Unlocking the Power of Plant Medicine w. Lindsay Roselle

I think it's really interesting from a therapeutic perspective to be like, do you take drugs? Oh, no. But I take medicine.

I want to be the best mother. So if I want to be the best mother I can be, I have to be the most whole self aware aligned version of myself. And if psilocybin's gonna help me get there or LSD is gonna help me get there, I wanna do it.

It was a political money decision because why use something that is cheaper and natural to make that is more effective when you can have somebody taking a pill for every single day for the next 30 years of their life. Welcome back to another episode of the yes and Podcast. You are here because you want to uplevel your life and you are looking for that other than normal setting that will allow you to live that life that you desire with less overwhelm and less stress. Which is why today I'm so stoked we have like, probably one of our more controversial episodes, not for my audience, but for the world right now. And it's all also going to be one of my favorite episodes. I already know that because I have brought one of my good friends on to chat about all things psychedelics, all things plant medicine, psychic surgery. Like, we're, we're just going to go anywhere and everywhere. Plus, on Instagram, you guys had given me some questions that you want to chat about on this podcast episode. And so we are going to sneak into this episode and I'm bringing you my good friend Lindsay Roselle of the Motherlode podcast and a whole bunch of other things that I'm going to link below this show. But we're just going to jump right into it. Hey, Lindsay.

Hi. Yay. I'm excited. That was quite the intro, dude.

I just riffed the whole thing. So, you know, we can go, we can start with a variety of different ways. Most of the listeners know that I'm a retired therapist and that unconventional is kind of my thing. And that's a really good description of Lindsay as well. Unconventional. Wouldn't you agree?

I do. I like that word.

Yeah.

I mean, I think unconventional to me gets at this idea of like, just not afraid to tell the truth. For some reason in America, that's unconventional. But I just try to live my life in alignment and when that takes me down paths that are like, outside of the norm, I'm. I try to like, be as authentic with that as possible and say why I came to the decision to do it, especially with psychedelics, like why I've integrated them into my life. And I know that is unconventional coming from where I live and the way I was raised and all the things on the external radar of judgment, but I like to think the unconventional people tend to have insights or stories or life experiences that if you can get past the bias and learn and actually ask questions and learn about it and understand it more. Some of the things that we write off as like, oh, that's out there, New age or illegal, in this case, it's actually you learn things where you're like, oh, wow, maybe I want to try it.

Yeah. And so. So I want to jump right into the legality of it because it's only been illegal for the past 40 years still. That's. That's less than one generation. And so, like, it's just. I kind of. I don't want to say it's relative because legal is legal, but especially, like, we're just going to go right into it, what we've dealt with as females in the United States over the past 10 months. And just seeing how what's legal and what's not legal doesn't always necessarily align with our highest and best interest in humanity and with, like, civil rights. And so my perspective. And you can give. Absolutely. You can give your perspective on this is. I think it's really interesting from a therapeutic perspective to be like, do you take drugs? Oh, no, but I take medicine. And really, like, what the difference is there? And my perspective on this, the really short perspective, is that it was a money decision, it was a political money decision, because why use something that is organic and cheaper and natural to make that is more effective when you can have somebody taking a pill for every single day for the next 30 years of their life and create that dependency? And so I just, I wanted to start there with a stigma of legality on it and say that that's. That is a decision that might have been made. Not in the. Necessarily the most. How would you say it? Like, beneficial for humanity.

