Vaginal Rejuvenation in Midlife with Dr. Cheri Ong

Welcome to midlife conversations today. I can't wait for this interview. I've got Dr. Cherie Ong, who I. When I met her at the vision retreat. I was at a vision retreat almost a year ago.

Yeah, it was a year ago.

And I heard her speak. Speak into what she was creating and what she practices, and I could not wait to get her on the show. And we're finally here live in Scottsdale recording this. Thank you. So happy.

Right here.

We are talking about vaginas today. Yep, vaginas. We got a model here, but designer vaginas. And before you jump off, you're gonna want to hear this, especially if you're a midlife woman. We've got a lot of good things to talk about today, but I'm gonna start easing you in a little bit. First of all, thank you so much for being here and doing this with me.

Yes, welcome. I'm so, so glad you're here.

Okay, first question for you is how does a plastic surgeon trained integrative medicine doctor get into designer vaginas? Where does that even come from?

That's a really good question. So I spent my. You know, my. My background is in plastic surgery, and before that I did trauma surgery. So I did so much in terms of different types of surgeries, and I did breast cancer reconstruction for a long time. But what I found was there was this void in terms of aesthetic labiaplasties or vaginal surgeries. And it is one of the fastest growing surgical procedures. Women are asking for that 400 times increase in labioplasty surgeries in the last 10 years. So it's one of the highest growing procedures. So what I found was during my training, there were very few people that were really focusing on it. And so when there was a increase in the rise of these procedures, I found that what an opportunity to really get into the field of really being really, really good at this and being able to get all the knowledge and all the training in order to be able to focus on this, because it's so important for women, especially in that area.

So I want to go deeper here because I know it's one of the fastest growing things. I know you are known for this. This is your expertise, but so many women hadn't heard of this. They don't understand it. I certainly didn't understand it. I have a lot of questions about this. So let's back up a little bit, especially with midlife women, because that's pretty much who you're seeing, right? I would imagine.

Absolutely.

So we're talking like over 40 women, although there could be younger. What happens down there? Like, what happens after you have babies? As we go through menopause or changes. Like, what is happening? What is changing?

Just like everything in our bodies, our bodies change. And so whether it's childbirth or normal aging, so think about the changes. It happens in your skin. Your skin get looser. You have loss of collagen. Things get a little more saggy. So the same thing happens down there. In addition, when you're having childbirth, there's a little bit of mechanical trauma. Right. Things get a little bit looser. So what are the changes women are looking at? Wow. Things look different now. And now they're having kids. They've done having kids. We have women that are doing mommy makeovers. Right. They want to have the breasts and the tummy tucks. Now the thing is, what am I going to do? My vagina. I don't feel good because I can't do the things I want to do before. For example, exercising. The clothes that I wear are just uncomfortable. They don't look the same. I'm super uncomfortable having sex. So what happens is women are now more conscious about the area and they want to do something about it. So.

So it's so interesting because as I talk to my friends, we all kind of talk about this under that, you know? But it's one of those things that it seems like we're scared to talk to our doctors about it or we're embarrassed by it. And that's. This is the big reason I wanted to have you on.

Sure.

Because I think women are dealing with things like painful intercourse leakage. That's a big one. What you said about the leggings is so true. Like being uncomfortable when they're working out. I hear things about odor, so I just want to bring it all out. Because women aren't talking about this. And then they think the change of appearance and they say, well, I shouldn't care about that. Like, why should I care about that? But I think that can really interfere with their sex life and their intimacy and all of that.

