The Power of Mindset: Beating Cancer and Embracing Life with Heather Chauvin

Today on Midlife Conversations, I've got Heather Chauvin. And I can't wait to dive into this interview today because she is a leadership coach and she's highly emotionally intelligent and she really teaches this with women. She's so good at this. But when I was diving into her story and what makes her tick and what made her step into this role and create, it was back in 2013 that she was diagnosed with a stage four for cancer diagnosis. So I can't wait to talk with you today, Heather, because I'm, I know you've got so much value to add to my audience here. I, I'm dying to know more about this story, how you overcame that, how this led into what you do today. And I'm really excited for my audience to take away some skills, tips, tricks, all the things that they need to start turning obstacles into opportunities. So thank you so much for being here today.

Yeah. And I'm excited for this conversation. Thank you, Natalie.

So let's take us back. That was quite a year for you, I would imagine.

Yeah. Yeah. So 2013. I always tell people cancer was not my first aha moment. Oftentimes when you hear someone having like a big crisis in their life, they're like, it was my awakening and I was never the same after that. And cancer was not my first Aha. But it was the moment in my life that taught me how to embody how I wanted to feel. And so I like to go back before that, nine years before my cancer diagnosis or the cancer diagnosis because I also don't want to identify as like it was mine. It just passed through my life. It taught me a lesson.

Yeah.

But it was actually motherhood that cracked me open. So I became a mom when I was 18 years old. I was young and it was my first. Like, I would say I was an underachiever at that time, highly sensitive, a little rebel, always questioning like my, my teachers and asking like, but why, but why, but why? And I remember looking at my son for the first time, obviously, you know, terrified that I'm going to fail as a woman and I'm using air quotes as a good mother because I was doing things backwards. And that was when I like looking back at my story. That's when I now became an over perform farmer. And so that's where the hustle started because I wanted to be good. So I started checking all the boxes as I was supposed to. And I remember feeling exhausted. Right. And I know you're, you know, familiar with this, Natalie, and it's like oh, it just is what it is. But there was a part of me that was like, this is not sustainable, right? The overwhelm, the exhaustion, the fatigue. And I just had that inner feeling of, like, not this, not this. Like, I can't do this. So when I started seeking externally for help from, like, traditional ways of being, like, you go to therapy, you go to your doctor, you do the things. I'm getting feedback like, this is adulthood. Suck it up, buttercup. But yet that part of me that rebel, that, like, critical thinking, I was like, no, there has to be another way. So then I get into personal development. Then I start reading the books, I start attending the workshops and finding spirituality and meditation and mindfulness. So my son is teaching me to literally come back home to myself, right? Because I'm doing all of these things to support him. And then he starts showing me anxiety and anger, like, human emotions. And I'm getting calls from the school, and I don't know how to answer these questions because I don't know how to answer them within myself. So I leave my job. I was. I used to be a social worker. I leave my job as a social worker, still want to make a huge impact in the world. I get into podcasting. This was, like, forever ago, before anyone knew what it was. I get into the whole online space, and I'm, like, speaking my truth, doing my thing, and I'm, like, feeling good in most areas of my life, except I don't know much about my physical health. So that's when it comes to 2013. And I want to say this before I talk about my diagnosis. At the time, I'm working with parents, and we're really focused on the parent child relationship, and. And they're saying to me, like, how do I fix my child? How do I get them to talk, listen to me, how do I do all these things? And they're also saying to me, I don't have time to implement this. My marriage is falling apart. I have no energy. And I'm like, okay, but this is what we're focused on. This is why you hired me. So then 2013 happens, my diagnosis, and I just remember this moment. So, like, I feel like I was, like, the diagnosis itself was like, I was primed and ready, and I just remember going, I'm. You finally have my attention.

So we back up a minute with this because. So you were very much in hustle culture. You understood it. You're dealing with clients in hustle culture. You get that. But you're practicing personal development, mindfulness meditation. You're doing all, you're doing the checklist of things like that. This is what I should do. What was going on in your health, the time, like, were you eating well? Were you working out? Were you doing the check boxes there too? Or had you let that go? I want to make sure I understand that part.

