How To Actually Like Talking With People

Welcome to Shrink for the Shy Guy. The show to help you break free from social anxiety, people pleasing and self doubt so you can speak up, connect and be 100% you. I'm Dr. Aziz, sharing tools that have transformed my life and thousands of others. Let's all liberate ourselves together. Hey, welcome to today's episode of the show. Today I'm excited to be with you, to be talking with you. See the title of this episode. You know that that's hilarious. No, I'm excited to be with you here. Right? And maybe it's a one way conversation in that I'm saying stuff I don't get to hear you talk back. However, I know that you're, you're responding in your head and you're having thoughts, feelings, reflections about this and what I'm sharing. And that's beneficial, right? I can't imagine you would be listening to this if it weren't beneficial, if you didn't get something from it. And it's very relevant. I'm not just talking about how great I am and this show is, but I'm talking about the purpose of talking, of conversations, of connecting and that's what this episode is all about. Because one of the most common things that I hear when it comes to building social confidence and maybe what we're struggling with, which might be a form of shyness, social anxiety, not liking talking to people, not wanting to go to the things or the parties or the networking event or whatever is you can't see right now. But I'm kind of grimacing a little bit and it's like I don't like it, I don't want to talk to people, I don't enjoy it and do I have to? And then it's a struggle and then I don't really want to, but I guess I have to, but I don't like it. And then if you take it one step further, we build a whole identity around that. I'm not the kind of person who goes to those kinds of events. That's not my scene. I don't like that, so on and so forth. And the result is a lonelier life, more isolation, less connection, less friendships, less opportunities, less growth, less all kinds of things in our lives. So I'm excited to dive into this episode with you. I'm also not here to tell you who you're supposed to go out, talk to, how social you're supposed to be. You know, I'm not your mom and maybe your mom had opinions about that, maybe not. I don't know, but. So that's not where this is coming from. But what I want to do is call out some of the patterns and the avoidance strategies that I see, keep people stuck. And also just some facts of life that I'll share that you can then decide how to navigate. And the ultimate result, I think, and this is what's worked for me because, trust me, that resistance, that avoidance, that aversion to going to places and talking to people, I had all of that. And I'll share some stories in just a minute about what I used to believe, what I used to tell myself. And I'll be honest, like, I am not. I wouldn't describe myself as an extrovert. I would describe myself as more introverted. As in, I can go chunks of time without seeing people or be very nourished by just one or two, you know, deeper connections, conversations that are happening in my life at a certain given time. And I don't need to go out and meet tons of people and go to the next party scene and that sort of thing. And at the same time, if you drop me into a situation or a room or a group, I can freely interact with whoever I want, or when the moment calls for me to go be with the group or lead a group or interact, I will do it. And if there's any resistance or discomfort with it, it's very minor and I can just step right through it. And so that might be a goal for you as well, not to become this super outgoing person where you talk to everybody and you're the mayor of the town, but not living in fear and a downsized, smaller version of you and claiming that this is my identity, this is just who I am, when really maybe it's not who you are. Maybe that's a comfortable identity that keeps you safe and avoiding the things that maybe are uncomfortable in your life. So let's see what's true for you. And if you love what you're hearing in this episode and you want to feel more free to talk to anybody, we have just a couple days left, depending on when you're listening to this, for the early bird for my upcoming a live virtual workshop called Supremely Confident conversation master. It's October 10th through 12th, and I would love to spend those three days with you really going in depth together in practice, not just talking about it, not just more information, but actual learning, doing and getting something deeper. Because there's intellectual understanding and then there's really getting or knowing something in your experience. And that is the goal that I believe only Happens through practice together in groups, and not just learning more intellectually. So if you're drawn to that, I would love to spend those days with you. And you can find out all about the workshop and get your seat at drazziz.com,-r-a z I z.com or in the description below this episode, you can get a link to that page as well. And this is part of what we'll be addressing there as well, is the resistance