Why You Feel Like Roommates and How to Fix It

I know you love the health topics, but we're going to talk about one that is a little different today because this is important. Because we've talked a lot about stress and cortisol, and one of the things that drives stress and cortisol is being unhappy in our relationships or lack of relationships and feeling that strongly in midlife. I hear from women all the time that they just miss that spark. They feel like they're married to their friend now or to a roommate. And then I also hear women that have a big shift in midlife that are now finding themselves single. Maybe they are widowed, maybe they are divorced, but they are new again to the dating world. So today we're going to be talking about relationship spark and how we can actually crack the man code. And I'm not the one teaching this because I am not the expert on that, but I've got my friend Matt Boggs here who recently wrote a book, Cracking the Man Code, and I couldn't wait to have him on this show, mostly because Matt and I connected over the years first at his mom, Mary Morrissey's vision seminars years ago. And I have had Mary on the podcast, Matt, before. I've had your mom on. For those of you that don't remember, I'll link that episode below so you can hear that. But Matt grew up in a world of focusing on vision first. And he learned that if you focus on vision, you can bring pretty much everything to fruition. He can't help but to talk about that when you talk to Matt, like everything you talk with him about, he will go right to vision. So what I love about this, it's not just his expertise on cracking the man code and being a man himself who's happily married, who's helped countless women navigate this, but he speaks from a place of true vision and really being able to create life and possibility that you want. So thanks so much for being here today, Matt. I've got lots of questions.

Oh, I'm super excited to be with you, Natalie Jill.

Okay. The heck? How did you get into— did you ever think you're going to be into this relationship space? Like, where did that even come from?

So it's funny you bringing up my mom, because I grew up with a famous mom in personal development, and I was that— I was forced to go to all these seminars and sit in the back of the room and do all of the eye gazing processes and all of this stuff. And so one of the things I wanted most in my vision, as we're doing that visioning work, was I wanted to find the love of my life. I just, I'm a romantic at heart. I wanted to be a dad and a husband and have this great relationship. And as I was, you know, entering my mid-20s, late 20s and all of that, I would have crash and burn relationship one right after another. And I remember talking to my mom saying, you know, God, I was complaining about one of the girls I was dating. And she goes, you know, Matt, everywhere you go, there you are. Other words, you are like— I've noticed you talked about this person and that person. You are the common denominator in all of these. So why don't— there's a personal development event you could go to to help figure out why things are so off. And so I went to this week-long personal development seminar, and I— on day 4, they played a game called the Island Game that totally changed my life.

Okay.

And there were like 100 of us there, 50 men, 50 women. And so the facilitator made all the guys— were sitting in these chairs And we have clipboards and we got a piece of paper and a pen. And she goes, all right, here's how the island game works. Ladies, you're going to vote on every single one of these men. You're going to go down the line of chairs and vote on them. And here's the question. If they were the last man on the planet to choose from, would you want them stranded with you on a deserted island or not? So not based on your attraction. That's not what I'm talking about. It's just their beingness over these last 4 days. You've gotten to know them. Just vote yes or no. And the, the tension in the room just went like, oh yeah, right? So we, uh, the ladies start going down and they're looking at us and they're voting yes, no, yes, no. And the guys, our job was just tally. Yes.

And do they know you guys yet or they're just looking at you? Like, do they know?

4 days. We've been having meals together and doing exercises together and sharing and all of that stuff.

So they've gotten a vibe for you. It's not just the appearance.

Correct. They've gotten a vibe for us. And so at the— they finish voting, the facilitator goes, all right, guys, stand up and I want you to order yourself from the guy who has the most yes votes.

Okay.

All the way down to the most no votes. It was like, talk about being exposed, right? So we're like comparing numbers like we're Southwest Airlines and we're like, okay. So when we finally got all lined up, Natalie, I'm second to last.

Oh, wow.

With the most no votes. And what was so wild about this experience is if you had asked me before we lined up and before the voting had started where I would be, it would definitely not be second to last. Definitely not. The last guy was a total jerk, like, like loud and abrasive and like nobody liked that guy. I'm standing next to that guy thinking, how am I showing up this way? I was completely blind. To the way I was presenting and what was going on. And then I was so grateful. Ken Blanchard has this great quote that says, "Feedback is the breakfast of champions." None of us can see the picture when we're the one in the frame. And I was totally blind. The facilitator goes, "Is there any woman who would be brave enough to give feedback to these guys? Guys, is there any of you surprised by where you're standing?" And so I like sheepishly raised my hand. "Great. Okay, ladies, who wants to give Matt some feedback?" And all these hands shot up in the room. Room, and they began to tell me why they voted no on me. And it, it blew my mind because ultimately what they said was they couldn't connect to the real me.

Wow.

They felt like I wasn't authentic. They felt like I wasn't, like I had this looking good program, like I was trying to impress them. And as much as I, it was like nails on a chalkboard for me. I did not want to hear that, but deep down I knew it was the truth. And the irony was this. I so badly wanted connection. I so badly wanted acceptance that I was putting on what I thought they wanted, but it was coming across as ego and looking good and trying to impress instead of just being really me. And when I realized what was missing was I was so terrified, like there was a big part of me that didn't love myself, that was, that didn't feel like I was enough. That didn't feel like I measured up, that didn't feel worthy of love and all of that. And that was the main gap. And the irony is that when I began, I was like, so I went on this big journey of like, how do you learn how to solve that? How do you, how do you do this thing called love yourself? Everyone talks about it. How do you actually do that? It seemed like this huge mystery. And the cool part is there's really proven methodologies for doing that. When I began to apply those Everything shifted and my ability to connect shifted. My ability to be open shifted. My ability, uh, to create partnership and friendship went to a whole nother level. And it was scary as hell in a lot of times, but, um, the, probably the biggest transforming thing for my life I've ever done.

