How To Become Fearless with Steve Chandler

Coming to you from the center for Social Confidence in Portland, Oregon. Welcome to Shrink for the shy guy helping men everywhere go from social anxiety to social domination with your host, Dr. Aziz.

Hey, welcome to today's episode of the show. Are you pumped? Hopefully you're pumped. Hopefully you're excited about listening to this on a Wednesday morning or wherever you're listening to this. And whenever you're listening to this, I'm excited to be with you. And whether this is the first time that you're listening to this show or you've been with us for all whatever many episodes, 50 plus that we've done, I am excited to be with you. I get more and more excited as this show goes on because it just keeps getting better. I love interacting with you. Go to facebook.com shrinkforthyguy to like that page and join in. Also, go to shrinkforthshyguy.com to get all the show notes, links that we talk about in the show, any videos that I reference. So everything's posted there. And you can also contact me through there to ask me your questions and I can answer them in upcoming episodes. Today we're going to be picking back up with the second half of my interview with Steve Chandler. One of the world's premier coaches has been doing it for decades and just really understands how to help people radically move forward in their lives, get out of their own way, move forward faster. And today in the interview, we're diving into this idea of getting outside your comfort zone, which is something you're probably familiar with if you've listened to any of these shows or come across my work online or elsewhere. But there's a distinction that Steve offers today that was really profound for me, which he calls one inch outside your comfort zone. And I think when you learn this, a, you're gonna feel a lot of relief, and then B, you're gonna feel a lot of hopefulness and be inspired about what's possible for you. One step at a time. So without further ado, let's jump back into that guest expert interview with Steve Chandler, one of the world's top coaches, and grab a sheet of paper, get ready to take some notes, and prepare to learn some powerful stuff to help you get to the next level in your life. Here we go.

Expert interview.

But it's so safe in that cage. It's so safe. What would you say to someone who maybe not consciously but sort of unconsciously, there is that desire to remain safe in the moment? I've been fascinated by this as I've been Studying it more and more in myself and others. And I've been calling it the Safety Police, where there's this whole variety of voices that we'll have, whether it's telling us that something really bad is going to happen out there or that sort of dismisses us as sort of cynical mockery of our desire to do something different. Or just the straight up kind of the policeman that sort of just beats you down, tells you that you suck and you're not good enough. So it's all these elaborate ways that we stay in that little safe zone. And then. So courage, as we're describing it, is just the action. It's not a state, it's not who you are, it's just the action you can take, the act of courage. And so how does someone. There's that moment, there's that precipice where they want to take the act of courage, and then there's these voice, oh, you can't do that, you suck. And all that stuff's getting built up inside of them. How do they just take the plunge? How would you guide someone through that?

Well, just little time, just such a small step. It doesn't take a great amount of courage. So that's how to do it. And keep increasing that so you're not scaring yourself to death and you're not doing it because you're so afraid. The state I really want is not courage so much as fearlessness. So if somebody says, do you have the courage to eat a potato chip? I say, well, no, it doesn't take. I don't have to call on courage to eat a potato chip. Just eat a potato chip. I am fearless doing that because I don't feel a threat. Now, maybe I should say a grape because some people would. The nutrition police would tell you that there might be a threat to eating a potato chip. But the. So what I really want is fearlessness more than profound repeated acts of courage. I want a fearless state. So something that used to take a little bit of courage, if I do it enough times, no longer does. So it took courage, let's say, to get in the water when I was learning to swim or jump into the deep end. But it no longer does. I look forward to it. I jumping in the deep end on a hot day. I'm in a fearless state. Take a book from the shelf. How much courage does that take? Nothing. You're fearless when you do it. So fearlessness has nothing to do with courage. It's just this wonderful state of this is an I do this In a very naturally feeling way. Feels natural. So, for example, right now, for me talking to a group, I gave a talk to 2,000 people in an arts center. And it didn't take courage to walk out on the stage. But in the past, it did. But now I've done it so many times. I've tested the universe to realize there's no threat to me in doing this. And because there's no threat, there's no call for courage. And it's just fearless that I feel a little excitement. I feel butterflies in my tummy, but they're not fear. They are excitement, excited butterflies. Same kind of things I feel when Jennifer Lopez knocks at my front door.

