Becoming An Irresistible Introvert with Michaela Chung (Part 2)

Coming to you from the center for social confidence in Portland, Oregon, welcome to shrink for the shy guy helping men everywhere go from social anxiety to social domination with your host, Dr. Aziz.

Hey, everybody. Welcome. Today's episode of the show today going to be diving into the second half of the interview with introvert expert Michaela Chung. And this has been one of my favorite interviews that I've done. If you haven't listened to the first half, go back and pause this. Listen to the first half of the interview before you dive into the second half, which we're going to dive into in just a second here today, because there's so much stuff that it builds on. And in this second half of the interview, we go deeper into the ways that you can activate a core charisma in yourself, and we actually define what charisma is and how to build it. Some of the secrets that she uses and teaches with her in her classes and with her private clients, and also how to become irresistible as an introvert without changing who you are. So this is extremely valuable. And one thing I really want to highlight because I got some questions after the last episode aired. It's sort of like people are trying to figure out what's the difference between introverts and social anxiety? And how do I know? And here's the thing you want to become. You want to get clear as to what might cause you to want to move away, right? Because as we talked about in the first half of the interview, when an introvert draws energy from being alone, and I'm an introvert, and so I draw energy from being alone. So after being around people for eight hours, I'm gonna wanna go and have some space to myself. So you pay attention to, why do I wanna get away? If you are feeling, oh, people are gonna judge me there. I'm no good. I'm a failure. Oh, I'm awkward. There's just fear, fear of rejection. If that's what's causing you to pull away, that could be avoidance, which is a form of social anxiety showing up. Does that make sense? So you want to ask yourself, why do I want to get away? And that will start to illuminate for you. So, you know, back when I was really struggling in my dating life, I'd see someone I was attracted to, like, oh, I want to go talk to her. No, I don't want to. Well, usually in that moment, it wasn't because I'm introverted. I would have loved to have a conversation with her. It's because I was scared. So just notice if it's fear, and if so, that's probably a form of social anxiety or needing to build confidence in yourself. So hopefully that sets the stage for to answer that question if it's in your mind. And let's dive into the rest of the interview with Mikaela. There's a ton of good stuff. Take notes and without further ado, let's continue.

Expert interview.

So, first of all, congratulations on your book the Irresistible Introvert. Harness the power of quiet charisma and allowed world. And I know people can find it on. On Amazon, elsewhere that people could find it.

Yeah, pretty much everywhere that books are sold. Barnes and Noble chapters, Indigo for people in Canada. Itunes. Yeah, most places.

Nice. So there's something in there that you know, quiet charisma. And you talk about this on your site. So how can an invert. Sorry, invert an introvert become more charismatic? Because sometimes we think charismatic is like, boom, that big person in the room. And you know, there's tons of teachings around being charismatic that are. That do seem to overlap with being an extrovert. So how can an introvert become more charismatic?

So if you actually look at the definition of charisma, it's really just the ability to draw a person in and hold their attention. So it doesn't mean you have to do it in an extroverted way. It doesn't mean you have to do it in a loud way, that you have to be the funniest person, the most talkative person. It just means that you have to hold a person's attention and draw them in in your own way. So for introverts, this could mean drawing someone in through intrigue, through quiet confidence, through an inner self love that. That really shines through. And so I always say that for introverts, true charisma ends on the inside and then emanates out. And the tricky part is that a lot of the old school social skills experts teach people to work from the outside in. And sure, some of it is outer stuff, some of it is body language and voice tone, but that comes afterwards. You have to start with, okay, you know, mindset stuff and building confidence and getting rid of those beliefs that you're somehow a horrible person for being an introvert.

Yeah, absolutely. I love that definition of charisma, by the way.

Thank you.

And that's. And it's really broad. I mean, there's a million one ways to do that. So it doesn't lock you into a specific posture or style of relating that you have to do. So let's go deeper into that you said, well, maybe it's the outer, but it's a lot of the inner and it's shedding old beliefs that don't help us and building that core confidence. So how, what are some of the ways that you've seen, what are some of the things that people shift to get that, how, what have you seen helps people build that core inner charisma?

Yeah, again, there are a lot of ways and I talk about the more of the detailed sort of exercises and things in my book the Irresistible Introvert. But one thing that I like to teach people is to shift your mindset away from having a beggar's mindset in social situations and move into a giver's mindset. And so what that means is oftentimes as introverts, we feel like we're taking something away from people when we talk to them. And when you go in with that mindset, then you're never fully present. And people read that as you being aloof or as you not wanting to talk to them. Whereas if you go in and say, my presence is a gift, my attention is a gift, and I'm actually giving someone something of value by giving them my full attention, then your energy really shifts and people will be drawn to you because they'll see you're fully in it. That's the biggest thing I think when you first meet someone is you. A lot of times you feel like, ah, they don't really want to talk to me so I'm just going to say hi, but I'm not really going to commit to the conversation because I don't think they care anyways. And then the other person thinks, oh well, they don't care so I'm not going to, they're not that interested in talking to me so I'm not going to spend much time talking to them. But whereas if you really go in and think, okay, you know, I have, I'm a valuable person and just me listening is a gift, then that's the perfect foundation for a real connection.

