bad person, I'm a bad mom. I'm screwing things up. I can't get anything right. I go right down. I've never around. I work too much, it stops it. And it also turns off that on edge, stressed out, dysregulated anxiety, nervous system. And it brings me back into my body so that I can say, no, I'm doing the best I can here. I'm trying. I make mistakes. We just had an argument and it's okay.
What I love about it is it also, it sounds like it sort of brings you back to neutral because I think when we are in that state of we just had an argument or we're stressed and now we're in the people, please. We've got all this Stuff floating around. And then we react in a way that's not ideal, either overcompensating or whatever. We react badly. But what you're doing, not only does that help your mind settle, but I think it just brings you back to neutral so you can make judgment, take actions from a neutral place.
Yep. Yep. There's a couple of the things I'll share with you relating to daughters that are not fun to admit, but I will. I will. I will share them because they're mistakes, again, that I made one of them is one of the reasons why the high five habit is so important is because women in particular are socialized to look outside ourselves for validation. So we're putting on makeup. We are socialized to believe that our worth is in our looks and our figures and our weight and our appearance. And, you know, there seems to be this sort of thing where, for whatever reason, as girls, we think the boys are the. Or the other girls are the ones that are the picking. You know, they get to pick. I'm supposed to be presentable to be picked by somebody else. I don't get to decide who I like. I gotta wait for somebody to like me. So we are literally. And again, it's because we don't like ourselves that we do this. And so girls in particular, especially with social media and the pressure of fitting in and just what's happening in those years is that so much of your power, you've outsourced to whether or not other people like your blouse or like your jeans or your makeup's right or you're following the right trend or you did the right TikTok video challenge thing or whatever, that teaching somebody how to come back to themselves and be with themselves in the mirror is super powerful. Because the other thing I learned the hard way is when somebody hates themselves, it doesn't matter what we say to them. If you have a daughter that thinks she's fat or ugly or the biggest one or a bad person, there's nothing you can say. Yeah, compliment all their attributes, not their looks. You're loyal, you're funny, you're smart, you're a hard worker. You're an amazing daughter. All the things other than looks, I, for too long, was like, oh, you're beautiful. Oh, you look great. Oh, I love that outfit. Like, just the. I did that for too long.
So can you explain why that's bad to do?
Well, because you're also reinforcing that their value is in what they look like and what they're wearing, rather than, hey, you know, I noticed you were really patient with your brother yesterday. I really admire that in you.
It's so hard, though, when they're tearing themselves apart. Like, if my daughter's tearing her face apart, it's hard to notice.
But here's. Here's what I'm going to say.
Yeah.
When we say, but you're so beautiful, do you know what happens?
What?
It actually makes their critic louder because we're not hearing them. We are being the I am statement.
Makes sense.
And so.
And plus, it doesn't work anyway. She'll say to me, but you're my mom. That's why you're saying that.
Well. And she doesn't believe it. And when what you want to say instead is, well, that's terrible. How did. How does that make you feel to see a face you don't like? What do you think might change that? What do you think it would take to actually look at yourself in the mirror and really like yourself? And if she's snarky and says, a nose job, be like, okay, what else? What is a new nose fix? Like, what are you really not? Like, what is it like? Like, because there's something deeper going on. Force her to go there. That's good. And, you know, the other piece of it, and this is something I didn't realize until I wrote the book. Oh, my God. Another mistake I was making. So I was talking to our daughters about this very issue, how they pick ourselves. Because I look at my daughters and I'm like, okay. When I look at the troll that I looked like with my Dorothy Hamill haircut in high school and my argyle sweater and my corduroys, I had that same uniform. Compared to these bombshells that we've all cranked, like, what the hell?
They don't have an awkward stage anymore. There's no awkward stage. What?
So, you know, I was having conversations with them about it and talking about how I just see these stunning human beings. And they were like, well, the reason why we criticize ourselves is because you criticize is because we think you're beautiful and we hear you trashing your looks. And I'm like, what? I don't trash my looks. What are you talking about? They're like, every time we take a photo, you look at it and you say, oh, do I really look like that?
Wow.
And I said to them, I do. That's what I say when I take a photo. And they said, yeah, almost every time we take a photo. And so they said, if we look at you, mom, and we think you are beautiful and we hear you trashing yourself. You have basically trained us, even if we are beautiful, to look at ourselves and trash us. Because if you can't believe that you're good looking, why would we believe that we are? And I was like, okay, well, that's three years of therapy right there for me. And thanks a lot.
That's really good.
You gotta really watch how you're talking about yourself.
Yeah. Oh, so much good information. I feel like I just had a full and therapy intensive listening to you.
Well, make sure you high five yourself right after the student.
I've got a high five daughter.
Be like, and I'm gonna grab your.
Book for everyone I know because that's. I. This is so critical. So critical. The high five habit. Gosh, Mel, this was so good today. This is so helpful. Thank you so much. I'm gonna. Everyone needs to get the book. They need to get both your books, actually. But this is the more this is right.
Get the high five habit.
Get the high five habit. You get.
And you and I have partnered on this challenge. So in the show notes and I know you're gonna email everybody.
I will email, I will put it in the show notes exactly how to be part of this challenge and five.
Day high five challenge. Come join us.
I love it.
Don't be in your bathroom alone. You can do it alone. But let Mel Robbins high five you back for five days, baby.
Thank you so much, Mel, for doing this today. Thank you.
You're awesome.
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to listen in as my guest today. If you found this episode valuable, please share it with friends and on social media. I don't advertise this show, so I rely on word of mouth and reviews to get it out in the world. The biggest thank you that you can give me is leaving me a review and a nice one. I hope, by the way, this is how others find these episodes. If you do leave me a review, be sure to message me@supportataliejo fitness.com with a screenshot of your review because I would love to send you a free digital download of my DSR journal as a thank you. And please don't forget to connect with me on social media and at Natalie Jill Fit on Instagram and Facebook.