You know, it's when you look at anybody, male or female, who are in that ego state, like the, the glitz of like, like, look at me and all the bragging of what they've done and the accomplishments. And you could see it easily on social media, just like. The nice cars. And then what happens is they'll tend to get a lot of hate and people go, "Oh, they're just jealous." But I believe that people just cannot connect with people like that because it's so wild because the person doing that, they're doing it from an insecurity typically. They're doing it thinking they need to be enough, they need to be liked, they want to be respected. So, they put this front out there, but people see right through it and they get the opposite result because they think, We don't like you, right? Where when someone is just honest and open and shows who they really are, that's that true authentic piece that can't be faked. And people do gravitate towards that, and it's attractive. It reels people in. I see it all the time. We especially see that on social media.

100%. One of the greatest lenses we can look through that it changes our life in relationships, in business relationships, in life in general, is the idea, there's a line from the book A Course in Miracles that states, I'm paraphrasing here, but it's every act, no matter how skilled or unskilled, is either an expression of love or a call for love. So it's either love-based or fear-based, but even fear is really a separation from the state of love. And so we're seeking love itself. And so when you see, oh, someone's all, you know, coming from a place of ego, or we're coming from a place of posturing, or we're coming, it's this idea of like, well, it's because I'm trying to be loved and I'm just not skilled at connecting to that love. I'm not skilled at creating that love.

When you figured this out and you saw that it was going to be a process and you started working on it, when did you actually attract like your wife? And was that a journey? Or what happened after you— take us through that journey.

Yeah, so there were two major insights that changed my love life and that I have the privilege of supporting women in. We talk about midlife. Most of the clients I work with are in midlife and they're at a transition where they're like, okay, I either want to take my relationship deeper or I want to find the love of my life. And So I was, I was, when my first book came out, uh, I was able to speak on all these stages. And as, and I get to be backstage with all the other speakers and some of these, uh, relationship experts. So this is like 20 years ago. They were talking about this concept that I had never heard before.

Okay.

And it was called polarity. I was like, well, what the hell is polarity? And it's this idea about masculine and feminine energy. And I was like, well, how, what is that? And how do I know what that is? And, but the idea that these two energies we all have. It's not male or female. It's— we, every one of us has masculine and feminine, and it's on a spectrum, meaning you can be more masculine or more feminine. You can dial it up or down depending on your own mentality, depending on the energy you want to lead with. And when they began to talk about this, I knew there was like this light bulb that went off that was like, wow, it was my own, uh, uh, fear of really being vulnerable.. And I knew that I had my entire dating relationship pattern modeled after my sister, who was one of my early love and relationship coaches, because she's older than I was. And when I was growing up, she had all kinds of success, but she's very feminine. And so I got her dating playbook down, man. And I knew exactly how to use all this feminine energy to draw to me, to pull to me these women. Well, the challenge is I'm naturally more of a masculine home base energy kind of guy. So the, I would then end up pushing them away or the energy would conflict or it would deflate. And that's what was replicating all of these crash and burn relationships. So, when I dove into that and studied everything I could around that, and ultimately, on the last stop, so it was all while I was listening to these speakers and I'm promoting my book, the last stop on the book tour, I go to this event. And I see a woman who's— it's this book, it's this giant expo, it's called the Wedding Expo in Los Angeles, and there's a woman working another booth.

I'm like, God damn right. And you're thinking at a wedding expo, by the way, they're all brides there. So I'm sure it's not that place you thought you were gonna come off meet anybody.

I thought that would be a great place to sell our first book, which was all about America's greatest marriages and whatnot. And so, so I see this woman, she's working another booth, and I completely shift I'm like, okay, my normal instinct was to be more feminine in my approach with her. I said, I'm going to embody my masculine energy, which is per— well, we can go through it, but one of the elements is pursuit, pursuing energy, leading energy. And so I put that on, which was totally uncomfortable for me at the time, way more risk, way scarier. And, uh, and so I led in with that and ultimately Long story short, uh, that was the day I met my wife.

Wow. Okay, wait, I gotta dig a little bit more on that. What does that mean? Like, give us an actual— like, explain what that means. You said pursuit energy versus, like, the— like, what would old Matt have done versus, like, what pursuit energy Matt did?

Yeah, totally, totally. So, so really simple, if we want to— it's like, what are the best practices for masculine and feminine energy? How do you know when you're in one versus the other? So there's kind 2 layers. Masculine energy tends to be more cognitive or head-centered, head-driven energy. Okay. Whereas feminine energy is heart-centered energy, more in the body. Masculine energy pursues and wants to provide, wants to deliver the mission, accomplish the mission and deliver what the feminine wants. Feminine energy, and we'll talk about misnomers here, but feminine energy is not weak. Is not passive, is not submissive. There's all these misnomers about like, oh, I don't want to be feminine because it's like I give up my power. No, you could be massively powerful and grounded in your feminine energy, but feminine energy is all about, uh, creating space and allowing and receiving what the masculine wants to provide. And so it's like pulling energy, so you can still initiate. It's leading but like with pulling energy, you can still lead, but it's pulling. It's like salsa dancing. The feminine steps back and the masculine steps forward, but the feminine has to step back to lead the masculine forward. It's like dropping the handkerchief or sending the smile. So I would, in the past, I would have walked by her, caught her eye, like shot her a look, smiled, and then kind of stepped to the side and kind of watched her look at me and try to get her to come to me. And then have her like play it so she's asking for my phone number, like not like strategically not ask for her number, but like get her to lean in. So she'll say, well, we should go out sometime and kind of, and be like, okay, yeah.

And like play that, give it, making it so they're the pursuer. So you're, they are right.

