The Stage 4 Cancer Truth Nobody's Talking About

I have one of my favorite guests back because we are talking about cancer, but not just cancer in the physical and what it does to our physical bodies, but also the chase for preventing it, fixing it, stopping it, reversing it. And what the lesson in all of that is and cancer as a possible teacher versus just this thing we hate and this thing we want to avoid and fight and kill and squash and get rid of and this thing that we're so scared of. I've got my friend Maria Kang back, and our story goes way back. I think we both started. My gosh, Maria, we both started in the fitness journey world around the same time. I think it was like 15 years ago. Is that when we first kind of crossed paths?

Yeah. That's when I saw you on your body bars with your abs on Facebook. Right.

I think we attracted to each other initially because of the abs and being a mom and being in the fitness and in this knowing skill, excuse environment. And you had this ad. I remember it went through Facebook. It was like this. She was the no excuse mom, and there she was with her abs and her three little kids, and she was making this statement that, like, women could have it all and there's just no excuses. And at the time, that messaging really resonated with me. And I remember becoming her friend from afar because I saw you got a lot of support online, but you also got these attacks online. And I remember I just felt like we were friends, but we didn't know it yet. As I was watching this unfolding at the time.

Oh, yeah.

Fast forward to now. This is the second time I've had Maria on Maria, as we have this discussion today, she literally is living with stage four cancer right now. Stage four colon cancer. We're going to talk about that. And in a really interesting twist of fate, she is thriving and has truly become her best self in this season, which is wild. And we're going to take you through that story. In fact, I just finished her book Sacred Becoming, which I'm gonna obviously link in the show notes. I think every woman should read this book. I think this is a very important book for us, especially in midlife, whether you're navigating cancer or not. This is an incredible book. And I'm gonna tell you why Maria did not reach out to me and say, hey, can you put me on your podcast about my book? That's not what happened at all. I've been following her journey and I said, I've gotta have you back on. Can we have another discussion? Because I've Watched your evolving here. So thank you so much for being here today.

I'm so thankful that you're having me back on your show. Such a wonderful conversation. The first foreign.

I'm gonna, of course, link our first conversation, but for people that it was a while ago that they heard it or they're listening to this first, I want to give a little bit of the backstory around the cancer itself, because you were, and you still are by many ways, when someone looks at you, this epitome of health. I mean, you had it all, and you were fit and strong and eating healthy and working out. You were doing all the things. Take us back to kind of what happened, how this diagnosis came about.

So I have always struggled, and a lot of women can resonate with me out there with gut issues. I've always, you know, I created a belly ball, literally filmed an infomercial about my belly ball to massage the belly, because I always struggled with constipation and bloating. And it started in my teens, and it just kept going because a lot. A lot of my stress lived there. And then eventually I started having blood in my stool, and then my digestion shifted, and I was very. I lacked energy. But I've always struggled with anemia, too. So it's really important that we stop normalizing a normal things. And we don't even know what a normal. And I know that's not even a word, but we don't, you know, abnormal things because it's so common in us. It's so common for us to not have enough blood in our body or not have enough energy or to take 10 minutes to have a bowel movement. And so I didn't take any of this seriously because I've been living with it for years. But it wasn't until a series of unfortunate but fortunate events that I found out that I had cancer. And to make a long story short, this is a funny story, but it's not. It was. It's in my book. And I was roller skating, and I broke my arm, and I had healthcare issues with, you know, with my plan. So I haven't been seeing the doctor, even though we already started the process of trying to figure out why my blood count is so low. And when we did a CT scan, they found the cancer. And at that time, it was stage three, eventually moving to stage four when there was a distant lymph node in my body. But I was so shocked, it destroyed my ego because I had done everything to prevent cancer. I was very healthy. I eat very well. I exercise four or five times a week. I teach breath work, I meditate daily. None of it made sense until I did the work, until I lived with it and integrated and understood how it happened, where I understood why it happened, and why I chose it. You have to, to a certain degree, take accountability and radical responsibility for everything in your life, including the things that you did not wish for.

I love what you said right there, and I'm going to go a lot deeper there with you about the how and the why and the shift. Before we go into what you learned and the how and the why and the shift. I want to sort of start where listeners are probably starting. And when they hear the word cancer, there's this weird thing that comes up about blame of self as far as the things that we've done or the things that we've eaten or the. Can you speak into that part first? And did you go through that stage initially?

The. Let's start with the type of personality that I have, which is very flowy. I have a very flowy personality. Like when I go on a vacation, it's like, whatever happens, it always ends up being a great vacation because I, you know, whatever happens, I just flow with it. Right. So when the cancer, I got the diagnosis, of course, it was very shocking and. But I couldn't. I couldn't blame anything. I wish I could. In fact, if there was something I could blame, it would have been easier, but there was nothing I could blame. They did the genetic test. It doesn't run in my family. You know, I don't have the gene for it. And there's nothing that I did that I can imagine contributed to it. And I mean, I've never. I don't take a lot of supplements. I've never been big on medication, so I know there's not nothing ingestible that I consumed. So it was a big question mark as to why this happened. And if anything, something that I did deal with, which we'll talk about more deeply, is I understood energy more. I understood how. So remember, food is energy. You know, the liquid you drink is energy. But we don't really understand that the, the other components of energy in our life, including the people that we surround ourselves with, the projects that we. We commit to, the energetic boundaries around us that get betrayed or get, you know, stepped over constantly when it comes to the victimization, like the energy of victimization when you get cancer. I absolutely did feel that part, and. But I didn't know who to blame. That was the problem. The problem was I Couldn't blame something specific. And that's when I had to do the meditation and find out that invisible enemy that I have, not that I've been fighting with most of my life, that I had to uncover the initial.

Process that I see women and men go through when they are first given a diagnosis. Um, and I know this. Everyone's unique, and it varies, but I. I see this initial first part of the process where it's like this disbelief, like denial, like, this can't be. And then obviously, the blame, but then it's this I'm going to kill it mode. And whatever they choose, whether that's traditional chemo and radiation or surgery or where did you fall into that space? And what did you figure out during that time?