Yeah, I mean, there's so much to this. The first thing I'll say is I'm the daughter of a criminal defense attorney, so I was raised in, like, the DARE era, hearing from my dad constantly that drugs are bad and if you ever get caught with drugs, it's gonna ruin your life, you know, so, like, for me to be in the world of psychedelics, and I'm not even that far in, like, I am not a psychonaut in any sense. Like, I. I've had a few. A few deep journeys and then I microdose, which is, to me, Microdosing is very medicinal and I'm, I'll touch on, on that. But, but even, even me stepping into it to the extent that I have still feels to me very edgy because of the, of the conditioning. A lot of us, especially as millen from how we grew up, where it was so beaten into us that any drug was gonna fry your brain and you're gonna lose your life and all these things. And in some cases, yeah, like a little tiny bit of Fentanyl, it definitely will kill you. Like not something to fuck around with, right. But microdosing psilocybin mushrooms so that you can get off of your ADHD meds or you can wean off of your SSRIs and things like that. Like those being illegal is definitely to get the plant medicines out of circulation and out of study so that pharma could come in and get people onto. Yes, higher margin, artificially produced medicines. And you know, like, I always preface these conversations by saying there's many people who are on depression medicine, anxiety medicine, ADHD medicine, and they need to be on it. And that has saved their life. And there is nothing wrong with that. There are many of us too, especially moms, who I primarily work with, who felt weird after we became mothers or, you know, our hormones are all whacked out. And when we go to our doctor and say, I don't feel like myself or I just feel low or I feel like I have anxiety, instead of looking at root cause medicine, the doctor goes, let's get you on a pharmaceutical, let's get you on an anti anxiety, let's get you on an antidepressant. And some of that agency is taken away from us in those times because we just want to feel better. And we have young kids and it's like, okay, let me get on the medicine and I do feel better. And then years later or months later, we start to see the side effects and we go, wait, okay, what's going on? You know, and that's where the plant medicine stuff comes roaring back in to say, hey, there's other ways of treating this, or there's other ways of addressing the root cause of what's going on for you in a way that's safer. And I think, you know, I'm not an expert on, on the politics or how the money affected everything in the 60s and 70s when these decisions were being made, but there's great, there's a great documentary on Netflix, how to Change youe Mind, that really goes into the history of psychedelic research and what happened when the studies were coming, even. Even into the early 80s in the military, there's a lot of studies going on showing just the profound effect in a positive way on PTSD and depression using psychedelics. And then, yeah, pharma coming in and saying, hey, we have medicine like pharmaceuticals that can do this. And they had a much more powerful lobby and kind of changed the data or affected the data in a way to make it look like there was risk in psychedelics, like people were gonna go crazy and things like that, which obviously we all know now, that really can't happen. But if you look at the lineage of plant medicines, and again, I'm not an expert in the lineage of every plant medicine, but there's evidence that they have been used for thousands and thousands of years. And because I am an expert in the nervous system, and I do have so much experience with yoga and really looking at the primal nervous system and how our modern life has affected how our nervous system responds to things. And I'm like, I wonder how much depression, anxiety, ADHD is, because our nervous system biologically has not caught up to the amount of stimulation we have in our lives today. But the plant medicines, they know, you know, and the plant medicine can communicate with your biological nervous system so much differently than a pharmaceutical can. And so in my mind, I'm like, I've turned to plant medicine to help me because I trust that it can communicate with my nervous system and that I can commune with nature in a way that I just don't trust pharmaceuticals, and I definitely don't want the side effects of a pharmaceutical.

And, you know, that's so well said. And the best way that I can describe it is that it lands you in the present moment and dissolves the ego. For those of you that are not familiar yet with this field, this may be your first conversation that you're hearing about plant medicine. So when we're. When I'm speaking specifically about plant medicines would be psilocybin, mdma, which is ecstasy, and lsd. Those are the ones that I have the most familiarity with in the therapeutic world. And then as far as when Linz was sharing about journeying, a lot of individuals are now getting more and more familiar with journeying with something that is a plant medicine called ayahuasca or grandmother. You know, journeying is, in my definition, taking a dose that's a little bit more than medicinal. It's taking what's called, like, a ceremonial dose and going on a journey for four, five, six hours and processing that all within a ceremony. And so you're having this administered by a shaman or by a medicine individual and you're in some kind of ceremony. And then micro dosing or a medicinal amount is something that you're taking on a set schedule. And it's, it's very therapeutic in the aspect that we're looking at an 8 to 12 week kind of how much we're going to take for what we're going to take it for. And you're working with a professional, either a therapist or somebody that is on that schedule with you and kind of monitoring that. And so that's kind of the differentiation.