Is that a common occurrence?

No, it doesn't happen that often, but.

I love that what you're saying is that it takes courage until we do it enough to where it doesn't. And it's just that massive repetition and that conditioning. And I love that, too. I often encourage people that I'm working with. It's like, well, if I go do blank, whatever it is, some social thing, then bad stuff's gonna happen. They're gonna reject me, prediction after prediction, and it's like, well, let's just go test it out and see. And then when they do, they find that you're right. There is no real threat. Even a negative outcome of a person saying no to them becomes something that they can handle and no longer becomes this painfully tragic event. So I think that repetition is such a important piece of that fearless state.

Absolutely true. I agree. And I don't even use the word massive anymore, although you're accurate. I use the word gentle repetition because sometimes with a client, when you say massive repetition, they think, oh, I'm going to have to do this for 10 years or I'm going to have to do this 100 times a day. And then that's intimidating. The repetition becomes. So I want to take all the intimidation out of anything I want to do. I want to eliminate it any way I can because I really want to be doing this thing. That's really my objective. I had to do a sing in a concert for charity, and I don't sing for a living, and it's not my profession. I've done it years ago in the past in bars, But I would wait until people were drunk enough in the bar for me to step up to the microphone and sing. But my rehearsal was just general repetition. My rehearsal, I'd sing in front of a few small groups of people as I was rehearsing for this large concert. And by the time I got to the concert, it was really easy. There wasn't fear at all because I snuck up on it. I was willing to do tiny versions of it, small, gentle repetition, micro versions. If you have a talk to give, same thing if you're not used to speaking. The more you rehearse the talk, the less afraid you are in front of the room.

Absolutely. And that's something that I. If it's a bigger talk, I still do a lot of repetition because I think I'm in the phase you're describing where I've done it a lot and it still takes courage. It's like a mixture of excitement and fear. It no longer stops me. It's sort of like a curtain where you can just push right through it. But I do realize that, oh, I haven't done enough repetition for it to be totally fearless. But I like that idea of gentle repetition. It's got such a. As you said, it takes all the pressure, all the fear, all the charge out of it.

Yes.

Sounds like I'm stepping into.

And it gives you that sense. Anybody can do that. You don't have to be a certain courageous person to do that. You can be a fearful person and do some gentle repetition of something that's only an inch outside your comfort zone.

And so what about this? I'm curious because sometimes I've seen people, and I used to do this a lot in my own head where I. I would do something, I would take an act of courage, take a small step, and for the most part, it would probably, objectively, if you could observe it from the outside, have gone well. And yet there is that tendency in people to kind of focus on how it didn't go as well as they wanted. And, oh, those people in the back of the room weren't as interested in my talk. And there's this tendency to kind of snatch victory from the. Or snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and really sort of soil the whole thing. What are your thoughts on how to manage that pattern? We're going to pause for just one quick moment right now, take a break and jump back into the interview with Steve right after this.

Have you ever been stuck in limbo? You know, that awkward situation where there are several groups of people talking around you and you aren't part of any of them. You want to jump in, but you're not sure how to do it or what to say, so you slink into the corner, grab a drink at the bar and pretend to look busy on your cell phone. Tired of this less than optimal strategy. Get yourself a copy of the confidence code today and discover how to dominate in any group situation. Casually join into existing groups and even enjoy being the center of attention. Go to YourConfidenceCode.com now to get started.