I was definitely. You know, you're so observant. It's good pattern recognition on your part. And it's true, like, as soon as you. After you go through stage one, you go into stage two, especially if you have the same personality, which is, I'm invincible. I can do all things. I've controlled most things in my life, and I will succeed at this. And so even the people who are most holistic in my life were very scared. And that's what's going to happen when you're in. Not just in cancer, but in any journey in your life, or any journey. Like, you think that you would never steal, for example. And then all of a sudden, your family's starving and you're like, am I going to steal now? You know, like, your ethics are on the line. And so, for me, I knew instinctively that I just never believed that anything external was going to help me in terms of synthetics, in terms of chemo, to be honest. And so I was very resistant because of the energy I felt, which was fear. The moment I got diagnosed, I was put on this. This. This cancer train. And I felt like I wasn't allowed to process what I was experiencing. I felt like the medical industry was saying, you're going to die. Don't you want to live for your kids? There's no such thing as miracles. You got to get your port in right away. We need to start chemo in two weeks. It's spreading right now. Like, literally that messaging came to me within weeks. And it was very hard, and I had to be very still and not get swept away with the weather of the medical industry, especially the word cancer, because cancer equals death to a lot of people. It's a very scary word. And as I walked this path, I understood that it is a word and it is a vibration, it's an energy. And I rebuke it. Like I'm going to stand strong until my knowing, which is, how do I feel? Well, technically I've had cancer for several years, you know, because cancer takes a long time to grow in your body. So I knew in my head, I now have cancer in my head. But technically I've had cancer for years.

Wow.

Well, does my body feel? My body feels fine. That means I have time to really see what is best for me. And so what I thought was best is I need to at least try these holistic protocols. And so I created this 12 week plan. Like all of these things I'm going to do, I'm going to juice every day, I'm going to take all of these supplements, I'm going to do a parasite cleanse, red light therapy, pmf, you know, IV therapy, increase my vitamin C, drink the soursop, eat the sea moss, take the B12 vitamins. You know, I did all of the things. And then after 12 weeks, if it did not shrink, I told myself that I would do six rounds of Folfox, which is a type of chemo. But it's not as intense as some people don't understand. There's many types of chemo for colon cancer. It's Fulfranox or folfox. And so I said I would do that if the tumor didn't shrink because the doctors kept telling me that they would not perform surgery unless the tumor shrunk. And I asked them, you know, well, what if it, you know, decreases naturally? And they were very, very stern on the fact that it doesn't decrease naturally and that I would have to go through this gold standard protocol which I felt was, didn't align with how I felt, not so much my beliefs. And I understand this more deeply now, it's really, it wasn't calling for, to me, it didn't feel right. And I, and I dig into whenever something doesn't feel right to me, me.

That's an important distinction. I'm glad you brought that up because I remember asking you before about people that choose one method or another and you had said, I hope I'm saying this right, but if I recall correctly, you had said it's what feels right to the individual choosing. Because like you said, with energy, if you believe something is curing you, helping you, that's the energy you want. If you believe it's hurting you, that's not the energy you want. So your words were, I'm hearing clearly that you, it was like it wasn't calling to you. It didn't feel right. So you knew that was not going to support your body by doing that.

Yes. And that's really important. As we walk through life, through any challenge in life, you have to know what your inner authority is saying to you, because you have to create your sovereignty. Most people, the way that they've been raised and the way the culture has designed us to be, is to seek outside ourselves, to know ourselves. Like you have to in order to be beautiful. Someone has to tell you you're beautiful. Or you have to be on the COVID of magazine, or someone needs to give you 10 likes on this picture. On. That's not true. That's not true. You can be beautiful without any validation outside yourself. And you can. And so when you're going through cancer, it's. They've taught you, especially in school, that you don't know anything. Authority knows everything, whether it's your politicians, whether it's, you know, the, the police officers, the doctors, the teachers, but you actually don't have much authority. And that's something I learned in this process, is that no inner authority. And I am going to sit on this throne of awareness that I know what is best for me. Nobody knows my body like I know my body. And that is something that all women need to do, is they need to connect to their bodies again because we have been disconnected for a very long time.

Did the tumor shrink during that time? And did you end up needing to do that type of chemo?

So the tumor did not shrink after 12 weeks? And it was so disappointing because I was just. I was hustling to heal. I talked. I talked about this. And I remember the moment when I felt I was misaligned. It was when I was like. My friend was visiting, he was helping with the kids. I was trying to get my IVs and trying to do all these things. And I was just tired. And then I realized, okay, I am the same energetic field that I was for so many years where I thought that I had to work to heal. I had to do all of these protocols in order to attain something. And what I've learned in the process is that healing and happiness and success is actually shouldn't be as hard as we make it. They've made it hard. Like I said, when you're seeking outside yourself to fulfill something within yourself, you're always going to be going in circles because what you're. What my body was calling me to do was to rest, was to. To go deeper within myself. But I wasn't allowing it. I was staying very busy, very distracted, very focused on healing, quote, unquote, right? And so I went to, like, four different surgeons, two different hospitals, to see if somebody would do the surgery because I did not want to do chemo. It was just. Wasn't something I truly, obviously wanted to do. And just so everybody out there knows, some people, like you said, some people do heal through chemo. I do know that it's long term. It's not healthy for the body, period. I don't care if you want to or you don't want to. The fact. These are the facts. It's not healthy for you. And so I ended up submitting to two rounds of chemo. But something miraculous happened. You know, in fact, my whole journey has been so miraculous. And this is why I'm so excited to talk to you, is because once we step into ourselves and our sovereignty and our inner trust and intuition, magic will start to happen. And so I submitted to two rounds of chemo. But before I did my first chemo session, I was very upset because my doctor did not send me any protocols. I didn't get any directions on prescriptions. I didn't know what to expect. I mean, this is not. This is a mistake on their part. But as I was sitting there and I was just so scared, I started to write down my gratitudes, which is important for everyone to always remember what you have versus what you don't or to be grateful. And so I wrote down people that were on my team, you know, including my doctors, my nurses, my friends. The most important thing I start to write because again, I'm writing down gratitude for healing. And that means everything. And everyone who was part of this journey, I had to give gratitude for including the very hard things, including losing my mom, losing my brother, losing my husband, being betrayed, you know, going through pain. It was. It was so hard to write down all of the things that really hurt me when saying thank you to them and when I said thank you to everything, because everything must be given proper gratitude in order to be. In order for you to have full appreciation for this moment right now. Because nothing, if anything changed, everything would have changed. And when I did that, something shifted in my body, and I felt it. And as I was meditating, probably days later, I got downloads. I got downloads that the tumor is shrinking. I got a download that, you know, the I would be. Get. I would get rescanned. And I was like, I don't want to get rescanned. You know, like, how am I going to get rescanned. I'm not supposed to for several months. And then I heard. And again, when you are still, and we hear this in ancient texts all the time, be still and know only when you block out all the noises. Because remember, there's noises that we hear every day, whether it's people around us or people who. In our past. And for a lot of us, it's our parents, our parents, voices, their tone lives within us. And so when I blocked out everyone's noise except for my own, it's me and God at this point, I can get very aligned. And I heard that you're going to go to the ER and you're going to get rescanned. So 10 days later, after I got that download, I was in the ER because I had an ostomy bag and my stoma had retracted. I had to go get seen. And they did the scan and my tumor miraculously. And I was. I was still tied up to my second chemo. I was. I had only really taken one at the time, and the tumor had shrunk by nearly half.