We're going to pause for just one moment, take a quick break and be right back right after this.

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Yeah, I think that that shifts your energy entirely too. And I love that idea of like, we kind of. They don't want to talk to me. And then. So then the way we approach them creates a, you know, lukewarm response. And then we're like, ah, see, all right, I'm out of here. And perpetuates this cycle. So that's. That's really powerful is the giving. You know, my presence is a gift versus I'm begging or taking something by talking with them. Yeah, that's really. That's really good.

Our.

Are there any others that come to mind that you would do with someone or that are from your book that would help improve someone's mindset?

Yes. Well, so self love is kind of one of those trendy catchphrases nowadays. And I do talk a lot about self love.

Yeah, next. Yeah, who needs that, right?

You're like, okay, self love. What does that even mean? And I know, believe me. But I did have to include it because, of course, self love is the foundation for confidence and charisma. So one thing that I teach in my book and, you know, in my courses is with self love, you know, it doesn't. You can't just think, I'm gonna love myself more and that's it. And you just all of a sudden fall in love with yourself. Like, you. You actually respond to action. Like your mind responds to how you treat yourself. So one thing that I teach is to recognize what actually makes you feel loved. Like, what are your associations with love and to be able to provide those things for yourself. And so before you kind of write that off and think of just really basic stuff like a hug makes me feel loved or a love letter makes me feel loved, actually, sometimes it's sneakier things, like food. This was groundbreaking for me as I realized that I really tied love with food and that whenever I felt bad about myself and I felt like I didn't deserve love, I would restrict my diet in some way. And I want to say I've never been anorexic or anything like that. I would just like, go on a very restrictive kind of like vegan diet or something like that. And the point is, it would feel restrictive. I am all about having a healthy diet, but I would. It was like I was restricting love. And so I realize now whenever I want to amp up my self love and. Or I feel like I'm starting to feel bad about myself, I'm very careful to eat well and to feel like there's an abundance of good food around me and to not restrict myself in that way. And so, I mean, that's just one example. You could also associate love with, you know, just certain self. Self care practices. Just taking better care of yourself, doing things, kind things for yourself that you normally expect other people to do, or doing kind things for yourself that you don't necessarily think you deserve. You know, even like lighting candles at dinner. I know it sounds cheesy, but things like that, that you think, well, that's only for guests. I'm not good enough for that, but it's good enough for my guests. Think of the kind, what kind of message that sends to your subconscious. So it's all about thinking of what you associate with being valuable and loving and then being able to give that to yourself.

Yeah, I mean, those are great ideas. And it's so interesting. I got really fascinated by this not too long ago, maybe about two months ago, where I noticed this tendency to. We're all kind of on guard when we're talking about self love. We're all sort of like throwing in the caveats for the cynic or the dismissive response. And I noticed I did this all the time. And there was. I would do it even in like, not just, you know, stuff that's out for the general public, but even in like a really close inner circle. Like I have a mastermind group of people that are, you know, they've bought in, like, we're working together for a year, they want this stuff. And still I'm like speaking to the cynic, like, oh, this, I know this sounds cheesy or whatever. And then I got really fascinated by that. I was like, why am I doing that? Why are we all doing that? Why is it that if someone said, you know, if you treat yourself in these ways, like, you know, you put something beautiful out for your guests, if you do that for yourself. Why is our initial response to roll? I mean, think about that, the rolling of the eyes and scoffing, those are signs of contempt. And in Gottman's work, those are one of the signs of the horsemen of the apocalypse or the end of a relationship. So if you take that further, it's like the cynicism and the kind of dismissive nature that we have towards self. Love is pretty powerful and I think it says a lot. So I am all about like, yes, more of these ideas. The cheesier the better, the more absurd. I mean, why not? Because that just shows like an Open heart. Like, I'm willing to treat myself incredibly, and I'm gonna treat myself more, you know, with more love than I would maybe anyone else. And I think that's. That's powerful. So I love your ideas, and thank you for sharing those.

Yeah, yeah, and I'm glad you said that too, because I was like, oh, his audience is gonna think self love is cheesy. And so I'm glad that you. It's something you talk about too, and you understand, you know, this kind of hesitancy to use certain words.