So health wise, like the eating and the exercising, I was so overwhelmed. Like, I, it was, I was not in that world. So making a green smoothie was incredibly overwhelming to me. So I was learning about these things, but I was so disconnected from my body.

Like, it wasn't like mindful eating. It was just more like, I'm trying to get it in, I'm checking it off, but it's not, I'm really not connected to this.

100% incredible. I was more into the spirituality, mindfulness, felt more comfortable in that zone. But the whole nutrition and movement was incredibly overwhelming to me. And then you get into the orthorexia of like, I'm afraid, I'm afraid to eat because if it's not organic, then what? And so I remember trying to learn about food and feeling so overwhelmed by it. Like, there's a good way and there's a bad way.

You were taking hustle culture to the food thing too, like this 100%.

But I was still questioning, like, why can't I just eat an apple? Does it matter if it's organic or not? It's better than eating a bag of chips. But then it was like, that's not what I'm reading. That's not what I'm hearing people talk about. So it was just so overwhelming. And I didn't know how to like, deeply trust myself.

So what was the. How did you end up in the diagnosis of cancer? Like, how did, what was going on in your health that said I, I need to go look at this.

So I started getting abdominal bloating and I went to a walk in clinic. I live in Canada, so the healthcare system's a little bit different. Went into a walk in clinic and there they literally looked at me pressed on my stomach and was like, does this hurt? And I'm like, no. And they just, their eyes got bigger and they're like, we don't know what to tell you, but if it gets worse and you're in pain, go to the emergency room. So then I start telling myself this story of like, I don't have time for this, I don't have time. And so I go on the bottom of my to do list again. I'm now angry. I'M resentful. I do not feel supported. And then it just. My abdomen started getting bigger and bigger. And this is within like weeks. My abdomen started growing. I was getting night sweats. But I'm kind of like completely disconnected to my body. So I don't even know these things are happening. Like I'm out of my mind, if that makes sense. Like it's in the middle of winter. I'm opening, I'm opening the, what do you call it, the windows. The sheets are off. And my husband's like, this is not okay. So I'm like, I'll be fine, he'll be fine. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's. Maybe I have a gluten allergy. Like I'm just in denial, right? So go to the hospital. I go to the hospital one night by myself that my husband stays home with the kids. My youngest was a year at the time, so they were like 9, 5 and 1. I thought maybe my body's just getting back after. Baby still breastfeeding. And that night I leave emergency room because I'm looking around and I'm like, I'm not sick enough. I do not deserve to be here. I'm wasting my time. I'm wasting, you know, the frickin health care system. So I leave when in reality I'm running away because I'm scared that they're going to tell me something is wrong. So the second night I go back, my husband comes with me and he's like, I am not leaving until someone sees you. So Natalie in the emergency room, they do a CT on my abdomen and blood work and within a few hours they're like, heather, you have cancer. There's little cancerous tumors all over your abdomen. And based on your age and your blood work and what we see on your CT, we know you have cancer, like 100%. We just don't know what kind. And the crazy part was it was confirmation. I was like weeks before and I wrote, wrote about this in my book, I actually said out loud to my husband, what if I have cancer? And I felt like I was running away from that until I couldn't run anymore.

Whoa, so you felt like it was confirmation? What was the, what was that next step? I'm assuming because you're a hustler and that was your, what you were trained. It was like, okay, checklist, what do I do to fix it? Was that what went into your brain? Did you get scared? Did you like, did you learn about emotions right then, like where, what happened and where did this connect to that next phase?