Wow.

And at that point, I said, okay, game on. Get this out of me. I'm not doing any more chemo. Like, you said it. You wanted it to shrink. It shrunk. Let's go. You know?

Yeah. So when you're. I don't know much about chemo, but when you and I understand that the dangers that you just shared was the goal of chemo to shrink it. Was that the whole goal? And did. Were they telling you, we want you to keep shrinking it with that, or were they on board with, let's do the surgery now and remove it?

So that's a very good question. My very first surgeon who. And again, I don't want to say this is important, but there is a distinction. He was a man, and he said to me a few things. He said, maria, you have to do the gold standard protocol chemo, radiation, then surgery. I said, well, how small does this tumor have to be? Because it's pretty small right now. It's pretty localized. And he said, just smaller. He never gave me like a centimeter or 2 centimeters. Then he said that even if they were totally, they were to totally obliterate it. And a lot of people, just so you know, who have been through cancer will know this. Even if the cancer is gone, they still want to do surgery because there could be, you know, cancer cells are still there. So even if there's nothing present there, they still want to do surgery, but there's never an Actual size that they gave me. And then this. The same surgeon told me, and I asked him again, well, what if it does shrink naturally? You know, what if I, you know, do. Because again, I'm very ignorant. I don't know what to do. And he said, no, there's no such thing as miracles, Maria. And I thought that was insane. That he said. And then he said to me, maria, if your kids are starving in the streets, because he. He's. She has such bad bedside manners. But he, you know, he. He really. He knows what to say. He said, do you want to live for your kids? And I'm like, duh, of course I would. And who. Who ever asks that to a mother? That's so weird to me. But then he said, if you got. If your kids are starving, do you just sit there and let them, like. Or do. Do you go out there and work for it? He said that to me. And I thought, that's a very fascinating metaphor, analogy that you gave me. But I understand what you're saying, which is what they've taught us in this society. And you know this very deeply. If you want something, you work for it. But what I've understood in this journey is that if you want something, you have to already know that you have that something. And it's actually not something you work for. It's something you remember. It's something that you realize. It's something that you uncover. It's actually not the same type of work that this society has taught us. First, you have to believe in yourself. Then you'll become successful. People think you have to work to become successful. No, you actually have to believe in your heart who you are, what gifts you have, and then you will become. But we have it the other way around.

You use a word just now that I want to call attention to. You didn't just say believe. You said you remember who you are. What does that mean?

So remembering. And this is so wonderful because I. It's so wonderful because I understand completely what remembering means. It means you were born into this world. You were born pure, perfect, without disease. And then the energy of the world tainted us to a certain degree, trained us right, made us, molded us to believe, whatever, even if it's not our own. So what we have to do is we have to stop doing things we don't want to do, believing things that don't make sense, and start remembering the purity of who we are. Because in that purity, we'll understand that we are a child of God, and God is divine. And if the Divine is us and is in us. That means that anything is possible and that everything that we manifest is ours. And it's only in that awareness and that accountability where we're going to truly design the life that we truly want. We hear manifestation all the time, like manifest this manifest. That problem is, is that people don't know how to properly manifest. Just like healing, you're not properly manifesting because you're being told what to manifest. That's where the problem lies. Until it comes from your heart and your soul, you're going to be redirected in ways that are not where you want to go. And so when, as I started to really understand who I was, I remembered that Maria, this doesn't feel good. That doesn't feel good. And as I started to release, my body started to flow better, started to know better. And because of that, my body started to heal. It started to listen, I started to feel in ways. And that's a big part. Feeling is healing. We hear this often, but when you start to feel again, you start to know your power. And a lot of people out there, men and women, have stopped listening to themselves. They've stopped, they. They don't even know their power, number one. But once you start to become in union with that, it's like game on in life. That's what happened to me.

So medically I know that society and doctors will look at cancer as cells that have gone out of control, cells that have. Have a mind of their own and are growing at a rate faster than they should. It's something that does not belong and they look at it as something that needs to be killed or cut out. When I listen to you and I've. And read your book and listen to other shares that you have shared, what comes up for me is that cancer is everywhere, not just in our body. Cancer is, by that definition, it's. Our whole world is filled with cancer. If you think like the negative personality, the distractions on social media, the, the media, everything, like literally anything and everything that distracts us away from who we are, which I think we're in a major crisis of distraction, just our society. If you think about when we were growing up versus kids now, like the amount of information, the access to things, the electronics, the social everything is designed to distract us from who we are. One of the things I've noticed about you is you maybe would not have described it exactly that way, but you started realizing how much you had to extract out of your life. Negative energy, negative distractions, all these things that, that you believed were kind of an. I'm not even sure if I'm using the right words, but almost like an analogy for what was going on in your body. Can you elaborate a little bit on that?