Well, one thing I want to start observing with my clients and myself is that these disappointments, these self judgments, these failures are human things that happen to absolutely everybody. And it's not about me. So if I give a talk that falls flat or people get bored, or somebody leaves the room while I'm talking, that happens to everybody. That's a human experience. That's humanity itself experiencing itself. It is not me. It's not just like this is happening. I'm the target of this situation. It's not true. And the more I see that this is a universal occurrence, the more I can be okay with it and say, how would I like to make it better? What kind of talk would I give that nobody would leave? And so it's good feedback to me. It's just something I can build on, something I can learn from. And I like to use the phrase game film, that when you have something that goes wrong, let's say you make a proposal to somebody, a sales proposal, and they say no, and you start to interpret it as rejection or judgment of you and all that. I want to change the context of what just happened and say, what's good about this? What if I viewed it as a learning experience? What can I learn from this? How can I build on what occurred? If I could roll back time, go on a time machine, would I have done this any differently? And what do I need to improve on here? And failures give you wonderful feedback. When a team, the ladies softball team at the university watches game film of the last game they played and they see that certain situations they were out of position. In certain situations, this was happening. The pitcher sees that she was telegraphing when she was going to throw a fastball. And this is wonderful because, wow. I see the corrections I need to make, I see the adjustments I need to make. And when we win big or when people approve of us, we feel just euphoria. And we celebrate and we get higher than a kite. And then we begin to doubt whether it's really real or whether it's going to last. So it's not as useful to us to have a success. So I want to start looking for the gold, looking for the real value. When he started Microsoft, Bill Gates used to say, we built our company on customer complaints, that we took every complaint really, really Seriously. And we studied it, we had meetings about it, and we adjusted what, what we were creating as a product based on these complaints, based on people who hated us or who thought our product was terrible. We used that to create a great company. Now he's got $50 billion in personal wealth. You and I could live on half of that.

It certainly lasts me at least 20 years to have 25 billion. But what I love about that is that again, what you're describing, when we have an experience and it doesn't go the way we want it to and we label it as bad or even worse, I label myself as bad. Then again, it fixes it and it makes it some permanent deficit rather than the way you're talking about it is. It brings it back into the realm of, oh, what actions did I take? What actions could I take next time? And then you have so much fun.

It's not about you. See, that's the thing. When I start labeling myself or making this be about me, that's when I get in trouble. That's when my self esteem goes down. That's when I take fewer actions. Now I take myself out of the game of life and I become a concept freak. And everything is conceptual.

I like that term, a concept freak. And so what I like is what I hear you're saying. It's a reoccurring theme in our conversation is that if there's something you want to do out there, just come up with a series of actions that would get you there, starting very small, and then proceed to take those actions.

Exactly.

I mean, it seems so simple and yet we have so many ways. In fact, I wanted to get your thoughts on this. I noticed sometimes I'll be working with someone and they'll have a big vision of something they want to do. I want to create this type of business, but I don't have the capital for it. And I don't know where I would get it and I don't know where the clientele would come from. Then they basically just stall out because it's like, well, maybe I'll wait a few years and then I'll be able to start. Let's say someone's got a big vision, they want to create this certain kind of company or invent something, but they need venture capital. It's this big far off dream. How to bring that into the realm of action now?

Yeah, and there's a solution to that. Go get the venture capital. Go get it. What do you need? What do you need to have this happen? What are you Doing that's keeping this from happening. And so. Oh, I would need venture capital. Great. Let's create an action plan for that. Let's go get some. See, people try to. They have a negative, imaginary future that's created out of all these disempowering thoughts about what's not possible. I could do that. I would need that. I don't have enough money to do this. I don't have this. Go get the money. I don't know who to ask. Make a list of who to ask. See, if somebody really, really wants to do something, they're doing it. They're not coming to you and giving you this big vision that they can't do. That's a person whose intention is to tell you a big vision of something they can't do. So it's like infantile, complaining about the universe. It's like, mommy, I want to. I want to be a cowboy, but I can't because we live in New York. It's. It's like, well, honey, someday maybe you can. Maybe someday move to Arizona. And it is act when you bring someone a big vision, and then you bring your complaints of how you can't execute that vision because you don't have the things you need. You're like a child. You want to be a child, and you want that person to comfort you. You don't want that vision to be reality.

Yeah. And then the interesting question is, I love that you say, what are you doing? That's getting in the way of that. And it really brings it back into the realm of choice, of being at a cause in life, rather than. And that's something that I've learned a lot from you about, and you teach really well, is that distinction between being an owner in your life versus sort of being a victim at the mercy of the world around you. And when it comes to this idea of general social confidence, being able to interact with people with confidence, take action in the world, what, Maybe share, just briefly, how someone could identify if they're being in more of that victim stance, and then how they can shift it to more of that owner being a cause in the world.