Yeah, so I can get things done. And I definitely did that to make sure the diagnosis was correct. And I also came from. I was already into personal development in that whole world, so I was very resistant to. To Western medicine. Like, mentally. I did not want to go down the traditional path. So I had these, you know, holistic people in my life being like, do this, do this, do this, do this. Which is overwhelming. But I had to kind of surrender to the fact that I wasn't in a state where I could be proactive about my health. I wasn't. I couldn't even be reactive. Like, I was in a crisis. Like, it was growing so fast within two weeks of them saying, you have cancer. And this is through the holiday season, so no one's available. Yeah, I had to readmit myself into the hospital because my abdomen was growing so fast. And I had. I finally surrendered. And I'm like, I will receive Western medicine. And so I had to. I had no money at the time either, so we just had to do what was available to us. And I'm like, I have to trust these healthcare professionals. So. So I'm getting that energy from the outside of both sides where people are like, do this, don't do this. It's poisoning your body. It's going to kill you. And I'm like, I have to surrender and just deeply trust myself. And that's where I felt like I went on the spiritual journey, which was watching and observing not only my reaction. Like, I feel like it really taught me how to manage fear when you're facing, like, your deepest fears, but also watching and observing everybody else's. That, you know, I was the rock for everyone. I was the first person people go to when something was wrong. And I was their free therapist. And I was all the things.

Oh, my gosh.

And I realized that when you know your rock, your person is sick or they're not doing well and you don't know how to cope. Everyone's just puking on me, literally, like, emotionally. And that was when I had to start learning about emotional boundaries. And I just learned so much about energy. And everyone's like, projections and how to, like, the codependency of how we're always carrying other people's stuff. So when I was going through treatment and on the other side, that's where I really learned how to reverse engineer how I wanted to feel. And I talk about a lot about that in my book and in my journey as well.

So you went the traditional Western Medicine direction. You, you put a trust in it and you started working on yourself mentally and you just, you didn't go down the rabbit hole of I'm doing this right or I'm doing this wrong or you. So you really separated from the treatment, if I'm hearing you correctly, and started working more on yourself.

Yeah, I mean there was moments so ironically and maybe not ironically, I had a, I had a client at the time whose husband had cancer and they didn't live too far from me. And she goes, you know what? I think a naturopath who is in fun into functional medicine and specializes in oncology just moved to your location. And I was one of her first clients locally. And so I did take a functional approach the second I had the opportunity to. So as soon as I was like out of, you know, in remission, I ran with the functional world and I've been doing that ever since. But that belief of am I doing this right or am I doing this wrong? And I, you know, we still experience that of when, you know, when it gut health as an example, should I do this test, do I do that test, do I do this, do that? And I just think doing something is better than doing nothing. But also coming back to yourself constantly of how do I want to feel and how does this feel? Do I feel like I'm getting better? Do I feel like I'm getting more energy and always learning how to deeply self trust your body and how things were reacting. So I, I didn't let myself go there too far mentally.

How did you. So I'm, I. And I've got some deeper questions here just because I'm, I know there's people listening that are in a similar situation or will be faced with a similar situation and that's such a doomsday diagnosis. I mean that wasn't stage one or two, that was stage four. And they are saying that it spread and you're covered with it and all of that. Did they say things like you have a very small chance to live? Did they tell. Did you, did you ever believe that you were not going to make it? What was going on with your belief set of the outcome when they were telling you this?

