The Progress in Practice Podcast: Episode 18, Sam Sloma

Welcome to Progress in Practice, where we explore what it really takes to build and sustain a professional service business. The hard lessons, the smart moves, the uncomfortable truths, because success leaves clues if you're willing to look for them. I'm Charlie Reading. Let's dive in. So Sam, welcome to the Progress in Practice podcast. Really looking forward to chatting all things financial services because this is obviously my background. And to kick things off, I'd love you to share, you know, who you serve, how you help them, and what makes you different.

Okay, thanks. Well, there's 3 questions in one there to start. So that's an easy way to get going. So thanks for having me as well. Should add that in. I run a business called Engage Financial Services. We're coming up on 10 years. We are a fixed fee financial planning firm based in North London. The business has evolved over the 10 years as any business does and changes, but we serve sort of 3 different subsets of clients. So we look after quite a lot of footballers. I have a background in professional football and the business was sort of built on that. We have a sort of an entrepreneur team that look after business owners that are either building their business or who have recently exited their business. Because obviously you go from having income to having capital and that change of transition and then how to protect that capital, make it grow, and continue to make use of your life and human capital. And then the past 2 or 3 years, we've had a new advisor join us, and he looks after more of the professionals heading towards retirement and those entering retirement and sort of the more traditional space of financial planning. So as we've grown, we've layered on different areas of the business, but the theme of our our business is the same for everyone. It's lifestyle financial planning. It's trying to put your values and your capital together to, you know, live as full and fulfilled life as possible, you know, using your capital as the driver. So that may be different, well, it is different for everyone, but that's really the key theme across the business is how can we make all of our clients feel happy, secure, comfortable, but also like they're living the life they want to live.

Brilliant. And what makes you different to most financial advisors? I mean, I think you sort of alluded to the fact that you're different with fixed fees, I suspect, but what makes you different?

So we often have this question from potential clients and introducers and various people, and I'm a bit loath to sort of say how different we are because, you know, there's thousands of financial advisors in the UK and there's many, many doing a great job, many that I know well. Our charging structure is different. You know, I would think probably somewhere in the region of mid-90% charge as a percentage of assets and we charge fixed fees, which makes us different. I think, you know, the average age of our advisor and our whole team is about 41. So that's about 20 years younger than the average advisor age in the UK. So that gives us a little bit of a different perspective. And then the average client age in our business is also mid-40s, again, about 20 years younger than the average client in the UK. So I think those sort of combination of those things makes us a different business. But there are other businesses doing similar things. You know, we are not a unique, uh, you know, I don't, I wouldn't put us in that category, but we are different in terms of our demographics and in, in, in terms of the way we charge for sure. They're, they're USPs.

Brilliant. So obviously I understand giving advice to entrepreneurs. I even wrote, you know, I wrote a book called Entrepreneurial Happiness that was around that. My first book was The Dream Retirement, all around around helping people in the lead up to retirement. But footballers, never really dealt with them. I've only really watched them on a pitch as opposed to giving them financial advice. How is serving them different to everyone else? Because I suspect it's quite different.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's very different. They are very young and footballers at the higher levels and the elite level of professional sport in the UK, the earnings are significant. So those two things are often opposites in normal, often you start at the bottom in terms of earnings and you work your way up and you have time to buy a house and you have a long-term mortgage and you can grow into that earning capacity throughout your lifespan. Whereas a footballer can come into the industry very young, but obviously they're not paid until they start hitting 16, 17. And then if they do well from that age, the earning curve gets very steep very quickly. They also have that on the reverse. So when they're finishing their career, depending on how they've done, the reverse curve from when they go from massive earnings to very small earnings also happens very quickly. So you need to really help them be focused on saving, on having money away on peak earnings because, you know, their peak earnings is only a short window. And really, you know, as I say to them, making hay while the sun shines. You don't know what that next contract looks like. All we can work with is now. Yes, there are some players that are elite, elite, who, you know, you know they're going to have the next 5 or 10 years because they're just that good. But everyone else in the middle tier, you know, if their club gets relegated and the manager doesn't like them, all of a sudden their whole financial picture can change on the next contract. So it really is a completely different mindset. They need a little bit more attention. So they need not consistent reassurance. That's not really what I'm saying. It's more, there's just a lot going on because they have a lot of time drains. They have they have a lot of family drains, there's a lot of media drain, there's a lot of things going on and you've got to try and keep them on the straight and narrow because there's quite a few people that they want to help and, you know, that want to present them business opportunities or all these other sort of ancillary things that, that come on the scene that we need to say no to.

