Confidence Lessons From 2,000 Rejections with Colin Yearwood

Welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy. The show to help you break free from social anxiety, people pleasing and self doubt so you can speak up, connect and be 100% you. I'm Dr. Aziz, sharing tools that have transformed my life and thousands of others. Let's all liberate ourselves together. Welcome to this episode of Shrink from the Shy Guy. I'm excited because today we're going to be interviewing someone that I know that I'm going to learn a ton from and I think you will too. His name is Colin Yearwood and I've had the privilege of meeting Colin in several different contexts. Most like the way I really got to know him more deeply though was we were at a mastermind retreat together about six weeks ago and got a chance to hang out. And Colin is fascinating because he has been on his own journey of growth that he then turns around and helps other people and you know, that's speaking my language. That's what I've been doing for years. And he helps people in maybe a similar vein around confidence, but really helping coaches, consultants and entrepreneurs make sales, which takes, well, a lot of confidence. And he has a background in this. He's been involved in over $4 million worth of coaching sales, 3,000 sales and coaching conversations, and has helped countless build business owners, build confidence, enroll more clients and grow their businesses. So this is gonna be a fascinating episode. You might be in sales, you might be in business. That's very right speaking to you. And though even if you're like, I don't sell, I'm not in sales. As you'll discover through this interview, we're gonna be talking about what's beneath the hood of sales.

Right?

Like the limiting beliefs, the fears, fear of rejection, identity stories about what I'm able to do and not. So there's going to be a lot here for, for anyone and everyone. Thank you so much, Colin, for joining us.

Thanks for having me. That's an amazing introduction. I'm excited to be here and dive in.

Yeah, man, me too. So maybe we'll start with just a little bit of context because you're helping people learn how to sell. You have done a lot of sales conversations. Are you the kind of guy who is like, I was born to sell, man. I was selling my mom when I was 6 years old with my toothpaste business or whatever. Or did you, were you a late bloomer? Do you think you couldn't do it? What's your experience with this?

Definitely a late bloomer. I've been in business, different forms of business since about 2007 in the online space. And I. If I can give it away for free, I find every reason to give it away for free or to discount it. So I. I used to say I hated selling. And I think my behaviors demonstrated that because I would do a lot of complimentary work or low cost work. And this change made about 2016 is when I had a tough talk with a mentor. And he said, if you want these things to be true, you want to be create your own job, have your own business, do these things, you have to learn how to sell. And through that process, I really dived in. And for me, it wasn't about the sales techniques, it was about why I was feeling this way. And then around that same time too, I started getting into personal development. So it was a good blend for me to mix all these new techniques and strategies around selling. That I was against or had, you know, beliefs that weren't true, was good timing that I was doing personal development work too. So it made that transition. Going for someone who hated selling to now. I think selling is one of the best things people can do if they want to make a difference.

Wow.

Okay.

I mean, two questions. One would go with that last thing though. What. What do you mean by that? Selling is one of the best things we can do if we want to make a difference. I think a lot of people hearing this might be like selling, ew, I'm, you know, I'm scared of it or I don't like it. Like as you said, it was one of your stories. Or I don't like when people try to sell to me. How is it. How is it doing something beneficial? Let's start with that.

The most times you want to. If you're in a position that you want to do something big in your life or you want to learn something that would help you create a better situation. Could be your new job. In your business, in your relationships, there is always a. There's many times it's a barrier. And that barrier, a lot of times is the fear around doing that new thing and with the right person who's selling to you, help you reframe that thinking the way you believe and how this thing can help you have what you want. And when that conversation is done in a way that's really aligned. I come from a. Come from a. I don't, you know, I think the phrase heart centered has been overdone on the Internet, but come from a place that being authentic and caring and really want someone to have a result. If you have Someone to guide you through that process. They can help you reframe your beliefs and get you aligned with that resource, that tool that helps you have what you want. Now, a lot of people say, hey, I could do it on my own. But most times we don't do it on our own because we haven't had someone to help us through that decision making process and create that level of clarity that maybe it's a bridge right between where you are and where you want to go.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's particularly interesting because there's a lot of people that I. That I talk to who they have a lot of skills and they are looking. They know maybe they work for a company and they're like, man, I'd like to do my own business. And they might get struck by. What's his name? Is it Gerber? The E Myth. Entrepreneurial myth. Yeah, they get struck by that. He calls it something like a. Like a entrepreneurial spasm or some term that he uses where they get struck with this idea and like, yeah, it's not so hard. I'm gonna do it. And they do have a ton of skill. Like, they could. Their. Their skill set is directly valuable to the marketplace, and people would pay them and they could make more potentially than their job because they don't have all the overhead and all this stuff. But there's one major skill that's needed in addition to your skill that you're offering the world, which is selling. And that's the big roadblock, I think, for a lot of people. And so they want to start their own thing, and then they have to learn selling, and then they bump into all these roadblocks. Right.