Well, for me, it took time. I worked with my coach, and he would call me out when I started selling myself victim stories and selling the world on my victim stories about how powerless I was, how I had lack of resources, how I didn't know the right people, how I didn't know how to do certain things. These are all victim stories, and they're designed to keep people out of the game. In the stands or on the sidelines or on the injury cart, going back into the locker room. And when. When you're ready to play, you're just going to play. You're going to get out there on the field and play when you're ready to. And so the first step in seeing that I can be playful and I can experiment and I can go out into the world and ask the world for what I want is to play with it, to dance with it and experiment with it and be willing to do that, and also be willing to get help to do that. Be willing to talk to people who've done it and then figure out and then do what they did. So it's moving into a more active role in my destiny instead of a passive role where I'm fascinated with my personality and who I am and what my limitations are.

Yeah. And there's something in one of your books I was reading, I think it's Reinvent Yourself, where you see someone doing something that you want to be able to do, and a really common thought, and I used to do this all the time in my head when I was really stuck in shyness, was you see someone doing something, being very confident, and you think, oh, man, look at them. I am so different than that. I can't do anything like that. And I love. In your book, you say, well, when you notice that stuff, just start saying to yourself, I can do that. Yes, I could do that. And then I love the idea of actually when I learned this, maybe the first mentor I had was sort of accidental. We ended up being in the same workplace environment with a lot of downtime, and he was maybe 15 years older than I was. And it was amazing how much you can learn from someone's experience if they're open and willing to share and you're willing to ask for that guidance and receive it. And then ever since then, I was hooked where I was like, wow, you can find someone who's done what you want to do and talk to them and then you can do it.

Yeah, absolutely true. Yeah. And I used to do that, too. I'd see people. I could never do that. Wow, look at that. Isn't that amazing? That's so unlike me. And that's not really what those people are here for. Those people are to show you what's possible. They're not to intimidate you and make you think you're. You're from a different species than they are. They're. They're here. They're here to show us what humans can do these people that we say, wow when we see. So I can do that, or at least my version of it or move closer to that. So I watch somebody sing on the voice and they do this amazing performance, and I think that inspires me. I want to learn that song. I want to sing that way instead of, oh, wow, look at the talent that guy's got. Oh, my gosh. I can't sing a lick myself. That's how most people do it. They compare themselves. They shake their heads. That's why none of us are artists anymore, because in class, there were a few kids who could really draw, and the teacher, oh, look. Look at Julie. She's such a good artist. And. Oh, Steve, good try. What is that, a dog? No, that's a table. Oh. And then I compare myself to Julie, and I say, I'm not a good artist. I can't draw. And somebody else stands up and sings. Oh, that's what good singing is, I guess. I'm not a singer. And all the things I thought I was get eliminated. When I compare myself to other people, Pretty soon, I'm nobody. I'm a loser. I don't look like a movie star. I don't sing like a rock star. I don't play football like a pro football player. I'm a loser. And that's the absolute opposite and wrong way to interact with these people who do inspiring things.

Yeah. It's so interesting. As you said, that gave me a flashback back to high school and one of my best friends, Chris, was very athletic, and he was an amazing artist. He'd do a lot of pencil art with graphite, and it was phenomenal. And I have distinct memories of, like, sitting there at home or in the shower, just thinking about people in my class and just going through the roster and comparing myself to each person and being like, I'm not as you know, Chris is better at drawing, and Adam's better at this, and this guy's got better clothes, and I'm not as good at anything as that person is at, say, drawing. And that was my conclusion. Well, I'm a loser. Okay, time to get out of the shower and go. Seize the day. But the thing is, as you were talking, I realized, do you know how many hours a day at that age, whatever, 15, 16 years old, Chris spent drawing? I mean, he would draw.

Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah. You don't know that he would draw throughout class.