Yeah. I think there's so much that you are discussing right now. Who do they go to? Because they're not. Obviously the husband is not the right person. And a lot of gynecologists have a lot of ideas in terms of some of the menopausal issues, some of that, and they do a really good job. But in terms of intimacy, there is really not many places they want to go where they can get information. So that's one of the things that I'm trying to create is how do you educate women and how to answer some of these questions? And to answer your question, there's some women that get on the phone with me and they've waited five, ten years because they don't know who to talk to. And the moment they call the phone, they don't even know what questions to ask. So it takes a lot of courage to actually pick up the phone and, and call someone, because I know it is not easy to do that. And when they come in to talk to me, I try to make it as comfortable as possible because it's so difficult. Like, what do I say? What do I say? What do I say? And it's just one of the things that I think a lot of communities, like what you're doing with the podcast and women getting together and discussing it and say it's okay to discuss it would be very important because now we can say now it's normal to talk about these things. Sure. Yeah.

Because I think what I want women to know too, is if you're self conscious about something on your body.

That.

Creates a whole different level of confidence issues, like with your partner, with yourself, just everywhere. And I feel like we don't have to just dismiss it and say, well, that's a private part. Nobody cares if it's affecting you. Especially the leakage thing. I don't know how women deal with that. I hear that all the time.

You want to hear a crazy story? So I had a woman, she's actually a professional woman. She was looking for a date, and every time she went on a date, she would carry a water bottle with her because she would leak all the time. She laughed, she would just spill the water just because she was so embarrassed. So this is a true functional problem that women are so embarrassed to talk about, and they will find ways to cover up. And how do you go on a date when you have to, you know, change a penny liner, stuff like that? So it is a true.

Yes. And I've had, I've had the sneeze thing. I'm just, I. I have the sneeze thing. Like, I'm. I'm gonna need to consider.

Even women have not had kids, they can have some leakage. Right. So if you have kids, it's even higher.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. So talk to me about the natural remedy that you'll see on Instagram or on TikTok about Kegel exercises. Is there really something to that? Is that a waste of time? Does that Help some works if you.

Do it just like any exercise. The problem with women is that A, they don't know how to do it correctly and B, they don't find a time today to do it.

I don't think I've ever done one. I don't even know how to do one. I just heard of it.

Yeah. So a lot of times people say, do the Kegel exercise. Am I, am I activating the right muscles in order to strengthen the pelvic muscles? There are a lot of opportunities now to do that. So there is a couple of options for women. Number one is obviously find a physical therapist that can actually help you, train you and do it the right way. Secondly, there are devices out there. One of the devices that have been used in Europe for more than 10 years for this called the V fit. And what it does is low level light therapy that has stimulate you insert it into your vagina and then it over time stimulates low light level therapy.

So you insert it, but do you do anything?

Or you just press a button and then it kind of activates that easy. And then the third one there is a product from Emsella, they call it the PP chair. It's a magnetic wave and you sit on it and it activates magnets in order to strengthen the pelvic floor. So there are options out there, you know, up, up the ladder in order to improve that. In our practice, I've used radiofrequency for a lot of these. And it works because it's radio frequency that stimulates collagen remodeling, strengthening of blood flow to the area, and it helps with that condition as well.

So what's the difference between, like you said, you use radio frequency. Is that a procedure that you would do a few times or do you have to jump right to surgery? Do you mix them together or how does, how does that work? Where do you even start?

So one of the big questions that women have is tightness. I, I want to be as tight as possible, right? So there's natural ways to do this and then there's a surgical way to do this. And I see this, maybe at least five patients in my office a week, and do I need surgery or do I need non surgical? And the way I look at it is there's a variety of questions I ask in terms of symptoms. So someone's very, very loose where they have air coming in and out of the vagina when they're having sex or they've issued the noise, the noise, the KE or whatever.

Oh, they they have, you know what I'm talking about. Women know this, they just don't. They're not talking about it. I'm talking about it.

Yeah. So air coming in and out or is there difficulty eliminating the poop?

Okay.

Because what happens if you have a, especially if you had larger babies or multiple babies, things are stretched out in there. So the, you know, from a medical standpoint, they, the rectum is kind of displaced forward. So some of these symptoms, I would go through a series of questions and if they have some of these questions and I do an exam and it's really loose, then they would need surgical.