So I will tell you that cancer. Cancer is a word. Cancer is a word just. And if I. If we didn't go through Covid and the awakening that happened there with our authorities and like the medical system, I know for sure that it served me because I was like asking questions in ways that I never asked before. And it made me very strong in saying, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not getting the vaccine. And the reason why I'm saying this is because as I started to really know who my own voice was, this is important for everybody. You need to know your own voice. What I understood is that right now, even today, I am still just releasing and becoming. When I was little, I understood the energetic imbalance in my family's life. And I became over responsible without request. I'm not blaming my parents. I took on every child. Your children are very astute. They know how to behave, they know how to survive, and they know where they need to stand or where their energy, their nervous system needs to be in order to hold up the household. So everyone to a certain degree, and I don't like using the word trauma because it's overused, but it's imbalanced. And we will somehow create balance, right? If our mom's too masculine, we'll be more feminine. If our dad's too feminine, we'll become whatever it is. So anyways, I recently understood that in this process of cancer, the reason why I got cancer is because I did not know myself. I did not listen to my voice. I constantly betrayed myself. I overworked, I was running on empty. My life force was draining. And so much has happened literally just in the last 24 hours, just in like the last hour before I got on this podcast, because I realized that I was mother to so many people. When my mother passed away four years ago, I hung up my caregiving apron because I was her caretaker most of my life. Even as a child, I would take care of my mother. When you've become parentified as a child, it changes you and your growth stops at a certain level. And so I realized that in losing my mother, I started to release everything that felt like it was draining me, including my husband, who I love very much. It was very much a parent child relationship. And a lot of women right now, especially those who are in their masculine, are with Married to a child. They might. He might look like a man, he might have a beard, he might have a million dollars, but he. His energy is childlike, and that is not attractive. And that makes us imbalance because we have to somehow make up for it in our own energetic fields. And so recently I went to tai chi this morning, which is why I was a little late for this podcast. But I'm helping my dad to get more integrated with older people and getting him active because my mother's gone now. And then my friend who's supposed to. I said I couldn't go with her to this plant medicine ceremony that I wanted her to go to today. And she's like, I don't want to go by myself. And I thought, you know what? I'm done. And this happened just recently. I am done holding everybody's hand. I have raised everybody up to this point, whether it's my ex husband, my father, my friends. You must be your own person now, because I need to take care of myself. And that's where I am today. Like real time, present, moment. Maria. But prior to that, I was literally expelling everywhere because I have endless energy. We have endless energy. That's how divine we are. We don't even where it comes from. I was literally anemic. My physician didn't even know where I was getting all this. How I didn't even know I was anemic, like, so badly. It's because your mind is so powerful. Your soul is powerful. It will do all the things in anything. If everybody knew exactly who they were. And this goes back to the remembering. Do you need to have more experiences with men or experiences with business or whatever to know who you are? Let's think about this. You have accomplished and overcome 100% of the things in your life today. You are powerful. You succeed, you succeeded everything. So once you know that you have and don't compare yourself with anybody else. Just know how very difficult things in your life have been and you were able to accomplish it. Damn, you are a badass. You are a badass. And it's in time that you start to remember that it's not something you have to have more experiences with. You need to remember who you are.

Had you not had the cancer, would you have gotten to this place of knowing that?

No, Absolutely not. No. Because. And this is why this, in life, everything is here to serve you. And we've heard this phrase so much. And then I hate cliche phrases because there's really no embodiment behind it. But after you go through it. You are very embodied. And I know that when I started this journey, I thought, okay, here we are again. I know who I am. I'm a strong woman. And everyone tells me I'm strong. I guess it's time to be strong kind of deal. But I know that this is here for me, right? It's not happening to me. It's happening for me. We hear this always and often. And so every single time I woke up in the morning and I was still alive, whether it's after surgery, after chemo, after. Like, betrayals, after. If I'm still here, there's a reason why I'm here, and I'm stronger than I was yesterday, right? And so, yes, it was such a. It was a. You. You could feel it. You could feel it when you were talking to me the first time. I don't know why this is happening, but I. I know this is happening for a reason. But here's the thing, Natalie, is that you weren't talking to me. You're talking to yourself. And that's something that everybody needs to know, is that every. Everything you. They see in you is them. That's why they resonate with you. They're not seeing you. They're seeing themselves. They're either seeing their strengths. They might see their weaknesses. They might see, you know, their monster in you. Because I've had monsters coming after me, too, you know, but it was. That's why I always understood that if, however, somebody took the. What's your excuse? Campaign was not me, it was their interpretation. And so when you said, there's a story here, I appreciate that strength because I heard it, and I can hear it because we're aligned, were resonating, and I understood that this isn't the end of the story. This is a part of the story, and that's what everyone needs to understand. Whatever they're undergoing in life, this is not the end. This is part of the story. Until we're dead. It's game on every single day. Like, you know, what is this teaching me? So it was really. It's been really powerful to. To experience this. Yes, it absolutely sucks. But at the same time, I'm also experiencing so much enlightenment, so much growth, so much joy. Like, I had never. I never understood. I. I ate, like. Like I told you last time, I had a fry, and I could taste everything in the fry. I don't. I. I can see the sun. The sun looks so pretty and bright. These are things that you don't receive unless you've seen the other side of it, which is possible. Darkness, you know, or not tasting life. So everything is on the other side of fear. You have no idea how beautiful, how delicious, how incredible life is until you're about to lose it.

Hey there. If you're finding value in this episode of Midlife Conversations, I would really appreciate it if you would hit that, like, button and subscribe. And when that little bell pops up, you want to hit that. That way you are notified of all new episodes so you don't miss a beat. Also, you subscribe. Subscribing and liking helps others find this content. And this allows me to keep growing, keep getting amazing new guests for you and to keep sharing. You have a letter you wrote in the book. And this goes back to when the no Excuse campaign was going on. And you had a lot of media coverage, a lot of attention, a lot of women that resonated, and you had a lot of women that really didn't resonate and thought this putting it on you like you're making others feel bad. And you wrote an interesting apology letter. Yeah, and the apology letter stood out to me because it was not apologizing for. For being in her truth. And it wasn't apologizing in a gaslighting way either. It wasn't saying, basically, this is your problem. She was basically calling attention to women to understand why this triggered them so much, why this was. And she was speaking into how you saw more possibility in these strangers than they were even in seeing in themselves. It was very powerful. And I feel like that same part of you comes forth here now, even in the darkest of dark things that you've been through with the cancer, which is wild to me, where you were able to not just shut out the noise of other people and their opinions around this, but of your own self doubt and speak into a higher possibility. I don't even know if you saw that connection, but that's been that to me, is who you've always been.

Yes. In fact, everything in my life, everything that I do, even surviving cancer. It's interesting the people closest to you are not surprised because it's all. It's. It's who I've always been. I've always been very audacious, been always very positive, taking responsibility and. And you kind of wonder, is this person real? How do you know you're real? It's through consistency. It's through being unwavering. It's through going through several storms, several hurricanes, tornadoes, and still staying a tree, staying rooted, which is, you know, like the COVID of the book, which is like the COVID of the book, you know, it's. It's very rooted. Yeah. And so when you start to. This is the beauty of life, is that when you experience things in relationships and things that happen to you, like, it makes you know and remember even strongly who you are, it's in those trials that you become. It's in the avoidance of it that you don't become, that you're scared. But the more you realize that you survive because you will survive. And if you know why. I know you will survive because if you didn't, you wouldn't know. You'd be dead. So everyone watching, listening right now has survived. And they. They are survivors and they are strong. You have to step into your fears. You have to go after. Go after whatever your heart is calling to you to do, because it's in the avoidance that you become smaller that you start to get constricted and contracted. That's not what we're here for. We're here to express. We're here to expand. We're here to become. We're here to. To glorify, to know who we are, to see our capabilities. Many people don't know their capabilities. They've been told what their capabilities are. That's where the mistake lies. They've been told that they can't heal their bodies. They can be. Even women have been told they can't give birth to their own babies when women have been doing it since the dawn of time. Like, we have to go into a hospital, get an epidural. We can't even deal with the pain anymore. You know, we have to even get it. No, we have. We have to remember who we are. We give birth to babies. We give birth to life. We are more powerful than we give ourselves credit for because we have been taught that we. We can't. When. If you go deep, deep, deep into our knowing, we already know we can and we have, and we are strong. And it's that remembering again that we must come back to.

