Neuro-Marketing w. Jacqueline Yvette

Who is this person? Where do they want to go? What are the problems that they have that they don't want to have anymore? Because your work is the thing that helps them move away from the problem and closer to the result. I thought I hated business because I thought it was all, like, suits and corner offices and briefcases and boring. I realized that marketing was the intersection between creativity and, like, innovative business. The more that I had concrete evidence that, like, I know what I'm talking about, I do have something to offer. You know, those stories were untrue and that those thoughts and patterns were a lie.

Welcome back to another episode of the yes and Podcast. I am your host and serial entrepreneur taking you on this journey of today's episode of the yes and Podcast. I didn't say my name, though, but I'm Bunny Young. In case we haven't met. I have brought somebody really special to me. I hope to you as well. And this is the person behind some of the most beloved messaging on social media and the Internet from a lot of the most pop coaches. And I would say, what's that word? Influencers in the market right now. And her neuromarketing method, like from somebody who has a master's degree in psychology, I think is just absolutely brilliant. And you guys are going to love it because even though the title sounds, like, super gnarly, it's super simple. So I would highly encourage you to follow my guest and we're going to get into something juicy and very much something that I think is gonna resonate with a lot of you. I think it's gonna resonate with everybody because I think everybody has been there. So without further delay, I'm gonna bring on the beautiful and the talented Jackie. You wanna say hi to everybody?

Hi, everybody.

Well, let's start with some street cred here, because what I've noticed is that for all of the things that you have done and all of the seven, eight, and nine figure entrepreneurs that I have met that know you and then have worked with you, you don't put a lot of that out there. Plus, you have this incredible corporate career and background that you came from too, so. So why don't. Why I'm gonna give you the microphone to kind of hype yourself up for a second.

Oh, okay. Yes. This is something that I don't often do, but yeah. Hi, everybody. My name is Shakli Nivett. You can call me Jackie. And I'm so excited to be here with Bunny because I adore her and anyone who knows Bunny is pretty awesome. In my book. Yeah. So I've been an entrepreneur. I've run various businesses since I was honestly, a kid, but really got started as, like, a true entrepreneur when I was in college. And I started my first business in my dorm room out of happenstance because I was very depressed, very anxious, did not know what I was going to do with my life. Everyone around me was going to be a teacher or a doctor or just wanted to get married and have kids and whatever. None of. None of that. There's nothing wrong with any of that. And it did not fit for me. And I was, man, I want to do my own thing. I want to leave some sort of really big impact on the world, and I don't know what that's going to look like. And I want to be creative, and I want to make enough that I can give back a ton and that I can, like, spend my days the way I want to spend them. You know, the whole freedom thing, you guys are all about that, so you get it. And I was in college going, I spent my life savings to come here. What do I do now? Like, what do I do? None of the majors that I looked at on the, you know, course catalog made sense to me. And I was like, I don't know what to do. And it ended up resulting in some really intense, really, really int. Anxiety and depression to the point where I could not get out of my dorm room. Like, I literally would start to walk to class, even the ones I liked. Like, I would start to walk to class. I'd get halfway there. I'd be in the middle of the quad, and my vision would black out. I would get tunnel vision and, like, sweaty and shaky, and I couldn't get my legs to move anymore. And I had to turn around, go back to my dorm room. And it was kind of a mess. And so the only classes that I could complete were the ones that I could do online. Even then, I was getting, you know, I was failing things. And I ended up failing so many classes that I was like, this is not. This is not working. And I went home. I went home to Chicago. I transferred. And I felt like a huge failure. And during that time, I did the only thing that I was capable of doing. Well, there were two things. The first was writing. First thing was writing, because writing has always been the way that I process my life and what's happening with me and my emotions. And so I wrote a lot. I ended up writing music. I bought, like, a $50 guitar from Target. At the time, I convinced one of the upperclassmen who had a car on campus. I was like, hey, can you drive me to Target? Went and got like this dinky little guitar. Ended up just sitting in my dorm room, in my dorm room writing, like sad music. It was very emo. And then the other thing I was able to do was start to care for myself, to try to pull myself out of the pit of existential despair. And so I did some walks and couldn't walk to class, but I could walk around my dorm a little bit and, like, get some outdoor activity. And I did some health stuff. Like I was eating well and I was trying to take care of myself. And slowly but surely, I educated myself a ton. I've always been very much into health and wellness and fitness and all that, but I started to feel a bit better and educate myself a lot on health and fitness. And one thing led to another, and over the course of time, I shared all of this on Twitter, of all places. I was documenting my whole, whole journey and sharing what I was learning and things that I was liking and whatever, and ended up having people reaching out to me and saying, hey, can I. Can. Can you share your meal plan? Can you help me make one? Can you help me create a workout routine? And like, you know, I probably didn't have a whole lot of business doing that for other people. Looking back, I would not do that today if I wasn't, you know, fully certified and trained and all that stuff. But at the time, people were like, hey, I'll pay you 50 bucks to, like, make me a workout plan. And I was like, okay, sure, you know, and ended up. Ended up, you know, making some money on Twitt, doing fitness, like plans and meal plans and grocery plans and teaching people recipes and stuff, like in college. And I was like, oh, this is like a really interesting way to make some money online. And that was my first little tiny intro into this sort of space. It was really haphazard and not super well done. Just being totally honest. I was young, I was 19, and I, like I said, would do it very much differently today, but yeah, so anyway, I ended up transferring back home and getting therapy and help to fix what was going on there. And slowly but surely got my spark back. And from there, I ended up walking around my, like, local town, my hometown, and I stumbled into a local boutique, and it was owned by these two 30something moms. They were really cute and sweet and they were very talkative. And I would go in there and I'd chat them up and like, buy some things, like I didn't have much money at the time, but I'd buy like a candle or like, you know, it was a pair of earrings or something like that. And they had the sweetest little store. And they, I overheard them talking one day and they said, you know, we may have to close, we might have to close. And I was nosy and so I jumped in and I was like, hey, did I hear you say that you're shutting down? And they were like, yeah, we're just not getting enough foot traffic in here. Like we've tried for months, we don't know what to do and we're probably gonna have to shut it down. And I immediately sprung into action and I was like, no, no, no, you know, have you, have you partnered with local businesses? What's your social media look like? Do you do online sales? Have you done. And I started throwing out all these ideas to them and they just stared at me with like this blank look and I was like, all right. And they were like, can you, can you do it? Can you help us? Can you do something like that? And I was like, me, like, yeah, you clearly know something about this. And I was like, I mean, okay, sure. They're like, we'll give you free clothes. And I was like, in, I'm in, let's do this. So I said yes. And for the next several months, as I was like finding my way, I helped them out and I put together with them a series of campaigns. We got them in like a local magazine. We partnered with other businesses nearby in the, you know, just in the little like strip mall that they were located in. We developed a, like a box, like a box service where people can go and fill out a quiz online. We ship them a box full of hand selected items, they pay for the ones they want to keep and then they ship the rest back or come in and return it. And this was right, you did all.