Yeah. So with one of the other medicines, and you mentioned it with Ayahuasca is dmt. And DMT is what's in Ayahuasca Bufo, like the frog venom that you, that you'll see some people do. DMT is a really powerful psychedelic for the brain too. And it works differently than MDMA or psilocybin or LSD in that there's all these studies, like, again, not an expert, but what I understood learning about Ayahuasca before I did it was that DMT is like what's produced in the brain at birth, like coming through the birth canal. Your brain is. The baby's brain is being flooded with DMT to kind of like wake it up. And you get flooded with DMT as you die, like as the soul leaves the body. And so when you take these big heroic doses of medicines that have DMT in them, like Ayahuasca or bufo, you experience something close to death. And I can speak to that. But DMT is really interesting and I think what a lot of us, what was studied a lot more back, you know, what we're talking about years and years ago was primarily psilocybin and LSD and MDMA in a less pure form. DMT is something that is just the whole next level because it is true. Like your brain thinks you're dying. And so the experience of transformation is so profound. But the trade off for those journeys, the DMT journeys, is that it's, it can be scary, it can be very dark, it can be a lot. And what you mentioned that is really, really important is integration and having support not during, not only during the ceremonies of all of these medicines, but after and ongoing to make sure that what came up for you and what you are rewiring and reconditioning in your mind is being supported by someone who gets it, who has the tools to support you, who can answer questions for you and be a mirror to Hear and to process what's come up and reflect that back to you to go, okay, what do you think this means? What is this showing you? Because as most people who have done a psychedelic journey of any kind know, what you see doesn't always make sense. Right. Like, it's visuals and all these memories and thoughts and things that are kind of swirling in your mind during the experience itself. And it's afterwards that you start. As you start to think back to what you saw and you can really think of the context and let it settle into your conscious mind. That's when really, at least for me, the insights have come up. To go, oh, my God, that was this memory. That was this core memory that happened as a child. That was this trauma. That was this ancestor coming through, you know? But none of that is clear in the experience itself. It's afterwards.

Yeah. And it's so important to say, as far as that integration and processing. And first and foremost, though, I want everybody to know that Lindsay and I are not coming at this from an advisory standpoint. We're not giving you therapeutic advice. We are not telling you to not take your medicines anymore. We're not telling you to go out there and take any of these substances. We are sharing our knowledge and our wisdom and insight and experiences, personal and professional, with you. For those of you that are curious. But I always say, talk to your medical professional, especially with somebody with multiple heart conditions, there. There are some things that you want to be very, very careful with. And what we're talking about is to make sure that when you do, and if you do decide to journey or decide to do this, that you're. You have trusted professionals and experienced professionals there with you. Because one of the other things of processing, it's been more and more popular the past couple years with my CEO clients to kind of do these journeys together and then have me as the coach, kind of process what visions they have for their company, for their future, for their team, for their culture. And they go in with a really specific intention, which I think is really important prior to going on this journey, is that you're setting that intention before you. You go in. And like Lindsay said, there's. There are some really great documentaries on that. However, what I was gonna say about that is that you're coming back to a very human experience that you're not having. When you're on a journey, when you're specifically on that ceremonial plant medicine journey, there's really not a concept of being human, really not a concept of having a body. And so you kind of land abruptly.

It does feel that way, or it can. I think it's so interesting wherever you choose to do, if you are interested in these heroic journeys where you will need guidance and it will be profound in the way that you're talking about. Most of the time, it's happening in a group setting. That's where most of us can access it is in a retreat or at a retreat center in Costa Rica or some of these countries where it's more legal and more common. And you'll be in a group. And at least for me, in my experience, I've been in groups. And the next day you're listening to everyone, kind of integrate it all and talk about it. And the wide range of experiences is so fascinating to me. And so I think to your point, it will have a lot to do with not only your body chemistry and how quickly you metabolize it, like how strongly it comes on, but also your intention that you bring to it and your. I would say, I think this is the nuance of all plant medicine that I like to speak to, which is just like anything. If you're not in the work already and you think that you're gonna go sit with ayahuasca or you're gonna go take 5 grams of mushrooms in the forest and, like, your whole life will be cured, you're in for a scary experience, right? Like, if you go and sit and you haven't done the preparation work, which doesn't necessarily have to be any certain amount of time, but I think that we all have a responsibility, especially as people who speak to plant medicine, to say there is a lot of inner work that needs to be done ahead of going on those journeys. And I think that's why I've become such a proponent of microdosing, because it's something where, hey, you can get the benefit of the plant medicine starting to work in you in a really small sub perceptual way in complement to intentional inner work, which is a psychedelic experience in and of itself. When you're in your own mind observing your thoughts in the present moment and going, wow. When I really sit in the presence with myself and I look at how I think about things, like there's a whole world inside of me that I'm not aware of or I'm not consciously aware of. But in those big ceremonies, you know, it's like the people who have the most rich, interesting, transformational experiences are the people who have been doing the work on themselves for weeks, months, years ahead of time, and can Come and sit with the medicine and have the next level opened up for them. The people that I know of that have had really scary negative experiences with those big journeys have been people who showed up at the retreat center and were like, hey, I'm here. Yay. You know, fresh off a plane from wherever. And sit, sit right down into the medicine. And their nervous system cannot handle the intensity of that experience because it is not prepared to look at those things. And then they leave with, you know, having had a really bad, negative, dark experience. And so that's. I definitely want that to be a thread that's pulled through this conversation. Is it? And I think you agree in no way are we advocating that this is medicine you go sit with because you can, like, sign up for a retreat and go and go. It's definitely a third or fourth or fifth step in a long process of inner work self awareness, Choosing to look at trauma, readying your nervous system to feel some memories come up, have to reintegrate everything. You know, it's definitely something that has to be done. I would say, like, I like the word caution. Yeah, the big journeys.

