Offer Anchoring, Market Sophistication, Sales, Growing Your Business (Client Ascension Mastermind)

25 of our clients flew to Tampa, Florida for our mastermind and that is what you are about to watch. The client essential mastermind from April 2023. I got two things to ask of you. If this is the second time you are watching a video for me, please hit the subscribe button. And if you get any value from this at all, please share it. Share it in your group chats, on Twitter, on your stories, wherever. It's a little blurry in some points. Just listen to a podcast, just ignore it. But let's get right into it.

Yeah, we birthed the greatest content creator.

Yeah. 60 pieces of short form content, two hours of your time. It's so simple.

That was manifest commission, actually. We don't want anything to do with that. Don't, don't, don't make that association.

I made it and it got saturated in like eight minutes. Like legit.

But no, this is what we want, right? We want to have with a smaller group event, way different than what we did back in October. Actually kind of inspired by what Gabe and Joey did at their last event in Nashville that I was lucky enough to be a part of is just more of an intimate setting, smaller group. I can look at issue guys, look at each of these guys up here, and we could have kind of like a town hall and a discussion of like, what's happening in our space, what's working, what's not working, what questions are on your mind, what answers might we have for you? And so that's kind of where we want to go with this. We're kind of planning like maybe 15, 30 minutes of us, just kind of. I'm sure we'll get a Daniel rant in there at some point, like he likes to do, but we'll talk for a little bit and then we'll do Q and A. So if you guys have questions that you have specifically for one of us or just as a group, we'll. We'll just go down the line and answer them as best we can. We have questions from some of the guys that can't be here from the community in Slack. So we'll go through some of those and we'll just. We'll rip it and then we'll go smoke cigars at Grand Cathedral.

Just real quick. Anyone stand up and ask a question?

Oh, yeah, yeah. So put a number one in the Zoom chat if you have a question and I'll go in order, one question per person at a time.

Just toss up a one.

Yeah.

You got some stuff in there?

Yeah, yeah, we'll do this.

So, yeah, get in here after.

No, we're gonna dive right in.

Speak, sir.

Yeah, well, not to the questions, but to what you guys have planned to talk about. I just want to give you guys.

Okay, yeah, no, okay. The biggest thing I've seen recently, not even with everyone who here has had scripts on my call written by me.

Show of hands, I love, again, the audience engaged.

That's how you break the nerves. No, but the biggest thing I've seen, not even with cold email, but with offers in general recently, is the ones that do the best are offers that are anchored to something. And I put out a thread about this, and I don't know if it really resonated super well, just because it's like a thought process I kind of invented and came up with on the spot. And for example, offer anchoring, what people sometimes don't really understand is that what they think sounds good on a cold email or in an offer doesn't sound good to their audience. What do I mean by this? So, for example, who has an offer that I did this well, for Alex, actually. Fractional cfo, right? If you send a cold email, like, I can be your fractional cfo, they're probably going to be like, okay, great. That's not really interesting to me. But if you anchor your offer of being a fractional CFO to your past experience, what was the experience we did for your offer? Like, yeah, so, like, right there, his fractional CFO services are anchored to the fact that he had experience scaling and exiting a company, and now he can apply those learnings of the financials that he learned at that company. Two is the people we're reaching out to, right? So now it's like, okay, I can visualize in my head this guy, you know, built and sold a company with his financial knowledge, and now he can pass that knowledge on to me. Another example is, like, with you guys with your Default Kings offer, right? You could just say, like, I could be your fitness coach. That doesn't really resonate in someone's head, but if you then apply it to weight loss, like, I can help you lose 40 pounds in the next year, for example, or like 20 pounds in the next six weeks. Now they're like, they can visualize in their head what 20 less pounds on their body feels and looks like and how that will impact their life. So I just think the biggest thing is really finding a way to anchor your offer into something tangible, whether it's a guarantee, past experience in something, or like a set number, like 10 booked calls on your calendar in a month. Right. 60 pieces of short form content in two hours of your time. And I've. Because the biggest. Yes, just to wrap up the biggest mishap I see sometimes is like, we can help you achieve a forex roas with your marketing campaigns. Like no one can really sit there and visualize like, oh, forex roas, like how much am I investing? What's the output like? I don't really know what this means, but if you say like I helped, you know, XYZ brand, you know, generate 40k in three months with my marketing services and I can help you do the same. Now your offer is tied to something really tangible. It's going to resonate really well in a cold email on your landing page, on a sales call, like 10k in 6 months guaranteed or you don't pay is kind of how we anchor our offer. So yeah, that's, that's just kind of the biggest trend I've seen recently with offer creation, copyright and cold email.

So I think another expansion on this is to kind of look at the way markets sophisticate. So as an example of short form content, I'm just using that because everyone knows everybody is aware of this. So if it was a year ago when like YouTube shorts started just becoming a thing, you could just say to anyone, I can make you short form content. And it was powerful enough to get people interested in just solely due to the unique mechanism. Yeah, that's because there were no other competing offers. So it's like market sophistication level one. You're the imagine as if each sophistication level is you in a small market and it's just you and one other person. So that's market sophistication level one. There's no one else you. So you can say anything and it will work. The next level is people start switching up the market sophistication levels and it just goes higher and higher. And then people start introducing claims and going higher and higher in that. And then you have to start introducing risk reversals at the highest level of sophistication. And then additionally at the highest level of sophistication, people only buy things because it's you. Right. So if you ever get in a call with me for your offer feedback, it's always very simple. It's the same thing over and over time. It's claim, risk reversal and then evidence. And the reason why I've structured that regardless of what you're selling is because it's instantaneously up to market sophistication level five. So you don't have to sit here and play around with is this at 1, is this at 2, is it just go straight to 5? And that's exactly why if you employ it, you have a claim, you have a risk reversal and you document your evidence and you make a personal brand around it. There's 100% of the time.

What's an example like claim risk reversal.

I will ours. It actually is. That's, that's such a good example. So ours is we, we will, we'll help you build 10k to 50k a month in profit. If it doesn't work, you don't pay. And then there's an absolute ton of evidence. And that's exactly why it works. So if you were to sit here and try to backtrack, like why is client essential so successful? It is like that solely like. But that is exactly why. And then you can look at other people's offers where like default kings right here. Literally that's not even money related. It's we'll help you lose this amount of pounds and this time and then a bunch of evidence behind it. So it goes straight to market sophistication level five and that's all you have to do.

I think a great example is the email marketing klaviyo offer. Back in like 2020, my bread and butter was do you use klaviyo for email marketing? And people would say yes, that was the one sentence.

Cold email.

So many people would say yes, I do use klaviyo. Why do you ask? And it's just like setting you up for like bang, I can help you do this. And now if you do that, you'll get minimal results.

That's a one, two punch.

That's like the definition of, of market sophistication.

Right?

Because now I think email marketing's in a place where you need to layer in the offer of like I'll record a video breaking down your email flows. Like expertise, like what Daniel said, so go ahead. Or like another thing that's I think is the future of email marketing pitches is like layering in a TikTok or a landing page offer into the email marketing just to make it differentiated. Whereas two years ago you could say do you use klaviyo? Yes, booked call, you know.

So my question for you guys, I don't know who has the answer but at what, what are the signals of this is the next phase of market sophistication. Like how do you know that you are entering A new phase of market sophistication where you have to introduce risk reversal, you have to introduce guarantees. Is it a certain close rate, is a certain revenue level.

When you get on a call and they're talking to three other people that are doing the same thing?

I think the answer differs for everybody. Like, for me, cold email metrics go down because that's where I live in cold email. Dan lives on the sales calls. I think it happens at every level.

Yeah, I mean, there's no, there's only one single determiner. This is what I was going at earlier when I was saying, oh, let's not have to sit here and try to phase out which market sophistication level is just go straight to the end. It's just, it's just the simplest way to do it because it's always gonna. It's always gonna end up there anyway. And given, given a comparison between, oh, they're talking to some other person and they're talking to you, and you have some specific claim, you have some specific risk reversal, they're probably going to pick you 100 of the time because it just is a better value proposition.

But how do you so devil's advocate, how do you avoid just commoditizing yourself.

Like a race to the bottom by evidence?

Right?

