Why Your Network Is Your Greatest Asset w. Jordan Hoffner

Ultimately, when the chips are down, need a new gig or whatever that is, you're not going to get that on a random LinkedIn, you know, job. You're going to get it through your network.

Welcome back to another episode of the Yes And podcast. Today I have a guest for you and we're going to talk about a topic that has a lot of meaning in my life. And I think that you're going to see more and more relevance in the corporate and in the entrepreneur world. And so I brought a very special guest in that has a ton of experience in a variety of different areas, especially in the C-suite. And so without further ado, welcome to the Yes And Podcast, Jordan.

Thank you, Bunny. Nice to meet you.

Yes, it's great to be able to connect like this.

Yeah. Yeah. A random LinkedIn request and there you go. It's magic.

You know, I feel privileged because how many LinkedIn trolls do you get per day in your messages?

A few. I mean, certainly, um, uh, selling stuff or, uh, you know, random investment things or coach, you know, I can help you with your coaching business or whatever that is. So, you know, so, um, but you know, look, I also try to answer as many as I can because it's, You know, I'm not on Instagram, I'm not on TikTok, I'm not— this is my social network for the most part, right? Except for Facebook, which I go primarily into New York sports only. And so this is really the only other area that I kind of lean into.

Are you in New York right now?

I'm not. I'm in San Francisco, but we'll be moving soon. So stay tuned.

Back to the East Coast?

Yeah.

Well, we could swap because I just bought a house in California and I'm in Virginia in the studio. So if you want to swap, it's not quite New York.

Well, I hope you got insurance because that's kind of the big issue that's going on out here.

So, yeah, it is SoCal. So we only have fires and mudslides and earthquakes and floods. Other than that, we're fine.

Yeah, you don't have hurricanes, so that's good.

Yeah, exactly. See, you got to see the bright side of things. Exactly. So I, I want to, as far as networking, because you and I get to have this conversation and hopefully we carry this friendship past this podcast recording. I'm, I'm like you, like 95% of my messages are people trying to be transactional. And so growing up in business, I used to use networking a whole lot. How do you think that that has changed and how would you recommend those that are entering into their entrepreneurial ventures use networking? Because I honestly don't think, and I'm open for obviously your opinion, that's why you're here. How would it have felt if I was like, I don't want to hear your opinion, but like, how do you— I don't think you can have a business without networking.

No, I mean, networking is really important. And I think a lot of people do it wrong. I actually had a conversation with a dear friend of mine who used to be my boss a couple times actually. And we really talked about this, about how not to be transactional, right? How to be part of a network, part of being a resource, right? Whereas keeping up with somebody, whatever that amount of time is, it's every 3 months, every 6 months, it's, you know, and if you're in town, try and see them, even if they're not available, you made the effort. But I think that ultimately when the chips are down, right? And that things don't always go well in business or, you know, you need a new gig or whatever that is, it's not, you're not gonna get that on a random LinkedIn, you know, job. You're gonna get it through your network.

Yeah.

Right? And it is the most important asset behind, you know, like having cash or, you know, investments, right? It's just, you have to think of it as it's an, It's an asset in your portfolio and it needs to be grown. It needs to be nurtured. It's almost everything really.

I agree with that so much. And I also have shared with clients and, you know, if I'm doing like a speaking on networking that I think that your network and your net worth are correlated.

For sure. I 100% agree with that. And, you know, to be honest, I, I, could have done better on my network over the years and probably was a little bit too transactional with some folks. But you know, it just, it's never too late to start, you know, repairing that. And as a matter of fact, you know, in the last year I've reached out to people and be like, hey, you know, I haven't talked to you in a long time. Just love to catch up. I don't want anything. Just wanna say hello, you know, see how you are. How's your family? And then, you know, what's amazing is that people are always like, well, you know, if I hear of anything or if I, you know, and sometimes things come through and sometimes, but that's not the purpose of it. The purpose of it was really, really literally to catch up and see how they're doing because whoever it was, whenever it was, was important at that time.

That's your warm network. Those are, let's quote unquote, like hot leads. How specifically going back to like the LinkedIn messaging and the amount of trash that we're getting in our inboxes, in our message for LinkedIn and the fact that maybe 85% of what we're doing is all virtual now, especially in a post-COVID world. How do you network?