Making it so they're the pursuer. Exactly. And I got really, I got really good at that, but it was not, I, who was I? Drawing in. I was drawing in all these women who felt very good in their masculine energy. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. It's about we have to decide what kind of energy we're attracted to. At the end of the day, I'm really attracted to my— I'm really attracted to feminine energy. The cool part was, I'll just tell this last part, my wife was so grounded in her feminine energy. I was still wobbly in my— I wasn't very good at it. So I asked her out for a date on my practicing I got her number, so I take her out on this first date. But to give context, I had to fly from Oregon down to LA to take her out because I was on a book signing in another— in LA.

That's good pursuing.

That's big. I flew down, I pick her up at her house, first date. It was like embarrassing to even say this, but I was like, all right, hey, so, uh, where do you want to go for dinner? I'm taking her to dinner. She gets in the car.

You went right back to feminine energy.

Yeah. I'm like, where do you want to go? Take you anywhere you want. And she's like, wait a minute, you don't have a place that you're like, you want to go out? And I'm like, well, you know, this is your town. You're from LA, you know, like anywhere you want to go. And she was like, you're the guy, you asked me out. Don't you like have a plan? And she was very sweet about it, but she was calling me to the carpet. And I like, my whole body began to go into fight or flight. Like my palms sweated, my, oh crap. Like I am dropping the ball right now. And so I get out my phone, I'm like looking for a spot, and she threw me a lifeline, but in a very great feminine way where she says, hey, just so you know, I like Italian or sushi. So either one of those would be great, but you pick the place. That's great. So she, in other words, she made a request. Here's what I would love. You choose. And so I picked the sushi place and we went and something happened that I had never experienced before, frankly. And that was when the masculine seeks to provide what the feminine wants, there is a very specific risk involved because we are tied. Our happiness is tied to your happiness. Our happiness is tied to do we deliver what you want. It signals that we are actually worthy as a man to be your partner in this moment if we can deliver happiness to you. And so because I, I picked the place. We go into this sushi place. It was very cool. We sit down and she's looking around, she's looking at this place, and she's like, you know what, this place is awesome. Good decision. That was brilliant. And I felt this payoff because there was a risk. The reward was way bigger, and it was like this level of attraction that skyrocketed. And I was like, wow, okay, so this is, this is this model. This is what it looks like. And it was and we were off to the races.

I love that. You know, my husband and I have been together for 15 years, not married 15 years, we've been together for 15 years. And this is very true for us, this whole polarity issue where, and we were definitely doing it incorrectly for many, many years. And when we both learned about it, like just sort of on our own, learned about that and were able to flip it, it actually started feeling a lot more comfortable and it changed our relationship in such a good way. And when I had first mentioned, I had mentioned that on either podcasts or social media, a lot of people sort of came at me with that, that's like backwards and that's, that sounds so dated and this isn't 1950s.

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

Old-fashioned.

Yeah.

And I don't, I didn't feel like that at all. So can you just go a little deeper on why, why do people think that and what is it actually?

Well, because there's all kinds of misconceptions of what it means to be feminine, that you stay at home, take care of the kids, you're going to cook every meal and do the laundry and you're a homemaker and you can't have ambition and you can't speak your mind and you can't lead. And so it's like a dance and especially, and even so then when you get into a committed relationship, you can share in who's leading and who's following, but being conscious of how the dance flows allows us to not step on each other's toes and collide. So there are moments when my, and it can be very sexy actually. There's, and I don't believe there's a right way and a wrong way. It's about, are you getting the result you want? Yeah. Is there attraction? Are you drawn to each other? Is it working? Because you can, like I said, go back and forth between masculine and feminine. Most of us have a home base. Most of us have something that feels really good in relationships. Like you can be the, the, a lot of, cause I coach a lot of women, a lot of women use their masculine energy to thrive in business. Yeah. And they can be the ass-kicking leader, the visionary, the driver, the producer, all of that in business. And there's a part of them that when they enter the relationship, they want to be able to relax, step back, not have to lead all the time, feel safe, feel softer, receive, like they want that in their relationship. So it's all about whatever it is that we want, how do we create it?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense to me. I, and I, and I always say that, that is literally our dynamics. I do that. I have my outlet to do that in business. And wherever, but when in our relationship at home, that is not who I am. And, we've worked at it and it's much more comfortable honestly now to be really clear on that, on those roles. It's much more clear. I mean, and my husband will still sometimes even till this day, he'll be like, "Where do you want to go for dinner?" And, he knows. I'm like, "I don't want to make the decisions. You make those decisions. Like, you know what I like. You pick, you plan." So, we'll still have that a little bit, but it has made for a way happier marriage for us.

Yes. So, so here's— so on that note, how do you lead from the feminine and draw him into his masculine if you're a powerful woman and you want to do that? And what's great is there's some very, very like, like buzzwords that trigger the masculine in, in a man who wants to be in his masculine again. And that is where you can say, hey honey, you know what would make me feel really loved? Like that, bing! Like you say that, he goes full alert. Like he's stopping gaming, he's stopping the TV, and he's like, okay, it's like basically this is your mission should you choose to accept it, right? Like that's the translation. And even if you're like, you know what would make me feel really loved is if you would plan a romantic dinner for us this weekend, like someplace with, with tablecloths.

I would love that.

You know what I mean? And it's like, okay, candlelight and tablecloths, I'm on it. And then he can pick whatever he designs, but you've given him, here's what I would love. Yeah. It's the, it's the blueprint to your happiness. And that's what we want. So that's not leading. That's actually pulling, creating a space, and giving him something he can provide. And we thrive on that.

I love that. I love that. So you say that most women, they're not doing dating wrong, they're just turning the attraction off.