Yeah, it's evident. It's that process that a lot of people get stuck in, where in the beginning it's. It's super slow to acquire evidence because one client begets results, which begets another client, which begets more results. And it's a slow process to get that first batch of results. And that one, like moonshot, like I mentioned, made this person 75k doing this. But right when you have it, you just feel it, like, right when it's there on the landing page, then you make a sales asset out of it, you make a YouTube video out of it. And it's like, it's so. It's so it changes everything right when you have that. But it's so slow to get it first. So I remember this was the thing in client ascension, like when we first started it. I remember having this conversation with you guys where I was like, when do we start, like, getting people on interviews? Like, what is the specific number of success with which we should start pushing that out? Because There was at 1.0 social proof for client ascension. There was just none. Like, everyone starts from zero. Client ascension started from zero and now it's like an absurd amount, right? It go. It goes. It goes way, way faster when you get the first one, the speed with which you acquire them increases over and over for every incremental one. And it's. It's actually insane when you think about, oh, maybe there. Maybe there isn't a difference between having like five pieces of social proof and 10, but there actually is. There's like, There's. There's no end to it. I was talking to someone and they were telling me, I think they did some copy for Taylor Welch or something like that. He said, the best converting landing page of all time. This might have been you, Oliver. I'm not sure if it was or is, Eric, but he was saying the best converting sales page they ever made was just an absolute endless scroll of testimonials for. It's just scroll, testimonials, button, scroll, testimonials, buttons, scroll, testimonials. But the more and more you get, the easier and easier it is.

I think I bought that it was like a $97 product. It's like, where the fuck is the checkout?

I think it's super interesting, too, because like you were saying, there is a difference between 5 and 10 and even 5 and 6. Because what people really buy are stories that they can relate to. And every story is unique in some way, whether it's. They have the same offer, they grew up in the same hometown, they're the same age, they have the same interest, they have the same business structure in terms of partners or past experiences, whatever it is. People hear stories, they relate to them, and that's what drives.

I feel like we've. I feel like we've heard new students say, like, I was monitoring you guys for a while, and then I got that one case study screenshot that put.

Me over the edge.

Right.

Dan, you could talk about that because recently you put in our sales team chat like you were pushing the closers. Like, we have one of our guys back there, Pete, on the sales team. And one of the things that you do really well is you push them to watch the success stories. Not to learn and improve that it actually works, but to learn the stories so that they can use them on the sales calls. Because stories sell.

Yeah. And that's specifically to help you when the offer gets a bit more commoditized. So when you're storytelling, when. Objection. Handling. It's always going to work better because it's going to put the prospect in a spot where they're thinking like, oh, if he could do it, there's no reason I couldn't. For example, if you're nervous and you have to talk to your partner. And I was like going through all like the typical sales bullshit, which works, by the way. But he's still like, I really need to talk to my partner, right. He's on the fence, he's a little bit cheaper than I am, blah, blah, blah. I could say, you know, who you remind me of and then tell them a story of somebody who had the exact same concern. They ended up making a leap of faith and this is how it changed your life.

Right.

That's way more powerful. Like, for example, just stories in general are so, so much better than just giving them a straight up pitch. So that's why I make them watch these different student testimonials because whenever you can incorporate that, it's going to be better than just following up an email and just putting a screenshot of a win and saying like, oh, here you go. So let's say I'm selling life insurance, right? And I was just at like a Patrick Beth David event and he was using this exact example. And I'm trying to explain final expense insurance, meaning when you die, there's a certain amount set aside for your kids, whoever, who are going to do the funeral. Right. And he was saying he was having some trouble selling this. And it wasn't until he heard a story about somebody who died. And this was a very close family, they didn't have final expense insurance and it ruined the relationship with the kids. Right. So the next time he started selling it, he asked the mom about the kids. So I got it pretty close. Had like two sons, very close. You want them to remain close. Yeah. So actually the number one reason why siblings grow apart after the death of a family member is arguing over funds for the funeral. Right. So just that story and knowing that is way more powerful than anything you could say about like, hey, you know, this is the best. This has the best coverage. This, that and the other.

Right.

That's kind of like what, like you're anchoring the offer in that.

Exactly. Same exact thing.

Yeah.

So if like we're talking about success story with somebody who has a video focused offer and I'm talking about Scott and I was like, you know, we got Scott out of the worst state in the world, right?

To Florida, Minneapolis, Tumbleweeds.

It's got, you know, 10X's business. Yeah, he's 10X's business sense. But he's. I know he's a big car guy, right? So when he finally gets the Lambo or the Range Rover or whatever, that's inevitable for him. Next. And I tell the story about him overcoming this fear because he had to put the first down payment on a couple different credit cards to eventually move from Minnesota to Tampa and drive the huracan that he's now currently driving in, just like that story is going to sell them way better than, you know, a fucking one, two punch cold email.

Right? Like, I heard you were like 40, 45 minutes of objection handling Scott from. From Jay.

Yeah, but. But if somebody's like that and Jay's tired, right? He's like 40, 45 minutes in. You know what he could say? You know who you remind me of?

Yeah.

This guy Scott. Like, we're 20 minutes into objection handling, and we went 45 with him, so he still got another 25 minutes. My calendar is open. But this is what ended up happening. This is why he joined. He realized if he did these certain deliverables, success was inevitable. This is where he's at now.

So same thing real quick, before we continue, I just want to get, like, a temperature check. Is this useful? Is this relevant to where you guys are at? Like, just raise your hand or even shout out a topic, a question, something.

Yeah, Talk about product, bro.

Product.

Yeah.

Ooh, don't get me excited, bro. Look at Joey right here. I'm looking right at Joey. This my guy. Product.

Can you. Can you talk about customer experience?

Yeah, yeah.

And how it relates to Churn?

Yeah, I mean, it's everything. I mean, think about all the conversation we've been having since yesterday with Oscar and with. I mean, I was just looking at Oscar, but everyone. Literally the reason I bring up Joey is so interesting. I put out a tweet about this. So actually, earlier this week, we interviewed J.K. molina, who a lot of you guys know from the Twitter space, and he went through the tweet Hunter exit, which a lot of you guys saw kind of happen in real time. And he was the first one to tell you that he regrets how that played out. And the reason he knows that it didn't live up to its full potential is because he focused on marketing and not product. And so a lot of the conversations so far this week with you guys who are here now have been about how client ascension is so much different than every coaching program I've been in. You guys actually care. You're always innovating. You're adding Bible study, you're adding zapier concierge. Like, how is that all happening? Why does that work? It's because we have a marketer, like, as in Daniel, who can market all day long, and then Product as in myself. And then we obviously have Dan who does sales, and Christian, that does basically everything. And that's why it works, is because we can focus on marketing and product at the same time, all in better than anyone else in both realms. And so, I mean, product is everything. You guys probably heard Alex Hormozi, who some of you might know.

Who's that?

He's this one weird.

My dad. Yeah, it's actually Daniel's dad.

But yeah. So he was on the Andy For Sale podcast, and they're talking about marketing and how the best form of marketing is word of mouth. And I never understood that. Right. It just sounds like a nice fantasy. It's like word of mouth, like, whatever, okay, cool. I'm gonna spend another hundred dollars on ads and watch all these new customers roll into the business. Because you could see it, right? You could see the roi, you could look at the numbers, High roast, whatever. You can't see word of mouth. Or at least not for the first couple of years, but now, like, look at this room, right? It's all word of mouth. When I went to the Default Kings event, it was all word of mouth. I didn't even have to introduce myself to some of the guys there because you guys already told them about me. And that's word of mouth marketing. There's so much power in that. And that all comes from product. And what builds good product. I'm going on a rant now, and I said, daniel's going to go on a rant, but what builds good product is just talking to your customers. And we were just sitting over there eating. And who was it? Marcos. Where's Marcos? You were like, yo, where's the fitness channel Incline Ascension? I'm like, you know what? We don't got one. But next week, open Slack, and I bet you will have one. And that's how Zapier concierge happened. That's how Bible study with Jennings happened. You sent me a text like a year ago, we should do Bible study. Boom, implemented. And so it's nothing with me like predicting this great product and building it behind the scenes. It's just talking to you guys, what do you want? And then going out and finding who can provide this better than anyone else. And then, boom, it's in the community. And that's really product.

Think about the picture. One thing in your head that your favorite part of client ascension, that probably was not something that was involved in the original product. It's been added over time.