Yeah, I mean, I still think that there are opportunities with LinkedIn in areas of shared interest. So, where you went to school, or if, you know, you worked at a company and that, you know, you're sort of doing your second degree types of folks. And, you know, you worked at Google, I worked at Google. And so, you know, because especially around the same time, you know, if you're able to find people who, whether you went to school around the same time or worked at a place around the same time, even if it was a really big place, that shared experience at that time is something that is very valuable. And, and so you must know XYZ person. Oh, I do. I worked with them on this one project. And then, you know, So I, I think you have to really take it a step further, right? Dig a little deeper to figure out like where your shared connection is.

And how do you get over the transactional aspect?

You gotta give to get, right? And I think that's part of it is just like, look, yes, uh, I'm asking you a question or, you know, getting your opinion on something. And by the way, I am here for you if you have anything that you need. And so you ha— and then you have to answer the bell when, when, when they call, right? So, you know, I've been consulting with a couple companies and the, they're all come through my network, right? And it wasn't anything immediate. It was, and one of 'em actually was, I had no idea that the person who was running this company was doing this thing. I was actually asking about something else that somebody had, was gonna hire me or wanted to hire me for a CEO role. And, you know, they were, attached to the venture arm. And I went, I didn't know the venture arm. So I kind of saw that, oh, this person, I know I haven't talked to that person in 6 years. So reached out and what are you doing? Oh, this. Oh, by the way, I need some help. What do you, what's your bandwidth these days? You know, I mean, it was like, I wasn't even like, you know, so, um, you have to get on the phone or you have to get on the email and you have to do it, um, because it's free, number 1. And, um, number 2, it's, uh, it's important. So, uh, so those are the things that, uh, I think you just have to just invest your time in. It's, you know, um, uh, George Bush Senior is famous for writing letters, um, every day. I think he wrote like 5 at breakfast, and it just was every day. Okay. And actually, there's— I think there's a book of all these letters that he wrote. Uh, whether you agree with his politics or not is kind of irrelevant, but it was really more of— he was like a master networker, right? And so, um, so I think it's important to, to do something every day with somebody Um, and, uh, and, you know, I think it'll pay dividends.

Okay, I'm gonna put you on the spot. What do you do every day?

50 push-ups.

Um, how's that build your network, Jordan?

Well, you know, it gets me ready for the day. Um, so, um, you know, I, uh, I do try and reach out to somebody. Um, maybe it's not every day, but it's pretty close, right? And, uh, and by the way, that could be somebody who I'm I'm really good friends with who I just, you know, want to send them, you know, something that I thought they think would be interesting or whatever that is. So it's just the activity of not being so enclosed. I mean, I work out of my house, right? And I think to your point earlier, like COVID really created a big just change in how we do everything, right? And so, so it's just really important to, to, reach out mental, mental health-wise, everything, you know, it's, it's important.

That kind of goes into this topic that we hinted at that I, I honestly think it's going to be huge. And coming from a background as a therapist and working in a lot of corporations over the years as a consultant and focusing on the white, like, elephant in the room that, um, I don't think it's a colored elephant. I think it's a pink elephant.

It's, it's an elephant.

You know, it's an elephant for sure.

It's a large elephant. Yeah. So, okay.

Now, at least we can say mental health in the workplace. For a long time, it was veiled in productivity and all of these different kinds of things. The thing that in the land of DEI training and all of that, that I think missed the mark was the psychological safety. In the workplace. And now I'm seeing more and more of that. But what you and I were talking about is where leadership and where the responsibility of that safety falls to first. I've seen a lot of companies, and I want, in your vast experience, to know, like, what you've seen as far as being force-fed wellbeing and psychological safety and training, inclusion training versus what you've seen being the most effective in moving the needle?

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a good question. It's a, a bit of a loaded question too. It's hard. It's hard to answer. All I can, all I can say is that One of the things that we all evolve, right? And one of the things that I, I've evolved over the last 10 years, particularly because I've had some, you know, family traumatic things that have happened, is leading with empathy. Right. And that, you know, coming from a place like being trained from a place like General Electric back in the Jack Welch era, that was not leading by empathy. That was, you know, just, it was Neutron Jack for a reason. So over time you're kind of like, this has gotta be a better way. And then I, I just personally, like, I think you have to just do things that make people know that, hey, we, we need, we have a job to do. We have, you know, goals that we have to accomplish. But it is also important for you, anybody, right, to take a break, you know, spend time with your family, work out, even if that's just taking a walk, you know, and, and that helps everything, right? And so, but it does start at the top and being Somebody of empathy is something I've learned over time. And, you know, I'm still, it's still a work in progress, but I'm a lot better now than I was 10 years ago with folks.