What do you mean by that? Well, then, so what happens is it's this dynamic of just not being aware because we're in an era where who pays for the date? Who asks people out? Like, it's completely okay for any one of us to ask the other one out for the number and who pays. And so it's not about doing it wrong, but we're— if you're wanting a masculine guy, how do you invite him to ask for your number? How do you invite him to plan the date? How do you invite him? And here's the biggest challenge, and why especially those of us who are successful creators, like we know how to make stuff happen, being anchoring into the feminine requires two things. It requires that we make a very clear request, which we're usually good at. We can make that clear request, But then it requires not controlling the outcome and not filling the gap. And the big challenge comes is if his timing doesn't match with your timing. Like, you're like, he's going to take me out on Saturday, like, he should have it planned by now. And a lot of guys are not good at this, by the way. They won't give you the plan soon enough. They won't tell you what to wear, what time they're picking you up. And so there are ways in which you can ask him for that information and still stay in the feminine. Like, you can say things like, you know, I find it really— I find a man that gives me advanced planning on what we're doing, I find that so attractive. Would you be willing to do that for me? That's good. So good. Instead of you saying, what time are you picking me up? Where are we going? This and that. Like, lead from a higher level. So that's the biggest thing, is we rush to fill the gap or we just take over.

So I find that women, a lot of times, it's almost like they become a chameleon. They try to become what they think the man would want. And I don't know where that comes from. But I wanted to dive a little deeper into that. So like what I mean by that is they're so excited about this person they're going to have a date with or that asked them out or whatever it is that when they do say something like, I don't know, where do you want to go? Which is the opposite. The woman wants so badly to make this work that they're like, they think they're gonna go plan it now and they're gonna go do that. So they, it's like they jump in right away because they don't want to risk the date not happening. Does this make sense what I'm asking or saying?

100%. So yes, and, and there's a couple dynamics that, that come into play here where, and I'm so sure so many people that are watching this or listening to this can, can relate where when we're dating early on, we want the other person to like us before we've even decided if we like them.

Yeah. What is that about? It's like a massive test.

And we bring— and so ultimately it's the part of us, if we get really honest with ourselves, is the part of us that doesn't believe we're going to find the right person. It's the part of us that is coming from lack. Wow. And so the, the antidote to that is we talk about vision, is to number one, create a crystal clear vision for what you want. Because half of creating the relationship you want is saying no to the wrong relationship faster or saying no to behavior you don't want faster and being willing to speak up. So that's, that's the great accelerator, but you've got to be clear on what it is that you want first. Then the second thing is to trust in this idea, it's this or something even better still. In other words, that there's this concept, a spiritual principle of polarity that's not masculine or feminine, but it's the energy that, that for every energy there is the counterpoint to that energy. For up, there's down. For in, there's out. For hot, there's cold. Like, I believe spirits put the— if there's the desire for love in your heart, that wouldn't actually be— spirit wouldn't have put it there if the counterpoint to that desire didn't already exist. So in other words, this, this knowingness that yes, my person exists, my person is out there. And so this person that I'm dating is either going to be a match to me or someone even better still is in store for me. And that deep knowingness frees us to then do a very important thing. And that is to, is to generate our own resonance, so to speak. That's like, your authentic self, Natalie. Like, you know what you like, you are who you are, and someone who isn't aligned with you, they're not gonna like you. But someone who is aligned with you, like Brooks, he's gonna love that. He's gonna be like super aligned with you. And so trusting in that process enough to say, I'm going to be fully me so that I can scare off the wrong guys faster.

So when you talk about that part with like the vision, I'm assuming you mean more like how you want to feel, not like specifics about them. And the reason I'm asking that is I know when I first met Brooks, I had a list like so long. I mean, it was the size of California, my list. It was like all the things that I wanted. And he was none of those things. He was one of them. Like, of all the whole list, he was like one of the things. But the things he was, was like basically the how I wanted to feel. So, and that's why I bring that up. Like I had all these like rules, like they will look like what they were going to look like, what they're going to be like, what they're going to be doing for a living, like ridiculous amounts of stuff. So, so, um, help us with that. Cause a lot of women hear that and they're going to go make their list for their order. But what do you mean by that? Like, what do you want them focusing on?

That's such a, that's such a great point because in personal development and manifestation, um, I had a coach once, an athletic coach who said, I coach everybody the same differently. What are you talking about? And he goes like, not everybody's at the same point. So there's the version of the person, they've never even let themselves know what they want. And so actually creating some clear things and qualities that they want is very, very helpful. And then there are those of us, I resonate with you. I wrote an entire chapter in my first book called How I Learned to Lose the List because my list was like 400 things long. And what happens is we can squeeze the infinite into our own controlled box and we don't leave room for what it is that we would love. And so here are some guidelines that really help in, in creating a list. That's great. Number one is we talk about the values you want this person to have, because the two of you are going to have shared values in life— health, spirituality, humor, kindness, general— like, what are the values you want? Family. What do you want this person to value? Um, and then the second thing that you talked about, like, how do I want to feel in this person's presence, I think is a really, really beautiful thing to identify, because you're either going to feel massive, or you're going to feel constrictive. There's going to be a feeling of lightness and life, or there's going to be a feeling of just like you're trying to make it work and it's just clunky and, and a little bit hard. You want to really pay attention to how smooth it feels to be with this person. And then write down things that he can control. Like, in other words, yeah, we want a guy with hair and all of his teeth. Yeah, we want a guy who's this, but like Can he control how tall he is? Can he control how much hair he has? How can he, can he control these things? There are things that are outside of our control. So I like to say, what are the things he can control? His, his qualities, his values, his beingness. And then there's one line at the bottom that I like to leave blank. And it's for everything that God knows is perfect and right for me that I don't know yet. Yeah. And there's a line from Fools Rush In. That I love where Matthew Perry says to Salma Hayek, he said, you are everything I never knew I always wanted. And I feel like that with my wife. I had a huge list. I had to kind of let go of the list and throw the door open wide to who I was even willing to allow myself to date. And then I found my wife and I was like, she has stuff I would've never written on my list. This like, yeah, amazing. So I think that's important. Stay open.