He was constantly drawing in his notes. He would be drawing at home. I mean, he spent hours a day doing that, and it's like, I totally. That was invisible to me at that age. And now that sort of myth has been dispelled, the sort of the talent is overrated idea. And there's a lot of more recent books that show this, that it's just a matter of putting in that time.

Yep, it is.

That's exciting. So, one other question. I'm curious and we might have touched on it, but I want to make sure there's not any missing components. But let's say someone is listening and they're just like, yeah, I want to build lasting confidence in myself. I don't want to just have a moment of euphoria when everything goes my way, but I want to create a deep sense of confidence in myself. I want to look at the world and say, yes, okay, I can do those things. I'm going to create what I want. I want to be an owner in my life. What lasting? Any tip or suggestion that you have, it could be something you've already shared in our conversation or something different. But what would be a guidance for that person?

Well, the guidance would be to allow yourself to be inspired and allow yourself to be back in the mindset when you were younger and you had great curiosity about life and life was exciting and you loved life and everything was possible and come from that approach. And it's not that hard to get back there. Just allow yourself to relax and get back there and then do small experiments and find a good teacher, find a good coach, find a good. If you really want to have amazing, radical change and how you live life, how you see life, you'll have someone help you. It's just like if you want to learn how to play tennis and be a great tennis player, you're going to have coaches. If you want to have a great life, you're going to have a coach. And maybe you can't afford a coach like Aziz or me, but maybe you can read a book or watch some youtubes of some of the great coaches. Another way to get coached. I coached myself through books for a long time until I could afford real coaches. So that would be what I would tell people.

That's phenomenal advice, and I've been applying that similarly, starting with mentorship and a lot of reading. And then as I've been able to generate more income to then immediately reinvest that into the next level of coaching, because I've seen just how rapidly it can accelerate progress and sort of compressing something that you can learn a decade of someone's experience over a handful of conversations with them and then apply them.

That's right.

And it's pretty remarkable. And I feel like we've just only scratched the surface of what you can offer. But thank you so much for sharing your insights and what you've learn from your own experience, from your own failures. Oh, there's one last question I want to ask you if you have a moment. And I've been so curious about this and I want to see if I can relate it to this topic, which is I know it mentions in some the about section on your website that you studied language and you were in the military and you studied psychological warfare for a number of years.

And.

And I'm going to see if I can try to relate this to confidence. But what's one interesting. I think that whole area is so fascinating. But what's one interesting thing you learned about people or about confidence or just about that that's helped inform you in your life from some of those studies?

Yeah. Well, in psychological warfare, the main lesson I learned there is that the way we think and the language we use to think with and to communicate with has a profound effect on our whole biological system. It's the same thing that's been discovered in medicine and pharmaceuticals with placebo effect, that if a doctor tells you, I'm going to give you a pill and has a chance of really helping you with your breathing problems, and this is just a placebo, the very fact that the doctor used those words can affect your whole biological system. And it's been proven over and over. So if I start to turn, for example, if I have, if I have a problem and I convert it and I start to refer to it as a project instead of a problem, and I look at this and it's the debt repayment project I've got going on. It takes on a different nature, takes on a different context with me. And so it's easier to jump into it when I send somebody an action plan for being trained or coached. It's easier for me to send it and easier for them to get into it and want to do it than if I send them a proposal. Because a proposal suggests that I'm trying to get paid money by them. I am proposing this and if you fall for it or agree with it, you'll send me money. But if I send you an action plan, this is my action plan for you and your life and your people, they read it in a different way and all I've done is change the word. So that's the primary thing I learned in psychological warfare. Is that you could send words and messages to people that changed how they saw things, changed how they changed their whole belief systems around things. And that was the message. That was the lesson I learned there. So it became a big theme of mine in my earlier books was keep upgrading the language you use when you talk to yourself and others about what's going on. And it'll change the nature of what's going on.

Absolutely. From something as simple, from problem to project or problem to challenge. And it's amazing how that orients our whole attitude towards it, our body towards it, and even little subtle things like if someone says, I have social anxiety, I will kind of explore it and help them see that. Well, in that moment, you were doing social anxiety.

Yeah.