What's your truth now about the cancer industry? Not the cancer that we are. Women are getting or people are getting, but the industry as a whole. After seeing what you've seen.

Okay, so I have. I always have to be very careful with this because there's so many people who are dealing with cancer. And I'm going to tell you right now that it's one of the most shameful experiences that you go through. It's most shameful. Most lonely people think that it's such a supportive experience, but it's actually not. Because if you don't go in the direction they want you to go, they meaning the medical industry, your family, your friends, they're going to get very mad. And then you start to understand, oh crap, this is why I have cancer. Because I cannot be myself. I know now that love is conditional. It's conditional and it's controlling. Like if you love me, if you love your kids, just like if you love your grandparents, you're going to get the COVID shot. If you love your kids, you're going to do chemo. As if chemo is the cure when we already know it doesn't cure cancer. Right? It's so I will tell you, there's so many things that I'm so aware of right now, but I will say that it is a business. Cancer is a business. Cancer is thousand percent of business. We can heal ourselves. We do need to co create with the honest people in the business. Like I love my surgeon. She saved my life. We saved my life. She agreed. She didn't agree at first. It's a partnership. You have to partner with people that you trust. And at the end of the day, I ended up having an all female team in a city an hour away from me. And so cancer is what I believe. It's a word and it's absolutely an energy. Because everything in this world is energy. Like go back to quantum physics, the very basics of life, looking at an atom that creates all forms, you know, whether it's this microphone or this book, it's all created by Energy. And it's 99,9999% energy, right? And so when the problem with cancer is, and you have to be very strong, is that people, number one, think that it's going to kill you, people think that chemo is going to save you, people think that you're supposed to get bald and all of these things. And so you're. This is why I understood too, is that so much of life is a performance. Like all of a sudden I'm strong, but now I have to pretend I'm weak because everyone assumes that I'm supposed to be weak. So now I'm like, okay, so I need to act a certain way because now I have cancer, now I get treated a different way because I have cancer, you know, good or bad. And so I had to really not hang out on the Facebook communities where they were complaining or they were sad or they needed support because, you know, the cancer came back for the fourth time and they have to have surgery again. Like there's so much victimization. Like, it's like joining an AA group, you know, when addiction and anything like, honestly, the worst thing to do is to hang around other people who struggle with the same problem and like to loop in this problem. I'm not a looper, and I'm not somebody who likes to perform either. And so I had to be very authentic of where I was in my cancer journey. When I was down, I was down because it wasn't easy, but when I was up, I was dancing. And so it was really important for people to see a different face to cancer. If there's anything that I can say that I know that I represent, just like in motherhood those many years ago, is a different face, a different. Like a different possibility. Right? You can navigate this differently. But I will tell you that cancer, in its essence is an inflammation of the body. It is a blockage because it's a tumor. And it. And it spreads because it's a parasite, right? And it's energetic. And if you. If they tell you it's spreading, you think it's spreading. The moment you think something, you create something, because that's how life works. And that's why it's really important to know who you are, to control your thoughts and to meditate. I say this all the time, because if you don't control your thoughts, anybody can get into your head and tell you what's going to happen to your life and to your body. And so I meditated a lot, and I was very still, and I was very strong, and I knew that even when a doctor told me it is spreading, I already knew it wasn't. And that's the kind of authority that you need to have, not just with cancer, but within your life, because there's going to be pushback, especially if you want to do something different, especially if you're doing something different than your parents, which most people can't see or believe anything past their current reality because everything within their reality is supporting and enabling their current reality. So if you're unsuccessful or you're unhealthy, which a lot of women who follow your podcast is, you know, they. They want to just be more healthy. The reason why you are asking yourself to, you know, you want to do more is because you were in an environment growing up where it wasn't a priority, where it wasn't something that people did, and they're still not doing. So it's going to require a lot of strength to say, I don't. I'm going to go work out Instead of sleep in or eat this instead of that. So you have to be very, very strong in your spirituality and in your knowing and whenever you go through any challenge in life.

Wow, that was there a lot that I just took away from that. What I'm hearing from you is, number one, it's the importance of the quiet and shutting out the noise. You actually can listen to things in the stillness and so you know what you actually need and want. What I also heard really loud and clear was the idea of the people pleasing, which I think so many women struggle with. I mean, me included, a lot of us. It's just human nature, this, the idea of people pleasing. And when you mentioned that about the shame, that really resonated because you're right. That's exactly what happened during COVID That's exactly what happens in any topic when you go against the grain or you want to think for yourself and people will make you feel guilty or bad or whatever. So what I've heard from you is you had to do a lot of work there on being okay with, I'm not going to be in this people pleasing space. And what's interesting is it's common sense to most people. I know my listeners are evolved and it's common sense to them that we become the sum of who we surround ourselves with. That's why people are listening to the podcast or there. It's why they have the friends that they do or. I know you're committed to that. I'm committed to that in my life. Like, I am very aware of who's in my surrounding and I want to be around people that lift me up, that I can learn from, that I admire and, and I do like to have my head in the sand in some, some areas because my focus is how do I keep myself in a space where I energetically can take care of myself and raise up others. So I, I don't want to put myself in a situation around negativity. So it really resonated what you said there. And I, I hope listeners are picking this up that be aware of where you're griping or where you're joining in or where you're communicating. Like, and I had that experience, not the same as cancer, but just even when I had my disc replacement, I joined Facebook groups for like a minute and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, not the energy. I don't want to hear about people's failures and why they regret. Like, no, out, I'm done. And I want people to realize, unfortunately, we're in a World where people join those kind of groups to gripe and to complain. We don't have a lot of. Because people are out living their lives that are happy, so they're not in the group complaining.

Yeah, exactly. You always find what you're. You always find what you're looking for. This is really important for everyone to understand. You will always find what you're looking for until you realize that's not what I was looking for. I was looking for support. I was looking for, like, resonating with other people. But. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why, again, most people say go in a support group because that's. They're telling you what to look for. Like, look for people like you, whatever. You know, they have cancer. Go.

Yeah.