Like, ugh.

So let's start with the stories, and then underneath is probably a lot of the fears. But what are some of the big stories you come across when you're helping people maybe who've already got to that place? Okay, I want to sell, but what do you hear? What are some of the top stories that prevent people from really mastering this area?

One of the most common ones I hear is I don't want to manipulate people.

Yep.

People have this perception that selling is manipulation. Right. And we may have experienced it that way in some instances where we've been in selling conversations. Right. I think movies a lot of times show this lazy car salesman or, you know, the wolf of Wall street that had those boys calling, you know, saying anything to close the deal. Right. So I think people have those impressions. So there's one story is that, hey, I don't Want to be that kind of person, manipulate people. The other is you have to be a born seller. You have to be born with these skills. You can develop these skills many times is I don't want people to feel believe I'm greedy or all about the money. You know, I want to be perceived as someone who's caring and kind. I don't want to make it, make it out to be like I'm just about the money to be. Those are common ones I hear often.

Get out of my head. Yeah, I mean that was so for me I very similar to your story of I'm not a natural salesperson and I want to do this work in the world though I'd say I'm very entrepreneurial, primarily directed toward this mission though. So I want to help liberate as many people as possible and I want to sustain that for my life. And so it needs to make money, otherwise it's a beautiful hobby. But I'm only going to put a couple hours in it a week because I got a full time job doing something else. So no, I want this to be the main gig and I want to thrive in life and feel confident in every area including financially. So I want it to be a business that's going well, it's self sustaining, it's helping a lot of people, helping more people. Oh, I gotta sell. And I think that was a big issue for me and can still come up is I don't want to like where is that line between how am I attached right now? Am I pushing? Do I how to do it in a really skillful, clean way and a really non manipulative way. And so let's address that one first. Like if people think yeah, selling is manipulative and you, you know, you have to. Most people don't just say yes right away, right. If, if everyone just said yes right away, you just sell it online with no person involved. Right. It's just buy the thing, click it, buy, buy your next car, click it. And some people do. But a lot of the time people need a some other human involved to help them. How do we have that process feel like it's helping somebody rather than manipulating them.

Yeah. So for me it starts with you. It starts with how you show up in that conversation. And many times if you, if there's a need, if you're showing me in a needy way, if you need to make the sale, if your rent, if your salary, if your promotion is based on that sales conversation, you have a very different level of energy and people feel that now you. The focus shifts from serving and being, hey, totally transparent in the process. I need to make this happen. I'm going to say whatever I want to, whatever I need to say. I'll convince you. I'll beg you. And that gets into the space of manipulation. Usually in those conversations, you're not listening. You're just selling the thing you feel you need to sell so you can have what you want. I think it's getting into conversation, being centered and focused not only on what I want, but what's best for this person at this time. And having a level of detachment from. I have to close this sale, and I'm not an angel. I've been there where I needed to make a sale, I needed to, and it didn't feel right. And, you know, just, you know.

Yeah.

You get that weird feeling. You. You kind of. You start having that internal conversation. Oh, this is awkward. They feel, you know, they're thinking this about me. And then you look at them, they're like feeling awkward and getting weird. So again, it comes back to you being centered about an unattached center to who you are and why you're showing up in this situation. Am I here to serve this person in a powerful way or am I just here for me? And then being unattached from that specific outcome on that specific call or situation.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that goes way beyond just selling any sort of product or program, but life. Right. The more desperately we need something, the more we repel it. It's this. It's this comically tragic principle. It would seem dating is a big one.

I was just thinking this in there. Why. Why is dating coming to my mind?

