Michelle tells the truth about interviews and networking and how to perform better

Okay. Welcome everyone. Good afternoon. For those of you who do not know me, I am coach Michelle Perchuk and I specialize in helping professionals land their dream jobs without recruiters or without using job boards. So you will ask me, for those of you who don't know me, if we don't use the job boards or work with recruiters, how will we get the jobs? Well, I have to say that you get the jobs by creating them yourselves. You create it yourself by going out there into your industry, speaking to leaders, and offer yourself as a subject matter, expertise that can solve a business problem for them. I'm trying to simplify it because this webinar today is not going to be about the whole process of job seeking, but this webinar today is about a little sliver. And that is when you are networking with people virtually or in person or you are interviewing, what framework can you use in order to drive success during that interview call or conversation? So I invented a very simple framework which I would like to share with you today, which should be in the back of your mind every time you have a conversation with a business leader. That framework is called rose. I'm putting that in chat right now. Rose seems a little feminine. I mean, everyone knows what a rose is, but it is a word that you'll be able to remember forever and it will be in the back of your mind every time you have a business conversation. So let's unpack what each letter of rose stands for. I will teach you the framework today and you will have an opportunity to ask me questions. Because I'm setting some time aside today for a Q and A so that you could start implementing this system in your networking calls slash interviews. The reason why I'm combining networking calls and interviews is because they're really the same. In the old fashioned world, people think networking is just talking to people I know or reaching out to people that went to the same school as me. Networking is not that. Networking is talking to business leaders and having intentional conversations. There's a reason why you're talking to them, not just sending them a friend request on, on. On LinkedIn. A connection. Interviews used to be thought as, oh, an opportunity for you to perform, to show how much you know so that they think you're so great and they will hire you. That is not an effective way to look at an interview. An interview is an opportunity for you at to ask the hiring manager questions so they reveal to you their problem, their business problem, and you then curate all of your experience to show them that you will solve that problem for them. Same way when you meet somebody in networking event or you reach out to a business leader that you're interested in talking to, you're reaching out because you're offering your subject matter expertise to somebody that has a business problem. So a networking call and an interview is really the same. And the way to do that efficiently, to run those types of calls efficiently, to make them conversations that highlight how you're trying to help to highlight your subject matter expertise. The way to frame that is by using my system, which is called Rose. Okay, so let me start unpacking what Rose stands for. R stands for rapport. O stands for overcome the need to perform. S stands for sell yourself as a solution to their problem. And E stands for elevate.

Okay.

Rapport, Overcome the need to perform, sell yourself as the solution and elevate to the next step. Sorry, I misspelled to the next step. If you're interested in getting a one pager that describes this, just send your email right now. My assistant DIA is on this call. She will make sure to send you the one pager that we designed.

Okay.

Additionally, if you need help with any of these components, Dara will be sharing my calendarly link so that you could book a consultation with me when I'm available.

Okay.