Okay. Well, let's, if we can get a little bit more personal, obviously business has changed in the last 40 to 50 years. So something that I know you're working with a lot of your clients on is mainly Business Over 50?

Well, that is, yes. I mean, I'm definitely, um, it's not really clients, it's, um, it's people who have reached out, um, through networks, you know. Particularly I've been working with the International Leap Network, um, uh, which has been a nice, uh, thing for me, uh, and, uh, but seeing people who are kind of in my situation life-wise, right? Which is, you know, they've done a lot. They've been working for 20 years plus and looking for how they kind of fit in into the next realm, right? Because, you know, the big, the big sort of the big picture, which I think everybody, another elephant in the room, okay. Is that—

What color is this one?

This one's green. Okay. Because, you know, it, um, there's, if we live to 85, 90, and we stop working at 65 or forced to stop working at 65, that's a problem.

Yeah.

Okay. And so, and I don't think that financial literacy, which does go hand in hand with mental health, by the way, has effectively been taught. Right.

So it's a problem at 65 financially or because of mental health or both?

Both. I mean, I think that I've, I mean, I've read studies that, that, you know, generally speaking, people who are a little more financially comfortable, again, it's not a panacea for everything for sure, but certainly that it takes a load off and knowing that you're well cared for and then you have money for healthcare and food and, you know, a lifestyle that's, you know, as opposed to, um, you know, kind of eking it out over your retirement years. And, um, and I think that's scary for a lot of people. Scary me, scary for me. Um, and so I have been trying to help people at least think about 50+ differently. Like you're the CEO of your own kind of portfolio here. So, um, okay. So it's, uh, there is the, okay, I first is what are your costs? Okay. Just right. I mean, just really doing a budget like you would at work. And a lot of people don't, which, and, and which is amazing to me. I, I just, they don't have a P&L of their life. They have to put a P&L together. You have to understand what you are spending.

Yeah.

Yeah. Across everything. Taxes, insurance.

Yeah. That's such a good point.

Right. And just so, just so you understand, okay, now I know what I owe every month and you know, the food and all that too. So just kind of budget it out and then you're like, all right, well this is how much I need to make. All right. In order to make that work. And then obviously, um, you know, that could be, okay, I need to go, I work for somebody or I start up an LLC or, combination thereof, right? Yeah. LLCs are great because you can take things off the, you know, uh, from a tax perspective, like your internet service or, you know, things like that. Um, and this is by no means any kind of financial advice.

Financial advice.

Yeah.

Not, not, here's the NFA.

I'm just saying how I did it. Okay. And then, so it calmed me down. All right. And I was like, all right, I know what our, what my burn rate is. All right.

Yeah.

In entrepreneur terms. Right. And so what's the revenue I need to get? And then the, then the question is, How am I gonna get it? Right? And, and there's active, there's passive. Then how much am I gonna put away? Right? And let the money work for you. Like, you know, I, I, the, the biggest mistake I made was not learning this concept of, you know, cost dollar averaging. You know, I mean, if I had known that when I was, or at least maybe paid attention to it when I was 21. Yeah. Right. So I'm telling this to my kids and I was like, look, you can do whatever you want, right? And because I got one who's about to graduate college and I got one who's in college. And, and so I'm like, all you need to do is put away $10, $15 a day, you know, and then, and then put that into the S&P 500, which averages about 11% historically. And then just, it just compounds and all that. Yeah. Just keep adding, keep adding. By the way, by the time you're, you know, 65, you'll have $8, $9, $10 million in the bank.

Great.

And it's, if it's in a Roth IRA, then even better because you don't have to pay taxes on it.

But then you're still gonna have to work because your mental health is at risk.

Well, you have to, but you at least, you understand what you could do, whatever you want. Right?

Yeah.

And I think that's the other part, which I think helps the mental health.

Yeah.

No, it's, yeah.

So it's, it's interesting because I think around $400K is when the happiness.

Yeah. I read that.

It doesn't matter, like over the $400K. And I think that in working with a lot of people, there's this illusion that at the 7-figure or, you know, 2-comma club is when happiness is. I see a lot of people that, um, I mean, I even have coached people that have billions and they're not any happier. No.