Let's talk about looks for a minute because I know attraction and looks tend to go together. And I know, and I mean it both ways. So, take the midlife woman, for instance, they might feel they don't look their best, they're aging. Is that in their way? Or maybe they're really hung up on the looks of the other person. And I know you in the book talk about it's not so much about looks when it comes to attraction, it's about the energy. So, can you help us understand what actually makes a woman irresistible to a man.

Yes. And if we can, let's do two layers to this. One is what makes her irresistible to a man, but the other is for women who are finding that they're just not attracted to anybody in their— like, a lot of women in their midlife are like, the guys are, the guys are fat, or the guys are this and that, or like, they're not— how— what's going on there? And maybe some deeper things that's great that actually completely amplify our ability to find someone we're attracted to. So the first is, uh, there was a— Dr. Palla Allen was a colleague of mine who I heard her say this once, and I, I love what she said, where she goes, a man's biggest sex organ is completely misunderstood, and a man's biggest sex organ are his eyeballs. Oh, and I think to a large degree that's true, where we, we're visual creatures, like we love the stalt of a woman and like, and all of that. But there's also a layer in which we're perceiving that's super important because that is, we've, and, and every man can tell you this. There are women who are objectively like magazine level beautiful. They've got the hair and the look in the eye, but they're just not attractive. They're just like, there's something about them that's not, and other women who Maybe they're not like magazine cover girl quality, like gorgeous, but man, there's just something about her that is just irresistible. So what are those? What does one lack and the other have and vice versa? And then people, you know, who have, uh, have it all. And so it really comes down to the energy inside of us. And when we talk about our own level of self-love and our own level of being willing to love ourselves and fully express ourselves and being in our bodies and in the present moment.

Wow.

Is so powerful. So that is a massive amplification of feminine energy. So when you're walking down the street, notice we kind of tend to ride on our body somewhere. Most of us, if we got masculine energy in that moment, we're up in our heads and we're thinking about all of our to-dos and our business and whatnot. Do an experiment where you just drop your awareness down into your hips. As you're walking and just notice what happens to your beingness. Notice what happens to your body. There's something that when a woman amplifies her feminine energy, she moves into her heart. She moves into her body and it's sourced in self-love and self-acceptance because deep down every man wants to know that he can be enough for you. That feeling starts by you knowing you're enough for yourself. Ironically, that, that we feel like this, whoa, like I can, I can be more of myself. I can like fully express. It's just something so magnetic about that.

Wow. So, I think some women will hear that and it makes logical sense, but they go, but how? Because a lot of midlife women are so caught up with the changes of physical appearance. They're really— and the things that they can't control. And they think, they believe that that's the reason it's hard for them to date or it's hard for their husband to still be attracted to them. What do you want them to know? Because they— it really does mess with some women's heads. I mean, other than the ones that want to go plastic surgery and fix it or what in their mind what they're wanting to do, what do you want them to know? Like, are men really looking at that or what do you— you know, and the reason I asked that is I think about like with my husband, you know, he jokes if he's eating too much, I'll be like, oh, you're not going to want to be with me if I gain 15 pounds. And I would still be attracted to my husband if he— I don't want him to, but if he gained 15 pounds, I'm still attracted to him. And he says to me all the time when I color my gray hair, "Oh, I would, you know, you don't need to do that." And I'm thinking, "You're crazy. You're blind. Of course, I'm going to color it." But like, we really— I don't think we would be unattracted all of a sudden if physical things change like that. So, how do we help other women see this?

And it's all based in where we're placing our source of love. And our source of worth. And so if you say my worth is in what I look like, my worth is in how sexy I am, how big my boobs are, and how little fat I have, and all of that, which we're trained to do through social media and all the, all the magazines and all the things, and to recognize that that's actually not where your worth lies. It's not where your source of love is. And that, and that men are way more attracted to And I'll just put it in perspective, like, just point blank, there are a lot of guys that will have— yes, will be physically attracted to a sexy woman who's like objectively has all the things, then they sleep with her and they're not attracted to her anymore because that doesn't have staying power. Wow. We bond through the beingness of the other person. It's not all of— it's not the physical— it's not the physicality alone. It's the beingness that is way more powerful. And so You're like, well, how do I do that way more? Two really, really beautiful practices that are super straightforward. How do I begin to increase my level of self-love? This completely changed my life. Number one is to notice what we're noticing and notice when we're self-critical. And there's two times to do it. When you're in the mirror, you get out of the shower, you're looking in the mirror. Does your eye go to the place that's immediately wrong. Like we pinch our bellies or we do the thing and we look at the spots on us that are wrong. And in that moment, you notice what you're noticing. Oh, wow, I'm being critical. What you do is you say, no, that was then and this is now. You put that thought to the side or behind you and then you look yourself in the eye and you put your hand on your heart, activate your heart center, and you say, I love you. I love you. And then you fill your whole body with love in that moment. And then anytime you're walking by a window or a mirror in your daily life, we all do it. We look at ourselves and we wonder how are we appearing to the world? Instead of like judging ourselves or being about the physical appearance, send yourself a beam of love from your heart to the heart of the reflection and send yourself a beam of love and say, I love and accept you completely and wholly now.

I love that. I hope people are watching this on video right now because if you could see Matt, He's like a masculine looking dude talking like this. He's not like a, what, like, so women think men won't say things like that or coach things like that, but it's just funny listening to you say that, which tells me you have such an understanding. It's so wild.

Like it's, it's transformational. It seems so simple and it is transformational.

So I just had this whole epiphany, Matt, about being younger. Dating world, like in my 20s. And when you were— we were unhappy, women were unhappy with the boyfriend or the dating, and we would be told, "You need to play hard to get." And what I'm hearing from that now, it's so interesting. Really what that was, was a way to try to act as if you're feminine, which the message should have actually been, "Be more yourself." Like, be more your real self. But when you, when we heard play hard to get, it was like another act on top of being masculine. It was like another way to control. Does that make sense what I'm saying?

