Becoming An Irresistible Introvert with Michaela Chung (Part 1)

Coming to you from the center for Social Confidence in Portland, Oregon. Welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy Helping men everywhere go from social anxiety to social domination with your host, Dr. Aziz.

Hey, welcome to another episode of the show. I'm Dr. Aziz. And this is a place for you if you want to become more. More fully yourself, more confident, more free to be you in any situation. Socially, at work, in your dating life, in your love life. This show is going to help you become more of you. And that's why today is especially important because it's the first part of my interview with someone who is an expert on introversion, on being an introvert, on what it actually means. And she teaches actually how to become an irresistible introvert. And it's fascinating what she knows and what she shares.

And.

And I'm super excited to share that with you today because what you're going to see is the core of our conversation is it's not about fixing yourself. It's not about becoming something other than who you are. It's about how to excel in life and get the relationships that you want and the success that you want, all the stuff that you want, not by changing who you are, but becoming more of who you are by embracing these parts of yourself, by. And building on your strengths rather than trying to hide something or fix yourself. And this is true for if you're an introvert or anything else you probably listen from other episodes. I'm a big believer in shifting our mindset so we're not criticizing ourselves and beating ourselves up. And then as we stop doing that, our natural confidence really just emerges. So if, first of all, you're going to learn exactly what an introvert is, because that's the first question I start with, is like, okay, let's define the what an introvert is. And then even before we get into the interview, if there's. If you kind of have a sense of like, oh, I think I am more introverted, you're definitely going to want to listen to this because it's going to give you so much more space and freedom to be who you are and more confidence, too. And I can't wait. So let's get right into it. If you want to go deeper into this show, go to shrinkforthshy guy.com shrinkfor the shy guy.com. you'll see show notes there from my interviews, as well as a chance to get my free ebook, five Steps to Unleash youh Inner Confidence, which is extremely powerful and valuable and free. So you can go there to get that as well as you can ask me a question there. There's just a ton of stuff.

So.

Shrinkforthshyguy.com and without further ado, let's dive into my interview now.

Expert interview.

My guest expert today is Michaela Chung. She's an introvert author, coach, and entrepreneur. And she's the founder of a site called Introvert Spring, which helps thousands of visitors quietly revolutionize the way they see themselves. She's written over 300 articles and has two ebooks. And her new book, the Irresistible Introvert Harness the Power of Quiet Charisma in a Loud World, just came out July 5th. So pretty recently here. And congratulations on that. And thank you so much for joining us on the show, Mikayla, thanks for having me.

The lovely introduction.

Awesome. Yes. So we'll definitely get into the book. That's a great title, by the way. So we're going to find out more about that. And I love the phrase quiet charisma because that says a lot. So the first question that I would love to ask you before we go any further is because you work around introversion and helping people become their fullest self, let's get clear on what we mean by that because there's a variety of definitions or people think different things when they hear that word. So how do you define or how would you describe an introvert?

That's the perfect question to start out with because there are so many misconceptions about what an introvert is. And one of them is that an introvert is shy. And that actually is not what an introvert is. An introvert is simply somebody who gains energy from being by themselves and loses energy in overstimulating environments such as social environments. But it could also be crowds, places where there are loud noises, bright lights, that kind of thing. And so an extrovert is the opposite. They actually gain energy in social situations and they gain energy from. From more stimulation. They want to be out and about more than introverts and they lose energy when they spend too much time alone.

Interesting. So it's really about how we regain and build energy versus how social or shy or any of those things that we are.

Exactly, exactly.

That is awesome. And I love that definition. And that's been true in my experiences. They're different things. Shyness or fear around others is not the same as introversion. So that's great. Well, let's. Let's dive right into that. And that kind of blows my mind because I am an introvert and the idea of recharging from lots of time around people blows my mind. I'm like, that actually happens. People experience that. But obviously they must, because that's what an extrovert would be. What is your sense of. Are more people introverts or more people extroverts? What have you found in your study and research?

Well, the research varies, but we can estimate that about one third to one half of the population is introverted. So that's a lot more than it seems to be. And that's probably because plenty of introverts pretend to be extroverts and because there are so many misconceptions, again, about what an introvert is. So people think, oh, well, that person. Person's okay with talking with other people. They're friendly, they must be an extrovert. But they could need a lot of time to recharge whenever they socialize. So, yeah, there's just. It's just hard to see how many introverts there really are out there.