So that will come later in the call. Let's talk about what R O S E stands for and how can you start implementing it right away on your interviews and on your calls. Rapport. If you get rapport wrong, the interview is over because rapport is there in the beginning of the interview to build trust. If the hiring manager does not trust you, that means they are tuning out. They're not really listening to you, and no matter what you tell them, they're not going to select you as the candidate to make an offer to. So the most important time investment should be in building rapport. And how do you build rapport? You're going to ask. Well, every single interview starts with one magic question. Tell me about yourself. Most executives that I work with, and they're Senior leaders and CEOs and CIOs and CMOs, it is scary what they tell me when I ask them to tell me about themselves. Because that's actually the first question I asked. Tell me about yourself. So I have invented a special formula that allows you to craft an answer to the tell me about yourself question on an interview that gets them to fall in love with you the minute that they hear it. If any one of you have a problem crafting the tell me about yourself Answer, get on my calendar, and we will craft that together. But it is essential to tell them what they want to hear. In that tell me about yourself, you have an opportunity to curate their thoughts, to make sure that they're paying attention, to make sure that they understand that you are going to help them solve their problem. There's also a way to ask them a question. In building the Ruff, I have two magic questions that you ask for. One of them is, what is your vision for your organization? How can I help? So whenever you ask a hiring manager something about them, you've shown an interest in them. Almost right away, they will start talking about their own vision, because people, at the end of the day, love to talk about themselves. If you are in an interview where it's like a machine gun of questions, you know, one after the other, that probably is not the right position for you. Most people I'm recognizing from the roster of attendees. I've spoken to many of you on consultations. Several of you are my current clients. You are not in junior roles. You're senior people. You should not be answering questions like on an assembly line. So if an interview goes this way, it's usually with an HR manager or recruiter, and everyone knows what we think of those. Okay, so building the report, asking the hiring manager to confide in you, what is their vision for their organization? You have now veered the interview from them asking you all the questions and you performing for them. You have veered the interview to become a conversation between two business people. And if they start opening up and they start sharing with you, what is their vision? That means you did rapport, right? You build the trust, and now you are in control of asking the questions. So every time they tell you something about their vision, you ask them a real legitimate question. You ask filler questions like, that's very interesting. Please tell me more about that. I understand how you feel. I'm confident that I can help you. Okay, so most people focus on showing off during the interview. That's why I say O in the rose is overcome the need to perform. I don't care if you won the gold at the Olympics in Paris. Please keep that to yourself for now. Do not show off. Ask the questions. Once you build the trust, you build the rapport. You build the trust, they will start answering your questions, and they will reveal things to you about what's going on in the organization. Keep asking, Keep asking, keep asking questions until they reveal to you a problem. The reason that we're looking for the problem is that we need to latch onto that problem in order to go to the s, sell yourself as the solution to their problem. So let's back up a little bit. Why do organizations hire employees? They don't hire them for a beauty pageant. They don't hire them because they're nice people. They don't hire them because they're going to have a company picnic. They hire them because they're going to be solving problems for them and they're willing to pay for those problems to be solved. If you disagree with me, please say that in the chat that you disagree with me. Companies hire high level employees in order for these employees to solve a problem. And the exchange is the salary. This is just a workforce, workforce fact. And there's nothing that, you know, anyone can say or do about it. That's just the way things are. If you look at the, the, the history of labor, companies buy your labor to do something for the company, not to just show up and be a nice person. Okay, so we need to get down to the problem and right away show how you could solve the problem in the interview. And the most effective way to do that is to bring in a past experience from a former employer that you've had where you solved a similar problem. So I was just on the phone with a client. He is a vice president of marketing and he's looking for a role in banking or fintech and he just finished a consulting role at Wells Fargo. So I instructed him and prepared him for the interview and told him that to keep asking questions during the interview and when something comes up around AI because that's a very big conversation right now in marketing for him to interject his experience, this he'd had, that he has had at Wells Fargo and fuel that with his AI expertise. So it could go something like this. Thank you so much, Jill, for sharing with me about what you're trying to accomplish. I really enjoy listening to the vision of, for your company, for your marketing department. This reminds me of what I recently faced at Wells Fargo and when we tried to bring in AI to take over some of the processes in marketing, the hiring manager will say, wow, thank you so much for sharing that. Please tell me more about it. Now when the hiring manager said that or says that they are interested, they are listening on a third level. They're really listening to how you did it. You know why? Because they have a problem and they don't know how to do this. So you're not showing off all your skills in a chronological order. You're honing in your Expertise to be a solution to their problem. And that's if you do R O S E correctly, then the E happens instantly. You get elevated to the next step. You get invited back to a second interview. You get invited to a panel discussion with the team. You, you get invited back. You, you, you pass the first interview. Most of you know the pain of doing a first interview with recruiters. You don't really need to focus on recruit. You don't need to focus on the rose system when you're talking to recruiters. I don't like people talking to recruiters because there's very few good ones I know because they used to be one.

Okay.

If you'd like a framework on how to talk to recruiters, you could contact me. We have a framework, it's called jewel. We could share that with you.

Okay.