Yeah. And I want to get more into the microdosing. But before we leave this aspect of the big journeys, I want to say that, you know, once you leave the retreat center, it's almost like that's just the beginning. Like, I. I feel like transformation is probably an understatement. If, if you allow that to be what you're. My experience is you're being given a gift of dissolving your ego. And so, like Lindsay had said, with your conscious, you know, we have. We operate in 5% consciousness on a daily basis, but we've convinced ourselves that it's so much more than that. And so it's really difficult sometimes to be in our present or to have that deep inner knowing and the connection to higher self, whatever that means for you. And so having somebody to support you, not just during the ceremony and afterwards, but like Lindsay said, to commit to doing that inner work, whether you're working with a life coach, whether you're working with a therapist, and continue to get the gifts of that journey. And also we brought up the populations with like post traumatic stress military populations, with primarily what they're doing right now in studies or have been doing for the past decade, is with ecstasy, is with mdma. And it doesn't just take a psychological preparedness. It doesn't just take a spiritual preparedness. It also takes a physical preparedness because that particular medicine dumps all of your brain's serotonin all at once. And it's a magical experience, if you've ever experienced it or just to describe it in the aspect that even the most gnarly negative things in your life, you're looking at almost through rose colored glasses with a bunch of serotonin, all of your serotonin in your brain. And after you're doing that, you know, the next 24 hours, you can feel awesome. And then your brain has no more serotonin. Like absolutely none. To a lot of people, not everybody, you go into this gnarly depletion of serotonin for the next maybe four days. And so it takes a physical preparedness to go into these ceremonies as well as to come out of these ceremonies to make sure that you're giving your physical human vessel what it needs in order to recover. And knowing that just as the medicine was temporary, yet the opportunity is permanent, so is kind of the, for lack of a better term, hangover that comes with it. And so those are like the. The big journeys that we kind of dipped our toe into. There's so much more I know we could talk about there. What I have been getting, and I told you this since the moment that you kind of shared what this new venture was going to be, is a lot of people asking me about the everyday application of plant medicine and microdosing. And this is something that a lot of people are curious about. And there's questions about. And it's funny because these are the questions I had when I. When I had kids and, you know, I was taking Xanax or taking Trazodone. I'm like, how am I going to function with my daughter when I'm taking this medicine? And so these are a lot of the questions that I'm getting right now from our audience is around microdosing and operating in our daily lives. And I do want to let the audience know a little bit of the behind the scenes that Lindsay didn't just create this company and like start pumping this out. Like you're actually. I know your sister was advocating to the government yesterday, wasn't it, as we're recording this? And so you're heavily involved in the safety and kind of like how you're bringing it into, I would say, mainstream as well.