Like, it was like— It totally does. It totally does. And the be hard to get is, uh, the reason it's so confusing is because it works sometimes. You're like, whoa, that, that, like, that worked. But what was it about that moment that worked? And here's, here's the dynamic that we want to, that we want to hone in on. And you spoke to it, which is be more yourself. But more ourself in what way? And more ourself in the way that we feel worthy of what we want. Because so often what we'll do is we'll make concessions for the other person, right? Or we'll, we'll just give them what they want because we're afraid of losing them. And so that's a fear-based decision where we'll sleep with them too soon when we're not feeling ready, or we'll do something they want to do where really we feel out of alignment. So be more yourself means being willing to speak your honest opinion, your honest wants, your honest desires, and your honest standards. So when we tell you hard to get, really what it's about is, well, what are your standards? What is the standard for when you'll be intimate with somebody? When's the standard when you'll be exclusive with somebody? What are those standards? And here's why it plays so well with the masculine, because the standard does two things. It gives him a mission to try to hit, Yeah, right. Like, uh, an easy way to do this— let's say you're dating this super hot guy and he's everything on your list. Like, you finally met him. It's like Brooks when you're first dating. Like, you love— like, wow, this is amazing. Maybe second date and you guys are making out and things are getting hot and heavy, and he's like, hey, let's take this into the bedroom. And let's just say for the sake of this conversation, the woman in this scenario doesn't want to sleep with him just yet. Like, she want— like, she wants to, but there's another part of her that doesn't want to say it.

She's been told play hard to get. Yeah, she's got that in her head.

Or she just knows that she wants to save that for when she's like got more trust built, more connection built, you know, all of that. So a standard would be to let him know that you like to say something like, you have no idea how bad I want to do that right now. Like affirm your attraction. And then you say, and I'm reserving that for when I'm in a committed exclusive relationship with somebody and we're not quite there yet. Yeah, we'll see how this goes. So now he's like, okay, I've got a clear objective. I want to be that guy who can be exclusive and committed with you. Let me keep pouring into this. Now he got— and so he invests. Then when it finally does pay off, he feels special. Yeah. And when— and so when he feels special in your presence, you become special to him.

So I think we need to go back to 1980 and 1990, and we shouldn't be saying play hard to get. It be— value yourself and be hard to get because you—

you're—

it's your interview process too. Like, you shouldn't be the— so it— the word play was like interesting because that's like telling women to act a certain way, but what we really wanted to do is be that way.

Yeah, be— well, be true to your standards. Yeah, like have them—

it should be hard to get. It should be. It should be. Not— I don't mean as a game. I mean as like, you— if you're thinking of someone for a long-term relationship, It should be hard to figure that out either way. It shouldn't just be— it doesn't work day one like that.

It can, and it's all about what you want. Because I coach so many women that some are like out of, like recently out of divorce, and there's 55, and they're like, look, I got married when I was 20, I want to play, like I want to sleep around, I want to, I want to have fun. And so for them, it's their, their standard is, do I feel comfortable with him? Do I? Yeah, it's totally different, whatever. And so We are all our own highest authority on creating a life that we would love. And so that's the most important thing is that makes sense. And then what are the standards? And then how do I match that?

So I like what you said about staying true to your standards because you're right, it's different for different people. So somebody's standard might be, well, I just want to, I want to, I want to fill the bus. I want to have a different date every day. I want to just, you know, keep it going. And someone else's standard is, no, I'm— I really, unless it's like this one particular type, this type of relationship, I don't want it. So you're right, it's— you have to be true to your, your standards. It sounds empowering, but how do— okay, so I know women are listening going, okay, I get it, I hear you, but how do I do that without pushing them away?

So here's the 3-step process. Number 1 is affirm your attraction or your mutual connection. Most of us, what happens is we get so— we kind of go fight or flight. We get so scared. Oh, he's about to cross my standards or boundaries, or like he wants to sleep together or do this or that, that we lose composure. Okay. So as to stay grounded and number one, affirm where the mutual agreement is, like, yeah, I would like to sleep with you right now. There's a big part of me that would like that. Or yeah, I would like to spend the weekend with you up in, up in the mountains. Like, that sounds fun, but maybe you're not ready for it. So you affirm it and then you say, and I'm reserving that for— name your standard. And so, and then you finish up with, I'm really liking you, we're headed in the right direction, but we're just not quite there yet.

And I, as I'm hearing stories of women so many times that they don't do this part and they, they, they're like, well, I'm going to change him or I'm going to, I'm going to like, you know, I will just, I'll do what he wants now because he's going to come around, but there's no Or the man says, well, I'm not, I want it. I'm going to be dating around. I'm going to see lots of women. And the woman says, I'm okay with that, but they're not really okay with that. And next day they're becoming that chameleon.

Yeah, exactly. They never talk about it and they just assume if I just say yes to all the things he wants, he'll be committed with me and exclusive with me. And that's actually not the way it works. The masculine energy loves crystal clear agreements. It loves clarity. There's a friend of mine who says, "Men don't speak hint." We love that direct communication.

What about the women that are married? They've been married 10 years, 20 years. Yes. And they've been doing it all not the way you're talking about. It's like they're here, they're going, "Well, we already haven't been doing it that way." And they're the ones saying, "We're roommates." Or, you know, how do they begin to start to shift this? Because that's very different than dating world.