Of this for free clothes?

Yeah, I told you I didn't, you know, I didn't really know what's in.

Do you still have the clothes?

Uh huh, some of it, yeah. Yeah, I have like a pair of, pair of shoes that I really like and a jacket.

Well, at least that's a good roi.

Yeah, no, it actually was great because it was clarifying for me because at the end, at the end, and this was just over like a couple of months and I managed, managed all their social media. It was great. And then over by the end of the time, like a couple months, I think it was like a four month period. I Said, how's it going? And they were like, well, we get to stay. We don't have to move, we don't have to shut down, we don't have to pull our kids out of school and change locations. Like, we get to stay and it's working. And I was like, mission accomplished. Awesome. And that feeling felt, it was such an indescribable feeling seeing that I could impact someone in that way and their family and their business and like, it's their business, baby. And I was able to help them keep it, you know. And that experience was so life giving that it like, it was like something that was laying dormant in me was awakened. And I was like, wow, this is the type of work that I want to do and this is magnificent. And I remember having this light bulb moment, like standing outside of their store, it was freezing in Chicago and I'm walking out afterward and I had this moment where I said, holy shit, I like business. And all this time, you know, I grew up with family members who were entrepreneurs and things like this. And I thought I hated business because I thought it was all like suits and corner offices and briefcases and boring. And when I realized that I can have that, I realized that marketing was the intersection between creativity and like innovative business. And I was like, oh, business doesn't have to be boring. It's actually really great. And I can be creative and there's actual people connected to it and their lives are impacted by this. And I get to bring writing, which I love, and all these awesome ideas together. And I was like, it was like this light bulb went off and I was like, like, oh, that's it. I'm meant to do this. I am meant to help entrepreneurs to spread their message and mission like wildfire. I am meant to help them communicate it powerfully and get their work into the hands of people who need it. I am meant to lift up people with like innovative dreams and ideas that better the world. Like, this is what I'm supposed to do. And it was such a eye opening experience. So I ended up going back to school. I ended up getting a degree in business and marketing and studied media and communications. And ended up this whole series of this whole rabbit hole ensued where I was working multiple jobs, I was consulting agencies that I got connected through, you know, got connected with through school. And from professors, you know, I went to a school where the professors had their own businesses and were teaching on the side. And so it was like they were popping in from their business to come teach you. And so they would Then, like, connect you to the two people. It was. It was very serendipitous. And I ended up connecting some really incredible brands and celebrities and, you know, like, coaches who were, like, the top coaches in the space at the time. Like, I ended up connecting with the number one dating and relationship coach in the country at that time, and her name is Bella Gandhi, and she's incredible. And she was so fantastic. And she was, you know, flying people in from all over the world to come and, like, take photos for their dating app site for their dating sites and things like that. And she was consulting them on dates. And it was very much like how relationship coaching is online now. But she was doing it all in person. She was on TV 24 7. And I ended up helping her to develop her online, the online side of her business. And she was on TV constantly. And so she was always inviting me, like, hey, do you want to be on this TV show? Do you want to do this or that with me on tv? And I was like, sure. And so I ended up on tv. I had a segment on the Steve Harvey show. It was a whole thing. And then I ended up getting connected with TedX and was their social media director in Chicago. So I was able to, like, market the TEDx talks and, you know, work in that. And it was. It was a whole thing. It was incredible. I learned so much. So in my marketing, you know, experience, I've worked with giant companies, you know, agencies and big brands like Adidas and, you know, big companies like that, where I was able to consult as part of an agency or consult the agency on certain things and take part in certain projects and campaigns and things like that. And then also individuals and influencers and, like, standalone artists, as well as coaches and consultants and, you know, some of my. My own smaller, you know, projects like, like the Twitter thing, like, and then brick and mortar stores. It was. I feel like I've had a wide experience with helping people to grow and shift their businesses and adjust their marketing to make more sales and to reach more people. And now this really long story takes us back to the present, which is today, where I am now working with entrepreneurs, online coaches, consultants, trainers, people doing transformational work. And I'm helping them to communicate the value of what they're offering really, really effectively and create what we call instant resonance that is part of the neuromarketing method, so they can sell out their offers and spread their message like crazy and bring in the right people. And everything I teach is rooted in psychology and human behavior, and that is What I've been doing now for many, many years. And I work with people all over the world and it's absolutely my favorite thing ever. And I love it.

