How to Build a Business as a Military Spouse Without Playing Small w. Kate Fosson

That's like a purposeful decision to not just value what my work is by how much money it makes, but also by, you know, the freedom that it gives me.

Welcome back to another episode of the Yes And Podcast. I am your host, serial entrepreneur, retired stuntwoman, retired therapist, and all those things that you can find in my bio. But today I'm still just gonna be your host Bunny Bunny Young, that is here for a guest episode bringing you some pretty vulnerable topics that I can't wait to get into. And my special guest today is Kate from Brand Pollinators. So that's the part that I always get nervous about because I'm like, "Am I going to pronounce things wrong? Am I going to get the company wrong?" So we've already identified I won't be able to say the word "skepticism," possibly. You got it. You're going to own that, Kate. You've got me covered on that one. So Kate, welcome to the Yes And Podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. This is such a delight.

I love doing— I love that you have wine glasses in your background too. Like, it's just—

it's just where I'm sitting.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere. So we should— if you— this is not an affiliate plug, but Kate, if you have Trader Joe's near you, they have these apple cider vinegar drinks that taste great out of a wine glass. And they look bougie enough to pass.

I love that.

Okay.

I'm down. I'll look for this. Yep.

Just tag me in the photo when you, um, when you post it. We've got it.

Yes. Affiliate links.

Yes.

So let's, let's jump into this. And one of the things that I want to get into, because most of our listeners are on their entrepreneurship journey, is what brought you and inspired you to create Brand Pollinators?

I would love to talk about that. It is a kind of winding journey, but it was really, you know, a lot of what I'm passionate about. So when I first graduated college, I was working at this big company in a cubicle and I was, I was working for a wholesale grocery company. So I was buying truckloads of toilet paper and candy and all kinds of stuff. And I just felt like it didn't really align with my values. Like at home, I was, you know, buying all this organic stuff and sorting my recycling. Cycling and at work I'm just buying truckloads of trash. So I realized I had to change my career because I really, my heart wasn't in it and it was dragging me down. So I went out in search of work that was meaningful to me. And unfortunately that led to some very like low-paying minimum wage jobs, but I was working with companies I really cared about and supporting missions that were really important to my values. So I continued on that path and then when I met my husband, things changed because he is in the military. And so I knew after we moved the first time, like, okay, I can't do this every 2 years, like start over in a new city, try to find a job. So that's when I started working for myself and that was back in 2008. So I've been working remotely for a really long time. I'm excited that people have caught up to, uh, doing Zoom in, in a lot more digital work. But yeah, I mean, that sort of led me— I was doing web design and worked with a CPG company. I ended up doing my MBA during one of those moves. And yeah, finally I connected with a friend who had also worked with a lot of entrepreneurs who also really cared about impact, and we started Brand Pollinators together. So that was kind of how it started.

Just following a series of open doors. I, I love that.

Yeah. Well, and I think there was a lot of like long-term thinking too, because, you know, with my husband being in the military, I just knew that I couldn't, I couldn't just follow along and like hope that things worked out eventually for my career because I had to like actively I had to take charge of it if I wanted it to be something. And so, I've been a huge advocate for other military spouses kind of along their career journeys as well, because I mean, not everyone cares deeply about, you know, having a specific career or specific work, but to me it was just something really important. And so, I really made it a priority to try to open doors for myself or like set up doors in the future that I could open, if that makes sense. Um, just cause I think, you know, if you just sort of wait for those opportunities to come, you might, you might not, they might not come at the right time or you might miss them.

First and foremost, thank you for your service and thank your husband for his service because as an Army daughter, granddaughter, wife, niece, all the things, um, it's, it's a journey, right? And there's also this element of. When you decide to be an entrepreneur knowing that you're possibly going to be, you know, my husband's National Guard, so we don't have to move as big Army does, and also knowing that what the paycheck's going to look like. And so kind of, I feel like as a military spouse with your own company, there's a significant amount of risk as well as that dynamic of possibly being the breadwinner. And that kind of leads into something that we talked about a little bit offline, which is imposter syndrome and like betting on yourself when, at least for me, I can only speak for me, you don't see a whole lot of people around you doing that similarly. I'm very lucky that I'm a third-generation entrepreneur, and so I had some of that modeled for me. But is that something that you struggled with of not seeing others doing what your dreams were and not having that modeled and also that voice in your head that's like, what the eff are you even thinking trying to do this?