What do they do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me talk to one of the biggest challenges in those scenarios, and that's where the woman's lost respect for her man, because that seems like it's almost impossible to come back from in so many, so many scenarios. And even all the research— when I interviewed America's greatest marriages, uh, we drove 12,000 miles, interviewed over 300 couples married over 40 years, interviewed all these couples. The number one thing that they all talked about that creates a lifelong marriage is respect. And then what that looks like when you read John Gottman and Julie Gottman, like the best researchers on the planet in relationships, and they talk about the 4 signs that predict you're going to get divorced. They're all 4 signs of disrespect. And so what ends up happening is ironically, the number 1, the secret desire that every masculine man has is to feel respected, is to have his thoughts respected. The challenge is when he's living life in a way where you don't respect it. Like, I'll give you an example. There was, uh, we were leading this retreat. One of the, the women, one of the women came to me and she goes, look, my husband's been out of work for a year. I, he's not pursuing something. Like, he's, he's completely lost his mojo. He's completely lost himself. I don't feel like I have any respect for him anymore. Like, he's just bump on a log, like sitting on the couch and like our marriage is in a desperate place right now because, and like I feel so angry and all of these, all of these experiences. So how do you repair that moment? How do you actually begin to regain respect for somebody? And the practice of this is, is gonna seem overly simple, but it absolutely works. And so anyone who's in this place right now, I encourage you to just put it on like an experiment.. And what you do is whatever energy flows where our attention goes, whatever you focus on expands. If we've lost respect for someone, chances are that's what we've been focused on for weeks or months. And so it's colored our entire perception now. And there's a— chances are there are things that you actually do respect about this individual, that they aren't cheating on you, that they come home, that they pull their weight in this way and pull their weight in that way. It's never black black and white. So the key is to actually shift your focus and put it on what do you appreciate or admire about this individual? And what you do is in the morning, you write down 3 things that you appreciate or admire about them in your journal. And then at night, you actually share. It's called the appreciation practice where you say, hey, you know what? I just want you to know, I really appreciate the way in which you just hold space for me. Like you're my biggest cheerleader and I just, I so value that. Thank you so much for playing that role in my life. And you start to pour into the other person. In the beginning, because if you haven't respected him, chances are you guys haven't complimented each other or given— it's gonna feel awkward and it's gonna feel weird. And he might even get defensive, like, what's gotten into you? He might not trust it. Be consistent with this. After a week or two, you are gonna feel that his cup is so full of appreciation and what he interprets as respect that he will raise his game to a whole nother level. So that woman came to me at that seminar and said, so I have lots of— and I showed her the— I said, try this out just tonight. Share with him 3 things that you appreciate about him. I was like, is there anything? And she was like, well, yeah, he's a great dad and he's this and that. And I said, share that with him. She came back to me the next morning and she was like, that, that was like the magic sauce. I've never seen him that way. Like he's— he had completely closed off to her and like, wasn't open with her. And so she said, hey honey, I just, you know, I know I don't say this very often. I just want you to know, I really, there's so much about you that I really appreciate the way that you're a dad with our kids and this and that. So she shared several things. She said, Matt, he like turned to me and his face softened and I could feel his heart open. And he just started sharing, sharing, sharing, sharing all these things that had been on his heart and where he's at in his, in his career and what he wants to create and things I didn't even know about. It was the best connection we've had.

That's awesome. I know some women listening are like, "That's great advice. I'm going to do that." And there's some women super in the masculine, super in the controlling, super in ego. I was that woman, so I'm not judging, that are going to say, "But I want to be right. No, I want to be right." So for those women that want to be right, you're going to have better advice than me, but I'm going to throw this out there first is what I had to get clear with was what's my intention? Was my intention to be right or was my intention to have a happy marriage? So, I had to like have that conversation with myself first. Help us with that because there's definitely, there's two camps, you know, you're gonna, there's women that go, I'm running with it, I'm doing that. And there's women that are like, heck no, I'm still mad. You know, they want, they want their own to all completely just change.

What do you want? So, what you're, so, so what you're talking about ultimately when you say I want to be right, Well, what are we unhappy about? And it's very important that anytime you're angry to look underneath the anger. There's this concept called the anger iceberg where it's like anger is the presenting emotion, but always, almost always underneath anger is hurt, betrayal, sadness, or fear. And so anytime I'm angry, it's really helpful for me to say, okay, what am I angry? What am I sad about? Or what am I afraid of? And to get really clear on that. And almost always there's unmet needs that we have, unmet needs in the relationship. Like you have a need for safety or you have a need for affection or a need for reassurance or a need for play or a need for this not being met in the relationship. And then for us to say, okay, this is what I'm really feeling resentful for. And then what we do is we take accountability to say it's actually not the other person's job to meet my needs. And many of us have been trained that their job is to make us happy. It's my job to meet my needs and I can still ask for help. And so say, hmm, what am I really needing right now? I'm really needing support or connection. And then you can come to them and there's a, there's a 5-step framework about how to have this conversation that's really powerful. But ultimately you present that to them and say, hey, my intention is to connect with you. My intention is to build an even stronger bond with you, to come back to your point on intention. And I've noticed I've been feeling this sense of sadness because one of the needs I'm having is more affection, meaning just hand-holding and cuddling. And so would you be willing to do that for me? Like maybe tonight we cuddle on the couch and watch our favorite program or whatever it is. But knowing what your need is and then asking for support and getting it met is a game changer.

Back to your initial personal development story. When you were in that, that thing where they were picking and numbering you and all of that, When you look back and reflect on that now, what do you wish you knew then?

I'm a big believer in— there's this principle that Napoleon Hill writes about in Think and Grow Rich where every challenge or heartache or difficulty contains within it the seed of an equal or greater benefit. And so like that night, I cried that night. Like that night, it was brutal. Like I tears soaking my pillow and we were all in a big bunk room. Like we're in this event. So I'm like with 50 other guys and I'm trying to cry like quietly so nobody hears me because I'm so embarrassed. So it was very painful, but I also, but that became the burning desire. The seed of good was the burning desire to solve it for me so that I could find love and then share it with anyone else who was struggling with the same thing I was struggling with to share it with them.. So it was one of those things like, what do I wish I would've known? At the end of the day, I'm so truthfully grateful for the courage these women had to not sugarcoat, but actually give me the real feedback and tell me what was really going on because it gave me the roadmap to identify in myself. Like that night when I got home after the retreat, one of my good friends, her name is Aga, and we were just friends, but she wanted to hear all about it. So she came over and she was like, Matt, Like, how did it go? And there was this whole debate I had. Do I tell her about the island? Do I tell her this thing? She's going to feel like I've been fake. She's going to feel like I've been not a good friend. Like, I had all this fear in me. And I just said to myself, fuck it. I'm going to just tell her the truth. And I told her this. And I'm kind of like so afraid. I'm looking down, telling her about it. And when I look up, it was transformational for me because she had tears in her eyes. And she goes, Matt, this is the closest I've ever felt to you. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing. And I knew that that's the connection I want.