Yeah, I know I'm supposed to be sitting here asking you questions and I was just leaning in and listening to that story because I don't think I've heard that entire story. Right. I was introduced to you from a mutual friend that is a multiple seven figure coach, multiple time multiple seven figure coach in a bunch of different industries. And so there's a level of trust there. And I remember us having a conversation. I think I was like sitting at the bar in my house. We don't have a bar in my house, but we have a bar around the kitchen. We should have a bar. The way that my house is functioning right now. And it's incredible when I hear that story to be like, this is something that you did for me too. I want to say that with, oh, this person wants to work with me. And. And when I hear that story, I'm like, wow, Jackie, you know, and this is, this is what you're spending your time doing. Like is. Is giving back. And something that was really powerful that you did for me when we were sitting there the first time that we were chatting is you mirrored back what I've done in my life and how that's kind of like unicorn level. And I remember you saying you started your first company that you sold at 17. I'm like, huh? And. And you were like, well, bunny people, people don't typically do that. What I want to jump into because huge barrier for me and hopefully this is of service to everybody else is this imposter syndrome. Because there's two things and you can take this however you want to go. One is the imposter syndrome and the marketing. Right. And so not really seeing how freaking amazing you are. And then the second that you get on me all the time about and everybody listening is going to have to land this to see if this has gotten any better in the past five months. Is making it tangible. And we can use like a real example. You know, I had said I want to help people build companies that support their personal freedom. And you're like, huh? What does that mean? I'm like, I don't know. Wherever you want to go with that, I will follow you.

Yep. Tangibility is extremely, extremely important. And so there are two things that you brought up. The first is imposter syndrome, and the second is that tangibility when it comes to your marketing. So which, which one do you want to start with? Because I feel like those are somewhat different directions.

Yeah, I really do think that the imposter syndrome is something to kind of land because. And you're. If you're to leaning into the anxiety that you felt, because this is something that I think I had as a business owner is the anxiety of like, who's going to pay me to do this? Or then you make the sale and then it's kind of the, oh, shit, like now I'm responsible for this outcome. And I think that does come across in a lot of marketing and messaging.

It does, absolutely. And I think people can feel it too. When you feel like you are not worthy of it, you're not worthy of the sale or the client or whatever, I think people can sense that. And you know, for me, I am a long time people pleaser and I have spent a lot of time working on that. And I realized that that came from. Well, one of, one of the areas that that came from was my fear of disappointing people. And I just could not handle it emotionally if I thought somebody was upset with me or mad at me. And it felt like all love being. And that felt like dying. It felt like I could not survive with someone being upset with me and not, you know, that just felt. That felt so awful. And so especially I think because I was such a young entrepreneur and still am in the beginning, I was very aware of that because every single person I would talk to would be like, how old are you? And then I would tell them, they'd be like, wow. And I could see the wheels turning where they were like doing math of like, how long could she have possibly been doing this? Does she have enough experience? Can she actually help me? How much money do I think she makes? Like, can she actually help me in my situation? And that was like my own projection that I thought they were judging me. But it would usually, when they would ask that question, it would almost always be followed with like, you are so good and so wise for so young. Like, I'm so impressed. But even still in my head, I took it as like, oh God, they think I can't help them. They think I'm too young. It would stress me out. And so then I always just kind of backed it up with like, well, I need to prove it. Like, I need to make sure that they know that I can handle it, that I've got it, that I'll take care of them, that I'll make sure that they get what they need or whatever. And I put that on myself. That it was my responsibility to make sure everyone gets results. And as you know, as someone who helps people in business, like that is a near impossible task because there are so many variables that go into the results that someone gets in their business and their business is their responsibility. And a consultant or an educator is just one small variable in the soup of variables that make up a successful business. Which is why I celebrate my clients wins, but I don't take credit for them. What you built is, is you, right? But I'm glad to be a part of it, but it's. I didn't do that. And I think that that's important too because I see this a lot where people will take credit for their clients results and then they'll be like, well, it's up to you when they have a failure, when they have a setback or something. And I think that that's not fair. But anyway, yeah, I mean I had a lot of imposter syndrome and it, it impacted the way that I showed up and the biggest way that it impacted working so hard to prove that I had a right to be in the room that I burnt myself out because.

Prove to who?