Got it.

And usually what happens is it ties in with urine incontinence too. So when you have a vagina that's this big and things are either looser, things kind of move around the pelvis. And so that's when we do surgery. And, and if through those questionings that they're really not that bad, then we can try to do some of these non surgical procedures like radiofrequency. And you would need to do a series of them to stimulate regeneration, stimulate collagen. And what we know is radio frequency is very powerful because even if we put it on your skin, and there's some people that do it for tightening of like the belly and stuff, they get better in terms of their urine incontinence. So we know these technologies go really deep, deeper into the pelvis to stimulate contraction.

Okay. So when women and I share about different creams and things from gynecologists and that help tighten, like how much can those actually tighten versus coming in and doing something like this? And do you recommend using that together?

The creams really help with the lining and it helps with the moisture. So I look at it differently. One is the pelvic floor and the muscles and we. And one of the creams is more of the lining. As we get older and we have our hormones change, our lining gets thinner and thinner and we don't get as much lubrication. So the lining is actually reversing the moisture. And the, I would say the health of the vaginal lining, it works together very well because the radio frequency increases the blood flow. And then when you insert the cream, whether it's DHEA or vaginal estrogen or growth factors, then that gets absorbed and now everything's healthier.

Okay, that makes sense. Okay, my next question. And our camera guy here is going to. He's like, I didn't know I was coming in for this amazing interview. He's learning a Lot just like you all are learning. Right? Right. Okay, let's talk about pleasure for a minute. Because I think this is another thing that women aren't talking about, but guys talk about all the time. So let's talk about it. For women that changes. Also like women say that they're not.

Having pleasure sensation right here.

Yes. Or they're not feeling things. So what, what changes here and how can this help support that?

So if you want better sensation. And again, this is a question I get all the time, I practice, I break it down to different levels. Okay, so what is? What is? I'm not be able to have an orgasm as powerful as what I had before or I'm not able to get any orgasms at all. So I break it down to where is the problem? And it's either the brain. Yeah, you're not getting aroused sexually from.

The brain, but also you're self conscious about how things are, could be affecting that. Right.

So I mean emotional and mental is just one, I would say at least 50%. So I look at the brain and I see is the problem. I'm not excited, I'm not getting aroused with whoever it is. Sure, if it's a guy then you may want to find a different guy.

Or but if it's your husband.

Hold on, don't give up yet. We're not telling you to get a divorce, but you would start with that. So we look at that and then I look at hormones. Right. So is your hormones optimized? Testosterone is a big one. If all those things are aligned because we look at the brain. Now I look at peptides then is it the problem of the vagina itself that my vagina is not able to respond? So that's when we talk about radio frequency, we talk about the O shot and things like that. Now we know that we can work on the end organ. When I mean an organ is like the vagina and the clitoris and get a response to that. So I break it down to three different levels.

Got it. So it's just like you would with fat loss. There's like all you to look at. Is it body, is it nutrition, is it working? Exactly all the different things. Okay, a bunch of questions. Now I have, what's the O shot? What does that mean? Does that stand for what I think it means?

Oshot is just a name, that's actually a registered trademark for a doctor. By name is Charles Reynolds. He invented the Oshot. So I had to give him credit for that. But what it really is is just injection of prp. Originally it was prp, which is platelet rich plasma, which is growth factors from your own platelets injected into certain areas to improve the sensitivity of the clitoris and the nerves. So that's originally what the.

Just like they would do for. If you have a facial with so prp, Platelet rich plasma, they take your own blood, they spin it down, they get the platelet, they use it with like tooth reconstruction. And with facials. Now they do this. Right? Isn't that the vampire facial? Yes. Okay. Yes, that's what I thought.