Like, something else to note with this is say, you're you're talking to a bunch of prospects and maybe you're getting, oh, this is too expensive, or you're getting this and this and this. There's no situation in which you go email all of the last 15, 20 cold email leads you got on the phone with or whatever, or who responded to your cold email positively in any form. And you ask them, hey, so we had a conversation a while back. You didn't end up buying what do you want to buy? Because we talked about done for you cold email like this. And like, you kind of let me know that, that, that isn't really going to work out for you. So how. What would be a good structure for a deal between us that, that, that would work out for you. And you just ask them, right? And I was kind of talking with Matt Lucero about this, where it's like, oh, yeah, some of the people, it just really doesn't work for them. And I go and I say, well, what would probably work for a lot of them is if you just set it up for them. You go buy the domains, you connect it, you get the leads, you write the script for them. Here you go, here's the system. And I can give you a couple consulting calls on the back end. You have to sell people in the form by which they want it. And a really good example of this was Eddie and Brady, who do TikTok ads. And they were pitching me TikTok ads, and I'm like, yes, I want to do TikTok ads. But I didn't want. Part of their offer was, I'm going to manage the ad account. And I'm just. This is like a psychological thing with certain prospects. Some people just want to have more control. And I specifically want to have more control. And there's many other people like me. I did not want them to control the ad account. All I wanted was the grunt work pieced out. So I wanted them to script the ads and I wanted them to edit the ads and that's it. And I just wanted that. And then I wanted to play with, with the ads manager. I wanted control over. I wanted to learn how to do it. How should I structure it if it starts working, how do I scale it? Like, how do I set up this, the ad sets? Like, I just wanted it like that. So it becomes like a hybrid done for you and done with you. And you have to be asking people, what is it that. That you want to buy? Because a lot of people, they make this box, this like, arbitrary box that, that is created out of nothing. And they try to force all of the prospects into it as opposed to morphing the box around what the prospects want.

There's too many people.

You try to force people into the box when it's the prospect that makes the box and you have no idea what the box is until you've talked to many people and they start to ask the same things over and over again. And it is only at that point you do you have something that's productized. You can't just make it up.

This dude spitting. No, it's super true because like take cold email lead generation as an offer, for example. One thing that I noticed is we switched away from doing like pay per call, went straight to retainer, which for commoditized offers it's not easy. If you said like, hey, we can get you 10 calls a month or we can get you 15 calls a month or 20 calls a month, I quickly realized that the offer was so saturated that there was always somebody that was going to be able to offer it for less or promise bigger results whether they could hit it or not. Right? So what started working way better for me was when I be like, hey, like in an ideal scenario, on top of what you're already bringing in because you guys are seeing a couple of clients come in through inbound, how many more clients could you realistically take on per month without pulling your hair out on the fulfillment side or needing to make any more highs?

Right?

So I'm asking that intentionally in a way where they're going to tamper their expectations a little bit. But what they most commonly say is like, yeah, like another client or two per month, right? But then I got them right there. Because now every single other agency saying like, hey, I can do 10 calls, I can do 15 calls, I could do 20, I could do fucking 50. There's this one guy on Facebook or Instagram who's like, what if I came into your base service based business and booked you 1100 sales calls in the next 30 days?

11,000. It's ridiculous.

It's ridiculous.

I'd be. That I'd be in the hospital.

Exactly. But now when I'm pitching him, I can just do my best to relate everything back to the one or two clients that he asked for. And then it's just a matter of me trying my best not to let him off the phone and he's going to close. Not because we're offering more calls or a better price per call, but simply because I'm giving him what he specifically stated he Wanted and then just not letting him go. Just be like, yep. Do you have a hard stop at 10:30? No, me neither. Free for the next three hours and slacking it in there. But exactly. If you can frame it in their terms and not just like your offer that you have written down on your website or in your Google Docs, it's always going to work better.

Another good example of this was again, I was talking to Eddie and Brady and they were making this new TikTok program, whatever. They help people with organic. It's like a coaching product. And they're going, what should we make the guarantee? And they have hella, hella inbound. So they had a bunch of calls lined up and I go, all right, well the next person you talk to, just ask them what you want, guaranteed. That's it. I'm like, yeah, just ask them. So they go, they told me they come back. And they go, yeah. So we, we closed them and when we asked him what he wanted as the guarantee, he said 100,000 views. And off 100,000 views, off 90 videos. It's extremely difficult to not hit because some people really just want the bare minimum like that. Oh, I want one client a month. Okay, that's fine. So a guarantee is like a trade where it's like, tell me what you want. I want this. Like, okay, well, in order for me to guarantee you this, I want you to do this deal. Deal. And that's like pretty much what it is. You have to ask, like there's too many. You kind of come up with these guarantee numbers or these claim numbers and not even knowing what it is exactly they want. So it's like if I, if I get on a call with you and your offer review, I, I, I have to guess. But I tell you, like, ask and see, see what they're saying. Because whatever they're saying, that is what your claim is going to be and you're going to morph it like that. It's so everything is iterative. Like whatever you make now is not what it's going to be later on. And the, the best way I can explain this was I did, I think it was like 150 plus split tests on, on, on our headline for our. Because we have an opt in page. It's like, oh, this is a really easy way to test this. Like, which, get, which headline gets a higher opt in. Right? It wasn't testing anything else. The whole design, everything was the same. And I just, every, and you got, I remember documenting this and I would tell you guys where it's like, I'm doing this one. No, that one didn't win. This one didn't win. This one won. And just. Even when I found one that won and just make another one anyway and just keep going and going and going and going until I found the one that exists now. And. And I remember we were sitting at like, the opt in rate was like, I don't know, like 8% for a while. And I changed it to that. It was just like straight to 15. And I was like, yeah, that's the one right there.

Anybody here watch true detective season one? You know, like the. The meme of McConaughey just, like, smoking a thing super hard. That was him in his apartment, like, every week to come over. He's like, I can't beat the control.

Fucking control.

So it can't be it.

What was the headline that got the double the opt in rate?

I don't know. Let me pull it up.

That was the worst. We had a lot. You had. You tested a lot that had people coming to us thinking that we were done for you. Legion Agency.

Yeah, not like that.

I know.

Scott joined Telegram. Congrats, Scott.

All right, so it says how, how, how? We build client acquisition systems for marketing agencies, consultants, and B2B companies. Scale them to 10k to 50k profit in 6 months or less. Now we refund you in full if it doesn't work without spending tens of thousands of ads plastering your face all over the Internet, without needing to hire outside agencies to make your business actually work. Watch free training video. Opt in. Buy my shit.

I think that without plastering your face everywhere on the Internet speaks to a lot of people. Especially, like, if you're in the beginning, you're kind of nervous.

You're like.

Like, that's why cold email is so attractive. Like, I don't need to spend anything on ads. I can just.

Yeah, and then, like, you do for a little bit, I'm like, all right, it's time to stop being a pussy. Go to YouTube.

You don't tell them that after they join.

All right.

Should we do some Q and A?

Yeah.

I just texted the cigar bar and so we'll be a little late. So we're good?

I think they can wait. We're good. Just making sure. All right, so we had questions from Slack, but obviously since you guys made it here in person, you're going to get priority. So where's Cam at? Cam in the back is going to be our microphone assistant. And so whoever has a question, if it's for any of us specifically, just let us know. Otherwise we'll all kind of riff and try to give you the best answer we can. But basically treat this like a live coaching call with us four and if anyone from the audience has even something to add, like there's a lot of smart people in this room. Like I see myself on the same playing level as all of you guys and I know I can learn as much as you guys can learn from me as I can from you. And so I want to make this more like a mastermind than just us speaking. And so let's get some questions going. I think Presley, what is he gonna say?

Swag.

Everybody else. Hold it. We're going rapid here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So something that I've been thinking about a lot. We've made some hires recently just creating incentives for employees like beyond like, oh, we're pay you xyz, right?

Or this.

And actually building that culture that you guys have managed to of create within client ascension, within the coaches and like actually having people show up to calls and stuff with 110% energy and not just like I'm here out of obligation. So how do you transfer that for, you know, that energy to employees and say like, okay, you know, just shifting someone's mindset from like I'm going to show up here and just like do my deliverables and like fuck off rather than like, as opposed to like I'm going to do here and like really go above and beyond and just like beyond like I'm going to pay you XYZ on month. Like how have you been able to build that culture within the company?

I think this one's kind of aimed at me, right?

Yeah, that one's for you.