And, and I, and I just think that's, that's a big part of, of that. But, um, knowing that you are secure and, and, you know, something has to happen to those folks, right? I mean, um, something traumatic, you know, uh, to realize, to take stock in their lives, I think. Yeah. You know, I had that happen to me, a health thing in our family that is very serious. And so really thought about, you know, well, if this goes really south, like what, where, where, what am I like? What are we doing? Like, what is it that would make me happy every day? And so, you know, it's, it's important to be able to take stock, but unfortunately it sometimes it just takes a, a big event or something like that to get, wake people up.

You know, it goes back to the self-leadership that we were talking about. So what if it doesn't take till 50 to realize that you want to make some different decisions? What if it's not first brought on by your corporation? As far as like fed training? And what if it doesn't have to be set in motion by a traumatic event? I mean, I have multiple heart conditions, so, and that started at 14, so I kind of already had this awareness of life. And what would it look like if it didn't take that?

Well, that's one. I think also it's going back to the original thing we were talking about with my, with my kids, right? Which is just like, set yourself up for success down the line, right? And understand at least on the, on the financial side, but also on the kind of like career life side, right? What is it that you actually really need?

Yeah.

You know, and, and that's different for everybody, right? And, but it's, it, you have to think about that. And I know some people who I went to college with who, you know, on both sides of the spectrum, some people just, you know, they wanted the brass ring and they got it. Okay. And, and then I got others who literally one guy who I love and admire, and I haven't talked to him in years and years and years and years, but he literally is walking the earth. Okay. So he just is traveling from place to place. He doesn't have a, you know, he doesn't have a wife. He doesn't have any kids. He does, he just, he's, he's just spends time in India and Asia and, you know, just, he's done this for a long, long, long time. And, you know, I mean, from my understanding from people who have been in touch with him, he's perfectly fulfilled, you know, he works when he needs a little money. He, you know, all, all the things that he can do to survive. And I'm, but, and I'm sure he has something, you know, put away from the beginning and that's great., but I mean, how do you weigh those two spectrums? One, one person, you know, huge in private equity, one person walking the earth, like what's the, you know, so that's so beautiful though. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so anyway, I think it's just, it's a self-discovery thing and, uh, and that's where I think people just need to kind of reflect and maybe it's a book that they read, maybe it's, you know, um, something else that inspires them.

Maybe it's a Jordan, what's the, what's the AI prompt? Yeah. Assume the role of—

Yeah, I have to think about that one. I think it is the, you know, give me 50 ideas of like how I can be ultimately happy. So, you know, look, I—

I'm resisting so hard right now, not pulling up a tab to type that in and just see what the answer would be. Do it.

I think you just do it. I mean, and you know, it'd be, you know, or I don't want to say happy, but ultimately fulfilled in life, right? So maybe that's the better one. So, but again, I think it's more that it is different for everybody.

Jordan told me to do it. All right. Oh, you know what? Number 1, cultivate meaningful relationships. See, I feel like we just had that conversation.

We did. We did. I'm telling you, it's your— if you have that, your network and meaningful relationships with your family, with your friends, with even like, quite frankly, I get a lot of pleasure in my, my neighborhood, like my community. Right. It's, you know, we're— there's a shared experience that I think, you know, I know that there's that expression of what is it, fences like the other sum total fences, like have good neighbors. But I do, you know, look, I think when you're living in an urban environment like San Francisco, I think it's important to cultivate some relationships because, you know, you never know when you're going to need some help, right? Or—

Yeah.

And we have block parties every year and it's a good way to kind of keep people, you know, together and all the things.

So I was going to message you yesterday because we already had to reschedule this once and it was a non-negotiable for me to, to do this today and not reschedule it. And I have my 4-month-old because my parents went out to the California house. Long story short, I was going to email you and be like, there's a good chance we have a 4-month-old in the studio with us., but my neighbor stepped in and my neighbor's watching him so that I could come and do this recording. So it's just the value of relationships.

It is. It is. And so, um, and it's, but again, it's like, they're like, you know, what did I hate to quote Woody Allen, but it was like that, uh, and from Annie Hall, he was like, you know, a relationship is like a shark, either as it can continue moving forward or else it dies. And so, uh, so you don't want a dead shark. And so I think that's the, um, right, I think that's kind of the, the same thing. You just, you have to nurture the relationships, um, all the time. And you know, it's, you know, smiling at your neighbors, even if it's a nice, you know, being warm and, or, or calling up a friend or making sure your brother's okay or your sister or whatever that is. Um, it takes work, but it's, you know, the, the rewards are huge.