There's some frightening stats around how, what percentage of Premiership footballers end up bankrupt, isn't there? I can't remember what they are, but I was aghast based on Given how much money most of them earn, it's frightening, isn't it? How so many of them end up bankrupt.

Yeah, statistically it's 60%, I think it's 60%, yeah, end up bankrupt 5 years after professional sport. Now, those numbers are a little bit skewed because that data goes back quite a long way. And the money when that study and those surveys first came out wasn't at the level it's at now. So if you did one for the prevailing 10 years, you know, the last 10 years, I think that number would shrink. Also, the advice market has got a lot better, you know, myself notwithstanding, but the advice market has become much more professionalized again in the early 2000s when the regulation was much less and, you know, people could still sell stuff for commissions and they could, you know, create all sorts of harebrained schemes that they did do to professional footballers. That had a big impact., on when footballers could get their money out. So that, those two elements combined, that bankruptcy number will start to come down. But yeah, historically it's been crazy number. Uh, and yeah, full of shame and, uh, some, some real horror stories, unfortunately, a couple of which were in the press recently. Uh, there was a documentary on, I think, ITV or BBC with, yeah, a number of footballers that have been burnt in the not too distant past.

Yeah, it's very sad, isn't it? Because they're getting so much money so early, they— but equally, you know, there's a precedent of them driving around in very nice cars and everything else, isn't there? So what's the story that best explains why you run the business that you run?

So there's a couple of stories. I mean, the charging, the difference in charging is based on a real story. So I had a client who, good friend of mine, sold his business 10 or 12 years ago, very successful. I am 43 and he's a year older than me. So this was, let's say 10 years ago, it was a little bit more than that. So we were early 30s. He'd run a business for quite a long time and had a really successful late teens in terms of millions exit. So done amazingly well. We were managing some money for him already and he said, right, I'm gonna give you, let's use an easy example, another million pound. And the charging structure was 1%. Upfront and 1% initial. So £10,000 initial fee for him adding to his own portfolio. And then essentially our fee doubled because he'd put another million pound into the book. And he said to me, I don't understand this. You know, yesterday you were doing X, now you're doing X plus, you know, a little bit more in terms of money management, but the fee doubles. I don't understand how that works because it just doesn't correlate with how I, you know, run my business. And I didn't really have a coherent answer for him. And that was really when the seed of fixed fees was laid in my mind to say, you know, it shouldn't necessarily be about the money, it should be about the work that we do. There is a correlation. Again, you've worked in financial services, you know, if someone, and again, this is a bit crass 'cause it's just an easy example, but if someone had $100,000 or someone had $5 million, the risks to the $5 million of something going wrong, you know, they're bigger risks on the side of your business. So there has to be a fee differential. In theory around, you know, client size and client assets, but it doesn't need to be, you know, doubling every time someone adds, you know, double the money because it's not double the work. And so that's the real story behind why the seed was set for me to say, right, I think I need to go on my own and I think I need to have my own charging structure.

Brilliant. And you said there was a couple of stories. So what was the other story that you said as to why you, why you got into this?

I think one of the difficulties around certain financial planners is if you are, if you have relationships with people and they see you as their guy or their person, as opposed to the firm, essentially you are building your business within another business. And that's how I felt. And it was like, you know, I thought there would've been a few footballers who would've said, if you said to them, oh, do you know X business? They would've said no. And that would've been the business they'd been a client of for 5 years because I was their advisor. Whereas if you said, do you know Sam? Oh yeah, cool. I love Sam. And to me it was like, this seems a bit crazy that I'm not building things in my own way when really there's no affiliation with the business they're in at the moment. And that was the second story that was like, right, these two things together feels like I'm, you know, ready to go and de-risk myself and start my own business.

Brilliant. And so you've now been doing this, you've been running this business for 10 years, is that right?

Yeah, it will be 10 years, uh, in early '27.