I was looking at you. I'm like looking around guys. That's a great question, bro. And this has been super relevant recently. Scott and I had a conversation about this a couple of weeks ago. You actually, I think were in my DMs recently with a similar question and I think the biggest, the biggest determination for agency growth past a certain point, like everyone can put their head down and grind out till 10, maybe 50k, 100k, whatever. But to really build an agency, like take a step back and think about what an agency actually is. It's a business, right? And I feel like a lot of guys in our space specifically for whatever reason were trained or were under this thought process that when you hire someone it's transactional, right? Think about short form content. You hire an editor. Yeah, short form content this is like a buzzword now. But think about short form content, right? Like, you probably have editors and a lot of guys that are running agencies, they're very transactional with it. They're like, why isn't my editor so excited to be a part of this company? Well, you're paying them $30, you're getting a clip and that's it. It's just purely transactional. And if you're gonna build a transactional relationship, you're not gonna get the buy in that you get from like you see in client ascension. And so you have to go, you have to make the jump from, I'm just gonna go find people like on fiverr to pay $30. And this is how you start, don't get me wrong, like, this is where you need to start. But you have to now make that jump. And when I say you like you specifically as the business owner. And this is why inclined ascension. Now instead of mindset talk, which is the woo woo shit, we changed it to executive leadership. Like think about those two words, Executive leadership. Like you need to go from agency owner to executive leader. And like, those are strong words that carries a lot of weight. And what that means is you're not just paying someone $30 to edit some clips together. It's like you're building leaders within your organization. And how do you do that? Well, first, like we've been talking about, have a good product. Nobody wants to be a part of a company that's not doing good work. It doesn't feel good, right? Like Dylan, you're part of client ascension. Dylan runs the appointment setting call every Tuesday. And like you've seen, you were actually a student client ascension. So like, that's nice, right? Because you get to see like the benefit and the impact and as a student and now as a coach. And so you can see like you're, you're part of something good, right? And being at the events just amplifies that a whole lot. But first and foremost, they have to see the vision, they have to see the positive impact that what they're doing is having on the customers, the clients, the students. That's number one, I would say number two is you have to be the example. And so one of the things that I've started to push a lot is accountability as an executive leader. And so to get people to show up, you have to show up, right? So the biggest question recently is like, especially with Dan, right? Oh, how do I get my sales guys, they have such a big ego. They won't fill out the end of day type form. Right? The fucking end of day type form. They're not going to fill it out. Dylan's over there, he's guilty of this, right? And so I'm like, okay, that's fine. Are you filling out an end of day type form? Not actually filling out an end of day type form, but are you checking in with your team and updating them every single day like. Like they are to you? No. So why do you expect them to? It starts with you and it trickles down after the fact. And so you have to. You have to go from agency owner, freelancer, college student, whatever you. You have, you know, as your identity now to executive leader. And that comes with a lot of experience. That comes with stepping out of your comfort zone. It comes with having very uncomfortable, difficult conversations. Right? It's all of that. But once you do it, you get to build something great and you get to expand your impact by 10x.

Kind of the same concept of if. If you're.

If you're in a room and you're.

Like, well, why is no one, like, coming up and talking to me? It's like, well, why are you not going up and talking to other people? It's like the same thing. And also, I'd probably add in, like, public praise where it's like, for instance, maybe one of your editors edited that video of Alex Hayden that went viral, where it's like, maybe you should go on Twitter and be like, shout out this guy.

Yeah.

Who works with me, who made this. Like, he knows what he's talking to. Public praise. See what I mean?

Put your people on.

I also think just treating them as like a, A friend and getting to know them instead of just like, here's your paycheck. Like, yeah, at my. At our agency, like, Louis, our project manager, like, turned 21 in the UK and he had like a. He went out with his friends. I text him on Monday, like, how you feeling, bro? You banged up? He's like, yeah, I feel like shit. I'm like, yeah. I imagine, like, just getting a personal connection built with them instead of just like, yo, here's the. Your paycheck and how's this client doing? Right? Or I think Dan can speak really volumes to this. With, with the sales team, we have like a competition in the sales chat that gets pretty competitive. We put, like, odds on it.

Yeah. I mean, he took a little shot at the sales team, but we're over a 40 close rate this month, so.

The team's buzzing higher than their type form submission rate.

Yeah, actually, Actually. But we backtracked it all. We got the numbers updated. You know what? But. But it is something where it's. Dude, it's just not fun if you don't, like, if you don't make it fun and, like, get to know your people as people, you're just gonna enjoy life less. They're gonna enjoy life less. Like, I was talking to Peter because Peter is our boy that me and Andre grew up with. Newest member of the sales team. He's crushing it this month. He's probably gonna lose a sales competition, but only by like, 800. Right. So he's right up there at the top of our team right now. And we were just talking about the difference between, like, our job versus a regular 9 to 5 and just pointing out the fact it really doesn't feel like work. And it's because we don't make a transaction. I check in with the guys, I ask them, you know, how their week is going. I genuinely give a shit. Like, with Antwan on the setter calls, the last, like, four calls, we've started it. Talking about the Cavaliers. Rest in peace. Like, today, he was. He was pretty sad about it. But, like, I'm treating them as people. I'm not saying, like, hey, you're my video editor. Here's the $30. Like, I'm not going to speak to you again until you know the next page. We're working together. Yeah. And another thing, exactly like you said, you have to show up. You have to do it first, and you have to not only, you know, do what you're expecting of them, you have to do a lot more. That's what I realized. Also, going to that leadership event with Patrick by David that I mentioned is like, this guy is so dialed in on everything, and it led him to a nine figure exit. So that means if. If I'm expecting them to check in with me once a day, I have to check in with them five times a day, ten times a day. Because at the end of the day, it's my company, not theirs. And you have to realize and come to grips with the fact, like, hey, this is just an employee, and this is just their job. Like, it's not their company. They're not going to care about it as much as you will, and they shouldn't. So, like, a lot of people will be like, damn, why don't they care this much? You know, if we lost this deal, I'm pissed. Like, why don't they care as much as me? I. I used to think through that lens. And I was like, oh, it's not their company. Like, why? Why would they care that much? It's such, like, an unreasonable expectation to have.

Yeah.

So you don't just have to lead by example. You have to do, you know, 10x.

I think a really technical answer as well, is like, structuring their pay based on retention. So, like, they get a percentage of the client's retainer every month, and they're incentivized to keep the client on with good work. And then after a certain point in the retention, you bump up their percentage, like, from 3 to 5% of the retainer based on how long they're there.

Figure out the outcome you want, and incentivize their pay based on that. It's like, it's so simple for sales because it's like, you close a deal, you get paid. You don't close a deal, you don't get paid. I don't care how much you work. You could work 2 hours or 20 hours. Doesn't matter. And so that's what you should think of. The last thing I'll say, because I want to get a bunch of questions in here, is it goes back to just doing things that don't scale. Right. And that's pouring into your people. Right. I might have a packed calendar with a bunch of things going on today, and it's. What do I prioritize? Well, one of my guys just messaged me that they need help with something, whether it's in their personal life. It doesn't have to be about business. Right. They hit me up. I prioritize them. I didn't plan to do that. I know doing that every single day is not going to scale my business, but it's pouring into your people that really makes such a difference, and I think that's what creates culture. We're so early in the client ascension. We really are. It seems like we've come so far, but, like, we're so early into this company, and so I still have a lot to learn, but I think. I think that's what builds culture. Another question. Love you, bro. Jeremy. Yeah. All right. This guy can't catch, but he's. He's actual genius.

Yeah. Talk about smartest person in the room.