To them mostly, but also to myself at the core, right. And I thought it was them, but it also was me trying to show me that like I got it because at this point I don't care, you know, and like I know that I'm worthy, right? And I know my, my place in a room. And I also, you know, know that there's always more to learn, you know, I'm not, I have the humility to know that like, like the more that we, the more that we know, the more that we understand how much we don't know. Right? And I am less self conscious and less feeling like I need to prove and earn my spot in every room that I go into or with every client when what was interesting is like even after they had paid me, even after they had said yes, I want to work with you, here's the money. I still felt like I needed to prove that they did the right thing, that they made the right decision. And so I spent so long burning myself out, burning the candle at both ends, like running myself ragged, trying to go above and beyond for every single person I worked with. And it burnt me out to no end. And I really had to take a look at that and decide to choose something different and shift that pattern and show up differently for my business. Otherwise my business wouldn't exist. And so that was a, that was a tough, a tough thing. For me.

So what steps did you take that you would say led you to recover from imposter syndrome? Or is it something that you're still dealing with?

I wouldn't say I deal with it much now. However, it is, I think, an ongoing thing. It's something that I didn't. I didn't go, okay, step one, two, three. Now I'm done. It was something that I. I woke up one day and just sort of realized, like, I don't really feel that all that much or it wasn't even that I woke up and realized it. It was like, over time, I just noticed it less and didn't see it. I didn't notice those thoughts as much, you know, and, like, I had lots of. Of coaches and therapists in my life. And one of the things that they teach you, of course, is like, to monitor your own thoughts and to be aware of, like, what are those running thought patterns in the back of your mind? And the ones that were there for a long time just sort of stopped being there. They got quieter. Those voices became not as. Not as intrusive and loud. And now I don't really notice them at all. And I think that that happened over time. And one thing that really helps is, like, just getting in the game, right? Like, the more that I had concrete evidence that, like, I know what I'm talking about and that I do have something to offer, something to share in the way of, like, a business experience and all of that, the more that I proved to myself that, you know, those stories were untrue and that those thoughts and patterns were a lie. But it took a while to believe it. So hard evidence helps client results. Obviously, as part of that, like, seeing my clients winning and going like, hey, I think that, like, maybe it's not all a fluke. Maybe I do kind of know something that kind of set in at one point, and the confidence builds. And I think that that's. That's just really what it is, is it's confidence, right? And I was deeply insecure about my ability to do what I wanted to do for a long time. But, of course, everybody has to start somewhere. And, you know, I had to earn it and show myself that, you know, I do. I do have this. But I also dedicated myself to lifelong learning and practice of my craft. You know, I'm. Even now, to this day, every single month, I'm still investing in things that help me get better at what I do. I don't rest on my laurels in a sense where I', oh, I know Everything there is to know. I'm fine, I got this. I'm good. I trust myself and I'm confident enough to know that I can help people. But I also am always learning and I'm a perpetual student and I think that that helps too, because I trust that regardless of anything that happens, AI or however the industry shifts, I am always learning and I'm always going to be fine because I know the core principles and I'm a perpetual student and I continue to learn. So I think those are some of the pieces that really made a difference for me.

And now I want to talk to you about AI and for our listeners. You guys get a really unique gift in this aspect that Jackie and I have worked so closely together and I feel so comfortable having this conversation with her that you guys get to know the nitty gritty behind the scenes of my own business. In the aspect that we had started a campaign that you and I worked on. And I think you remember this. Some of the feedback, and let's say it was like 1% of the feedback was like, this is a scam. This is an mlm, because it was around me taking last year off and still having a company that was producing revenue and was supporting my family and being able to take that time off. And again, let's put it in perspective that it was like less than 1% of the feedback and yet I hyper fixated on that because there's a part of me this goes in with the imposter syndrome. It wasn't necessarily imposter syndrome, but I did have guilt. My key programming used to be you have to work hard to make money. And that was something that you really helped me with, being able to. To kind of put it in perspective. And so I'm curious if that's something that you would consider as being a part of your journey and how you've coached other people or if I'm just the unique unicorn in this. That's the only one that's ever received negative feedback on social media or trolls on the Internet. And you're more than welcome to tell me I'm the only one.

Yeah, it's just you. No, everyone deals with this. And man, people bold on the Internet, let me tell you. I mean, you know this, right? But there is. I have, I have yet to encounter anyone with more audacity than people in Facebook ad comment sections. I mean, it is insane how intense they lay it down in the Facebook ads. It's crazy. Yeah. I remember when you, when you brought that to me and were like, yeah, people are saying, like, is this an mlm? It seems like a scam. And. And I can definitely see why that would, like, rattle somebody. And I've had experiences like that for sure. Especially when I was first getting started, I had friends close to me even who sat me down, almost like an intervention. And they would ask me if I was doing something illegal. Like, I had people who were like, Jackie, where is the money coming from? How. How are you lying on social media? Are you lying about those numbers? And like, it's okay, you can tell me if you are. And I was like, no, I'm not lying. Are you kidding? And I was like, it's not illegal. Do you know me? Like, I, I never drank, I never did drugs. I was like a very straight laced kid, mostly because of anxiety. And so, like, I was not the type that would be like, doing something shady on the Internet to make money, you know, like, and these were like high school friends who were like, but Jackie, I don't get it. How does it work? How are you doing this? And it rattled me because these are people who I loved and knew and they, like, didn't believe me. They didn't believe that I had started a business and that I was like, being innovative. And at the time that I started, you know, I mean, at this time with this conversation, it was like 2012, you know, it wasn't like coaching or like, even influencers were a thing. People weren't doing that stuff. Like maybe a couple, but they were like in their own little pocket of the world. And, you know, they weren't. It was not like it is now. It was not a mainstream thing to do anything on the Internet for money. Unless it was like, only fans. Yes. If it wasn't porn, people weren't doing things on the Internet for money. Or like, you know, the Kardashians on a TV show or something like that. But this didn't exist.