But to get back to the RO system, recruiters, if they happen to be internal recruiters who are quite senior, let's say they're director of talent acquisition or senior recruiting lead inside the company, then I would use the rose on them. But if it's a recruiter that's calling you from overseas that just has a job description and they don't really know the manager, it's really not even worth talking to them because they will not represent you authentically. They don't really know you. I have a quick story about a former client of mine that landed his dream job in 14 days. True story. He used the rose system on a recruiter that called him who was an internal recruiter for a very fast growing and evolving tech company. My client is in the AI space and he really was not connecting with the right type of people, leaders that can hire him into the chief AI officer role that he was looking for. He used to the rose system on the recruiter and magic happened. He spent time talking to the recruiter about life, about where he wants his career to go, about his education. He really took the time to build a relationship of trust with the internal recruiter. And guess what that recruiter did. He recommended him immediately, right to the CEO and said, listen, I've been looking for a long time. I but this guy is right. If you want to hear more about it, go on YouTube. You'll see one of the most recent videos that we posted with my client. He tells the whole story. Just enter my name into YouTube. Michelle Perchuk. Go onto my channel and you will see my client Omar's testimony as well as many, many others. So maybe you'll be able to relate to these stories that people are out there sharing. Okay, so once again, for those of you that joined late, I'm reviewing the Rose framework. The Rose framework is going to help you manage and control every conversation that you have with somebody about your career. So whether it's a networking call or it's an interview, it's really one of the same. R is for Rapport. Take your time with this. If you do it right, you will be invited back. If you mess up in the Rapport section, you don't have a solid story about your professional career, you don't have a solid answer to the tell me about yourself, and you're walking them just through the resume, then probably that interview is not going to go well. They don't need you to regurgitate your resume to them. Again, they have your resume in front of them. They want to know more. They want to know if you will fit in the culture. They want to know if you will solve their problems. Okay, so rapport is extremely important. Wrap up Rapport by asking the hiring manager, what is your vision for the company? Let them answer that question and you can veer into asking them more questions like, what's getting in the way of the vision? Where are you on a scale from 1 to 10 in completing that vision? If it's a 5, what would make it an 8? Oh, you don't have the right leadership in your marketing team. I'd love to discuss that with you. This reminds me of when I was at Wells Fargo. Oh, tell me more about that. So during this conversation, overcome the need to perform in listing all of your skills, how great you are, and what your GPA was and what school you went to. Really continue asking the questions. Look, there's different kinds of hiring managers. Many can say, listen, you know what? We'll get to your questions in the end. I have some questions that I want to ask you. Then you know what? You have to be respectful and you're going to have to answer their questions. But the first opportunity that you have to ask them a question so that you understand what their number one problem is, please ask that question. You need to know their number one problem. Their number one problem could be that somebody resigned from this role or somebody took an absence, a leave of absence, and they need somebody to take over to run a new strategy. This is a real problem. If your chief marketing officer is on maternity leave and you don't have anybody that could step into their shoes, the company will suffer. Maybe asking during the interview, what is it costing the organization if you don't find somebody Right. For this role, saying things like, how may I help you? What exactly about my resume piqued your interest? Which part of my resume is directly connected to your problem? So when you ask these types of questions, people will open up and people will say, I'm glad that you asked that. You know what, this is actually what I really need. And then you just curate in your mind what experience you have had up until this point that is directly related to their problem. One of the exercises that I do, and many of you are my existing clients, is I build stars with people. So this is a little bit extra credit that you're going to get on this call. So a star stands for situation, task, action and results. Many of you who are in sales are probably familiar with this. But the stars that I build with my clients are stars which are situations that you unraveled to show an ROI that. An ROI that the company got a tremendous ROI on your vision or your, your presence being there. So as you prepare with me, once you're my client, as we prepare you for the interview, I make sure that you have several stars stars built up so that when you're asked a question or when you uncover a problem that the hiring manager has during an interview, you don't have to go through the Rolodex of your mind. You will have these stars already lined up. So if you're asked, oh, tell me about your leadership style. Tell me about when you had to overcome a challenge with somebody on your team. You don't have to think. You will have all of these case studies prepared as evidence. I have many people that have post its prepared around their laptop so that they're reminded. Or if you need to practice with me, that is also an option. But it's a game changer if you have these stars actually documented and practiced because then your responses will sound very polished and you're not meandering through the interview. You're very prepared. It's like going into court. You can't go into a courtroom not being prepared. You need to practice what you're going to say and you or a debate, you need to know what you're going to say. You don't need to memorize everything, but you need to have your bullet points prepared in advance. So this is where the stars are tremendous value, especially for people who are actively interviewing, because you need to bring your best and your subject matter expertise to the interview, not just meandering through the process. Many people come to me, they have interviewed for 15 different roles and they were never invited to second round. And there's a reason for that. They don't have a system and they basically are just interviewing for the hell of it. They're not really interviewing with intention.

Okay.