Last brain cell is on this last leg. I don't know what they're talking about. So one of the guys I hired as a consultant recently had a huge exit. Just casually out competed China on price, selling a commodity product in the early 2000s. So imagine this is the business you take over the Price you have to buy this crappy commodity product is higher than what the market wants to pay for it. And you have to beat China on price selling junk in the early 2000s, and then make a business out of this. This guy, within four years is making tens of millions and builds the largest right now encoder manufacturer in all of North America. They still use his system, right? So one of the problems he had was in production, nobody gave a shit. They weren't motivated, they didn't want to do their job. They came in, they checked, they clocked in, they left, right? And he couldn't find middle managers that were good enough that would actually get the team to do what he needed them to do. The product quality sucked, all this stuff, right? So to their point, you align incentives. But his problem was, how do I align incentives? Like, it's really hard for me to quantify this and actually tie it to a metric. And so what he did was he actually built a whole system to quantify value contribution in production. Just basically like, how much did I make and what was the profit of what I made? And then what he did was he literally, at the end of every day in production, the employees all knew what their bonuses were for the day, and he actually fired all of his middle managers. All of them. He did not need managers. They worked harder, so much harder and so much better. Took full accountability that he took his labor to profit ratio. I forget what the fuck the metric was 4% to 27%. And he, he beat every competitor so thoroughly on how efficient he was with this team that he literally put Chinese companies out of business on efficiency and cheapness that he could charge. So, like, actually, so, like, one solution is, okay, hey, you hire people that are accountable, you don't have to hold them accountable. They hold themselves accountable. And Hormozi had a good one on this. He's like, I'm hiring my executive assistant. Okay, how do I hire this person? Okay, you tell me how you're gonna make my life better. Like, I don't give you. I don't. I don't give you the job description. Okay, here's my wife, you're my executive assistant. How are you gonna do it? How are you gonna hold yourself accountable and do this right? And so, like, one of the things I did with some of the VAs I was hired is I literally, I test them, right? I give them, hey, you can do these, these things. And I'm watching. Like, I let them think I'm not actually measuring. And I don't, you Know, I'm going to give you a little room, give you an inch, do you take a mile? And so then I filtered out the people that wouldn't hold themselves accountable inherently. And I don't have to manage them, right? Because like, ideal scenario, right? You scale, you don't need to micromanage, you don't need. Meetings are such a huge, like, all the enterprises I studied where I'm like, your profit margins are awesome. Like, how did you do this? They're like, we don't need meetings, we don't need a ma. And so like, I think company sizes, it's different too. Like, I think as you scale enterprise, it needs to be more data driven of like, okay, what is the. What we can't measure all the KPIs. Like, this company's too big. There's too much to measure. Like, what are the main value drivers that I can tie? Incentives. And, and the other thing is like motivation. Like, what motivates this person? So, like me, one of the guys, I built a ROI calculator for him today. He's my buddy who does consulting for equity deals with home services companies. And he, I did this for him for free. But he gave me the like, MBA, whatever CEO training that he was $150,000 in value to me. I don't give, I'm, I don't fucking care if you, I don't care to bill you three grand for this. That was worth its weight in gold to me. What motivates me is education. I want skills. I don't give a fuck about profits right now. If you can give me, if you can teach me something that is valuable, that will give me a skill, I don't need your money. I will pay you. At the same time, there's a guy I worked with, genius engineer, right? His motivation was, I want a problem to solve. I want a really cool problem. I want a challenge, like a very interesting problem to solve. And he didn't care about money. He didn't. I don't need to incentivize him with money. But if I, if I ask him, okay, look, this is this part of the company, we've got this problem. This is this part of the company, we have this problem in this part of the company. This, this problem which is most exciting to you to solve, he's going to attack the shit out of that thing. You don't have to, you don't have to have. You don't have to incentivize them at all. There's that, that's pure Margin, right? And then there, I think there are people that very much are motivated by family and. And, you know, the connection, right? It's like you see a lot of corporations and actually I went to a master quest on this with, like, HR directors and stuff, and they. They talk about, like, building this sort of sense of reciprocity and community. And some people respond really well to that of, like, you know, we're one big family. Some people, they're like, this is a business. Fuck off.

Right?

We're not family. You're not my friend.

Right?

And incentivize them with money. Great. Okay, fine. But some people, if you actually spend the time with them and ask them, like, how you're doing, whatever, they're going to work 50, 50% harder that entire week just because you literally asked them that one question for 30 minutes. Like, that's ROI. So I think. I think A, figure out what actually is the motivator so you can incentivize them. B, like, how do you actually. Oh, and the competitiveness, right? So sales teams are huge on this, right? Like scorecarding, where. Oh, my gosh, they're gonna act like CEOs because they want to be. They want to sell more than this guy, right? And so then if you. If you make a public scoreboard, like, this is one thing sales teams figured out really well. Great. Last thing. And then I'll shut up. Actually giving a small. So this is big into, like, startups, like, executives, they'll give them a small stake of equity.

And.

And just because they have that ownership, we value the things that we own. And so if we say, okay, this is my company, like, you know, you can't always do this, right? They are an employee sometimes, but sometimes you can make them an owner. And, you know, what's 1% of equity if now he thinks like an owner, right? And so one of the companies I saw that scaled like crazy, book in a box or author box, whatever, they did this. Every. Every employee was an owner. And when I saw that team, that culture was nuts. Like, the level of ownership every single one of those employees took and did extra constantly blew my mind.

So, yeah, that's.

Hopefully that was helpful.

Master class. We got, like, at least an hour left. That was just one question. Imagine all of you guys have a question.

How quickly can we get the recording of Insane?

Yeah, yeah, he'll be up.

No, no, no. Fake one. Do you have an actual question?

I did, but you guys started touching on it.

I was gonna ask each of you individually, this is more of a Personality thing than. Don't go there coaching from a master class.

Please don't.

Don't go where?

Morning routine.

What?

Morning.

No, I was not gonna make that smart out. For the record, I made a comment to Andre earlier tonight that somebody had asked at the November or October event, like, hey, what's your morning routine? To the copywriting panel. I'm like, guys, like, have you not watched any hormozy, like your morning routine, like, wake up and do the work. I think the answer was caffeine and nicotine, which.

Great answer, by the way right now.

No.

I was going to go in a different direction. Andre, you talked about things that aren't scalable. Each of you individually, what is the thing you do that is the highest value, that is the least scalable?

That's a good one. I call not going.

First one calls.

Yeah. Sales calls for me.

Yes, It's. I know you were saying earlier, Dan. We were like, oh, whip the sales team up in shape. But we also changed the offer where we put back in one on ones with me.

Yeah.

So it was both 100% was. But it's like if. If you have to think, like, how many people have joined some. Some kind of thing. And like, you. You joined it because you like the guru, I guess you could say. And then like, you never talk to the guy ever. It's kind of like. Like we did with Cole Gordon's. I mean, like, I like him a lot, but I just. I've never spoken to Cole Gordon ever, even though we paid him a lot of money, which is so interesting to me. But imagine if there was.

Well, he has group coaching calls. I. I guess the. The pitch itself, if you actually watch the call recordings, which I know you don't, it didn't change that much.

Right.

It is another thing that's valuable. It's just a nice, like, succinct part of the pitch. And what I mean by that is Andre is so product obsessed that we did all these different things, right? He's like, all right, Executive leadership coaching zapier concierge. All right, we're going to do this. We're going to give him this many free contacts. We're going to do this on the software side. And it's just like all this different shit. And it got to a point where the salespeople's pitch was like 10 minutes. And I'm just like. Just like. It's all this stuff that's not relevant. Whereas if you can kind of like move. I mean, not to rip Jordan Bell for Chip, but like in a straight line and just explain the sequence in which things happen and just focus on like actually pitching and realizing, hey, it's okay to not dive into detail as long as you're speaking to that person's issue into their box or whatever you said earlier, it's going to work better. So it's a number of different things. And honestly at this point I forgot what the question was.

I'm just, what's the, the thing that's.

Unscalable but most valuable?

Oh, yeah. So for me it was in the beginning it was just sales calls because we got to a point where like when I dove into being like a sales manager and like finally remove myself from that process, I did it for like two weeks and I was like, dude, I suck at this. Like, I'm so bad at knowing what to look at and understanding how to lead a team and all this stuff. And that's why like, similar to you guys is like, oh, if I could just pay somebody for this knowledge, it'd be a lot easier. That's why we invested in coal stuff. That's why I went to PBD's event. So yeah, for me it was just like, I knew being on sales calls was valuable because my closure was super high, but it just wasn't scalable. When you're having, you know, 15, 20, 25 calls a day.

Yeah, I think it's similar. For me, it's just spending time with people. Like when you have a coaching program with 300 some people, which again is small. Like I was getting out earlier, like a year from now might be a thousand, three thousand. You can't really. I know, scary. Keeps me up at night.

No.

Gets me excited. But you can't realistically spend quality time with every single person in the program. You just can't. Like, it's impossible. So for me it's like when I get into the flow of like, okay, I have 20 DMS, I'm just gonna rip audio notes to five of them rather than the other 15 so that the five get the real value. I think the biggest thing that I learned is instead of just trying to get everything done, focus on how much I can get done while still giving it the standard that I want to live by. So if there's 20 DMS and I only can get to five of them because I'm pouring in with a five minute audio note and I have to get to the other 15 tomorrow or the next day, like, I'm okay with that because I know that the five That I got the five minute loom video or the audio note are going to be so much more impacted than if I were to just answer them quickly and you know, go to the next one. And the other 15 would eventually get that too. So it's just pouring in a lot more than logistically makes sense.

Yeah. I would say similarly for me is writing cold emails and figuring out how to use AI to make them better. Like today I sat. Go ahead.

And I kind of wanted to push back on Dan too. You can, that's something you can hire and train for. Both of you gave answers.

Yeah, but it's, it's, it's like you could hire and train someone to, to.

Well, it's kind of do it, but.

It'S, it's the, it's just the concept that it's. You like. Yeah, I mean I could hire some other person to get on one on one calls to do the offers, but it's like, it's just like what matters is the fact that it was me specifically. You see what I mean? It's totally unscalable, but it matters so much.

And the reason why I said it was, you know, because you're asking us this question. I'm just thinking like dollar amount. Okay. So every time I took a call, we made this much money. But then when we got in the Kohl's group, I was talking to him about like sales process and he had like a caveat. He was like, like, I haven't taken a sales call in like three years. And I was like, oh shit. And he was like breaking down what the org chart looked like. And he was basically, they have like three, four sales managers that report to one main guy who leads a sales operation that reports to him. So that's why I was like, okay, this is highly leveraged. But like me taking all the calls isn't scalable.