Like how you. The two examples you gave were porn and the Kardashians on a TV show show, which actually also started with.

With porn.

Porn.

Those were the things that.

Those are Jackie's example of how straight laced she is.

I'm saying that those are the things that, like, people knew of as how you make money online. And the rest was like, didn't exist. So, yeah, I had people saying, like, is this some sort of pyramid scheme as well? I had people questioning me too. And it kind of threw me off, but it also lit this fire where I was like, they don't need to know what it is. I'm fine. It's cool. I can figure it out. And they will be. They'll get it once. Once they. You know, once they get it. And funny enough, a lot of those people came back and, you know, years later and were like, are you hiring?

Yeah, that's. That is, like, common, too. Yeah. I just. I. I'll. I'll share this. And hopefully my mother in love is not gonna listen to this episode. I don't think she listens to these. But this will be the one episode she picks up and listens to. It's. My husband told me, because she was out here for about a week and a half, and my husband told me that she was like. Like, you know, can Bunny really afford to do this? And Steve's like, yeah. And to have my military husband who's only ever worked for a paycheck, just believe carte blanche in me was a really great reframe for me. Because the only reason that I think that conversation kind of bubbled to the top for me is because that's a question that sometimes having another kid and having the multiple companies and having people that I'm literally responsible, that I feel like I'm responsible for their family. Families in the risk that I take on. That's a question that, like, I sit with. That's the question that keeps me up at night, is like, how are you really gonna do this? And it's not 100% of the time, but that's. That is a question that I have. So the fact that this question in my brain came out of, like, this person who loves me, as you were saying with the intervention, like, this person who loves me's mouth. But she didn't ask me. She didn't question me. She questioned my husband. You know, is your wife, like, really insane? And he, like, no. Like, she'll make it happen. We've watched her do it. So I would invite you, when you're listening to what Jackie's sharing about that, to be your biggest advocate as well, because that's something that. When I heard it from somebody else, and then you see it in your chats and all of that, it's cute to me now because it's triggering something that already was living in your brain. And those thoughts don't deserve that real estate, not in a judgy way. But I'm just here to remind you, as you're listening to Jackie, like. Like, that's. Yes, you can be successful, and you can still question yourself, and you can also be your biggest coach and cheerleader. And advocate in that aspect. And so this transitions into something else that after 14 companies and 15 years, my marketing coach told me to say that repeatedly. I got a thumbs up. I still struggle with. And that's landing because 99% of my business has been organic, offline. So I don't have to explain what I do, and I don't have to explain what the outcome is because it's a referral from somebody else or somebody heard something that then they want to engage our company. So back to the example of like, what is it that I do? And you're like, funny. No, that's. That is. I think you were like, it's not tangible. And this is 99% of your clients that are delivering on a transformational experience. Because I know a lot of your clients and they're, they're coaching on different things. And when we started working together, you really wanted to focus on the money. And I had a whole lot of resistance to just promising people would make more money because if you just focus on the money, in my experience, you don't necessarily get the transformation or get the outcome. And so how do you. And I know, I. This is a funny question for me because you took me through it, but how do you coach people through that statement when you see Instagram bios that are like, I help moms be more happy?

Yeah, it's really, really common, especially because people are wanting to help people to create a big transformation. And they're likely experts in a field, right? Like they are health exper or relationship experts, or they love to do the really intangible work. Like they love to do therapy or trauma work or mindset work or leadership or embodiment or whatever it is. And all of that work is needed and beautiful and wonderful, and it can be really, really, really difficult to communicate. It can be really hard to put that into words in a way that draws in the person who you ultimately are wanting to help. And. And people get into a bit of a pickle here because what they find so interesting and so clear and so resonant is not likely what their audience finds clear and resonant and interesting. In fact, what your audience thinks is the problem that they want to shift or the outcome that they want to create is probably different than what you think it is. And so, for example, if somebody is. Is, you know, wanting to be very fulfilled in their business, they might think that they just need to make more money to do that. They might think, like, okay, once I hit this certain, like, revenue level, once I have this Great launch, then I will be more fulfilled and I'll be able to relax more and I won't be as tired or burnt out or stressed. And you might know as the expert that it's not about the launch, it's not about the sales. It's about their approach to business. It's, it's their mindset, it's what's happening on the inside. And, and a launch is not gonna fix that. They're gonna have the same experience post launch that they did before and there's gonna be a new mountaintop to get to and it's just gonna be the same thing over and over again. And we know this cause we see, we see these patterns as practitioners and mentors to people. But your audience, that audience as just as an example, does not know that, right? Like, they do not wake up and look in the mirror and go, like, I need to dig up my childhood wounds. I need to figure out which trauma pattern is in the way of me feeling fulfilled in my business and reaching the next level. And I know what to do. And I need to go find a mindset coach to help me get embodied and to figure out my underlying patterns. Like, they don't do that. They go, okay, how do I make more money faster so that I can then take a break and roll up, Right? So that's just one example. But I find that people get really stuck here because they'll do one of two things. There's a spectrum, and on one end of the spectrum is like really, really tech technical. So they'll get into very technical things. So they'll be talking about like, like I was saying, underlying patterns of trauma or like attachment styles or whatever. It is something that's like technical and specific to the jargon of that industry. And other people who do what you do might get that, but your audience might not. And then on the other end of the spectrum is like very, very vague, broad terms like abundance, fulfillment, happiness, peace, ease, flow, freedom. And all these things are wonderful. And they might use those words, but by themselves, who doesn't want those things? Everyone wants those things. And everyone sees a different picture when we say those words. Everyone's situation and experience of those things is different. So it's like really, really broad or really, really specific, but too technical, too jargony, too clinical. And we're looking for somewhere in the middle where your client's understanding is what you're speaking to. So I talk about something called market message Match and what we're looking to do here. And this is how you can reach your people more effectively. Market message match has two components, your market and your message. And so what you really want to do is make sure that the communication around your offer, your message, the words and communication that is going out is matching what your market wants, what they think. The problem is the things that they are saying to themselves that they need. So when your message matches your market's desire, that is where you find resonance. That is where you find your marketing landing for people. And that's where tangibility comes in, because it usually forces you to get really tangible. But you really want to match your message, your communication with your market's desire. And that is where they move and come forward and reach out to you. And most of the time, I see people just missing each other. You know, the content might be good. They might be saying really helpful things, but they have a mismatch what their people think they want want or what they think the problem is, is not what they're talking about, and they're just missing each other.