Yep. All the time. I mean, it happens, especially like you said, without having those models to get inspiration from or support and seeing that other people have done this. But that's one of the things that is really cool with Brand Pollinators is that it's, you know, we work with a lot of entrepreneurs and founders of emerging brands. And so it's all about community and collaboration and really connecting to each other so that it's not so lonely because it can be, it can be really lonely. And it's, you know, you're able to hear from other people that are going through really challenging things too, and knowing that you're not the only one and that some days are better than others. But yeah, I mean, with the military spouse aspect, I think it's really, it is, it's tricky. Like I've known, I've known a lot of military spouses that have really amazing careers, but a lot of times their husband doesn't stay in the military if they are, you know, the breadwinner. I know several military spouses that have PhDs and usually their husbands get out of the military after a certain point and they can stay put and, and work on their career. And so when that doesn't happen, there's just like a lot of, of compromises that have to happen. And, you know, sometimes people don't understand why, why you're bang— like why I would be banging my head against the wall trying to make my business, you know, work or grow when there's a lot of obstacles in the way. So. Um, that becomes a challenge of like, it's my own personal journey and that's what I— is inspiring to me and exciting to me. And so yeah, to not necessarily have a lot of people that I can share that with is definitely a struggle.

And I think that's where you had said that collaboration is so important. And I mean, obviously cross-pollination is by definition what you're here to do. Um, even having a business partner, which partnering with other women in business has not always felt like a safe thing for me to do. I've gotten burned several times, and I also know that without, without opening myself up to that and without being willing to do collaborations and without being willing to network, I would not be where I am today. And so how important is collaboration to success in business?

Oh, I think it's huge. And especially if you're starting out, you know, like As an entrepreneur, um, building a business, I think that there's, there's just so many things that you're not gonna know. And when you collaborate, you can share insights, you can learn from each other, and you can access maybe resources that you wouldn't have access to without, you know, a collaborator that, that you can share with. So, um, I think collaboration is a huge benefit for, like I said, especially entrepreneurs, but even with bigger companies. As well, because there's always something unique about your perspective, your experience, and where you're coming from. And so to be able to tap into that and kind of share, you know, more minds— how's the saying go? Several minds are better than one. Or, you know, there's this whole concept of like the diversity of thought can really help expand the business and, you know, bring new ideas and new new solutions that you might not have thought of.

I think the other thing, like the saying that comes up for me is that you're the sum total of like the 5 or 6 people that you surround yourself with. And to go back to the modeling, you know, growing up with my parents being entrepreneurs, obviously I'm surrounded by them. My grandfather is an entrepreneur. When I went to get my graduate degree and go to school to be a therapist, and I was surrounded by other students that wanted to make this impact, that was great. When it came time to graduate and I started working in child protective services and doing that work, because of who I was surrounded with, I thought that, you know, making $28,000 a year, $30,000 a year, having 480 kids in the time that I was there, working 7 days a week, being stuck to my phone and literally having life or death calls on a daily basis that was frying my nervous system. I normalized that because that was what a therapist life was. And when I stepped out of that and started doing private practice and only did self-pay and created that $300,000 private firm, it was interesting to see that people that I'd been surrounding myself with started coming to me and being like, Well, how did you do this? And so I think that the first thing that I would tell anybody that has those dreams like you're describing is choose who you're surrounding yourself with. Step into a container, step into a mastermind, step into an accelerator, step into a networking group where success is normal. And honestly, failure is normal as well, right? You know, because normal is a setting on a washing machine, but you get to choose your, your reality and the energy that you're attuning yourself to. And I think that also goes with being a military spouse, like the conversations that we have and the acronyms that come through in our communication.

It's a completely different language.

And yet for you and I, it's something that's like on the regular. And I remember sitting at— this is my last thought, I think, on collaboration and on networks. But I remember sitting at my husband's graduation from basic training, and he didn't graduate until he was like 30. So he was super old in military terms to go through basic, especially as an enlisted, not as an officer. And our daughter was, I don't know, maybe 3 or 4 at the time. And I said, look out there in this field, and there's, you know, over 1,000 soldiers. I said, these are now your family. Like, you have now joined one of the largest families in the United States. Because when you go through a situation, whether it's being a military family member, whether it's being in the military, whether it's being an entrepreneur, there's a code, like there's a community, there's a select few that understand what that's like. And therefore you're a part of this network and you're a part of this family. And why not tap into that? Why start at zero? When there's so many other people who are willing to help that have the knowledge where you could be starting at step 40 and accelerating that.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, I tap into the military spouse community all the time, and I'm always trying to encourage others to do it too, because honestly, people love to help. And as much as it's hard sometimes to ask questions or to admit you don't know something or ask for help, there are so many people out there that want to help. And we have, you know, Facebook groups and local chapters of military spouse clubs and things like that. And I've found those to be a really amazing resource to just kind of, you don't have to explain everything. Like you said, it's, people get it. And, you know, you can just reach out and say, look, my washing machine broke, the movers are coming tomorrow, my kids are sick, like, just send me some good vibes or whatever. And I mean, even living on like a military installation, like, you know, I always tell military spouses, like, we, we do, we have a code and if you need something, you call or you text and we'll be there. Like, there's just no questions asked. Like, we can't get through this without relying on each other. And so we do.