Oh, yeah. I mean, that's. And that. And so here's the thing. It might seem like sales is about money and dating is about love. What I think often that desperation, that need is. It might seem like it's about money for sales, but often it's about. I mean, for some people, it's literally the roof over the head. But I'm not going to eat tonight. Most people, it's like, I want to feel successful. I want to feel like I'm doing well here. I don't want to be failing at something I don't want. And. And it's about preserving a feeling of self love or worthiness or self esteem. And the same thing in dating. Right. We know that if this new person we just met doesn't want to see you again, like you didn't know them two weeks ago or whatever, it's like you're okay. But that, oh, that feeling inside. And I think that's the real driver of desperation is we don't want to feel which leads to that. The next question is, and whether it's dating or sales or any human interaction, you're going to get no's. People aren't going to want it. People are going to. It's not going to be a good fit for them. And then there we are with that wretched, wretched experience of no which we call rejection, which is awful. We all hate it, right? So, but there it is. It's inevitable. And most people will spend their life avoiding the things they really want to go for because they're avoiding that. So let's face that dragon. What you know, how do you work with that? I'm sure that comes up a lot in your work with people. I'm getting no's and it feels awful.

Yeah, and it will feel awful. We're humans, we don't want rejection. Right then though. The thing about no's is many people, most times, I would say most times, and I did this a lot in my beginning of process is attach it, Attach the note to me. They're rejecting me for some reason, you know, I wasn't good enough in that space for them to say yes to. And it all became about me again. And in most cases, it's not about you, it's about the offer. It could be about the way you presented. The offer didn't really attach itself to what they wanted in that moment, how it didn't attach itself to the benefits that they would like to experience. So they're saying no to the offer. They're not saying no to you. So again, many people are just attached to themselves. The other thing about no is to me, no is a great answer because I couldn't help two ways. One, you're not wasting their time by giving them or forcing them into an uncomfortable conversation. And you're not wasting your time trying to sell someone something that may not work for them. So great, I know there's a no. But also there's ways to go beyond the no. There are questions to ask to go beyond the no to get better clarity. Because some people, the default answer when they're feeling uncomfortable, if even they feel as good for them or not, is no. But there's tactful ways to go beyond the no. And I think most times we know that or we know when is that time to go beyond the no. You can tell from how the interaction is going to.

That's really A fascinating thing in sales and in life and in relationships, right? Because the nice person, if we're nice, we don't. It's maybe hard enough to ask for something at all. I don't want to burden somebody by asking them. I'm going to bother them by asking them for this favor or whatever. So we got that going and we work up the courage anyway. We're like, well, I hope they say yes, that'll feel better. And then if they say no now, we got maybe like, oh, no, I've done something wrong. I knew I was a burden. I'm bothering them. And then in sales it's like, oh, actually. And you, and you keep having the conversation that that's going to be. And then there can be a feeling, especially if you're a nice person, which is like, oh, wait a minute. You're supposed to respect someone's no, right? They say no. Say you want to go talk to someone on a. Meet them, you know, at a, at a bar or something. You're like, hey, how are you doing tonight? And they're like, I don't want to talk to you right now. Like, well, listen, you know, you're like, okay, you know. So that's a fascinating nuance there of some. You persist with the no. Isn't that pushy and mean and.

Yeah, especially the last part. That's about the part that throws everyone off. It can be. If there's not a level of rapport that was built in the conversation. That's one thing in sales conversations there. There's some structure to go through and it's having a high level of rapport, but also setting the expectations so people know this is what's going to happen on the call. If I think I can help you, I'll sell you something at the end. Is that cool? So you get a little bit of a. Agreement at the beginning of the conversation. So you have some permission to go a little bit further as you go through that conversation, right? Because if you're having a good back and forth or if the person, you know, if you have a good back and forth, you will know, okay, well, I can go a little bit. I can dig a little deeper. I can become a little bit more curious. But if the person is giving you one word answers all the time through the call or on in the conversation, so you're like, yeah, they're not feeling it. This is not a good time for them. You know, you wrap it up in a nice way and move on. But there's signals that happens in in conversations and you know, and even, even, you know, in a bar, you can leave it a nice way. You know, hey, sorry, it's not a good time for you. Right. And you kind of move on. You don't have to be. Wish you can disappear right away as soon as they say no. But there's some nuance to it. You get a feel of how the conversation is going and there's some expectations that, that were laid out and some agreements that were made during the call.