I think that was so beautifully explained, and I think that's gonna help a lot of people. And I haven't forgotten about our surprise. So we're gonna get to that after this last question. Cause I know that we're over. Are you down for one more question?

Go for it.

All right. So in the age of AI, I have found ways to work with AI to help me through a lot of my writer's block. And this is something, you know about me that I'm very good at speaking and. And there's so many times. And the audience is going to laugh at this, but there's so many times where I say something and you or Joey, your assistant coach, will be like, yeah, that. And I'm like, what. What the F did I just say? Like, can we go back to the recording? And this is how I end up using AI is almost like, to interview me the same way that you do. And you're coaching me. And I'm not saying that AI is as good as your coaching by any means, but it helps to be able to have it bounce off to help improve my message. And I think that's because what AI is doing is it's pulling from all over the Internet to say this is trending or engaging or whatever it is. And it helps land from what you just shared of, like, the fluffy, airy stuff. I don't typically go fluffy and airy, but I do go too technical. And one of the things we were talking about is, like, write it as if a third grader could understand or a second grader could understand. And that's something that I can plug in what I'm saying into AI. Am I using that in a way that you think is optimal? Or how, how else do you think AI can really help with all of the things that you've shared around messaging and marketing?

Yeah, great question. It can help. But my concern there would be if you were to take something and say, say this like a third grader, then they would say the same thing that you said, but in more simplistic language. But it still might not be what's resonant for your people, even if it's easier to understand. And so what I would want to do is potentially, I mean, as far as using AI as a tool, I would want to get market analysis, analysis and market research done through AI. I would want to say, I would want to tell it what your, what your goal is. Like, tell it what, who you help and who you want to reach and what you help them to do. And ask it some questions to give you some information about what that market is already buying, what they're interested in, what they think the problem is or what they're searching for. And you know better than AI is just like, go to these people and ask them, talk to them. Like, look at what they're doing, look for people already selling something similar to you and see like what people are responding to on their pages. Like, look at the Amazon books that are being sold. But you could ask AI about all this, like, what are the top selling books when it comes to this topic? And then go to Amazon and go read the reviews and read from people. I really love that you talked about this because that's something I needed help with or whatever. You know, like all of that, that's like, that's all gold for marketing, right? Like what we want to understand is who is this person, where do they want to go? What are the problems that they have that they don't want to have anymore? What are the outcomes of that they, that they want, that they don't have? And how do they talk about both of those things? Because your work is the thing that helps them, that plugs right into the middle of that. It helps them go from that A to B and move away from the problem and closer to the result. And so you want to understand what those two bookends are so that you can meet in the middle there. And anything that can help you to fill in those gaps is really, really helpful and can shorten the timeline. That's required when you go about testing in your market. When it comes to your.

I think that's a great strategy. So, yes, I've got my surprise for you and I'm going to lead into it by asking you, what are your key takeaways from 2023 and what are you looking forward to personally and professionally in 2024?

Such a tough question.

Why is that the tough question? Out of all of the imposter syndrome, the anxiety, the AI, that's the tough question.

It's like asking what my favorite movie is. It's like, how could I possibly tell you that right now?

I think your favorite movie is Elf. I've been stalking you on Instagram. It's Elf.

I watch Elf every Thanksgiving with my sister. We have our pie and we go and sit on the couch and just like, veg out. And we watch Elf every single year and we just quote the entire thing together. And then we start doing our Black Friday shopping and it is glorious and we do it every year, but we're not allowed to watch it outside of that day. So it's like the only day all year that we watch that movie. And I love it so much.

My favorite movie is Princess Love.

Love Princess Bride. And I think these are my two favorites. Parent Trap is one, and then how to Lose a guy in 10 days is the other. And those are two of my favorite movies.

Have you seen Count of Monte Cristo? Yes, that's my second favorite movie.

Yes.

Yes. Okay. Your 2023 takeaways.