No, if it's not resonating, if it's. You're not relating, if you don't feel. You're not feeling it, like, leave it. A lot of people don't do that. They still stay in situations because you guys look alike, because you have. You're united by blood. You know, there's a past history and there's obvious signs that it's not connecting anymore. But yet you stay because you're. You don't want to hurt their feelings. You're people pleasing to a certain degree. And I realized this very recently. I talked about this on my Instagram, where I talked about having a loveless marriage. And I felt really bad saying that because I absolutely loved my husband. Then it just. There was a lot of unloving behaviors that happened, you know, And I talk about it in the book, and I realized when I wrote that that I. I felt bad for him. You know, I didn't want him to think that I meant that. Yeah. This is what a lot of women do, is that we are so empathetic. We know how our child feels or that person will feel. So we. We try to make them feel better because we feel bad. Like we're not discerning what our. What is our energy and what is their energy. So we know that the doctor wants us to do something. We don't want to do it. So who wins? If we don't know ourselves, we will always let the other person win because we think in allowing them, it's saving us from the shame that we feel or feeling bad because we know what good looks like. Because they've taught us that if you want to be a good girl, you listen. You do as you know. You don't cause trouble. Like, you want to make sure that you don't ruffle too many feathers, don't be too big, you know, but that's not healthy for us. And that's why a lot of women have autoimmune issues. A lot of them have a lot of health issues. A lot of them are in bad relationships because we've silenced our knowing. We don't know our voice. And it's time that we understand that what we think and feel actually really matters. Not just to us, to everyone around us. Once you start growing in your spirituality, in your physicality, in your goals, and you achieve, it actually transforms your entire world. It transforms your family, their families, your community. Like, you don't need to change anyone or help anyone. All you have to do is help and love yourself and loving yourself. That's how you change the world. Wow.

Where is your health and cancer status now?

So again, I'm so impressed with how God works, and God to me, being more female than male, you know, because we are creators, right? I went in for my ostomy reversal in April, and again, I had my tumor removal last December, and not recently, but December 2024. And then I had my ostomy reversal 2025. And I had underwent a lot of stress. And you saw it online, it's in my book. The amount of stress that I experience, experience immediately after coming out of surgery was astronomical. I honestly felt like the devil wanted to kill me because I went through so much betrayal. A slander campaign erupted online. They kicked my kid out of school. You know, I was dealing with issues with my ex husband. You know, I wasn't talking to my family. I mean, it was bad. I was. I. It was. What I understood was that the battle was not. And fighting for my life is fighting for a life that I actually wanted to live. Because the life that I had prior was not real. The people did not, not. I loved them, but they didn't. How could they love me? I didn't love myself. I allowed them to treat me certain ways that I no longer wanted them to treat me. And they weren't having it. They didn't like this new role that I was playing, right? They didn't like the new boundaries that I was setting. And. And so when I went in for my ostomy reversal, my surgeon told me that she had found a new polyp right where the last tumor sat. And I could feel it. I knew it. I felt it for months. I didn't know what it was. And she biopsied it, and it was cancer again. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, it was so just destroyed me in that moment, if you can imagine. I had 25 staples down my abdomen. They took out everything, you know, like my appendix, my cervix, my uterus, my, you know, my colon. And, and to go through all of this quote unquote work and get it again, it goes back to f chemo. Everything like cancer is energetic. And I absolutely know where it came from. I was still swimming in the same nasty toxic fishbowl that I've been swimming in for decades. And it was attacking me after they took out and cleansed me again, right? And so I was just like, what is going on? And in that moment, and I talk about the miraculous moment that you read in the book, I knew that I had some forgiving to do because again, everything's energetic and everything is all about emotions, right? And I had not let go, obviously of all of these people, you know, me, meaning that you know you and you know, when you succeed at something, you just want to tell all those naysayers and be like, f you, like, look at me now, like, you know, say la V kind of deal. That's exactly how I felt. And then I realized, oh, here comes the humility. Thank you, God. You know what I mean? You always tell me to just stand down, remember who you are, which is a big part of the journey, is to stay humble and to surrender. And I understood. I had to surrender. Surrender is the new strength. And so when I surrendered and I said, okay, what is this teaching me now? Okay, remember this? Everyone listening, whatever you go through, whether it's a red light that's taking too long or a cancer, what is this teaching me now? And wherever you ask, you shall receive. So if you want abundance, which wisdom and lessons is abundant, ask for it. What is this teaching me? And I knew that I had to release more. And I was like, okay, let's go. And I, I released. You know, I talk about the story specifically in the book, when I talked about healing these wounds with my ex husband, which I actually spoke with him yesterday, it was a very big conversation. And I have to tell you, it's so good, but it's ongoing, right? Because it's not a one time thing. Everyone thinks everything's like a one time miracle. No, it's several times. It's. It's a moving. It's. Your life is moving. And so my last scans have been clear. They don't, they can't find the polyp. They can find an 8 millimeter cyst in my odor ovary, but they can't find a 1 inch polyp that my doctor said that she saw. And I, and, but I understand. Why would you. I don't, I don't see cancer. I don't feel. I feel pain because I'm still dealing with a lot of spiritual processing and recovery from my reversal.

Yeah.

But I am claiming cancer free. And I know that I will die because we all will, but I will not die from cancer. I would die with cancer. And I, and I claim that a thousand percent. So. And it's in that claiming and in that knowing is that is when you start to actually be the director of your life.

That's incredible.

And of course I don't know what's going to happen. And they might be laughing at me at my deathbed if I do. But what I know, I don't know. And I don't care because I don't care to be shamed. I just know what I know right now. And, and that's important too. This is the humility. We only know what we know right now. Same thing with doctors. You, you only know what you know because you were taught it or what they've studied or whatever. But can we all agree that there's more to know?

Yes.

So let's just, let's just be open every day to being curious, being like a child. What more can we know about ourselves and about our lives?

When they classify different cancers, stages one, two, is that based on the size of something? Is that how they classify that? So like, they're saying like. Or is that how they come up with a stage four, stage five, whatever it is, tumor?