So they ne. My oncologist was very good on not giving me like doomsday by any means. I knew that when I was diagnosed with stage four, there was no stage five. So I knew it was serious. I remember her having a moment coming into my room crying, my oncologist and she said, good news is your body is incredibly receptive. To treatment. And I was like, okay. And she goes, I didn't know if your body was going to respond. And that was one of the moments where I realized, this is really bad. Like, I was. I really disassociated, like, stage four. When people say that does not sound good. But when you are mentally in a crisis state, like, I wasn't thinking about that. I was thinking about how am I presenting myself for my children. What. You know, I was worried about everybody else and how they were cop. So I remember her also telling me, if it's going to come back, you are. You have 10 months. That's, you know, scientifically, this is what the data shows. So in my mind, I go, okay, the next 10 months, my goal is to stay alive and to thrive. And I remember going to my functional medicine doctor and doing that mentally, like. Or, sorry, doing that physically. Like, whatever she told me to do, I did. But I was also reading books on, like, radical remission and how, like, fulfillment was so important and your mindset was so important. And one of the things that I did was. Are you familiar with Abraham Hicks? Okay, so Abraham Hicks had, like, a. Like, you know, your body can heal itself meditation. And I remember brainwashing myself and physically putting it in my ears. And I would hear her say, your body can heal itself. And internally, I would be like, no, it can't. I'm sick. And I would wear it all day, every day, over and over and over and over again until I could feel. And I want people to hear me when I say this, until I could feel a spark of hope. Like, my body actually has the ability to heal itself. I just need to help it heal itself. And so I listened to things like that over and over and over again. Even if I didn't believe it, that was like, one thing that I did. My body can heal itself. My body can heal itself. My body can heal itself. So I became obsessed with that. But another thing that was a huge game changer for me was Danielle laporte's work, which was the desire map at the time. And any manifestation thing that you hear, it's all about the feeling. And what I took away from her book called the Desire Map was it's not the thing you want, it's the feeling. And I remember one day. So I knew I wanted to live, right? I wanted. I did not want to die. And I dug deep mainly. And I always tell people I didn't survive anything. It wasn't a battle. The unknown was there. I don't know what tomorrow is. Going to bring. But I just had to try, right? Jumping into the fear of the unknown. I knew if I gave up completely and didn't try, then my children were not going to have a mother. But I also knew that if I tried, my children might still not have a mother. And that's. That was what I had to deal with. So what I focused on was, it's not the thing I want, it's the feeling. And what was the feeling that I was after? And so I like to use this journal prompt. And this is like a quick tip that I tell everyone. Write down the journal prompt. Wouldn't it be nice if I'm not asking you what you want, not asking you what you, like, crave or desire, what your goals are? Wouldn't it be nice if. And I started writing things down like, wouldn't it be nice if I could go for a walk? Wouldn't it be nice if someone could give me a glass of water? Wouldn't it be nice if I could have a bath tonight? Wouldn't it be nice if I was cancer free? Wouldn't it be nice if we had a million dollars in the bank? Whatever it was? And this desire, this little, like, journal prompt became like a daily practice for me. And the next step was, what is the feeling that I'm after? And I kept writing words like, alive, energized, focused. And there was a moment, one night. So now I had this skill of I know it's the feeling that I'm after. So now I need to figure out how to feel those things when I have nothing. Like, literally, I'm at my rock bottom. I'm scared. I have nothing. And there was a night I was in the bathroom where we have our panic attacks in the middle of the night. My body is in fight or flight. And I'm going. I'm. My brain is on repeat. And I'm going, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. And I'm just terrified. And my family's sleeping. So I'm on the bathroom floor and I'm like, okay, Heather, your brain is in the state of fight or flight. You need, like, where are you? You're here. So I got my brain back to present. I'm like, I'm alive, I'm here. I'm afraid I'm gonna die. But I'm projecting into the future. This is not the truth. The truth is I'm here. I'm alive. I'm alive, I'm alive. Then the next question I ask myself is, how do I want to feel? If you don't want to feel dead, depleted, what do you want to feel? I'm like, I want to feel alive. I want to feel alive. And then, Natalie, I got scared again because I realized I knew how I wanted to feel, but I had no evidence of ever feeling that way.

Mm, that's powerful.

Yes. So then from there, that was the moment where I was like, shit. My biggest fear is not that I'm going to die. My biggest fear is that I don't actually know how to feel healthy. I don't actually know how to feel, feel alive and abundant. I read these things, so how do I learn to embody them? And that was where I started to reverse engineer and created a little process to do so.