Yeah. What are some of those misconceptions? Like what. When the average person might hear introvert, what do they. What do you think a lot of people think of or associate to that? Mm.

Well, it's funny. I did a radio interview a couple weeks ago, and the interviewer was telling me that she had gone to some sort of seminar, and the person kind of wrote introvert and extrovert on the whiteboard, and they wrote an X over introvert and then circled extrovert. And they said, you don't want to be an introvert. You want to be an extrovert. And I mean, luckily, this lady went and talked to him afterwards and said, hey, no, that's not true. You can't be teaching people this. But I mean, that summarizes what a lot of people think. They just think that extroversion is the ideal to aim for. It's superior, and introversion is just kind of a deficiency. And then, you know, the offshoots from that are that introverts are depressed, they're antisocial, they're shy, they're timid. So many things that introverts are hermits. So, yeah, there are a lot of negative words associated with introversion.

Right. Shy, depressed, antisocial, hermits. Those are introverts. So let's, um, let's address that right away, because I know there are people listening who maybe identify with that. Like, yeah, I don't. I do. Like more time alone. And in their minds, there's a pretty clear belief like, yes, that isn't as good. I mean, isn't it better to be the kind of person who does always want to go to the party, who gets into the room and just wants to talk to everybody for networking, for business, your dating life, your social life, isn't that better? Isn't that a better way to be in the world?

Yeah, that's the way a lot of introverts think. And that's what I thought for a long time. And to tell you the truth, it's really hard for me still to not catch myself falling into that kind of limiting belief that, oh, it's better to be out there all the time. But actually, if you think about it, if you go back to the basics and just realize, okay, well, extroverts do that and they feel good and they feel energized. Introverts do that and after a while they feel drained and they feel bad about themselves. So on the other end, if an introvert honors their introversion and they actually spend more time alone, then they can be intensely creative, they can be innovative, they can become masters. Because, you know, they say it takes 10,000 hours to become exceptional at something, to become a master at something. And so a lot of introverts become exceptional because they honor their introversion, they honor their need for intense focus and to be alone. And if they waste time trying to be extroverted, then they can't accomplish as much and they end up not feeling as good about themselves.

We're going to pause for just one moment, take a quick break and be right back right after this.

Okay, now it's my turn to talk. God, I'm so nervous. What was he saying? Say something. Don't just sit here like an idiot. So what kind of work do you do? Tired of awkward conversations? Ready to master this area once and for all? Get yourself a copy of the Confidence Code, an all new updated version which teaches you how to maximize your self esteem and master all kinds of social interactions, from introductions to engaging conversations, to jumping into groups. Go to YourConfidenceCode.com now to learn more.

That's really powerful because one of the things I believe is that we want to strengthen our strengths. And a lot of people, they notice an area where it's not a strength for them. They spend a lot of time trying to shove that square peg into the round hole. Like, no, I should just get. And it doesn't matter that I don't feel good doing it. I don't like doing it. I should be that way. But I think if you have a more introverted tendency, no matter how much you force yourself to do it, I mean, you might get good at talking to people, but it might not be your. Not energize you and delight you and therefore be a strength in the same way as some of the things that you described. That focus, that creativity, that being, ability to go deep and master something.

Exactly. And I love that you brought that up. That whole idea of strengthening your strengths as opposed to working on your weaknesses until they become strengths, which is something I heard a lot growing up. I'm pretty sure it was on one of those inspirational posters. And I just think it was so ridiculous to be taught that because I would be so much further ahead if I had started off just working on my strengths and accepting my weaknesses. And only another thing I tell introverts is, you know, strengthen your weaknesses to the point where it serves you as much as you need to. Like, if you need to be out there for something that's important to you, like your career, if it's worth it to you, then sure, strengthen it as much as you have to for that bigger picture goal. But you don't have to turn yourself into a different person. You know, it all. It all should be done with a higher purpose in mind.