Yeah, yeah, my sister, she was actually. She's an attorney also, criminal defense attorney. Yesterday she was at an appellate court in the Supreme Court here in Colorado trying to get one of her clients out of prison. So not yesterday. She wasn't actually doing anything with plant medicine. But her and my dad, who is retired now, but they're both criminal defense attorneys, have done a lot of research for me on especially here in Colorado, where it's been decriminalized. You know what? And there is also precedent in Colorado around how marijuana was rolled out, which is also has a medicinal use and had a lot of research about how helpful it was for pain management and hunger with cancer patients. And the government and the federal government continued to make it hard to get while people were suffering, you know, and it's like you're gonna put em on these pharmaceuticals for nausea and stuff that have tons of adverse reactions, or they could take a little bit of marijuana and feel so much better, but it's illegal and dirty, you know, like. So Colorado has a long history of legislation around how these medicines are handled. And so we, in some ways, Colorado is like very cutting edge in psilocybin right now because we have decriminalized the use of psilocybin. That does not mean it's legal. And so we're still. Decriminalization is different than fully legal, meaning it is still illegal to buy it, it is still illegal to take it without being in a therapeutic setting. Just like how marijuana was 10 years ago when you still had to have like a medical card. Right. So there's so many nuances to that, and I'm not an expert on all of that, but we are watching it really closely here in Colorado and advocating as much as we can. And then my business partner and I, who run Inner Alchemy together. Inner Alchemy is our microdosing education company. Her and I, we've made the conscious choice to stay under the radar for now in terms of getting, like, getting into Colorado's. They have a certification you can apply for where you can be a practitioner. And we've decided right now we want to help the masses, like people like us just learn about it and demystify it and feel less uncomfortable about it versus us becoming practitioners of it here in Colorado. So we are watching everything really closely. But what we are really passionate about right now is making it accessible for exactly what you're saying. People who are like, hey, I've been on a pharmaceutical for a long time and I feel, I just feel intuitively I want to get off of it, but I don't know that I can go. I don't know that I can go at life alone, right? Like, I still need some level of support. And what we want to do with Inner Alchemy is give you all of the basics all the support, and not just basics like the research and the conversations and everything, as it's continuing to come out so that you can come to it and go, am I ready? Okay, I might be ready. Let me take all these courses we have and ask a bunch of questions, get on our weekly or we have monthly calls where you can get on and ask anything. We bring experts in and feel really educated and empowered to make a decision when it's ready for you. Because one of the things that I think makes microdosing scary to people is not only the legality of it, which I would say sidebar, but the government has much, much bigger problems to deal with right now in the drug arena than a little bit of psilocybin. So, you know, take that at what you will. But my approach to it right now is like, hey, I'm willing to be. Be out there talking about it, because I think the government needs to be spending time on fentanyl and meth and all these other things that are, like, legitimately killing people. And so with inner alchemy and everything, it's like, we want to demystify it and have you be able to come to a. Come to a decision and feel empowered and then know where to source it safely. Because what the current status is is, like, you find people on Instagram or Telegram or Signal or, you know, WhatsApp, and you're having to send, like, code emojis, and then they, like, Venmo you for a pizza party and all these things, and it just feels sketchy. And half the time, whatever you're buying doesn't show up or you don't know exactly what it is or how to dose it. And for me, in the way I operate my life, I don't like. Like, I knew that if I was going to be microdosing for the reasons that, that I want to microdose, I want my product to be already dosed out. I want to know it's safe. I want to know what the protocols are that I can choose from. I want to just have to take a capsule in my vitamins every day. And for me, that feels much more safe and approachable and not so illegal and dirty and underground as having a baggie of dried mushrooms, and I'm just popping a cap every day. So with inner alchemy, that was our goal, was basically, how would. My business partner's name is Rachel. She's also a millennial mom, you know, and an entrepreneur. And we're like, how would we want to learn it? How would we Want to find suppliers, how would we want to be in community about microdosing? And then we created that and, and we also have a source here in Colorado that we can recommend people to. They ship, you can order online. Like it's very clean and easy to do and it's not sketchy. And that was important to us too is to find a partner that could match up to our expectations on communication and quality and brand and things like that. Because you know to what, to what you're saying, it can be intimidating, it can feel weird, it can feel illegal and, and I, I hate that because it's so helpful. It is so freaking helpful. It will change people's lives. It is changing people's lives. And I hate that people have been so conditioned by the government to think that like a pharmaceutical with 10 side effects is better for you than a plant medicine that's, you know, decriminalized.

So yeah, and I wanna say that it's, it's not marijuana and it's not like marijuana because there are individuals that I've worked with that maybe grew up in the 70s and had an adverse reaction to marijuana. And I'm not saying that marijuana hasn't come a long way as well. However, like, it's different and in that aspect.