So some things that I just took away from that and that I'm. I'm hearing is number one. I think it's really powerful. Your oncologist never spoke into a diagnosis because that is not the experience of many people, and I think that's super important. I also love that you didn't go into battle because you had kind of gone into battle with every other area of your life, and you didn't say, I am going to battle this. I'm going. You just said, it's happening. I'm going to trust. So you really, like, surrendered to what was happening. You said, I'm going to go through the motions and I'm going to work on this, but I'm surrendering. So you didn't go into a fight like a lot of people say, I fought cancer, I'm fighting this. You didn't do the battle thing. You also, like, really operated from possibility, which I absolutely love, because I think so many times people get stuck in the circumstance, which is understandable, but you, like, refuse to be in the circumstance. You're like, no, what's the possibility? What's the. And. And just even how you like, you said you played that on repeat. Our subconscious hears those things. So if on repeat all day long, you're looking at Google doomsday. This is the end of my life. Chemo is going to kill me. Whatever it is. That's the story that you're telling yourself where you said, I'm not going to take that in. I'm going to, on replay, listen to a different story, a different possibility. So I think you rewired your. Your subconscious there. And then I love what you said. The whole. Would it be nice if. Because that also speaks into possibility. I think so many times I. You Know, I tell women this all the time, that they. They come. Usually they'll come to me for fat loss. Like, that's what they want to change. They want to get healthy. They want fat loss. And when they do that, they want to give me all the reasons why it has not worked for them before, all the reasons they can't, all the circumstances, all the problems, all the evidence that it's not going to work for them. And I always say, but what is it that you want? Which to me is kind of like when you said, wouldn't it be nice if. Like, what is it that you want? Because if you can let yourself go into that possibility, that visioning, that dream, like you said, your body does not know the difference between reality and feeling. Like, it doesn't know. So you might as well drown it out with feeling and step into something.

Yeah, you. When you brought up my oncologist thing again, I was like, yes. I realized, too, something I implemented with her was boundaries. So I actually communicated how she was allowed to communicate to me.

Wow. Okay. So that's really good, because we don't do that a lot. I. You know, that's. That's so. And I want people to hear, like, your doctor is, you're the client. You're the patient, but you're the client. And so we can tell them, like you said, boundaries and what we don't want to communicate. And to me, if you're given a stage four diagnosis, like, it doesn't serve us at all to be told you only have a month to live or whatever it is.

Yeah. And I. I had to talk to multiple people. And obviously you can tell when people have, like, a how can I and a possibility attitude, and they really enjoy their jobs. And then you're always going to have that. That person that has, like, the negative energy. But I. One would walk into you already. You always have anxiety and things. But I would walk into these appointments with, how do I want to feel? And when I could feel their energy, like, coming towards rejected, I would just cut it right off. But I also didn't. I didn't do it with, like, assertiveness or, like, rudeness. I'm like, hey, I just want you to know that my anxiety is really, really high right now, and you may have some negative news, but I need you to, like, soften it when you've given it to me, because after this conversation, I'm gonna go down a spiral. So I flat out told them, this is what's going to happen if you tell me this, rather than being assertive. And then, you know, you play the game of, like, stroking their ego as well, knowing that to be the authority, they want to be in control. And how can I make them still feel like, I respect your authority? But please, please, please be mindful of your words, because they have a lot of power.

Did you do the doomsday talk with friends or family? Like, did you ever say, like, oh, my gosh, I've got this. Did you ever believe you weren't going to make it?

I think there were moments. There was definitely moments where I was like, what if? What if? And I didn't go down that rabbit hole too much. But I also didn't surround myself with people who had that negative energy. So I noticed there was a few people in my life that were really codependent on me being the. The strong one and the rock, like, before this happened. And I just cut those people off so they would say, hey, do you want to, like, I want to come visit you. And I'm like, I don't have the energy today. So I held really, really good boundaries with those people because I could just feel what they projected. And then I would watch other people, like, have, like, this victim mentality about my circumstance in their life.

And I'm like, yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah, like, oh, my gosh, my friend. Or my. Yeah, it's like they're taking on that whole part. Wow, that's wild. Yeah.

So I didn't. I didn't really care at the time. Like, that whole fear of judgment and what other people think, that went right out the window when I was in survival state.

That's incredible.

So you.

You healed. It reversed.

Do you.

And do you give credit to the Western medicine? Do you give credit to your following your feelings? Like, what. When you look back now and you say, what healed me? What do you think it was?

So I also noticed a huge difference in, like, the functional medicine world. Like, I used to go for IVs, like, vitamin C and all the things, and even that energy was different. So I feel like I felt like there was possibility in there. And I just became obsessed with people who had hopeful energy. So people and scientists who had possibility energy. And when there were people in the alternative space or the holistic space that had, like, a negative energy around Western medicine, I would not listen to those people. Yeah, so it was.

You already made your decision. You were doing what you were doing. You didn't need to hear that.