So that's a really great question. It's a great question because most people don't understand the state. I didn't understand the stages. I thought zero might be the highest. Right. In fact, I didn't even know there was a zero until Elle McPherson said she had stage zero breast cancer. I'm like, what is that? I still don't know what that is. I don't know what stage zero is. I think it's maybe possible stage, you know, but stage one is their cells. They find cells. Right. Stage two is tumor. Stage three is. So stage one is the cells. Stage two is the actual formation of a tumor. Stage three is maybe stage three is like the tumor and maybe the lymph nodes, like, it's starting to like come out. So it's really the, the, the spread of it that makes it more stageable. Right. So if it's more, if it's in terms of localization, so it's just a little cell here. You know, there's little cells. And then it grows. Now it's a tumor. And then it grows. Now it's into your. Your communication pathways, your lymph nodes. And then now stage four, it's metastasized further than its local city. So for me, I had stage four because the lymph node was very distant, and so it didn't go to my liver, which is where it would go next usually, but it was a distant lymph node, which made me stage four. And I remember when my doctor told me, he almost said it in a. It's so weird how they are they. And it's. I'm sure it was so fun to play with. You know what I mean? Like, as a patient, he's like, well, it looks like you're now stage four because this lymph node is very far and it's metastasized. You know, whatever. And I said, okay. Like, I. There's no. Like. Like when you, number one, give someone a diagnosis like cancer, it didn't feel very sensitive. And when they changed my stages, I didn't feel sensitive. But what I did feel was, are you going to make more money off of stage four? Right? Because here's the thing. Once you're stage four, you're. You're always stage four. Even if you go back to. Even though you get it cut out and it comes back again and they find cells like they did, I'm still stage four cancer. On. On paper, the way that they document and the way that they treat, to a certain degree, they treat you like you're always. You never get to graduate from a different stage. You're always going to be that stage regardless. The only way you graduate is when you graduate up. You can never graduate down.

It's interesting as you'll hear these terms, you'll hear those stages, then you'll hear remission, which doesn't even mean gone. So it. That is wild because to me, you're cancer free. If it's removed, it's gone. It's not there. It's not in any of your field. So to me, why is that not cancer free? That, to me is cancer free.

So this is exactly. And that's again, when I got everything taken out of me, they took everything within inches. Like, they took anything that. Not even if it didn't even touch the cancer, if it was within six inches of it, they took it out when I did. That's what they. So that's what they mean when they say it's negative margins. So I thought I was cancer free in January. And so when it came back, it's like, here we go again. But what I understand is that again if you don't understand how the cancer came, it'll come again. There's, there's a. There, there you are a fish, you're living in a fishbowl. The what's the water? Once you start breathing the water again, unless you understand what, where it's coming from, it'll, it doesn't matter if you're drinking really bad water, for example. And I do believe obviously there's the bad things in our water, our food supply, all the things. But let's just use water as an example. You start drinking the same water you've been drinking before cancer, you're going to get cancer again. And so but for me, and what I know about cancer is that it wasn't just the water because again I drink filtered alkaline water. And it wasn't the food because I eat organic kind of deal and I don't eat a lot of meats. It was the energy that was building in my body Every single time I was attacked, every single time I was betraying myself, every single time I said yes when I meant no, when I wasn't resting, when I wanted, when I was told that you have to work. Like every single time I betrayed my intuition was when the energy came back in and was killing me again because I wasn't doing what I was again designed to do in life. We are here for a reason. And when you're not fulfilling that purpose, you will be reminded of that. Because your body wasn't built for this lame things that we're doing. Your body wasn't built to just work a 9 to 5, to be in a loveless marriage, to exist, perform, to buy gifts for everyone and nobody bought gifts for you kind of deal. This is not what life is, but this is what you've been told and it doesn't feel good and you're going to deplete and decline and you're going to get destroyed in this environment because it's not the environment that you're, it's, you're not being who you're supposed to become because this is not the right environment.

Actually, you know, sometimes you'll see somebody's cancer returning or progressing in a bad way because they, because they made choices to not do the traditional chemo and radiation and buy into the, the whole unique, that system and you'll see a divide of two people. You'll see people that are rooting for them and going, this is, you know, this is you. We want to support you however you can. And then you'll see people almost waiting for that not to work, to say, I told you or this is. If you had only done this. And this is an important awareness because I want listeners to understand what are their intentions? Not you, Maria, but like a listener that has maybe been that person that said that to somebody. Like, what's the intention? Because if the intention is for the person to heal, get better, thrive, be their authentic self, that's not a supportive comment. It's not a supportive comment. What do you want those people to know? Because I know you have very much experienced both sides of this. People that are on your team or who are rooting, that are lifting you up, that are in the right energy. And then you have the, the naysayers, like, waiting for something to go wrong, to say, I told you that.

So. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I, I still have those people very much present in my life, you know, and it's, it's. It's the hardest dissonance. When you love someone or, you know, they love you, but they also want you to fail. And failure, Failure for me meant death. So it doesn't make any sense why you can't get your shit, sorry, I'm cussing shit together, so you can support me and, and allow me without telling me what to do again. Love equaling control. Like, if you love someone, and here's the thing, whether it's cancer, whether it's weight loss, whether it's success in any way, whether it's marriage, however you do something, if it's not in the processing that they've been taught and they believe in. Our ego is so strong, it wants to protect itself sometimes more than listening to love and truth. Like they would, they would. They'll just go like this. They don't want. They don't want to hear anything, any other possibility. And I will tell you from someone who experienced people who loved her, but secretly felt like they wanted her to die because she wasn't listening to them. And in that dissonance, they're thinking, she doesn't listen, she doesn't love me, or she's just a bad person, she doesn't care about her kids. Like, all of the, all the excuses that they make, just like, what's your excuse? Well, she must be a bad mom, blah, blah, blah, you know, because those are the stories that keep our story alive. And that's unfortunate, but what I've Learned at the end of the day. And this is for everybody. Absolutely. People are unconscious, which most people are. There's only a matter of time where they're going to project their insecurities onto you. And it's really important again for you to love them but not allow them. You need to know who you are, stand rooted in your knowing because only you know the path that's right for you, whatever that path is in your life. And all they have to do is say, I love you. Whatever decision you make, I support you. How very difficult is that? When we've been conditioned, and this is why we give a lot of people grace. We've been conditioned by fear, shame and guilt, all of these emotions that run our life. They don't know what expansion feels like, what it means to grow. If you, if me living right now having not died from stage 4 cancer is mind boggling for a lot of people. There are, they're, they're have. I'm having a hard time integrating, they're absolutely having a hard time integrating this, including the doctors that said there's no such thing as miracles because I'm challenging their belief system. And this is what we are here to do is we're here to break down belief systems because someone fed you a belief that is untrue. And it's like the four minute mile again. Is it true? It's true until it's true. Until it's not true. It can't be possible until it becomes possible. Right. And so it's really important that as you love anyone, especially your child, which is very challenging because you are me, I created you and I can uncreate you. You know, we say this, that's untrue. They're sovereign. You know, they're going to, they're going to be better than you, they're going to have more courage than you. Let them be, let them become, let them learn the lesson they were brought here to do. Because in life, and I struggled this, with this since I was little, I've always been very spiritual. I always wondered what are we here for? Are we here just to get married? And I don't even know if I want to be married because if a lot of people are choosing not to, because look at marriages, they don't look that great. Most people have to, most people have to sacrifice part of themselves in order to sustain the marriage. And it's, it's not something that you wish for. So you're, I'm thinking, I don't really like the idea of being married. In fact, I hope my someone close to me said that they wish they died young if they didn't like their husband, because that is not especially religiously. That's not something that is allowed, you know. And so I thought, okay, so there's nine to five, there's retirement, then you die and then you go to heaven. Like that whole thing sequence didn't never made sense to me. And what I know now, standing on the other side of having, walking through the valley of death, is that that is actually untrue. That there is so much more to life. There's so much beauty and joy and abundance and possibilities and miracles. Once you start changing your belief system and questioning who fed you these beliefs, because you can be happier, you can be healthier, you can be successful, you can heal yourself, you can be in a body that serves you once you start believing in it. And so I'm really excited for the future of our world.