Yeah. I think one of the challenging things, whether it's the bar conversation or the sale or in a, in a relationship is it's a very. There you don't, it's like almost a game, like a tennis match or something or a, or maybe even you can think of a collaborative game. Because tennis match might feel like win, lose, but you don't, you're playing with another person. You don't know all of what's happening for them and you don't know how they're going to interpret things. And so what I found fascinating is I could be. And I really believe the power of what you're saying of like coming to the conversation from a more open, spacious. I'm not going to control anything here. We're going to see what we can create. Right. Because if I'm going to control something, then I'm already, it's already set down a path of suffering. So. And still I can find that I can be committed in that way and persist. And some people at the end of. It's like, wow, that was great. I'm ready, let's do it. And some people are like, no. And seemingly I don't like that you persisted. Right. You know, and that, that occasionally happens too. And I feel like that's the, the tricky thing. If we're super nice and we never want to persist, then we avoid those ones that are potentially yeses. But it's, it's a, there's something that I think we really need to let go of making it personal. I find even if they do judge us, which they may or may not, that I think has been a real growth for me to keep practicing.

One thing, one thing I want to mention with when to persist. Right. Is usually just permission based. Hey, I'm curious. So, hey, no, that's not for me right now. Would you mind if I ask the question? Would you mind expanding on that for me a little bit? And most people are nice people. They're. They'll open up and they'll share with you. In my experience of Thousands of sales calls, maybe 10. Just shut me down and get off the line. Right? I'm like, oh, man, they're having a bad day.

Yeah.

I wish I was more helpful for them. But most people, if you get curious about the. No. Right. Oh, it's not a good time for you. Tell me more about that. People are willing to open up and expand on it, and then you're able to hear the story behind why. And that allows you now to go a little deep in the conversation and see if you can support them.

Yes. This is fascinating. So we want to. We want to crack open that, that genius skull of yours and extract the wisdom. Thank you so much for sharing with us. But what I'm getting reminded of right now is dating. And back in my learning how to date days, I was not a natural. So anyone who's listening, who's like, I'm not a natural at selling or negotiation or assertiveness or sal, it's like, great, you're in good company because neither are we. And yet the talent is overrated. It's a myth that you're just born with it. And it's anything that you invest your energy and focus and willingness to study, you'll get better. And that's like a you, you cannot not get better at something if you're intentionally studying it and practicing it for months. It's like, you might not be as good as you want to yet, but you will undeniably better than a month or two ago. That's just whatever the thing is. So that's a. I think we want to bust that one right there. But when I was listening to dating and dating advice and stuff, I would. Sometimes someone who is skillful in dating would share some of their internal mindset. And I'd be like, what?

That's.

Oh, that's a very. I was always looking at their behavior, but I didn't realize that it comes from the mindset. So I remember one time there was a guy who shared that he would approach women and he. Instead of looking for signals of they don't want to talk to me, which is what I would do, like, oh, I don't want to bother them. He'd be looking for signals that they did want to talk to him. And as soon as there was like a moment of buy in or like, ooh, okay, she responded to me there in his mind, he would say, oh, it's on. Like, she's into me, basically is the frame he'd be working from. And I thought, wow, what a different universe. He's not always right. I mean, maybe she. It fizzles or something, but you play it very differently. So I'm curious, when you go into, let's say you're about to do a sales call with somebody, what is your perception of the other person? Do they want your product or not going into it, how do you see them? How do you see yourself? What do you think is your mindset going into that sales call question?

So for me, it starts with me. I have a routine every day that I work to get myself into a good state. I wish I woke up every morning ready for. Ready for the world. But it took. It takes a process. And if, especially if I know I have early sales calls, I try to be intentional in my process and just be aligned with who I am and certain developing certainty and confidence about how I want to show up. Depending on, you know, sometimes I sell for my clients or some self myself. If so clients, I want to go through their content, listen some of their testimonials, get some positive vibes in my head. I know you like Tony Robbins is your guy, at least a lot of Tony stuff. And I just, it really increases my belief that I'm showing up for a good, you know, for good showing up in a. In a way that'll serve them and serve myself. So I get myself in order. The second thing is just find a reason to like that person. I just find a reason to. Like most people I'm selling something to have agreed to get into the conversation. I'm not randomly calling someone up, interrupting their breakfast or interrupting their lunch and trying to sell them something. They're. They're in a space where they're willingly participating in this conversation. And then I, yeah, find something to like about them in this. Adrian, you can go on social media, see who they're, who they are, read some notes, get a good feel of that person and I get on the call excited, okay, how can I help them? How could this thing. I have helped them. And that's how I get myself set up for it and then get into the call and just being totally unattached to the outcome, it's easier to do that now. One of the things I. I'll share many times if I tell my clients I'm selling for a commission and I heard someone said this years ago and I, I adapted that. This one commission is not going to change my life. But if I show up in a, in this conversation as a solid person who wants to serve and care the conversation regardless if they buy or if they if they don't buy, have the potential to change their lives. And that's a bear shrub, get on the call and I follow the process. One of the things you mentioned earlier, like the data expert who look for signals, I look for signals in the conversations. I want to talk about the things they want to talk about. So if someone mentioned, hey, this is my big goal, this is my big challenge, tell me more about that. I get curious about that. I don't focus on the script, but I focus on the process. And if I'm focusing on the script, I'm just reading lines. But if I'm focusing on the process, I'm having a conversation and communicating with someone and getting curious beyond the initial response. Right. Like, ah, that's interesting. How long have you felt that way? And I just get into them as a person. I have my process to follow, but I don't want to get into them as a person. And then you realize in most cases people are disarmed, they become really open to finding a solution that they're looking for and then the process happens from there.