100. And I'm like, this, to me, is about the Energy, like, what is your message? What's your mission? Another thing that I did was once I surrendered to, okay, Western medicine, and I had to do this multiple times in my journey. I1 had to deeply trust my body. And so I really started having conversations with my physical body. And I remember watching chemo literally dripping into my body. And I would visualize, like, putting out, like, healing, love, brilliant little bag. And I'm like, I may not, like, totally love what's happening now or, like, want this to happen to me, but I am going. I'm like, we'll close my eyes. And I'm like, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And just watching that, like, putting that energy into my body.

Well, there's science behind placebo and nocebo, so. So whether you believe something is healing you or hurting you is going to come to fruition. So I agree with that. Like, if you are choosing whatever you're choosing, whether it's western or allopathic, like, whatever you're choosing, if you're believing it's going to harm you, it's going to harm you. If you're believing it's going to heal you, it's going to heal you. I think that's. And, and when people want to say, well, I did this, but it didn't work, I would be curious, like, what their belief around what they were doing was just like the argument about structured water. I mean, all that is is basically putting energy into something. So, yeah, you. And we're made up of water. So, like, I believe that no matter what somebody chooses, it's a personal journey and it's what you believe around it. And you really did prove that. Were your doctors shocked that it. That you healed yourself?

It's funny because, like, my first response is like, I don't know, because I know I did not give them my power. So I utilize them as needed. And I said, thank you, but I didn't get that close to care what they thought.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Were you, were you surprised when it went away?

So here's what I tell people when they asked me this question, because I would say now, today I'm healthier than I've ever been. Now I get to enjoy the transition of midlife. All that fun stuff that comes up and out. But I feel healthier now than I ever have in my entire life.

Wow.

And my philosophy was at first I was running away to get out of like a clue crisis state. Right. And I watch and observe people who have been diagnosed with things post and I. I'm Just always curious, like, how people approach things. I don't think there's one right way, and it doesn't mean do it my way and have my mindset and everything's going to be fine. Because I think there's such personal journeys that we go through. But I remember having this feeling of like, I'm running away from cancer. Like, when I went. Got into remission, and then the 10 months after when they're like, hey, 10 critical months, I'm running away from it. And then I had to change mindset to, I don't want to run away from disease, from a place of fear. How good can I feel? And I switched it, and that's where I'm at now, where I'm like, how good? And that's why I love watching you, Natalie, because it's like, redefine aging. Like, how do you want to feel? Don't wait for shit to hit the fan. Don't wait for a diagnosis or crisis. Be like, this isn't normal. Even though all of my friends feel the exact same way, this is not normal. And it's interesting to watch now as I'm entering midlife and I watch all of my friends have these symptoms and, you know, all the things that are happening. I'm like, that's not normal. But it's normal culturally, but it's not normal for your body to feel this way. But they've accepted it as normal. And I am just so grateful that maybe I don't want to say I had that crisis experience because I don't want people to have a crisis experience, but because I switched my mindset and I'm now watching how I'm not running away from disease or eating from a place of fear or trying to, like, reverse anything. I'm like, how good can I feel? And the. The fork in the road is starting to, like, pivot where I have. I'm like, you guys, if you don't get your together, it's. You're going to go downhill real quick. And I'm over here going, you can have more energy. You can feel more vibrant and alive. But it's not just what you put into your body. It's like, do you love. How do your quality of your relationships, how do you feel about the work that you do? Just do things bring you joy? Do they suck the life out of you?

Yeah.

Are you taking on other people's stuff? So there's so much more than just working out and abs and what you put in your mouth.

So where should people start? Because There's a lot of people that. Where were you? They are where you were before the diagnosis. Right? They're just, they're getting by. They're checking things off. They're in hustle mode. They're. They're doing, they haven't had this interruption yet, but they're listening to you, going, okay, there's something to this. Where should they start?