Yeah. That right there. So sometimes women are trying so hard to get the connection that they can come off as like interrogating, like they're asking questions and it's, well, what, how do they become self-aware of that? And what do they do instead?

Yeah. It's funny. I was that, I was that same way. That's us trying to control. And not waste our time and figure out, is this the person who's going to be my person for life? Right? Like, yeah, it's like an interview, like a job.

That's definitely how I do. I'm sure that's how I did it. I'm sure I did it just like I am on the podcast.

Yeah. So, uh, this is where the technique is to actually move into your body. See, what we often don't know is like, that's— we're trying to solve it out from our head, right? Yeah. And, and so when we actually, our body's got amazing intelligence and we can move into our body and we can feel, does this feel expansive? Does this feel light, life-giving? Does this feel overall good to me? Or does this feel a little bit off? When we can move our awareness into our body, what it gives us is directional correctness. And so here's the invitation. The invitation is when we go back and we look at all the relationships that didn't work out, and you kind of review that, almost always our body knew one thing and our head overrode it. For sure. Went forward anyway. So it's like, okay, let me begin to trust the intelligence that exists within my body and tune into that. And then the question is not, is this my man? The question is not, am I going to marry this person? My question is, do I want to see him one more time? That's it. If I ask, answer that question with yes, two things happen. You're trusting that it's moving you in directional correctness. That means by seeing him one more time, your life pattern is changed and altered. So it's actually leading you to your person, whether it's him or someone else. So you're believing that it's not like I'm wasting my time. If I wanna see him one more time, if that feels good, it's all working out, whether it's him or somebody else. That becomes a game changer cuz we don't have to carry the pressure of knowing something we could never know.

Oh gosh. Okay. There's so much more we could even talk about. Listen, if you're listening, you have to go get his book. It's called The Man Code. And what you want to do, well, I think that you can get it anywhere, but I'm going to give you a link. We're going to link it up below too that you can go and tell— where do you want them to go to get it? Do you want them to go to that link? Do you want them to go—

where do you want them to go? What we've done is we've created a page at— it's Cracking the Man Code. Okay. And we've created a special page that's got over 300 $100 in bonuses when you buy a book. And we've got— it's, it's so good. I wanted to really provide as much value and as many resources as I could. So I'm super happy about this book and the value that's in this. So whether you're in a relationship or you want to find a relationship and really create a deep connection, it will help you. It's got all the frameworks that we talked about in the book. And then a bunch of other bonuses. So crackingthemancode.com.

Is a place where they can go and grab the book and get all the bonuses. Amazing. Amazing. And I always, every time I interview somebody that has a book, I always share that if this resonates with you and you're like this, I encourage you to get a few of them. Don't just get one book, like 3, because it's good to give to your friends and then it's like your own little mini book club. Because I don't know about— I'm like that. If I read a book and I'm all into it, it's like top of mind, I want to talk about it with my friends. So, I automatically, when something resonates with me, I don't just get one book. I get 3 of them. That way I can give them to some of my girlfriends and we can all talk about it.

Well, it was funny you're reflecting that is my vision is increasing love in the world one heart at a time. And so the idea was a million books in 18 months because women are giving it to women. That's amazing. That's what I've been holding in my mind.

I love that.

To see that. Look at that.

I love it. The vortex is working behind our scenes.

Look at that.

Um, what do you wish I asked you that I didn't?

Oh, that's, that's a great question. I actually— what comes to my mind in this moment is if— and maybe you've already shared this with your listeners, but not on this podcast yet— and that's like, what has been the single thing that's helped you and Brooks create the relationship that you guys have?

Gosh, I, I honestly— the masculine feminine thing really landed for us, and not in the way that you think. It's not that we heard about it and all of a sudden we just changed. I think we both in our own ways, we learned that our relationship was not working. And fortunately, because both of us were so into personal development and so committed to that, like we just did so much work around that. And I think us separately on our own realized that. So it wasn't— we didn't change our whole personality. It's nothing like that. But we changed who we were to each other in a lot of ways. So I think that awareness really went a long way with us, the masculine and feminine. And then also the piece that you talked about with gratitude, because we used to be really resentful to each other about the things we didn't like. You know, it was like, it was almost like, I want her to change, or I want him to change. But once we let that go and instead focus, like what you said, on the gratitude, that might sound cheesy to someone listening, but it wasn't. Like, I just had, I started, there's so many things that I love about my husband. There's so many things he loves about me. We just shifted all the focus to those things and those things that bothered us, they like dissipated. They went away. Like they're non-issues now. I mean, I'm not saying we never have a fight. We do. But it's the things that I think about being issues 5 years ago are literally not issues in our life now. I think that's 2 things. It was the realizing that— well, 3 things: being committed to personal development and growth. Because I think if you're both not committed to growth, that's a problem right there, right? So we were both committed to growth. We were both— we both learned about the whole feminine and masculine and took accountability around that. And then 3, the gratitude, like what do we really appreciate? Yeah, I think that's what I would say were the biggest changes.

I love that.

That's brilliant. All right. Well, thanks, Matt, so much. I'm going to link up all the stuff in the show notes, but you can get The Man Code and I'm going to link up the link to get all the bonuses. Thank you so much, Matt, for being here today.

Oh, it was my pleasure. Thank you.