So PRP is basically taking the growth factors from your own platelets. And there has been a lot of advances in that because as we age, our growth factors are not going to be as robust and we have less growth factors. You know, you have been at 20, you have a lot more growth factors. So when I do the O shot, I've done this and I'm actually teaching this procedure. I use different products now. We can use prp, but I find over the years we need to use something that's more robust. So exosomes is something that I use now. It is more robust in terms of the growth factors and they don't need a blood draw. And I found results that are much, much better compared to prp because it can't be. We don't know how much growth factors you have in your blood.

It's so funny, I feel like I could be having this exact same conversation about somebody that does facial work. It's so funny. Okay, for my aud doesn't know what exosomes are. Can you explain what that is?

So exosomes are basically signaling molecules. So what it is, is growth factors that call your own stem cells to the area to stimulate regeneration. So your body normally has exosomes. So if you cut your knee, then what would happen is, oh my gosh, that's an injury. Let the cells reproduce. These growth factors, they're signaling molecules to call your stem cells to stimulate regeneration. So we can get signaling molecules that are higher, much, much higher level, which we get it from, you know, the lab where from C sections. So these growth factors, they're not cells, they're not stem cells, they're just proteins. Okay. And what happens is when you inject it into the area, it will wake up the stem cells that are already sleeping in your body and say, oh, wow, here, let us do some work.

Wow. Okay, more questions. I don't want to lose sight of these that you said. You brought up hormones and you said testosterone could also be affecting your Sex drive and your ability to orgasm and to have all that. I've also heard, is this true or not true that estrogen can create that too?

I think so. In the body, testosterone is converted estrogen. So testosterone is the driver, usually that sex drive and that increase in libido, that's a driver, that masculine energy. So that's testosterone. But estrogen is very, very important as well for women because estrogen is what the body uses to respond. So we need estrogen. So things happen in our bodies from a functional standpoint because we're losing estrogen. So things that change, the looseness, the dryness, everything is all result of estrogen.

So are you a fan of bioidentical hormones for this type of thing? Are you doing topical? What do you recommend?

I personally do not do hormone replacement. There are experts that are really dialed in because it's a science and art, but I would recommend them see someone to dial it in.

But you believe in them?

I believe in them because I feel that it can allow people to function in a much functional and optimal level. So I'm not super therapeutic, but they can feel better and function better.

Now, you mentioned peptides, and I have so many questions here, because peptides seem to be all the rage just for health in general. And one of the things you do is also you help people heal from surgery in natural ways. You help them recover faster and more naturally. And, you know, I have a personal journey around. I've had a lot of surgeries, I had a lot of injuries. And because of all of those injuries and surgeries, I believe that's what wrecked my gut health. I believe that's what opened me up to parasites. So I'm so curious about all these natural things. And I want to start with a question about peptides. Like, what are those for? Because it's confusing. There's so many of them. We hear BPC157. And what do we actually need to know about peptides? And where should we be using them?

Absolutely. So peptides, in essence is just protein molecules. Most people know peptides. The simplest one that most people will know is insulin. So insulin is a peptide. It's a series of proteins and. And it tells the body to do something. So insulin says when your body has high sugar, insulin's produced to drive the sugar into the cells. So in our bodies, a thousand. We can't even count the number of peptides that we have. Thousands and thousands of peptides naturally happens. Naturally happens. So peptides, what the peptide supplementation is. We are trying to create a molecule of a protein that tells the body to do what it is naturally. So what I've been, you know, using peptides for four to five years now in my practice, and what I find is there's two things I want to tell everyone. First of all, everybody's still learning about peptides, but there's this huge rush of everybody wants to use peptides. And my key is really understanding what the peptides do because it's really important, because it allows the cell to do something very specific when you turn it off. And when you turn it off. Education is super important because like you said, BP157 is a great peptide and is naturally produced in the gut. Helps with recovery, helps with healing, helps optimize the receptors for healing and hormone production. So I love it, it's a great peptide. But what are the risks and how long do you put it on, how long do you use it for, et cetera? Super important. So I love peptides. I think it's a very powerful way to get things changed and results very quickly. But the key is how much to use and how long to use is going to be important.