Yeah, right.

So that's, that's why I gave that answer. If that makes more sense going back.

Like, I would rather, I don't feel confident to outsource a one on one call with a student to somebody else because I want to be the one that's there helping them and giving my advice and expertise. And then I spent like two hours today with an AI prompt trying to figure out how to like train it to write a cold email for me. And I was like getting super pissed off. I'm like, this is VA level work. Because then the output was like in the spreadsheet and the format wasn't correct. So I'm like, How do I, how do I format this with AI to make it? I'm like, this is something.

I thought you said you're good at spreadsheets.

No, I'm probably the worst spreadsheet operator you've ever seen. I have an accountant.

They saw me on Zoom the other day.

Yeah, but that's a great question, bro. Just, yeah, figuring out helping people with cold email scripts and then figuring out how to optimize it with AI. Like, where's John?

Where's who?

John Prince.

I don't.

Of course he's old, one person out of his chair. But he saw me at like the coffee shop today. I was like tinkering with AI for like two hours, getting so pissed off. But that's just like the, the unscalable things that make you scale, if that makes sense.

Good stuff. Matt Lucero in the back.

Awesome.

Appreciate you guys. Just like an open ended question, honestly, so you guys can just spit. But like a lot of guys here in the game a little bit we've been in, you know, varying levels and you guys are more so I'd say veterans compared to a lot of us. What's something that you wish you just like, started earlier? Like, you know, you could go back two, three years. You all, you have all this experience, you just started making some money. Like, what's one leverage point that you wish you just like started as soon as possible? That would have like changed the trajectory of like where you are now.

Damn YouTube. I know you're doing YouTube right now, but like it's, it's. If you were to compare the different social medias. Twitter is fast to work, but it doesn't scale hard. YouTube is slow to work, but it scales so wildly hard, bro. And you don't even need that much traffic. So I mean, I could see other people running things that are kind of related to client essential. Maybe they have like 20, 30k subscribers or something like that. Maybe that. And they'll be hitting like 600k months or something like that. And it's like, dude, if I had just started YouTube like six months earlier, like I'd be there. And it's, it's just this concept around it where if you, if you make a video, it just indexes and shows up on people's feeds forever for the like, literally the rest of time. If you actually scroll through your YouTube, you will get suggested videos from three years ago. In four years. I get suggested Sam Oven's videos from four years ago, four and a half years ago. And it's like dude, he made that four years ago. And now if I make a tweet, none of my tweets longer than like 3 days ago are going to show up ever. Like, absolutely ever. So it's kind of this concept of it just continuously stacks over and over and over again. And there's this other concept around. Somebody needs to be exposed to you to 10 hours for 10 hours to know, like, and trust you and convert on your products. And if you think about how much time someone sees a tweet from you, how much. How much forward did that move them? Like 18 seconds. One YouTube video, that's an hour moves them 10% of the whole thing. So what if you have a thousand hours of view on YouTube? It's so. It's just so much force that is autonomously operating completely for free. It's so absurd when you really look at it. And all the people, like, all the guys in our space, whatever, maybe like online marketing, Internet marketing, whatever, all of the guys who are hyper massive are either spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on ads or they're on YouTube. That's it. It's just those two. So which do you want to do? Do you want to make YouTube videos for extremely low capital expenditure for three consecutive years, or do you want to spend $100,000 a month right now? Because I know which one I'm gonna take.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's so interesting because it goes back to what I was saying earlier is like, marketer product, right? So, like, my answer was, I don't think we spent enough time on product. But I had the luxury of having someone that could go all in on marketing at the same time. And so it's almost like one way to go with this is find a business partner. There's a lot of these duos out there, like Gabe and Joey. You guys have the sales and marketing and then the ops, and then Nick and. Oh, my God, I'm blanking on his. On Walker. Yeah, marketing ops. Right. And so they have guys that can focus on both realms at the same time and go all in and crush it. Why are you. What are you saying?

Where's Nick?

Oh, I don't know. That might be a problem. But yeah, like, for me, I think the biggest. The biggest mistake. And it's not even a mistake. Like, I've honestly, like, I don't regret it because I ended up here. And if I didn't do what I did to get here, I wouldn't have been here. And Jennings, you've helped me with this a ton when going into, like, the religious stuff. But anyways, I think if I were to go back and, you know, talk to you specifically, Matt is like, have a little bit more patience with the process, because I think it's so easy to hear numbers like 100k, 200k, 50k, and be like, I need that tomorrow. Like, I need to force it, like, asap. Like, dude, chill out. Like, enjoy the process. Follow the steps. Show up every day. Like, do the boring stuff, inputs over outputs, and you'll get there eventually. It's gonna happen. There's no way it doesn't happen if you. If you follow the steps. I think the problems and the delays actually in the process are when you try to take the shortcuts. And it's so. It's so easy to take the shortcuts because you're surrounded by so much fomo. I did that so many times, and Christian was right there with me when we were doing the podcast. I mean, I've been in entrepreneurship.

Frustrating.

I've been in entrepreneurship since, like, I was 16, dude, and I didn't make a single dollar until, like, two, three years ago. And it's because I kept taking shortcuts, and the shortcuts that I thought would get me to success faster actually delayed my success a lot further.

I actually met Andre through a forex scheme.

So supposed to.

I'm sorry, Andre, can I build on what you said?

Please, Please?

So, Andre, you talked about force, and you talked about forcing the process. And I know it's Dan's favorite word. And if we, like, established a client ascension drinking game, I feel like that'd have to be like, do a shot every time Dan says force. And I know the way Dan means the word, but you brought this up from a spiritual perspective. So there's a non Christian book called Power vs Force. I think it's Daniel Hawkins, David Hawkins. And it really ties into this. And I agree, like, my results in the past year have been ridiculous, but it came when I stopped trying to force it. And there is a energy shift in you in the sales process, in the marketing process, in the fulfillment process that is palpable to your clients when you start doing the work for the joy of doing the work and not doing the work for the perceived results that you want to get out of it. So I'm glad you touched on that from the religious and spiritual perspective, because business is a form of worship. It is a spiritual endeavor. And when we forget that and when we just think, oh, well, I can do this all on my own. I can do all of these great things. You end up taking shortcuts and not making any money because same here, I didn't make money for years. And when you stop forcing it, not. Not that force is a bad thing. Like, do the work, but do the work for the right reasons and with the right energy.

Yeah, like that. I learned that from you, by the way. That helped me to get that to that conclusion.

So I'll. I'll keep my answer super brief. On the sales side, the thing that I wish I did earlier. Well, two things, actually. Number one, just knowing your numbers earlier. Like, if you don't know your show rate, offer rate, close rate, at least you're really shooting yourself in the foot. And number two, actually watching your call recordings because the natural inclination is, I suck at calling sales. I finally close a deal or, like, I lose a deal, that really pissed me off. So I take the time, I wash a call. I'm like, okay, what am I doing here? Then I get good enough to close a couple clients. You drop the script. Then you stop watching calls immediately. Like, who here has gone through that process where, like, you watch a lot of calls in the beginning, New offer, close some deals. Like, okay, I'm. I'm the fucking G, dude. Like, I'm not watching any more call recordings. I got this. You have to keep retraining yourself, right? Or results are going to plateau. So, yeah, just those two things. Know your numbers, watch call recordings, and if you have a team, make sure you're watching their call recordings.

Well, stop ghost writing for Andre and grow my own Twitter. I Grew Andres, like, 20K, I think, and then I took over my own. But my answer to that question would be, stop trying to actually, what you guys said, force it. And what I mean by that is just putting out so much value on Twitter without ever asking for anything in return for so long that eventually people just seek you out and ask how they can work with you. And obviously now we like plug client ascension, because I get yelled at if I don't plug it under the tweets and stuff. But I genuinely think, like, in the beginning, I feel like it's easy to, like, hit up a lot of people. Like, yo, I saw you like my tweet. Like, do you need cold emails written or do you need short form? Like, instead of doing that, just putting out value for so long and making a connection with people, like, literally DMing someone that likes your tweet and like, saying, oh, dude, you live in Phoenix, dude, I love Phoenix. Out there. You a suns Fan just like making that connection and never asking for a sale in return is how you. I don't want. I don't want to like say is how you should go about growing a Twitter audience or a Twitter brand, but I think that's the way that builds the most goodwill and will bring the most back to you in the long run. Right. People will seek you out naturally. They'll know. They'll know and trust you. Like, you'll make a genuine connection with people and then they'll want to work with you and as opposed to you like forcing a sales call and going like hard sell on them.