And just that subtle shift, in a word, all of a sudden, doors start to open up left and right.

Yeah. And I want. In that. That particular person, I want to say, well, all human beings have social anxiety. So what's your problem?

Yeah.

Well, mine is severe. Oh, okay, then let's see if I can help you.

Yeah, mine is more severe than everyone else's, and that therefore I'm significant. Yeah, but that's a whole other issue.

But social anxiety, it comes with being, with trying to socialize and fit in. Of course there's social anxiety. So let's not label it as some profound disorder. Let's work with it. Let's relax it. Let's stop demonizing it and making it a profound disorder. And let's work. Let's see it as an opportunity to relate to people in a more relaxed way.

Absolutely. I love that phrasing because that's really what it's about, is being able to relate to people in a more relaxed way, in a more open way, being more comfortable in who you are and.

Sharing that and remove the threat from the situation.

Yeah.

It is all in my mind.

Absolutely. And there's, you know, so many more different angles we could go down. But I'm going to wrap up, given our time for today. But thank you so much for joining us for the. For the interview and if people want to. I know you have a lot of ways that people can learn from you. What would be the best place for someone to start if they wanted to learn about your books or listen to some of your audios or learn about some of your trainings and speaking? Where could they do that?

Well, we've got lots of free audios, ebooks and things. I recommend they not spend any money on me, but go to the website and tell me you listen to the show with Aziz. And we will send you access to audios and ebooks that won't cost you anything.

Oh, fantastic. And what we'll do is I'll have a link to your website below the post of this podcast, so people can just click that and reach out to you. And thank you again so much for coming on, Steve.

You're quite welcome, Aziz, and thank you for the work you do in the world.

Appreciate that.

Bye. Bye.

That brings us to all the time that we have together. We need to wrap up, but before we go, you can't go anywhere without taking all this conceptual stuff and doing what with it. That's right, turning it into action, because that's where the transformation occurs. You don't want to be, as Steve said, a concept freak where you just listen to it and say, that makes a lot of sense. Those are good ideas. No, we want to turn those ideas into action because that's what's going to change your life. How you feel about yourself, what you're capable of, your confidence, the results you get, your finances, your career, your relationships. And everything only changes when we take that action. So that brings us to your action step.

Time for action.

Today's action step is simple, is to go one inch outside your comfort zone. One inch. What's one little. So don't look at the big thing. I gotta make 50 cold calls today, or I gotta storm into my office in a different way and talk to 50 people, or I gotta walk up to that person that I'm really attracted to and just, you know, make magic happen. No, that's too much. That's too scary. We get overwhelmed. We get discouraged. We stop, apply what Steve is sharing and just go one small inch. What would that be for you? Just think about that. It's one inch outside your comfort zone. A little thing. What would be 5% more confident for you today? Just 5%. Would you greet maybe a few people in your office as you walked in? Nothing big. Just a quick hi. Would you make eye contact with more people when you walk down the street? Would you have that conversation with someone that you've been avoiding having the conversation with again? If it's 100% outside your comfort zone, if it's too much, don't do it. Hold off on that. Just find that one inch. You know what it is as I'm talking? I'm pretty sure you do. And if you don't, keep thinking, keep digging. You'll find it. Don't let your mind say, well, I don't know nothing. I can't think of anything, so I guess I won't do it. Look, that's not going to help you change your life. If you really want to take these concepts, these words that you're hearing right now and convert it, transmute it into powerful life changing experience that's going to bring you more of what you want in your life. More joy, more confidence, more fulfillment, more income, more love. Whatever you want. That's only going to come from getting outside your comfort zone. And start by going just one inch. So I look forward to hearing how it goes. Please share go to facebook.com drinkforthshyguy Share your experiences. Love to hear about those and until we speak again, may you have the courage to be who you are and to know that you're awesome.

Thanks for listening to Shrink for the shy guy with Dr. Aziz. If you know anyone who can benefit from what you've just heard, please let them know and send them a link to shrinkforthshyguy.com for free blogs, ebooks and training videos related to overcoming shyness and increasing confidence, go to socialconfidencecenter.com.