So basically, don't just order it online from some shady site and think you know what you're doing there.

The problem is the protein molecule. So if they ship it, they ship it and it's out in your house in the sun, it denatures the protein. So if you inject something, who knows what protein you're injecting.

And I'm guilty of that, by the way. I just want to share. When I first heard about all that, I was like, oh, we need to order BPC157. I don't know what the heck I'm doing. And then it goes bad and I don't know what the heck I did with it. And then I ended up taking an oral version. I don't even know. But so you work with a doctor, don't just try to do it on your own. So is there like one main peptide that you use for a lot of. Is this the one or is there.

So for surgical Recovery, I use three different peptides mainly. So I use BPC157 is one of them. Then thymosin beta 4 is really helpful to. In my surgeries, we want the things to heal faster, the types of surgeries that I do. So TB4, thymosine beta 4 has been studied to actually increase the healing in the epithelium and the mucosal membranes. So that's what I use. And then the third one is a copper peptide CoHKCU. So we use that, we compound it in the cream and we use it to apply to surgical site. But they're.

So these are all cycled. These are not things that you just use forever. You're very strategic with how you're using them and when. So it's not just we go and order peptides and use them forever.

Correct.

Got it. Talk to me about the IBU machine because this is a rare machine that you've got that we saw. Damon John came and made a big talk about it and did it. What is this? As I'm here setting up, we had our friend walk in and say, when am I getting it done? Tell us what this is.

So just as any medical tool is a tool. So EBOO stands for extracorporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation. So extracorporeal means outside the body. Ozonation, oxygenation does it, it ozonates the blood and it oxygenates the blood. And this is one of the things just as a tool knowing how to use it, when to use it. But typically, in a nutshell, what it is, is one of the treatments that will allow us to improve our immune system. We get to modulate the immune system and a lot of people want longevity and anti aging. And the key to that is the key point in longevity is we want to improve oxygen utilization by the cells. So this modulates the immune system, pushes more oxygen utilization. And the great thing about IBU is that it can remove some of the inflammatory fluid, proteins, heavy metals, things like that. And in real time we see what's going on. So you basically have an IV in one arm and the other arm it goes through the machine. And we see in real time what's the color of your blood, how much oxidative stress you have, Is there anything that's coming out? Cholesterol, inflammatory proteins. And then it filters out the amount of what we call extracellular fluid. So the how much inflammation you have in your body. And then the body it filters goes through a filter and that blood is ozonated. And then once it enters into your body, it just transported into oxygen, which exactly what you.

It's like a filter. It's like a high tech filter.

Yeah. For layman. For layman. The easy way to think about it's like dialysis, but it's not really dialysis. I don't want to. People think it's like a dialysis machine, but it's the same type of concept. But it does it to Diffusion.

Okay, so my next question for you, because you do very advanced, very advanced medicine on what I love, like the natural stuff. But the next thing that always comes up, and I get this from people, because people are so trained to think just Western medicine, just what insurance covers. Can you help with that? Because I've always said I don't want insurance to dictate treatment for people because insurance is a business. It does not care about us.

It doesn't.

I also am very understanding of people that say this is all they know and they're scared and they're so used to just. I pay insurance, insurance pays. Can you help a little bit with that? And what do you want people to know?

So I've been in what I call traditional allopathic medicine for a long time. I started with being a general surgeon, plastic surgeon. So I understand that. I do believe there's a role for that. But I think what has happened now is we need to take charge of our own health. And that's so important because you got to make the right decision for yourself in terms of what makes sense. And I don't think going all the way to natural medicine is good, being able to make that distinction. So I think, number one, there's just so many opportunities and advances in medicine that we need, first of all, we need to be aware of. So I really feel like if you have an infection, like a really bad infection, you need to go to hospital and that needs to be taken care of. But there are so many things that we talked about today. Ozone Peptides recovery. I think the big thing is just the mindset of people. Number one, I'm in charge of my health. So let me decide what's good for me, but also let me be educated on it and not get a lot of the. Like you said, insurance company telling you a, you should do this or should not do this. I think things are changing.