So 2023 takeaways. Yeah. Gosh, I learned so much this year. I think one of the big things that stands out to me, me, is that a healthy, peaceful entrepreneur is essential to a healthy, successful, peaceful business. And it seems so simple. But I can't tell you how many friends, peers, clients who I've watched over the past 10 years build a successful business and then burn it all to the ground because they're so burnt out and exhausted and can't seem to find out their way out, or they can't seem to figure out how to shift it without total destruction. And I have seen so many people tear down their businesses, quit, or just like, fall apart mentally, physically land themselves in the hospital. Like, I have seen this left and right over the years and always looked at it and said, like, that's not going to be me. I'm not going to do that to myself. And then at some point, like, it kind of caught up to me little bit. And it sort of happened a bit and not fully not to that extent. But to the point where I, I went and I got, I got some like hormone testing done and got my results back and learned that I am in like pretty intense burnout. And I've been operating that way for a long time to the point where, like, I didn't really notice. I just, you know, because I love my work, I love showing up for my people, I love creating, I love doing all of it. I wasn't like unhappy happy, but I was noticing some health stuff popping up and I didn't even realize that it was stress because I've been just. I perform well when stressed. I perform well under pressure. That's my, that's my pattern, you know, and I didn't realize it. And then when I went and got some tests done, I realized that I, you know, was in like pretty intense hormone and adrenal burnout. Like, your cortisol is supposed to peak and then go like this throughout the day. And mine is a straight line. It's like, it's like a fuse was blown because it was so high for so long that it just. And now it's a straight line. So I have what they call a flat curve when it comes to cortisol. And I function pretty okay. Like, I'm a, I'm a functional burned out person. But like, the burnout is there and it could get worse. It could cause more issues. And so that has been something that was sobering for me and helped me to see that just because you can keep going and push harder and like do more doesn't mean you should should. And so it helped remind me to pace myself and that not everything needs to be done immediately. You know, I have so much that I want to do. Like, I have some really, really. We'll have to do another episode because I could hear more about this. But I have some really, really big projects that I'm working on in the education space and just some really, really exciting stuff, other businesses. And I'm very, very, very much on fire with the work that I do. And I know that taking care of me is essential to being able to do those things. And so that was a really, really big takeaway for me this year is that pulling back and tending to myself even more than I feel like is necessary is the key to getting ahead versus pushing and saying, well, I can work another hour late at night or I can get up early, or I can skip lunch and just keep working. You know, those things don't seem like a big deal when you do them, but then they act add up and then you look back and go like, I kind of burnt out a little bit. So it's something that I really encourage anyone listening to take into account early because those are habits that will make you successful long term. I wish that I did more of this early on. I've been like a, I've always had like a really strong push, harder work, work ethic, like ever since I was in high school, you know, with school and tests and all that stuff and being a, an athlete also. And I just pushed really, really hard and always have and like hanging out. But it catches up to you and it does slow you down in the long run instead of like it does the opposite of what you think it's going to do. That has been a really, really, really big lesson for me and a very frustrating one. But it was necessary.

You're speaking all of my language and moving into 2024, I want to see how that lesson, with everything you just shared about the other companies, I think you were speaking my lesson, my language in so many facets there with the burnout and talking to a business therapist and starting new ventures. So I'm curious What's happening in 2024?

Yes, I will share, I will share all the details with you as they firm up, but I am writing a book and there are a few other exciting things that I'll share more about when they become clearer. But it's going to be really exciting. I'm very much looking forward to it, so I'll share with. I'll keep you posted.

Well, so for my 2024, I'm looking forward to moving back home and being your neighbor again. So.

Great. Are you bringing your horses?

I don't know. But that, that is like my big, that is my big surprise is that I, you know, we had talked about moving back and I put all the intention out there and then I, I think I didn't get a chance to tell you, but it's like we came home and back to the east coast and I just kind of settled into everything. Like having nine trips in 12 weeks. I think landing it was really easy to get back into kind of the routine. And as of this morning, like, my dad literally walked in and was like, okay, so we're doing this. And I was like, what do you, what do you mean? He's like, I just, I just talked to my boss and put in for a position on the west coast. And it's such a transformative moment or a transformational moment for me to have my dad be like, you Manifested this and just as an only child to be like, you want to go back home? We're going to bet on you. And go full circle with the whole imposter syndrome thing and messaging. It's like you say it so much that you believe it and everybody else kind of holds the mirror and believes it. Did I ever doubt that we were going to move back to California? No. And yet when you get back in an environment that's familiar, it's easy to just kind of drop in and go back to like, quote unquote normal. And so when he walked in this morning and within a matter of hours, it was like it went from we're moving back to California to we're moving to Huntington beach to we're finding a house to just all, all of this kind of stuff. And you can feel like my energy is getting so excited on it. And I'm like, I also am having a kid, so we're gonna wait and have the baby and then we'll, we'll make the cross country move. And one of my horses, the one that I shared with you from the maternity sh is 23 years old and has some health stuff. And so, like, he won't be making the move. So we're going to keep our house here and just all come back and forth and. And he has an amazing, amazing life here and he's so well loved, even if I'm not here. So he'll be taken care of. And if you're asking me if you and I can go riding, the answer is absolutely, like, yay.