Yeah, that's really powerful, man. And it highlights the. It is all where we're coming from. Right. Because you could ask those questions as a means to an end. Oh, tell me more about that. And you're interested. And you're also maybe knowing, oh, this will have helped them open up or whatever. This is going to be good for the process of the sale. And you're aware that you're not just having a chit chat about whatever, you know, you're there to talk about something specific and see if that whatever you're going to offer is good for them. But there's a. There's just a real human element and reminds me of something I read from John Cabot Zinn a long time ago, who worked with meditation students and maybe even patients, I think. Yeah, I believe that's when I read the context. He was working with medical patients, but before he opened the door to see the next patient, he would take just, you know, 30 seconds, 60 seconds to really tune into. This is a, this is a full human that's about to come through my door.

Right.

Like with all of it, they're born and their family and they got their goals and their dreams and their regrets and they're on this soul journey and then they're going to die. And really. And can I feel that for them? Can I, can I, can I care about their, their life while I'm, you know, and then I can serve them medically or Whatever. And I think that's really, I'm really hearing something like that and what you're talking about.

And that's the approach I, I take. I'm, you know, I've evolved into this approach. When I first started selling, I was very robotic and I just wanted to follow the process because that's what the script said to do. But after a while, I, I've all naturally been someone who wants to help people. I think most, most of us, we have a desire to show up powerfully in people's lives or be helpful, be useful. So that's the angle I've always taken. Just getting curious and caring about people as they move forward. One of the things I'm, you know, I've heard, and it's true, selling skills could be used for good and it could be used for evil. Dating tips could be used to manipulate people, or it could be done to build serious bonds and tight connections. So it's dependent on the person and how you're showing up in that situation. And in most cases, you can show up as the best version of yourself. And that comes back again to how you choose to show up, how you prepare yourself to show up.

Well, that's a great thing that I wanted to circle back to, which is how you prepare. And one thing you said is I, I go into the conversation as unattached as I, you know, be unattached to the outcome. And I think that's the, the golden key that many people realize for a lot, all, maybe all of life, right. Is how do I take inspired action without, with that outcome, independence, without needing a certain outcome right now. Right. And you mentioned one thing of like, well, this one commission is not going to change my life, but this could radically change theirs. Do you have any other things, whether it's a specific mindset or even some practice or ritual you do that's not directly related to letting go, but that, you see, helps you. Anything that you do in your life that helps you really come to whatever the situation is with that more committed, open, curious, and not graspy attached state.

Well, when I'm in that graspy and attached state, I don't feel good at all. I'm miserable. And I don't want to be in that needy, grassroots state. And that state comes from just interaction relationships of having an awkward conversation with my kids. It didn't go my way and they left and I'm upset. I don't want to be there. So I'm the kind of person always try to find a way to resolve that and get back into a position where I want to. How I can show up as the best version of myself. I use a lot of affirmations. Some I make up in the moment, some I have on a wall. And I, you know, I repeat. And I just don't repeat affirmations as something robotic. I believe it. Right. I stop and test myself. Is that true? You know, and the other thing I remind myself every day, I don't want to be a transactional type of person. It doesn't have to be a quid workhole. Yes. It's hard at times because I've been nice to you all day kids. Why. Why don't you want to hang out with me? Right. So I don't want to be a transactional kind of person. And that, that, that reminder constantly let me know it's not about this one situation. It's a bigger compound in effect. Yeah. And, and I, I actually had a call with someone this weekend. He's on a sales team. I'm coaching him. And he told me, hey, he had two sales. So this, I think this will go back to the whole compound effect. He. He made two sales, and then he had a lot of calls that didn't go well. And he said, well, I don't even feel I earned those, man. It just happened. I'm like, dude, you actually did. Because how you showed up in that entire process caused those two things to just happen. And that's something I believe also how you show up as a whole, things start happening in your favor.