Just a little talk about networking calls and how to use Rose for your networking calls. So there are three categories of people. There are people that you know, there are people that you don't know, and there are people that you should know. Let's start with the people that you know. And using the rose system, people you know could be former colleagues, former bosses from several years ago. Reaching out to those people and using the Rose system is essential while you're job seeking. You start a conversation with somebody you call somebody, you reconnect on LinkedIn and you schedule virtual coffee. Use the Rose system. Build a rapport. How are the wife and kids? How was your summer? How are you doing? How's work? Don't say anything about that. You're job seeking. Ask them about them. Build the rapport and the trust. Get reconnected. Get them to talk. Oh, I'm really tired. I haven't had a vacation all summer. Oh, how come? What's going on? Well, you know what? We acquired a new company. It's a nightmare. Wow. Sorry to hear that. Tell me more about that. Keep digging. Keep mining. Keep mining for those problems. That's a good way to think about it. Keep mining for those problems during your conversations. Once they disclose a problem and you are the solution to the problem, say, wow, that reminds me of when we tried to do this implementation over at Salesforce. Wow. Tell me more about that. Then you talk about what you did and how you actually made a difference and what you brought to the table. And then you could wrap that up by saying, hey, Mary, obviously I can help your organization. I've got the expertise. I'd love to talk to somebody in your team more about that. Or do you think that your boss may benefit in you making the introduction because it's apparent that I can help? Absolutely. I'm going to write the introduction right now. Or better yet, let's schedule a conference call for next week. When are you available? If you have demonstrated that you are a subject matter expert and you could help the organization, you will be automatically elevated to the next level. Now, let's talk about you people you're trying to connect that you don't know. Once again, rapport is very important. If they feel that you are using them because you need a job, because you saw a job opening in their company and you reach out saying that they're not going to help you. They don't know you. So what do you say to complete strangers that. That you would like to start building a rapport with? When I work with clients, I provide scripts to you of things that you can say that will start building a relationship with a complete stranger who is a leader in a company that you're interested in working for. So that is all part of my services and the scripts that I craft for you, which are all individual for everyone, depending on your realm, depending on your expertise and so forth. Now, there's that third category, people that you should know. And people you should know are the recommendations and the introductions that your existing connections should be making for you. But you're not. They're not, because you're not asking in the right way. Okay, so you could clearly see how using the Rose framework can basically turn your conversations into significant career opportunity leads. So now it's very clear to all of you that you don't need job boards, you don't need recruiters. Jobs on job boards are someone else's crumbs. Those are jobs that no one else wants, especially for the senior roles. If they're looking for warehouse personnel, the job boards are Perfect. They're hiring 500 people at the same time. They are not hiring 500 VPs of finance. So applying through job boards and through the LinkedIn job board is really a waste of time. We don't ignore them. I use that for intelligence, but that's another webinar. Okay, So I would like to give an opportunity for everyone. This webinar is 45 minutes, so I have allotted 15 minutes or so for people to ask me questions. This webinar is recorded. My assistant Dyra will send a recording to everyone. The most important thing is if something you'd like to expand on, Rose, see how you could implement that into your interviewing, into your networking. If you would like to build stars. If you would like to curate the answer to the tell me about yourself question so that you are engaging during the interview, please get on my schedule and I'll be more than happy to tell you more about that.

Okay?

And without any further ado, please put down any questions you have, any observations, and I'll be more than happy to answer those questions. The Q and A is open right now. I don't know if we have any questions. No one is asking questions. Okay, so, Julia, there is no link to the tell me about yourself. You need to schedule a consultation with me and we could work on that.

Okay.

The only thing that you're going to be getting after this webinar is the recording of this webinar and a one page template of what Rose spells out.

Okay, yes.

I can certainly go over what star means. Star stands for situation, time, task, action, and results. So whenever someone asks you a question, do you have experience in doing this? You are going to have a star that will correlate to that. The situation was that we wanted to introduce AI into our marketing department because we were paying way too much money for content writers and we wanted to embrace AI into our marketing business practices. The task was to select several AIs that we would introduce and subscribe to that would help us do that and would help us not pay a lot for content writers. The action steps that I as vice president of marketing did, I went and I spoke to my colleagues, if they're familiar with any AI tools. I visited a conference. I reached out to my college alumni. I read a book. I did a course at mit. All the actions that you did. And the result was I selected two AI tools that we implemented in content writing for the sales team or for the legal team, whatever. The subscription was $25 a month, and I wind up saving close to $2,000 a month on content writers. That's an ROI. ROI should always have data, percentages, revenues, so forth. That shows what you actually contributed to the organization and how you took it upon yourself to unravel the situation. Okay, so that's the answer to the star. How do help clients to land jobs? Are you available follow up after employment? Okay, so, okay, Eva is asking two questions. Number one, what is the cost? And you're currently unemployed. Okay, I'm sorry to hear that, but my cost varies. It all depends on what you're looking to achieve. And if you would look at the cost of my program and the cost of what unemployment is costing you of not having a job. It's a deal. So if you would like to find out what the actual cost is, I recommend you book a consultation with me. I'm not really sure what you do. I'm not sure if this program is right for you. So for me to quote the cost is basically not effective. I'd love to find out more about what you do to make sure that I could help you. I don't work with people that I cannot help. Okay, so that's your first question. How do you help clients to land their jobs? Are you available follow up after employment yes. So I help clients land their jobs. Two simple things. Without job boards or without recruiters.