Yeah, I love, I tell people all the time, just write your wouldn't it be nice list. Like, I hear from women all the time, I don't know what I want. And I'm like, that statement means it's a closed statement. Like, think about the energy behind that. I don't know what I want. Well, how much time have you actually spent thinking about what you want? And not much. Right? I even had somebody in my own inner circle do that. And I was like, B.S. this is like, you hear me talk about this every day. And she's like, you're right. I don't actually want to sit down to figure that out because then I know I'm going to have to go after it and that's emotionally uncomfortable. So I tell people, pen and paper. Paper. I don't care if you burn the paper after you want anyone to see it. Put a little notes in your, in your phone. Wouldn't it be nice if. And just start writing out things that you desire. Simple, tiny, tiny, tiny things. And then ask yourself, what's the feeling that I desire? And pay attention to your daily actions. Like, even how you structure your work day. Like, is that in alignment with how you want to feel? No. Then put in a lunch and go for a walk during your lunch. Drink and eat and sleep. Stop pretending that you don't have control over these aspects of your life. Because if you feel that way, you're giving your power away. And so you can.

All day you're saying, I'm too busy, I don't have time, I can't. I don't have this. Or so and so this, then that's you're. It's exactly what you're saying.

And it sounds ridiculous, but I tell people, like, whatever's on your desire list, just start putting things on your calendar first, blocking out time. I don't care if you bypass it. You don't do the thing, but start. Like, I am worthy of creating space for myself. Just tiny bits at a time.

Yeah. Yeah. So good. You talk a lot about self care and prioritizing it. And I think so many times, especially as a midlife woman, being me, being 52. And knowing the generation that we grew up, and I grew up in the 70s, and self care was like, who has time for that? Like, and I definitely made it a priority, but I know women battle this idea of, it's selfish. I don't have time. Yeah, help us redefine that. How? Why is this important? And how do they develop this and start being okay with it?

Yeah. So I see the. When I hear self care, I think of things that cost money, like pedicures, like getting your hair done. Self care to me is boundaries. Self care to me is not abandoning human basic needs. Like, I. There's a window behind me and I always think, my garden. Like, does your garden get more water and nutrients than you do? Like, do you go out and actually water your plants, but you don't even drink a glass of water? Like, just being mindful of the basics. So redefine what self care is. What. What's the feeling that you desire? I'm all about feelings, and I'm not saying feel. If I want to feel alive and energized all the time, well, I have to sit in front of my computer and do some tasks that might not give me energy, but I can play this game with, like, what does feel energizing? How can I put that on my calendar? Now? I tell people, great, now you know what you want to do. You're like this person. I love spending time with them. So I'm going to block out some time on Saturday. I'm going to go hiking with them. We're going to go out for lunch. Whatever it is you go do the thing. You're like, oh, my God, I feel alive and energized. But what happens on Tuesday when you're like, I booked that massage or I booked that thing and you know you want to do it, or you're like, I just booked a day off. And somebody texts you and they're like, can you talk? And you're like, oh, my gosh, I can, because I'm not busy. Right. That is the moment. I'm like, that is true self care. Where you're like, I don't have the capacity.

You say, yeah, that's so good.

You don't say, I'm busy. Oh, my gosh. But watch yourself. When you're like, well, technically I can, but I don't want to because I created space for this. You just simply go, I don't have the capacity. And I watched and observe and watch what comes up because it's probably going to feel guilt. You're Going to feel guilt. You're going to feel all the things, but you have to feel those feelings. I remember when I started implementing these boundaries for self care. I'm using air quotes for self care.

Yeah.

I literally would put things on my calendar. I'm like, okay, I'm going to take the day off. I'm going to do the thing. And I had one person in my life at the time. This was forever ago, and it was inevitable. Talk about energy, because I'm all about the universe always challenging you. And the second I would create the space, she would text or call me with like something 91 1. And I was always that person. Like, I get like a little hit helping people. Right. So I'm like, the dopamine hit. Hold the boundary. I have to hold the boundary. And it was so uncomfortable for me to break that habit and that like, barrier that pat. But once I did, I was like, now I can feel the way I want to feel. And you teach people how to treat you.

So I know you talk about steps to manage energy. I'm assuming that boundaries is one of them.