to it. Because here's the thing you might tell yourself, oh, I'm not very good at talking to people, or I don't know what to say, but I would challenge that. And I would say most people I talk to, if we were to give you. I'm amused at this idea. But let's say you were given a multiple choice test where you. I don't know if back in my day when we would take these standardized tests, and maybe it's still that way. I don't know if everything's done on computers these days, but you'd fill in these bubble sheets where, let's say it's A through D or the ABCD or the. The answers for each question. And there'd be, you know, row one is number one. A, B, C, D. And there's a circle for each letter, and you get to fill it in. So you fill in A, and then the next one you might fill in D. And you fill it in with a pencil, and you make sure you fill the circle in fully and don't go over and it's dark enough. Right. If you took these tests as a kid, then. Then, you know, but imagine there was a test. It was a social competence test. And it said, okay, you're at a networking event, and you get there, and you walk into the room, you know, what do you do first? Option A, don't enter the room and hide in the bathroom. Option B, cling to the wall and look at your cell phone and don't make eye contact with anybody. C, walk over to somebody and say, how come everyone here is so cliquish and doesn't want to talk to me? Or D, walk up to somebody and say, hi, my name's Aziz. What brings you here? Okay. All right. So you're taking the test. Which one do you think it is? Right? Right. It's D. It's like what? I thought it was the bathroom option. What? This. This test is hard, man. I gotta study, right? You know, it. It kind of sounds stupid when I say it, right? But, uh, it's because we do actually know, you know, quite a bit. And we could drill down into all sorts of things. I gave that one kind of. That's like the initial obvious thing, right? But even in the conversation, what do you say next? And how do you draw someone out? And how do you ask questions when you're calm, when you're using your intellect, when you're just thinking about it, you're not in the situation. You know a lot about how to do this. We generally know what's more effective. There could be a few things you could learn for sure. But the issue is not abstract social dynamic theory of how to interact with people. Right. The issue is that stuff happens inside of me that makes me not do the effective things and either be scared, like I want to do the effective thing, but I'm scared, or something else happens. And that's what this episode is all about. Because if you were to say, look, I'm sure there's effective things. I bet I probably know them. Or I could learn them relatively swiftly. Which you can. Which I can teach you over the weekend workshop. But. And maybe in other episodes of this show. So you learn some of those things and say, okay, great, but it's hard to do, man. I'm scared. That might seem, I don't know, vulnerable, or maybe you judge that or that's weak or something. That's actually an incredibly powerful place to be. That's like you're on the cusp of radical transformation. There's. Because there's so much truth in that statement. A harder place to be, a place that's further from liberation is when we. And this, trust me, I lived here for many years, is we say things like, I don't really like parties. I don't like that kind of environment. Ugh, Networking events are terrible. I hate small talk. Ugh. Everyone there is superficial. Oh, God, it's gonna be so boring. Oh, I don't want to go. It's gonna be terrible. Oh, I hate that kind of event. It's so hard to connect with people there. Everyone there is so standoffish and cl. Right. And the reason any of that sound familiar, by the way? Well, the reason that that's further from social connection and freedom is because my fear is being masked by a resistance, an aversion, an irritation, a dislike. That's basically saying, it's not that I'm scared, it's that that environment. It's not me, it's them. That environment sucks. Okay? Those people are insert judgment here. And therefore, I don't need to go. And I'm not telling you that you should go to the networking event. I don't know. Maybe it does suck. Maybe everyone there is all judgmental. I will tell you, though, that for the most part, we are often especially environments like a networking event, where you're not just talking about a date with one person. Right. There's a lot of different humans there, and sometimes we blob everybody into one thing. They think they are like this. How many people are there? A hundred. Okay. That's a lot of they's. That's a lot of humans. Each one's probably quite different than the other. So maybe some people are gonna be not open to you. The fact that a hundred of them won't be. Now we know we're in a story about them that's not about truth. It's about getting a sense of certainty. Because the truth is I feel uncertain when I go into a social situation. I feel insecure. I feel unsure of myself. And it feels vulnerable to walk up to somebody and say, hey, I'm Aziz. What brings