Okay.

I have A system. And this is. This webinar is not about the system of landing a job. This webinar is only how to talk to people during interviews and during networking calls. But that is a sliver of the entire job seeking process. So if you're struggling and you cannot land the job, and it's been more than six months, it's worth an investment to talk to me. The consultation is free, but my system is a game changer, okay? Because it's really producing results for people. Katie. Hi, Katie, my star student. What do you recommend when talking to the gatekeeper? When they ask these questions, do we give them the stars? They seem to be pretty brief to scan through the first round. So if you are. So who are these gatekeepers? Are they junior recruiters in an organization or they are recruiters that are working on jobs exclusively? Can you just expand on that, please, and I'll answer the rest of your question. Jason is asking, so if I'm right, so if I'm right for your help, do you guarantee I get hired? A lot of people ask me this question, and basically I like to say this. So my track record is incredible. This year, I have not had a single person not land their dream job.

Okay?

Now, if you do everything that I tell you, it's a guarantee. If you do everything that I tell you and you don't get the job, which is impossible, I will refund you the money. But if you listen to what I tell you to do and you do what you feel like doing, then no, this is not refundable. So the only guarantee is if you enroll, if you're right for the. For the program, you enroll and you really show up ready to work, to do what I tell you. Because people that do what I tell you get incredible results. Some simple things like the resume that I redo with you is so powerful that I have had former Amazon managers go back and reapply to jobs that they were rejected on by the bot that, you know, you get the automated response. They reapplied to senior jobs with my resume and they were called in for an interview. True story. Go listen on YouTube.

Okay.

I work with a lot of people from Facebook, meta from Amazon right now. Things are changing in those companies. I work with a lot of senior people that are coming out of those companies now. There's a fresh wave of people from management consulting because PwC just laid off 2,000 people or they will lay off by the end of the year.

Okay?

So, Jason, I hope that answers your question. Hi, Neil, how are you? Long time no see. Let me see. Do you have any general tips or approach to answering the tell me about yourself question? Yes, I have a formula. You have still coaching sessions left, so please get on my calendar and we will craft your three chapters of your life.

Okay.

That's the way I craft the tell me about yourself question.

Okay.

This gatekeeper called the Nature Conservancy. I did give her stars, and she said they make the next round by the end of the week. Okay. Yes. Remember we looked at that gatekeeper. She's just a senior recruiter at the company. She's really not a gatekeeper. She has some influence in the hiring process. So she's not your true gatekeeper. The true gatekeepers are the screeners. The ones that, like, get a resume from the boards and they call the. The 50 people that replied. Those are the screeners. Not worth your time. Okay, no problem. Okay. Any more questions? We have a few more minutes. Any more questions? There must be questions I'd love to hear from. Let me see if I recognize anybody. Oh, Mike, nice to see you here. Hope things are going well. Do you have any questions? Have you encountered anything during the interviews that you've gone on since you and I last did a consultation? Mike, you could actually say something. Hi.

Hi. I've had a couple. Like last week, I had two interview. Initial interviews with, I guess, gatekeepers.

Okay.

And one of them went really well. The other one maybe not so well.

So.

Okay.

That's, you know, that's. That's where things are at. I've certainly been staying off the job boards and trying to focus on networking, and that's been actually going pretty well.

So I'm glad to hear. I'm glad to hear. Now networking, if done effectively, you kind of skip the line and you skip over the gatekeeper. I have. I never have seen senior people talking to other senior people that could solve problems and then that gets paused and like. Hold on a second. Before we go any further. You need to talk to the screener. It doesn't work like that.

Yeah. This was a role that I had talked to the hiring. I know, the executive hiring, the position. So I talked to him before.