Yeah, but you don't realize you need boundaries until, like, you're in it. People are like, I'm really good with boundaries. And then I take them through this process, get clear what's on your wouldn't it be nice list. Start to create space for that on the calendar. Put it on the calendar first. And then once you start implementing, watch what gets done and what doesn't get done and why it doesn't get done. So people will always say they're better at something when than what they actually are. It's like, oh, yeah, I go to the gym all the time. Or yeah, I eat, whatever. Then you start tracking and you're like, oh, wow, like, what's in my head versus reality is very, very different. I also see like, you know, when people are out there in the world and they perceive to be super successful, they're like. And the ones that are willing to be open and vulnerable with me, they're like, heather, I have my together. I got money in the bank. I'm like, you know, getting all the awards, success. Got it. Check, check, check, check, check. I do not feel successful on the inside. And when you were like on the top of your game and every, like, everyone comes to you and you feel like you're failing internally or in a relationship. You feel like out of control control. And so I tell people, you know, we don't have to be addicted to drugs or alcohol. There are other addictions that we have. And it can be people pleasing. It can be like my drug of choice will be sleep. I will want to like run and hide in my room. Just watching and observing your patterns. But the mastering this whole process of like I call it energetic time management. Managing your energy, not your time is really learning to deepen your relationship with the feelings you want to run away from. Fear, guilt, resistance. And so I'm always like leaning into. I put that thing on my calendar and when I get close to it, it's not about the time I could doom scroll in my bed for an hour. But why can't I go for that 20 minute walk? Or why can't I do that thing that I know my soul is craving? And so I just tell people, lean in, we don't need to judge ourselves of like I did it again, you know, I didn't check everything off the list. It's like challenge yourself, let it be fun. Because with consistency, your brain is changing, your body is changing and you are becoming the type of person that will not abandon herself constantly. But it takes time.

I love this, I love the whole reframe on this because you know, I've definitely heard stories and journeys before of people that have overcome big things, but they typically have weighed so heavily on like the things that they did. Like I checklist this, I checklist that. Like I ate this, I did this, I did this, whatever this therapy. And when I really dig into what helped them overcome, what helped them achieve radical results, what helped them, it really is the stuff you're talking about here. It's just that they still are crediting these things. So what I love that you've done here, if you've really, you've kind of like unwrapped the science of it, you're like, no, I like just like you call your title as emotionally uncomfortable. Like you let yourself go there. Like wait a minute, these are not the popular things that people want to talk about. But this is actually what worked. It was these things and people brush them off as too simple to have worked. Or like this that doesn't make sense or that's too woo woo or too out there. But you're saying like I did the things, but I'm not giving all the credit to the things. The thing that what worked was this canvas I painted of this belief system and boundaries and my mindset and where I wanted to focus and what I wanted to believe and what I wanted to tell my subconscious.

Yeah. And it's interesting you say that because I become very Good friends with the science minded people. And I'm like, I trust you, Natalie. You're the researcher. Tell me what to do. I will do what you tell me to do. And I know that strategy and science matter, but it's the same as somebody who's like, I have the business plan, I doing the thing. And I'm like, it's 10% of the journey. It's how you lead your life with that strategy, with that plan, and you have to pivot and course correct. And to be honest, when. And I was never that person where I was like all in on that. I think it's because I was. I don't know, I'm more right brained. I don't know, I'm more empathetic and feely and trusting and all the things. But I'm like, we need both. We definitely need both. And it's not one over the other. But that to me is where balance comes in of what feels good. Because if you're doing something and you're like, not this, not this, your body's reacting, something's not working, every being is different. And I know you talk a lot about being the detective and that's a critical thinking skill and it's not black and white. And so there were many times where I'm like, this does not feel good. And I had to lean in and go, is this just resistance and I need to trust or is this not the right path for me? And that's not just my health. That could be a relationship, you know, my children and the educational system, like so many times.

Well, gosh, Heather, this was awesome. I love the perspective that you opened up today. This is so good. Where can people learn more? Where can they go to follow, find more and learn more about your method?

Yeah. So emotionally uncomfortable. The podcast. I'm there all the time. You can check out my website, Heather Chauvin. C-H-A-U-V-I-N.com and I have a whole bunch of, like, resources, the step by step of what we talked about today with PDFs and all of that on my website.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Heather. Thank you.

Thank you, Natalie.