So.

Good.

If this is resonating with you listening, I highly recommend her book. It's called Sacred Becoming. And you can find it anywhere. I mean, I'm gonna, I'll link it up on the show notes too where you can find it. But it's. This is not just for someone going through cancer. This is honestly for any woman who, especially if you're falling into the people pleasing category or you feel like you've kind of gotten away from your truth or your authentic self. What I love about it, it's kind of like you're. You're sharing all the lessons and all the things and all the nuggets that we can relate to, which would normally take somebody going through exactly what you've gone through to get to. And I feel like I picked up so much goodness. I highlighted a lot in the book, like just from your word. So how Maria writes is really, really incredible. And I, I believe that women will see themselves in the storytelling and in the books in a lot of aspects. So I love this. And I, and I do see you as more of a spiritual teacher now and stepping into that. You know, I listen to a lot. I. I spent a lot of time learning and listening to audibles or even leaders that have since passed.

I'll.

I'll listen to their words. And a lot of the things that I saw in your book reminded me of a lot of that. So that was, it was pretty cool to see. So I see that and I'm. What are your plans?

What are. What.

What. Where do you see yourself? What do you want all the meaning behind this to. To mean for the world. What do you see for yourself?

I love this question. And I have to tell you, going back to our very first podcast together, and you said, you are healed. Like, you need to know the power of your voice, because that's something that your voice and your tone. Everyone has a tone, but there's a resonation. We all sing a song, and when we start to connect, we are all in this. We're all playing different instruments because we all look different, but we're all seeing the same vibrant song. And so when I felt that reflect back to me, it meant so much to me, and it means so much to me again today. Because one of the questions, and I love questioning life, is I used to ask myself, you know, who are you? Are you who you believe you are to be? Or are you what people tell you you are? Like, which one is it? Is it the mirror or is it you? Kind of deal? And. And of course, like, for. I always use the example, like, you think you're a good realtor, but if you're not selling houses, are you a good realtor? You know, you think you're a good podcaster, but if no one's listening, are you really good podcaster? Kind of deal. And what I've understood is that it's important to get aligned, not just a mind, body, and spirit. But recently I understood this even more, is that you have to embody. You have to embody your inside in order for your outside to be truly shining. And for me, all of this time, people would always say, marie, you're such a badass, or you're so strong, or all of these things. I. What's interesting is most people don't understand this, and you understand this and other women understand this listening right now, because you attract strong women. There is a part of us that doesn't feel strong, and there's a part of us that doesn't feel that we feel weak, that we don't feel good enough. And I felt that throughout the cancer journey, where it's like, damn, can I at least be weak now? Because I've been strong my whole life. And now I'm understanding that when you say your spiritual teacher. And I'm very humble. Humble in the sense that I know something, but I don't like to say it out loud because that's not being humble, but that's actually not being humble at all. That's being dumb and ignorant. Okay? And I'm saying this to all women because that's what we've been taught. Be humble. If you're pretty. Don't say you're pretty like you're pretty, Natalie. And you're like, no, you're pretty too. Like, you have to be kind. But actually, what I've done, especially with. What's your excuse? If someone says you, you look great, I'm like, hell, yeah, I look great, right? You know, I look great. And you look great, too. And if you want to, you can. You can do whatever you want, however you want your body to manifest. And it's that ownership. Woman need to step into their pride. And men. I talked to my ex husband yesterday, I said, men need to step into their humility, what that truly means. Because men. And as I was talking to him, because we've been going up and down in our relationship, and he said to me something powerful. He said, I need to teach our sons to how to be afraid. How to be afraid. And I'm like, whoa, that is so powerful, David. Because most fathers think I need to teach my sons to be strong. I need them, teach them, have courage. Who do you teach them without fear? How do you teach them without being afraid? How do you teach them without knowing? And I talked to my. My son last night, said, you have to know that you are afraid, that you can stand in this fear, knowing that it's going to process, that you can contain it until it processes through you. And so with woman, you know, there's this toxic masculinity of pride, right? They need to step in there more into their humility. Women have been taught to be small, to be too humble. Like, I'm not that much. I'm not that. Like, I'm actually stepping into. Thank you, Natalie. I am spiritual. I know what I know, and I will say what I know with full authority, with full passion, with full awareness. And I am not going to back down, because humility is not saying what you don't. What you know. It's not. It's actually knowing super power and not using it in ways to hurt others, to manipulate others, you know, like, that's humility when you're doing from a place of pure knowing and you're not trying to affect anyone else, but you're just existing, which is who I am. I know that thousand percent now that the reason why I've grown so much in my life, especially when I went through fame, right? Like, my ex husband told me this yesterday. He said, maria, when I watched you go through all of that, just for you to hold that capacity and not lose yourself, I was in awe. And I'm thinking Now that I'm 10 years away from it, I'm in awe, too. I had no idea how I was able to do that, and it's because I did not let it define me and stayed humble. Humble in a way of. I still knew I needed to learn more. I knew that that person wasn't talking to me, they were talking to themselves. I knew that I. Everyone says I was great, but I knew that I was still coming into myself and needed to work on this greatness. But now, in my new humility, I am great and I'm getting greater, and so is all the women out there. You're beautiful. You're becoming more beautiful.

So good. Thank you so much. Maria. I love everything that you're doing. I love your book. Again, for those of you listening, this resonating, sacred, becoming, grab it for you. Grab one for your friend. And if you love it and you're finding it helpful, please leave her a review. That's how others find the book as well. And I was one of the first to leave a review. I. I think I. I left it. As soon as I started reading it, I was like, this is so good. Thank you so much, Maria, for being here and everything you're doing in this world. Thank you.

Thank you.