Yes. Yeah, that's. That's really fascinating. What I'm hearing there is. You're zooming out. So if we're looking at this one conversation, did I do the right things and make it go my way? Yeah.

No. Yes.

Not really. There's ways that you show up, though, that allow things to go the way that you want more and still doesn't mean that you get a bunch of no's too. Right. But there's that. You have to. Steve Chandler says yes, lives in the land of no. So, yes. Yeah, Gotta do it. Right. But it is, it is fascinating, though. I know exactly what that your client is describing in that. I've had experiences where I'm really, like, kind of open and spacious. I really describe it in that way because it feels like the contracted state is like, I can physically feel it, you know, it's tight inside. Whereas I'm just like, hey, let's see here. But I'm not just expansive with that one person. It's about life too. Right. It's a larger trust in this process or hey, I want to offer this thing in the world. And sometimes it's going to be selling like gangbusters. And sometimes I'm like, do people even want this anymore? And, and there's a, there's a way where when I'm showing up like that, I really do see there's always perhaps something better I could do.

Right.

That's the never ending mastery curve. And at any, at this moment today, I am as good as I can be at this thing. You can't. If you can play a certain song on the piano, you can't just will yourself to play something that's like three years later worth of training. Doesn't matter how intense you are. And it's the same thing in these calls. It's like, okay, there's things I. Someone else who's got 10 more years experience I like, ah, you didn't. But here's where I'm at. I'm showing up my best. And then you'll talk, I'll talk to several people and they're like, no, no, no, no. And then another person is like this. They just, oh, yes, I'm ready, I'm in. And then I'm like, dang, my fancy footwork is pretty minimally making the difference here. And let me just keep showing up and keep talking to people and then I'll help and serve the ones that are ready.

You know, I think the thing with sales, it's a numbers game, but I think the numbers can guide you. The average Salesperson is about 15 closes 15 to 20% of their conversations into a yes. A rock star in the sales space is 30 to 40%. If you're a baseball player, you're betting 303 out of 10, you're going to the hall of fame. So to me, like, knowing those numbers kind of helps you gauge your expectations. That's one thing. Right? I am not everyone I speak to is going to say yes today and that's totally fine. I'm not actually four out of five.

Are going to say no. Right. Great with those. By those statistics, especially if you're a.

Beginner, like 4 out of 5, 9 out of 10. If you're new to selling, it's not unusual for 9 out. You get 9 out of 10 no's. But in those nos there's so much learning. And that comes to. The second thing I want to mention is practice, like review and practice. Many times we get. Many people get a no. They're like, oh, I'm not even gonna look at the tape. I. I knew it sucked. I knew I shouldn't have done this, you know, but you haven't given your chance. Let me review. Let me just sit down and give an honest review. What could I have done better? Actual went well. I build up the nerve to get on the call. That's one thing that went well. It could have gone better. What's one thing that could have gone better? You know, and what's one thing I'm going to change the next time? So I actually use a three, two, one process. Three things I did well. Two things that I could improve or could have gone better. I was wanting. I'm going to do it for the next time. And I think when you go through that process, you realize, oh, I'm actually doing more things well that I actually give myself credit for. And that also allows you to build and have that compounding effect and help you grow in confidence and like, oh, okay, it's going my way. It's going my way. And it says also is not only you is that person's situation. They could be a heck, yeah, I want to do this. But then your finances honestly doesn't support that answer. You did the best you can do.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. 3, 2, 1. So it's three things you did well.

Correct.

Two things you could do differently, like areas to improve or whatever. And then the one thing is what you would do differently.

Yeah. So a lot of times implementing change could be hard. Right. You don't want to implement. You know, go and focus on changing two things all at once. Which of those two things I want to work on the next call.

Got it. So you address the thing. I think this could be really helpful out. I mean, I know with social anxiety, conversation replays can be a real sticky, soft hellhole. Right. It's just like I should have said this. And people get kind of. It's almost a obsession or neurotic loop we can get into with it. And so this is a very helpful way to have a structured way to look back and in a way that's actually guiding you for the future. Right. And it forces you to come up with three things you did well. Whereas if something didn't a conversation didn't go the way we wanted, we can be like so focused on the negative half of the quanta. It's like, oh, this is not gonna work suck. So that's. I love that that process. And I would encourage, if you're listening to this, beyond sales conversations, any type of thing you're trying to get better at that or anything you're wanting to review to improve. What a, what a great way to, to do that.