And so yeah, marijuana is interesting. I mean, if you follow Dr. Amen, he's been really out with a lot of studies around. Like there's a lot of studies now around how harmful like long term use of larger amounts of marijuana can be on the brain. And so when you look at how psilocybin works in the brain versus how marijuana works in the brain, they are very different. Marijuana is much more of a body medicine and you know, for pain and for appetite. And that has a specific. When you're looking at plant medicine, medicine, tradition, like truly medicinal marijuana is incredibly powerful for people who are suffering from cancer or are in chemotherapy and don't have an appetite or are in just tons of pain, it's incredible for that. But as a brain medicine, no, that is definitely not its application. Anecdotally for me now that I have, you know, have such a deep relationship with psilocybin in my life, anytime I take a gummy because I live in Colorado, you know, like, occasionally I'll take a gummy. If we're doing, I don't know why I do sometimes, or to sleep or just to chill out. Like some days I'm like, yeah, just sounds good, let's do it. And then I instantly regret it because the way marijuana makes Me feel my brain is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, we were conditioned for psilocybin in here. Like, what's happening with this, like, kind of downer. It almost spikes anxiety for me these days, THC does, because I've built the neural pathways with psilocybin, and I feel like there's a relationship. I have no idea if this is accurate, like, medically or scientifically, but I intuitively feel like there is a kind of an adverse relationship between psilocybin and THC in the way the brain, like, responds. And for me, I. I'm trying to rewire and be really conscious and present, and I feel like THC kind of takes you out of that.

But that's just anecdotal to me not having a degree in, you know, neuropsychology. That makes sense as far as the synapses firing and wiring together that you've trained. And, yeah, I'd be interested to see. I'm sure they're going to come out with some studies around that. So there's kind of like three areas all at once that are coming through my brain. So I'm going to see if I can get them all out before goldfish forgets what the questions were going to be. One of them is around this journey of being a mother while starting this plant medicine journey and kind of your experience with that, as well as steps you took to increase that comfortability. The second is for individuals that are listening to this. You've discussed adhd, I've discussed anxiety and depression. Anything else that within your community, I know you have the education there that you would share, you think is beneficial for that. The use of microdosing. And I think specifically we're speaking of microdosing psilocybin, which I guess would be classified as a neurotropic medication.

That word is so big in general.

That's a big word for me.

All the functional mushrooms are nootropics, and there's lots of isolated peptides and stuff that are also that way. But, yes, it's a nootropic in the sense that it enhances the brain.

Yeah. And, you know, in direct contrast to what we were just discussing with marijuana, being more of. It doesn't work with the brain that way. It kind of shuts down systems rather than making them more efficient or, you know, optimized, I guess, is the words that I would use. And there was one more thing that I was going to ask, but I don't have it right now. So motherhood and microdosing.