Well, I think that leads really well into what we were going to talk about as far as the challenges of doing something new and creating that skepticism. And I'm gonna, like, on— at the risk of, um, offending every single military spouse out there, entrepreneurship in military spouse communities typically looks like selling essential oils or joining an MLM company. And I think that's one of the biggest just, I don't want to say gimmicks because it's like a genuine opportunity.

And it makes me angry because I think, just interjecting here, the MLMs are preying on military spouses. Like, I would highly advise against carrying inventory of a product when you move frequently.

Yes.

And that's most of those MLMs are requiring you to carry inventory and that's just nuts.

Okay.

But now, so now we're getting into this though, because when you say entrepreneurism in a military spousal community, yeah, that's the first thing that most people are familiar with at this time. And so, and, and I'm speaking for myself here when I say that I'm a military spouse and an entrepreneur. That's the first question I get. The fact that I'm a military spouse, I'm an entrepreneur of multiple companies, and I'm the breadwinner. Now it's like, that's where I get the challenges and I get the skepticism.

Yeah.

And so, even outside of the military community, being a female that's the breadwinner, there's a lot of skepticism from both sides. There's, there's a lot of Oh, well, you must be doing something illegal.

That's, that's cute. It's my favorite. Because ironically, what, 200 years ago? I mean, even 50 years ago, I wouldn't have been able to have my business credit card and/or a business line of credit. And so, yes, it would be illegal. And then within the military community, it's also just like, well, you, you, that may be okay for you, but I can't do it because of this laundry list of expectations. So how have you dealt with the challenges and the skeptics and the naysayers?

Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think I see that outside of the military spouse community more often than inside, honestly, because military spouses understand each other and we know that like We know how to get stuff done. I mean, doesn't matter what it is, we'll figure it out. Like, you know, hiring military spouses is probably the best thing you'll ever do because they work hard. I mean, this is just a generalization, but it's what I've seen over and over again. But you know, I, I meet people through networking for my business and, you know, they're like, oh, well, how do you, like, what does your husband do? Or, you know, like they're, mm-hmm. They're really skeptical of like how I could be like having a business.

I'm not laughing at you. I just need you to know that. I just, I'm laughing at the experience of all of that.

Yeah. And, and it's like a lot of times the thing, the, the skepticism that I get a lot is like, I'm building a business that doesn't look like a typical business. And so a lot of times people are like, oh, is this a passion project? Oh, and like kind of makes me wanna throw up in my mouth a little bit.

I just thought I was gonna say like, I need a little, like one of those airplane bags.

Oh man.

Yeah.

Cause I mean, it, I don't know why it, it irks me so much, but like, okay, it is a passion project. Like I'm passionate about it, but it's not like this little pet project. It's like, this is something that I dedicate my life to and like I'm, I'm reaching out to like support. Hundreds, if not thousands of other entrepreneurs. And, you know, all the businesses in our community are impact-driven. And so they're all doing something that's like better for the planet. And like, I'm envisioning this big, like, shift in consumerism and like, you know, like a global scale of impact by connecting all these entrepreneurs. I'm like, oh, is this a passion project? And so it just like, yeah, it kind of, it kind of cuts me a little bit. But yeah, that's like the skepticism that I feel like is frustrating to deal with. And, you know, and like we were talking about, uh, imposter syndrome, it's like, it's hard to not hear that and then not get down on myself. Like, oh, is this just a passion project? Like, is this going anywhere? Um, but I think that's what's important about having, like, surrounding yourself with the kind of people who do lift you up and do inspire you and also are big thinkers and big doers and You know, that's where I can turn to so that I'm not, you know, completely crushed whenever somebody kind of pooh-poohs the work that I've been doing.

Oh, I just like need a second to recover from all of that. I mean, there's so much that comes up for me when my brain thinks in like memories as well to kind of make sense of stuff. And I remember going and buying our car. And how the salesperson kept just staring at my husband and directing all the questions to my husband. And I'll never forget that they were like, okay, well, you need to fill out this application. And my husband's like, he specifically hands it to my husband. And my husband's like, well, what's the application for? And he's like, oh, for financing. And he's like, well, and he looks at me and he said, are we financing it? And I said, no, we were going to pay cash. And the sales guy's like, what do you mean you're gonna pay cash?