Yeah, well. And, you know, the. One of the cores things is just that there is a. There is a pretty frequent toxic voice that most of us either are. It kind of dominates our minds or we've done a lot of work and it's sort of, you know, waiting in the periphery to pounce on us. And that's the voice that I think, you know, dismisses this stuff. So, yeah, if you're listening and you're like candles, dumb, you know, just slow down. Like, you know, give it a. Give it an. If self love. Even that name. I was gonna say give it a different name. But why. I mean, don't you want to love yourself? I want to love myself. So I'll get off my soapbox here, but I think it's extremely important and so many problems are solved when we really are either loving ourselves or at least committed to getting better at loving ourselves, even if we're not fully there yet. So thank you for sharing that stuff. So you talk about an irresistible introvert. Another term that I love is that is that different than a charismatic person or what is, what isn't? What do you think of when you say an irresistible introvert? We're going to pause for just one more moment and then dive back into the interview with confidence expert Michaela Chung.

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I imagine someone who just completely embraces their quiet nature, their quiet gifts again, somebody who's okay with their introversion and who uses the power of introverted charisma, so draws people in, holds their attention in their own quiet way. And I, I always think back to this girl that I knew when I was in high school. I was actually quite religious. I was Christian when I was in high school. I'm not anymore. But anyways, there was a girl in the, in my youth group who was really quiet and oftentimes she would just kind of sit at the edges and, and read. She would just read her Christian romance novels. But she was also like really, really when you talked to her, there was just something about her that made her really intriguing and made you drawn to her. And it wasn't that she was, she wasn't trying very hard. And I think that's part of what made her intriguing. But she was just with the people that she cared about. She was just open and loving. But she, she never really apologized for her quietness. She never really seemed to feel self conscious about the fact that she just wanted to read sometimes that she wanted to be alone. And I always think back to that and I think, wow, that's really amazing for a teenager in such an extroverted church environment because it was a Pentecostal church, to be able to just own who she was. And people, yeah boys liked her and she had close friends and I at the time was not okay with who I was. I felt super self conscious about my introversion. And so that was. I always think back to her as an example of an irresistible introvert.

I love that what a the best definition possible because it was a story with like imagery and a really powerful message there. And I think it just highlights what we were talking about earlier is like the more you fully embrace who you are and how you are and that peace inside of you I think emanates something and if it's not already been measured, I'm sure it can and will be pretty soon in terms of energetically what we're emitting because there is, I think everyone listening to that can relate to like oh yeah, I, there is that person that I know who I was just drawn to, everyone seemed drawn to and it wasn't because they were the loudest or they talked the most. There's just something about them.

Yeah.

And I love that. I love that. Well man, there's, there's so much we could get into. I would like to get like 50 more self love strategies but the best place to do that would be to go deeper. So what's the best way for people to find out more about what you teach, follow you and just learn more about how to become an irresistible introvert?

Yeah, I invite everybody to join my community at my website introvertspring.com I have so many free resources you can sign up for my mailing list. There are plenty of places for you to sign up and get my free Introvert connection guide and my Introvert Charisma blueprint. So I just invite everybody to come visit my website introvertspring.

Nice. And to check out the book the Irresistible Harness the Power of Quiet Charisma in a Loud World, which is out now. Get it anywhere books are sold. Awesome. Thank you so much, Mikayla, for joining us and just giving us all more permission to fully be ourselves, which is the source of all confidence. So thank you so much.

Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.

That brings us to the end of the interview, but not the end of the episode because there's an extremely important action step that we're gonna need to do today.

Time for.

Your action step for today is to come up with that list. Remember she was talking about the list of how do you, what do you. What causes you to feel loved? Not just saying something great to yourself, like, oh, you're, you're a great person. I mean, maybe that does it for you, but maybe not. And you know, if you notice the example she gave, there's a lot of thought, a lot of introspection, a lot of soul searching that's gone into that for her to find those ways that she feels more loved. And we want to do the same. We want to make a study of it. So just this week, ask yourself and pay attention to what makes me feel more loved. What is it? What happens? Is it something subtle? Is it about the way I treat myself? Is it what I treat myself to and let it be super small and super subtle? Or maybe something a lot bigger like who you choose to spend time with. And one of the most powerful lessons I learned that transformed my life is, is that it is important for me to take care of myself. It's essential for me to take care of myself. In fact, it's most important for me to take care of myself because no one else can take care of me in the way that I can because no one else is inside my head or my body or knows exactly what I'm feeling and needing. And so taking care of yourself, how do you do that? Because that is a form of self love. So sometimes saying no to something is taking care of yourself. And I might give you more permission to do that. Sometimes giving yourself something is taking care of yourself. So find the ways that you can love yourself. Come up with that list even if it's small, even if it's two things, just do those two things a lot and then build on that and do those things. So your action step is to come up with a list and then at least do one of them and start bringing more and more of those into your life. Until we speak again. May you have the courage to be who you are and to know on a deep level that you're awesome. Talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks, and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com.