you here? And it feels especially vulnerable because I'm running another pattern, a protection pattern, where I imagine they're going to say, aziz, why are you even. Who cares? I don't care who you are. I don't have time for you. And they're going to move on to somebody else. And so now it's especially scary to go approach somebody because I'm imagining it's going to go bad. And then I'm going to use a way to try to get a sense of security, solidity, certainty in myself by saying, well, that's stupid anyway, and I'm better than that. I don't want to go there. Can you see that pattern? And again, there's nothing bad about this or wrong or you're supposed to. It's just what's effective. And so when someone had and that, you can take that pretty far. I sure did. I guess you could take it to a level where I would say misanthropic would be the word. You know this word? This is definitely a standardized test word. It's. You generally just don't like humans. And that's. I'd say where I was. And that's not true at all. I mean, now when I look at myself, I love people and humans and care for them and am drawn to them and build relationships with them. But that time, my life, it was pretty caustic inside of me. Harsh, negative, critical, distant. Not just of others, but of myself, too. And that's One of the costs of living in this. Not only is it not effective in terms of getting ourselves to the places where we meet people and connecting with them, it's also ineffective, perhaps for our sense of, well, being, love, purpose, meaning, connection, happiness, joy, all the things that come from connecting with others and the ability to easily connect with others. Now, I know as you're listening to this, you might say, yeah, well, that sounds maybe a little bit of fear in there. But Aziz, I really just don't like those environments. Okay? I mean, and I get it, I get it. There's some, you know, different strokes for different folks. Some people are going to want to go to the heavy metal concert and some people are going to want to go to the opera. Right? There's just different preferences in people. I sure, and I'm not telling you got to go make friends at the heavy metal concert, but if your scene is nothing and nowhere, then I would say that that's probably a little unlikely. Right? It's probably a defended stance. We're just going to go out on a limb and claim that. And obviously each person's case is unique, but for the most part, you're probably shut down in some way. If that's how we're seeing it now, it gets a little murkier in this day and age because people could say, well, I'm not alone, Aziz, I'm online. I mean, I meet and hang out with people online all the time and there are some little niches of that. Maybe you play a lot of video games and you got your gaming friends that you've never met face to face and you guys talk on as you play games and stuff, so, you know, I don't want to. Or you have your D and D group that you hang out with virtually, they're in different cities, but usually that's done on Zoom, where you actually see the people and there's more real time relating. So there are some pockets for sure online. I don't want to dismiss all that. However, you know, scrolling social media and putting a comment on something is not human interaction of any real depth. Right. And so we need to be around other humans in. In human form at this point. I don't know, Maybe in another 10 years we'll be sort of dematerialized in the Oasis and our robots will be talking to each other as an initial barrier. But for now, the human animal, human spirit needs human connection. And so to tell myself, oh, I just don't like all that is a disservice, because deep down the Truth is, I'm uncomfortable in that environment, and I'm afraid or I feel insecure or unsure of myself. And the truth will set you free, man. Because when you name that, well, that's an act of courage. And then you can learn how to overcome that and say, well, geez, why am I not comfortable in these environments? And if the answer is, well, because they. I would dig a little deeper. Well, what do you mean? Well, maybe they are judgmental. Okay, well, first of all, again, who's the they? How many of them? Are they all that way? Because, look, if someone is. What would I do if I was in a group? You drop me down to a room of 100 people, a networking event or something, and they said, hey, you know, go meet people. The first thing I would do is I would let go of needing to, you know, close the deal, get some business. And this networking event, like, oh, God, oh, God, that's going to be Agenda City. Weird manipulations going on. It's like, no, I'm just here to connect with some people and see who I resonate with and maybe see how I can contribute to people. Right? So that would be my energy going into it. And the next thing I would do. And basically a lot of what I'm describing here is the opposite of what I would have done with those stories in the past. So stories in the past, I would have chose option A, hide in the bathroom, probably not go at all. Now I would go, and when I first walked into the room, I would