Yeah, I think it's easy to forget cuz someone might look at us like, I have 119,000 followers. You're at 2038. I don't know where you. 1. 1.

1.8.

I don't know what the you doing.

Yeah, like, I got.

I love how you said the 1.8. Like it doesn't say 1,800 on the.

You.

You don't got the dot yet, bro.

I don't have the K. I don't.

Have the K. Yeah, it's like this concept though, of. Of like, oh, it's easy for you because you have all those followers. Was like, bro, I started at zero. Like bare zero. Like actually like. You did too. He did too. He did too. It's like, it's easier for you. Yeah, it is now. Like used to be hard. It was the same thing. But you don't see is the three consecutive years, every single I have like 28, 000 tweets who can tweet 28, 000 times. See what I mean? And. And then I'm probably like, I don't know, another two years from now. Something. Wow, you blew up so fast. On YouTube, it's called what didn't feel like it for like, like a year and a half. And then one day it just. Did you see what I mean? Where it's like, dude, it's not fun in the beginning. It really isn't. I. I love this concept where people say like, oh, you can grow a business working. Working just four hours a week. And it's like, no, no, you actually can't.

Matt. The last thing I'll say to you is, you're already doing it, bro. Just.

Just keep doing.

Oh yeah, you're doing good. Yeah, you're gonna blow up in like six months.

Yeah, just keep doing it. Yeah, just keep doing it, bro. It's inputs over outputs. I love like that concept because it's just so easy to picture and it's just show up, do what you're told to do in client ascension, do what you know works and let go of the outcome. Let go of the outcome. Like the chips will fall where they may. You deal with it. You keep showing up and celebrate the inputs really because that's what's going to get you the outcome. We don't know when or how or if but eventually it's going to work out.

Such a big mistake. I see people do is like they're selling something and they don't. They're not like online. They're just not about the thing they're selling and what I mean, oh, you're a klaviyo email marketer but you don't give like an absolute shit about E commerce. But it's like dude, it doesn't work like that. Like you gotta like everything you're talking about is directionally related to that or like making E commerce sales like in, in some form or fashion you do it really well. Like you talk about Legion all of the time or even just bare minimum observations of what you're seeing in the realm of lead gen you see what it means. You're just like about it where you just talk about it and you're fully encapsulated in it. There's so many people where they're selling some service and they just don't talk about the service at all. And it's like what are you doing? They just either don't tweet at all or they're tweeting something that's not even related to it at all. And it's like well like that's not really building an audience around like a kind of a movement. You know what I mean there? Yeah. Where it's like we gen it's like you can get clients with cold email and like you, you, you everything you say is supportive of that. Or if like if you were ecom email it's like you can make more sales with email. It's like everything you say is forcefully behind that. Like it all relates to that one message.

Yeah.

And when you think you've said the same thing too many times, that's.

Say it again.

Anyone that's reading on the outside is probably seeing it for the first time or is really understanding it for the first time. So to you you've tweeted about it 10 times but to someone reading it, it's their first time seeing your content so they're gonna know and trust you from that.

Yeah. Hormozi said it, people need to be reminded more than they need to be taught. So just keep showing up doing the same thing.

It's frequency.

Jeremy with a question. Yes.

First thing, I really, really, really wish I knew. Earlier on, there's a, a study where they, they just took people and had them literally just write down what they ate. And without having them do anything else, they, they ate less calories. So, like, the thing that you track is what improves. Like, Peter Drucker, the famous business management exec, talked about this. So you can't track everything. So be really, really, really intentional with the things that you do track and be very religious about those. Like, for me, it's what's my cash flow? What, what am I, when am I going to sleep? Like, when am I getting my son? What, how am I exercising? Like, what am I putting in my body? And how many fucking emails am I sending?

Right?

Like, you know, I track so much. Second thing, like, to your point, video, I think, I think just like longer term, AI can generate text really easily. It's really expensive to generate video. So I think just longer term, like me looking five years out, I think video is another thing. The other thing is like your personal brand is the only thing you don't have any competitors for. Like nobody else can be you. So, like the number of connections I got after, I just actually started doubling down like that. Zero to 10,000 followers on Twitter in five months, period. I met so many people that gave me so much value in such a short amount of time. And so I wish I did that sooner. Over deliver, even when it's not important, like, even when you don't think you're going to get anything out of it. I was selling handbags at Macy's. I hated my fucking job. I didn't think there was any point to this, but I went hard and this lady watched me sell and she's like, oh, I think you're really good. I think you should be a realtor. Like, cool, go get your real estate license. And that was how I met a broker who taught me some marketing and led to the thing that led to the thing. And I took this internship writing blogs about fucking cloud computing. I was like, this is the dumbest shit ever. This is never gonna matter. But I really, really tried to write a good blog. And then like, holy shit. Like, actually one of them kind of worked, right? I think that's another one appeal. I already covered that earlier. Oh, dude, like hell. Locking this thing up during the day, I swear to God has tripled my productivity. Like, I'm not. I literally lock this in a box and I do not open the box until the end of the workday. I am not kidding. I get three times as much done. I wish I if I knew that five years ago, I'd be a fucking billionaire. Oh, yeah, and figure out what works for you, dude. I like how many people convince me, work, life balance or you're supposed to take weekends off. I fuck that, dude. I am so much happier and well adjusted and getting so much more done, like, not taking days off. I haven't taken a weekend off in probably months. And it's like, it kills my flow. When I take a Sunday off, I'm getting back. I don't know. So I don't know. Figure out what works for you. I can't tell you what works for you. Yeah, I wish I knew that.

Thank you.

Thank you, man.

Who else got a question? Does someone write? John, my guy.

Like, training yourself and like staying good at the thing, how do you do that early on when you don't have like a team of people, like, focused on different things? When you're the one focused on like, every single thing? How do you stay good at sales, stay good at marketing, stay good at product without, like, focusing on one thing while the other things suffer?

Find a sparring partner. What I mean by that is, bro, you're in client ascension, right? Like, how many of the guys inclined ascension aren't doing what you're trying to do? A lot of them, right? So like link up on Tuesdays, I think we send the automated message in the sales channel. Like, this is sales related. This applies to anything though, is who wants to do a mock call with someone else in this group? Comment below. And there's guys in the group that aren't working together, they're not on the same team, but they're pairing up and doing mock calls. And they're getting better. They're sparring partners. And so there are two guys that are in separate companies but with similar missions, similar goals, similar roadmaps. And so I think the shortcut if you don't have business partners is to find other people on a similar journey and mastermind and I think you have a great opportunity. Like, what specific use case would you think this applies to most for you? Like, what's most relevant?

I don't know if anything's relevant. I've just noticed, like, if I'm focusing on, like making like I'm creating a better client experience, I'm not posting as much on Twitter and I'm doing less marketing. Whereas, like, if I'm focusing more on marketing, like clients, results start to like kind of drop a bit. So it's kind of like staying good at everything at the same time.

Yeah, well, in the beginning it's a lot of hours for sure, but to stay sharp, like, great example is Joey and I. We're not business partners, but bi weekly on Fridays we get together and we talk shop about operations and we're just trading ideas, saying what worked, what didn't.

A lot of people say to make like time blocks. I don't like the concept of time blocks. I like the concept of assigning a specific day to the entire day for a specific action. So it's like I'll have one day where I'm just taking calls on this day, and then I'll have another day that's completely 100% blocked out. I'm making content and doing marketing stuff on this day. I'm not doing anything else. I think time blocks suck because you can't like, I, I feel as if you can only have one theme per day and you can't like switch off and do other things. You gotta just assign a whole day to one thing. So it's like one day you might, you might open up all your. Or you'll have like two days that you do all your sales calls on and then another day is just about hyper optimizing the client experience and the results you're doing. That's all you do on that day and then the next day. And that was after the day you did the client results stuff. So now when you make content, you can make the content based off of the stuff from the client results stuff and the sales calls you were on before, everything you learned from all the calls. So now that's at the end. Mine is on Thursday specifically. That's like my marketing day. And you, you get all the stuff from that week and you generate content from everything you did that week. And then you just. It's just that looping process and assigning things to days instead of time box time box stock.

Again, it goes back to what Jeremy says. Do what works for you. Because time block saved my life, but I'm like more ops focused, I guess. So I don't know. This is do what works for you. But both good options. Who else? Question. Dylan, please, bro, Been waiting for you to, to talk. It's another.

Networking, right? Like your incline ascension. Look at this room, right? Like a lot of people are inclined attention to like add 10k in the next 60 days or 6 months, whatever.

Right.