Yes.

Like, and I'm a big advocate for that, for sure.

But I want people to know, like, no, insurance is probably not going to cover your designer vagina and it's not going to cover the EB machine and all. But this is one of those. What is the. You have to over start looking at your life and how you want to live and how you want to thrive.

Yes.

And if we don't take some advanced steps, some not everything, just start learning and educating and taking some advanced steps, then we don't get better. We don't improve with age. And we really do start relying on that. And that's when we start Having all the negative connotations around aging and it being so bad and falling apart.

Yes.

And some of what we're sharing today is, I believe, what levels up a lot of the people that we know.

Yes.

It's why they're, they're thriving.

Yeah. And seeking out information. There's so many opportunities like YouTube, everyone. Now there's just so much space in social media or YouTube to get so much information. But the key is to, you know, obviously navigate all that. Sometimes too much.

Can you give. This might be a weird question, but can you give us some general ideas of like, what is a not ideal way to heal from a surgery versus like the ideal way to heal from a surgery and where, where's like kind of an in between that people can do?

So in my approach to surgery, I see, first of all, surgery is a stressor. So the key is if your surgery is elective, really being able to plan around the surgery and you have the optimal time to do it is going to be important. So my approach to surgical recovery is this is the surgery that I need to do. Let's figure out when's the right time and let me prepare my body before and after and clearing up your schedule, for example, finding time for the kids, know, schooling, etc. And then my approach to that is what can I do to allow my body to heal the best way it can? Yes, obviously follow your doctor's instructions into what you need to do. But the key is the nutrition is going to be important. You get in lymphatic therapy to get the lymphatics going is going to be important. And then some kind of detox is going to be important before the surgery and then after the surgery, you know, the same things that, that pertain to that is let's try to control or improve all the variables we have. So let's look about pain and nausea and constipation and what are the things that we need to do. I have a whole basically programming guide for anybody who's interested. What to think about if I have surgery. What are the things I need to think about? But the key is how can I really get my body in a state to heal and give the best chance possible.

How dangerous and maybe you are a fan of them or not, how dangerous is it when people are just taking a lot of NSAIDs or painkillers to heal?

I think some people will just use that for pain control. Short term, I don't think it's a bad thing. But there are many things that we can actually do to reduce Pain rather than go with narcotics and NSAIDs, short term, I mean long term. NSAIDs, kidney, liver issues and then narcotics. There's potential for. Besides just constipation and things around obviously addiction down the road. So we want to be able to. Again, when you talk about natural stuff, there's tons of natural stuff you can do to reduce pain. And then one of the things I really love, and this is a tip for anyone having surgery, is there is a product called Exparel and it's a long acting liposomal marquene, which is a local anesthetic that your surgeon can inject in your site that lasts 72 hours. So I do that all my surgeries. Why not get the pain control for 72 hours?

For some reason, I think when I tore my bicep, they did that to me. I remember that. Felt nothing. And then all of a sudden I was like, okay, wait a minute. Now I feel everything.

Yes, yes.

Well, gosh, this has been fascinating. Okay, so listen. Now you know about designer vaginas. You know about. It doesn't actually look like this, but I like the model here.

Yes, she.

She is the. You're like the leading world expert with this. You are. People come from all over to get there. Anyways, you. We're gonna link up all of her information below if you want to have a consult about this. I think this is fascinating. Or you want to learn about any of the other stuff that she does. Like the EOO machine and some of the advanced. I call it biohacking. Is that even the right word for it?

I think that's a word that people.

I think Dave started that word, but he, he branded that and we know it. But for any of the advanced stuff, she's located in Scottsdale, Arizona. This has been so fascinating today. Thank you so much for doing this.

Thank you, thank you.