Awesome. And most business, most small businesses never get to 10 years. So this is, this is awesome news. But if you could go back to that younger self 10 years ago and give yourself a piece of advice based on what you know now about the business and what's go— what's going on, what advice would you give them to fast track that, that success?

To fast-track success specifically?

Well, no, not, I mean, for any reason, what's, what advice would you give your younger self?

What advice would I give my younger self? I look, I think one of the things I'm very proud of in this business is we haven't done much different. So yes, we evolve and the business grows and we add some staff and we do things differently and we review, but, but business is about constant evolution. So I almost, when I look back, I think, right, we could have done X, we could have done Y, but it's all led us to being where we are. So I don't, that's a terrible answer. I know for people that are listening, cuz they can't do anything different. But the, the point actually is more to say everything that you do leads you to where you are going. And it's not to say, oh, we should have done this differently. That mistake you've made or that change you've put in or that thing you've facilitated that has led you to have the experiences to where you are. So we've always enjoyed the business. I, I made sure that I have 3 young children. My family and my home life is always number one, and that's never changed. And I won't put anything in front of that because business is important, but life is more important. And I think, you know, I think I reflect on these things a lot. We've had a lot of, well, I think, you ask the team here, but I think fun along the way. And I don't think that we could have done things that would've made us go quicker. We could have done things that would've made us have more revenue, but— It's all part of the learning curve. Don't take it for granted. And I don't look back and think we should have done this. I look back and think, right, that happened because that's what we were doing at the time. And that's the lesson we learned from it. So it's a really unuseful answer, but something I've been thinking about recently is, you know, I'm 43. As I said, I've got 3 kids. I'm gonna look back at this period of my life, these 10 years that I've had and think, right, those were the days. We are living in the days that will be, those were the days. So try and appreciate these days because when they're gone, they're not coming back. You don't get another chance to build a business from the, you know, okay, fine, I can build one when I'm a bit older, but these are the throes of it. Young children going to school a million miles an hour. It's like, just try and enjoy and appreciate it. I think that is my key message where possible for everyone. Try not to optimize everything. Try to get the balance between all facets of your life working well. That's sort of, that's my philosophy at the moment.

I think there's a lot of wisdom in that, and I think it applies to, and I think you sort of alluded to it, but maybe didn't say it in as many words, it applies to the children as well, doesn't it? You know, these are the days in that, you know, when your kids grow up, I've got teenage girls that are right at the top of the teenage years, almost not a teenager, and yeah, you've got to make the most of it when they're young because, um, yeah. Well, they're less challenging than teenage daughters, if nothing else.

I've got one teenage daughter and I've got two younger daughters, so—

Okay.

So you can— I'll know soon.

Yeah. Watch out. Put it that way. And so thinking about them, if you could leave them no wealth, no inheritance, but just one sort of set of wisdom, what would you pass on to them as that piece of wisdom?

Wow. That's a tough question. I think that we try and, my wife and I teach our kids that, you know, being kind and having empathy is more important than most other things. You know, money is important, but how you make people feel is more important. And I think that's probably the wisdom that I would leave them. We emphasize how important family is. So their sisters, and whilst they get on each other's nerves and they argue and they steal each other's clothes and all those things, they know that they've got each other's back for life. And we, you know, try and emphasis to look after each other. Yeah, be kind, be good to people, and that will see you through. If you're a good person, you know, everything else is, everything else will take care of itself if you are good to others. That's kind of what I would leave them.

Brilliant. I love that. I love that. Very wise words. When you think about the goals of your business at the moment, what's the biggest obstacle that's blocking you from achieving those right now?

Me? You. Yeah.

In what sense?

No, I think, like I said before, on the flip side, when we were talking about, you know, what would we do differently, I think there's always 2 or 3 roads you can go down and you're always evaluating what those roads are. And the only known is that everything is unknown. So we try and look at all the decisions we're making and say, right, this is where we want to go. But, and I say this to clients, We have to know that we can choose the wrong road. As long as we choose the road for the right reasons, I'm okay with what the outcomes are because the outcomes are unknown. So we want to grow our business. We've, we've just put in place a 5-year growth target and we sort of put KPIs in place for the team, which we'd never really done before. We put, um, sort of high-level targets on new clients and referrals and reviews and all sorts of stuff that the business has grown up now and it needs those things. Whereas when we first started, it was just let's go and get some clients and grow. And I think that we are now much more structured in how we want to grow. But I think, yeah, it's making sure that when you're all aligned on the road that you've chosen, knowing that that can be the wrong path. If you put all the right things in place to go on that path, you should be okay.