But like, you're in a room with other people who are thinking like you and have invested a considerable amount of money in their personal growth or business growth. So like, I think the biggest value adding client ascension is just proximity to other people who are thinking and operating in the same mindset that you are. And like, treat your life like outreach, right? Like, we're focused on sending this many emails or making this many cold calls or making this many sales calls, whatever it is. Like, do that for everything, right? Like, I'm going to reach out to 15 people this week inclined ascension just to like say what's up and learn about who they are as a human being. And like, the reason why I'm in this room is because I schedule a podcast with Andre and he canceled the podcast and I, I think I cold called him. I apologized, I, I prospected Andre and I got on a call because he missed the meeting. I was like, yo, what the. Like, you rescheduled twice.

You can't cut this part, bro.

Yeah, he ghosted me and I got on a phone call with Andre and we shot the shit for like 30, 45 minutes. And I think I gave you the Mario idea. And like, then I got fucking sold by Jay. I created the Mastermind group, whatever. But like, if I never followed up and I was like, ah, this just wasn't meant to be, whatever. But I actually networked with it. I made it a specific point to connect with Andre because I liked his tweets. I thought he was a good person on money, Twitter, and like, you don't know the outcome of a conversation is what I'm trying to say. Like the web of interactions that had to have occurred and the decisions and the micro decisions in that moment to get me in this room to help coach you guys as well. And like, if I just never called Andre, I would never be here.

I met Andre in a group. Look, I, I had a group and he was like super active in it, like giving a bunch of value in it. Yeah, he literally did that. That's how I met. Like, this is how this occurred. Because of that action.

Yes.

You never know what the outcome of an interaction is going to be. So like, that's my biggest thing that I harp on is like, dude, just talk to more people. Don't try to sell them. Just actually connect with a human being. They might know somebody that knows somebody who's brother's a VC funded guy who needs cold email outreach. Like you do not ever know. So like, always be Just connecting is like. That's my biggest piece of advice.

Great question, bro. Who else? Let's get a couple more in here before we go. Christian's feeding a cigar right now. I can tell he needs a drink.

Yeah, well, I'm feeding the cigar.

I'm feeling a. Wake up and win.

Who else? Questions. Come on, guys.

We got some.

We got some of the notes, too.

You want.

Oh, shout out. Shout out. Ayub.

I'm curious to know the answer. Dan, how long is it?

This question.

Daniel, how long has it been since you've used shampoo in your hair?

Like two years.

Yeah, yeah.

Bailey's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shampoo's. No one used shampoo before, like, 1950. It's a scam. Literally is money.

Twitter literally had me, like, putting apple cider vinegar and eggs in my hair. It actually feels great.

My cousin Mickey, who's actually in the Mastermind.

Kids, where is Mickey?

He's a killer. His agency is doing like 150k a month right now. But he was staying over. Christian was out of town, and I was like, yeah, just use his bathroom. Use his bed. Like, I got my. He's like, bro, why are there eggshells in the. He's just weird. He's got issues. Is. He means well, though, just hungry.

In the bathroom in your hair. And tell me it doesn't feel great.

Don't. Don't do that.

Be.

Be somewhat normal.

I'm trying to find a good one to start.

I got. I got a good one, actually from inside of Slack, so I got a bunch of them. Okay. So one of the questions from Slack, I. I would shout you out if I remember who this was. Maybe Christian, you could find it.

I'll find it.

What's one thing most agency owners aren't doing that they need to start doing to accelerate growth? And for me, again, I feel like you're going to get different answers from all of us because we all are involved in different parts of the business. But for me, I think. And kind of. This goes back to your question, John, is like, you have to make a decision, right? Like, you could say where you're at, and you could get pretty far just on your own and with, you know, taping together a bunch of vas. But if you want more than that, if you want to build, like, not to say you're not building a business, but like a company and a culture and a team.

This is Randy, by the way. Shadow Randy.

Shout out Randy. You have to make that decision to go out and partner that's one way. Like we did. Or hire a players and develop leaders. It's all about people. People are going to get you to where you want to go. It's not going to be some zapier concierge. Even though shout out to Luke and Klein Ascension, that's a great service. It's not going to be some sort of hype for your tweet hunter hack or some auto DM giveaway. It's gonna be other people. And that's your biggest leverage point. I think that's what we've done really well recently. This isn't something we've always done because every business owner suffers the same thing, which is like, I'm the only one that can do this. I can't outsource this. I'm the best. Nobody can do it better than me. And so I'm gonna have to do it forever. It's not true. And that's your biggest limiting factor. And so I would just say I'm talking to John, like you asked the question. But to Randy, if you're watching this, I would say hire a players, pour into your people and develop leaders.

Yeah. Quickest way I can summarize it, like from my perspective, just prioritize connections, deliver. What was I trying to say? Division of labor. And the last one, I don't know, we've been going for a little bit. I'm going brain dead at this point. Oh, know your numbers, right? Prioritize connections, divisional labors, know your numbers. Like those three things. Anytime we match that on marketing, sales or fulfillment, it just works.

Yeah, I would say figure out how to differentiate from the pack back to like offer creation and something really technical. Like if someone's talked to five Klaviyo agencies and they all pitched 30% more email revenue from your list, what can you pitch that will separate you from the other agencies and like creating your own offer segment. Like Daniel was going over some more technical, but that's probably what I would say.

Yeah, I think this is kind of like popped up in my head. But so Nick Verge writes my emails and I've got. I get this pitched to me like eight times a week. Like, hey bro, I can write emails to your list. Like one, fuck off. But two, what got me people don't what they're doing when they're prospecting on that is they don't understand like an actual pain point that exists when they're selling the thing. And the actual pain point that exists for that specific service is I don't want some random dude Writing emails to my list that suck that aren't in my voice. So I originally got sold on Nick stuff after he joined Client Ascension. And I'm on a call with him, and he's saying, oh, yeah. So I do this thing where I write emails for, like, pretty much people who run coaching products or info products that run a list. And. But I do it in a very unique way. I kind of. I kind of get in a call with them and hypnotize myself into becoming them, and then I make emails based off that. And I was like. I was like, that's exactly what I want. So I think a big mistake that people. You don't even know why people are buying your thing. Like, you would. You actually don't even know. So maybe, like, you should start asking. No one asked. And a really good way to do this is I did this a couple weeks ago where I think I got on a call with, like, 20 different people in Client Ascension. I was basically just asking, why did you buy this? Like, why? It's like, oh, well, because I was in this situation like that, like this and this and this and this. I was like, well, what was it about the structure of this that made it so appealing to you that would solve that issue? It's like, oh, it was because it was like, this, this, this. I'm like, oh, okay, it's that. And it's like. And then I asked further what would have made you pay more? And they're like, oh, if this. This, this, this was here, I would have paid more. My go. Oh, very interesting. Now I have a bunch of shit to use and. And exert out into the market as assets. You see what I mean? It's like, you. You got to know why people want things or purchase things from you. So that. That just work on that 100%.

Gabe, just got a question. Come on. Camp.

Question.

That's.

Yeah.

Asking for a friend.

Absolutely.

Asking for myself, what are the most.

Common false beliefs that business owners hold when it comes to sustainable marketing and lead generation scared of fulfillment, so they sabotage their lead gen and. And sales. And this. This. This actually happened with someone in Client Ascension. It was literally legit. Had to have, like, an emergency meeting. And I was like, all right, I'm gonna solve this problem. And it turns out that, like, the. The whole issue is that, like, she was getting on calls with people and not offering them. She's like, well, it won't work for them. And I'm like, why should go. Just won't. I'm like, tell me why ago? Because they don't. They don't have this and this and this and. And this. And, like, I have five clients right now and only. Or I have seven clients right now, and only, like, two of them are getting, like, really good results. Like, why? Like, what is it about those two that are getting really good results? And she's like, oh, well. Well, if I'm gonna do advertising and they don't have a bunch of assets, it's hard to get results because, like, you can't really. You can't really test stuff. So, like, all the clients are doing really good. They have, like, a lot of assets for me to use. And then all of these other clients that they don't. They don't have a lot of assets. I'm like, okay, well, what if. What if you're talking to someone and you ask them how many assets they have, and if they don't have a lot, you sell them more assets? She's like, I can do that. I'm like, yeah. And then, like, literally the next day, she's like, just close the $8,000 thing. And I was like, yeah, that's how it works. Like. Like. Because you're just being a sales conversation, and you're just, like, keeping it real with them. It's like, okay, you have this, this, this, this, this. I mean, to be completely honest with you, if I were to tell you what, I have a couple of clients that are getting really good results. I've definitely worked with clients who haven't got really good results before. What makes the people get the really good results is they have this and this. So if we were to work together.