Yeah. I love that. So Jordan, unfortunately pushups was not on the 50.

Exercise not there. Really? So, okay.

We got David's vision board. Do you have a vision board, Jordan?

No, there's studies that says exercise, you know, helps mental health and happiness.

I don't know what that is. We've got journaling, meditation. Yeah, curiosity is on here, but meditation is—

I can't, I, I'm like, that's to me, meditation is like, oh, I'm gonna go take a nap. So, um, you know, it's just like, it's instant sleep for me. I can't, I could never do it.

I'm gonna send you a link to my breathwork, um, channel that I use because I'm the— I used to be the worst at meditation because of my brain. I'm also going to email you this list.

Yeah, email the list, put it up on the thing.

Yeah, well, well, that's what we'll do is I'll put this list below the show notes too. So you've got it. But breathwork really helped to get into that subconscious space and shut off the ego and the conscious mind without driving me insane, just making my grocery list when I'm supposed to be meditating.

Yeah. It's just, everything flows in during the quiet times. That's why I would love to learn how to do it, but I just, it's either like that, which is things flood in or I fall asleep. There's like nothing in between. So I'm clearly doing it wrong.

So you're not doing it wrong. Are you open if I send you the breathwork stuff?

You know, at this stage in my life, I'm open to pretty much everything.

So what is the next— are you going to go walk the world? What's the next plan that you're looking forward to?

You know, um, I've spent a lot of time over the last— since I left the corporate world. Um, working with companies, um, or, or in some cases actually creating, potentially creating companies that are doing something interesting and meaningful. Okay. Or meaningful, right? It doesn't have to be both, but, um, so I've got a few of those right now working. I mentioned consulting and, you know, another one just popped up and, um, and I'm working, um, setting up a couple companies on things that I think just interesting and using the entrepreneurial skills, but, you know, in a, in a different way. I don't know, starting things up and knowing to how to do all that is great. But, you know, in this case it's other people's money, which is also which, okay. You know, sometimes it's my own, but I'm just, I'm trying to create a portfolio of things because some things are going to work and some things aren't and that's okay. And it's just taking little pieces along the way and, and if something really hits, then, then great. Again, I don't need a lot for our lives now. Like it's just, it's, you know, I need to cover healthcare and we want to be able to cover where we live and all that kind of thing. Like I just, you know, we don't do the keeping up with the Joneses stuff, like, you know, and any of that thing. So it's just that I know what I need. And I'm just focused on that. And anything above that is gravy. Put it away. Savings. Great. Awesome. And if it doesn't work out, then something else. But, but having the, you know, the, the muscle memory of how to do that kind of thing in a repeatable fashion and building that portfolio, I think was the most important thing I learned. And the confidence that is like, okay, you know, I can do this. Right. And so that's what I've been focused on. And then, you know, my family's health.

I mean, just that's those are the, I honestly, but continuing to build and nurture your network.

Yeah. And the network, I mean, that's really the 3 things. I don't, I don't, I don't really need much else. So I cook a lot, so I don't even, you know, I just, I actually have been focusing in on my cooking and my culinary sort of prowess. Right. Yeah. I'm very inspired by The Bear and I don't know if you ever watched that show, but It's, um, gotta watch it. Got, it's, you gotta watch it.

I don't do a ton of TV.

No, no. This is like, this is the next, this is one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life. It's actually, uh, from an entrepreneurship standpoint, it's a must-watch, uh, as it were. What is it? The Bear on, on—

Okay. Like the animal.

Yeah. But it's about a Chicago family restaurant and, um, God, he sort of breaks—

Oh, I'll give you an episode. You're gonna do breathwork. I will watch an episode.

Well, yeah, so the, the greatest episode when it comes to transformation, when you got to go through it, but is called Forks. It's in the second season.

Okay. Yes. Okay.

But you have to like watch it, and then, and the first season is very intense, but they're only like a half hour, all right? And then, um, but when you get through it, and at the, the first season at the end is, is just like mind-blowing. So, um, but Yeah, it won a ton of awards and I rarely, and having come from TV, um, I know what a good show is. I will tell you that this is a freaking great show.

Well, I'm married to a stuntman, so, and I retired from doing stunts. So, I mean, how did you do stunts with a heart condition? I know that really wasn't a great idea and I did it and I lived. I don't know if you knew the end of that story, but I lived.