Dollar bill.

My husband's like, I'm not paying cash, my wife is, you know? So like, um, or even we just bought a new house in California and even that process of the mortgage, you could, you could hear the tone of the mortgage broker being like, oh, you're self-employed.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I guess if you consider that I started my own company that I get distributions from and it writes me a paycheck, I'm self-employed, but I also am employed by a company that I own versus having a salary where my income is capped. Now, now, granted, I understand that, that, you know, when you own your own company, you're responsible for your own paycheck. But isn't that the good news? Because at the end of the day, I have control about whether or not I get a paycheck and how much it is and all of that versus somebody else being able to take that away at any time.

Oh, 100%.

It's just fascinating.

Yeah. And I see that a lot too. Like, I'm super active on LinkedIn and a lot of times I see people getting laid off from these bigger companies and like, I just, I don't want, I don't ever envision being in that situation ever again because it's like, I create the work for myself and I can make it as much or as little as I want. And yeah, like for me, I, I created this company in this way and worked, you know, remotely for so long because that's what fit with my lifestyle. Like it was important to me to be around when my kids were home and not in school. And to be able to, if my husband got a day off take off and go mountain biking. Or, you know, that's like, I, I created this on purpose so that I could have that flexibility because as much as I am super passionate about like doing work that I love, I, it's not my whole life. Yeah.

Yeah.

And so that's, you know, that's like a purposeful decision to not just value what my work is by how much money it makes, but also by, you know, the freedom that it gives me.

Okay, you just gave a massive, uh, layup there for me. Or I'd like to say like a nice fat juicy fastball, because in a previous life I played softball and loved it. Um, how do you define success and wealth?

It's, it's interesting because as much as I talk about other ways of defining success success besides just dollars, there's like, everyone else is still thinking in dollars too. And so that's one of the things that is tough because I feel like success for me is, you know, when I can connect people, when I can help people, um, when I can do work that I really enjoy, but also have like a balance of spending time with my family and doing activities I really enjoy. Success to me is being able to live a life that I feel proud of and that I feel like I've made a difference with. And like, I don't think any of those things have a dollar value that you can assign to them. And so that's what's hard in a society where a lot of the times we are, you know, sort of assigned a value based on— a dollar figure, like, you know, the car salesman assuming that, you know, you're— or the house, the mortgage lender assuming that because you're self-employed, you know, you're not going to be able to make the payments. It's like everybody thinks in terms of like, okay, how successful are you? What's your title? And what's your value in terms of your salary or how much money your company makes? And It's really hard not to get sucked into that, but I do on a daily basis remind myself that that's not how I view success. And if I were to, I could easily pursue a higher income and more work and, you know, make some kind of fancy title for myself if I wanted to. But that's not what I care about. And so it's not my, not how I value, you know, or label success.

Well, welcome to the Yes And community, which is a herd of unicorns because everyone is not us. And like we had said about who you surround yourself with and how they kind of normalize things, I have made a tremendous amount of money and lost a tremendous amount of money. Multiple times, which ironically I'm grateful for. I'm grateful that I've had 14 companies over the last almost 2 decades because it removes the emotion out of companies and sees them rather as a tool and a vessel to make an impact and to support my family.

But at the end of the day, if everything was taken away today, which I've experienced that, Tomorrow I could wake up and do it all over again because I'm the one who is creating that success.

I'm the one who gets to measure what success looks like. And I've had the opportunity to sell companies and not have to create another company or go back to work or all of that. And at the end of the day, I wanted to. And I wanted to because I feel like if I'm given this gift of life, especially having multiple heart conditions, then I want to do something positive with it. And I'm doing something positive with it with my family. And I also want them to know that I'm building something that's going to live far beyond me, whether or not it has my name on it. It's not important to me that my name's on the side of a building, but it's important to me that people know how to build companies that support their lives and make that impact. And so, I just wanted to say that to say that not everyone is in the metrics of money and commas and all of that, because I'll just, I'll be super vulnerable with our audience for a second and aspect that I've built multimillion-dollar companies and made less than when I had a multi-six-figure company. Because I sometimes feel like building a bigger mousetrap just makes more headaches.

So yeah, it was my TED Talk. Yeah. And I mean, we've— I, I've done things in the past where it's like just me. I've, you know, worked with bigger companies. I've brought, you know, we had a co-founder initially. And so yeah, like just seeing all those different structures, like sometimes I just lean back into being a solopreneur because there's so much less expense with that too. And so even if you're not making a ton of money, like I, I mean, I could literally make a couple hundred bucks a month and cover my expenses. Yeah. So it's really like, you know, sometimes the bigger it is. Yeah. The more, the more, um, the, the less you make sometimes, honestly. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's what you wanna do. I mean, yeah.