Absolutely. And that was. That was my philosophy and theory. And in finding my wife was like, let me get social enough with women to be able to find one and then bring her back to my hermit cave where we don't have to go out into the world. Right. And I actually you mentioned inspirational poster. I had a poster too on my wall when I was young that said, strengthen your weaknesses, you introverted loser. And that's what's inspired me to become the confident extrovert that I am. No, but I love this. And what we're highlighting is how strong that message is that. That you're flawed. And I think that it. Man and I have similar journey with you and like really studying this stuff and giving more and more permission to see. Okay, how am I really? And still, you have to catch that. I was just at a mastermind meeting last week and it was three days of like hanging out all day. And one evening there was a gathering afterwards and I was just like, I don't want. No, I don't want to go. Like, I'm done. Eight hours around nonstop interactions. I just want to walk outside. It's a beautiful day in San Diego. And I did, which is good because many years ago, I wouldn't have even honored that. I would have forced myself to go, but I didn't. And I felt personally fine about it. But there was a Moment when I was leaving of like someone was like, oh, hey, so I'll see you at the place. And I was like, no, I'm going to go around and walk. And I had just this moment of like, oh, the better thing to say would be like, yeah, yeah, see you there. And. And it wasn't enough to stop me, but it was. It's just that conditioning is so strong because it almost feels like you're like rejecting people or pushing them away or something. When you take care of yourself in that way, how have you helped people reframe that or work with, with that side of things?

I think one word that you used really summarizes it well, and that is permission. It's learning that it's okay to give yourself permission to recharge, give yourself permission to say no and to know that that's okay. And I even, you know, with my students and with my one on one coaching clients, I say, okay, like this is something you can actually map out ahead of time so that you don't feel bad. You can set your boundaries ahead of time, you can set your permissions ahead of time and say, you know what, it's okay for me to leave the party after one hour or half an hour. And it's okay for me to say no to a weekend activity, it's okay for me to stay home on the weekend, that kind of thing. So that when the time comes and you're feeling kind of guilty and you, you're wavering a bit, then you, you go back to your permissions and you say, no, actually this is okay, I can do this.

Good. So giving yourself permission and how do you help people deal with the concern that okay, I can give myself permission, but other people, you know, that friend or those group of people are going to be upset with me. They're going to, you know, somehow it's going to come back to haunt me that I said no.

Yes. And that, that is a difficult part. So one thing I want to point out is the more comfortable you are with your introversion, the less this will be an issue. The less people will question it, the less people will get offended. And you know, part of it you could say is like a vibe thing. It's the people, the people who you attract will be people who just understand you better and people will not reflect insecurities back to you as much when you accept your introversion. So that's one thing that you know, that's the light at the end of the tunnel is I promise you, for those of you listening that once you do embrace who you are in every way, especially your introversion, then people will not get as offended. You won't have as many issues. However, yes, sometimes people do take offense because their feelings are hurt, because they interpret your need for alone time as you rejecting them, as you not liking them. And so one tip that works if it's someone who's a friend or someone who's someone you're dating, is to tell them kind of early on about your needs, about your introversion. So it doesn't have to be such a formal conversation of, like, this is the definition of an introversion, and this is what I need. You can just kind of casually say, you know, I really like my space. I like to be alone sometimes, even though I'm really social and I like you, sometimes I'll probably just go off on my own. So I don't want you to feel offended if I ever do. And I've realized that the earlier you say this and the earlier you kind of put it into practice, then the less people will be offended. Because what happens is it's when you break a pattern with people that they get confused. So if you've been really, really friendly with somebody at a party and then all of a sudden you're like, boom, this conversation is over, and you dart for the corner and you avoid them the rest of the night, then they're like, oh, did I say something wrong? And if you're in a relationship with somebody and you've always kind of made extra time for them, you've spent days on end with them, and then all of a sudden you realize, oh, this is exhausting, and then you start to put up boundaries, that's really confusing for them. So whereas if early on you say, you know, I'm probably going to need some space, like, we spent yesterday together. I'd really like tomorrow to recharge, that kind of thing.