Yeah, I agree. And I think, you know, every step is a step forward, whether it's a step forward in the right direction is another thing, but— Hindsight will tell you. Yeah. But then you make the next decision based on the next step, don't you?

Exactly.

But having the bigger goals in front of you so you know where you're aiming means that you can kind of angle, basically veer around. And it's actually one of the reasons why people with dyslexia are shown to have an advantage running their own business. Because when you're at school and you don't have dyslexia, you're told to learn by walking along this line from A to B, and you do exactly that. Whereas the dyslexic person is off on the left in the bushes and then off on the right in the trees, and they have to go all over the place to get to B. But that's the best trait you can have as being an entrepreneur, is this determination. I'm going to get to the goal even though I have no clue where I'm going to get there. So I think that's really interesting. What book or framework or anything else have you found really helping you on your journey, and where does it show up in your business today?

So my favorite book, which I read once a year, is Shoe Dog, which is the founder of Nike. And the thing I love about that story is the first time I read it, it was, you know, you have a picture of Nike as this massive conglomerate, which it is, but I could not really fathom how small they started and how long and hard it took for them to get to the position they're in. Obviously, you don't really think about it until you're thinking about it in more detail. So that is my favorite business book of all time, just from the hard work and the grind and the, you know, the not letting, not taking no for an answer. And just, I, I love it. Um, and I listen to it. I listen to it because the guy who's speaking, his voice is very calming and just, yeah, it's sort of, that's my Christmas, between Christmas and New Year, I listen to that every year. How does that show up in our business? I think It's the determination and the continual, not necessarily defiance, but the continual, we need to do things better. And you and I were speaking off air previously about our website and you were very complimentary, which I appreciate. And my view on that is we can do that much better. And it's those kind of things that if you think about Nike, they were doing well, but they could brand it, they could go into apparel and then they could go into sponsorship. There's a whole myriad of things that we can still do much better. And I like that process of continual iteration and smaller changes and marginal gains and making us a bit better all the time. And that's why I link those two together because it really, the sports element really hits my brain.

I think that book is absolutely brilliant. And what's also amazing about it is how close they came to the wire of going bust. So many times. And you're like, oh my God, it's incredible. And I'm guessing you've seen the movie Air, which tells—

Yeah.

Yeah, I love— so you read Shoe Dog and then you watch Air and some of the stats that it gives you in Air about that Jordan deal just blows your mind. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. And I think it's possibly the best business biography I've ever read. I think it's a fantastic story and it's, yeah, I can understand why you go back to it time and time again. So for people listening to this that want to find out more about you guys or find out more about your business, Engage, what's the best place for them to go? Where's the best place to track you down and find out more about you?

Yeah, so our website, engage, E-N-G-A-G-E-F-S, so fox.shearer, so engagefinancialservices.co.uk is the website. All of our stuff is on there. We used to have a podcast, which I took a sabbatical on and I'm now coming back to. It was supposed to be a 6-month sabbatical. It's been 4 years, but I am coming back to the podcast. I've told myself, and I'm now putting it out there on other channels so that I need to do that. They can find me on LinkedIn. My email is just sam@engagefs.co.uk. If I can, you know, be of any help to anyone, I will do that with pleasure. But yeah, the website is probably the best place.

Fantastic. Sam, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting to you. Love the wisdom, love sharing. Some conversation about financial services, some of the stuff that I knew well, and some of the stuff which is a new part of financial services to me. So that's, that's really brilliant. So thank you very much for coming on the Progress in Practice podcast. As a reminder for those people that are at home, it's brought to you by the trusted team that helps people running service-based businesses grow their business whilst working less and enjoying more. So yeah, go check out Sam's website. Thanks again, Sam. It's been really interesting chatting to you. and, um, I hope you enjoy watching the World Cup, which is about to happen.

Yes, thank you so much for having us, and, uh, yeah, much appreciated.

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