No, I got that. Actually, I just figured that out just now.

So, so, um, okay. So typically I have guests answer what their definition of a Yes And lifestyle is, and I want to give you a second to think about that with something that I think you'll appreciate that just came to mind about relationships. In having 14 companies over the last 15 years, one of the things that I love is M&A, because if rather than starting another company or hiring for something and training on something that I need for our company, being able to invest in or acquire a company and bolt it on to an existing company to make it more profitable feels amazing when it works out. When it fails, it's a dumpster fire. And I feel like that's really relationships too, is it's kind of the acquisition of skills and relationship currency and their network and their skills and wisdom and ability and experiences. So that was just my thoughts if you want to comment on that. But it's, I think relationships are like mergers and acquisitions.

Yeah, I don't think it's, you know, I've seen M&A go go well and I've seen M&A go very badly. And unfortunately, I've been kind of on the both ends of that. But, you know, I think that overall it does, to your point, comes down to people. I mean, and how you treat them. And so, you know, it's not— and these are part of the learnings, you know, of just like how to treat people well when they're coming into a new situation and, you know, again, things that I've done well in some cases and not well in others, but learned. And so I think the important thing though is what is the value that is created when the two things kind of come together, right? And creating a shared vision. And, you know, 'cause most deals do fail, you know, 50% of marriages fail, right? So, so how do you get on the right side of the ledger is, and I think part of that is just empathy. It's listening, it's understanding.

Yeah.

You know, and I also think it's,, you know, having a kind of a vision of kind of where you wanna go with, with whoever it is. Right. So, um, so I think that if you can do those things, there's no guarantees, but, um, you'll, the odds are probably with you.

A Hunger Games quote to end the episode.

So, you know, again, it's like, it's, it, I, not everything ends up roses, right? But if you, you got, all you ask, can ask for is an opportunity and a chance to succeed. Right? And I think that if you set yourself up for success, you have a better shot than others.

Yeah. And if you, if you fail, it's data.

Yeah. You know, um, what is it? I, I just read Thomas Edison is like, I didn't, I didn't fail. I just found like 10,000 ways that it wouldn't work or something like that. So, you know, so, um, which I thought was a good way of kind of—

We need like a Jordan Hoffner, like, uh, quote a day calendar.

There might be. I, I do, you know, 'cause I read a lot, so it just, and then sometimes, you know, it's funny, some things, little things stick with me, but like somebody asked me like, what are you, what's the name of the book you're reading? I was like, I have no idea. So, you know, so it's like selective memory on some of this stuff. But I am, I am reading actually this crazy book called The Fund. I don't know if you've heard of this book.

Yeah.

It's called by Bridgewater Capital and, you know, it's just, It's Banana's book, but it's, you know, it's like worth a peek into the world of hedge funds, whether it's true or not. That's like everyone denies it, but like even, even if it's all made up, it's really interesting.

Yeah.

Juicy and interesting. Yeah. So yeah. So anyway.

Okay. I know I've kept you after, so yes and lifestyle.

You know, yes, I've been in the C-suite and I don't think that's important.

Mm-hmm. I love that one.

Um, I think what's important is that, um, uh, I like to find things that are interesting and work with interesting and smart people., for to create new events, new, new assets, new things. I mean, I always have loved the technology and the innovation sort of part of business, right? And, um, uh, I, I just really appreciate people much more now than I ever have.

So I love that. I'm so glad that you stayed on to give us that.

I always like to have a big ending. So, um, Yeah. So there we go. That's, that's the, the television producer in me. So I always have a big ending.

So, well, we can leave it of a cliffhanger of having you back as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, all, uh, all good. So, um, but, uh, I really appreciate you reaching out and, um, and growing a, a media entity. It's hard. And so I appreciate, um, all the work that goes into that. And, um, and so thank you.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for the wisdom that you shared, the perspective that you shared, and also your willingness to kind of be transparent and share vulnerably. I know that that is really appreciated by both me and our audience.

Thank you, appreciate it.

Of course. All right, well, that concludes another episode of the Yes And podcast. Jordan and I do want to take a second to thank you guys for wherever you were listening to us, whether it was walking the earth or driving into your private fund and private equity office. If you have any questions for Jordan, just make sure that you LinkedIn message him and make sure it's not transactional. Get his attention, reference the podcast. All right, till the next time of another episode of the Yes And Podcast, I'm Bunny Young. Thank you so much for listening.