instantly move towards somebody that I did not know within three seconds of entering into the room. And this is a little principle that I learned where if you do that, you set a pattern for the evening. And the pattern is I jump in the pool versus I pace around the edge of the pool. So we have a cold plunge at our house that I got maybe three years ago. I'm going to level with you. A questionable investment. Questionable. I have mixed feelings about the investment and how much we use it. But I use it. I use it just like, couldn't we have just done cold showers? But anyway, we got this cold plunge thing now, and I got to maintain this thing. But anyway, there's some sweet moments with it, and my kids will get into it and stuff. So sometimes we'll go for a little family jog. That's a newer thing now that my son is doing cross country. So we do a little family jog. Very sweet. We got our dogs running with us, too. And then we get back home and the kids are like, oh, I'M gonna get in the cold plunge. And so when they were younger, they used to not get in at all. And they would watch me get in. And eventually my older son was like, I can get in. And so then he would get in and get right back out. And the younger one's like, well, I wanna do it too. And so he would. He's got to kind of climb up on this little step to get into it. And then he gets where he's like holding his body on either handrail, holding himself above it, you know, and he's like, okay, here we go, here we go. You probably know what's gonna happen, right? Nothing. He psychs himself out. He spends too much time pacing at the edge, and it's really, really hard. And then when it's my turn, so he'll kind of do that for a while and then he'll get down, he won't go in. And then it's my turn, I just get into it. And he's like, how do you do that, dad? How do you just get into it? And I say, well, son, when you're fearless and macho, like you're me, you know. No, I tell him, look, I have a voice in my head that when I get to the close, probably even before I get into this thing, if I know I'm going to go towards it, that says, no, I don't want to. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't like it. I don't want it. It's awful. I don't need it. It's bad. I'll do it later. I can take a cold shower later. It's bargaining right now. Is that a reflection of my actual values or what I think is going to benefit me or what I really. And Fear's primary guidance demand directive is to avoid the source of threat and in this case, the source of discomfort. Because the cold plunge is a known discomfort. It's not like, well, I'm going to talk to this person. Maybe it's going to go really well and maybe it's not going to go well. Cold plunge is like, it's going to feel really cold and uncomfortable. Right. Every time. 100% reliability. Never had it not be cold and uncomfortable. So then the brain is especially prepared. It's like, oh, this is awful. The only way out then is just to not do it. And so the way to do it is one I know I link it to a higher purpose, higher value, and there's A couple. One is just, I know I'm going to feel better afterwards. I always do. And I know another thing I've linked it to is courage. That I know that this is a form of training, that if I can get myself to do this, that benefits me in life because it gets me to jump over the hump in anything. There's a hump. Before recording this podcast episode, right? I'm sitting at my desk, it's quiet, I'm not interacting. I don't. Maybe I'm doing less cognitive labor, I'm not thinking as hard. And I say, we gotta record this episode, right? But here's the saying. I was telling my son about the cold plunge, and I think this is true for social events as well. And it goes like this. It's just four words. Terrible before, awesome after, terrible before, awesome after. And that's how the cold. Now the good thing about the cold plunge is it's 100% certain, right? It's always terrible before and it's always awesome after. Now, when it comes to social events, maybe it's not terrible. Maybe it goes really well, right? Maybe a great experience. Maybe you, maybe it's not great afterwards. Maybe you're beating yourself up afterwards. That's something else. You got to come to the weekend. We can help. Just stop that replay self attack pattern after. That's actually part of social anxiety. People don't realize that. They think it's before endearing, but after is where it makes its biggest strike to try to prevent you from doing anything that ever again. So that's a whole other rabbit hole we can go down sometime in the future. But for now, it's about guiding yourself through that. And so this is what I told my son. I said, you know, it's terrible before, awesome after. But here's what I do. I have this voice in my head that says, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to. And it gets louder the closer I get to it. And what I do is I don't fight that voice. I don't try to argue with it. I don't try to turn it off. I just have another voice that I gently add in there that says, I know, I know. Yeah, it's. Yeah, I know, I know. And as I'm doing that