I also think it's a process interrupt because with clients I work with, they get on a call, okay, tell me about a call. And they'll list easily list 10 things that went wrong. And I would not, I would, I say, wait, wait a second, wait a second. No, I just want the three things that went right. And people have a hard time finding three things that went right. But if we stay in that process, they realize, oh yeah, this. But usually, sometimes people minimize those things that went right, the things that they did well, and just jump into the long list of all the things they perceive they did wrong.

Yeah.

And that becomes the thing they become obsessed with. Right. I need to fix all these things for the next call.

Yes.

Maybe sometimes we just need to do more of the things we did right.

Yes.

Or there was something you did right in a previous call you didn't do right in this call.

Yeah.

So let's pair it with these four. These three now. Yeah.

That's really fascinating. I love that. I know that for myself, when it's. Whether it's sales call or anything, even if I'm trying to get better at a game or something like chess or magic the gathering, I will. So back in the day when I was learning therapy or other coaching other things, and I would have insecurity come up afterwards, I would focus, okay, what are the three things that I did? Well, I'd force myself to focus because otherwise it was be so negatively skewed. I found now with a lot of this stuff, my self esteem is pretty stable. So it's like, yeah, I'm gonna do great things on calls all the time and then I'm also gonna miss things. And for me, what I do is my mind really wants to. To zone in. It's like there's a moment where there is something that I didn't. It stumped me and I'm like, yeah, damn. What, what do you do with that? I didn't Just literally didn't know. It's kind of in the moment and it's like a move in, in a sport, you just like, I don't know how to do that move yet. And then of course, you know, there's. With a sales conversation, there's what you do in the moment, but there's also maybe what you did before that moment. Right. That led to that moment. So. But I'm, I, I get fascinated with like, what's the things that I'm not seeing. And I'm amazed I've gotten some sales coaching. And it's like, yeah, that's exactly what was happening. And I didn't even see it until it was illuminated. And so I think that's a fast. And that's probably what, you know, the. What could I have done better? And this is the power. This is the. This is a pitch for coaching, by the way, is because when we're looking back at our conversation and saying, what are two things that I have done better? You are operating within your own skill level, which is still valuable to do because you can pinpoint things. Absolutely. When you're reviewing it. And there are things that you will not see. You will just not know it. And so the growth is going to be much more slow or incremental versus if someone's like, oh, yeah, here's one of the things you didn't see you could do next time, you're like, whoa. So to that end, okay, I'll ask one more question, then we'll zoom out. What are some of the things that you see that people in these calls, like, they don't even know that they're missing it or that you're highlighting a lot for people as they're growing in sales?

Yeah. One of the things is a lot of people have a commitment to the script, and they're just there to recite the next question and they're not listening to the answers because there's so much. There's so much there in the answers. And many times people detach a sales conversation from a regular conversation with their friends or with their boss, because in those most times, in those situations, you're listening to what the person is saying, so you can respond in an appropriate way and get more clarity and get more depth. But sometimes I find a lot of my clients are just waiting to ask the next question, and they miss those opportunities to really get depth and go beyond that, go beyond the surface. That is one of the first things I always notice and point out. Another thing. Even before the sales calls, a lot of people are obsessed with overcoming objections. I have a long list. Tell me how to overcome all these objections. I'm like. I laugh because I'm like, hey, which one have you had so far? Oh, no, no, no. But I'm only ready for all of them. And I. I believe if that's what you're practicing on, but that's what you're focusing on, that's what you're gonna get. Right. What I Find works best is just go through the conversation. When you do reach an objection, there's a simple framework I, I teach. And just asking questions around the objection, just, hey, interesting. Tell me more about that to get more clarity around it. But as you get objections, that's the one little thing you can now learn to perfect the next time around. Okay, hey. Okay. I could have said this this way. So instead of learning how to overcome 10 objections before you ever got on a sales call, have a simple framework of when you hear someone say no or have an objection to a process, they'll get curious. Hey, tell me more about that. And then when you get off, you can work on what else could I have said in that situation? That's the other part about it. The other thing. When it comes to the money, people. People will have a great call. But when it comes to making the offer and sharing how much the. The. The investment is, everything changes. I, I have a process where I point out the energy level. In the conversations I just showed a client of mine just recently, you were buzz and everything was green. Great. But as soon as they transitioned to the sales combo to the investment, you went from about nine out of a ten with energy all the way down to a six.