Well, a question that I typically end with, Miss Kate, is what is your definition of a Yes And lifestyle?

Oh my gosh, this is like a hard question for me because I want to do all the things.

So it's a yes and, and, and, and, and. Okay.

So I think maybe a Yes And lifestyle to me is like You can have like two conflicting things happening, and that may be like having kids and having a business, or being a military spouse and, um, having a business, or, you know, whatever those, those things are. But I think yes and means like yes to one and yes to something that may not may seem like it's counter to the thing that you said yes to initially, if that makes sense. But I just like, I'm constantly trying to include all the things that I wanna do and they don't always all fit. So yes and for me doesn't mean yes to all the things, but maybe yes to things that you may not think could be coexisting Mm, I love that.

Do you have an example in your life? Like something that's alive for you right now? We discussed the military spouse and business owner, but something that's alive for you right now?

Yeah, I mean, the, the spouse and business owner thing that's alive for me right now is that we are about to PCS this summer. We're about to move to a new location overseas. And I'm still keeping my business going.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, some people think that that's kind of crazy, but to me it's like I've been building this for years and I love it and I'm gonna keep it going. So yeah, that's like the biggest example in my mind right now because we're packing right now.

I love that. I love that.

So, yeah, but I mean, I also do a lot, I mean, I also do a lot of other things like when I was pregnant with my daughter, I was 9 months pregnant to the day, and I went in for my interview for the MBA program that I'd applied for. And the dean of the school was like, she saw me walk in and she's like, whoa, okay, when are you due? And I'm like, tomorrow. But this, you know, the program, the interview was 9 months before the program started. And so, you know, my daughter was 9 months old when I started my MBA program and, uh, and it was a part-time program and I'm like, this makes perfect sense. Like, she's not gonna know I'm not home on Tuesday nights. Like, you know, so, um, that was something that I think was a yes and example, um, for me too.

I absolutely love that. Uh, having you just met my 3-month-old, you know, um, I do have the benefit of him being my my third. And so I, I figured, I figured out how to hold for all of it. The biggest thing to tie this in a bow though, the biggest thing that I've learned is to do podcasts with people that know that I'm a professional and a mom, and to work with clients that not just tolerate me nursing on a client call, but know that me being a good mom doesn't make me less of a professional. Knowing that me having turquoise hair, the color of my hair, doesn't impact my ability to do my work.

And that's where the community aspect of it has really helped in setting those expectations. And, you know, getting on this call and being like, there's a hungry 3-month-old in this house that will most likely have to come and nurse. And I think because when you're able to hold that energy for yourself, other people are like, oh, okay, Because it's the difference between asking if it's okay to live your life in an aligned way and living your life in an aligned way, non-negotiable and confidently.

Mm-hmm. 100%. And, and I think that's, that's magnetic. You know, people see that and realize like, oh, I could do that too. Yeah. Or, and they feel, you know, they feel safe and accepted in a place where where, you know, typically they may not. So I love that.

And thank you for you being on board with it. That's just— this is such a special time in my life and a special place for me to be sharing this time with others. So thank you for being a part of that.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Happy to accommodate whatever.

And thank you to the production team for editing out the baby screams that went into Kate's ear while I could not transition. During nursing quick enough for him. So, well, Kate, thank you so much for being a part of this podcast episode and just being so vulnerable and sharing so openly and honestly. I know that that resonates with our audience. So I just, again, for the millionth time, want you to know how grateful I am for you being here and making time for the podcast.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me and asking probing questions. I think it's so important to, to talk about this stuff and yeah, let people know that that, you know, everybody's trying to find their way and, um, we can, we can do it. We just have to be true to, to the things that matter to us and find people that'll support us along the way.

I love that. Well, to you, the listener who has taken us in the car or in the shower or wherever it is that you were listening to this episode while you were building your left Yes And lifestyle or living your Yes And lifestyle proudly and confidently, just want to give you a huge shout out and let You know that you're the reason that we're here and recording these and sharing so that you have not just the support and the energy, but also the tangible steps to be able to continue to have whatever your definition of success is. So until the next time, I am your host Bunny Young. Kate was our guest today. We're going to link all of her goodness below this episode. Give us a shout out on social media, share this episode, rate this episode. That's how we know what you love and what to give you more of. And I'll see you on the next episode of The and podcast.