You don't. You need. You don't want to hang out with me today. How could you do this? Right? Yes, But I think what you're. What you said there is extremely insightful, which was that as we become more okay, as we give ourselves more permission, as we own it more and not view it as a problem, it's just, this is a thing about me, then we're going to get a lot less of that pushback or guilt or anything. And that's true probably for any insecurity. The more we accept and clear out our own sense of self and the energy that we emit, the less that stuff comes back to us. And I think that's absolutely true. And I've noticed that in myself, too, that as I've gotten very clear about saying. And now that I have. So I was an introvert, or I am an introvert. And then we have two children, two and a half and eight months old. That makes my time even more. I need to be very mindful or attentive to how I spend time, share time, and with who. And so there's this level of ownership of like, nope, I'm not going to do that. Yes, I can do that. And it's amazing how little pushback I get from people. I think it's because even when I was leaving that mastermind to not go to the party, I was like, oh, no, I'm gonna go for a walk. The person's like, oh, okay. I was like, all right, I'll see you guys tomorrow. And I think that's. That's really powerful. And the other thing you said, which is worth highlighting earlier, the earlier, the better. You know, the much you can set put that out there. And usually the way people approach a friendship or a dating relationship, if you're not okay with it, then you're like, I have to hide this. I have to be more extroverted until they like me, and then I can settle back into me. You know, the old bait and switch model.

Yeah.

And I love your, you know, just put it out there early. And that's. And if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, shit, I. I haven't put it out. Oh, no. Well, still do it now. I mean, you know, now is better than never. And then for the future, early is better than later. We're going to pause for just one more moment and then dive back into the interview with confidence expert Makayla chung. Hey, it's Dr. Aziz here. And I'm sure by now you've heard about my unstoppable confidence mastermind groups where we take eight guys who are held back in some way, maybe they're not having the relationship success that they want. The dating confidence, the ability to speak up and just own it at work or increase their sales, there's some level of self doubt that's holding them back, and we help you just obliterate that so you can move towards what you want in a truly unstoppable way. And the results have been phenomenal in seeing the people that go through this group. And here's why it's so powerful, because you step up and you say, I'm going to do this for six months. You also get around other people and that inspires you like nobody's business. It's not just you and you in your own head. You get support from each other, you get inspired, you get encouraged, you get challenged sometimes. And that's what helps you really break through to the next level. Then on top of that, not only are we talking regularly on the phone, so you can do it from anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world. We also meet for two and a half days in person in Portland and have a really intensive experience that's like diving deep into whatever stopping you and then just shredding it so you can move forward faster than ever before. And as I said, the results have been phenomenal. It's been amazing to watch the guys grow so quickly. I've been shocked at how fast people can grow, especially with those weekend intensives. So if you really want to jump on board with this, I would love to talk to you more about it. Go to social confidence center.com forward slash mastermind. That's socialconfidencecenter.com mastermind. So question for you. You talk about INFJ on your. In some of your articles and your teachings. Some people listening know what that is, some people don't. Can you say, share a little bit more about what that, what that stands for and you know, kind of what that describes?

Yes. So an INFJ is a Myers Briggs personality type. There are 16 different personality types and the INFJ is the rarest in the world. So they estimate that about less than 1% of the population is INFJ. Consequently, INFJs feel misunderstood. They feel like there's something wrong with them. And like a lot of groups of people who feel like they've been pushed to the outside skirts, they've all kind of congregated online. So I actually have an INFJ forum on my website, Introvert Spring. And I'm not an infj, I'm an infp, which is similar and pretty complementary. And then I run the forum with an INFJ forum coordinator. And so some, some other things about an INFJ are that they have this burning need to make a difference in the world and to help people. They're kind of known as one of the most altruistic of the personalities and they genuinely care about people, they want to help people. And so they actually experience the pain of introvert stereotypes very deeply because people are super confused by their personality. An INFJ is very social. They're very friendly, very considerate, and loyal and kind, and so people really feel connected to them. So of course, when an INFJ then needs time to be alone, which of course they do, then people get very confused. So some other characteristics. INFJs tend to be very deep thinkers, which can quickly turn into overthinking. They love to dive deep in conversation, which gives them a label of being intense at times. They're also usually empaths, which means that they literally feel the emotions of other people and this helps them to be counselors, to be in more helper careers and to be more compassionate.