gentle, reassuring voice, and he loves dogs and puppies, so I'm just like, I'm talking to a puppy that's scared. I'm like, it's okay. I know, I know. But as we're doing that we're also walking towards the cold plunge and we're going right into it. Because if I say, oh, I know, I know, you're scared, you're scared. And then I stop, well, it's winning, right? Because it's getting me to, if not totally run away, it's getting me to halt. And if it can get me to halt long enough, it might stop me from getting in. And this, we think we're talking about a cold plunge here. We're talking about so much more, aren't we? And so, yeah, these were talking about conversations and getting to those events and places and people, right? And dates and all those other things. And more and more we're talking about your life, your whole life. Because that I don't want to get in. I don't want to. It's almost like I don't want to live the story. I'm just going to wait this one out. Which is tragic because then people treat their life like it's Netflix and they're just watching it go by and it's relieving in the moment. But man, the regret starts to pile up. I don't know how old you are, but I know that I talk to people. And the older my clients are, assuming this is the first time, they're really breaking free of these patterns. One hallmark feature that's different between, say a 20 year old and a 40 year old and a 60 year old, they might have the same level of social anxiety, sometimes even more actually, because people that are 40 or 60 have let the pattern run even longer. And so it becomes more part of their identity and they live more of their life this way. And they think, well, geez, if I live 30 years this way, 40 years this way, there's no way it could be different. Right? Someone who's 22 has a very more malleable sense of possibility. But regardless, most people I'm working with, 30s, 40s, 50s, they still could make radical change. But one thing they have to work through is regret. Because what they cannot change is that 20 years, 30 years, 40 years of life have been less lived. Now if you hear that and you're like, oh crap, that's depressing. Well, better 20 years not fully lived, and then the remainder, 100% right, right. When's the best time to plant a tree? 20 years ago. When's the second best time? Right now. And I have that. In my own personal journey with chronic pain, there was 20 years of my life where my physical athletic power and my body was put on. I from age 15 to 35, chronic pain medications, broken identity, can't do sports, fear in my body, pain in my body. And Now I'm. It's 40. I'm 42. It's been seven years. And I've been more athletic, more joyfully athletic in the last seven years than maybe many people are in their entire lives. Not because I'm like, oh, I'm so much better and more athletic. It's like I am like a, you know, like a prisoner who is freed. I'm like, let's go get the juice of life, right? And that's how I felt in my 20s as it broke out of social anxiety. And I just. I was the guy who was terrified to do anything. And then I was like, yes, yes, let's go to that thing. Let's go to that party. Let's go talk to that person. Let's see what happens. Yes, yes, yes. And it's awesome. It's extraordinary adventure. And that's what I want for you. So the invitation here, let's turn this into your action step. Time for action. Action, action. The invitation is for you to be honest with yourself and question those stories of, I don't want this. I don't need this. It's not my place. I don't like it. And fine, if a certain environment is not your scene, great, okay, then what else is? Right? Because then you get. You get to see what's really true, which is, like, nowhere. Then, you know, listen, early in this episode, right, that. That's a. That's where we're selling ourselves something false there. So, you know, what is it? Where do I want to go? Why is it important to me? Linking it to what you value and then seeing if you can guide yourself into it, much like I was encouraging my son to guide himself into the cold plunge. And if that doesn't work, then shame yourself heavily, because that's what I do to my son. I say, what kind of. You're not my son. If you're too weak to get in that cold plunge. That's the secret, right? You know, compassionate guidance, loving coaching. And then, you know, the stick. I'm kidding. Hopefully. No, I'm kidding. The stick never works. You can't beat yourself into confidence. Can't beat yourself into courage. So thanks for being with me today again. If you're feeling inspired and you want to take this further, this is the only event I'm doing for the rest of this year. And so it'll be a long time, maybe six more months before there's another opportunity to come together to a workshop with me virtually. So now is the time. Early bird tickets make it even easier, so go check it out@drazeez.com and I would love to spend those three days with you until we speak again. May have the courage to be who you are and to know on a deep level that you're awesome. I'll talk to you soon.

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