So As a mom, you know, I think last year when I decided to go to Peru and sit with ayahuasca, it was one of these things where I just. It sounds woo woo, but it was my conscious mind and, like, my rational Lindsay, you know, overachiever, suburban mom in Colorado was like, no, this is not safe. Do not do this. You know, like, there was definitely part of me that was like, why would you do this? You're going to fly to the jungle. You're going to be in the jungle for 12 days, no contact, and you're going to sit with this plant medicine that, you know, Like, I don't. I had no experience with it, right? So all I had heard was stories and people were like, oh, my God, you're going to go to Peru. That's like jumping in the deep end of, like, well, here we go. But ultimately, I felt this, like, deep inner knowing that I needed to do it, and I didn't even know why until after. And all the visions that came through. And so for me as a mother and considering the fear and the sense of I shouldn't do this, that was coming up, a lot of it was leaving my kids for two weeks. And what if something happens to me? And what if something. I had all of the intrusive thoughts of something physically happens to me? I'm going to be in the jungle and on the Amazon. This is uncharted territory for me living in Colorado. And also it was like, what happens if something happens to me mentally? Like, if it makes me go crazy or it makes me want to blow up my life? I wasn't actually afraid that those things were going to happen, but I had heard of people having that experience. They go and sit with ayahuasca and then they come home and they blow up their life. You know, they divorce their spouse and they want all these different things. And I was like, oh, God, like, hopefully that won't happen to me. But I had those thoughts. But ultimately, choosing to do it as a mother was an answer to the call I felt, which was, there is something I have done years and years of inner work, and there is still something in me that I cannot get at. And I don't know what it is, but there is still something in me that I am blocked by. And I am. There is a darkness I can feel and I don't know what it is, and I want to go explore that. And that was the intention I went with. And I was pretty open to whatever the answer to that was gonna be that came through. But I Had this intuition that it had to do with motherhood. And to me, I think part of me, an old version of me, would have been like, oh, God, I don't even wanna see that truth. Like, I already am a mother. I don't wanna see the truth of what I think about motherhood because I don't wanna deal with what's gonna come up. I wanna just be blissfully ignorant, right? But the new me and the me that came out of 2020 and had done so much work was like, I want to know everything about myself. I want to know why I am the way I am so that I can get back to the most pure version of myself. And this darkness that I feel sometimes around motherhood that I blame on all these external circumstances. Like I'm, you know, we live in America and it's crazy shit here and I have four businesses and I, you know, of course I'm under the mother load and all these things. I wanted to go deeper inside and go, what else is here? Like, what generational trauma do I have? Because I know I have a lot of it. And what did I witness as a child that maybe I have repressed? And those are things that came through. So for me, my mothering is so important to me that I answered the inner knowing call to go, even though all my rational brain was saying, screaming no. And it was hard to be away. And I had moments where I was like, this is crazy, I should not be doing this. But once I did the first journey, the first night, and I saw what I saw, and it was terrifying, but it was also profound and transformational and everything that has unfolded since is a direct result of that night. It is so clear to me why I went and that motherhood was the reason I went. And so, you know, I think now that's the big journey in driving to, or flying to Peru and going two hours into the jungle and all this stuff. I think the microdosing and choosing to microdose in your everyday life, where you live now and integrating it in, isn't such a huge decision necessarily, but it still asks the question of, like, what is going on in you and are you willing to take the risk or overcome your internal objections, whatever it may be, to, to know and to be the person who, who can say the most aligned, whole happy version of me is the best mother and I want to be the best mother. So if I want to be the best mother I can be, I have to be the most whole, self aware, aligned version of myself. And if psilocybin is going to help me get there or LSD is going to help me get there. I want to do it. And that's the decision that I like to help people come to. Not in any pressure way, but I want to help you decide are you ready to be that person? Cool. Well, there's lots of tools that are going to help you be that person and one of them is plant medicine, microdosing. So I think there's a spectrum as a mother of deciding how deeply you want to go and how quickly you want to go in. But it all comes down to are you willing to make the choice to be the next level version of yourself in the sense of inner knowing and self awareness for your children, for yourself first, but also for your children. And if you are, then let's go. You know, then like here's a ton of resources to help you understand it and feel comfortable with it.

I mean that is 100% what the audience is here for, is for that next level and up leveling. So I don't think you could have put it any better. So any other populations that we didn't talk about?

Yeah, yeah. So on the second question, yeah, adhd, anxiety, you know, depression, those are the, of course the ones that get the most traction in the media and people are the most drawn to it for. But we also get a lot of questions in inner alchemy, like what if I don't have ADHD or anxiety, but I'm just interested in optimal living or creativity or relational stuff. And there's also, you know, and to which I say, yes, absolutely, come in like it will, it is here to support your growth. Like microdosing, especially psilocybin is so magical because it just, you, you give it the intention and whatever intention you give it, it will go and, and, and wire into your brain if you, if you really do the work, you know. And so for me, yeah, there's those conditions that we know of that are diagnosed conditions and people that have a desire to get off of their pharmaceuticals and onto something more natural. Awesome. There is also the creativity and kind of the connection and flow desire that a lot of people have. For some people it's related to adhd, but for a lot of people it's like I just, I want to be, like, I want to be more present in the moment. I want to see the colors in the trees, I want to look at the bees flying around in the bushes. Like I want to notice the moment and I'm so, like, I'm so rigid in the way I do life or I'm so bored with my job or whatever it is, I can't access that like creative, present white space feeling in my mind. And it's like, cool. Microdosing can help you with that. If you clear this space and you allow it to work in that way, it can help you be more creative, be more immersed in the moment, be more in flow. So that's a big use that people come at it from, is I want to be more creative, like, I want to be more present. And then the third thing we see a lot is, and there's research on this too, around relationship and social. Like psilocybin especially has an effect of just making, of opening your heart. And the way I feel this affect me at least is when I'm in my protocols. And since I've been doing all this work with microdosing, I have such a deeper level of compassion for everyone. Like, I can look at people and I swear it almost feels supernatural these days where I can look at someone and be like, this is what she's dealing with. And like, it makes me emotional because I can feel her pain or I can feel her grief, I can feel her fear. And you know, I'm not. This isn't when I'm like on a three gram journey. This is when I'm on my microdosing. And it just. There's this element of interconnectedness that I think psilocybin reminds us of because of what it is in nature, that when it's in your system, all of a sudden you just have this heightened awareness of how connected we all are and that your story and my story and her story and his story are not that different. And when you start to feel alienated from each other or you start to feel anxious or like, what's the word I'm looking for? Antagonistic of society. You want to go out and fight people. I feel that sometimes I'm like, God, everybody's so fucking dumb. What are all these comments on these Instagram posts where people are just being controversial to be controversial. They're canceling people to cancel people. They're being mean to be mean. Like, what is this? But when I'm in my psilocybin and I'm on my protocols and I look at people and I'm like, man, like, what happened here? How can I help? What do you need? Like, everything is love, you know, and it sounds cliche, but it really. I think that's probably the third priority that people come for. Like, they really, they come for the diagnosed conditions, they come for the creativity and the flow. And some people know about psilocybin and they'll come for the love. But what everybody leaves with is this love, like this sense of compassion and open heartedness and interconnectedness that you really can't deny that as humans we are infinitesimally small little blips in the history of the universe. And our connection to each other is what makes us human. And if we can return even a little bit of that sentiment to our daily lives, especially in 2023, there's incredible magic in how that unfolds in your life. And so to me, like that third use, that's the least common reason people come to us for it. That's the magic of it that I hope everyone leaves with.