Okay.

Role even became available. But I. But they had a recruiter that was, you know, the screener. He just. Yeah, it didn't go as well as I had hoped in that conversation. But I think I'll get to the next stage. I mean, I already had a good connection there, so.

Okay, great. So I just want to say something about kind of my style, of my Coaching and how I really help people get extraordinary opportunities. I don't do well with the word hope. The market is very active right now. Companies are in a frenzy to gobble up who's available, who could help them solve problems. We're gearing towards an election. We don't know what's coming in the, in the new year, what administration. We, we. You know, there's two world wars. I mean, there's a lot of uncertainty. So if companies have the funds right now and you. They're confident that you could solve a problem for them, they'll bring you in as a strategist and they will convert you to a full time person in the beginning of the year. If you want to revisit that, get on my calendar. We could talk about it further.

Okay.

Okay, sounds good.

Wonderful. Okay. Any more questions? Okay, let's see. Do you feel about. How do you feel about job fairs for networking? So I like job fairs because the people that have the tables there are obviously in trouble and they don't have the right employees and they want more, better ones and they feel that if they go into a supermarket of applicants, then they're going to gobble up a lot of good resumes. I would go to job fairs just to kind of see the landscape. I would not really lay myself out too much in doing the impromptu little interviews there. I would go collect cards, I would see who's hiring, I would see what kind of positions they're hiring for. Maybe it would drop off my resume, whatever, but I wouldn't take it. I wouldn't expect much to come out of the job fair. What I would do is, is I would build a separate strategy after I come back from the job fair. So if I saw a booth for Ernst and Young and they're looking for junior associates, I would then go and start contacting people at Ernst and Young.

Okay.

Because I know that there's action at the company. That's what I would do. But I would not go and try to perform for them there. They're mostly junior recruiters. There's really never hiring managers or job fairs. So I really wouldn't hope that you would get an interview from the job fairs, let's put it that way. Okay, Any more questions? We have four more minutes until we wrap this up.

Okay?

So once again, thank you everyone for attending this webinar. I hope that this was helpful. I hope that you will use the rose system. Please feel free to share. If you try it and it didn't work, feel free to send me an Email say, michelle, you don't know what you're talking about. It didn't work for me. I love to hear these kind of answers because then I invite you to a consultation with me and I show you how you could use it better. Every day I hear miracles happening for my clients. Every day. They land jobs that they never thought that they're even qualified for. And it's really. It's really sad because a lot of people are very qualified, brilliant people, but they don't know how to sell themselves. And I always like to say, the surgeon can never operate on themselves. You almost need a neutral party who tells you, who corrects you, who is not afraid to hurt your feelings. I mean, I would rather, as a coach, tell you the truth. And sometimes it's not so nice, but you autocorrect and then you perform great at the interview.

Okay?

So, you know, people come to me with all kinds of different struggles. People are interviewing their senior interviewing four, five, six months. They're burnt out. They. Their family starting to notice, you know, they're not very commu. You know, they're not communicating well with their spouses. It's stressful to be in a crappy job or to be unemployed. I get it. I have a lot of empathy for what most people are going through, and that's why I do what I do. Okay, so it's tough, and sometimes it's difficult to turn the mirror and look at yourself. Some people are, in their own way, they're sabotaging their success. They're telling hiring managers too much sometimes. You know, you may be unemployed, but you don't need to lead with the fact that you're unemployed and, and complain about how things were on Amazon. Okay, no one is a professional job seeker. Because if you're a professional job seeker, that means you're not a subject matter expert. People fall into a job search and they meander, they fumble around, and that's why most people don't get a good result. So if you want to change that, get in touch with me, book a consultation. The link is right there that shared my by my assistant. The consultation is free. Follow me on Instagram, connect with me on LinkedIn and go on the YouTube channel. There are a lot of amazing nuggets there that could help you and that could really help you interview like a rock star. I hope today was very helpful. It's very nice to see many of the attendees. It's nice to see some, you know, old faces. And we'll see you again. If you have any recommendations about topics you want covered on the next webinar, feel free to contact me on LinkedIn and we'll make sure that we will build a webinar around a topic that's of interest to you. Where is your link can find it? Okay, where are you looking for my link? On YouTube or on LinkedIn? LinkedIn. Dyra just shared it and if on YouTube, you can just enter my name. Okay, thank you everyone. Have a great afternoon. See you next time. Bye.