Yeah.

And she's like, oh, I noticed it. And you can. And I. As you're reviewing the call together, you can see her facial expression change, her whole body language change. It became like, oh, man. I guess what, it took the wind out of the other persons too. Because at that point of conversation, they're buying your belief. They're buying your transfer energy. They're buying your conviction also.

Yeah.

So if you're not certain, they become even less certain about is this the right thing? So just be mindful about that. The money conversation, sharing the offer, something I did multiple times when I was getting better at this is learning how to say the number right? Is.

Yeah.

Then if you're saying the number for the first time on a sales call, it's gonna be weird to be awkward, especially if it's a big number. If it's a number you've never asked for before. So I would walk around the house just repeating what the investment is. And my. What I recite to myself, the investment is. And I'll say the number the investment is. I'll be in front of the mirror. The investment is. Because I wanted to see if I'm changing my facial expression, because that's one of the big obstacles I had is like, why would people pay this much for this thing? That's another story for me now I'll start for another day. I'll share that. For me, that changed for me after I started investing at the level that I was selling. Right. I started out selling programs that were 15 to $50,000. And at that point, I didn't invest that much in myself before. But as I started investing myself and around that level, because the program I invested in was $10,000 and I felt, okay, I can only sell up to the level I invested in, then I feel more authentic, I feel more congruent.

Yes.

And then I had a lot more certainty around it. So that's just another tip there. If you're, if you're trying to sell a program for $20,000 or trying to sell a product for $20,000 and you have an internal energy, hey, I would never buy that for $20,000. Guess what? When you get to that part of the conversation, your energy is going to go all the way down and they're going to feel it. So that's that second thing you see, you know, the, the third thing that people just want to focus on figuring out how to overcome objections even before they have or experience the objections. The second is reciting the questions and not being in a space to listen and go beyond the answers. And the third is a lot of times the energy change around speaking about the investment. Yeah. And there's a lot of fear. That fear comes up when the investment part of the conversation comes up.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Wow, man, that flew by. There's. We're just scratching the surface here, so thank you so much for sharing that. And if people are curious, let's say someone has their own business or wants their own business and they know that selling is important, how could someone learn more from you? Or if someone wanted to ask you questions or maybe get some feedback on their calls or coach with you, how could people find you?

Awesome. The best place is calling yearwood.com call in with one l c o l I n yearwood.com and there you can connect with me directly on my socials or my email list. And I run a thing called the sales coaching gym. And I believe sales is a muscle you build. And you can come in there and be practiced and ask questions and give feedback and help you build your certainty around who you are and how you show up in the selling conversations.

Oh, cool. Yeah, that's great. And we'll. If you're listening to this on, you know, Apple podcasts or Spotify or whatever, just go. You could go directly to Colin's site or go to shrinkfortheshiguy.com under this episode, we'll have a link to his site as well. So if you don't remember or you know, we can't type it in properly, Yearwood is the year, like year EA year would. So should be pretty straightforward. But I'll have a link down below as well. And yes, man, what, what a. What a. What a gem. And thank you so much for, for making this thing that can be misaligned or scary or wrong, quote, unquote wrong. It's really accessible because I know probably just like you, my life has been profoundly enhanced because people have sold things to me and I've taken the leap that was scary to buy, to invest, especially in myself. And I wouldn't have done it hadn't someone not helped me with oh, one last thought. We talk about objections, right? One, one word that I like to use for those. Because sometimes objection can seem like, okay, we got to overcome their. Their thing. They're concerns. Person's got a concern, they are there. There's a question, a concern or a fee or something's not quite a little like, oh, wait a minute, I got a concern here. I don't understand yet, or I'm scared or something. And if I say, oh, well, what are their concerns? Right? Whereas if objections like, oh, I gotta figure out their objections and handle them. Whereas, like, well, yeah, I want to know your concerns so then we can see if there's a way to solve them. And I love solving concerns versus overcoming objections. Helps me feel way more collaborative. And because someone did that with me, my life has really benefited. And I know you're helping many people give that gift to others. So thank you for what you do, for showing up, for being the man that you are, and absolutely a treat to have here today on the show.

Thanks for having me. This is. This has been fun. I enjoyed it. Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let.

Them know and and send them a.

Link to shrinkfortheshyguy.com for free vlogs, ebooks and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com.