Yeah, I mean that's. You put that so beautifully because like, if I were to describe it, it dissolves the veil or like the obstacles between not just me and you, because there, there is no other, depending on how deep you go in your work as far as humans. But I mean, you know, I have a service dog and so it's like you get to feel deeper and more connected to animals or sitting on the beach. Like you get to feel, I feel like you get to take in more of the natural energy in the world and it's just is so beneficial. And so like you said, most people come to try to avoid feeling painful. However, the real gift is allowing more love in to your life. So. Wow, Mic trapped.

Yeah, that's it, that's it. I mean, and like, I think if psilocybin could speak for itself, that's exactly what it would say. Yeah, like come, come in and I'll help you rewire some of the pain and some of the patterns in your life that drive your depression or drive your anxiety or drive your ADHD behaviors where you're constantly trying to like cover up boredom or cover up being with yourself by being busy. Like, we'll work on those painful things. But the real reason I'm here, the real reason I'm in nature for human humanity, is love and connectedness. And I think that that's why it's having a moment right now, because I think there's a lot of us waking up to the fact that everything else we spend time doing every day is tearing us apart. And there is no systematic way to restore love and connectedness. So it will have to come from within. It will have to be an inside job of each to go back inside and go, why? I don't actually want to feel disconnected. I don't want to be out here alone on an island achieving things or hiding from things. I want to be part of my community and like the greater community of humanity. And our brains are moving further and further away from that.

Right.

So, yeah, it's all ultimately love.

I am in awe of the fact that we magically and organically found the yes and in psilocybin of yes. You know, like, we'll deal with all of the pain and love. There's love here for you, too. So I have so much gratitude and so much love for you. And I know that some people are going to want to reach out. Probably a lot of people are going to want to reach out. We're going to put the link for the Inner Alchemy community below in the show notes. However, people want to just get you directly on Instagram. How can they do that?

Yeah, it's just at Lindsay Roselle Bunny can link it and the spelling of my name is exactly what it is. There's also links from there out to Inner Alchemy and to Motherlode, but that's. Yeah, Instagram is my platform. I am an elder millennial. I don't really do TikTok, so you can find me on the gram. And I love to connect there. And I share all this stuff, like my personal. That's my personal Instagram. And I share all of the things that go on in my life, including motherhood, including psilocybin and microdosing. I'd love to answer any questions you have.

Thank you so much for the bravery to do your work for yourself and for your kiddos, and also the space that you're creating in order to make this world a better place. So thank you.

Thank you. You're welcome. It's my pleasure.

Yes. And I know I promised you guys an amazing episode, and we did not fail to deliver that, so I cannot wait to see how you guys respond. I love it if you tag Lindsay and I on your shares on Instagram, on Facebook, wherever you are listening to this. If you took us with you on a walk on the beach with your puppy or a hike in the mountains of Colorado, or if you're working out in the jungles of Peru. I think that's the only time I've ever said it in that order or even included those. But those are all for Lindsay and I. So now you're in our favorite places. If you were just listening to this at your desk, we would encourage all of the above options. Thank you guys for being here for another episode of the yes and Podcast. I am Bunny Young, and I will see you on the next episode.