Wow, that's great. So I actually had no idea that was that low of a percentage of the population. And I guess there's, you know, slight, you know, a lot of you could have a lot of similar qualities by having maybe one. I don't know what they're called pole different, like the P instead of the J. In fact, just for someone who's totally doesn't know what the Myers Briggs is, what does the I and the N and the F and the J stand for?

Yes. So I is introverted, N is intuitive, F is feeling, and J is judging. They're all sorts of different letters, so I'm not going to go through them all, but so each letter, they can be all mixed around as far as they're always in the same order, but there are a few different options of how they go together. So, yeah, you could share a lot of the same characteristics with someone like me and an infj, because it's only the J and the P that are different. We do share a lot of the same qualities, but then I'm not quite as, like, I don't have as much of a burning need to help people as, say, an infj. That's the biggest, biggest difference for me personally. And yeah, if there, if the E was, if the I was switched out for an E, then the person would be more extroverted, so they would manifest their personality type in a totally different way.

It's interesting that you say you don't have a burning desire or need to help people because what you're doing, you know, is a super impactful contribution to the world. So actually. Yeah. How do you make sense of that? Is it just the way you're holding it is differently? It's not this like burning need, it's something else.

Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I, I really do help people. But I guess I, the way I do it, I, I don't think like, I always thought helping people had to be Sort of in a really tangible way, like you were a nurse or you helped children in Africa or something like that. And, you know, a lot of the ways that I help people are less tangible through my writing. They really do help people. And I guess when I'm in person with somebody, then I don't feel as much of a need to help whoever I meet, like, just with anything in person. And I know the INFJs that I've met, they're just so selfless and they just want to. They care deeply about people in general, and they just want to do what they can. So, I guess. Does that make sense?

Sure, yeah. Maybe it's a matter of degree or as well as sort of who the. What the mission is. You know, the mission is to help everyone in all contexts, everywhere. Or is it to help sort of in a certain way and a certain. For a certain challenge and maybe a certain group of people?

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, again, I. I work with a lot of INFJs and I have this INFJ forum, but I am an infp, so I can't say exactly how it feels to be an infj, but just from what I've noticed, I do feel like they want to help people. Like in. They just need to help people. They need to.

Sure, yeah. Sounds exhausting. So that brings us to the end of the time that we have today. There is so much more good stuff in this interview. You want to stay tuned. Next week we're going to air the rest of the interview, and we dive deeper into the core ways that you can become more charismatic and become more of an irresistible introvert. How to draw people to you, how to do that, not by becoming the most loud person in the room, but or extremely outgoing, but by changing your inner confidence so it emanates out and people pick up on it, people feel it, and people drawn to you. And some of the stuff she teaches about being an irresistible introvert really resonate with what I teach about being what I call naturally magnetic, where you actually draw people to you. And you might have experienced this at times in your lives or, you know, maybe you see someone or, you know, someone that is just that natural magnetism. They just pull people towards them. So tons of really valuable stuff in that. Stay tuned for that next week. But before we complete for today, we gotta end with something that is extremely important and is the only thing that's ultimately gonna transform you in your life, which is action.

Time for action.

Your action step for today is to pay attention this week when there's an opportunity to do something and see if the your inner response is a yes or a no. Pay a lot of attention instead of just, oh, they want me to go, okay, are they invited me to this? I don't want to offend anyone if that's your reason, but deep in your heart, in your core, it's like, no, I don't want to pay attention to that and honor that. Start to honor this. When she talks about honoring your introvert nature, honor that and really start to pay attention to see if it's social anxiety, right? Like, oh, I don't want to go because I'm going to suck at it and people are going to judge me. That's different. But check in deeper. Why don't I want to go? Am I tired? Does something else sound better in case. Well, in that case, what sounds better? Like when I was talking about the interview for me, a couple hours of walking in the sun by myself in San Diego and just thinking and looking at the ocean and reflecting and creating in my mind. Man, I love that. I love that. In the top of the list right there, top three favorite things. And so if that's what you want to do, then do that. Give yourself that permission and then take action on it this week. Find at least one opportunity to say yes to something or to say no to something that's coming from you. Giving yourself 100% permission to do what you want to do. So that's your action step for this week. And until we speak again next week, may you have the courage to be who you are and to know on a deep level that you're awesome. Talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthshyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com.

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