Just makes me so happy. And I love that you shared this too, because I really can relate to that. I. I was that person in my family too, you know, Grew up in Chicago. My whole family was there. My extended family was out in California. So I visited a lot and I knew that I wanted to live here. But for almost five years ago now, I decided on a whim. I mean, I had wanted to for a long time, but I decided, okay. It was like, it was like November ish. And I was like, I'm finding a place. My business is doing well. I'm going to move to California. Even though I don't have no one really, like, nearby, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. And I had, like I said cousins and things like that. But, like, my immediate family was all in Chicago. And so I went on Craigslist and I found a place there that looked fake. Like, it looked like it was like a scam listing. So I wasn't expecting Anything. But I sent a message and said, hey, this looks perfect. It's beautiful. This, like, cute little beach house. The price was good. They're renting it out. And I got a message back in the morning, and they were like, hey, can we FaceTime you today and show it to you? And I was like, oh, my God, they're real. Okay. And so I expected again, for it to be some sort of scam. And I get on FaceTime and I talk with the owner, and she was so sweet and so kind, and her little ones were running around in the background. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is actually it. And they showed me the place. It was furnished, so I didn't have to buy any furniture. And it was like a perfect scenario. I ended up moving out there and just by myself and figured it out, and it was amazing. And then a couple years later, I. In 2020, when everything was about to shut down, my parents were like, that's it. We're not doing another winter in Chicago. They put the house on the market. And this was the house that I grew up in, like, 20 something years in that house. And they sold my childhood home. They packed everything up in the car. They drove from Chicago out to California. And so now my parents live out here, like, 30 minutes from me. And now. Now my sister is working on moving out here. And so I was sort of the pioneer who started the trend. Now they all are kind of coming, and my brother and his kids and his wife are going to be out here in the next few years. And it. Yeah, it's a leap of faith right where you, like, are leading your loved ones in that way, because I didn't know it was going to happen or if it was all going to work out. But I have this, like, knowing also that this is what's supposed to happen.

Yeah.

And it worked out. And I'm really glad that you're doing that. You're doing that and that you're trusting the nudge because it's. That's where beautiful things happen. And, you know, isn't it interesting, too, to observe the thing you were just talking a little bit ago about comments that people made about, like, can they afford that? Is that possible?

Yeah.

And now, years later, here you are making it happen for your family, potentially. Some of the people who even, like, doubted in the beginning, and I know that's true for me. I had so many people, like aunts, you know, aunts and uncles and cousins and people who, you know, whispers who were like, can she afford that? Can she make that happen? Like, she's moving to San Diego, she's gonna live in a beach house. Like where's she gonna get. You know, like I had all sorts of whispers and now, you know, I was the one who got my whole family out here. And so I see just a mirror in that, in your story. And I'm proud of that and I hope you are too. Cause I think it's just a really, really cool part of that journey.

I am living that, being proud right now and kind of stepping into that warm water. And my mother in law's comment was like two weeks ago. It wasn't like decades ago. And, and it just, it shows you as well to just be like, hold the vibration.

Yep.

And surround yourself with people that, that hold that vibration as well. And you know, we're, we're, we're making it happen. And you're right about all of the comments. And I'm not gonna say all of the comments, but I get comments from clients. Everybody's leaving California, it's so expensive. Why are you going there? And I'm like, well, because now there's a mass exodus, so it's cheaper to go come.

So you know what, there's been so many people who have left, but also a lot of my friends who left ended up coming back because they were like, there's nothing like California and it's worth it. Like I, I've lived in other places and yes, it's expensive, but for me personally and my life, I don't, you know, I don't have a bunch of kids and like, for me it's totally 100%, no question worth it. And now that my family's out here, it makes sense. But even if I did have kids, like I have, you know, the, my, my previous landlord who I, I was living with in my first house out here, you know, living in her space. She has three kids and you know, has her own business and she's, she's loving it and her kids are growing up like by the sea. You know, it's just absolutely incredible. You know, it's so, it's so, it's so amazing. So I think it's totally worth it personally.

Well, that's why we're friends and that's why we'll hang out and go surfing.

Yes. I actually don't know how to surf. I need to learn, but I do, you know how to ride a horse and so I want to do that.

Yes, we'll go surfing and we'll ride a horse. I am not the person to teach you how to surf. However, I will go with you as we learn. I know how to surf. I just. My husband has pointed out that is not a skill that I have is teaching surfing.

Noted.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here and I cannot wait to hear the episode feedback. And so I'd strongly encourage you, the audience, to engage with Jackie on Instagram, on Facebook. We're going to link all of that in the show notes, let her know how this episode impacted you, what takeaways you are taking away. That was redundant and awesome. How's that for messaging and if you want to come hang out with us on the beaches of sunny Southern California. So, Jackie, thank you so much for being on the S and podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a blast. And if anyone wants to connect and if anything in here resonated with you, I would love to hear from you. You feel free to reach out. I do have a Facebook community called the New Wave and Bunny will link it up. Right? I think. I think it's in there.

Yeah, absolutely.

And if you want to jump in there, I do a marketing class every single Friday, so you can jump on those. They're free. And I'd love to connect with you. So thank you so much for having me here, Bunny. I really appreciate you and this conversation has been so fun.

I know we had, like, 15 different topics in one episode, so cannot wait to hear all of the feedback and tag us in your takeaways on social media. And hop into Jackie's classes on Friday. They're absolute gold. And then I'll also link her new offers that she's going to surprise us with in the show notes as well, so that it's really easy to get connected with Jackie. So here to stay connected with you. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the yes and Podcast. And until the next episode, thank you for making the world a better place. Keep going out and getting after it and building your business as well as the life of your dreams. Bye now.